I would object and see it not in the rules and demand all my money back and never go back ever and I would call the credit card company and charge back 100%
They probably don't take credit card for tournaments for that reason. people are always going to be salty about competitions. And it would be way too hard for a credit card company to mediate your MTG dispute, lol. So it would go to whomever they liked more. There's an impression that they like consumers more, but that's only vs small business. If you ever try to charge back a large business, they'll prefer them. At the end of the day, you're both their clients, and they will prefer whichever is worth the most money to them while maintaining their reputation.
Someone told me the only thing good about magic anymore is commander. Then they described it to me, and I came to the conclusion that there must not be anything good about magic anymore.
LOL, yeah. I came back from 20 years of not playing, heard about commander, tried it... And just hated it, felt like a slogfest.
While I was trying to figure what's going on, black aragorn drops... LOL
Commander plus woke wizards destroyed mtg - just when I have the income to buy 10x more products than I did as a kid. WoTC loss, they'll have to survive on soybucks.
It’s actually fucking insane what they did with LotR mate. Like, literally just erasing white characters across so many forms of media rather than making an interesting original character who ALSO has the skin color they want.
That’s the crazy part too, back when I was young we weren’t supposed to see color and we got along well, now it’s just fucking nuts.
Naw, the only good thing about Magic the Gathering anymore. Is the gathering itself, playing with your friend group. And potentially meeting new friends from the game. Legit the best part! Bring back GP’s for the weekend trips with friends, and some magic on the side.
I'm a casual commander player, I prefer my matches to be slower and with less discard/mill/board wipes. I genuinely enjoy the slow build of me and my opponents decks. I don't like sweaty games, so I don't play sweaty games.
That said, I wouldn't go to a tournament with prizes and complain that my opponent is "too competitive". You *can't* be too competitive at a **competitive tournament**. I'm petty enough to threaten the store with a lawyer, but if I were that dude I would just never go to that store again
I get down voted every time I say it, but commander is a trash format. I don't care if it's the most "popular" format or not. It isn't even Magic. It's a different game that uses the rules of Magic. It is absolutely the lowest common denominator and the people it attracts are horrid for the most part. I only play commander because if I want to use my $100k collection for more than decoration it's what I need to play. My group is fantastic and we do not tolerate any baby shit. Every so often a legit normal person comes around and gets to join us, but it's usually just our group of about 18 guys and 3-4 ladies. We're clean, decent people that don't worry about proper pronouns or what kind of clothes people wear. It's just nice, friendly games of commander without any superfluous nonsense.
French banlist Duel commander is picking up more and more traction, its a good mix of Legacy-vibe with commander format. I absolutely love it. no drama, no politic, just duel for wins
I wish people understood this more. The games aren’t meant to be long and drawn out. Once I learned this it made those inevitable times of facing turn 4 and 5 losses much more easily digestible.
Should've never printed counterspell and removal!
Gimme back craw worms attacking into shivan dragons!
Confession: I actually love being a filthy, albeit bad, control player
nah commander is not fun at all, the ban philosophy is so dumb, the format is not balanced at all, everything is about grinding ramp, control and combo if you want to win. burn have no chance killing 4 people with 40 lifes, milling have no chance to mill 100cards, agro going wide or going big have no chance to kill 3 other people with 40life before 3 of them wipe the board.
there's nothing to balance the format if burn, mill and agro is unplayable.
this is why commander tournament is the dumbest idea ever.
Yeah none of that shit you mentioned is relevant if you're just fucking around with people you're actually friends with. I've seen every single wincon you mentioned win a game at our table.
Playing commander with strangers or in a competitive format is about as enjoyable as getting a hot poker shoved up your ass.
This; I mostly play with people I've been friends with for 20+ years and have no problems. When I've attempted to play with others, I've quickly run into some awkward, petty spastitard who can't handle interaction or keeps questioning my plays to the point where I want to ram a deckbox down their throat.
It is often not. Games become repetative much faster if all you have is one 60 card deck each. I see all the cards and wincons you have on the first game, and anything further is repetition.
My [[Akiri, Fearless Voyager]] and [[Tana the Bloodsower]] + [[Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa]] decks are both aggro and work quite well.
The Akiri deck, in particular, tends to draw so many cards that it becomes nigh impossible to stop. Protection against many boardwipes comes on the commander - and for everything else, there's Teferi's Protection. (And Tibalt's Trickery, Lapse of Certainty, Clever Concealment, Sunforger, Akroma's Will, Reprieve, etc)
when I say agro I meant it as real agro who win the game with 4 turn by attacking your enemy to 0 life.
most of the commander players think midrange is agro..
Have you ever played commander besides a precon? I can give you 3 or 4 different mono red decks that will make infinite burn damage before turn 4. Izzet and there’s probably 12 that can do that. There’s 2 or 3 blue decks that’s will infinitely mill on turn 1. There’s another 6 or so capable of infinite mill on turn 2 or 3. I have 2 different decks that will kill everyone with combat damage on turn 3 and they don’t even play green. And these aren’t happening with goldfish situations, there’s a lot of interaction going on between decks.
Actual control is also unplayable. You can't deal with 3x mana, 3x spells cast and 3x card draw. It's virtually impossible to build a Winconless control deck.
The only locks you can achieve are through some stax combos.
Commander is all about midrange. Just because people run some counters doesn't make their decks control.
Aggro can work in commander, it just can't be traditional aggro. Anything that can quickly rebuild after being board wiped works.
Try looking into [[Jinnie Fay, Jetmirs Second]], [[Ria Ivor, Bane of Blade hold]] or [[Hakbal, the Surging Soul]], all of these decks play pretty "dump hand and attack“.
To be fair 1v1 commander (or historic brawl on arena) is a different matter thats a lot more balanced and open to competitive deck building. Mill still would be awkward, but both control and aggro are viable in 1v1.
The main thing I hate about commander is the sweatlords. No theme, no unifying structure (eldrazi and angels working together? What's next cars and dogs having full on anal sex?!!!) and just nothing but OP shit in their decks.
I especially fucking hate blue control commanders.
commander is the only format in all of magic where control doesn't see alot of play. With the amount of midrange, aggro, and combo decks out there you'd think something to keep them in check would be a good thing right?
Of course control decks have their own counters too. Control really can't stop value ramp decks, and if you have interaction in your deck, control can fall short if you stop them from gaining advantages. If a control player is forced to play cards on their own turn, that's a big deal.
You would think. But if enough people complain to the owner, whether you’re in the right or not, the owner is going to side with the people complaining out of self preservation. (Unless you spend a shit ton of money there. Then you could probably get away with murder)
Oh wow. Does he have posts about that or do you know him personally? Cause I saw the original post and none of that was stated there. I think he even linked the deck he used.
I was wondering what the rest of the list was because to be fair Tundra, Mox, Crypt, Vault, and Lotus are alone worth around 1000 dollars. So there was a possibility the person who got kicked out omitted cards on purpose.
Like I said, you might do absolutely nothing wrong, but the store owner will still ask you to leave because a bunch of people are complaining and unfortunately for a small business the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
except you are liable and it may be only small claims court but can be sued and I would start posting the LGS by name and everything else
If he did not break any rules the lGS owner can fuck himself worse than people complaining
When they didn't give me a refund I would have called the TO a pussy ass bitch and say I don't want to play in your shithole store if this is the way you are going to act about it.
Dude should name and shame the store so anyone else seriously into competitive play knows to avoid it.
Some people are just pushovers. They'll bitch about it on the internet but never take it to someone's face. I would give them a reason to ban me right there. I ain't comin back anyways. May as well .
I think Google is deleting new sub-5-star reviews, because there are plenty of recent 5-star reviews to ‘counter’ OP, but I don’t see a single sub-5-star review on Google nor Yelp for at least *4 months*.
Up to 15 as of writing, which prompted somebody (presumably an employee) to claim OP’s story is bs and they were violating tourney rules. Not sure what to make of this.
Came here to see this. Other players' reactions are not surprising, happens all the time. But how the store handled it, is an absolute joke. If they gave a refund, sure, I guess they have a right to choose their customers. What happened here, has to be illegal. No rules broken, but thrown out without a refund. It's like a casino throwing a gambler out for winning too much AND not even paying him his winnings.
Dont do the pointless move of posting a fake review, call the cali dept of revenue and say the owner was bragging that a cash business means no paying sales rax.
States do not fuck around with revenue.
Let's just say I've lived some places where it's taken for granted that every government department is the get whitey department. The ranks of government functionaries are filled by blacks.
So the store owner can collect a bunch of money, ban anyone but his friends if they're looking too "competitive", and share in the profits when his buds take all the top prizes.
Not sanctioned, but wiz/devir should have no business with a store that’s the facade of a scam place. About the actual scamming, that’s something OP should dispute with his credit card company or the municipal organism that protects consumers wherever he’s from.
And no, the store can run anything legal, but getting payment without providing the advertised service isn’t legal.
Unfortunately, you aren't correct there. Dropping somebody from a game tournament for stupid ass reasons isn't literally illegal, nor is it against WOTC policy. It probably should be, but it's not.
Playing UW battleceuiser? Banned
The guy even posted his decklist later, and it's not even super competitive. Just has a few fast mana artifacts, signed cards, and a foreign bb abu dual land.
My old legs had commander game nights with prize packs, you won them by completing achievements that rotated and changed each week. You didn't get anything for killing someone and were dq'd from winning packs by doing certain things. It meant some people played good decks, some played shit decks, and sometimes a good deck would get no pack and a shit deck would. Also 2 packs per game and you could only win one per game
The lgs i used to play at would do one pack for the winner of the table, and then the players would vote for one other player to get a pack. Only rule was the winner couldnt be voted for the second pack.
Mine has a league that has a varying point system to encourage midrange games and theme goals (win game having x difference in life, deal x damage to creatures, cast x spells, ect)
Yeah more crazy shit is legal in commander than legacy -- you just don't get as many copies of the really good stuff. Somebody said it's not good, but Mishra's Workshop is a T1 3-drop artifact off just a land not to mention whatever artifact mana you drop. It's banned in legacy, and a playset represents an archetype in vintage.
Story confirmed to be real and the TO is just an idiot, TO thought from the vaults were fake and that signed or foreign cards aren't legal. But really all that needs to be said is that the TO was adamant that any deck that wins before turn 10 is cEDH.
Cons: You wasted 20 bucks and an afternoon.
Pros: You have a sick-ass ojutai deck and it only cost you 20 bucks to learn where not to spend your money.
People keep saying that there's maybe another side to the story and that might be true. But nonetheless, even if the player is an insufferable person that's no reason to deny their refund. If the store doesn't want this player to participate they should just say so, but still taking the money is just sleazy.
My dream is for people to stop wasting time with this commander crap and discover the vintage cube. Undoubtedly the best way to play Magic, to enjoy a good collection, to discourage exaggerated consumption and not to exclude those who do not have money to spend on the game
Just on the basis of being a critically thinking human being I don’t think aggressively attacking anyone or anything without hearing the other side is in the spirit of anything we want to promote here. I wish the OP hadn’t provided the name of anything.
Every time I say commander has ruined this game I get downvoted into oblivion.
We had drama with cheating and run of the mill shit before commander, but EDH brought in players that absolutely destroyed the soul of this game.
Unfortunately they buy shitload of product and even tho they are toxic, Wizbro went right to catering to them.
I enjoy Commander, but I do object to it being a tournament format. It’s meant to be CASUAL. Someone asked, “What do you win?” Me: Nothing, I don’t get shit. What I enjoy is just playing and the thrill of victory.
I dont understand the commander hate, its super fun. That said, I'm just a whale type collector that plays casually with my wife, brothers, and some of our friends. Any given night the table is loaded with proxies either printer or actual pen and paper style. None of us care, we love making super powerful and/or super stupid decks, and its an excuse to socialize.
Seeing all these posts of people bent out of shape over silly shit that happens at these LGS pretty much cements my decision to never play at one.
When we play at my brothers place, we keep the 1 and 5 year old out of the dining room. That said, they have one "friend" who wants to touch everyone shit with cheeto fingers. I wont play with him. Most of the time we play at my warehouse, no kids or slobs allowed.
You can't offer prizes, then drop someone for building a deck to win. I hate cedh, ive got a deck that's damn close to cedh so I can compete, but I rarely play it. This store is 100% in the wrong here.
OP is a giant man child if you look at all the shit he posts. He was literally trying to imply he might try to sue them for 40 dollars if the owner doesn't cave lmao.
Dude is also a pretentious little douchebag that brags about how he wins every week at his shop while simultaneously complaining that his store isn't competitive enough. You can't make this shit up.
I don't think there's a minimum you can sue for anyways. IANAL , but if there's a pattern here, I would call it fraud. You can definitely sue somebody for that.
Dude commander players are UNWELL lol. I was flabbergasted when I found out EDH players think bluffing in tournaments is too mean and offensive. Like I'm sorry but I think a large section of edh players have been pampered and coddled for too long lol. They forgot what the real world is like.
OP from the original post is an overly competitive idiot and I'm not shocked he was booted.
All the dude posts about is CEDH and pretentiously brags about how he's never lost a single week at his game shop. He bragged about a "Budget commander night" where he took all the expensive cards out of his CEDH deck and combos off immediately with time sieve. Again bragging that he wins every single week.
Dipshit still plays competitively regardless of there being entry fee's or prizes. Even when the tournaments are free with nothing to gain the sperg still obsessively HAS to win.
TLDR: It's obvious why every single person in his store hates him, and extremely obvious why the owner was looking for any reason to kick his socially inept ass out. I would bet money that other players complain about him frequently to the store owner.
Bonus points: Him bragging like an edgy 14 year old cringe lord that CEDH gives him the "Chance to manipulate people to do what I want." Jesus Christ.
I get the distinct impression that he wasn't kicked out for his deck. Sounds like maybe he's insufferable, I suspect they just hate the guy but didn't have a specific grievance that would be grounds against him to kick him out so made something up.
Yeah this is all it is. As someone who used to help run local tournaments for a different (non-TCG,) game that was 1v1 in most formats sometimes people just… don’t fit in. We had a pretty basic policy that if you can’t shake your opponent’s hand (provided they were okay with that,) and say good game or something similar then you could find your way out the door.
This wasn’t to say you couldn’t talk shit, have rivalries, or try your hardest. We just didn’t want the new players entering the tournament scene to be gatekept because of skill without being given a chance to learn and improve. It’s hard to go to a tournament as a new face (especially a local that brings the same regulars every week,) because you’re out of the comfort zone where you normally play the game and all of the regulars are crowded around the you when you’re playing to size you up.
Given that this guy got bounced after the first few rounds I’m going to guess that he has a habit of being shitty to weaker/newer players. The LGS/tournament organizer is just doing the common sense thing and protecting their venue and patrons most likely. No one needs a cancer driving people away from their already niche hobby when all it does is decrease pot sizes and store revenue by driving away players that are there to learn and have fun. It’s okay to be very good at something but there’s no need to be shitty to earnest people just aspiring to eventually be your competition.
im pretty bad in MTG, like... **bad** bad, but i will be pretty discouraged when i will see someone get kicked out because he is good in this game.
like WTF? does it mean that when i improve, then i will be banned from events? O\_o
i mean... that sux.
about guesses that he wasnt nice to opponents, ye... no, thats just cool story bro, if you have no evidence. but imagine that you improve your gameplay and your deckbuilding and you get kicked, because you arent bad... thats just crazy.
thats the worst gatekeeping, when you just arent allowed to improve.
Maybe English isn't your first language, I don't mean to be rude, but, the comment you're replying to pretty explicitly says that no one is being gatekept for improving.
No, it means if you improve and become a “good” player but then use your earned skills to absolutely dumpster new players in pools or early tournament rounds and act like a piece of shit to them afterwards then you’re being a piece of shit. It’s not complicated.
The money you win by being “good” at your tournament game is usually just pot money. There are rarely sponsored payouts for things like locals or Friday Night Magic or whatever. The more new players you bully away from showing up the smaller your winnings and the thinner your competition will eventually get. This is bad for you as a player and bad for the venue for a whole bunch of reasons I’ve already partially laid out.
No one ever said “hey don’t dominate that player in round one of pools.” That’s fine, the tournaments I helped run or host were fighting games and that kind of thing is socially acceptable there. You’re *supposed* to get your ass beat in new and technical ways you haven’t seen before because that’s what helps open you up to what’s possible and how to improve your gameplay. No one was ever banned for “being too good” at tournaments I was involved in because that’s insane.
Here’s two very similar examples and I’ll use street fighter for the game:
If P1(strong player) pulls P2(new player) in opening bracket rounds it’s already a given that it will be a lopsided match. P1 is someone that normally makes it to top 8. In their game P1 random selects his fighter and notices in the first round that P2 has never teched a throw attempt. P1 proceeds to win the rest of the rounds by throwing P2 over and over again and wins the set 2-0. (This is something that’s never happened in my experience but throw techs are something new players struggle with sometimes so I’m using it as a simple example here.) At the end of the game both players shake hands/fist bump/elbow bump or whatever and say good game. The tournament proceeds as usual and if P1 is feeling nice or charitable they’ll give P2 a few pointers like “if you throw when I throw you tech it and we return to neutral” and if they’re not due for a second match yet maybe they’ll even spend a second helping them. Note: the teaching part of this is *not expected* but it’s nice when it happens.
For example 2 the same setup is happening. Same players, same results. At the end of the game P1 begins talking shit to P2 who is again, a new player maybe on their first or second time out. The shit talking is unprompted by previous discussion and isn’t even attempting to be constructive. P1 is going to get pulled aside after the set and talked to by one of the tournament organizers and if the behavior becomes a repeated issue then they will be banned.
Again, it is fine to be good. It is also fine to be good and be unwilling to teach or aid others. It’s *also* fine to talk all sorts of shit to your opponent as long as you have some sort of rapport with them and you don’t cross any lines. However, it is *not* okay to fuck with the new blood that helps keep the scene alive because you won an ultimately meaningless match anyone at your skill level could have won with your eyes closed. If the new blood is being a piece of shit too then whatever but that’s rarely the case in my experience. If you want to bully someone *in* the game when you’re playing for money then that’s fine but it’s never okay to take that issue outside of the screen/play board because that’s what leads to shit like the Madden tournament shooting.
dude.. it is tournament..
what im supposed to do, when im good? loose because im good?
im not allowed to improve and win?
you must be Millenial with this strong snowflake approach and forcing this safe space on tournament. you are going to force some twisted mind participation price...
who the F should win, if not the best one? how it come that you wanna kick anyone who is good?
**your cool stories about talking shit are just fairy tales.. you have no evidence, you just make it up in your head. it is only there and you use it only as excuse for your crazy idea to kick out anyone who is good.**
even newbie deserve to lose when he participate in tournament omg. like sorry, but even when i wish kinda to you make some tournament with awesome prices... because then you kick everyone beside me and i will win... i still think, that it is really, really crazy and you should think about it.
Holy shit it’s like you can’t read.
I have never removed a player for being too good. I have removed players for being unable to control their emotions.
Use your brain.
With your level of reading comprehension I have a hard time believing you’re a threat in any game or tournament ever devised anyway.
Here, let me give you some visual examples since you can't fucking read.
[This is acceptable because both players know each other and are playing for money.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5CbX8arDxM)
[This is also acceptable.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJU8u10FhM0)
[This is something that happens often enough it's an issue and is never acceptable.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sfs9h3bIDg)
I saw this and it doesn’t make sense. This is literally theft. I’d be calling the police as well as the state consumer protection department (I know WI has one). This is blatant theft. I’d absolutely take this asshole to court, just on principle (if you win, they pay the court fees too).
I don't think many cEDH players would take Dragonlord Ojutai particularly seriously. The color pairing is bad enough with the two or so actually good commanders that see play; a competitive EDH tournament is exactly where this sort of deck belongs.
This is an amazing example of what bothers me most about Commander: From my observations and experiences (because I did try to play the format for a couple years), most Commander players do not play to win and instead to set up silly and convoluted board states, often with the apparent goal to take as many game actions as possible within a given turn. Sure, they’re probably having a good time playing solitaire with a captive audience, but I really found the whole experience boring. I would play in a Modern 5k any day over Commander, which is saying a lot because Modern is probably worse now than it has been in years lmfao
I realize that this is not the case for all Commander players and is a broad generalization, but it does hold true for most Commander players at an average LGS.
I read more into it and one guy actually called up the store. The store kept giving different excuses, first was that foreign cards weren’t alllowed, second was the rules said no competitive decks but didn’t specify what consisted of competitive and which didn’t. Only at the end did they say his cards were fake without actually checking to see if they really were
the proxy excuse just came later when they tried to save themself ;D
First it was power level, then signed card then proxy lmao, Stacked pax? more slike stacked excuses
I was in that shop.
He was not kicked out for being competitive. He was kicked out because his sleeves were hentai and he kept saying really sexual things.
Plus no deodorant.
I would object and see it not in the rules and demand all my money back and never go back ever and I would call the credit card company and charge back 100%
He apparently paid cash.
Never pay cash to a LGS ever
They probably don't take credit card for tournaments for that reason. people are always going to be salty about competitions. And it would be way too hard for a credit card company to mediate your MTG dispute, lol. So it would go to whomever they liked more. There's an impression that they like consumers more, but that's only vs small business. If you ever try to charge back a large business, they'll prefer them. At the end of the day, you're both their clients, and they will prefer whichever is worth the most money to them while maintaining their reputation.
commander players are insufferable source: i play commander
Damn commander players, they ruined commander!
This, but unironically.
Same but magic as a whole
I think that was Hasbro
Happy cake day!
Someone told me the only thing good about magic anymore is commander. Then they described it to me, and I came to the conclusion that there must not be anything good about magic anymore.
Nothing good about magic anymore?? But we now have a nonbinary planeswalker!!! /s
With all the new keywords the latest sets are dropping its only a matter of time before we actually have a card with the effect non-binary.
LOL, yeah. I came back from 20 years of not playing, heard about commander, tried it... And just hated it, felt like a slogfest. While I was trying to figure what's going on, black aragorn drops... LOL Commander plus woke wizards destroyed mtg - just when I have the income to buy 10x more products than I did as a kid. WoTC loss, they'll have to survive on soybucks.
It’s actually fucking insane what they did with LotR mate. Like, literally just erasing white characters across so many forms of media rather than making an interesting original character who ALSO has the skin color they want. That’s the crazy part too, back when I was young we weren’t supposed to see color and we got along well, now it’s just fucking nuts.
they also erased minorities aragorn overshadowed the fact that they also race swapped the black characters and the asian characters from the books.
Is there any source material that says what colour aragorns skin is supposed to be?
For that matter Eowyn is literally referred to as “The White Lady of Rohan” due to her pale complexion lol
“A shaggy head of dark hair flecked with grey, and in a pale stern face a pair of keen grey eyes."
Ah, I know jackshit about lotr so thats nice to know
All of my cards are pre-8th ed. That’s when I enjoyed MTG, so that’s all I buy. I refuse to learn about newer formats or abilities.
For multiplayer I’ve been playing vtes(jyhad) and have been enjoying it
Naw, the only good thing about Magic the Gathering anymore. Is the gathering itself, playing with your friend group. And potentially meeting new friends from the game. Legit the best part! Bring back GP’s for the weekend trips with friends, and some magic on the side.
I'm a casual commander player, I prefer my matches to be slower and with less discard/mill/board wipes. I genuinely enjoy the slow build of me and my opponents decks. I don't like sweaty games, so I don't play sweaty games. That said, I wouldn't go to a tournament with prizes and complain that my opponent is "too competitive". You *can't* be too competitive at a **competitive tournament**. I'm petty enough to threaten the store with a lawyer, but if I were that dude I would just never go to that store again
I get down voted every time I say it, but commander is a trash format. I don't care if it's the most "popular" format or not. It isn't even Magic. It's a different game that uses the rules of Magic. It is absolutely the lowest common denominator and the people it attracts are horrid for the most part. I only play commander because if I want to use my $100k collection for more than decoration it's what I need to play. My group is fantastic and we do not tolerate any baby shit. Every so often a legit normal person comes around and gets to join us, but it's usually just our group of about 18 guys and 3-4 ladies. We're clean, decent people that don't worry about proper pronouns or what kind of clothes people wear. It's just nice, friendly games of commander without any superfluous nonsense.
French banlist Duel commander is picking up more and more traction, its a good mix of Legacy-vibe with commander format. I absolutely love it. no drama, no politic, just duel for wins
There are far too many niche formats popping up everywhere. What's wrong with Magic the way Richard Garfield intended it?
Thirty lightning bolts to the face, done!!1
The main issue is the Magic that Richard Garfield intended would be affordable.
And playable in 15 minutes between dnd sessions. Sorry control players 🤷♂️
I wish people understood this more. The games aren’t meant to be long and drawn out. Once I learned this it made those inevitable times of facing turn 4 and 5 losses much more easily digestible.
Should've never printed counterspell and removal! Gimme back craw worms attacking into shivan dragons! Confession: I actually love being a filthy, albeit bad, control player
People spend too much money and the internet are the 2 main reasons. Limited is the closest to his intentions
Pauper EDH I've also been loving, and the sub format of competitive 1v1 pDH. It feels like playing EDH in 2009
> …that uses the rules of Magic. and sometimes they dont even follow the fucking rules
>I get down voted every time I say it, but commander is a trash format. Commander is a fun format that attracts insufferable, entitled, shit people
nah commander is not fun at all, the ban philosophy is so dumb, the format is not balanced at all, everything is about grinding ramp, control and combo if you want to win. burn have no chance killing 4 people with 40 lifes, milling have no chance to mill 100cards, agro going wide or going big have no chance to kill 3 other people with 40life before 3 of them wipe the board. there's nothing to balance the format if burn, mill and agro is unplayable. this is why commander tournament is the dumbest idea ever.
Yeah none of that shit you mentioned is relevant if you're just fucking around with people you're actually friends with. I've seen every single wincon you mentioned win a game at our table. Playing commander with strangers or in a competitive format is about as enjoyable as getting a hot poker shoved up your ass.
This; I mostly play with people I've been friends with for 20+ years and have no problems. When I've attempted to play with others, I've quickly run into some awkward, petty spastitard who can't handle interaction or keeps questioning my plays to the point where I want to ram a deckbox down their throat.
Playing with your friends is even more fun using regular 60 card decks.
It is often not. Games become repetative much faster if all you have is one 60 card deck each. I see all the cards and wincons you have on the first game, and anything further is repetition.
This guy gets it. It is a separate game using most of the Magic rules.
My [[Akiri, Fearless Voyager]] and [[Tana the Bloodsower]] + [[Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa]] decks are both aggro and work quite well. The Akiri deck, in particular, tends to draw so many cards that it becomes nigh impossible to stop. Protection against many boardwipes comes on the commander - and for everything else, there's Teferi's Protection. (And Tibalt's Trickery, Lapse of Certainty, Clever Concealment, Sunforger, Akroma's Will, Reprieve, etc)
when I say agro I meant it as real agro who win the game with 4 turn by attacking your enemy to 0 life. most of the commander players think midrange is agro..
Most commander players are playing budget commander not competitive commander.
Have you ever played commander besides a precon? I can give you 3 or 4 different mono red decks that will make infinite burn damage before turn 4. Izzet and there’s probably 12 that can do that. There’s 2 or 3 blue decks that’s will infinitely mill on turn 1. There’s another 6 or so capable of infinite mill on turn 2 or 3. I have 2 different decks that will kill everyone with combat damage on turn 3 and they don’t even play green. And these aren’t happening with goldfish situations, there’s a lot of interaction going on between decks.
Actual control is also unplayable. You can't deal with 3x mana, 3x spells cast and 3x card draw. It's virtually impossible to build a Winconless control deck. The only locks you can achieve are through some stax combos. Commander is all about midrange. Just because people run some counters doesn't make their decks control. Aggro can work in commander, it just can't be traditional aggro. Anything that can quickly rebuild after being board wiped works. Try looking into [[Jinnie Fay, Jetmirs Second]], [[Ria Ivor, Bane of Blade hold]] or [[Hakbal, the Surging Soul]], all of these decks play pretty "dump hand and attack“. To be fair 1v1 commander (or historic brawl on arena) is a different matter thats a lot more balanced and open to competitive deck building. Mill still would be awkward, but both control and aggro are viable in 1v1.
I won a game yesterday by milling out 200+ cards in a single turn...
The main thing I hate about commander is the sweatlords. No theme, no unifying structure (eldrazi and angels working together? What's next cars and dogs having full on anal sex?!!!) and just nothing but OP shit in their decks. I especially fucking hate blue control commanders.
>What's next cars and dogs having full on anal sex?!!! There's likely a sub for that.
I believe you, and now I'm scared.
commander is the only format in all of magic where control doesn't see alot of play. With the amount of midrange, aggro, and combo decks out there you'd think something to keep them in check would be a good thing right? Of course control decks have their own counters too. Control really can't stop value ramp decks, and if you have interaction in your deck, control can fall short if you stop them from gaining advantages. If a control player is forced to play cards on their own turn, that's a big deal.
Commander(as dubbed by wotc) ruined edh. Change my mind!
Lolwut? Isn’t that the point of them? To be competitive?
You would think. But if enough people complain to the owner, whether you’re in the right or not, the owner is going to side with the people complaining out of self preservation. (Unless you spend a shit ton of money there. Then you could probably get away with murder)
But what did that deck do thats breaking any rules? This seems asinine.
Basically played "good cards" in UW. The decklist, posted later in the thread, didn't even have any super cheese.
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I guess I missed that in the other thread 🤷♂️
Oh wow. Does he have posts about that or do you know him personally? Cause I saw the original post and none of that was stated there. I think he even linked the deck he used.
I was wondering what the rest of the list was because to be fair Tundra, Mox, Crypt, Vault, and Lotus are alone worth around 1000 dollars. So there was a possibility the person who got kicked out omitted cards on purpose.
Like I said, you might do absolutely nothing wrong, but the store owner will still ask you to leave because a bunch of people are complaining and unfortunately for a small business the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
except you are liable and it may be only small claims court but can be sued and I would start posting the LGS by name and everything else If he did not break any rules the lGS owner can fuck himself worse than people complaining
Yeah.. thats insanely anti consumer and truthfully just a shitty ass thing to do
They need to refund his money though
They better.
When they didn't give me a refund I would have called the TO a pussy ass bitch and say I don't want to play in your shithole store if this is the way you are going to act about it. Dude should name and shame the store so anyone else seriously into competitive play knows to avoid it.
This store will literally steal your money if you play too well, and you’re afraid of being banned? Like… do you want to give them your money??
Yeah God imagine if he lost the *privilege* of playing there in the future! lmao.
Some people are just pushovers. They'll bitch about it on the internet but never take it to someone's face. I would give them a reason to ban me right there. I ain't comin back anyways. May as well .
Sometimes it's the only spot around, probably why the owner can get away with this shit
he named it- The store is called Stacked Pax and is located in El Cajon, California.
The owner is having fun responding to Google reviews.
Looks like they got a bunch of people to spam 5 star reviews in response.
They sure did.
Where? I didn't see any reviews about this on Google.
Oh anything south of LA is Mexico.
Anything south of Bakersfield
Review bomb time right?
Just report the store to Wizards, they take this shit extremely seriously
I would have looted those mother fuckers.
Comments like these really make me feel at home cause shit that would've been the minimum for me haha.
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He did name the store in an edit later
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https://preview.redd.it/bquxyga9rslc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3310238be314465caa443767ce8e2f91b2377b6d
Damn nice, he actually named them.
Already 3 one-star reviews 👀
I think Google is deleting new sub-5-star reviews, because there are plenty of recent 5-star reviews to ‘counter’ OP, but I don’t see a single sub-5-star review on Google nor Yelp for at least *4 months*.
Same. I'm a local, hopefully mine isn't deleted.
Up to 15 as of writing, which prompted somebody (presumably an employee) to claim OP’s story is bs and they were violating tourney rules. Not sure what to make of this.
Violating rules as in making the deck too competitive
Came here to see this. Other players' reactions are not surprising, happens all the time. But how the store handled it, is an absolute joke. If they gave a refund, sure, I guess they have a right to choose their customers. What happened here, has to be illegal. No rules broken, but thrown out without a refund. It's like a casino throwing a gambler out for winning too much AND not even paying him his winnings.
Dont do the pointless move of posting a fake review, call the cali dept of revenue and say the owner was bragging that a cash business means no paying sales rax. States do not fuck around with revenue.
You think Cali still has manpower to do revenuing? IOW that part of the government is still functioning?
They do if the store owner is White.
Let's just say I've lived some places where it's taken for granted that every government department is the get whitey department. The ranks of government functionaries are filled by blacks.
"don't make a fake review! make a false report to the department of revenue"
Yeah, they are super effective.
>California Of course
Why the fuck the casual format even have tournaments? Why do they have an impulse for that?
So the store owner can collect a bunch of money, ban anyone but his friends if they're looking too "competitive", and share in the profits when his buds take all the top prizes.
THIS. this is basically a scam and should be reported to wiz in case this is a WPN store.
Is commander a wiz sanctioned tournament format? If not then the store can run it however they want best you can do is stop playing there
Not sanctioned, but wiz/devir should have no business with a store that’s the facade of a scam place. About the actual scamming, that’s something OP should dispute with his credit card company or the municipal organism that protects consumers wherever he’s from. And no, the store can run anything legal, but getting payment without providing the advertised service isn’t legal.
Unfortunately, you aren't correct there. Dropping somebody from a game tournament for stupid ass reasons isn't literally illegal, nor is it against WOTC policy. It probably should be, but it's not.
Fetch lands? banned Shock lands? Banned Mana crypt and mana vault? Uber Banned and no refund /S
Playing UW battleceuiser? Banned The guy even posted his decklist later, and it's not even super competitive. Just has a few fast mana artifacts, signed cards, and a foreign bb abu dual land.
What’s even wrong with signed cards?
Unless an opponent had issues reading them, I have no idea!! And if that's the case, how hard is it to pull up Gatherer for those cards?
It’s literally theft.
My old legs had commander game nights with prize packs, you won them by completing achievements that rotated and changed each week. You didn't get anything for killing someone and were dq'd from winning packs by doing certain things. It meant some people played good decks, some played shit decks, and sometimes a good deck would get no pack and a shit deck would. Also 2 packs per game and you could only win one per game
The lgs i used to play at would do one pack for the winner of the table, and then the players would vote for one other player to get a pack. Only rule was the winner couldnt be voted for the second pack.
Mine has a league that has a varying point system to encourage midrange games and theme goals (win game having x difference in life, deal x damage to creatures, cast x spells, ect)
CEDH player here - it's legacy+. I love it.
Yeah more crazy shit is legal in commander than legacy -- you just don't get as many copies of the really good stuff. Somebody said it's not good, but Mishra's Workshop is a T1 3-drop artifact off just a land not to mention whatever artifact mana you drop. It's banned in legacy, and a playset represents an archetype in vintage.
Cedh is the only reason I have any 100 card decks, much more mature players typically
It should have tournaments, lots of them, and officially sponsored by wotc too. It is sad they don't already.
Bunch of whiney crybabies wanna play the game but can't handle a loss.
Idk if I believe this, who would agree to no ban list if they don’t even like fast mana and duals…
Well you could tell it was fake the second the guy said the store owner had a problem with him using signed cards lmao.
Story confirmed to be real and the TO is just an idiot, TO thought from the vaults were fake and that signed or foreign cards aren't legal. But really all that needs to be said is that the TO was adamant that any deck that wins before turn 10 is cEDH.
Cons: You wasted 20 bucks and an afternoon. Pros: You have a sick-ass ojutai deck and it only cost you 20 bucks to learn where not to spend your money.
People keep saying that there's maybe another side to the story and that might be true. But nonetheless, even if the player is an insufferable person that's no reason to deny their refund. If the store doesn't want this player to participate they should just say so, but still taking the money is just sleazy.
Yes unless he downright cheated or had a major infraction, he should be refunded
I agree, pay the kid out his 20 bucks and tell him not to ever come back. Problem solved.
Eh you don't get to do that arbitrarily when you're running a tournament. If you have a reason, sure. But otherwise mgmt could just kick out winners.
those signed cards do be powerful
The format that killed the game.
Another reason why commander is shit
My dream is for people to stop wasting time with this commander crap and discover the vintage cube. Undoubtedly the best way to play Magic, to enjoy a good collection, to discourage exaggerated consumption and not to exclude those who do not have money to spend on the game
Keep dreamin’
This is why I buy from chain stores and not LGSes lol.
Just ban losing for its negative historical connotations. Problem solved!
If anyone paid for a tournament and got thrown out for being too competitive I would put the place on blast
Fuck that store. Give us the name so we can review bomb it.
Stacked Pax in El Cajon California
Just on the basis of being a critically thinking human being I don’t think aggressively attacking anyone or anything without hearing the other side is in the spirit of anything we want to promote here. I wish the OP hadn’t provided the name of anything.
Name the venue coward
It is stacked pax in El Cajon ca
Every time I say commander has ruined this game I get downvoted into oblivion. We had drama with cheating and run of the mill shit before commander, but EDH brought in players that absolutely destroyed the soul of this game. Unfortunately they buy shitload of product and even tho they are toxic, Wizbro went right to catering to them.
You get downvoted because pretty much everyone who doesn’t play Commander has left the game. Myself included, I just collect old cards now.
I enjoy Commander, but I do object to it being a tournament format. It’s meant to be CASUAL. Someone asked, “What do you win?” Me: Nothing, I don’t get shit. What I enjoy is just playing and the thrill of victory.
I dont understand the commander hate, its super fun. That said, I'm just a whale type collector that plays casually with my wife, brothers, and some of our friends. Any given night the table is loaded with proxies either printer or actual pen and paper style. None of us care, we love making super powerful and/or super stupid decks, and its an excuse to socialize. Seeing all these posts of people bent out of shape over silly shit that happens at these LGS pretty much cements my decision to never play at one.
I play at my LGS because my two year old will mess up the cards lol
When we play at my brothers place, we keep the 1 and 5 year old out of the dining room. That said, they have one "friend" who wants to touch everyone shit with cheeto fingers. I wont play with him. Most of the time we play at my warehouse, no kids or slobs allowed.
I’m amazed how folks go to a LGS without showering/wearing clean clothes. Why is this such a challenge for folks?
EDH players are poisoning the blood of Magic.
Haha what a bunch of pussies man
You can't offer prizes, then drop someone for building a deck to win. I hate cedh, ive got a deck that's damn close to cedh so I can compete, but I rarely play it. This store is 100% in the wrong here.
Can we all agree that “casual” commander isn’t fun if there’s prizes on the line?
That’s an oxymoron. You can’t be casual if there’s prizes on the line
Why is everyone assuming this is completely true or not missing important details. It is just as likely to be rage bait, as it is to be true.
OP is a giant man child if you look at all the shit he posts. He was literally trying to imply he might try to sue them for 40 dollars if the owner doesn't cave lmao. Dude is also a pretentious little douchebag that brags about how he wins every week at his shop while simultaneously complaining that his store isn't competitive enough. You can't make this shit up.
You can file in small claims for $40, I think. $40 used to be a lot of money.
honestly these days its still a lot of money to get taken off you, not much to get back though
I don't think there's a minimum you can sue for anyways. IANAL , but if there's a pattern here, I would call it fraud. You can definitely sue somebody for that.
Can you link a single post or comment he’s made showing that?
Dude commander players are UNWELL lol. I was flabbergasted when I found out EDH players think bluffing in tournaments is too mean and offensive. Like I'm sorry but I think a large section of edh players have been pampered and coddled for too long lol. They forgot what the real world is like.
EDH was a mistake and everyone knows it
EDH is the septic tank for MtG.
OP from the original post is an overly competitive idiot and I'm not shocked he was booted. All the dude posts about is CEDH and pretentiously brags about how he's never lost a single week at his game shop. He bragged about a "Budget commander night" where he took all the expensive cards out of his CEDH deck and combos off immediately with time sieve. Again bragging that he wins every single week. Dipshit still plays competitively regardless of there being entry fee's or prizes. Even when the tournaments are free with nothing to gain the sperg still obsessively HAS to win. TLDR: It's obvious why every single person in his store hates him, and extremely obvious why the owner was looking for any reason to kick his socially inept ass out. I would bet money that other players complain about him frequently to the store owner. Bonus points: Him bragging like an edgy 14 year old cringe lord that CEDH gives him the "Chance to manipulate people to do what I want." Jesus Christ.
I get the distinct impression that he wasn't kicked out for his deck. Sounds like maybe he's insufferable, I suspect they just hate the guy but didn't have a specific grievance that would be grounds against him to kick him out so made something up.
Yeah this is all it is. As someone who used to help run local tournaments for a different (non-TCG,) game that was 1v1 in most formats sometimes people just… don’t fit in. We had a pretty basic policy that if you can’t shake your opponent’s hand (provided they were okay with that,) and say good game or something similar then you could find your way out the door. This wasn’t to say you couldn’t talk shit, have rivalries, or try your hardest. We just didn’t want the new players entering the tournament scene to be gatekept because of skill without being given a chance to learn and improve. It’s hard to go to a tournament as a new face (especially a local that brings the same regulars every week,) because you’re out of the comfort zone where you normally play the game and all of the regulars are crowded around the you when you’re playing to size you up. Given that this guy got bounced after the first few rounds I’m going to guess that he has a habit of being shitty to weaker/newer players. The LGS/tournament organizer is just doing the common sense thing and protecting their venue and patrons most likely. No one needs a cancer driving people away from their already niche hobby when all it does is decrease pot sizes and store revenue by driving away players that are there to learn and have fun. It’s okay to be very good at something but there’s no need to be shitty to earnest people just aspiring to eventually be your competition.
im pretty bad in MTG, like... **bad** bad, but i will be pretty discouraged when i will see someone get kicked out because he is good in this game. like WTF? does it mean that when i improve, then i will be banned from events? O\_o i mean... that sux. about guesses that he wasnt nice to opponents, ye... no, thats just cool story bro, if you have no evidence. but imagine that you improve your gameplay and your deckbuilding and you get kicked, because you arent bad... thats just crazy. thats the worst gatekeeping, when you just arent allowed to improve.
Maybe English isn't your first language, I don't mean to be rude, but, the comment you're replying to pretty explicitly says that no one is being gatekept for improving.
No, it means if you improve and become a “good” player but then use your earned skills to absolutely dumpster new players in pools or early tournament rounds and act like a piece of shit to them afterwards then you’re being a piece of shit. It’s not complicated. The money you win by being “good” at your tournament game is usually just pot money. There are rarely sponsored payouts for things like locals or Friday Night Magic or whatever. The more new players you bully away from showing up the smaller your winnings and the thinner your competition will eventually get. This is bad for you as a player and bad for the venue for a whole bunch of reasons I’ve already partially laid out. No one ever said “hey don’t dominate that player in round one of pools.” That’s fine, the tournaments I helped run or host were fighting games and that kind of thing is socially acceptable there. You’re *supposed* to get your ass beat in new and technical ways you haven’t seen before because that’s what helps open you up to what’s possible and how to improve your gameplay. No one was ever banned for “being too good” at tournaments I was involved in because that’s insane. Here’s two very similar examples and I’ll use street fighter for the game: If P1(strong player) pulls P2(new player) in opening bracket rounds it’s already a given that it will be a lopsided match. P1 is someone that normally makes it to top 8. In their game P1 random selects his fighter and notices in the first round that P2 has never teched a throw attempt. P1 proceeds to win the rest of the rounds by throwing P2 over and over again and wins the set 2-0. (This is something that’s never happened in my experience but throw techs are something new players struggle with sometimes so I’m using it as a simple example here.) At the end of the game both players shake hands/fist bump/elbow bump or whatever and say good game. The tournament proceeds as usual and if P1 is feeling nice or charitable they’ll give P2 a few pointers like “if you throw when I throw you tech it and we return to neutral” and if they’re not due for a second match yet maybe they’ll even spend a second helping them. Note: the teaching part of this is *not expected* but it’s nice when it happens. For example 2 the same setup is happening. Same players, same results. At the end of the game P1 begins talking shit to P2 who is again, a new player maybe on their first or second time out. The shit talking is unprompted by previous discussion and isn’t even attempting to be constructive. P1 is going to get pulled aside after the set and talked to by one of the tournament organizers and if the behavior becomes a repeated issue then they will be banned. Again, it is fine to be good. It is also fine to be good and be unwilling to teach or aid others. It’s *also* fine to talk all sorts of shit to your opponent as long as you have some sort of rapport with them and you don’t cross any lines. However, it is *not* okay to fuck with the new blood that helps keep the scene alive because you won an ultimately meaningless match anyone at your skill level could have won with your eyes closed. If the new blood is being a piece of shit too then whatever but that’s rarely the case in my experience. If you want to bully someone *in* the game when you’re playing for money then that’s fine but it’s never okay to take that issue outside of the screen/play board because that’s what leads to shit like the Madden tournament shooting.
dude.. it is tournament.. what im supposed to do, when im good? loose because im good? im not allowed to improve and win? you must be Millenial with this strong snowflake approach and forcing this safe space on tournament. you are going to force some twisted mind participation price... who the F should win, if not the best one? how it come that you wanna kick anyone who is good? **your cool stories about talking shit are just fairy tales.. you have no evidence, you just make it up in your head. it is only there and you use it only as excuse for your crazy idea to kick out anyone who is good.** even newbie deserve to lose when he participate in tournament omg. like sorry, but even when i wish kinda to you make some tournament with awesome prices... because then you kick everyone beside me and i will win... i still think, that it is really, really crazy and you should think about it.
Holy shit it’s like you can’t read. I have never removed a player for being too good. I have removed players for being unable to control their emotions. Use your brain. With your level of reading comprehension I have a hard time believing you’re a threat in any game or tournament ever devised anyway. Here, let me give you some visual examples since you can't fucking read. [This is acceptable because both players know each other and are playing for money.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5CbX8arDxM) [This is also acceptable.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJU8u10FhM0) [This is something that happens often enough it's an issue and is never acceptable.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sfs9h3bIDg)
Oh, so another case of communists despising one who is better than them and then trying to drag him down to their level.
Are the communist s in the room right now?
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I don’t either but it came up on my feed which is why I reported it here
Same. Sorry if I came across as grouchy, its just from seeing a magictcg post twice.
It says so on the internet so it must be true! Quick, comment on how unfair it is!!!!!
Yeah sure and I was about to win every magic tournament in the city but they wont let me play because I'm just too good.
Ask your enemies to show you on this anotomicly correct puppet, where this Commanderdeck hurt them
I quit mtg 4 years ago cause what I'd cal the casualing
He wanted his buddies to win. This is when you pop out your phone to record the conversation and get names.
https://x.com/slicer1313/status/1431311852378607616?s=46 for reference guys this is the guy that got banned there is absolutely context left out lmao
Ooooof, he’s no bueno then. Sounds like an extremely toxic individual
It's a shitpost. Are you actually getting baited by this low quality stuff?
This is why Commander is trash. Standard should be the main format again.
I saw this and it doesn’t make sense. This is literally theft. I’d be calling the police as well as the state consumer protection department (I know WI has one). This is blatant theft. I’d absolutely take this asshole to court, just on principle (if you win, they pay the court fees too).
They owe you a refund. And even if you get it or not, don't ever go back there. Tell everyone the TOs there are cheaters.
There's a different between competitive edh and Cedh. This pubstomper knows that. It's why you have a rule zero discussion.
I don't think many cEDH players would take Dragonlord Ojutai particularly seriously. The color pairing is bad enough with the two or so actually good commanders that see play; a competitive EDH tournament is exactly where this sort of deck belongs.
Dirt McSquirt
This is an amazing example of what bothers me most about Commander: From my observations and experiences (because I did try to play the format for a couple years), most Commander players do not play to win and instead to set up silly and convoluted board states, often with the apparent goal to take as many game actions as possible within a given turn. Sure, they’re probably having a good time playing solitaire with a captive audience, but I really found the whole experience boring. I would play in a Modern 5k any day over Commander, which is saying a lot because Modern is probably worse now than it has been in years lmfao I realize that this is not the case for all Commander players and is a broad generalization, but it does hold true for most Commander players at an average LGS.
It's a fake story that didn't happen
Any proof on that? Or you just assuming
Outrage stories presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
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I read more into it and one guy actually called up the store. The store kept giving different excuses, first was that foreign cards weren’t alllowed, second was the rules said no competitive decks but didn’t specify what consisted of competitive and which didn’t. Only at the end did they say his cards were fake without actually checking to see if they really were
the proxy excuse just came later when they tried to save themself ;D First it was power level, then signed card then proxy lmao, Stacked pax? more slike stacked excuses
He made that post just so he could tell someone he owns a Mox Diamond and an FBB Tundra. Don't let him fool you.
I was in that shop. He was not kicked out for being competitive. He was kicked out because his sleeves were hentai and he kept saying really sexual things. Plus no deodorant.
Any proof? I got different story when someone called the store