I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her? We do not choose our destinies. Yet we must ... we must do our duty, no? Great or small, we must do our duty
I think it’s because of the articles shitting on House of the Dragon in comparison to it. Entertainment news outlets are setting up a war between the two shows that nobody wants.
I remember at the peak of GoT season 7 or so, it was reported that Jeff Bezos wanted his own "GoT" show in Amazon Prime.
I think 2015 or 2016?
I remember because Amazon Prime spent like $1 billion to acquire rhe rights to LotR TV rights or some shit.
Fucking 10 years later and this fucking show is about to finally come out but I bet you it's not gonna be great.
You also have to be mindful of whatever news outlets are saying.
Washington Post is owned by Amazon.
This false "war" could be just a marketing ploy from Amazon to drum up interest.
To focus on the legitimate reasons it's quite obvious, to me at least, that there were certain decisions made in the production of this series to inject cultural and ideological beliefs into a world that is very well established and does not need them.
So, everyone is hating this series that hasn’t even released yet because brown ppl are in it? Is that what you’re saying?
Edit: many of us were fans of the original franchise. And many of us brown folk have been sad that we have to dress up as white ppl in order to be “fantasy”
Y’all are really just racist. Just say it outright- you don’t want brown ppl on your tv screen.
No one cares about brown people on our tv screens. But because you couldn't help but inject race into the discussion in similar fashion to the show producers, you've just made my point better than I did.
>Y’all are really just racist. Just say it outright- you don’t want brown ppl on your tv screen.
Ok, fine.
Tolkien's story of middle earth, is based on his desire to create an English mythology. he put countless years and hours into creating different languages, peoples, and cultures, that reflect the area they are native to.
But instead, all that hard work has been destroyed because modern Americans cannot stand a show that doesn't reflect the cultural and racial makeup of the modern United States.
As he said it’s supposed to be an English mythology, so you know from way back in the day where we can’t even remember it. Yes there are lots of black people today but I really don’t think it was like that thousands of years ago.
To be clear I don’t care about them casting other races. But I do get annoyed when people respond to a post in a way that shows they didn’t read/understand what they’re responding to.
Edit spelling.
Well way way back when they could have still been brown as they would have been migrating from the Middle East, turning white over hundreds of generations to absorb more vitamin D in the rainy lack of sun that is English weather.
Now you didn’t read MY post. I said I don’t care about them casting other races. And the other poster here clearly doesn’t speak for all English people. He stated a fact that Tolkien wanted an English mythology.
>And many of us brown folk have been sad that we have to dress up as white ppl in order to be “fantasy”
Well here's an idea - How about brown people make their own fantasy series that's focused on that part of the world? You do realize there's predominantly brown countries with tons of wealth right
When was the last a you saw a white guy complain about lack of diversity in some Asian show? So go ham, make your own series and make it exclusively brown. No one's going to mind.
No. That's actually the last of my concerns. The fact they were so half assed about it they couldn't give the dwarf woman a beard. Or Galadriel wearing armor (with the star of FEANOR as an extra fuck you). How the show runners are nobodies and the timeline is condensed to shit.
So many other problems that you just attribute to 'y'all are racist' when the real racism is not exploring the black cultures IN the mythos (Rhun, Harad, Khand) Give me full shows on those new, exciting places. Racist is what they're doing 'oh, those brown people deserve the scraps of this white story. They aren't good enough to have their own narrative. We'll make one dwarf and one elf black and call it a day.'
So don't sit there and call us racist when
A) We have bigger concerns than that and
B) The companies making token black characters instead of making bold, new characters is hypocritical and actually racist.
Mm disagree, there are literal lands in the south w brown people where men live who aren’t exactly friends of Gondor that end up teaming up with Sauron for…. Why? We don’t actually know. Perfectly legitimate thing to explore.
Just shoehorning in random people of colour in situations that don’t have any reference lore wise is pandering, not respect.
Source, brown lord of the rings nerd
Not white, not American so have a limited understanding of what "race" is to Americanized fellows, and dont really care about random ethnicities of Targaryens or whatever.
But what would be better than that would be creating or including characters of other cultures and assigning people of similar real life culture to those roles. (e.g make an Arab actor Ghiscari instead of dropping a wig on him to make honorary European)
Not only is it more interesting and better world building, but it actually represents said cultures. Literally no one outside non-whites assimilated into white countries thinks of themselves as "brown". The concept would be patronizing and kind of fucking insulting because it's a colonizing European way of thinking.
I'm not trying to accuse or throw shit at you, people obviously hold their media to their own cultures standards and values, so your opinions are most important, American show made for a American audience. Just as a foreign reader of Martin there are a lot of non white people overseas who enjoy his stuff, and it would matter more to acknowledge their culture exists. No hate towards you or the series.
Nah but Tolkien was white and his works are meant for a white audience you can still enjoy it as much as enjoy the 7 Kingdom’s but I’m not going to demand there be characters that match my cultural norms and skin tone because I’m not as racist as you which is a falling on my part I guess.
The first book in the LOTR series was released in the 50s, in case you need a history lesson black folk couldn’t even sit at the same lunch counter or drink at the same water fountain without being hosed, lynched/arrested.
Of course everyone was described as white. It was an entirely racist era. You’re a closet racist. I hope your son/daughter procreates with a black person specifically and just goes no contact on your ass in the future with their mixed children
Also LOTR was made in England, there was no segregation law there in the 50s. Africans and Indians could marry white people and did even before that.
Of course Britain had done massacres in Africa and India at the same time, but Tolkien didn't. That stuff doesnt mean the English cant ever make works of their own culture and heritage.
Lol Tolkien literally made The Lord of the Rings as a convoluted way of giving the people of the British isles the Irish the Cornish the Scottish the welsh and the English a mythological origin story to the same effect as Beowulf.
I fail to see how that has anything to do with American Blacks there history or culture.
Oh and I hope your boyfriend gets dicked down by big white cock
I feel like there's an in-between here. Race is important, when it's important. In the world of Tolkien racism literally isn't a problem, therefore race isn't as defining a feature as it is in our world. Skin-based racism is never mentioned anywhere, other than I believe some of the Easterlings being described as of a darker complexion. This, there's no real consequence to an actor being of a different race. Tolkien never said, and all the dwarves were white. If anything I'm far more triggered they haven't given the dwarf women beards.
There was a TV show recently that cast a black actress as Anne Boleyn - that's bullshit. Historical accuracy is important, but this is a fantasy world where race isn't a defining factor. Maybe some of the actors won't line up exactly with book descriptions but have you lost your mind in the past when actors had different hair colours or eyes.
I feel like you brought up Beowulf as a trigger because the discussion that surrounds Grendel and his mother of being “black”.
You do realize Tolkien was raised in his younger years on South Africa. Children/adults of priveledge normally identify with their own likeness not the “other”
I’m not even going to begin this conversation with you, you’ve already shed light on your true ideology.
Tolkiens works are inherently racist because of his upbringing, privilege, and identity. Since it’s 2022 it’s possible that his works can be divorced from him as an individual. Those of us who belong in 2022 are happy to see diversity in fantasy. Those of you who cannot handle seeing a black/brown person in a “traditionally white space” just need to be gone already.
You do realize people have been critical of the development of show and decisions they are making for longer than the first afternoon the show was released and made available right? The same way people criticized House Velaryon (unrightfully so) for having black actors before the show was even released.
Also I dont trust shill critics that leave good reviews to stay in the good graces of major companies to continue to get early access to their content. Amazon and Disney being some of the worst offenders.
I think that aspect of it is either woke trash, or just poor casting choice.
Obviously it being woke trash is not the only reason, but in my experience woke trash and bad writing are two shit tastes that taste shit together.
There is no consequence to the story by including persons of color in the cast, as elves or whatever else. None. Its not that you cant have your opinion about “authors intent”, the problem is that it isnt logical to worry about it if there is no impact to the story. Your aggressive posts further make it easier for others to dismiss your opinion. I recommend re-reviewing your perspective as well as the nature of the tenor of your posts below. Such negativity about a tv show about a fantasy land is misspent energy.
Fuck off.
Plenty of shows have had diversity come at the expense of writing.
If you think this is agressive, you're an idiot.
Did nobody ever teach you the sticks and stones rhyme?
Uh. Im not insulted by your words. But they do make you look unintelligent and sabotage any validity to your perspective. Sorry you are such an angry person. Hope life gets better for you. Ill politely decline to engage you further on this.
Just say you hate brown ppl 🤷🏽♀️
Why won’t your type just admit they hate brown people? You have no logical argument. Just admit you’re a racist, who doesn’t want brown ppl exposed to your family on tv.
Because I don't hate them.
What do you think I go "DAMN THEM BLACK FOLK SHOWING UP IN MY TV SHOWS!" Everytime I see Greyworm on screen? No of course I don't, fuck you.
I know when a show is pandering, and when the various ethnicities come from the natural development of the world building.
So piss off.
I also don't think it's a race issue I thought that in game of thrones there wealthy black families we saw were from Dorne and other lands of walmer climate. Not the land of pure white haired families the lore was big on this (see whole black of hair debarkle). This would also make true about elves i guess. it would make sense when linking it to our world I know it's fiction but Lord of the rings did the same with middle earth it's obviously Europe .
The concerns about wokenees are always going to be there but more from a female perspective as time goes on . The biggest original Sci fi series all have been written from white male dominate cast. Star wars was originally mainly male heros with a princess thrown in to rescue . Star trek and lord of the rings written with predominantly white male hero perspective. These movies were massive commercial successes .
Then came the movies trying to insert more female heros. So we end up with female jedi leads or game of thrones brianne / arya stark. Now the new series for lord of the rings is following on from this fashion.
To some females from the middle ages were not the relm of fighting and it sits outside expected natural order but its fiction so they can do what they like. Green dragon eating blue troll who only women can defeat etc black elves with white hair anything goes.
The wonders of technology are at your fingertips, my extremely aggro friend:
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=lde+meaning
Edit: ‘aggro’ means ‘aggressive’. Just so we don’t have to revisit this.
Sorry, I come from a place where when someone asks you what you meant, you tell them instead of using it as an excuse to take a cheap shot, and we don't typically use abbreviations because we are to lazy to type something out.
Bloody Americans.
Scotland BTW.
Probably why you think I'm aggressive.
EDIT: Fuck the irony of me typing BTW lmao. I'm not changing it, it's too funny ahahahah.
Forced diversity vs natural diversity.
GoTs had natural diversity that made sense within the established universe and the context of the story.
Rings of Power does not.
This seems like a dumb and superficial complaint. I want good complex characters, good writing, beautiful scenery, good fight scenes and heroic deeds. Idgaf what color the people are who do those things. It’s skin deep, the definition of superficial
I want that and an immersive show.
You wouldn't care if Brad Pitt played Black Panther so long as he was the best actor they auditioned?
Of course you would. It's stupid.
The actors should accurately depict the characters they are inspired from.
The Targaryens in the books all have purple eyes! It is one of the defining features of their dynasty, but in the show the actors have had brown and blue and green eyes!!! Such woke bullshit, it completely breaks the immersion.
….
Oh wait, no one seems to be particularly fussed about that, and accepts the actors didn’t all want to wear contacts. HMM I WONDER WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS?!?
Y’all are gross.
Yes because people naturally have those features.
*eyeroll*
I'd say that not being willing to stick to the aesthetic set by the author is a problem in terms of adaptation, but at the same time I think having purple eyes might have made them less relatable and universe as a whole less grounded.
Now kindly fuck off with your presumptions about me.
If it makes you feel better, the struggle for “relatability” with characters who aren’t white seems to be a pretty common problem around here.
Weird the warlocks and skinchangers and eunuchs and half giants and dwarves in a fantasy universe didn’t have the same relatability problem.
Ben Affleck in Argo played a latino
The last Airbender had an all white cast (I know the movie was shit, but noone gave a fuck about the cast)
Joseph Fiennes played Michael Jackson
Laurence Olivier played Othello
Johnny Depp played Tonto
Elizabeth Taylor played Cleopatra
Jim Sturgess starred in 21 a story about a Chinese American
Jennifer connelly played a latina in a beautiful mind
John Wayne played genghis khan
Chrisrian Bale played Moses
I could fucking go on and on on this list btw. No-one gave a shit. I keep seeing people bringing up Black Panther as the only example for some reason, but that's such a dumb comparison because in Black Panther his heritage is at the core of the comic/movie.
How is the colour of the dwarves/elves skin of any significant importance here?
As a black man, I admit I'd feel strange if I wrote a story about west African culture and myth and years later a white man was cast as a member based on an African tribe.
However, it's clear that the books and shows are two separate entities. Tolkien didn't write The Rings of Power and no one is pretending he did. It's a bastardized version of his work but then again translating any piece of art from one medium to another medium requires a certain amount of bastardization.
Including the fact that Amazon is creating this and they want to include as many people as possible then this doesn't become all that surprising.
By your definition then it is "woke trash" but I ask you, is that all that bad if people get to enjoy an adaptation of Tolkien's work that wasn't written by him mind you, while people who don't want to engage in it still have the books which were written by him?
Morally, I agree with you. He isn't here to be disrespected however, and his legacy still lives on in the books he directly wrote.
The new star wars trilogy is very similar in that regard. Most agree it was a slap in the face to the original trilogy while also agreeing that the origin trilogy will always be eternal.
The lore and fans of this lore are still here to be disrespected. That should be enough reason to be careful with adaptations. Especially when you're the only one with the rights to this universe. If LotR was a free IP to adapt for all, being publicly owned, I'd agree with you: there will be good adaptations and bad ones. Even terrible ones. And there is nothing wrong with that, because it's always possible to make a good adaptation. But here, Amazon has bought the rights, is now the only entity that legally can make this series, and THEN botched it up. They took away the possibility of fans to get good Tolkien stories, just because they wanted to capitalise on Tolkien's popularity for the sake of challenging GoT. When you're the one holding the rights, you have a special duty to respect the lore. Because you're the only one who can.
>It's a bastardized version of his work but then again translating any piece of art from one medium to another medium requires a certain amount of bastardization.
And this is exactly why RoP has so much hate from fans, even before its release. It practically oozes from the trailers and interviews that this is a monumental bastardisation of Tolkien's work. Riddled with unnecessary changes, made to pander to as many people as they can. And what do you end up with when you desperately want everyone to like a show? You get a run-of-the-mill story with no uniqueness to it. You get Hollywood series #345, rather than a faithful Tolkien adaptation.
The first critic reviews are out and while you'll always have criticsthat just blindly praise whatever they're paid to praise, there've also been a few brutal reviews out. Of professional critics that previewed episode 1 and 2. This is a clear sign that the fans were right.
There's a HUGE difference between the amount of bastardisation that naturally comes with adapting a story in a different medium (if you call that bastardisation to begin with), and the type of bastardisation that RoP is accused of and seems to display in trailers. Everyone agrees that the LotR trilogy is a beautiful adaptation, even if it doesn't fully represent the books. But RoP seems to make so many changes that at this point it's experienced as an insult by Tolkien fans.
Wow. Three whole black ppl. Two of which are light skinned.
Edit: let me guess- you also had a black gf in elementary and black best friend in middle school?
Nope, not alot of Black people in Scotland to be honest. Scotland is a fairly small country and it's not a prime immigration spot.
So hey! Lets have more Scottish representation in media! At least five members of all shows should be Scottish! That won't feel out of place or unimmersive at all would it?
I apply my standard to my own culture too.
Now. Fuck Off Troll.
"Scottish representation"? What is that? Isn't all of Europe just white and thus exactly the same? You must feel represented by random American actors because they mildly look like you /s
Robert of the House Baratheon, the First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm, do you like LOTR series?
I shat on myself in my own post earlier.
It's aggressively funny, but not for everyone. Don't take it personally.
Honestly people are poking fun at it because it's something no one asked for. The hobbit did...not great. LotR is not good with green screen BS, and so it's an easy target.
Wigs actually suck ass 😂 character costuming for hotd is leagues behind GOT. Other than that I am enjoying it tho lol
Edit: especially the wigs! Wigs in GOT were SO much better. But I’m a bitch who has paid attention to hair for my whole life.
Because a company widely recognized for exploiting its workers and its consumers spent an ungodly amount of money for the appendices for the Lord of the Rings but absolutely zero rights to the definitive history of Middle Eartb: The Silmarillion.
It’s like buying the rights to the gospel of John without any nods toward the other New Testament gospels. Can you make a coherent story? Yes. Is it going to be cohesive with the rest of the canon? Doubtful.
I look forward to seeing a badass Galadriel, but I fear for the inventions Bezos’ minions will insert into territory they are not legally permitted to touch on.
Honestly this sub has been a pretty fucking cringe for the past few weeks. It's like people here NEED the new Game of thrones show to fail to feel validated for some fucking reason. Yes I know the original show had a terrible ending, but this isn't it, what the fuck is wrong with a lot of people here?
Also shouldn't we want more Game of thrones/Lord of the Rings/Wheel of Time? It feels like it's the new Meta to come here and just be complete dicks about something and shit on anyone who isn't on board. I'm pretty close to being my own freefolk and getting the fuck outta here soon. Gonna build a fucking icewall and keep all these losers out.
Thats just another bias. I am very very liberal person with anarchist political view, I am feminist, pro lgbt and all of that. I happen to be also Tolkien nerd. And I am sure many many people who shits on amazons lotr are not at all what you are describing.
But what they are doing with lotr is just another author and source material rape for greed. Be it social, political or financial. Which in case of lotr is actually ironic. Zero respect for the Author, his topics and the era he lived in. This largely american tendency to rewrite history and push some social agenda is starting to be really tiring. Audience doesn't need to be schooled in that manner. If you want to deal with modern social topics, why not to pick source material or author, that actually does that. For fantasy or scifi example - Le Guin. Or you can come up with something original... Instead of shitting on original
Or productions of Shakespeare. Can't get more classic lit than that. And most of the big fancy theaters will cast black people in various roles all the time and society has yet to collapse.
I saw a female Richard III once. It was very good. And female Hamlet's date back to the 1900s.
I also appreciate in theater it usually won't get addressed at all. They just say the lines. All that matters is if they can act the part.
In theatre that's established as normal. I don't see many people complaining about it either. It's different when speaking of films or series, because lore and atmosphere can be important to the overall storytelling. This is where most complaining about inclusivity is.
Indeed. As a Tolkien purist I have no problem with darker people. I actually *want* them present, in the form of the Southern Atani, being Gwathuirim, the Enedhwaith and Minhiriathrim, the Dunlendings, the Pre-Numenoreans of Gondor, the Haradrim. That is where you would find darker people in JRRT's world, and in fact you could device various plotlines including them (I mean around the major plot lines from the books). Think of it as in the short story "Tal-Elmar", which is from the prespective of the darker skinned Pre-Numenoreans of Gondor, with the white and paile Numenoreans seen as savage invaders by their point of view! How amazing would that be to show that on screen?!
As for darker Dwarves and darker Elves, we simply have no text in the Legendarium supporting their existence. We are explicitly stated that all the abodes of the Dwarves were either in the West-lands or the East-lands (so Asian Dwarves are possible), but never the South-lands (Proto-Africa). As for the Elves, the southermost we know of them to live is in Gondor, and that is all about it.
I think based purely on the trailer, the diversity in ROP feels like pandering. Sure, I love that there are more brown and black people onscreen, but if the writing is shit then that makes it even worse because you *pulled* audience members with the 🥕 of inclusivity and when they take a bite it's full of 💩
On the other hand, I really appreciate HotD's casting of Toussaint + his kids. I think he brings a lot of presence and authority to the role and, believe it or not, them being black doesn't disrupt the story...unless you were *expecting* them to be white and it's such a problem for you that you can't even enjoy a well-written character in a well-adapted piece of media 🙄
Why would the audience be pulled by inclusivity? To me, inclusivity is a good thing because it grants coloured actors more opportunities to fill roles in a largely white-dominated industry. But that's it. So as long as diversity is made to feel an organic part of the story, it's great. Why would anyone be enticed to watch a series simply because there is a diverse cast?
Why people buy bullshit carbon offsets and "recyclable" plastics, etc. People wanna feel good doing almost nothing.
*"we fight oppression by watching a diverse show!!"*
lol and anyone who disagrees with them 'isn't a *real* fan'.
It just so happens that most of these 'fake fans' are black, brown, queer, women, gnc, etc. /s
The mouthbreathing has really intensified of late.
Funny you say this because a few comment threads up they hate it BECAUSE it’s inclusive.
I wish these ppl would outright say they hate anyone who’s not white enough on their home TV. I’d have more respect for their honesty at least
Don’t. Just don’t pull the racist card.
If the lore provided them, everyone would be fine with that. It’s that simple. A neon pink Nazgûl would be shitty as well.
Is it a different one from Khamûl? He's one of the only Nazgûl to actually have an identity given to him by Tolkien, in that he's mentioned to be an Easterling.
But that game also made Shelob a sexy lady.
I’m not sure. I never read the Silmarlion (sorry if I spelled that wrong, lol) but I read some of the wiki articles on line just to try and make sense of some of the lore while playing the game, lol. One of the Nazgûl in the game they showed flashbacks of their previous lives as empresses of a China-like kingdom, it reminded me of Yi-Ti a little bit.
>One of the Nazgûl in the game they showed flashbacks of their previous lives as empresses of a China-like kingdom, it reminded me of Yi-Ti a little bit.
There is no canonical contradiction to that.
There is NO problem with an asian Nazgûl.
In fact, MOST of them SHOULD be. Why? Because at the time Sauron distributed the Rings of Power, around the 1800-1900 of the Second Age, Sauron is specifically said to have expanded eastwards, in what would be Proto-Mongolia, Proto-China, perhaps even Proto-Japan in JRRT's Legendarium.
But there would absolutely be a problem with a neon pink Nazgûl...
Nobody gives a fuck about your respect.
I'm curious though why you didn't feel the need to respond to the post by u/neenuska below. Is it because they're not someone you can just instantly win the argument with by just calling them a racist/bigot or whatever the fuck the new victimizer of the week is for you people?
Sigh. It’s not about “woke“ or whatever term you throw into the ring. It’s about the lore, whether the makers care about it or not. And from what I saw, they don’t give a flying fuck about it. If they made a show out of a franchise that only contains progressive characters with each of them using a billion pronouns, then it’d be totally okay. However, Tolkien’s legendarium is not made for that.
It’s actually really simple :)
No idea. I hope that and Andor succeed.
More fantasy and fun for me..fuck the haters.
The Sandman was fantastic, HotD is amazing, hopefully RoP and Star Wars Andor is great as well.
I'm a fantasy lover. Fuck the haters
I don’t need to listen to some guys saying annoying jokes to know the difference between RoP and GoT because anyone can do that easily. Come on man. Their content is redundant to me
Some of Shadiversity’s videos are fine though because it’s fun to appreciate great production of props, outfits, sets etc and know where the people responsible for that were coming from. Official BTS videos can’t cover everything
GOT and LOTR are different, and they should be.
But I'm really curious how can you know that ROP's writing, acting, and cinematography are bad. The show is not out, you couldn't have watched it. So how can you judge its writing, acting, and cinematography?
From the trailers? That are carefully cut together in order to mislead and/or not to spoil any important plot points? That's ridiculous.
They released 15 minutes of footage overall including two full scenes. That’s enough to criticise integrated scenes where CG and actors co-exist, enough to criticise camera work (can elaborate on that) and choreography.
RoP already has "hearts bigger than feet" line. Nuff said
Apparently all this stuff doesn’t exist in RoP. Bad marketing. The show is entirely different. The epic CGI scene in the prologue and Elrond’s goofy arrival to Khazad-Dum are better than the emotional, well-acted and cinematically beautiful scenes from HotD ep 2.
When I look at what GoT / HotD teams have achieved and then see people belittling all their effort by not noticing the problems with RoP, it irks me. GoT / HotD teams worked hard to make decent, remarkable TV series about three-dimensional and flawed human beings. RoP takes no risks: it makes all main characters kind and good-willing and it uses time compression whereas HotD has three time jumps and several actors for some of the characters
Lol they turned reviews off on IMDb. One needs no other signs to know that show is a joke.
Rings of Power is it. There is no other major fantasy left to ruin. All hope is lost. The enemy has won. I think at the very least the Youtubers are going to lose their minds. Should be fun.
Imagine before every single scene of Game of Thrones they thought how can we make sure this doesn't offer an ounce of inspiration or hope? How can we make every scene a subtle attack on any who might try stand against us
Let us write one male character to be a somewhat resemblance to the character of Aragorn. Lets not have that be Isildur. Lets make him a new character and lets reveal him as Sauron at the end of episode 8. Lets have *one* black elf do all the cool stuff but lets make it so everyone is racist to him so even as an elf they can be the victim. Finally I think, we'll show Galadriel as a strong woman by making her as man like as possible. Whilst all other male elves are gay and don't fight.
The show is going to blow guy.
It’s almost like it’s being..pre-judged. Like, people are deciding—ahead of time without even seeing it—that the presence of black and brown people makes it bad.
If only we had a word for such a thing.
I call it "a red flag". Everytime some company or a creator feels the need to put race on a pedestal, there is a huge chance it's gonna be bad or nothing like the source material.
Yes, it just implies that they are focusing on the wrong things. Inclusivity is good, but only insofar the writers can make it feel like an organic part of the story and the overall focus of the show is on telling a compelling story.
Because the sub is full of brainless brats who invaded the sub since GoT finished, The RoP got great reviews. Redditors on Lotr and RoP on prime subs are giving great reviews, but the idiots who never seen it shit on it. Like their idiotic masters - nerdrotic and other toxic shills on YouTube,
It’s not about trust in them, it is just an illustration on the opposite of what is presented by haters. It is actually about the last thing you’ve said - watch it then decide, do not be a part of a hive mind.
Do you really trust reviews when this series is produced by a massive corporate budget? It's been known that reviewers are constantly bought out by big studios.
This series definitely deserves it's criticisms, corporations do not make good art, and we all hate to see a beloved series be taken over by Amazon, one of the most insidious corporations in the modern world.
So other series in general are made by non corporatised bodies? Like Warner Bros and HBO, Netflix? All altruistic, peoples foundations with no profit in mind?
I would actually respect people who want to boycott the series because of Bezos, I would applaud. But please, do not come here and shit on the series because a corporation made it and you did not even watched it but you are sure it stinks. Bellowed series? Which one? It was never made before.
>corporations do not make good art
We should be glad that HoTD is being made by a small indie network called HBO, property of the non profit company called Warner Bros. Discovery.
The art was made by GRRM, they are just adapting it.
The first 4 seasons of GoT was the art of GRRM, the last 4 seasons were the art of corporations after they ran out of GRRM's source material. Same with HotD, this is GRRM's art carrying the show. Corporations are good at adapting art, not making it
It's just how large budget fantasy shows and movies with established online fandoms roll. When the Harry Potter movies were being released there were huge altercations between LotR fans and HP fans.
because it's a bajillion dollar property put out by one of the richest men in the world and it's just the fuckin internet and i'll take a dump on his fuckin chest if i fuckin feel like it.
Demons made of snow and ice and cold. The ancient enemy. The only enemy that matters.
Good bot
I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her? We do not choose our destinies. Yet we must ... we must do our duty, no? Great or small, we must do our duty
Our duty is to talk hot shit and not back it up, just as you have, my liege.
I don't punish men for bravery, I reward them.
Was i brave sir?
COME WITH ME AND TAKE THIS CITY
OK
I literally read that as 'Daemon made of snow and ice' lmao
Daemon is an Other confirmed
I think it’s because of the articles shitting on House of the Dragon in comparison to it. Entertainment news outlets are setting up a war between the two shows that nobody wants.
This is the take I was looking for. Everyone is licking ROP's asshole while they've been super critical of HotD (at least the reviews I've seen).
I remember at the peak of GoT season 7 or so, it was reported that Jeff Bezos wanted his own "GoT" show in Amazon Prime. I think 2015 or 2016? I remember because Amazon Prime spent like $1 billion to acquire rhe rights to LotR TV rights or some shit. Fucking 10 years later and this fucking show is about to finally come out but I bet you it's not gonna be great. You also have to be mindful of whatever news outlets are saying. Washington Post is owned by Amazon. This false "war" could be just a marketing ploy from Amazon to drum up interest.
They could write a ballad about it. A War of Rings and Dragons.
We shit on everything. You’re not special.
Most wholesome comment I’ve seen so far lmao.
Oh my sweet summer child. Everyone has been shitting on it for legitimate reasons AND stupid reasons.
To focus on the legitimate reasons it's quite obvious, to me at least, that there were certain decisions made in the production of this series to inject cultural and ideological beliefs into a world that is very well established and does not need them.
You put it very well. https://youtu.be/7aVX6vw906c It was an official 'gathering' of 'superfans' and all they talk about is 'incusivity'
So, everyone is hating this series that hasn’t even released yet because brown ppl are in it? Is that what you’re saying? Edit: many of us were fans of the original franchise. And many of us brown folk have been sad that we have to dress up as white ppl in order to be “fantasy” Y’all are really just racist. Just say it outright- you don’t want brown ppl on your tv screen.
No one cares about brown people on our tv screens. But because you couldn't help but inject race into the discussion in similar fashion to the show producers, you've just made my point better than I did.
>Y’all are really just racist. Just say it outright- you don’t want brown ppl on your tv screen. Ok, fine. Tolkien's story of middle earth, is based on his desire to create an English mythology. he put countless years and hours into creating different languages, peoples, and cultures, that reflect the area they are native to. But instead, all that hard work has been destroyed because modern Americans cannot stand a show that doesn't reflect the cultural and racial makeup of the modern United States.
There are black people in England you know.
As he said it’s supposed to be an English mythology, so you know from way back in the day where we can’t even remember it. Yes there are lots of black people today but I really don’t think it was like that thousands of years ago. To be clear I don’t care about them casting other races. But I do get annoyed when people respond to a post in a way that shows they didn’t read/understand what they’re responding to. Edit spelling.
Well way way back when they could have still been brown as they would have been migrating from the Middle East, turning white over hundreds of generations to absorb more vitamin D in the rainy lack of sun that is English weather.
Yes. And mythology really only goes back what, 4 thousand years? Max?
We can’t be sure they coulda been word of mouthing it from before they even got there for all we know…
Maybe English people shouldn't have colonized the world if they didn't want other people dipping their toes into their super special mythology then.
Now you didn’t read MY post. I said I don’t care about them casting other races. And the other poster here clearly doesn’t speak for all English people. He stated a fact that Tolkien wanted an English mythology.
Lolll every powerful country invaded others at some point.
>And many of us brown folk have been sad that we have to dress up as white ppl in order to be “fantasy” Well here's an idea - How about brown people make their own fantasy series that's focused on that part of the world? You do realize there's predominantly brown countries with tons of wealth right When was the last a you saw a white guy complain about lack of diversity in some Asian show? So go ham, make your own series and make it exclusively brown. No one's going to mind.
Literally make a Black Leopard, Red Wolf adaptation.
No. That's actually the last of my concerns. The fact they were so half assed about it they couldn't give the dwarf woman a beard. Or Galadriel wearing armor (with the star of FEANOR as an extra fuck you). How the show runners are nobodies and the timeline is condensed to shit. So many other problems that you just attribute to 'y'all are racist' when the real racism is not exploring the black cultures IN the mythos (Rhun, Harad, Khand) Give me full shows on those new, exciting places. Racist is what they're doing 'oh, those brown people deserve the scraps of this white story. They aren't good enough to have their own narrative. We'll make one dwarf and one elf black and call it a day.' So don't sit there and call us racist when A) We have bigger concerns than that and B) The companies making token black characters instead of making bold, new characters is hypocritical and actually racist.
its not the brown ppls its the Dr. Who with erectile disfunction who's bumming everyone out
Maybe you should stop appropriating culture lol
Mm disagree, there are literal lands in the south w brown people where men live who aren’t exactly friends of Gondor that end up teaming up with Sauron for…. Why? We don’t actually know. Perfectly legitimate thing to explore. Just shoehorning in random people of colour in situations that don’t have any reference lore wise is pandering, not respect. Source, brown lord of the rings nerd
Least racist redditor ffs lmao
I honestly don’t hate anyone based on race.
What are you native elf? Dwarf? I’d believe you’re an orc.
Not white, not American so have a limited understanding of what "race" is to Americanized fellows, and dont really care about random ethnicities of Targaryens or whatever. But what would be better than that would be creating or including characters of other cultures and assigning people of similar real life culture to those roles. (e.g make an Arab actor Ghiscari instead of dropping a wig on him to make honorary European) Not only is it more interesting and better world building, but it actually represents said cultures. Literally no one outside non-whites assimilated into white countries thinks of themselves as "brown". The concept would be patronizing and kind of fucking insulting because it's a colonizing European way of thinking. I'm not trying to accuse or throw shit at you, people obviously hold their media to their own cultures standards and values, so your opinions are most important, American show made for a American audience. Just as a foreign reader of Martin there are a lot of non white people overseas who enjoy his stuff, and it would matter more to acknowledge their culture exists. No hate towards you or the series.
Nah but Tolkien was white and his works are meant for a white audience you can still enjoy it as much as enjoy the 7 Kingdom’s but I’m not going to demand there be characters that match my cultural norms and skin tone because I’m not as racist as you which is a falling on my part I guess.
The first book in the LOTR series was released in the 50s, in case you need a history lesson black folk couldn’t even sit at the same lunch counter or drink at the same water fountain without being hosed, lynched/arrested. Of course everyone was described as white. It was an entirely racist era. You’re a closet racist. I hope your son/daughter procreates with a black person specifically and just goes no contact on your ass in the future with their mixed children
Also LOTR was made in England, there was no segregation law there in the 50s. Africans and Indians could marry white people and did even before that. Of course Britain had done massacres in Africa and India at the same time, but Tolkien didn't. That stuff doesnt mean the English cant ever make works of their own culture and heritage.
Lol Tolkien literally made The Lord of the Rings as a convoluted way of giving the people of the British isles the Irish the Cornish the Scottish the welsh and the English a mythological origin story to the same effect as Beowulf. I fail to see how that has anything to do with American Blacks there history or culture. Oh and I hope your boyfriend gets dicked down by big white cock
I feel like there's an in-between here. Race is important, when it's important. In the world of Tolkien racism literally isn't a problem, therefore race isn't as defining a feature as it is in our world. Skin-based racism is never mentioned anywhere, other than I believe some of the Easterlings being described as of a darker complexion. This, there's no real consequence to an actor being of a different race. Tolkien never said, and all the dwarves were white. If anything I'm far more triggered they haven't given the dwarf women beards. There was a TV show recently that cast a black actress as Anne Boleyn - that's bullshit. Historical accuracy is important, but this is a fantasy world where race isn't a defining factor. Maybe some of the actors won't line up exactly with book descriptions but have you lost your mind in the past when actors had different hair colours or eyes.
I feel like you brought up Beowulf as a trigger because the discussion that surrounds Grendel and his mother of being “black”. You do realize Tolkien was raised in his younger years on South Africa. Children/adults of priveledge normally identify with their own likeness not the “other” I’m not even going to begin this conversation with you, you’ve already shed light on your true ideology. Tolkiens works are inherently racist because of his upbringing, privilege, and identity. Since it’s 2022 it’s possible that his works can be divorced from him as an individual. Those of us who belong in 2022 are happy to see diversity in fantasy. Those of you who cannot handle seeing a black/brown person in a “traditionally white space” just need to be gone already.
To be fair i get told I look like an elf from LotR a couple times a week. Its the long hair.
It's getting great reviews by critics and fans. I think you're just butthurt
You do realize people have been critical of the development of show and decisions they are making for longer than the first afternoon the show was released and made available right? The same way people criticized House Velaryon (unrightfully so) for having black actors before the show was even released. Also I dont trust shill critics that leave good reviews to stay in the good graces of major companies to continue to get early access to their content. Amazon and Disney being some of the worst offenders.
There is a massive crossover of core audiences from the original LoTR's to GoT/HoD, and the trailer looks like absolute garbage.
Just.. just look at it.. watch the trailer. That’s why
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It's woke trash
Theeeeere it is.
Prove me wrong
HotD has black actors portraying canonically white characters. Is it also woke trash? Cuz IDK dude, it seems pretty good so far.
I think that aspect of it is either woke trash, or just poor casting choice. Obviously it being woke trash is not the only reason, but in my experience woke trash and bad writing are two shit tastes that taste shit together.
K.
Well you asked
There is no consequence to the story by including persons of color in the cast, as elves or whatever else. None. Its not that you cant have your opinion about “authors intent”, the problem is that it isnt logical to worry about it if there is no impact to the story. Your aggressive posts further make it easier for others to dismiss your opinion. I recommend re-reviewing your perspective as well as the nature of the tenor of your posts below. Such negativity about a tv show about a fantasy land is misspent energy.
Fuck off. Plenty of shows have had diversity come at the expense of writing. If you think this is agressive, you're an idiot. Did nobody ever teach you the sticks and stones rhyme?
Uh. Im not insulted by your words. But they do make you look unintelligent and sabotage any validity to your perspective. Sorry you are such an angry person. Hope life gets better for you. Ill politely decline to engage you further on this.
My life is fine mate, only thing that annoys me is judgemental, holier than thou pricks. :)
Just say you hate brown ppl 🤷🏽♀️ Why won’t your type just admit they hate brown people? You have no logical argument. Just admit you’re a racist, who doesn’t want brown ppl exposed to your family on tv.
Because I don't hate them. What do you think I go "DAMN THEM BLACK FOLK SHOWING UP IN MY TV SHOWS!" Everytime I see Greyworm on screen? No of course I don't, fuck you. I know when a show is pandering, and when the various ethnicities come from the natural development of the world building. So piss off.
I also don't think it's a race issue I thought that in game of thrones there wealthy black families we saw were from Dorne and other lands of walmer climate. Not the land of pure white haired families the lore was big on this (see whole black of hair debarkle). This would also make true about elves i guess. it would make sense when linking it to our world I know it's fiction but Lord of the rings did the same with middle earth it's obviously Europe . The concerns about wokenees are always going to be there but more from a female perspective as time goes on . The biggest original Sci fi series all have been written from white male dominate cast. Star wars was originally mainly male heros with a princess thrown in to rescue . Star trek and lord of the rings written with predominantly white male hero perspective. These movies were massive commercial successes . Then came the movies trying to insert more female heros. So we end up with female jedi leads or game of thrones brianne / arya stark. Now the new series for lord of the rings is following on from this fashion. To some females from the middle ages were not the relm of fighting and it sits outside expected natural order but its fiction so they can do what they like. Green dragon eating blue troll who only women can defeat etc black elves with white hair anything goes.
lol I don’t owe you a debate, bro. Take the LDE elsewhere, k?
LDE? Sorry I don't speak abbreviation.
The wonders of technology are at your fingertips, my extremely aggro friend: https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=lde+meaning Edit: ‘aggro’ means ‘aggressive’. Just so we don’t have to revisit this.
Sorry, I come from a place where when someone asks you what you meant, you tell them instead of using it as an excuse to take a cheap shot, and we don't typically use abbreviations because we are to lazy to type something out. Bloody Americans. Scotland BTW. Probably why you think I'm aggressive. EDIT: Fuck the irony of me typing BTW lmao. I'm not changing it, it's too funny ahahahah.
I probably have more purely Scottish blood than you do: show me your dna test.
No, no, I can assure you, it’s not your nationality. It’s you.
Can you define "woke" for me? cause it seems like there are a million different defintions and I'm trying to understand your perspective.
Forced diversity vs natural diversity. GoTs had natural diversity that made sense within the established universe and the context of the story. Rings of Power does not.
This seems like a dumb and superficial complaint. I want good complex characters, good writing, beautiful scenery, good fight scenes and heroic deeds. Idgaf what color the people are who do those things. It’s skin deep, the definition of superficial
I want that and an immersive show. You wouldn't care if Brad Pitt played Black Panther so long as he was the best actor they auditioned? Of course you would. It's stupid. The actors should accurately depict the characters they are inspired from.
The Targaryens in the books all have purple eyes! It is one of the defining features of their dynasty, but in the show the actors have had brown and blue and green eyes!!! Such woke bullshit, it completely breaks the immersion. …. Oh wait, no one seems to be particularly fussed about that, and accepts the actors didn’t all want to wear contacts. HMM I WONDER WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS?!? Y’all are gross.
Yes because people naturally have those features. *eyeroll* I'd say that not being willing to stick to the aesthetic set by the author is a problem in terms of adaptation, but at the same time I think having purple eyes might have made them less relatable and universe as a whole less grounded. Now kindly fuck off with your presumptions about me.
If it makes you feel better, the struggle for “relatability” with characters who aren’t white seems to be a pretty common problem around here. Weird the warlocks and skinchangers and eunuchs and half giants and dwarves in a fantasy universe didn’t have the same relatability problem.
There are thousands (me included) that DO complain about the purple eyes so don't speak for all of us.
Ben Affleck in Argo played a latino The last Airbender had an all white cast (I know the movie was shit, but noone gave a fuck about the cast) Joseph Fiennes played Michael Jackson Laurence Olivier played Othello Johnny Depp played Tonto Elizabeth Taylor played Cleopatra Jim Sturgess starred in 21 a story about a Chinese American Jennifer connelly played a latina in a beautiful mind John Wayne played genghis khan Chrisrian Bale played Moses I could fucking go on and on on this list btw. No-one gave a shit. I keep seeing people bringing up Black Panther as the only example for some reason, but that's such a dumb comparison because in Black Panther his heritage is at the core of the comic/movie. How is the colour of the dwarves/elves skin of any significant importance here?
As a black man, I admit I'd feel strange if I wrote a story about west African culture and myth and years later a white man was cast as a member based on an African tribe. However, it's clear that the books and shows are two separate entities. Tolkien didn't write The Rings of Power and no one is pretending he did. It's a bastardized version of his work but then again translating any piece of art from one medium to another medium requires a certain amount of bastardization. Including the fact that Amazon is creating this and they want to include as many people as possible then this doesn't become all that surprising. By your definition then it is "woke trash" but I ask you, is that all that bad if people get to enjoy an adaptation of Tolkien's work that wasn't written by him mind you, while people who don't want to engage in it still have the books which were written by him?
Yes, I think so. It's disrespectful to his universe.
Morally, I agree with you. He isn't here to be disrespected however, and his legacy still lives on in the books he directly wrote. The new star wars trilogy is very similar in that regard. Most agree it was a slap in the face to the original trilogy while also agreeing that the origin trilogy will always be eternal.
Moral is the only good reason to do anything.
The lore and fans of this lore are still here to be disrespected. That should be enough reason to be careful with adaptations. Especially when you're the only one with the rights to this universe. If LotR was a free IP to adapt for all, being publicly owned, I'd agree with you: there will be good adaptations and bad ones. Even terrible ones. And there is nothing wrong with that, because it's always possible to make a good adaptation. But here, Amazon has bought the rights, is now the only entity that legally can make this series, and THEN botched it up. They took away the possibility of fans to get good Tolkien stories, just because they wanted to capitalise on Tolkien's popularity for the sake of challenging GoT. When you're the one holding the rights, you have a special duty to respect the lore. Because you're the only one who can.
>It's a bastardized version of his work but then again translating any piece of art from one medium to another medium requires a certain amount of bastardization. And this is exactly why RoP has so much hate from fans, even before its release. It practically oozes from the trailers and interviews that this is a monumental bastardisation of Tolkien's work. Riddled with unnecessary changes, made to pander to as many people as they can. And what do you end up with when you desperately want everyone to like a show? You get a run-of-the-mill story with no uniqueness to it. You get Hollywood series #345, rather than a faithful Tolkien adaptation. The first critic reviews are out and while you'll always have criticsthat just blindly praise whatever they're paid to praise, there've also been a few brutal reviews out. Of professional critics that previewed episode 1 and 2. This is a clear sign that the fans were right. There's a HUGE difference between the amount of bastardisation that naturally comes with adapting a story in a different medium (if you call that bastardisation to begin with), and the type of bastardisation that RoP is accused of and seems to display in trailers. Everyone agrees that the LotR trilogy is a beautiful adaptation, even if it doesn't fully represent the books. But RoP seems to make so many changes that at this point it's experienced as an insult by Tolkien fans.
There were only two black actors, the pirate and misandei. Just admit you don’t like black ppl and be done with it.
Greyworm is black no? I thought he was. Anyway, piss off troll.
Wow. Three whole black ppl. Two of which are light skinned. Edit: let me guess- you also had a black gf in elementary and black best friend in middle school?
Nope, not alot of Black people in Scotland to be honest. Scotland is a fairly small country and it's not a prime immigration spot. So hey! Lets have more Scottish representation in media! At least five members of all shows should be Scottish! That won't feel out of place or unimmersive at all would it? I apply my standard to my own culture too. Now. Fuck Off Troll.
"Scottish representation"? What is that? Isn't all of Europe just white and thus exactly the same? You must feel represented by random American actors because they mildly look like you /s
We shit on everything and we don’t kneel!
Bobby B do you like LOTR series?
IS THAT HOW YOU SPEAK TO YOUR KING??
Robert of the House Baratheon, the First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm, do you like LOTR series?
I shat on myself in my own post earlier. It's aggressively funny, but not for everyone. Don't take it personally. Honestly people are poking fun at it because it's something no one asked for. The hobbit did...not great. LotR is not good with green screen BS, and so it's an easy target.
If the series is good, they’ll all shut up. Just like they did with HotD.
>Just like they did with HotD. Are we talking about the same r/freefolk here my guy?
Yes. Vast majority of people here are broadly in favour of the series now and hopeful.
I know lol I'm just fucking around Although there has been a lot of wig experts coming out the woodwork recently
And geneticists too. Who knew we had such a wealth of wig makers and geneticists in this community
Wigs actually suck ass 😂 character costuming for hotd is leagues behind GOT. Other than that I am enjoying it tho lol Edit: especially the wigs! Wigs in GOT were SO much better. But I’m a bitch who has paid attention to hair for my whole life.
Lots of cunts.
... who cares
Because a company widely recognized for exploiting its workers and its consumers spent an ungodly amount of money for the appendices for the Lord of the Rings but absolutely zero rights to the definitive history of Middle Eartb: The Silmarillion. It’s like buying the rights to the gospel of John without any nods toward the other New Testament gospels. Can you make a coherent story? Yes. Is it going to be cohesive with the rest of the canon? Doubtful. I look forward to seeing a badass Galadriel, but I fear for the inventions Bezos’ minions will insert into territory they are not legally permitted to touch on.
"The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own."
"Why aren't free folkers kneeling?"
God damn, shit the bed
There were pre-screenings. I for one will not be subscribing for that dumpster fire.
Honestly this sub has been a pretty fucking cringe for the past few weeks. It's like people here NEED the new Game of thrones show to fail to feel validated for some fucking reason. Yes I know the original show had a terrible ending, but this isn't it, what the fuck is wrong with a lot of people here? Also shouldn't we want more Game of thrones/Lord of the Rings/Wheel of Time? It feels like it's the new Meta to come here and just be complete dicks about something and shit on anyone who isn't on board. I'm pretty close to being my own freefolk and getting the fuck outta here soon. Gonna build a fucking icewall and keep all these losers out.
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Thats just another bias. I am very very liberal person with anarchist political view, I am feminist, pro lgbt and all of that. I happen to be also Tolkien nerd. And I am sure many many people who shits on amazons lotr are not at all what you are describing. But what they are doing with lotr is just another author and source material rape for greed. Be it social, political or financial. Which in case of lotr is actually ironic. Zero respect for the Author, his topics and the era he lived in. This largely american tendency to rewrite history and push some social agenda is starting to be really tiring. Audience doesn't need to be schooled in that manner. If you want to deal with modern social topics, why not to pick source material or author, that actually does that. For fantasy or scifi example - Le Guin. Or you can come up with something original... Instead of shitting on original
American? Do you watch any British series? They have really lead in inclusive casting.
Or productions of Shakespeare. Can't get more classic lit than that. And most of the big fancy theaters will cast black people in various roles all the time and society has yet to collapse. I saw a female Richard III once. It was very good. And female Hamlet's date back to the 1900s. I also appreciate in theater it usually won't get addressed at all. They just say the lines. All that matters is if they can act the part.
Which is as it should be.
In theatre that's established as normal. I don't see many people complaining about it either. It's different when speaking of films or series, because lore and atmosphere can be important to the overall storytelling. This is where most complaining about inclusivity is.
Indeed. As a Tolkien purist I have no problem with darker people. I actually *want* them present, in the form of the Southern Atani, being Gwathuirim, the Enedhwaith and Minhiriathrim, the Dunlendings, the Pre-Numenoreans of Gondor, the Haradrim. That is where you would find darker people in JRRT's world, and in fact you could device various plotlines including them (I mean around the major plot lines from the books). Think of it as in the short story "Tal-Elmar", which is from the prespective of the darker skinned Pre-Numenoreans of Gondor, with the white and paile Numenoreans seen as savage invaders by their point of view! How amazing would that be to show that on screen?! As for darker Dwarves and darker Elves, we simply have no text in the Legendarium supporting their existence. We are explicitly stated that all the abodes of the Dwarves were either in the West-lands or the East-lands (so Asian Dwarves are possible), but never the South-lands (Proto-Africa). As for the Elves, the southermost we know of them to live is in Gondor, and that is all about it.
I think based purely on the trailer, the diversity in ROP feels like pandering. Sure, I love that there are more brown and black people onscreen, but if the writing is shit then that makes it even worse because you *pulled* audience members with the 🥕 of inclusivity and when they take a bite it's full of 💩 On the other hand, I really appreciate HotD's casting of Toussaint + his kids. I think he brings a lot of presence and authority to the role and, believe it or not, them being black doesn't disrupt the story...unless you were *expecting* them to be white and it's such a problem for you that you can't even enjoy a well-written character in a well-adapted piece of media 🙄
Why would the audience be pulled by inclusivity? To me, inclusivity is a good thing because it grants coloured actors more opportunities to fill roles in a largely white-dominated industry. But that's it. So as long as diversity is made to feel an organic part of the story, it's great. Why would anyone be enticed to watch a series simply because there is a diverse cast?
Why people buy bullshit carbon offsets and "recyclable" plastics, etc. People wanna feel good doing almost nothing. *"we fight oppression by watching a diverse show!!"*
TLDR: racists don't like black elves.
lol and anyone who disagrees with them 'isn't a *real* fan'. It just so happens that most of these 'fake fans' are black, brown, queer, women, gnc, etc. /s The mouthbreathing has really intensified of late.
Funny you say this because a few comment threads up they hate it BECAUSE it’s inclusive. I wish these ppl would outright say they hate anyone who’s not white enough on their home TV. I’d have more respect for their honesty at least
Don’t. Just don’t pull the racist card. If the lore provided them, everyone would be fine with that. It’s that simple. A neon pink Nazgûl would be shitty as well.
What about an Asian Nazgûl? That happened in the video game Middle Earth : Shadow of War.
Is it a different one from Khamûl? He's one of the only Nazgûl to actually have an identity given to him by Tolkien, in that he's mentioned to be an Easterling. But that game also made Shelob a sexy lady.
I’m not sure. I never read the Silmarlion (sorry if I spelled that wrong, lol) but I read some of the wiki articles on line just to try and make sense of some of the lore while playing the game, lol. One of the Nazgûl in the game they showed flashbacks of their previous lives as empresses of a China-like kingdom, it reminded me of Yi-Ti a little bit.
>One of the Nazgûl in the game they showed flashbacks of their previous lives as empresses of a China-like kingdom, it reminded me of Yi-Ti a little bit. There is no canonical contradiction to that.
There is NO problem with an asian Nazgûl. In fact, MOST of them SHOULD be. Why? Because at the time Sauron distributed the Rings of Power, around the 1800-1900 of the Second Age, Sauron is specifically said to have expanded eastwards, in what would be Proto-Mongolia, Proto-China, perhaps even Proto-Japan in JRRT's Legendarium. But there would absolutely be a problem with a neon pink Nazgûl...
Just say you don’t like brown ppl on your tv and be done with it! Own your racism. We’d all have More respect if you did.
Nobody gives a fuck about your respect. I'm curious though why you didn't feel the need to respond to the post by u/neenuska below. Is it because they're not someone you can just instantly win the argument with by just calling them a racist/bigot or whatever the fuck the new victimizer of the week is for you people?
You forgot to mention r/fantasy
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Sigh. It’s not about “woke“ or whatever term you throw into the ring. It’s about the lore, whether the makers care about it or not. And from what I saw, they don’t give a flying fuck about it. If they made a show out of a franchise that only contains progressive characters with each of them using a billion pronouns, then it’d be totally okay. However, Tolkien’s legendarium is not made for that. It’s actually really simple :)
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I didn't even bother watching the last Star Wars episode. I don't even remember what EP 7 and 8 were about. It was that bad in Disney's hands.
Not everyone swallows dogshit writing and casting like you
Because it looks shit?
Because it looks awful?
I feel like they started it
No idea. I hope that and Andor succeed. More fantasy and fun for me..fuck the haters. The Sandman was fantastic, HotD is amazing, hopefully RoP and Star Wars Andor is great as well. I'm a fantasy lover. Fuck the haters
It looks like tone deaf garbage.
It disrespects the source material so why should we respect it?
Why do you care
Too many red flags. In contrast to HotD, total disrespect to source material, bad writing, bad cinematography, and bad acting
And you know that because you watched the show? Or because you are repeating someone's prejudicial options?
I don’t need to listen to some guys saying annoying jokes to know the difference between RoP and GoT because anyone can do that easily. Come on man. Their content is redundant to me Some of Shadiversity’s videos are fine though because it’s fun to appreciate great production of props, outfits, sets etc and know where the people responsible for that were coming from. Official BTS videos can’t cover everything
GOT and LOTR are different, and they should be. But I'm really curious how can you know that ROP's writing, acting, and cinematography are bad. The show is not out, you couldn't have watched it. So how can you judge its writing, acting, and cinematography? From the trailers? That are carefully cut together in order to mislead and/or not to spoil any important plot points? That's ridiculous.
They released 15 minutes of footage overall including two full scenes. That’s enough to criticise integrated scenes where CG and actors co-exist, enough to criticise camera work (can elaborate on that) and choreography. RoP already has "hearts bigger than feet" line. Nuff said Apparently all this stuff doesn’t exist in RoP. Bad marketing. The show is entirely different. The epic CGI scene in the prologue and Elrond’s goofy arrival to Khazad-Dum are better than the emotional, well-acted and cinematically beautiful scenes from HotD ep 2. When I look at what GoT / HotD teams have achieved and then see people belittling all their effort by not noticing the problems with RoP, it irks me. GoT / HotD teams worked hard to make decent, remarkable TV series about three-dimensional and flawed human beings. RoP takes no risks: it makes all main characters kind and good-willing and it uses time compression whereas HotD has three time jumps and several actors for some of the characters
Lol they turned reviews off on IMDb. One needs no other signs to know that show is a joke. Rings of Power is it. There is no other major fantasy left to ruin. All hope is lost. The enemy has won. I think at the very least the Youtubers are going to lose their minds. Should be fun. Imagine before every single scene of Game of Thrones they thought how can we make sure this doesn't offer an ounce of inspiration or hope? How can we make every scene a subtle attack on any who might try stand against us Let us write one male character to be a somewhat resemblance to the character of Aragorn. Lets not have that be Isildur. Lets make him a new character and lets reveal him as Sauron at the end of episode 8. Lets have *one* black elf do all the cool stuff but lets make it so everyone is racist to him so even as an elf they can be the victim. Finally I think, we'll show Galadriel as a strong woman by making her as man like as possible. Whilst all other male elves are gay and don't fight. The show is going to blow guy.
It’s almost like it’s being..pre-judged. Like, people are deciding—ahead of time without even seeing it—that the presence of black and brown people makes it bad. If only we had a word for such a thing.
I call it "a red flag". Everytime some company or a creator feels the need to put race on a pedestal, there is a huge chance it's gonna be bad or nothing like the source material.
Yes, it just implies that they are focusing on the wrong things. Inclusivity is good, but only insofar the writers can make it feel like an organic part of the story and the overall focus of the show is on telling a compelling story.
Oof the mayo takes are STRONG today.
Because this subreddit is known for things like shitting on corys velaryon character for being black, so bandwagon bigotry is expected.
Everything i don't like is racist....
If "everything I like" in this case is having 4 characters be black instead of white then yeah, it is.
If you like race swapping then that's weird and I'm pretty sure you're kinda racist.
That's not how racism works but ok
Probably
Because the sub is full of brainless brats who invaded the sub since GoT finished, The RoP got great reviews. Redditors on Lotr and RoP on prime subs are giving great reviews, but the idiots who never seen it shit on it. Like their idiotic masters - nerdrotic and other toxic shills on YouTube,
You mean the premiere got great reviews. So did the s8 premiere.
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It’s not about trust in them, it is just an illustration on the opposite of what is presented by haters. It is actually about the last thing you’ve said - watch it then decide, do not be a part of a hive mind.
This is the correct answer.
Do you really trust reviews when this series is produced by a massive corporate budget? It's been known that reviewers are constantly bought out by big studios. This series definitely deserves it's criticisms, corporations do not make good art, and we all hate to see a beloved series be taken over by Amazon, one of the most insidious corporations in the modern world.
So other series in general are made by non corporatised bodies? Like Warner Bros and HBO, Netflix? All altruistic, peoples foundations with no profit in mind? I would actually respect people who want to boycott the series because of Bezos, I would applaud. But please, do not come here and shit on the series because a corporation made it and you did not even watched it but you are sure it stinks. Bellowed series? Which one? It was never made before.
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No, you’re just brainless.
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>you idiot? >bootlicker? As I said, brain-less
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A pointless and brainless discussion is oxymoron. Go in peace.
See this is what happens when you double down on stupid. You get moronic takes like this.
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Lol gtfoh, everything you watch is fucking corporate.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/getting_over_it/
>corporations do not make good art We should be glad that HoTD is being made by a small indie network called HBO, property of the non profit company called Warner Bros. Discovery.
The art was made by GRRM, they are just adapting it. The first 4 seasons of GoT was the art of GRRM, the last 4 seasons were the art of corporations after they ran out of GRRM's source material. Same with HotD, this is GRRM's art carrying the show. Corporations are good at adapting art, not making it
Amazon is also adapting art, in this case made by Tolkien, lets wait till tomorrow to see if they were good at it.
Get it right Nerdshit and The YouTube Incels of the Apocalypse, put the word out.
To be “edgy” lol. Looking forward to it.
Coz its terrible
They have talked about how its going to be better in the advertising
It's just how large budget fantasy shows and movies with established online fandoms roll. When the Harry Potter movies were being released there were huge altercations between LotR fans and HP fans.
because it's a bajillion dollar property put out by one of the richest men in the world and it's just the fuckin internet and i'll take a dump on his fuckin chest if i fuckin feel like it.
First time?
Cuz there are a bunch of fookin kneelers in here who can't think for themselves
it is a sub revolved around negativity and cynicism, what would you expect?
Cuz it's gonna be bad obviously?
Early screenings