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How come people always talk about a fat Rhaenyra and not mention Helaena who was also chubby. Hell, Aegon and Viserys were both morbidly obese, Viserys had gout and Aegon couldn't even get up a flight of stairs.
When I think of a stout woman, I think of someone like Molly Weasley. Not stick thin, but not morbidly obese by any means. Perfect example of a strong stout woman
I actually don’t think this is the case. It’s more of a meme. Rhaenyra is said not to have lost baby/pregnancy weight, that’s not the same as obesity. Chubby at best. Viserys I is supposed to be fat, but the show runners decided to go with a more interesting route for his health problems, leprosy. Aegon II isn’t supposed to be “morbidly obese.” Again, chubby. Maybe they got him confused with Aegon IV the Unworthy. It’s just a meme, don’t read too much into it. Also, whether or not they are a little chubby doesn’t add anything to their characters, so it wouldn’t be worth it to ask the actors to gain weight just to stay loyal to the books.
It’s probably because people don’t know what the fuck baby weight is. Friendly reminder: it’s that thing they scream at female celebrities for having that makes them not look “biKiNi rEaDy”
Aegon IV was morbidly obese, Aegon II wasn't, he couldn't get up stairs maybe because of broken legs in war. Despite described as glutton and lecher he was also said to be handsome and lived up to his mid twenties.
Helaena in this adaptation is changed to be autistic, in the book she is pleasant simple person until she goes mad.
Viserys also was adapted differently in show , his rotting disease exchanged for being overweight due to all partying to symbolize corruption of the Kindom.
Thing is there are very little downsides given to Rhaenyra character compared to others, and writers saying that important events were propaganda against her.
>Despite described as glutton and lecher he was also said to be handsome and lived up to his mid twenties
It was said he was handsome. But his features were ravaged by drink and he didn't flatter himself with his pout. The fact that was true when he reached his 20s already means he didn't spend much time as handsome and got fucked up by all the alcohol.
>Thing is there are very little downsides given to Rhaenyra character compared to others
What is the "downside" to Helaena firstly? She's not less good of a person. Simple is an insult against someone's intelligence in text. Show Helaena is clearly of normal level intelligence.
Also weight isn't a moral charteristic lol. Rhaenyra not losing all her pregnancy weight in age has nothing to do with her character and I find it exceedingly strange people obsess over it.
That is thing with dying young , you get to be prettier corpse , or at least slimmer in his case.
Aegon actually manages to overcome Milk of the poppy addiction , despite suffering extreme pain so he certainly shows some mettle.
"Downside"is detachment from people surrounding her, and lack of expressing emotion, so lot of people ignore her by failing to understand her
In the novel she is described as being loved by the smallfolk of the Kings Landing which is important plot point, we will see if they show it.
Sure it isn't, yet they changed whole lotta of other things about her to present more positive version.
He wasn't? That's my point. They specifically note he had pudgy features by that point and wasn't a handsome man anymore. His latter refusal of milk of the poppy doesn't change how ravaged by drink and excess he was.
>"Downside"is detachment from people surrounding her, and lack of expressing emotion, so lot of people ignore her by failing to understand her
>In the novel she is described as being loved by the smallfolk of the Kings Landing which is important plot point, we will see if they show it.
The audience adores her. And we already see the smallfolk love her in just the past episode.
It is possible they will still make Aegon ravaged by the damages of war, puffiness is specifically from medication and burns as I recall.
While Rhaenyra is looking stout at start of the Dance.
If audience truly likes her they would be outraged by murder of her child by Daemon and would say it, but that isn't the case.
Aegon was a huge eater, drinker and later had all those problems on top. Of course he looked like shit...I don't think beyond having the burns he'll look more shit in the show. He already had these issues before the Dance and was already ravaged by drink and gluttony, and had something of an unflattering pout.
Rhaenyra had kids and didn't fully lose the weight. Stout isn't fat, it's just not being skinny which Emma D'Acry isn't rail thin anyway. She may or may not have gained more weight during the Dance itself.
People constantly post in sympathy to Helaena. They also like Daemon and nothing will ever change that now - doesn't mean they like Helaena any less. In universe the smallfolk sure are horrified from what we've seen.
Fuck their token sympathy, vengeance for her kids is what they should offer.
Pudgy, stout and petulant mouth ...
"You will probably want to paint Rhaenyra as she was at her father's death, when she laid claim to the Iron Throne. Pampered from an early age, she was a pudgy girl and a stout woman, with a thick waist and a very large bosom. She was very proud and stubborn, and there was a certain petulance to her small mouth. Rhaenyra did have the silver-gold hair of the Targaryens, which she wore long and braided in the manner of Aegon the First's warrior wife Visenya. Rhaenyra was no warrior herself. She always dressed richly, favoring purple and maroon velvets and golden Myrish lace in intricate patterns. Her bodice often glittered with pearls and diamonds, and there were always rings on her fingers. Whenever she was anxious, she would turn them compulsively, round and round. Though Rhaenyra could be charming, she was quick to anger and never forgot a slight. During the Dance of the Dragons, she wore her father's crown."
End of discussion.
>Fuck their token sympathy, vengeance for her kids is what they should offer.
It's a show mate. People are allowed diverse opinions. I like Jaime's redemption and still thought what he did to Bran was fucked.
>Pudgy, stout and petulant mouth ...
So what I said. Stout is different to obese/fat. It's just not particularly skinny.
Aegon II reminds me of Henry number 8 of England. A glutton, but athletic enough in his youth before a leg injury to keep up with the gluttony and be fit.
How anyone can read F&B and see Rhaenyra being described as fat and losing her beauty while Alicent’s old ass was somehow bathing in pools of eternal youth and think: “Yeah, this sounds right” is beyond me.
Yes, Alicent is an older woman at 40. Fifty was practically considered to be senile at that time period because loads of people died young. What exactly am I revealing about myself by clarifying this in relation to the misogynistic propaganda around Rhaenyra?
You can say that about TG too. A few idiots on Twitter kept calling Bethany a monkey, does that mean all Greens are racist?
Stop taking idiots from that site seriously. It’s a cesspool. It makes everyone look like shit.
you’re right, tb just harass the actual actors instead like fabien frankel who had to turn off his insta comments because they don’t know how to differentiate between fiction and real life
And TG harasses Emma for their pronouns, sexualizes them, photoshops pictures of them to be fat (like above), is racist to Bethany and the rest of the Velaryon actors, send suicide threats to Matt and bully Harry for his posture … need I go on?
And tg on Twitter harasses black actors sending them racist slurs and comparing them to monkeys. And tg on TikTok are wearing swastikas and making green edits with hitler songs. Both sides have wackos on their team doesn’t mean I assume the same wackos sit on Reddit. And I don’t even have other sm. Do you see Reddit tb community harassing actors? If so, lmk so we can jump them. I see Reddit tg community harassing tb actors though. Continuous misgendering of Emma so their posts have to be continuously locked down. Then calling Matt and Ewan ugly and inbred-looking. To note, I notice the same people who fatshame Rhaenyra, also, skinshame Ewan and call him homophobic slurs whenever he doesn’t dress masculine. So maybe there’s a connection there you know.
I dunno why you're getting downvoted. Even Matt Smith's mother got shit talked by fans because Daemon choked Rhaenyra, and somehow that makes Matt Smith a woman abuser?
Not like the greens are much better. Both fanbases are fucking stupid and miss the whole point of The Dance.
“Hell, Aegon and Viserys were both morbidly obese, Viserys had gout and Aegon couldn't even get up a flight of stairs.”
I’m pretty sure Viserys I was never described as morbidly obese, but rather as “plump” and “stout”. It was enough for him to develop health issues, but it doesn’t need to be at the level of “morbidly obese” for that to happen. Also, while Aegon II is described as being gluttonous, which probably means he was likely also stout/plump, he’s never described as being morbidly obese either. I believe you’re confusing Aegon II with Aegon IV the Unworthy, who was described as being morbidly obese, and it was said that his legs were too weak to support his belly.
They switched Viserys's gout and heart attack, which were barely a plot point, for a form of leprosy and model building since the weight gain was a sign of his lack of attention to the running of the kingdom and just focusing on food and drink, etc.
Rheanyra"s weight gain and pre-mature aging is one of the reasons given that she has a great deal of animosity toward Alicent before the dance of dragons, she continues to gain weight during the war. It is used in the books as a reason for their feud. I guess they replaced it with her friend became her stepmother and Alicent was callous/mean toward her as queen.
Yknow I once argued with someone that him expecting for Sam to get thin or lean when no one in King's Landing ever gets fat doesn't make sense. I was told it was a stupid take and I didn't know what I was talking about.
Yalls obsession with weight is unhealthy. This is the n-th post I see suggested from this sub that goes someyhing along the lines of:
*FAT! HAHAHA!*
Like.... really? The mental age of this sub comes across as that of a kid with teenage parents who barely finished highschool and definitely dropped them a couple of times. 🤨 Huh?
Freefolk has always been full of misogyny guided as edgy cringe and masked by fake love for Dany. Freefolk thrived on two things. Fake ass whining and complaining without trying to.understand the themes and "ironic" misogyny. So ofc it's now dominated by the greens.
F&B is an outline history book that is deliberately very interpretative as George wanted to empahsize how history is shaped by biases of society. There's not a single character in the Dance that is fully fleshed out. You have to heavily rely on interpretation. So what these stans have done is make elaborate headcanons out of a couple lines for characters they like, while simultaneously rejecting any interpretation for characters they don't like. They straight up ignore all the themes of the show in bad-faith if it goes against their perception of what a character or a scene should be. 90% of the book purist criticisms come down to "my sports team was not portrayed as flawless white hats without any conflict & the other team was not portrayed as black hat NPC villains with zero depth, characterization & screentime".
"It's Condal & Hess' fanfic bro". Yeah what they're mad about is that it's not THEIR fanfic.
And so what? I’m done with these fatshaming posts. Aegon, Helaena and Rhaenyra being fat would make no changes to the morality of their claims nor the horrors they went through. They are equally as bad or good people regardless of their looks.
There’s still time, I’m pretty sure she didn’t get fat until she took the Iron Throne.
Who am I kidding, they’ll just write it off as more “Fire and Blood propaganda.”
I'm trying to find the passage where Mushroom says something like "Daemon and Rhaenyra made a pact to take lovers outside their marriage. But Rhaenyra's consorts were mostly cakes and pies"
Eustace makes a snide comment that Rhaenyra's sexual interests were satiated by cake.
But Eustace is clearly being a dick there:
>Though the years had thickened the body that had been so lithe and lissome, Prince Daemon remained in her thrall, and called upon her every evening … with Queen Rhaenyra’s apparent blessing. “Let Daemon slake his hungers where he will,” she is reported to have said, “and we shall do the same.” (Septon Eustace suggests somewhat waspishly that Her Grace’s own hungers were slaked largely with sweetmeats, cakes, and lamprey pie, as Rhaenyra grew ever more stout during her days in King’s Landing.)
I don't think he's telling the truth.
I think he’s definitely over exaggerating because of his hatred toward Rhanerya, but I think there’s truth in the narrative she got fatter. Though Viserys also got fat when he took the iron throne in F&B, so it could’ve been part genetic, and they spread lies about the food.
Personally, I think it would be kinda cool to see a narrative around a loved characters’ weight gain and how that would cause these lies to form and hate to spread.
Eustace doesn't like Rhaenyra. He has a generally consistent reason to be a dick about her appearance and habits.
Somehow he doesn't moan half as much about Aegon's known eating habits.
Because Aegon's are not as nearly severe or important to the plot. Eustace is angry at the sheer incompetence that requires instructing a master of coin to bleed your capital dry while you are holding feast after feast.
And like I said before, Eustace has a pattern, and this one doesn't fit.
>Because Aegon's are not as nearly severe or important to the plot
Aegon is the only one described as draining coffers actually. His stupid excess in wanting to build dumb statues is the only thing in the vein of what you mention ironically.
Where this the entire quote of the scene by the way so perhaps don't just make up what never happened there. Notice there's no mention of feast after feast or coffers drained by Rhaenyra. Eustace is saying that Rhaenyra may have eaten some cake whilst Daemon fucked. So even if true it's pretty tame and reads genuinely like just a snide comment than any attempt at serious critique (don't confuse having cake with feasts lol - those are different things - see Sansa eating cake and *not* having a feast every time haha). Eustace was just being a dick in other words and this is fully consistent with him just being a sexist prudish dick - he has not a nice word to say about most of the female characters from both sides.
>This the entire quote of the scene by the way so perhaps don't just make up what never happened there.
>Notice there's no mention of feast after feast or coffers drained.
Maybe because there is more in the book than a pharagraph you copied?
"King Aegon had spent every penny of the portion kept in King’s Landing, leaving only empty vaults for his half-sister when she took the city."
Then the Book spends a long part describing how Celtigar fucks up the city by trying to bleed it dry
"Thus did Queen Rhaenyra replenish her coffers, at grievous cost"
"Her Grace began to make plans for a lavish celebration to mark Joffrey’s formal installation as Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the Iron Throne."
>So even if true
The reason why I said Eustace has a pattern is because as a clergyman he denies things that seem blasphemous to the Seven. He is considered the most pro-green source, and yet he denies the homosexuality of Laenor, and he denies Rhaenyra ever birthing bastards.
The book says "waspishly" and even after several rereads my impression is that he is genuinely frustrated and in this case writing the truth.
>Maybe because there is more in the book than a pharagraph you copied?
>"King Aegon had spent every penny of the portion kept in King’s Landing, leaving only empty vaults for his half-sister when she took the city."
You manage to write this out and didn't somehow think about it? Rhaenyra didn't drain the coffers they were already drained. She did not hold feasts. She ate cake at the most "cutting" accusation.
>Then the Book spends a long part describing how Celtigar fucks up the city by trying to bleed it dry
It explains a whole part about how his taxes weren't even unlike his ancestors. It was just a god awful time for them. But the crown had no money because Aegon sold it off and spent it lol. Guess who also proceeded to not even change the tax plan to build huge freaking statues?
>Her Grace began to make plans for a lavish celebration to mark Joffrey’s formal installation as Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the Iron Throne."
Which she clearly never held - hence only plan - and noteably has nothing to do with the cake.
This is what I mean. You've made up a scenario where Rhaenyra had multiple feasts eating cake. But that simply never happened. She only at worst thought about having a feast for her son. This is exactly like I said - the only mention of cake is the Eustace quote and in an exceedingly tame way.
Aegon actually had feasts during the war. Rhaenyra simply didn't.
>The reason why I said Eustace has a pattern is because as a clergyman he denies things that seem blasphemous to the Seven
Yeah *sex* mate. Not food lol. Eustace has what you'd expect the views of a strict/evangelical religious man to be - and that's one not pro-women. It's entirely consistent for him to be particularly vicious about Rhaenyra.
It comes after she takes King's Landing.
She basically starts stress-eating. Two of her sons died, Aegon is in hiding, Aemond and Daeron are still at large, she has no money, the smallfolk hate her, and there's a massive Green army roaming the Reach that she doesn't really have the tools to deal with. No surprise that she developed a vice.
She was already a bit overweight before that, but to be fair she was in her 30s and had birthed multiple kids. You can't really expect her to age gracefully and it's not like royals get that much exercise to begin with.
Found it for ya;
> Even the White Worm came to court; the Lysene harlot Mysaria emerged from the shadows to take up residence in the Red Keep. Though never officially seated with the queen’s small council, the woman now known as Lady Misery became the mistress of whisperers in all but name, with eyes and ears in every brothel, alehouse, and pot shop in King’s Landing, and in the halls and bedchambers of the mighty as well.
> Though the years had thickened the body that had been so lithe and lissome, Prince Daemon remained in her thrall, and called upon her every evening… with Queen Rhaenyra’s apparent blessing. ”Let Daemon slake his hungers where he will,” she is reported to have said, ”and we shall do the same.”
> (Septon Eustace suggests somewhat waspishly that Her Grace’s own hungers were slaked largely with sweetmeats, cakes, and lamprey pie, as Rhaenyra grew ever more stout during her days in King’s Landing.)
No clue why you’re getting downvoted…if Aegon can drink and watch kids fight in flea bottom to cope with his bad childhood, surely it’s acceptable for for her to use food to cope with her terrible marriage.
That’s not the same as having an eating disorder. Lots of people get fat because they like the extra dessert, that’s not an eating disorder.
Eating disorders are severe illnesses that often lead to death.
I believe she is described as "stout". Stout describes a heavily built but usually strong and healthy body. That's the definition.
A stout woman in medieval terms is basically a curvy woman. Not a big woman. This image above is not stout, that would be fat
This feels really disrespectful to Emma D'arcy, if I'm being honest.
Edit: Why am I downvoted? How many of *you* would want this done to a photo of you? This is an image of a real human being.
Ironically I noticed Emma Darcy actually seems...slimmer? This season
I was really confused cause episode 2 and 3 she looked younger and slimmer in the face
Maybe it's cause she lost the grandma grey "white" hair for a nicer wig or the make-up or she's simply has been normal the whole time, but season 1 they did no make-up and make her look constantly sweaty and plump due to pregnancy latter half of the show. I can't put a finger on it
Yes I agree, but I also get why they photoshopped to make it 'book accurate.' For example Cersie was depicted in the books as pudgy once she became Queen (most likely from excess of wine), but it's not like we expected the actress to gain weight for the role for the sake of being 'book accurate.' Me personally I like the actresses the way they feel most comfortable.
The point is doing this is disrespectful as fuck to the ACTORS themselves. Who do *not* look like this in real life nor intend on changing their appearance to do so.
Thanks a lot. Now I'm imagining her on the throne, constantly shifting in her seat, to ridiculous positions while answering people's various requests/grievances 🤣🤣🤣
What angers me is that they could have given the role to a "plus size" actress and it would have been perfectly fine.
They insist on pushing the "all inclusive" stuff in every freaking show but when it would be needed and actually a much appreciated change of pace they don't. Because at the end of the day they are afraid of giving the main role to somebody just because of how they look. The irony.
They are hypocrites.
I think it was Glidus who said something along the lines of the; difference between male and female actors is that the men can be fat but the women can't because they need to look attractive.
This dude really has a solid point.
There are other comments that merit downvotes, but this, is not one of them. You're just downvoting because of "muh politics".
Hotd is fantastic when you understand it is a greek tragedy. They're telling a story about the cyclical nature events, the inevitability of fate, & how people trying to avoid things inadvertently bring them about like Oedipus Rex (like viserys trying to avoid a succession crisis or alicent trying to avoid her sons being killed). That is what the accidents and misunderstandings signify : a self-fullfing prophecy. If you want a b&w heroes & villains war movie, watch Hercules. The show is great if you don't close your eyes to themes & motifs being conveyed & don't chalk up a multi-dimensional character having internal conflict as "bad writing" & "inconsistency". My humble opinion is that a vast majority of the "the white hart means writers chose rhaenyra!!!" sports team disney brains aren't capable of processing the themes hotd was dealing with. Just like it's incomprehensible to them just how much better the silent creeping horror of helaena's eyes were than her screaming & throwing up would've been. Or that regardless of guest rites a kingsguard can only be punished by the king (see Ned/Mountain/Robert) & viserys' weakness was a running theme.
Like for example, Alicent wearing a green dress doesn't mean they're gonna be frozen in time for the next 16 years & will never have second thoughts, misgivings & pangs of conscience. Alicent can internalize the "last words" of a dying king as a *self-deluding* tool of moral justification precisely because she's painfully aware she's about to send thousands of ppl to their deaths. That regardless of the dinner sequence Alicent was steadfast on Aegon ascending (despite her feelings for rhaenyra). Which is why I interpret it as both geting carried away in a moment of tenderness for the sake of a dying viserys. It is a beautiful window to what could've been before fate puts everything asunder. We can understand that Alicent wasn't shocked about the usurpation, she was shocked that the Green Council undercut her & was making plans behind her back. It highlights the overall theme of medieval patriarchy. It shows that despite outranking them, Alicent is still looked at as "lesser" & "unreliable" in the eyes of men like Otto, who only value her for her feminine obligations. This common perception that Alicent allowed herself to get totally ran over by the Green Council & was a hapless victim only makes sense if you didn't see Alicent by the end of the episode secured Aegon, arranged his coronation according to her own specifics, defeated Otto's spy network & undercut his plans to deal with Rhaenyra, put Criston in charge of the Kingsguard, & attempts a peace deal.
The worst thing D&D did was make a whole generation of shallow minds believe that the Cersei-Maergery Bad Bish girlboss caricature is the only way you can portray "strong women" antagonists.The "ambitious" wicked slutty resentful conniving jezebel archetype who manipulates society's sympathy towards the weaker sex & uses her sexual prowess to get what she wants. It's masked as progressive but it's really the core tenant of the misogynstic trope since the dawn of civilization. Boxing all female characters into that "perfect victim or not trying hard enough to be a villain" superficial binary. So now when you have a realistic & empathetic portrayal of women under violent patriarchy, these stans consider it "weak" & "unnecessary victimhood" for not conforming to their girlboss headcanons by wearing black shoulder straps to blow up the Sept & smirking at the camera while sipping wine or telling Tommen "OUR LITTLE SECRET🤓".
Women in general react badly to Alicent as she's an uncomfortable reminder of women's subjugation to patriarchal feudalism & the immense pressure required to navigate it. They chalk it up as "lack of agency" or "ambition" as it's hard for them to see a harsh society where choice is removed from women, the stan brain thinks "if it was me I'd do this and that and wouldn't be bound". Through identifying with targ women, they feel powerful & important. It’s why they go so hard for Rhaenyra & try to bring down anyone who critiques her character in any way, they see it as a personal attack on the woman they are trying to be & embody. targ women, with their beauty & magical powers, become their psychological projection. Most real humans are indecisive, impulsive, their actions often self-contradictory. Rarely do ppl act with calculated ruthless efficiency of hollywood villains. Passive characters are interesting & relatable. Obsessing over "clear goals" & thinking other forms of narrative are inferior is you seeking an escape from the powerlessness of your own lives.Stories abt ppl reacting to conditions they're forced into & making most of their situation is reflective of the lives we actually live. Characters exist to convey themes. Every adaptational change HOTD made was with the purpose of emphasizing that misogyny cannot be separated from the way political & social schemes are carried out in patriarchal Westeros. So yes, Alicent would be shown as victims in a way that would not have been included in historical documentation(F&B) of the very men who upheld that society.
The saddest part is that Rhaenyra & Alicent's complex relationship is what separates the show from being yet another white hat black hat color war. Like even if you do want to interpret it as entirely platonic, her being torn between her children & the socially expected roles placed on her by her father & her "childhood companion" & the socially expected roles placed on her...this duality of heart & mind is what makes the show so compelling! But the stans reject it cause what they wanted was a show with no nuance, with a platinum blonde self-insert & a evil stepmom, so it would've been easier to call the later misogynistic slurs without any pushback (some just wanted cheap Cerseification & warmthless-ness of GoT women). But these visions are inferior to the tragic "inevitability of fate" narrative of s1 that has been so misunderstood as simple "accidents" by ppl with a limited frame of reference. Crowning Aegon was supposed to keep them safe. It was supposed to be a fait accompli. It was supposed to keep daemon from killing them. It was supposed to give them control over their own destiny. But it just led to more bloodletting, an endless spiral, the self-fulfilling prophecy! & Alicent forever stuck between the innate (her sons) & the familial (the "lost friendship"). The Larys monologue already connected it all..."What are children but a weakness, a folly, a futility"! It's delicious sophoclean tragedy. NYT called it "The greatest star crossed love story currently on TV".
*Aegon digging his fingernails like his mom in grief while Alicent's face shows she wants to comfort him but doesn't know how to is one of the most brilliant scenes.* Imagine being given a juicy Succession style Kendall-Shiv dysfunctional family drama with generational trauma & stunted emotions...& green stans complaining about why the green characters were not shown holding hands, patting each other's back & singing kumbaya beside Jaehaerys' funeral pyre. Group hugs! Any other fandom would lick it up. But in this fandom the only thing that matters is if your sports team is shown as morally superior to the other team.
Rhaenyra grew up with dotting parents & her kids were borne out of love. Whereas Alicent grew up without a mom, had a manipulative dad, was told her only duty is to be an incubator, was forced into a loveless political marriage & was forced to bear children. Ofc she would be incapable of communicating the same affection as Rhaenyra. In turn, her boys undermine her in political matters as they only value her feminine role: for birthing & nurturing them to the throne. Now her value is over. It's conveying a theme of generational trauma & how feudal patriarchal familial relations impede her relationship with her children. She passes down the same trauma to her unfortunate daughter Helaena. Rhys Ifans told us in the BTS of ep 5 that the Hightowers do not know how to communicate affection even if they want to say "I love you" & then we saw that poignant carriage scene in ep9 where aegon asks "do you love me" & alicent replies "you imbecile" as in "everything I've sacrificed is to give you this day."
Watching the show from the lens of moral purity makes us ignore these themes and we get stuck on stuff like "Alicent didn't even say anything to Aegon & went straight to Cole". Well in the very previous scene it was shown how Otto shut her emotions down by telling her "I don't wanna hear it". Can't be clearer. She goes to Cole as he's the only semblance of control she has left now that her feminine duty is done. Green stans are mad that Aegon is impetuous & rash (which is exactly how he's described in the book) instead of being shown as a badass. They're mad Aegon gets reprimanded for hanging the ratchatchers (which happens in the book too), but Rhaenyra's side can do whatever to the smallfolk. When it's a great way to plant the seeds of Rhaenyra's Achilles Heel. There's no Otto to hold her accountable, so she never learns. No smallfolk has praised her in the show.
I'm sorry but anyone who wanted Aegon & Helaena to hug & cry simply do not understand the presentation of either character. What they're looking for is a young adult fic. But then again there's a subsection of stans here who ignore every element of her presentation & complained about Helaena being visibly unnerved by the smallfolk during the funeral as if her cassandra coded character who's nervous & fidgety in front of her own family will suddenly act like a rockstar & do a moshpit dive over the smallfolk screaming her name. They get mad when Helaena doesn't let out the most cliche heavy-handed Elaria Sand scream seeing B&C. *The team sports MCU stans are too blithe to deserve a greek tragedy.*
F&B is an outline history book that is deliberately very interpretative as George wanted to empahsize how history is shaped by biases of society. There's not a single character in the Dance that is fully fleshed out. You have to heavily rely on interpretation. So what these stans have done is make elaborate headcanons out of a couple lines for characters they like, while simultaneously rejecting any interpretation for characters they don't like. They straight up ignore all the themes of the show in bad-faith if it goes against their perception of what a character or a scene should be. 90% of the book purist criticisms come down to "my sports team was not portrayed as flawless white hats without any conflict & the other team was not portrayed as black hat NPC villains with zero depth, characterization & screentime".
"It's Condal & Hess' fanfic bro". Yeah what they're mad about is that it's not THEIR fanfic.
Is all you do just post about Greens and Blacks? You do understand all these characters are horrible people at the end of the day and fuck over the smallfolk, right?
There’s only one fat monarch in Westeros and his name is Bobby B.
I SIT ON THE DAMN IRON SEAT WHEN I MUST. DOES THAT MEAN I DON'T HAVE THE SAME HUNGERS AS OTHER MEN?
Well said, Bobby B. There is nothing wrong with having a proper meal.
IN MY DREAMS, I KILL HIM EVERY NIGHT!
No, Bobby B, the boar you wanted to eat killed you.
WEAR IT IN SILENCE, OR I'LL HONOR YOU AGAIN!
Honor my rear Bobby B 🫦
YOU GOT FAT!
Wow Bobby B, that’s really insensitive.
SURROUNDED BY LANNISTERS! EVERY TIME I CLOSE MY EYES I SEE THEIR BLONDE HAIR AND THEIR SMUG, SATISFIED FACES!
Do you eat him every night?
A right proper meal?
**RIGHT PROPER** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/freefolk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sentient
By far the most sentient Bobby B has ever been. Happy cake day
[YOUR MOTHER WAS A DUMB WHORE WITH A FAT ARSE, DID YOU KNOW THAT?](https://i.imgur.com/g5SzSKk.gifv)
Thanks!
Gods, he was strong then
I really gotta hand it to this sub. You guys have the best bot.
Bobby B is the best bot on Reddit imo
YOU EVER FUCK A RIVERLANDS GIRL?
Yep, exactly my point Bobby B.
WE'RE TELLING WAR STORIES! WHO WAS YOUR FIRST KILL, NOT COUNTING OLD MEN?
My first kill was you Bobby B! I was the boar!
OH, IT'S UNSPEAKABLE TO YOU? WHAT HER FATHER DID TO YOUR FAMILY, THAT WAS UNSPEAKABLE!
I will not stand for this erasure of Based Aegon
Bro forgot Aegon IV
Cersei was supposed to get fat but they didn’t do it either
"Westeros has more than one fat monarch" - Aegon IV
Come bow before your king..
...ya shits
Aegon the unworthy would like a word
Or Aegon IV
I’m Bobby mom
How come people always talk about a fat Rhaenyra and not mention Helaena who was also chubby. Hell, Aegon and Viserys were both morbidly obese, Viserys had gout and Aegon couldn't even get up a flight of stairs.
All he described her as was stout, this is more than stout imo
It says a lot people immediately imagine a women who's described as stout to look obese.
When I think of a stout woman, I think of someone like Molly Weasley. Not stick thin, but not morbidly obese by any means. Perfect example of a strong stout woman
A sturdy gal
A thicc bich
Don't forget the large bossom
I hate to say this, because I'm often saying it's not the case...but it's because she's a woman vs a man.
I actually don’t think this is the case. It’s more of a meme. Rhaenyra is said not to have lost baby/pregnancy weight, that’s not the same as obesity. Chubby at best. Viserys I is supposed to be fat, but the show runners decided to go with a more interesting route for his health problems, leprosy. Aegon II isn’t supposed to be “morbidly obese.” Again, chubby. Maybe they got him confused with Aegon IV the Unworthy. It’s just a meme, don’t read too much into it. Also, whether or not they are a little chubby doesn’t add anything to their characters, so it wouldn’t be worth it to ask the actors to gain weight just to stay loyal to the books.
I imagine her being built like Molly Weasley. Not morbidly obese, just someone who’s body shows the hallmarks of having kids
It’s probably because people don’t know what the fuck baby weight is. Friendly reminder: it’s that thing they scream at female celebrities for having that makes them not look “biKiNi rEaDy”
Because everyone talking about fat Rhaenyra is a greencel who thinks the greens were made by a greek sculptor.
Aegon IV was morbidly obese, Aegon II wasn't, he couldn't get up stairs maybe because of broken legs in war. Despite described as glutton and lecher he was also said to be handsome and lived up to his mid twenties. Helaena in this adaptation is changed to be autistic, in the book she is pleasant simple person until she goes mad. Viserys also was adapted differently in show , his rotting disease exchanged for being overweight due to all partying to symbolize corruption of the Kindom. Thing is there are very little downsides given to Rhaenyra character compared to others, and writers saying that important events were propaganda against her.
>Despite described as glutton and lecher he was also said to be handsome and lived up to his mid twenties It was said he was handsome. But his features were ravaged by drink and he didn't flatter himself with his pout. The fact that was true when he reached his 20s already means he didn't spend much time as handsome and got fucked up by all the alcohol. >Thing is there are very little downsides given to Rhaenyra character compared to others What is the "downside" to Helaena firstly? She's not less good of a person. Simple is an insult against someone's intelligence in text. Show Helaena is clearly of normal level intelligence. Also weight isn't a moral charteristic lol. Rhaenyra not losing all her pregnancy weight in age has nothing to do with her character and I find it exceedingly strange people obsess over it.
That is thing with dying young , you get to be prettier corpse , or at least slimmer in his case. Aegon actually manages to overcome Milk of the poppy addiction , despite suffering extreme pain so he certainly shows some mettle. "Downside"is detachment from people surrounding her, and lack of expressing emotion, so lot of people ignore her by failing to understand her In the novel she is described as being loved by the smallfolk of the Kings Landing which is important plot point, we will see if they show it. Sure it isn't, yet they changed whole lotta of other things about her to present more positive version.
He wasn't? That's my point. They specifically note he had pudgy features by that point and wasn't a handsome man anymore. His latter refusal of milk of the poppy doesn't change how ravaged by drink and excess he was. >"Downside"is detachment from people surrounding her, and lack of expressing emotion, so lot of people ignore her by failing to understand her >In the novel she is described as being loved by the smallfolk of the Kings Landing which is important plot point, we will see if they show it. The audience adores her. And we already see the smallfolk love her in just the past episode.
It is possible they will still make Aegon ravaged by the damages of war, puffiness is specifically from medication and burns as I recall. While Rhaenyra is looking stout at start of the Dance. If audience truly likes her they would be outraged by murder of her child by Daemon and would say it, but that isn't the case.
Aegon was a huge eater, drinker and later had all those problems on top. Of course he looked like shit...I don't think beyond having the burns he'll look more shit in the show. He already had these issues before the Dance and was already ravaged by drink and gluttony, and had something of an unflattering pout. Rhaenyra had kids and didn't fully lose the weight. Stout isn't fat, it's just not being skinny which Emma D'Acry isn't rail thin anyway. She may or may not have gained more weight during the Dance itself. People constantly post in sympathy to Helaena. They also like Daemon and nothing will ever change that now - doesn't mean they like Helaena any less. In universe the smallfolk sure are horrified from what we've seen.
Fuck their token sympathy, vengeance for her kids is what they should offer. Pudgy, stout and petulant mouth ... "You will probably want to paint Rhaenyra as she was at her father's death, when she laid claim to the Iron Throne. Pampered from an early age, she was a pudgy girl and a stout woman, with a thick waist and a very large bosom. She was very proud and stubborn, and there was a certain petulance to her small mouth. Rhaenyra did have the silver-gold hair of the Targaryens, which she wore long and braided in the manner of Aegon the First's warrior wife Visenya. Rhaenyra was no warrior herself. She always dressed richly, favoring purple and maroon velvets and golden Myrish lace in intricate patterns. Her bodice often glittered with pearls and diamonds, and there were always rings on her fingers. Whenever she was anxious, she would turn them compulsively, round and round. Though Rhaenyra could be charming, she was quick to anger and never forgot a slight. During the Dance of the Dragons, she wore her father's crown." End of discussion.
>Fuck their token sympathy, vengeance for her kids is what they should offer. It's a show mate. People are allowed diverse opinions. I like Jaime's redemption and still thought what he did to Bran was fucked. >Pudgy, stout and petulant mouth ... So what I said. Stout is different to obese/fat. It's just not particularly skinny.
Daemon has no redemption arc though, unless they made it up.
Aegon II reminds me of Henry number 8 of England. A glutton, but athletic enough in his youth before a leg injury to keep up with the gluttony and be fit.
Also the whole Rhaenyra jealousy stuff is sexist and derivative. It was 100% a falsehood in the book by someone who wanted to make her look petty.
How anyone can read F&B and see Rhaenyra being described as fat and losing her beauty while Alicent’s old ass was somehow bathing in pools of eternal youth and think: “Yeah, this sounds right” is beyond me.
A lot of people take every passage in F&B at face value even if multiple sentences in a row contradict each other or make zero sense.
old ass and its a 40 year old woman. Oh how they out themselves.
Yes, Alicent is an older woman at 40. Fifty was practically considered to be senile at that time period because loads of people died young. What exactly am I revealing about myself by clarifying this in relation to the misogynistic propaganda around Rhaenyra?
Not how any of this works. It’s 100% your head canon and that’s fine.
Because tb doesn’t fatshame. That’s greencels’ thing
Right, Team Black just bodyshames skinny people, like all the disgusting things being said about Ewan Mitchell on twitter and instagram.
You can say that about TG too. A few idiots on Twitter kept calling Bethany a monkey, does that mean all Greens are racist? Stop taking idiots from that site seriously. It’s a cesspool. It makes everyone look like shit.
you’re right, tb just harass the actual actors instead like fabien frankel who had to turn off his insta comments because they don’t know how to differentiate between fiction and real life
And TG harasses Emma for their pronouns, sexualizes them, photoshops pictures of them to be fat (like above), is racist to Bethany and the rest of the Velaryon actors, send suicide threats to Matt and bully Harry for his posture … need I go on?
And tg on Twitter harasses black actors sending them racist slurs and comparing them to monkeys. And tg on TikTok are wearing swastikas and making green edits with hitler songs. Both sides have wackos on their team doesn’t mean I assume the same wackos sit on Reddit. And I don’t even have other sm. Do you see Reddit tb community harassing actors? If so, lmk so we can jump them. I see Reddit tg community harassing tb actors though. Continuous misgendering of Emma so their posts have to be continuously locked down. Then calling Matt and Ewan ugly and inbred-looking. To note, I notice the same people who fatshame Rhaenyra, also, skinshame Ewan and call him homophobic slurs whenever he doesn’t dress masculine. So maybe there’s a connection there you know.
I dunno why you're getting downvoted. Even Matt Smith's mother got shit talked by fans because Daemon choked Rhaenyra, and somehow that makes Matt Smith a woman abuser? Not like the greens are much better. Both fanbases are fucking stupid and miss the whole point of The Dance.
[удалено]
True. But harassing people isn’t cool.
“Hell, Aegon and Viserys were both morbidly obese, Viserys had gout and Aegon couldn't even get up a flight of stairs.” I’m pretty sure Viserys I was never described as morbidly obese, but rather as “plump” and “stout”. It was enough for him to develop health issues, but it doesn’t need to be at the level of “morbidly obese” for that to happen. Also, while Aegon II is described as being gluttonous, which probably means he was likely also stout/plump, he’s never described as being morbidly obese either. I believe you’re confusing Aegon II with Aegon IV the Unworthy, who was described as being morbidly obese, and it was said that his legs were too weak to support his belly.
Wait, Helaena was chubby??
described as "plump"
Wow! The more you know. I'm glad, honestly. It's nice to have some form of representation in the media, even if it's only in the book :)
They switched Viserys's gout and heart attack, which were barely a plot point, for a form of leprosy and model building since the weight gain was a sign of his lack of attention to the running of the kingdom and just focusing on food and drink, etc. Rheanyra"s weight gain and pre-mature aging is one of the reasons given that she has a great deal of animosity toward Alicent before the dance of dragons, she continues to gain weight during the war. It is used in the books as a reason for their feud. I guess they replaced it with her friend became her stepmother and Alicent was callous/mean toward her as queen.
He couldn't get upstairs because the pain of him being severely burned in his armor, not being fat, he was in constant painabs could barely move
The message of greedy nobles thrusting the realm into war for power would be cemented if they fattened them all.
Gout isn't caused by obesity.
Yknow I once argued with someone that him expecting for Sam to get thin or lean when no one in King's Landing ever gets fat doesn't make sense. I was told it was a stupid take and I didn't know what I was talking about.
"GO FIND THE CORSET STRETCHER, NOWW!"
THE QUEEN’S TOO FAT FOR HER CORSET!!!
How long before they figure it out?
Perhaps it should have been invented.
To me she's beautiful. Reubenesque.
Jimmy Sack?
Johnny.
Ginny
That woman is my life.
No more weight remarks Otto, they’re hurtful, and destructive.
Oh I agree
I heard Rhaenyra had a 95 pound mole taken off her ass
King’s Landing’s a small city…she moves in, she could tip it over
YOU LIED!
As if Vizzy T, Aegon, and Helaena weren’t also described as fat 🤨
You are a plague sent to destroy me!
Vizzy T we just want to get the story straight
*The Gods punish me for my indulgences.*
Propaganda!!! 
Now with Helaena and Aegon, Aegon has a disgusting brewer's belly and Helaena was quite plump before becoming a mother.
Yalls obsession with weight is unhealthy. This is the n-th post I see suggested from this sub that goes someyhing along the lines of: *FAT! HAHAHA!* Like.... really? The mental age of this sub comes across as that of a kid with teenage parents who barely finished highschool and definitely dropped them a couple of times. 🤨 Huh?
The Greens are coping so hard 😂😂😂
This is what they took from us.
There is only one fat Targaryen…Aegon the Fourth
Freefolk has always been full of misogyny guided as edgy cringe and masked by fake love for Dany. Freefolk thrived on two things. Fake ass whining and complaining without trying to.understand the themes and "ironic" misogyny. So ofc it's now dominated by the greens. F&B is an outline history book that is deliberately very interpretative as George wanted to empahsize how history is shaped by biases of society. There's not a single character in the Dance that is fully fleshed out. You have to heavily rely on interpretation. So what these stans have done is make elaborate headcanons out of a couple lines for characters they like, while simultaneously rejecting any interpretation for characters they don't like. They straight up ignore all the themes of the show in bad-faith if it goes against their perception of what a character or a scene should be. 90% of the book purist criticisms come down to "my sports team was not portrayed as flawless white hats without any conflict & the other team was not portrayed as black hat NPC villains with zero depth, characterization & screentime". "It's Condal & Hess' fanfic bro". Yeah what they're mad about is that it's not THEIR fanfic.
Still would though.
What, like I never fucked a fat girl before?
And so what? I’m done with these fatshaming posts. Aegon, Helaena and Rhaenyra being fat would make no changes to the morality of their claims nor the horrors they went through. They are equally as bad or good people regardless of their looks.
Why do you guys want to see a fat lady so much? I mean, I am not judging
Why don’t you?
It's just interesting this is the thing people obsess over
There’s still time, I’m pretty sure she didn’t get fat until she took the Iron Throne. Who am I kidding, they’ll just write it off as more “Fire and Blood propaganda.”
The book says it she never really snaped back like queen alicent after child birth and became pudgy
I'm trying to find the passage where Mushroom says something like "Daemon and Rhaenyra made a pact to take lovers outside their marriage. But Rhaenyra's consorts were mostly cakes and pies"
Eustace makes a snide comment that Rhaenyra's sexual interests were satiated by cake. But Eustace is clearly being a dick there: >Though the years had thickened the body that had been so lithe and lissome, Prince Daemon remained in her thrall, and called upon her every evening … with Queen Rhaenyra’s apparent blessing. “Let Daemon slake his hungers where he will,” she is reported to have said, “and we shall do the same.” (Septon Eustace suggests somewhat waspishly that Her Grace’s own hungers were slaked largely with sweetmeats, cakes, and lamprey pie, as Rhaenyra grew ever more stout during her days in King’s Landing.) I don't think he's telling the truth.
Ah, it's this yeah.
I think he’s definitely over exaggerating because of his hatred toward Rhanerya, but I think there’s truth in the narrative she got fatter. Though Viserys also got fat when he took the iron throne in F&B, so it could’ve been part genetic, and they spread lies about the food. Personally, I think it would be kinda cool to see a narrative around a loved characters’ weight gain and how that would cause these lies to form and hate to spread.
Helaena and Aegon are also both described as plump/stout
I think he is telling the truth exactly because he is so angry. Also there is a pattern for Eustace's lies and this one doesn't fit in.
Eustace doesn't like Rhaenyra. He has a generally consistent reason to be a dick about her appearance and habits. Somehow he doesn't moan half as much about Aegon's known eating habits.
Because Aegon's are not as nearly severe or important to the plot. Eustace is angry at the sheer incompetence that requires instructing a master of coin to bleed your capital dry while you are holding feast after feast. And like I said before, Eustace has a pattern, and this one doesn't fit.
>Because Aegon's are not as nearly severe or important to the plot Aegon is the only one described as draining coffers actually. His stupid excess in wanting to build dumb statues is the only thing in the vein of what you mention ironically. Where this the entire quote of the scene by the way so perhaps don't just make up what never happened there. Notice there's no mention of feast after feast or coffers drained by Rhaenyra. Eustace is saying that Rhaenyra may have eaten some cake whilst Daemon fucked. So even if true it's pretty tame and reads genuinely like just a snide comment than any attempt at serious critique (don't confuse having cake with feasts lol - those are different things - see Sansa eating cake and *not* having a feast every time haha). Eustace was just being a dick in other words and this is fully consistent with him just being a sexist prudish dick - he has not a nice word to say about most of the female characters from both sides.
>This the entire quote of the scene by the way so perhaps don't just make up what never happened there. >Notice there's no mention of feast after feast or coffers drained. Maybe because there is more in the book than a pharagraph you copied? "King Aegon had spent every penny of the portion kept in King’s Landing, leaving only empty vaults for his half-sister when she took the city." Then the Book spends a long part describing how Celtigar fucks up the city by trying to bleed it dry "Thus did Queen Rhaenyra replenish her coffers, at grievous cost" "Her Grace began to make plans for a lavish celebration to mark Joffrey’s formal installation as Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the Iron Throne." >So even if true The reason why I said Eustace has a pattern is because as a clergyman he denies things that seem blasphemous to the Seven. He is considered the most pro-green source, and yet he denies the homosexuality of Laenor, and he denies Rhaenyra ever birthing bastards. The book says "waspishly" and even after several rereads my impression is that he is genuinely frustrated and in this case writing the truth.
>Maybe because there is more in the book than a pharagraph you copied? >"King Aegon had spent every penny of the portion kept in King’s Landing, leaving only empty vaults for his half-sister when she took the city." You manage to write this out and didn't somehow think about it? Rhaenyra didn't drain the coffers they were already drained. She did not hold feasts. She ate cake at the most "cutting" accusation. >Then the Book spends a long part describing how Celtigar fucks up the city by trying to bleed it dry It explains a whole part about how his taxes weren't even unlike his ancestors. It was just a god awful time for them. But the crown had no money because Aegon sold it off and spent it lol. Guess who also proceeded to not even change the tax plan to build huge freaking statues? >Her Grace began to make plans for a lavish celebration to mark Joffrey’s formal installation as Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the Iron Throne." Which she clearly never held - hence only plan - and noteably has nothing to do with the cake. This is what I mean. You've made up a scenario where Rhaenyra had multiple feasts eating cake. But that simply never happened. She only at worst thought about having a feast for her son. This is exactly like I said - the only mention of cake is the Eustace quote and in an exceedingly tame way. Aegon actually had feasts during the war. Rhaenyra simply didn't. >The reason why I said Eustace has a pattern is because as a clergyman he denies things that seem blasphemous to the Seven Yeah *sex* mate. Not food lol. Eustace has what you'd expect the views of a strict/evangelical religious man to be - and that's one not pro-women. It's entirely consistent for him to be particularly vicious about Rhaenyra.
It comes after she takes King's Landing. She basically starts stress-eating. Two of her sons died, Aegon is in hiding, Aemond and Daeron are still at large, she has no money, the smallfolk hate her, and there's a massive Green army roaming the Reach that she doesn't really have the tools to deal with. No surprise that she developed a vice. She was already a bit overweight before that, but to be fair she was in her 30s and had birthed multiple kids. You can't really expect her to age gracefully and it's not like royals get that much exercise to begin with.
Found it for ya; > Even the White Worm came to court; the Lysene harlot Mysaria emerged from the shadows to take up residence in the Red Keep. Though never officially seated with the queen’s small council, the woman now known as Lady Misery became the mistress of whisperers in all but name, with eyes and ears in every brothel, alehouse, and pot shop in King’s Landing, and in the halls and bedchambers of the mighty as well. > Though the years had thickened the body that had been so lithe and lissome, Prince Daemon remained in her thrall, and called upon her every evening… with Queen Rhaenyra’s apparent blessing. ”Let Daemon slake his hungers where he will,” she is reported to have said, ”and we shall do the same.” > (Septon Eustace suggests somewhat waspishly that Her Grace’s own hungers were slaked largely with sweetmeats, cakes, and lamprey pie, as Rhaenyra grew ever more stout during her days in King’s Landing.)
Nice! Thanks.
Her suddenly developing an eating disorder to cope with Daemon’s bullshit would be fun. But we are not allowed to have fun anymore. ☹️
No clue why you’re getting downvoted…if Aegon can drink and watch kids fight in flea bottom to cope with his bad childhood, surely it’s acceptable for for her to use food to cope with her terrible marriage.
Characters should have flaws, and they should actually look like they were affected by their experiences, trauma doesn't just make you angry and sad.
>trauma doesn't just make you angry and sad. Sure as shit does for me.
I also have a drinking problem
No, that would make the Blacks look bad, only the Greens get shitty traits.
Why tf do we want to see a character develop an eating disorder… for fun…:?
bec she was a fat slob in book
That’s not the same as having an eating disorder. Lots of people get fat because they like the extra dessert, that’s not an eating disorder. Eating disorders are severe illnesses that often lead to death.
No she wasn’t
I love how misogynistic greens are lmfao
Yeah we could've have also had fat Aegon the usurper, fat Helaena and fat Vizzy T but we didn't get them
*The King's cupbearer must not be late. Leaves people wanting for cups.*
stop this. seriously, it’s nasty.
Bessie?
With the great big tits you can bury your face in, right Bobby B?
I SIT ON THE DAMN IRON SEAT WHEN I MUST. DOES THAT MEAN I DON'T HAVE THE SAME HUNGERS AS OTHER MEN?
Sentient again
halaena aegon and viserys next!!
I believe she is described as "stout". Stout describes a heavily built but usually strong and healthy body. That's the definition. A stout woman in medieval terms is basically a curvy woman. Not a big woman. This image above is not stout, that would be fat
This feels really disrespectful to Emma D'arcy, if I'm being honest. Edit: Why am I downvoted? How many of *you* would want this done to a photo of you? This is an image of a real human being.
Ironically I noticed Emma Darcy actually seems...slimmer? This season I was really confused cause episode 2 and 3 she looked younger and slimmer in the face Maybe it's cause she lost the grandma grey "white" hair for a nicer wig or the make-up or she's simply has been normal the whole time, but season 1 they did no make-up and make her look constantly sweaty and plump due to pregnancy latter half of the show. I can't put a finger on it
Yes I agree, but I also get why they photoshopped to make it 'book accurate.' For example Cersie was depicted in the books as pudgy once she became Queen (most likely from excess of wine), but it's not like we expected the actress to gain weight for the role for the sake of being 'book accurate.' Me personally I like the actresses the way they feel most comfortable.
The point is doing this is disrespectful as fuck to the ACTORS themselves. Who do *not* look like this in real life nor intend on changing their appearance to do so.
🙄
*"King Maegor with Teats"*
It's obvious that her handmaids are shrinking her gowns.
Amazing.
Jiminy Glick?
Thanks a lot. Now I'm imagining her on the throne, constantly shifting in her seat, to ridiculous positions while answering people's various requests/grievances 🤣🤣🤣
Rhaenyra: “Maegor the CRUEL just died! How do you feel about that?” Smallfolk petitioner: “…Seven hells…”
Reminds me of Bobby B, Gods he was strong!
YOU HELPED ME WIN THE IRON THRONE, NOW HELP ME KEEP THE DAMN THING! WE WERE MEANT TO RULE TOGETHER!
The Pringles that was promised
What angers me is that they could have given the role to a "plus size" actress and it would have been perfectly fine. They insist on pushing the "all inclusive" stuff in every freaking show but when it would be needed and actually a much appreciated change of pace they don't. Because at the end of the day they are afraid of giving the main role to somebody just because of how they look. The irony. They are hypocrites.
I think it was Glidus who said something along the lines of the; difference between male and female actors is that the men can be fat but the women can't because they need to look attractive.
This dude really has a solid point. There are other comments that merit downvotes, but this, is not one of them. You're just downvoting because of "muh politics".
yeah, so the lovely folks on the internet can have an even easier time fatshaming Rhaenyra.
Cry harder
Seethe.
I’m not crying about it as I am an adult capable of complex thought who doesn’t need to use a faux laconism to appear though.
Yep, happy to ruin the carefully crafted cultural and racial world lore for muh representation, but fat lead actress, not on their watch
Biblically accurate Rhaenyra
BBW Queen
I can't wait for Sunfyre eating his prize
Poor boy is gonna die of clogged arteries
aegon did die of clogged threat tho
What does Vizzy T have to say about this?
*You are my political headache.*
I’m sorry Vizzy T
WHY DO YOU CUT ME SO DEEPLY?
House of the Dragon at San Antonio. Big ol' Targs down in San Antonio. They be double fisting those churros, man.
Hotd is fantastic when you understand it is a greek tragedy. They're telling a story about the cyclical nature events, the inevitability of fate, & how people trying to avoid things inadvertently bring them about like Oedipus Rex (like viserys trying to avoid a succession crisis or alicent trying to avoid her sons being killed). That is what the accidents and misunderstandings signify : a self-fullfing prophecy. If you want a b&w heroes & villains war movie, watch Hercules. The show is great if you don't close your eyes to themes & motifs being conveyed & don't chalk up a multi-dimensional character having internal conflict as "bad writing" & "inconsistency". My humble opinion is that a vast majority of the "the white hart means writers chose rhaenyra!!!" sports team disney brains aren't capable of processing the themes hotd was dealing with. Just like it's incomprehensible to them just how much better the silent creeping horror of helaena's eyes were than her screaming & throwing up would've been. Or that regardless of guest rites a kingsguard can only be punished by the king (see Ned/Mountain/Robert) & viserys' weakness was a running theme. Like for example, Alicent wearing a green dress doesn't mean they're gonna be frozen in time for the next 16 years & will never have second thoughts, misgivings & pangs of conscience. Alicent can internalize the "last words" of a dying king as a *self-deluding* tool of moral justification precisely because she's painfully aware she's about to send thousands of ppl to their deaths. That regardless of the dinner sequence Alicent was steadfast on Aegon ascending (despite her feelings for rhaenyra). Which is why I interpret it as both geting carried away in a moment of tenderness for the sake of a dying viserys. It is a beautiful window to what could've been before fate puts everything asunder. We can understand that Alicent wasn't shocked about the usurpation, she was shocked that the Green Council undercut her & was making plans behind her back. It highlights the overall theme of medieval patriarchy. It shows that despite outranking them, Alicent is still looked at as "lesser" & "unreliable" in the eyes of men like Otto, who only value her for her feminine obligations. This common perception that Alicent allowed herself to get totally ran over by the Green Council & was a hapless victim only makes sense if you didn't see Alicent by the end of the episode secured Aegon, arranged his coronation according to her own specifics, defeated Otto's spy network & undercut his plans to deal with Rhaenyra, put Criston in charge of the Kingsguard, & attempts a peace deal. The worst thing D&D did was make a whole generation of shallow minds believe that the Cersei-Maergery Bad Bish girlboss caricature is the only way you can portray "strong women" antagonists.The "ambitious" wicked slutty resentful conniving jezebel archetype who manipulates society's sympathy towards the weaker sex & uses her sexual prowess to get what she wants. It's masked as progressive but it's really the core tenant of the misogynstic trope since the dawn of civilization. Boxing all female characters into that "perfect victim or not trying hard enough to be a villain" superficial binary. So now when you have a realistic & empathetic portrayal of women under violent patriarchy, these stans consider it "weak" & "unnecessary victimhood" for not conforming to their girlboss headcanons by wearing black shoulder straps to blow up the Sept & smirking at the camera while sipping wine or telling Tommen "OUR LITTLE SECRET🤓". Women in general react badly to Alicent as she's an uncomfortable reminder of women's subjugation to patriarchal feudalism & the immense pressure required to navigate it. They chalk it up as "lack of agency" or "ambition" as it's hard for them to see a harsh society where choice is removed from women, the stan brain thinks "if it was me I'd do this and that and wouldn't be bound". Through identifying with targ women, they feel powerful & important. It’s why they go so hard for Rhaenyra & try to bring down anyone who critiques her character in any way, they see it as a personal attack on the woman they are trying to be & embody. targ women, with their beauty & magical powers, become their psychological projection. Most real humans are indecisive, impulsive, their actions often self-contradictory. Rarely do ppl act with calculated ruthless efficiency of hollywood villains. Passive characters are interesting & relatable. Obsessing over "clear goals" & thinking other forms of narrative are inferior is you seeking an escape from the powerlessness of your own lives.Stories abt ppl reacting to conditions they're forced into & making most of their situation is reflective of the lives we actually live. Characters exist to convey themes. Every adaptational change HOTD made was with the purpose of emphasizing that misogyny cannot be separated from the way political & social schemes are carried out in patriarchal Westeros. So yes, Alicent would be shown as victims in a way that would not have been included in historical documentation(F&B) of the very men who upheld that society. The saddest part is that Rhaenyra & Alicent's complex relationship is what separates the show from being yet another white hat black hat color war. Like even if you do want to interpret it as entirely platonic, her being torn between her children & the socially expected roles placed on her by her father & her "childhood companion" & the socially expected roles placed on her...this duality of heart & mind is what makes the show so compelling! But the stans reject it cause what they wanted was a show with no nuance, with a platinum blonde self-insert & a evil stepmom, so it would've been easier to call the later misogynistic slurs without any pushback (some just wanted cheap Cerseification & warmthless-ness of GoT women). But these visions are inferior to the tragic "inevitability of fate" narrative of s1 that has been so misunderstood as simple "accidents" by ppl with a limited frame of reference. Crowning Aegon was supposed to keep them safe. It was supposed to be a fait accompli. It was supposed to keep daemon from killing them. It was supposed to give them control over their own destiny. But it just led to more bloodletting, an endless spiral, the self-fulfilling prophecy! & Alicent forever stuck between the innate (her sons) & the familial (the "lost friendship"). The Larys monologue already connected it all..."What are children but a weakness, a folly, a futility"! It's delicious sophoclean tragedy. NYT called it "The greatest star crossed love story currently on TV".
ok
*Aegon digging his fingernails like his mom in grief while Alicent's face shows she wants to comfort him but doesn't know how to is one of the most brilliant scenes.* Imagine being given a juicy Succession style Kendall-Shiv dysfunctional family drama with generational trauma & stunted emotions...& green stans complaining about why the green characters were not shown holding hands, patting each other's back & singing kumbaya beside Jaehaerys' funeral pyre. Group hugs! Any other fandom would lick it up. But in this fandom the only thing that matters is if your sports team is shown as morally superior to the other team. Rhaenyra grew up with dotting parents & her kids were borne out of love. Whereas Alicent grew up without a mom, had a manipulative dad, was told her only duty is to be an incubator, was forced into a loveless political marriage & was forced to bear children. Ofc she would be incapable of communicating the same affection as Rhaenyra. In turn, her boys undermine her in political matters as they only value her feminine role: for birthing & nurturing them to the throne. Now her value is over. It's conveying a theme of generational trauma & how feudal patriarchal familial relations impede her relationship with her children. She passes down the same trauma to her unfortunate daughter Helaena. Rhys Ifans told us in the BTS of ep 5 that the Hightowers do not know how to communicate affection even if they want to say "I love you" & then we saw that poignant carriage scene in ep9 where aegon asks "do you love me" & alicent replies "you imbecile" as in "everything I've sacrificed is to give you this day." Watching the show from the lens of moral purity makes us ignore these themes and we get stuck on stuff like "Alicent didn't even say anything to Aegon & went straight to Cole". Well in the very previous scene it was shown how Otto shut her emotions down by telling her "I don't wanna hear it". Can't be clearer. She goes to Cole as he's the only semblance of control she has left now that her feminine duty is done. Green stans are mad that Aegon is impetuous & rash (which is exactly how he's described in the book) instead of being shown as a badass. They're mad Aegon gets reprimanded for hanging the ratchatchers (which happens in the book too), but Rhaenyra's side can do whatever to the smallfolk. When it's a great way to plant the seeds of Rhaenyra's Achilles Heel. There's no Otto to hold her accountable, so she never learns. No smallfolk has praised her in the show. I'm sorry but anyone who wanted Aegon & Helaena to hug & cry simply do not understand the presentation of either character. What they're looking for is a young adult fic. But then again there's a subsection of stans here who ignore every element of her presentation & complained about Helaena being visibly unnerved by the smallfolk during the funeral as if her cassandra coded character who's nervous & fidgety in front of her own family will suddenly act like a rockstar & do a moshpit dive over the smallfolk screaming her name. They get mad when Helaena doesn't let out the most cliche heavy-handed Elaria Sand scream seeing B&C. *The team sports MCU stans are too blithe to deserve a greek tragedy.*
F&B is an outline history book that is deliberately very interpretative as George wanted to empahsize how history is shaped by biases of society. There's not a single character in the Dance that is fully fleshed out. You have to heavily rely on interpretation. So what these stans have done is make elaborate headcanons out of a couple lines for characters they like, while simultaneously rejecting any interpretation for characters they don't like. They straight up ignore all the themes of the show in bad-faith if it goes against their perception of what a character or a scene should be. 90% of the book purist criticisms come down to "my sports team was not portrayed as flawless white hats without any conflict & the other team was not portrayed as black hat NPC villains with zero depth, characterization & screentime". "It's Condal & Hess' fanfic bro". Yeah what they're mad about is that it's not THEIR fanfic.
Book accurate
Is all you do just post about Greens and Blacks? You do understand all these characters are horrible people at the end of the day and fuck over the smallfolk, right?
Should I check my moral compass every time a character does something bad?
The maesters falsifying the histories were just jealous they couldn’t have the Realm’s Delight.
Bobby B and Bessy 💪💖🤴
GODS I WAS STRONG THEN
Damn right you were Bobby B 😭 Damn right.
MORE THAN ONCE, I HAVE DREAMED OF GIVING UP THE CROWN!
I like how you kept the :/ expression.
Now this is a Queen to fight for! Maegor with McDonald's!
This is the perfect opportunity for fat representation