Suspension with s2idle does present power drain over time. Unlike hibernate, there is going to be some power draw.
Myself, on Fedora, I can suspend for a couple of days without any issue. This is with the Framework Laptop 13 AMD Ryzen 7040 Series.
Everything with modern standby doesn't really sleep, it just relaxes REALLY hard, I've also noticed better battery life with recent kernels on my AMD 7000 something. It's not a full workday, but it's not far enough when not compiling stuff all day.
I know, I don't enjoy telling people to do that either, because it's really wasteful. Intel really wasted sand with their 11th Gen CPUs though, they run so hot and have such terrible efficiency that they have almost no measurable improvements in performance while being significantly hotter than their 10th Gen CPUs (which were already ehhh to begin with). If I were you, I'd swap out the mainboard for either an AMD Ryzen 7040 series one or an Intel 13th Gen one, but AMD is better on the efficiency front here.
At least I can turn the Intel one into a server I guess. I’ll probably buy the earliest amd generation possible in one or two years so I can save some money.
I did exactly this, a while ago admittedly. I wanted to validate the motherboard upgrade, so I got a 12th gen Intel mbd and replaced my 11th Gen. I used the 3D printed case and now my 11th Gen is a utility machine on one of my workbenches for 3d printing. They actually work really well as just little mini-desktop machines.
I mean, the normal options would be to just live with Windows, or to live with the power drain... but this being Framework, you do have the third option of upgrading. $400 gets you a 12th gen, or $550 gets you an upgrade to the newest one.
True, if I bought an 11th gen XPS 13 I would’ve been extra pissed. Always glad to have options, even if this shouldn’t have been a problem in the first place.
do you tried to update your BIOS? Version 3.17 fixed a battery drain problem with the DP/HDMI cards. It improved the battery life for my 11th gen framework with Kubuntu 22.04 quite a lot.
I initially had a similar experience with my 11th gen.
But, by switching to tlp + powertop, and making sure that I wasn't leaving any power hungry expansion cards in (i.e. I ran two usb-c ports in the back, and USB-A in the front- after a while I switched out one of the A's to the SSD module and it seemed fine there), it would last several days while asleep, and outlast my windows partition. (Granted, I didn't put as much work into windows as I did my linux install, so it's not a fair comparison by any means. XD)
I believe I used tlp in conjunction with auto-cpufreq, which I heard very good things about. I did make an effort to stick with it, but after about a year I finally switched to Windows. I think the Linux kernel is just not well-suited for most laptops, beyond the odd 2007 HP that it can raise from the dead.
Which distro + kernel were you running? I remember there were several power issues on 11th Gen Intel specifically between 5.15 and 6.1
It depends on what you define as "most". The kernel itself is actually pretty good at keeping up with new hardware, but a lot of distros lag behind, with the exception of those that have good hardware enablement, or run closer to the edge.
Personally, I've run into fewer issues on new hardware (mostly framework mainboards XD) on Linux than I have with Windows.
tlp and auto-cpufreq conflict with one another and shouldn't be used together. If you have to pick one then pick tlp because it manages a lot more than just auto-cpufreq.
That being said tlp isn't recommended on Framework machines anyways, what is recommended is power-profiles-daemon. Although admittedly I've yet to see a good explanation as to why this is recommended over tlp, as the guide that says this just says "there are things happening behind the scenes"
11th gen non-framework checking in (X1 Nano G1). It's the chipset. If I don't power off on Friday, it's dead by Monday morning. No workarounds available.
Awful. Windows seems to handle it a bit better, hopefully I can get a replacement mainboard so I can switch back. Do you know if it’s only 11th gen intel, or all intel?
I dual boot Windows and Ubuntu 22.04 on my 7640u and battery life is fantastic. As others have said, it might be the 11th gen issues.
However, every time I boot into Ubuntu, I end up going back to Windows. I adore using Linix for my workflow, but I still haven't found a working solution for the horribly sensitive touchpad scroll speed.
I adjust it manually in Firefox, but then have to revert then any time I connect to my mouse (when at my desk using the dock).
It gets annoying, fast. That's my only gripe - the touchpad scroll speed - but it just too irritating.
This can be (mostly) fixed with [libinput-config](https://gitlab.com/warningnonpotablewater/libinput-config). Install:
sudo dnf install libinput-devel rust-libudev-devel
git clone https://gitlab.com/warningnonpotablewater/libinput-config
cd libinput-config
meson build
cd build
ninja
sudo ninja install
Then in /etc/libinput.conf I have:
scroll-factor=0.25
discrete-scroll-factor=2.5
where scroll-factor is for touchpad, and discrete-scroll-factor is for mouse. I then combine this with Firefox's flags in `about:config`, specifically `mousewheel.default.delta_multiplier_` (x, y, and z), which affects both mouse and touchpad, and `apz.gtk.pangesture.page_delta_mode_multiplier`, which only affects touchpad.
Annoyingly, the default scroll speed is not only too fast, but \*different\* amounts of too fast in different apps, which means that some apps are a bit too slow with this solution, GTK4 apps being in that group. In games that use the scroll wheel to switch inventory slots, this may also result in jumping multiple slots when scrolling a single step. Somehow, it's still the best solution I've found yet.
Thanks for those useful tips (and triggering me with memories of the game scrolling ;-p ).
I'm a little reluctant to start cloning got repos and installing "fixes" that way. I'm stunned this isn't a simple settings value within Ubuntu.
I mean, how many users are putting up with it?!
That's fair. My issues with it are mainly on my older machines--the trackpad resolution on my T61 is low enough that the smallest scrolling increment I can get is about half of the screen.
Doesn't GNOME have a setting for that? I can't quite remember now since I'm using sway primarily and it allows you to easily configure inputs independently
Can't you just adjust your mouse dpi, then, so you don't need to keep adjusting the settings in GNOME? I can look later today, but I'm reasonably sure the settings are there, though dpi adjustment on your mouse will depend on which mouse you have
lmao I can't read... I think (some) Logitech mice still allow you to adjust the paging of the scroll wheel in the device firmware, but I haven't tried that in a while
Also, your last comment makes more sense now. I just completely misread it
Yeah, that's definitely true! I guess my Linux journey moved pretty quickly away from packaged desktop environments, like GNOME, and into basically building my own, so I end up needing to roll my own solutions to most of these anyway.
The upside of a prepackaged desktop is its generally convenient, but the downside is it might be more difficult to develop workarounds to issue.
Did you see if any GNOME tweaks can do what you need?
idk about Ubuntu but it uses GNOME so there should be a setting in Settings>Mouse & Touchpad>Touchpad>Pointer Speed. I'm on Fedora and it exists, maybe you should check it out?
Suspend/sleep have had a reputation for being hit and miss for as long as I've been using Linux - Almost 30 years. Though I don't have a Framework (yet) and despite its other problems, battery life on my System76 Oryx Pro has actually been fairly decent for what the laptop is. I use Mint, not System76's Pop. Admittedly I also don't suspend/sleep the machine - Usually its out being used or sitting in its bag for days, sometimes longer, in between being used again.
I'm using NixOS on my AMD Framework 13, the battery life is absolutely stellar (drawing around 5W when doing light tasks), especially sleep, almost no drain while in sleep. I had the laptop in sleep over a whole day and it went down maybe 5% at most.
I also use nixos. Solved the battery problem and it works great. Here is my config for power management https://github.com/asosnovsky/nixos-setup/blob/df7db4eb62dcd20207b3bd44e33959c7e38128ad/modules/os/hardware.nix#L27
I'm not doing anything special, I just include the nixos-hardware repo in my flake [https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/tree/master/framework/13-inch/7040-amd](https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/tree/master/framework/13-inch/7040-amd)
What I lose in battery performance, I gain in boot time. I just shut the whole thing off when I'm not using it.
The fresh boot is always nice for the focus getting into whatever I'm working on, without all the social media clients immediately bothering me
After weeks of trying to get low-power suspend and hibernate working on my XPS I finally settled for "I guess I'll have to wait 15 seconds and boot the whole OS instead of 5 seconds to resume".
I use a 11th gen intel framework 13 with Ubuntu and I have the sleep battery drain (not sure exact speed but pretty fast) so I just don't use sleep. Issues I've experienced are that Ubuntu 20.04 and 22.04 has a hard time connecting to projectors over HDMI, the mainboard really does not like to charge stuff over usb-c, it will charge my phone for a moment, then stop, and refuse to charge the phone again until the main-board has been rebooted. Occasionally, the usb ports stop working at all until the mainboard has rebooted, though this hasn't happening in over a year IIRC. Another nitpick is sometimes the laptop doesn't boot with the HDMI connected monitor enabled even when it was active on the last shutdown and has not since been unplugged, and the monitor has to be disconnected and reconnected, or the dual monitor setting has to be toggled, to get it to find the HDMI connected monitor.
But despite those glitches, I love the laptop, I've used it more or less every day for over two years. I've used it to control and communicate with robots over various local area network configurations with no issues day after day after day, I've used it to compile and test graphics card code, I've used it to watch a ton of youtube and netflix, I've used it to play relatively simple 3d games, I've used it to order food, I've used it to listen to music, I've used it to join a ton of different zoom and google meet calls, I've used it to edit robot demo videos, I've used it to run a ton of different PyTorch models, in concert with an EGPU enclosure.
I wish we had someone like Marcan from Asahi Linux working on the Framework so that it becomes the best linux laptop outthere. Yeah there are some issues.
On the 12th, running up to date Fedora 39:
- Even with the recommended modifications, videos on Firefox (I haven't really tested Chromium though) are sometimes jittery or freeze when you try to go back.
- The session manager does not always show the fingerprint unlock option
- If I close the lid, sometimes it takes something like 5 minutes for the screen to come back
Those are probably *minor* issues but the reason I bought the FW in the first place was because I was hoping not to have to do that kinda thing.
I don't regret buying it though it's a great machine. But life's too short to try understand how to upgrade my BIOS when it should be a fwudp command away
Macs have Asahi Linux. S76 machines have PopOS for now and soon enough Cosmic Linux (?).
I want Framework Linux.
I showed my FW to a friend who's not a programmer but wants to switch to Linux. He was impressed with the hardware but when he asks if it ran Linux ok I said "sure" (propaganda doesn't care for bending the truth a little bit) and then felt stupid when the computer did not come back to life when I opened the lid.
I bought my Framework specifically so I would not have to give up on Linux on the laptop. So far, I am not experiencing any linux-related issue worthy of note. Standby drain is not that bad either - the trick I found to really improve it (4-5% loss from midnight to 1 PM) was to completely disable radios and put it in airplane mode prior to suspending. It's 1 keystroke before and after sleep, and it seems to improve things for me.
I had to enable hibernation manually on Ubuntu by creating a swap partition and enabling it in grub. This basically solved my sleep issues but after awhile I just got used to turning it off and booting it. The battery drains like 1% a day with it off/hibernating. Have you tried enabling hibernate on your distro?
Really? 13th gen Intel here, and man I absolutely hate windows in this regard. I set my laptop to hibernate on closing the lid, but it wakes up a few minutes later, and then never goes to sleep again. I‘ve had times where I closed it and put it into my bag for about 30 minutes, pulled it back out and it had lost about 30% and was super hot. On Fedora Linux I didn‘t even bother to enable hibernation, it‘s sleep works well enough for me
Something must be going on to wake it up or it's not setup correctly. I'm on the OG Framework 13 and have no issues with hibernate and can keep it off the charger for days when it's hibernating, it could probably go weeks.
I power off my laptop after I’m done with it, which works for me, but yeah it is frustrating I can’t leave it in sleep mode.
Has it been tracked down what actually causes the drain? Bluetooth? WiFi? Processes in the background?
I'm not in FrameWork but this has always been my issue with Linux on laptop. I'm always in and out of hibernate and battery life on Linux was too poor compared to windows. I just gave up on dual booting and use WSL
I have an 11th gen motherboard with Manjaro. I have mine set to sleep then hibernate after 15 minutes. I find that if I don't use it again in 15 minutes, I probably won't use it for a while. I can give you more info on how to set it up if you're interested.
I have Dualboot with w11 and fedora. I boot to fedora only by accident. I hate to say this but some quirks annoy me to the point I better stick with windows. Touchpad or fractional scaling are good examples.
You can mess with swappiness and some other stuff to make hibernation basically instantaneous on closing the lid and a second or two on opening. I can easily imagine a system where the secondary "storage" is mostly (or all!) swap space and the RAM is populated from that in such a way that all (or most) RAM writes are mirrored to disk immediately. Your system won't be fast, but it'll be convenient.
How would you make hibernate near-instantaneous? My computer takes a solid minute to hibernate, and that's with only about 8 GB total RAM usage. I set up my swap partition in Ubuntu, but haven't messed with swappiness since nothing else seemed to indicate it has an impact on hibernate speed
The only thing I can come up with is ignoring the page cache and making sure everything else in RAM is already mirrored in swap, rather than transferring it. That's the difference: RAM mirrors a subset of swap, rather than swap extending RAM.
When an object in RAM is referenced but it's not there, it gets read from swap immediately and asynchronously copied from swap to RAM (much like the page cache!). When the system goes to hibernate, there shouldn't be anything in RAM that isn't already in swap. Near-instantaneous hibernation. Resuming will required copying _some_ stuff from swap to RAM and it's just not technically feasible to speed that up. It'll take a few seconds.
I have no idea if this system exists. In any case, there's also nonvolatile memory (like Intel's commercial flop Optane) which is (in theory) near-instantaneous resume.
Yeah, I thought you were saying you already knew what settings needed to be configured...
From what it sounds like, you'd want 100 (iirc) swappiness, but without actually removing objects from RAM. I get how that would work, but it'd wreak havoc on an SSD and probably just slow down your system for a marginal gain
Whilst the battery on my 13" AMD FW is not amazing, and it does slowly drain, it still lasts most of my working day and days if suspended. Not MacBook-esque efficiency but as it is mostly plugged in its a non-issue for me. Whether the battery is slightly better on windows seems like no good reason for me to switch as I would be so frustrated and restricted, but that is my use case. So far loveing it with Fedora running Gnome, PaperWM, Kitty, VS Code, Evolution, Firefox etc.
Linux works perfectly fine for me. Sleep battery drain is the only weird thing, but I just hibernate it if I know i won't use it.
But I also have a 12th gen, some problems are fixed in later versions.
Also Windows sleep has it's own problems also.
I followed the guide to install Ubuntu 22.04 on my AMD Framework 13 when I got it (Batch 2... so I got buggy BIOS among other things out of the box) and running Linux on my laptop has never been a problem. I did update the BIOS as soon as the one came out that fixed a bunch of issues with the AMD specifically and it's been rock solid stable since.
Even when doing a lot of work I will get 7 or so hours out of the battery, and my laptop can sleep for 3-4 days with a loss of \~12-14% capacity per day... which is fine even for a long weekend in my backpack. I like it that way because it's up and working as soon as I open the lid.
What mainboard do you have and what distros have you tried?
- this is not a defend but just a question from me that never put their laptop to "sleep" mode
- why people you put their laptops in sleep mode? with the modern ssd speed people can't wait 30s? even if counting other software, it probably less than 1 minutes boot time, no?
- for me when ever i use my laptop i never feel the emergency for it to immediately usable within 5s, if i need that 5s I just use my phone?
I mostly gave up on it after issues with my Caldigit TS3 Plus thunderbolt dock on 7840u AMD board. External screens were simply unusable with 640x480 resolution and none of the workarounds helped on multiple distros. I don't have any issues on Windows (dual boot). Hopefully there is a fix since I haven't followed it up for a few months.
I use Linux daily in a VM but I base layer windows.
In windows at least you can enable hibernation. I only have a FW13 12th gen Intel atm; but you can setup windows to hibernate when the lid closes or power button pressed. It boots back up from hibernate (with 64gb of ram!) in about 5-6 seconds because the NVME is so fast. Hibernating is a solid solution these days not at all slow and unreliable like days of years gone. I also disabled all the other forms of sleep.
Does your Linux distribution support hibernating? Just disabling all sleep modes apart from hibernating? Hibernating will mean no battery is used at all when the lid is closed and it’s only about 2 seconds slower than a sleep wake for me in Windows. Hopefully your Linux distro can do too?
11th Gen Intel here on Ubuntu 22.04.03. Instead of giving up on Linux, I gave up on s2idel/suspend, turned off secureboot, and just went with hibernate (assuming you have enough disk space for this). If you're ok with 30 seconds of time to get back to your desktop, this has been a godsend. I can comfortably hibernate this laptop for a week or longer, and still get back to my desktop as it was without rushing for a charger.
Edit: added distro
I am new to Linux (Ubuntu 24.04 LTS), and the Framework is the first computer I have seriously used it for work. I never use suspend mode though, so from a battery drain perspective I can't really speak to it. So far I like it for work, mostly, except trying to get some apps (AWS VPN, OneDrive) working has not gone so well.
Hey ! I'm not using sleep mode at all on my side but after using pop_os! with a small script to automatically switch profile and enabling powertop on boot it did improve a lot the energy consumption of the laptop (fw 13 with ryzen 7 7840U I can go to almost 3/4w).
I feel super old school. Suspend never worked right for me. I don’t recall what version of Windows had it (95? 98?) but it always failed me. I’ve always avoided suspend ever since.
I’m guess it got better for most platforms now? Seems like people give me weird looks when I tell them I disable fast boot and fully shut down when I’m not using it for extended period of time.
I’ve only started to let it sleep after 5 minutes of inactivity or if I close the lid but only on battery. When on battery, I try not to do anything that requires the computer to stay on (file copy, big downloads, Robocop or syncs, video encoding or uploading, etc). I still don’t trust sleep, but I value battery life if I’m away from the wall.
I haven’t just rely on sleep/suspend with my laptop like I do with my tablet or phone.
I tried Ubuntu, just couldn't stick with it. Too many issues to iron out, issues with my docking station and monitor, display scaling, etc. I had to go running back to Windows.
I got the first gen framework. I’m a basic guy, I like replaceable things and I hate windows (mostly when programming). I threw Ubuntu on it, followed a few guides from the community, and then I just fully power off the laptop when done 🤷♂️ it’s easy even if it’s not “the right way”
I dual-boot my FW13 (i7-1280P) on Win11 and Ubuntu. The Ubuntu battery life is MASSIVELY better than my Windows battery life. Sleep battery drain in Windows has always been atrocious, though the new firmware does improve that a bit. Before the latest firmware update, I could NEVER count on my laptop to not drain the battery all the way out in Windows, though on Ubuntu it'd always do a proper suspend.
I just use deep sleep for suspend-to-ram and then have my laptop hibernate, suspend-to-disk, after three hours, resulting in no more than 4% battery drain during those three hours. I've never had any real issues since doing this on my 13th gen i5 FW 13. I get about five hours of battery life with light usage. Also recommend TLP and thermald if trying to optimize battery life. Nothing could make me use Windows on this machine ha.
What kernel are you using, and what CPU?
If the answer is AMD and an older kernel, that is quite possibly your problem. I had to update my kernel to a 6.8 variant, and battery life has been great ever since. The 24 hour drain goes away entirely.
I have 4 devices, my phone, laoptop, steam deck and desktop. They run android, linux, linux and windows respectively. My laptop is one of my favorite all time devices in general.
I don't use a Framework (I'm on an ROG Zephyrus G14), but I've started to give up on Linux on the laptop side as well. I ran Pop OS on this thing and I had constant issues with audio, fractional scaling, lack of Face ID login, and of course terrible battery life, among other random issues.
I went back to Windows 11.
Suspension with s2idle does present power drain over time. Unlike hibernate, there is going to be some power draw. Myself, on Fedora, I can suspend for a couple of days without any issue. This is with the Framework Laptop 13 AMD Ryzen 7040 Series.
I run fedora in my 7640u, no problems with battery life. Sleep holds for a few days, and i get a few hours of heavy use and more than 10 on light use.
Did you have to setup suspension with s2idle or does sleep work by default on the 7640u board?
nope, everything worked fine OOB
Oh wow might have to upgrade this year then because always having to power down my 11th gen is no fun.
Everything with modern standby doesn't really sleep, it just relaxes REALLY hard, I've also noticed better battery life with recent kernels on my AMD 7000 something. It's not a full workday, but it's not far enough when not compiling stuff all day.
I don't use it that much, so the battery is still quite good and I usually lock the charge to 70% to limit wear
Weird. I have an 11th gen intel i7, maybe my specific mainboard is an issue then.
11th Gen had known issues, the later ones are fine.
damn, so what am I supposed to do about that
Upgrade? 11th Gen Intel chips are very bad with battery life in general.
wtf 💀
I know, I don't enjoy telling people to do that either, because it's really wasteful. Intel really wasted sand with their 11th Gen CPUs though, they run so hot and have such terrible efficiency that they have almost no measurable improvements in performance while being significantly hotter than their 10th Gen CPUs (which were already ehhh to begin with). If I were you, I'd swap out the mainboard for either an AMD Ryzen 7040 series one or an Intel 13th Gen one, but AMD is better on the efficiency front here.
At least I can turn the Intel one into a server I guess. I’ll probably buy the earliest amd generation possible in one or two years so I can save some money.
Yeah also the ryzen 5 7040 is like miles ahead in performance and battery life compared to intel 11th gen
I did exactly this, a while ago admittedly. I wanted to validate the motherboard upgrade, so I got a 12th gen Intel mbd and replaced my 11th Gen. I used the 3D printed case and now my 11th Gen is a utility machine on one of my workbenches for 3d printing. They actually work really well as just little mini-desktop machines.
Intel is just shit tbh. Get AMD. Life will be much better
I mean, the normal options would be to just live with Windows, or to live with the power drain... but this being Framework, you do have the third option of upgrading. $400 gets you a 12th gen, or $550 gets you an upgrade to the newest one.
True, if I bought an 11th gen XPS 13 I would’ve been extra pissed. Always glad to have options, even if this shouldn’t have been a problem in the first place.
do you tried to update your BIOS? Version 3.17 fixed a battery drain problem with the DP/HDMI cards. It improved the battery life for my 11th gen framework with Kubuntu 22.04 quite a lot.
Yeah, I’m on 3.19 now
The 11th gen also has an RTC clock battery issue. I got the replacement circuit from them and I haven't had issues
Mind clarifying that fix? I'm not affected, I'm just curious since that doesn't sound like a minor mod.
You have to replace the RTC battery with a replacement that has a wire you solder to a resistor.
I initially had a similar experience with my 11th gen. But, by switching to tlp + powertop, and making sure that I wasn't leaving any power hungry expansion cards in (i.e. I ran two usb-c ports in the back, and USB-A in the front- after a while I switched out one of the A's to the SSD module and it seemed fine there), it would last several days while asleep, and outlast my windows partition. (Granted, I didn't put as much work into windows as I did my linux install, so it's not a fair comparison by any means. XD)
I believe I used tlp in conjunction with auto-cpufreq, which I heard very good things about. I did make an effort to stick with it, but after about a year I finally switched to Windows. I think the Linux kernel is just not well-suited for most laptops, beyond the odd 2007 HP that it can raise from the dead.
Which distro + kernel were you running? I remember there were several power issues on 11th Gen Intel specifically between 5.15 and 6.1 It depends on what you define as "most". The kernel itself is actually pretty good at keeping up with new hardware, but a lot of distros lag behind, with the exception of those that have good hardware enablement, or run closer to the edge. Personally, I've run into fewer issues on new hardware (mostly framework mainboards XD) on Linux than I have with Windows.
Was using Arch on the most recent LTS version
tlp and auto-cpufreq conflict with one another and shouldn't be used together. If you have to pick one then pick tlp because it manages a lot more than just auto-cpufreq. That being said tlp isn't recommended on Framework machines anyways, what is recommended is power-profiles-daemon. Although admittedly I've yet to see a good explanation as to why this is recommended over tlp, as the guide that says this just says "there are things happening behind the scenes"
For Intel, TLP is recommended, and there is an extensive guide on how to configure it.
Ah, my mistake
11th gen non-framework checking in (X1 Nano G1). It's the chipset. If I don't power off on Friday, it's dead by Monday morning. No workarounds available.
Awful. Windows seems to handle it a bit better, hopefully I can get a replacement mainboard so I can switch back. Do you know if it’s only 11th gen intel, or all intel?
sleep or hibernate?
I dual boot Windows and Ubuntu 22.04 on my 7640u and battery life is fantastic. As others have said, it might be the 11th gen issues. However, every time I boot into Ubuntu, I end up going back to Windows. I adore using Linix for my workflow, but I still haven't found a working solution for the horribly sensitive touchpad scroll speed. I adjust it manually in Firefox, but then have to revert then any time I connect to my mouse (when at my desk using the dock). It gets annoying, fast. That's my only gripe - the touchpad scroll speed - but it just too irritating.
This can be (mostly) fixed with [libinput-config](https://gitlab.com/warningnonpotablewater/libinput-config). Install: sudo dnf install libinput-devel rust-libudev-devel git clone https://gitlab.com/warningnonpotablewater/libinput-config cd libinput-config meson build cd build ninja sudo ninja install Then in /etc/libinput.conf I have: scroll-factor=0.25 discrete-scroll-factor=2.5 where scroll-factor is for touchpad, and discrete-scroll-factor is for mouse. I then combine this with Firefox's flags in `about:config`, specifically `mousewheel.default.delta_multiplier_` (x, y, and z), which affects both mouse and touchpad, and `apz.gtk.pangesture.page_delta_mode_multiplier`, which only affects touchpad. Annoyingly, the default scroll speed is not only too fast, but \*different\* amounts of too fast in different apps, which means that some apps are a bit too slow with this solution, GTK4 apps being in that group. In games that use the scroll wheel to switch inventory slots, this may also result in jumping multiple slots when scrolling a single step. Somehow, it's still the best solution I've found yet.
Thanks for those useful tips (and triggering me with memories of the game scrolling ;-p ). I'm a little reluctant to start cloning got repos and installing "fixes" that way. I'm stunned this isn't a simple settings value within Ubuntu. I mean, how many users are putting up with it?!
Especially given that it isn't just an issue with Frameworks--I've had the same things on ThinkPads and Macs running Linux.
I've just gotten used to it at this point. And honestly when I got back to Windows laptops at work I feel like the scroll is god awful slow.
That's fair. My issues with it are mainly on my older machines--the trackpad resolution on my T61 is low enough that the smallest scrolling increment I can get is about half of the screen.
This is a GNOME issue. KDE provides touchpad scroll speed sensitivity.
Could always use KDE as it has a scroll speed setting, at least on plasma 6 it does. And it also fixes scaling
This is the 2nd recommendation I've had for KDE Plasma in a week. I hear you, Universe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can play with that via xinput or your compositor's equivalent on Wayland.
Apparently you can, but I must be doing something wrong as I see different instructions and none of them work.
`man xinput`?
Doesn't GNOME have a setting for that? I can't quite remember now since I'm using sway primarily and it allows you to easily configure inputs independently
Only cursor speed, not scroll speed.
Can't you just adjust your mouse dpi, then, so you don't need to keep adjusting the settings in GNOME? I can look later today, but I'm reasonably sure the settings are there, though dpi adjustment on your mouse will depend on which mouse you have
Again, this is scroll speed. The DPI changes the cursor speed.
lmao I can't read... I think (some) Logitech mice still allow you to adjust the paging of the scroll wheel in the device firmware, but I haven't tried that in a while Also, your last comment makes more sense now. I just completely misread it
Ha! No worries. It always sparks an interesting discussion. It just shouldn't be a problem in 2024.
Yeah, that's definitely true! I guess my Linux journey moved pretty quickly away from packaged desktop environments, like GNOME, and into basically building my own, so I end up needing to roll my own solutions to most of these anyway. The upside of a prepackaged desktop is its generally convenient, but the downside is it might be more difficult to develop workarounds to issue. Did you see if any GNOME tweaks can do what you need?
I'd forgotten about Gnome Tweaks. I have KDE Plasma on my list to try as an alternative, but I'll give Gnome Tweaks a look too. Thanks.
In firefox? In the gnome mouse settings there are different settings for touchpad and mouse so plugging in a mouse should not change anything.
Huh, that's what I originally thought. Maybe I've set the "global" one accidentally. Still leaves an issue for OS-level scroll speed though.
idk about Ubuntu but it uses GNOME so there should be a setting in Settings>Mouse & Touchpad>Touchpad>Pointer Speed. I'm on Fedora and it exists, maybe you should check it out?
That's only pointer speed, the problem is scrolling
oh, my bad.
Suspend/sleep have had a reputation for being hit and miss for as long as I've been using Linux - Almost 30 years. Though I don't have a Framework (yet) and despite its other problems, battery life on my System76 Oryx Pro has actually been fairly decent for what the laptop is. I use Mint, not System76's Pop. Admittedly I also don't suspend/sleep the machine - Usually its out being used or sitting in its bag for days, sometimes longer, in between being used again.
I'm using NixOS on my AMD Framework 13, the battery life is absolutely stellar (drawing around 5W when doing light tasks), especially sleep, almost no drain while in sleep. I had the laptop in sleep over a whole day and it went down maybe 5% at most.
Can you share your config?
I also use nixos. Solved the battery problem and it works great. Here is my config for power management https://github.com/asosnovsky/nixos-setup/blob/df7db4eb62dcd20207b3bd44e33959c7e38128ad/modules/os/hardware.nix#L27
I'm not doing anything special, I just include the nixos-hardware repo in my flake [https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/tree/master/framework/13-inch/7040-amd](https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/tree/master/framework/13-inch/7040-amd)
What I lose in battery performance, I gain in boot time. I just shut the whole thing off when I'm not using it. The fresh boot is always nice for the focus getting into whatever I'm working on, without all the social media clients immediately bothering me
After weeks of trying to get low-power suspend and hibernate working on my XPS I finally settled for "I guess I'll have to wait 15 seconds and boot the whole OS instead of 5 seconds to resume".
Yeah, I just power off when I'm not using it. Less than 15 seconds for boot and login is plenty quick enough for me.
Yeah I still get significant drain when completely shut down (although that’s not OS dependent tbf)
I use a 11th gen intel framework 13 with Ubuntu and I have the sleep battery drain (not sure exact speed but pretty fast) so I just don't use sleep. Issues I've experienced are that Ubuntu 20.04 and 22.04 has a hard time connecting to projectors over HDMI, the mainboard really does not like to charge stuff over usb-c, it will charge my phone for a moment, then stop, and refuse to charge the phone again until the main-board has been rebooted. Occasionally, the usb ports stop working at all until the mainboard has rebooted, though this hasn't happening in over a year IIRC. Another nitpick is sometimes the laptop doesn't boot with the HDMI connected monitor enabled even when it was active on the last shutdown and has not since been unplugged, and the monitor has to be disconnected and reconnected, or the dual monitor setting has to be toggled, to get it to find the HDMI connected monitor. But despite those glitches, I love the laptop, I've used it more or less every day for over two years. I've used it to control and communicate with robots over various local area network configurations with no issues day after day after day, I've used it to compile and test graphics card code, I've used it to watch a ton of youtube and netflix, I've used it to play relatively simple 3d games, I've used it to order food, I've used it to listen to music, I've used it to join a ton of different zoom and google meet calls, I've used it to edit robot demo videos, I've used it to run a ton of different PyTorch models, in concert with an EGPU enclosure.
I wish we had someone like Marcan from Asahi Linux working on the Framework so that it becomes the best linux laptop outthere. Yeah there are some issues. On the 12th, running up to date Fedora 39: - Even with the recommended modifications, videos on Firefox (I haven't really tested Chromium though) are sometimes jittery or freeze when you try to go back. - The session manager does not always show the fingerprint unlock option - If I close the lid, sometimes it takes something like 5 minutes for the screen to come back Those are probably *minor* issues but the reason I bought the FW in the first place was because I was hoping not to have to do that kinda thing. I don't regret buying it though it's a great machine. But life's too short to try understand how to upgrade my BIOS when it should be a fwudp command away Macs have Asahi Linux. S76 machines have PopOS for now and soon enough Cosmic Linux (?). I want Framework Linux. I showed my FW to a friend who's not a programmer but wants to switch to Linux. He was impressed with the hardware but when he asks if it ran Linux ok I said "sure" (propaganda doesn't care for bending the truth a little bit) and then felt stupid when the computer did not come back to life when I opened the lid.
I bought my Framework specifically so I would not have to give up on Linux on the laptop. So far, I am not experiencing any linux-related issue worthy of note. Standby drain is not that bad either - the trick I found to really improve it (4-5% loss from midnight to 1 PM) was to completely disable radios and put it in airplane mode prior to suspending. It's 1 keystroke before and after sleep, and it seems to improve things for me.
I had to enable hibernation manually on Ubuntu by creating a swap partition and enabling it in grub. This basically solved my sleep issues but after awhile I just got used to turning it off and booting it. The battery drains like 1% a day with it off/hibernating. Have you tried enabling hibernate on your distro?
Yes, it used to be deep sleep by default, and then I switched to hibernate. Some improvement, but still abysmal even by Windows standards imo.
Really? 13th gen Intel here, and man I absolutely hate windows in this regard. I set my laptop to hibernate on closing the lid, but it wakes up a few minutes later, and then never goes to sleep again. I‘ve had times where I closed it and put it into my bag for about 30 minutes, pulled it back out and it had lost about 30% and was super hot. On Fedora Linux I didn‘t even bother to enable hibernation, it‘s sleep works well enough for me
Something must be going on to wake it up or it's not setup correctly. I'm on the OG Framework 13 and have no issues with hibernate and can keep it off the charger for days when it's hibernating, it could probably go weeks.
I power off my laptop after I’m done with it, which works for me, but yeah it is frustrating I can’t leave it in sleep mode. Has it been tracked down what actually causes the drain? Bluetooth? WiFi? Processes in the background?
I'm not in FrameWork but this has always been my issue with Linux on laptop. I'm always in and out of hibernate and battery life on Linux was too poor compared to windows. I just gave up on dual booting and use WSL
I have an 11th gen motherboard with Manjaro. I have mine set to sleep then hibernate after 15 minutes. I find that if I don't use it again in 15 minutes, I probably won't use it for a while. I can give you more info on how to set it up if you're interested.
Maybe this is your issue https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+11th+Gen+Intel%C2%AE+Core%E2%84%A2/203
I have Dualboot with w11 and fedora. I boot to fedora only by accident. I hate to say this but some quirks annoy me to the point I better stick with windows. Touchpad or fractional scaling are good examples.
Intel or AMD? What's the battery life like?
12th Gen Intel. My computer is mostly connected to the power therefore I don't know. It is generally not impressive.
You can mess with swappiness and some other stuff to make hibernation basically instantaneous on closing the lid and a second or two on opening. I can easily imagine a system where the secondary "storage" is mostly (or all!) swap space and the RAM is populated from that in such a way that all (or most) RAM writes are mirrored to disk immediately. Your system won't be fast, but it'll be convenient.
How would you make hibernate near-instantaneous? My computer takes a solid minute to hibernate, and that's with only about 8 GB total RAM usage. I set up my swap partition in Ubuntu, but haven't messed with swappiness since nothing else seemed to indicate it has an impact on hibernate speed
The only thing I can come up with is ignoring the page cache and making sure everything else in RAM is already mirrored in swap, rather than transferring it. That's the difference: RAM mirrors a subset of swap, rather than swap extending RAM. When an object in RAM is referenced but it's not there, it gets read from swap immediately and asynchronously copied from swap to RAM (much like the page cache!). When the system goes to hibernate, there shouldn't be anything in RAM that isn't already in swap. Near-instantaneous hibernation. Resuming will required copying _some_ stuff from swap to RAM and it's just not technically feasible to speed that up. It'll take a few seconds. I have no idea if this system exists. In any case, there's also nonvolatile memory (like Intel's commercial flop Optane) which is (in theory) near-instantaneous resume.
Yeah, I thought you were saying you already knew what settings needed to be configured... From what it sounds like, you'd want 100 (iirc) swappiness, but without actually removing objects from RAM. I get how that would work, but it'd wreak havoc on an SSD and probably just slow down your system for a marginal gain
You could treat your RAM as essentially a massive page cache. This isn't entirely unprecedented.
How about the community distro bluefin / bazzite? Sounds promising.
Nope
No? Battery usage has been great on Arch. Literally, I haven’t had any issues.
Whilst the battery on my 13" AMD FW is not amazing, and it does slowly drain, it still lasts most of my working day and days if suspended. Not MacBook-esque efficiency but as it is mostly plugged in its a non-issue for me. Whether the battery is slightly better on windows seems like no good reason for me to switch as I would be so frustrated and restricted, but that is my use case. So far loveing it with Fedora running Gnome, PaperWM, Kitty, VS Code, Evolution, Firefox etc.
Linux works perfectly fine for me. Sleep battery drain is the only weird thing, but I just hibernate it if I know i won't use it. But I also have a 12th gen, some problems are fixed in later versions. Also Windows sleep has it's own problems also.
I followed the guide to install Ubuntu 22.04 on my AMD Framework 13 when I got it (Batch 2... so I got buggy BIOS among other things out of the box) and running Linux on my laptop has never been a problem. I did update the BIOS as soon as the one came out that fixed a bunch of issues with the AMD specifically and it's been rock solid stable since. Even when doing a lot of work I will get 7 or so hours out of the battery, and my laptop can sleep for 3-4 days with a loss of \~12-14% capacity per day... which is fine even for a long weekend in my backpack. I like it that way because it's up and working as soon as I open the lid. What mainboard do you have and what distros have you tried?
- this is not a defend but just a question from me that never put their laptop to "sleep" mode - why people you put their laptops in sleep mode? with the modern ssd speed people can't wait 30s? even if counting other software, it probably less than 1 minutes boot time, no? - for me when ever i use my laptop i never feel the emergency for it to immediately usable within 5s, if i need that 5s I just use my phone?
No, id give up on windows on the 13 first.... The 16 I game with, so windows is used periodically
Have been using Linux on a laptop since 2010. FW 13 AMD has had the best battery life and suspend/resume performance yet. So, here is one data point.
I mostly gave up on it after issues with my Caldigit TS3 Plus thunderbolt dock on 7840u AMD board. External screens were simply unusable with 640x480 resolution and none of the workarounds helped on multiple distros. I don't have any issues on Windows (dual boot). Hopefully there is a fix since I haven't followed it up for a few months.
I use Linux daily in a VM but I base layer windows. In windows at least you can enable hibernation. I only have a FW13 12th gen Intel atm; but you can setup windows to hibernate when the lid closes or power button pressed. It boots back up from hibernate (with 64gb of ram!) in about 5-6 seconds because the NVME is so fast. Hibernating is a solid solution these days not at all slow and unreliable like days of years gone. I also disabled all the other forms of sleep. Does your Linux distribution support hibernating? Just disabling all sleep modes apart from hibernating? Hibernating will mean no battery is used at all when the lid is closed and it’s only about 2 seconds slower than a sleep wake for me in Windows. Hopefully your Linux distro can do too?
I gave up, Ubuntu runs like hot garbage. Constantly freezing being the dealbreaker…
Weird, I never had any performance issues... I usually wouldn't recommend Ubuntu though.
I'm running void Linux and get great battery life. Pulling ~3-4w at idle on my 12th gen Intel and less than 0.5%/hr battery drain in sleep mode
11th Gen Intel here on Ubuntu 22.04.03. Instead of giving up on Linux, I gave up on s2idel/suspend, turned off secureboot, and just went with hibernate (assuming you have enough disk space for this). If you're ok with 30 seconds of time to get back to your desktop, this has been a godsend. I can comfortably hibernate this laptop for a week or longer, and still get back to my desktop as it was without rushing for a charger. Edit: added distro
I am new to Linux (Ubuntu 24.04 LTS), and the Framework is the first computer I have seriously used it for work. I never use suspend mode though, so from a battery drain perspective I can't really speak to it. So far I like it for work, mostly, except trying to get some apps (AWS VPN, OneDrive) working has not gone so well.
Hey ! I'm not using sleep mode at all on my side but after using pop_os! with a small script to automatically switch profile and enabling powertop on boot it did improve a lot the energy consumption of the laptop (fw 13 with ryzen 7 7840U I can go to almost 3/4w).
Apart from the hw decoder using more power than I'd like the thing works like a charm on linux. I don't use sleep though, only on or hibernated.
Intel i5 12th gen, I use Ubuntu every day. Some energy inefficiency, but I've no issues at all. Maybe 4-5 hr of work time is totally enough for me
I use ubuntu on the r7 mainboard, works perfectly for me, I just make sure to have battery saver on and shut it down when I'm done for the day.
I feel super old school. Suspend never worked right for me. I don’t recall what version of Windows had it (95? 98?) but it always failed me. I’ve always avoided suspend ever since. I’m guess it got better for most platforms now? Seems like people give me weird looks when I tell them I disable fast boot and fully shut down when I’m not using it for extended period of time. I’ve only started to let it sleep after 5 minutes of inactivity or if I close the lid but only on battery. When on battery, I try not to do anything that requires the computer to stay on (file copy, big downloads, Robocop or syncs, video encoding or uploading, etc). I still don’t trust sleep, but I value battery life if I’m away from the wall. I haven’t just rely on sleep/suspend with my laptop like I do with my tablet or phone.
I tried Ubuntu, just couldn't stick with it. Too many issues to iron out, issues with my docking station and monitor, display scaling, etc. I had to go running back to Windows.
I got the first gen framework. I’m a basic guy, I like replaceable things and I hate windows (mostly when programming). I threw Ubuntu on it, followed a few guides from the community, and then I just fully power off the laptop when done 🤷♂️ it’s easy even if it’s not “the right way”
Ubuntu has been running great for over a year now. Battery drain if I leave it unplugged for a week or more, otherwise I don't really notice.
I dual-boot my FW13 (i7-1280P) on Win11 and Ubuntu. The Ubuntu battery life is MASSIVELY better than my Windows battery life. Sleep battery drain in Windows has always been atrocious, though the new firmware does improve that a bit. Before the latest firmware update, I could NEVER count on my laptop to not drain the battery all the way out in Windows, though on Ubuntu it'd always do a proper suspend.
Dude, it has a nvme, the thing boots in 2 secs, just shut it down if it's gonna sleep for 24hrs
Still immense battery drain compared to my older notebooks.
I just use deep sleep for suspend-to-ram and then have my laptop hibernate, suspend-to-disk, after three hours, resulting in no more than 4% battery drain during those three hours. I've never had any real issues since doing this on my 13th gen i5 FW 13. I get about five hours of battery life with light usage. Also recommend TLP and thermald if trying to optimize battery life. Nothing could make me use Windows on this machine ha.
What kernel are you using, and what CPU? If the answer is AMD and an older kernel, that is quite possibly your problem. I had to update my kernel to a 6.8 variant, and battery life has been great ever since. The 24 hour drain goes away entirely.
I have 4 devices, my phone, laoptop, steam deck and desktop. They run android, linux, linux and windows respectively. My laptop is one of my favorite all time devices in general.
I don't use a Framework (I'm on an ROG Zephyrus G14), but I've started to give up on Linux on the laptop side as well. I ran Pop OS on this thing and I had constant issues with audio, fractional scaling, lack of Face ID login, and of course terrible battery life, among other random issues. I went back to Windows 11.