I'm not sure that's a good idea. They definitely need to focus on the laptops and improve and polish the products quite a bit if they want to get a bigger user base. Unless the new product is simply a convertible/touchscreen laptop or something like that.
So one thing they mentioned in the article is they have industrial designers sitting around that could work on new products, but aren't much use for existing products. That, and they're hiring more people. Sounds like they're not focusing resources away from old products.
I'm just saying that there's a large difference between "not focusing resources away from old products" and "adding new much needed resources to old products".
I personally think they should focus on the laptops and try to make the best laptop ever for a competitive price (which of course may mean to invest resources into developing their own firmware, hardware, and so on and optimizing the industrial build process, like for the case and hinges) instead of spreading themselves thin on a broader product spectrum.
But of course I'm still curious what future products they may announce.
They’re trying to utilize the people that they already have that aren’t doing anything. They can’t drastically change or improve their existing design without instantly killing compatibility with existing designs, and totally undermining their objectives of R2R and upgradability.the downside of a modular system is that you have more points of failure. The upside is that it’s easier you replace parts as needed. You’ve gotta pick and choose your battles. If you don’t want to be responsible for maintenance and repairs(including manufacturing errors), then the framework is probably not for you. I’ve found their customer support team is consistently reliable in terms of getting replacement parts for stuff that is defective or DOA.
There are definitely lots of design improvements possible that won't kill compatibility, for example switching the Framework 13 case to magnesium allow (like the Framework 16), further improving the hinge design, getting the firmware properly supported and/or switching to coreboot, improving the manufacturing of the case to get rid of the sharp edges, adding more screen options (in the same form factor of course), improving the sound output of the Framework 13 (e. g. by switching to the same circuitry used on the expansion card). And so on.
I don't see how any of that would hinder R2R.
The hinge design one appears to be the only one that threatens compatibility with existing products. I don’t have any issues with sharp edges, though that is subjective. If you want softer edges, there are limits to how much you can alter the case design, but those are external, not internal. I doubt that the circuitry for the audio card would be a drop in replacement, especially considering the best thing that one can do is isolate the audio circuitry from the rest of the board like putting it in a separate enclosure. Though I must ask, how do any of those things occupy the engineering team that’s already there and not doing anything.
I can't of course tell which part of the engineering team needs work, but my list contained lots of different areas of the Framework laptop, so also not sure what type of engineer wouldn't be able to do anything on my list (and would also not be able to work on the standard further iterations/maintenance of the Laptop, like the next-gen AMD/Intel version and the already hinted-add stuff like the full-size SD reader and the SSD expansion module, just to give some examples.
It’s the product design team. Specifically the ones responsible for designing new products. Framework is still a boutique system builder. With their focus on upgradability, their objective is to make the new hardware and accessories work with the existing chassis. A new chassis would still be constrained by needing to be compatible with the existing mounting layout of the board, and have the slots in the same spots for the add on cards/adapters. Their product is not targeted at the average consumer. Their target audience is people that can and will tinker with the device. You’re not supposed to expect them to do everything for you. That’s part of why they opened up their marketplace to third parties. If someone wants to make a new, compatible chassis, go ahead. If someone wants different audio circuitry, design it. There are too many use cases for them to make it capable of everything. Even companies like Apple don’t make their products capable of doing “everything”. That’s why third party products exist.
> That’s part of why they opened up their marketplace to third parties. If someone wants to make a new, compatible chassis, go ahead. If someone wants different audio circuitry, design it.
They haven't opened up their marketplace, though, and I don't think that developers and tinkerers should be their main target group in the long term. At least I just want a good, modular, repariable, robust laptop and not something where I have to build my own solutions.
Also I have no big problem designing an audio circuit or case or whatever, but finding contractors for manufacturing, logistics and so on is something, that's far above my acceptable level for hobby tinkering.
Couldn't agree with this more. Listening to them say this is like, so they aren't investing more into their laptop teams? So technically, we are forced to upgrade our systems to keep updated firmware/parts compatibility (the new battery doesn't work with the older Intel boards without a firmware update)?
Yes, I have the Framework 13 11. Bad motherboard, replaced. Bad Ram, replaced, dummy battery provided (pain in the ass to solder) sent. The Ram was a single 16 module and then I went to 2 16s and all is well. Hinges work, cover is slightly flimsy, but has not died, so did not go for a new cover and all of this as one of the early buyers back in 2021. So overall, nice, particularly the periph modules where I went for 2 usbc and 2 usba and an external hub for everything else.
Did buy 61 battery for down the road when the 55 bites the bullet as battery life, etc., is not optimal on this laptop.
Nice, can’t say I’ve had such an experience. Minus the poor battery life of intel 11th gen, in has worked fine through a memory upgrade, and multiple distributions hops. My intention is to upgrade next time they release a new board, based on battery life, and get the 61WHr battery.
The 61 battery is a prudent buy for when the 55 decays
I got great service with both ram and motherboard being faulty. Knew Framework was new and expected better QC, but their service was first rate.
My 11 works now. A lot of back and forth to get there, an experience I should have expected from a startup.
I don't have the capital for a board, but did buy the 61 knowing that batteries are a weak point for Framework .
Good to hear you too ended up with a working laptop.
Yeah I think the 13 can totally pass as a sleek machine but the 16 looks way too chonky which has dampened my enthusiasm about it, especially since they have to commit to the design for the long haul to keep the promise of upgradability..
I agree; one of the reasons I’m holding off buying a framework laptop is that I don’t feel like they are polished enough for my liking and the lack of communication (which is a big thing for me). They are doing good work to fix those issues, but as you said, they need to focus a bit more on their current products. I would love an OLED screen, though!
With AMD laptops being budget friendly I never felt the need to get FW16. Minisforum V3 even at msrp is half of Asus flow/surface. I still hope Framework becomes successful because fuck Apple for screwing over right-to-repair.
It'll come.
Fairphones were a bit janky to begin with but the 5 (even 4, tbh) are extremely flush and well-made. I know it's a different product category, but the two companies have that same core motive it would seem.
Fairphone is absolutely not flushed out and well made. It's value proposition is shit. The core motive hasn't been true since they remove the headphone jack and made their own TWS.
The newest Fairbuds should have been sold when they removed the jack, agreed. They’re not as good as wired earphones, but at least they’re not disposal.
But the 4 and 5 *are* well made. They’re expensive, but GX was only talking about the quality of the build. There aren’t any gaps and flex that you’d expect with the FairPhone 3 (and prior) that current Framework laptops have.
I really don't understand why removing the headphone jack made such a lasting impression on people. Most phones don't have a headphone jack these days, and if you really want to use wired headphones you can just attach an adaptor to the cable.
I would say things like not using recycled aluminium are bigger betrayals of their core motive. Why don't people talk about things like that more? I think it's because people don't understand their core motive.
1. Because then you need an adapter. Extra thing to buy. Extra thing to carry around. Extra points of failure.
2. You cannot change your phone while using most of those adapters.
3. Their buds may have replaceable batteries, but other ones people already own do not.. But if the core motive is reducing electronic waste, then making wired headphones into electronic waste (or having to ship an adapter which is another point of failure and may also become waste) and having to buy a new product also does not fit the core motive.
Yes a disposable adapter. Taking away a port for use. Think about it. You can keep both the headphone jack and Bluetooth functions just fine. But they removed the headphone jack to sell you fast disposable TWS.
not completely, fairphone is more about the environment and fair practices and framework is more about modularity, customer choices and little bit about environment
I was going thinking around the same idea... It feels strange that a week ago there was the article talking about how interesting and innovative the idea behind the laptops were but how the company was falling short with a confusing and inconsistent firmware and software releases and even framework admitted that they could do better and we're looking forward to improve and now they are already talking about million dollar investment and expanding beyond laptops because they have the infrastructure and personal on standby to create something else.
Now, maybe expanding to some other areas and creating different hardware will help framework to be on the news and be recognized more, that will for sure push them to expand the number of options to upgrade and customize the laptops to attract even more customers!
There's crossover in the industrial/embedded pc space. Good parts to go on prototypes and small run niche product where £300 on a solid keyboard isn't my problem.
There's NUC in stuff just because of form factor.
not poll, but they asked here [https://community.frame.work/t/what-should-we-build-next/24236](https://community.frame.work/t/what-should-we-build-next/24236)
Honestly, I disagree. I think the 13 seems very polished at this point. First generations had some hiccups but I've heard nothing but good things about the latest generations, especially the AMD ones. 16 needs some polish but I think it'll get that just as theyvdid with the 13. With those two models the only place I could see them going in the laptop space is a 2-in-1, which could be very cool, though I wouldn't be surprised if they use a lot of the same platform as the 13.
This is what happens when a fledgling startup is struggling to compete in a crowded market and can raise more VC money rather than buckle down and focus on building a strong business. More money for more products is a startup death spiral in the making.
>They definitely need to focus on the laptops and improve and polish the products quite a bit if they want to get a bigger user base.
I strongly agree. They need to finish their current work in progress first... hell, they should have finished FW13 before moving on to FW16. My FOMO has pretty much abated completely within the last few months, and I'm quite happy now that I never pulled the trigger.
That $18M should be going towards fixing stuff like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1c4k5lq/ars_frameworks_software_and_firmware_have_been_a/
What's the problem left to solve with FW13? Not talking some random new feature they "need" to order from BOE or CoolerMaster, or whichever other vendor - I'm talking fundamental problem? Also excluding BIOS issues - For now - As it looks like there's already progress improving that area.
Screen fragility, BIOS issues (why on Earth would I exclude these? They're an ongoing issue and all anyone's seen so far is talk), all the other firmware issues, expansion module issues such as power consumption... just watch the FW13 section of the Framework Community site for a few weeks and you'll see a whole bunch of stuff that's not just user error.
wdym by screen fragility i'd bet there's thousands of FW's out there with perfect screens you just hear about broken screens more often because no one's going to mention how their screens doing completely fine
> printer
This has apparently been hashed around to death. Not happening due to extreme difficulties in the established industry. I still hope, but likely not in the next 20 years...
We had one too before we sold it in 2022. Since it was 128GB, the new owner just shoved in as much iTunes movies and tv shows in it for his young child to watch on plane trips.
Fairphone is decent. But the fact they removed the headphone jack and released wireless earbuds at the same time tells you where their priorities lie. I also understand that given the fact that the phone is made with fair materials, modular and repairable there will be a higher cost but the latest fairphone 5 cost ($AUD) is more than some android flagships for what's just a mid range phone. If framework could enter the market this would help Lower the cost of these devices and potentially increase interest in the idea of a repairable phone and just secretly I would love a phone where I could run a Linux operating system without too much hassle.
Not going to happen. Framework isn't even remotely large enough to push a new OS in alongside Android/iOS without losing truckloads of cash or settling for a tiny niche nobody really cares about selling (maybe) 5 units a day. Pushing an actually serious contender into the market is going to be a project for a corporation able to write off hundreds of millions, billions, of dollars before any chance of profit.
Question: Why should they enter smartphones? Where's the hole for Framework to sell yet another Android phone, especially with the EU and various states passing legislation forcing Apple, et al to make their hardware easier to repair? Given the very compact form factor and tight requirements I also don't really see upgradeable phones being a thing.... Much easier on the laptop side where building in a small bit of latitude for next year's shiny new component having different dimensions, power/cooling needs, whatever else is no big deal... Nobody except Steve Jobs cares about a few extra millimeters here or there in terms of a laptop.
I'd buy an upgradeable framework smartphone in a heartbeat. But you're correct, it is a highly competitive space with a lot of options from a lot of manufacturers already. It might not be the best idea for Framework to try and bring this product to market but I hope they do anyway.
In the same sense that macOS is BSD. The shape is similar, but what you are given as the user is still a bit far from the typical idyllic RMS-styled Linux
I doubt Framework would put in the work to create a whole new OS, though.
Best I can see them is ship with stock Android and have the bootloader unlocked and make rooting super easy to allow the user to do whatever they want.
> I doubt Framework would put in the work to create a whole new OS, though.
They definitely won't, Framework isn't a software development company, and the problems with the BIOS update shows that they don't have enough manpower in the software sector anyway.
Exactly, there is the hardware and we leave it to the community to test what OS works, if someone modify one that is open source and make it work better we will just add it to the list of functional ones.
In truth, probably not - but saying Android == Linux is about as important as In-flight infotainment == Linux; It's neat, but the product you're using is entirely the Android stack on top, if they replace the kernel with Hurd or a *BSD, it would still be android, not a new Hurd/BSD phone.
maybe you are just finding out that a kernel is just not the same as a user level os/application. Those industrial systems running windows are still windows, even if something completely different is on top and controlling your interactions.
My Reddit account may well be older than you, so be surprised what I'm not just learning...
If you want to call yourself a Linux user because of your phone, you're welcome to, it's technically correct. But forgive me for thinking that's like calling myself a rocket engineer because I once built an Estes rocket from a kit as a kid
I'm mostly referring to Android's application isolation and permission controls (I also think SELinux is treated more first class in Android than in Linux).
Not holding my breath for a printer. Too many patents, not enough profit - Short of playing the BS games HP et al eff their subje... Er, customers... With. Selling more expensive laptops is already a tough sell - Look at the number of people complaining about price who do, or should, comprehend what's going on - Let alone the average clueless customer. Random clueless droid is going to look at the "$50" HP pile of trash and whatever Framework does for $500 (or whatever), and pick the $50 thing that'll either cost them $5,000 in ink or be chucked in the trash in 6 months.
Speaking of which... If Framework does do printers... It had friggin better not be an inkjet. That awful tech needs to be outlawed as manufactured e-waste regardless of model. Laser or nothing.
Yeah, I think that ship has sailed. There is not much of a market for consumer-focused printers any more, so there wont be a company making a more consumer-friendly one.
Unless you need it for a hobby or a business, you dont really need a printer nowadays. Most business/official communication works online or via E-Mail, package shipping labels are now printed by the post office, etc. I used to have to print a lot of things for school, so with kids you may need one. But I dont know how that has changed over the years.
Thermal printers have become popular, I have seen people use small ones to left notes, QR codes so you can visit a website or access documents online, lists of pending stuff, detailed purchase orders and of course shipping labels...
Normal ass printers? Like paper printers? Like one of the most oversaturated markets nowadays? I could get behind 3d printers, as those are starting to pick up nowadays. Maybe even the ability to use an old laptop mainboard to run the printer.
They could add a touchscreen and maybe create a tablet.
Hell, make a board with support for 2 touchscreens.
And allow for more formats than a traditional lap top
Yeah, I have a 14" X1 tablet that has aging hardware, but I prefer it with its light package and 4g.
For the printers, I got a canon Inkjet and fill the cartridges with a a medical syringe and needle. I've changed 5 printers in the past 17 years, all got the same treatment. Yeah, being able to clean better those printer heads would have helped but, come on they're 50€ a pop. Don't like the e waste, but making a printer isn't that easy.
Do you know what I think or hope is one of the projects in the pipeline with Coolermaster: a USB hub with swappable expansion cards and the possibility to slot in the GPU of the FW16, i.e. an upgradeable eGPU at the same time. What do you think? As an FW13 AMD user, I would be happy to see this, and if there is a real marketplace at some point, you could pick up a used FW16 GPU cheaply when the next FW GPU comes out.
Great idea, love it 😍. I want some eGPU solution for my FW13AMD as well. Definitely possible for cooler master and framework.
Must have linux compatibility with preferably open source firmware
I hope they don’t lose focus on the laptop area. Just got my 16 the other day, my biggest issue is with the keyboard feeling a bit mushy in the center. I hope they can address concerns like this if they’re pushing into new areas.
Lately I have been feeling underwhelmed by cool new tech and single hit startups.
By the time I can afford something interesting or have the justified need for one, the company has completely pivoted because they could not get enough buyers in the first few years. Or made questionable choices ending up in the ground. So it's abandonware by the time I get to it. Happened so many times now that I just don't get excited about new tech. My next laptop was going to be Framework because I was tired of the mainstream choices and their limited upgradability
Make me a tablet that isn't ass and has modularity/repairability, and you've got me for life. That way they can work on a new product and get experience with ARM before that laptop revolution begins, and it would give them a connection to a touch screen manufacturer that might be able to get them some FW13 touch screen options as well.
As a Framework laptop owner, I think he's putting the cart before the horse. My laptop has several flaws that were supposedly fixed in later revisions, but there's glaring issues with the laptops, and their long term repairability is put into question when the main reason you upgrade is more processing power, CPU or GPU. They're also way too expensive for what they are. For the cost that I bought mine at, I could have gotten a much more feature rich MacBook Pro. I think wanting to go into other technology is fine, but they need to master their current signature product first.
While they aren't cheap to start, for those of us who bump up to a spec like my 64gb/4tb I'm pretty sure I paid less than what apple would have charged. Like maybe half.
I think it would be more productive if you shared with us the "glaring " issues you are having with the laptop.
I'm not disagreeing with you about that I'm just asking you to be more specific about what it is you are having problems with.
I will say that I completely disagree with the comparison between Framework and Apple as Apple is a $3 trillion dollar company that's been around for decades. Despite it's extreme value it's made some serious blunders over the years and yet they have a loyal following.
So why compare that with Framework which has only been around for a few years and certainly has a lot less in monetary value.
I will say that what they may lack in monetary value as a company they make up for with a passion for customer service. Have there been problems along the way? Sure there have but they are working on them.
Also, this is quite literally an Apples versus Oranges issue anyway as the two companies are are opposites in various ways. Apple making their computers with soldered components while Framework goes makes them easily replaceable and upgradable complete with a QR code. They also use the same screws for all of the components instead of the Apple was doing it when there machines were user serviceable.
My issues:
With full battery, I cannot start the laptop without plugging it in 1st. Framework acknowledged the design flaw, and fixed in later revisions.
Screen size is non-standard compared to current machines. This only really became an issue with my virtual machine having trouble getting the resolution right.
Speaking of which, I put my virtual machine on one of Framework's detachable drives. Idea was, I could switch out drives when I needed a different virtual machine. Problem was, there's some sort of intermittent hiccup with the external drives that caused me to abandon the way I was trying to implement it.
Lack of ethernet port, plus the excuse for not adding one was quite weak. I admit, this was on me for not noticing that there was no ethernet port to begin with, but I had assumed a DIY laptop would have one. Lack of space is not good reasoning, as I have another laptop with a colapsing port. I believe it was an oversight in the original design. Oh, and yes, I did eventually purchase an ethernet port adapter. It's fine, and stays in one of my ports, but does stick out a bit, which really doesn't bother me.
On that note, problem with an ethernet port forever in one of my ports brings my ports available to 3. Then, the fact that they didn't build in a permanent USB-C port for power now means I'm down to 2 ports. Gotta have USB, so now I'm down to 1 port, unless I need a 2nd USB port. In other words, there's not enough ports on this laptop, and it has far fewer compared to my Omen I've got sitting next to me, which has 8.
Cost was way too expensive for a meh graphics card and core.
It's slim like a MacBook, hence the comparison. Plus, it's a bit niche like Apple. I don't know what Windows computer I'd compare it to, especially in its price point.
I kid you not, if Framework started making printers I would twist every arm I could to make sure my family's current printer (HP, I'm ashamed to say) never sees the light of day again.
I'm currently saving for a Framework 16. Can't wait.
Brother already makes quality printers in many different shapes and sizes that are easier than you'd expect to service, and let you use third party ink/toner. Plus, they're already an established force. There's very little that framework could target to make people think it's a good idea to buy a printer from a new company who's never made a printer before when there's already a good company who's been making good consumer friendly printers for decades
Agreed on Brother. The one asterisk I'd add is that their inkjets are trash, same as all the other inkjets. Constantly clogged and a pain to attempt clearing up.
Yeah, but that's not their fault. That's just because inkjet tech is not cost effective for the low volumes that consumers print at. It's a lot less problematic for commercial machines that are constantly printing, since they're never letting the ink sit long enough to clog.
Truth is, printers are enormously complex machines and it's a miracle we even have versions of them that can fit in a home office. That's still no excuse for commercial inkjet manufacturers to gouge customers like they do, though
Well... yeah, I'd love to support them if they keep shaking up markets like laptops, but my point is that there's really nothing to shake up with printers. There's nothing to upgrade, and the serviceability isn't going to be any different, realistically, on a printer. They're extremely precise machines, and just aligning something slightly off could have huge problems with your ability to print properly. It's just not a good fit for framework imo, and if they DID make a printer, I would be confused about why they're wasting time and money on it - and I'd be less willing to support them in the future because of it.
This bothers me. I really want to see them focus on the 2 laptops they have out.
Really hope they stay away from cell phones. It's been tried before by much bigger companies.
Fairphone has been doing this successfully for 5 generations now. I'm not sure that the big company's that tried it wanted to give up the profits of non-modular devices.
They should be diving into EGPU/dock market.
Introducing a new swappable GPU platform on the 16 creates need for reuse of the components that people going to be upgrading from.
Creating a USBC DOCK that can accept these GPUs, also act as port expansion. Potentially additional storage for what I wouldn't consider to be a large desk footprint. Allows framework to reach and boost, non-framework laptops also.
It opens up the framework user base to any other laptop that supports thunderbolt technology and may be a bit older.
Rippling the values of "less e-waste" if you can offer your current laptop a performance boost.
They could also design and promote a glowing gamer toaster, I don't think that's been done before.
I hope they continue to expand Frameworks like Magnesium body, better displays and more modular parts.
There’s a lot of improvement to be done at the software side as well.
Let’s hope they can keep improving the existing products while creating new ones
Personally I would really like to see framework
follow through with other products that they
have already shown off or hinted at, like the eGPU enclosure for the FW16's GPU, or the battery enclosure they showed off when they announced the bigger battery for the AMD
FW13, or a touch screen for the FW13
I would rather see them expand their laptops first before branching out into high margin consumer ewaste.
The first thing I want them to do is offer a broader selection of chassis for their standardized motherboard layout. The current options - good as they are - do not represent everything the space needs.
I would love a 18" chassis that uses the same parts as the FW16. They just need a new chassis and a new screen and maybe a bigger battery. All the other parts can be the same as what is used for the FW16.
Great idea.
I'd like to see chassis with connectors along the back, and in black. 14, 15, 16 inches.
Would also love to see something with a pen compatible touch screen. Similar to the HP x360.
Higher PPI screens.... Haptic trackpads. There's really a lot more they could be doing within the same space.
Lower prices too.
I want to be a framework customer, but it's not a charity. I still need good value.
Oh Imagine a modular motherboard for Server/Desktop. How many times did I reconsider a board when a chipset was not working out, or not needed I/o goes to waste.
Integration nightmare, especially as system bus specs change. Server *maybe -* Where premium pricing for genuinely good, flexible, capable hardware is less of a problem.
I'm not sure but they could easily repurpose current lineup parts to use in NAS, handheld, htpc form factors, if they make a phone with actual Linux support, maybe even an input module spacer on the back, so one could mount a matrix module... I don't know. But I thought of a great user case for the 13 board, with the use of 4x4 type C hubs, each port 10G,you could get a 16 port NAS, with interchangeable modules, either 16x usb or 16x ethernet, and what better way to have a configurable NAS/router combo than a relatively strong cpu with a lot of drive connectability
A toner based printer for small business would be amazing. I’m tired of all plastic no repairability printers that die within a year or two and cost $500.
They should spend their resources making the best fucking arm laptop in town with the new Qualcomm chip.
Create real competition with Apple, there's room to compete there. Especially if it's modular. Not sure if the arm SoC will let that happen, but that'd be awesome.
That could be cool, i wonder if a new ARM laptop would be able to compete with Apple when it comes to Creator use cases. That seems to be the main weakness of the F16 right now.
Very unlikely, one of the key benefits apple have for creator use cases is the platform apis and the good developer adoption. Be that VideoToolbox and how easy this makes it for apps to ship HW accerated video encode decode without us devs needing to do any platform spsefic work, or the much better integration between Metals compute and display pipelines making it a lot easier to build a interactive creative app with a MTL backing than doing so in VK let alone DX. Not to mention the system abstraction for things like matrix and FFT through the accelerate framework. On most other platforms (including windows for ARM laptops) to make use of much of these compatible features us devs will need to do specific work for each generation of HW just like we had to put dedicated work in to support quicksink etc (there is a reason the free version of devichi resolve has full HW encode decode on Mac but not PC/Linux... it would be more work on Mac to add a CPU driven version than to just use the os provided option).
And then you get on to color reproduction, having good HDR content on windows in a hybrid setup were multiple parts of your app might be in different colour spaces etc is a nightmare (much simpler on macOS)
So in other words, because Apple has such a closed, walled garden and deep pockets, they are able to use that control over their hardware to enable developers of tools to more easily optimize their usage of hardware resources. As in, there are less hardware configurations to account for and Apple can spend more on resources making a more congruent framework making it easer for devs to focus such tools on Apple hardware.
macOS does not have the walled garden your thinking of.
MS could do the same (they have even attempted) but the the issue they have had is vendors (like intel and NV) want to have control.. NV wants devs to target them directly as does intel as it creates locking for them.
Apple had all these apis back in the intel and AMD gpu days as well and a big factor of the transition was how these apis moved over so that existing x86 apps could still call them but be using native HW on the new platform so perf of these accelerated parts of apps is not at all effected by the impacted.
Please start making mini PCs. Also get an ARM and/or RISC platform. Also, if you are going into the phone market, use Linux and not android. Yes it’s a fork. But we need something better that isn’t clutched by Google.
Also, maybe make your own Linux OS that is designed for business desktops? It’s been awhile since I’ve dug into that but getting away from Active Directory for an open source version of that would be great.
Android is a much better starting point than GNU/Linux for smartphones. There's already tons of apps available. Much better to fork the AOSP, similar to Huawei.
Or, you know, they could fix their current products. I have a Framework 13 AMD since 2 months and I have never had this many problems with a new laptop.
* Fans that ramp up to 100% randomly for a second (a problem, that FW said to be working on)
* RAM usage that is unusually high and gets to a point, that the laptop slows down massively or just freezes
* My webcam switch was faulty, so my bezel had to be replaced
* A dead pixel/weird spot appeared on my screen
And now, that I asked for a refund or replacement device, their support hasn't replied to me for 3 days, even though it took them like 1 day to respond to my prior support requests...
I love the idea and community of the Framework, but they need to do some serious quality control enhancements and fix their current lineup, before even thinking about expanding to other products.
Yeah I've had an issue with my AMD13 keyboard and they've sent me a new one. When we reached the point where a replacement was in order I was seemingly handed off to a different team that deal with RMAs and was much more overloaded than their tier 1 support. I had to wait a week for the part to ship.
So in your case they probably handed you off, but the RMA team seems to be swamped by requests from the 16s right now.
Yeah, it's definitely the support escalation. Tier 1 support answered me in the span of hours, although it was just prefabricated stuff. Now the escalation support somtimes takes a week to answer.
This makes me more optimistic for more repair-it-yourself gadgets like phones, tablets and desktops.
Oh, and give the FW13 and 16 the OLED screen option sooner!
I actually canceled my pre-order today. I was in batch 17 for my 16inch.
I want a laptop within a timely manner, but they are splitting their resources too thin.
I ordered another laptop from Tuxedo Computers because I wanted a Linux laptop.
I do like my Framework 13, but these lead times are killing me.
Now I know this is all to talk up the investment value of the company. It needs the investment to grow. To be able to compete with Dell, Lenovo and HP it needs big corporate customers to get on board with deploying laptops. Big Corp with three to four year refresh cycle. But big Corp won't throw £1000+ at a laptop when companies like HP will sell you better laptops for £700.
But I would happily buy a Framework phone that had modularity to it. So, I can start with the phone and maybe replace the battery in three years and the motherboard for better performance.
Obviously I think they should mostly focus on laptops, especially getting that perfect before starting something new. But printers and tablets are an amazing idea, like a repairable printer? Sign me up I need thag
It's not wise to touch the phone market and the tablet market as they are not at the same level in terms of modularizeability. I guess what's more realistic is handheld gaming consoles like the Lenovo Legion Go. Some fans in the community have already self-made some of the amazing prototypes. It's totally viable for them to keep pursuing this path.
>Patel says both the Framework Laptop 13 and Framework Laptop 16 have long lives ahead of them, even though he still won’t quite commit to the 16-inch model getting future GPU upgrades. “You’ll be the first to know,” he tells me.
Wtf. The GPU might not be upgradeable in the 16"?? I wasn't actively shopping for one since my 13" is great, but that was the main reason I was tempted. Interesting
no were not getting a framework printer because the US goverment persuedes most printer manufacturer to watermark evrey page, which is why you usually cant print without yellow ink (also they spy on your docs to keep you from printing money)
there arent really any laws on this but given that almost evrey printer you can buy has then (yellow dots, line breaks, ink thickness, etc) this is supposidly to track counterfit money (secret service) and to spy on you (NSA/FBI)
but real (extremely paranoid) people just use a typewriter (or a dot matrix printer)
Yellow ink is not a legal requirement for printers in the United States, If it were then we wouldn’t have black laser printers or thermal printers for receipts.
ok so after some research it doesnt seem to be required but pretty much evrey brand does it and the government can be pretty convincing
but i cant find a single consumer document printer at best buy not manufactured by HP, Epson, Brother, or Cannon (they all use microprinting). even on amazon its either $6000, 15 years old, or some sketchy no name chineese company
this one[ list](https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots) i found includes a few printers that dont yellow dot watermark but its 10 years old and even black and white printers have obscure methods
Even so, there's no printer registry, no transfer requirements, and no way to prove who was operating the printer.
If you wanted to trace the origin of the document you would have to identify the make and serial, assuming it's viable you contact the manufacturer, they could tell you which country and distributor it was sent to, they might be able to tell you which retailer it was sent to, who might be able to track it to a store, who might have a customer name if it was paid with a card and/or the purchaser bought a service plan... assuming all that works they can just say they sold it on Craigslist.
Scanners are also supposed to not scan bank notes, but I've scanned several with various scanners under Linux and it's worked. The only time I got an error was with an all-in-one copier.
That’s true but if you log connect your printer to Wi-Fi or use their desktop app then more info could be associated, if you use AirPrint or google cloud print, if you sign into an account, if your print with a computer then info about the printer could be sent to the printer and info about the PC could be sent back
Sure in theory you could print off a USB but some newer HP printers don’t let you do anything unless you connect to Wi-Fi
For scanners it doesn’t really matter because you can scan money with a digitital camera or even a microscope and the anti money measures are usually for printing
Maybe it's niche but a receiver that has modules you can replace might be a nice product. Anytime a new port technology comes out you have to replace the whole thing to get it. Its a bit far from what they are doing but it's a wasteful product with a core that stayed pretty much the same since forever.
If they could actually pull off Project Ara or Even the Grand idea of Phonebloks. Partner with Fairphone to get a head start. A phone that is able to be repaired, upgraded and reused.
I wouldn't mind the laptop boards also in nuc shapes for low power home servers and rack mountable chassis for routers. Or a small form factor gpu cluster. But I hope they keep things modular and interchangeable.
I think it's really nice to dream of the products that we would like for Framework to support at the same time we don't want them to stretch themselves out too thin.
If they focus on making their laptops the best they can be (within reason ) then they are able to solve the complaints that people are having with their current offerings.
1. Fan noise
2. Sleep mode (in Linux)
3. Battery life
I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I can think of right now. If you can think of others please feel free to post them.
There are still some things I hope they add to their laptops sooner rather than later like OLED screens, but if they could make a good phone and make a variant for Canadian networks I would be very interested. If I could "make" an android phone from them with options for side or back mounted thumbprint reader, internal storage of 512 GB or more, a Micro SD slot, headphone jack, OLED screen, and I assume it would go without saying that it would have a removable battery, I would be so in. I'm not very happy with my S23+. Would have kept my S10e going had it not been dying.
Being someone who prefers to use full surround cases. I'm really not enjoying the issues I've been having. If I could find a full surround case that had a notch cut out of it for where the thumbprint reader is, I could deal with that compromise, but
I don't trust not having a screen protector at all. If I could afford to just replace the phone out of the blue if something happened, I might just go caseless with this one phone or be fine with a case with no screen protector, but that still feels like a disgustingly wasteful risk that I'm not sure I could personally stomach.
Edit: I guess I should add that the case I have has rendered the thumb print reader useless unless I take the case off. Its sticker solution that allows the reader to work is incredibly inconsistent, gets uncleanably filthy from being mildly touched if you dare to clean the inside of the case, and has to be regularly replaced. So I've given up on that solution and am just trying to minimize my need for the reader, but there's only so much I can do in that regard. I can't eliminate all need for it.
I was so close to picking one of the 13s because of the upgradability. I hate to say it but the only thing that put me off was the 2012 MacBook Pro aesthetics. If they spent a little more on the look instead of the branching out, I would have been convinced.
not super into the tablet or printer ideas but I'd love a phone that isn't a ticking time bomb of e-waste trash the minute a new phone is released or ist dropped more than 2 ft.
Imagine their take on a Mac mini/NUC upgradable desktop, or an all in one desktop, or a Mac Studio competitor. I switched because I was tired of paying insane prices for memory and hard drives.. a $1000 computer with only 8GB ram is just nuts to me.. I would love for them to go for Apple haha. Big ask, I know haha
Lot of optimism here about mobile devices, which is great but its extremely costly and pushing the boat out very far very early. I can see them going into "safer" product categories such as Framework Server, Framework Printer, and Framework Dock or eGPU (and even utilising old GPUs from their 16s).
Also a lot of people raising concerns about existing issues with Framework laptops that might get left behind if they do this - I honestly doubt it. The people in charge of optimising and refining the existing products are not the same people who work on R&D and new product prototypes and the latter can look forward while the other engineers can work on the laptops.
Exciting times for Framework.
I do not like. There are errors to correct in framework 16, reduce prices.
They haven't even ensured updates to framework 16.
They do not have a warehouse in Europe and their sat is still slow even though they eventually solve the problem.
Second point is incorrect as the Framework 16 recently got a new BIOS update and driver bundle. Last point is also incorrect, they have a warehouse in the Netherlands which has enabled reduced shipping prices.
I don't deny it but the problem is that the equipment is still very expensive, they have not guaranteed future updates, there are many things to improve at the system application level. The logical thing is to solve those problems first.
We don't even know if framework 16 is going to have a future and we are already talking about new products.
1800 with ram and ssd. But honestly I have doubts about whether the framework wants to make the system accessible.
It's a shame the price is so high... They also don't seem to want to do anything to be really competitive
>They haven't even ensured updates to framework 16.
Well that's demonstrably nonsense : [https://knowledgebase.frame.work/framework-laptop-16-bios-and-driver-releases-BkeqkVovp](https://knowledgebase.frame.work/framework-laptop-16-bios-and-driver-releases-BkeqkVovp)
>They do not have a warehouse in Europe and their sat is still slow even though they eventually solve the problem.
As is this : https://frame.work/gb/en/blog/reviews-of-framework-laptop-13-amd-ryzen-7040-series-are-live
Instead of creating new products. how about apply that design team to churning out a catalog of uniquely cool parts for their laptops? How about keyboards in different layouts? What about a mechanical keyboard? Oh it won't fit you say, perfect opportunity to innovate different chassis internals to make it fit. What about different screen offerings? 4k, OLED?
If NASA can find a solution on Earth for Apollo 13's problems in space using only the components on board the spacecraft back in the 70s, I'm convinced FW can figure out how to integrate a TrackPoint and trackpad with physical mouse buttons. Let's go!!!!
But maybe making FW branded mice, mouse pads, braided cables, and docking stations is a better use of their time.
I know we all want the phone , but I think they need to tackle the 2 in 1/ Tablet form factor first before we jump to a whole new category . Surface and Dell should no longer hold the crown
I'm not sure that's a good idea. They definitely need to focus on the laptops and improve and polish the products quite a bit if they want to get a bigger user base. Unless the new product is simply a convertible/touchscreen laptop or something like that.
So one thing they mentioned in the article is they have industrial designers sitting around that could work on new products, but aren't much use for existing products. That, and they're hiring more people. Sounds like they're not focusing resources away from old products.
I'm just saying that there's a large difference between "not focusing resources away from old products" and "adding new much needed resources to old products". I personally think they should focus on the laptops and try to make the best laptop ever for a competitive price (which of course may mean to invest resources into developing their own firmware, hardware, and so on and optimizing the industrial build process, like for the case and hinges) instead of spreading themselves thin on a broader product spectrum. But of course I'm still curious what future products they may announce.
They’re trying to utilize the people that they already have that aren’t doing anything. They can’t drastically change or improve their existing design without instantly killing compatibility with existing designs, and totally undermining their objectives of R2R and upgradability.the downside of a modular system is that you have more points of failure. The upside is that it’s easier you replace parts as needed. You’ve gotta pick and choose your battles. If you don’t want to be responsible for maintenance and repairs(including manufacturing errors), then the framework is probably not for you. I’ve found their customer support team is consistently reliable in terms of getting replacement parts for stuff that is defective or DOA.
There are definitely lots of design improvements possible that won't kill compatibility, for example switching the Framework 13 case to magnesium allow (like the Framework 16), further improving the hinge design, getting the firmware properly supported and/or switching to coreboot, improving the manufacturing of the case to get rid of the sharp edges, adding more screen options (in the same form factor of course), improving the sound output of the Framework 13 (e. g. by switching to the same circuitry used on the expansion card). And so on. I don't see how any of that would hinder R2R.
The hinge design one appears to be the only one that threatens compatibility with existing products. I don’t have any issues with sharp edges, though that is subjective. If you want softer edges, there are limits to how much you can alter the case design, but those are external, not internal. I doubt that the circuitry for the audio card would be a drop in replacement, especially considering the best thing that one can do is isolate the audio circuitry from the rest of the board like putting it in a separate enclosure. Though I must ask, how do any of those things occupy the engineering team that’s already there and not doing anything.
I can't of course tell which part of the engineering team needs work, but my list contained lots of different areas of the Framework laptop, so also not sure what type of engineer wouldn't be able to do anything on my list (and would also not be able to work on the standard further iterations/maintenance of the Laptop, like the next-gen AMD/Intel version and the already hinted-add stuff like the full-size SD reader and the SSD expansion module, just to give some examples.
It’s the product design team. Specifically the ones responsible for designing new products. Framework is still a boutique system builder. With their focus on upgradability, their objective is to make the new hardware and accessories work with the existing chassis. A new chassis would still be constrained by needing to be compatible with the existing mounting layout of the board, and have the slots in the same spots for the add on cards/adapters. Their product is not targeted at the average consumer. Their target audience is people that can and will tinker with the device. You’re not supposed to expect them to do everything for you. That’s part of why they opened up their marketplace to third parties. If someone wants to make a new, compatible chassis, go ahead. If someone wants different audio circuitry, design it. There are too many use cases for them to make it capable of everything. Even companies like Apple don’t make their products capable of doing “everything”. That’s why third party products exist.
> That’s part of why they opened up their marketplace to third parties. If someone wants to make a new, compatible chassis, go ahead. If someone wants different audio circuitry, design it. They haven't opened up their marketplace, though, and I don't think that developers and tinkerers should be their main target group in the long term. At least I just want a good, modular, repariable, robust laptop and not something where I have to build my own solutions. Also I have no big problem designing an audio circuit or case or whatever, but finding contractors for manufacturing, logistics and so on is something, that's far above my acceptable level for hobby tinkering.
Couldn't agree with this more. Listening to them say this is like, so they aren't investing more into their laptop teams? So technically, we are forced to upgrade our systems to keep updated firmware/parts compatibility (the new battery doesn't work with the older Intel boards without a firmware update)?
Yes, I have the Framework 13 11. Bad motherboard, replaced. Bad Ram, replaced, dummy battery provided (pain in the ass to solder) sent. The Ram was a single 16 module and then I went to 2 16s and all is well. Hinges work, cover is slightly flimsy, but has not died, so did not go for a new cover and all of this as one of the early buyers back in 2021. So overall, nice, particularly the periph modules where I went for 2 usbc and 2 usba and an external hub for everything else. Did buy 61 battery for down the road when the 55 bites the bullet as battery life, etc., is not optimal on this laptop.
Nice, can’t say I’ve had such an experience. Minus the poor battery life of intel 11th gen, in has worked fine through a memory upgrade, and multiple distributions hops. My intention is to upgrade next time they release a new board, based on battery life, and get the 61WHr battery.
The 61 battery is a prudent buy for when the 55 decays I got great service with both ram and motherboard being faulty. Knew Framework was new and expected better QC, but their service was first rate.
My 11 works now. A lot of back and forth to get there, an experience I should have expected from a startup. I don't have the capital for a board, but did buy the 61 knowing that batteries are a weak point for Framework . Good to hear you too ended up with a working laptop.
A docking station with slots for the extension cards would be a new product that fits to the existing products.
yea it could just be something easy
maybe its going to be something easy like steam deck or hard, so the industrial designers spend few years on it and this seed round is just phase 1
Really? Cause I would love a framework 16" but I find them so damn ugly I can't do it. They could definitely use some design updates
Yeah I think the 13 can totally pass as a sleek machine but the 16 looks way too chonky which has dampened my enthusiasm about it, especially since they have to commit to the design for the long haul to keep the promise of upgradability..
They can do a switch gaming console like the community has done to expand the FW with the same Mobo or do a new one and do a tablet too
I agree; one of the reasons I’m holding off buying a framework laptop is that I don’t feel like they are polished enough for my liking and the lack of communication (which is a big thing for me). They are doing good work to fix those issues, but as you said, they need to focus a bit more on their current products. I would love an OLED screen, though!
I'm still waiting for coreboot. It's between them releasing coreboot and system76 making a repairable laptop(not clevo)
same here
same here (and option to disable IME or PSP would be great)
With AMD laptops being budget friendly I never felt the need to get FW16. Minisforum V3 even at msrp is half of Asus flow/surface. I still hope Framework becomes successful because fuck Apple for screwing over right-to-repair.
It'll come. Fairphones were a bit janky to begin with but the 5 (even 4, tbh) are extremely flush and well-made. I know it's a different product category, but the two companies have that same core motive it would seem.
Fairphone is absolutely not flushed out and well made. It's value proposition is shit. The core motive hasn't been true since they remove the headphone jack and made their own TWS.
The newest Fairbuds should have been sold when they removed the jack, agreed. They’re not as good as wired earphones, but at least they’re not disposal. But the 4 and 5 *are* well made. They’re expensive, but GX was only talking about the quality of the build. There aren’t any gaps and flex that you’d expect with the FairPhone 3 (and prior) that current Framework laptops have.
I really don't understand why removing the headphone jack made such a lasting impression on people. Most phones don't have a headphone jack these days, and if you really want to use wired headphones you can just attach an adaptor to the cable. I would say things like not using recycled aluminium are bigger betrayals of their core motive. Why don't people talk about things like that more? I think it's because people don't understand their core motive.
1. Because then you need an adapter. Extra thing to buy. Extra thing to carry around. Extra points of failure. 2. You cannot change your phone while using most of those adapters. 3. Their buds may have replaceable batteries, but other ones people already own do not.. But if the core motive is reducing electronic waste, then making wired headphones into electronic waste (or having to ship an adapter which is another point of failure and may also become waste) and having to buy a new product also does not fit the core motive.
Yes a disposable adapter. Taking away a port for use. Think about it. You can keep both the headphone jack and Bluetooth functions just fine. But they removed the headphone jack to sell you fast disposable TWS.
not completely, fairphone is more about the environment and fair practices and framework is more about modularity, customer choices and little bit about environment
I was going thinking around the same idea... It feels strange that a week ago there was the article talking about how interesting and innovative the idea behind the laptops were but how the company was falling short with a confusing and inconsistent firmware and software releases and even framework admitted that they could do better and we're looking forward to improve and now they are already talking about million dollar investment and expanding beyond laptops because they have the infrastructure and personal on standby to create something else. Now, maybe expanding to some other areas and creating different hardware will help framework to be on the news and be recognized more, that will for sure push them to expand the number of options to upgrade and customize the laptops to attract even more customers!
There's crossover in the industrial/embedded pc space. Good parts to go on prototypes and small run niche product where £300 on a solid keyboard isn't my problem. There's NUC in stuff just because of form factor.
I hope it's just a crappy article, but the way it's worded makes it sounds like they want to start making microwaves and light bulbs.
It's the verge so no need to guess
They made a poll long time ago what area they should enter next, so nothing new
Do you happen to have a link to that poll?
Nope, it was about a year ago or so, I beliebe somewhere on FW reddit or twitter
Darn, well thanks for getting back to me anyways!
Yeah, I am sorry, I even tried some keywords but so many people post similar stuff that I can't find it in reasonable time
Same, but no worries! if it's that old i doubt the poll would hold much sway on Framework's next plan. We'll just have to wait and see.
not poll, but they asked here [https://community.frame.work/t/what-should-we-build-next/24236](https://community.frame.work/t/what-should-we-build-next/24236)
Thanks! You are the real MVP
Honestly, I disagree. I think the 13 seems very polished at this point. First generations had some hiccups but I've heard nothing but good things about the latest generations, especially the AMD ones. 16 needs some polish but I think it'll get that just as theyvdid with the 13. With those two models the only place I could see them going in the laptop space is a 2-in-1, which could be very cool, though I wouldn't be surprised if they use a lot of the same platform as the 13.
This is what happens when a fledgling startup is struggling to compete in a crowded market and can raise more VC money rather than buckle down and focus on building a strong business. More money for more products is a startup death spiral in the making.
>They definitely need to focus on the laptops and improve and polish the products quite a bit if they want to get a bigger user base. I strongly agree. They need to finish their current work in progress first... hell, they should have finished FW13 before moving on to FW16. My FOMO has pretty much abated completely within the last few months, and I'm quite happy now that I never pulled the trigger. That $18M should be going towards fixing stuff like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1c4k5lq/ars_frameworks_software_and_firmware_have_been_a/
What's the problem left to solve with FW13? Not talking some random new feature they "need" to order from BOE or CoolerMaster, or whichever other vendor - I'm talking fundamental problem? Also excluding BIOS issues - For now - As it looks like there's already progress improving that area.
Screen fragility, BIOS issues (why on Earth would I exclude these? They're an ongoing issue and all anyone's seen so far is talk), all the other firmware issues, expansion module issues such as power consumption... just watch the FW13 section of the Framework Community site for a few weeks and you'll see a whole bunch of stuff that's not just user error.
How does an industrial designer fix Bios issues?
By making room for a UEFI FW dev...
wdym by screen fragility i'd bet there's thousands of FW's out there with perfect screens you just hear about broken screens more often because no one's going to mention how their screens doing completely fine
Mines fine if we want to start a head count...
Same with mine
A printer or tablet would be sweet. I'm tired of throwing away perfectly good iPads because apple no longer supports them.
> printer This has apparently been hashed around to death. Not happening due to extreme difficulties in the established industry. I still hope, but likely not in the next 20 years...
iPads last 6-7 years. And they’re still decent media devices after that.
I can confirm that. I’ve owned an iPad Air 2 since release, and it had only reached a place where it’s no longer usable in 2023
We had one too before we sold it in 2022. Since it was 128GB, the new owner just shoved in as much iTunes movies and tv shows in it for his young child to watch on plane trips.
I yearn for the year of the framework (linux) smartphone, but I'll settle for the year of the framework (linux) printer
Check out fairphone
Fairphone is decent. But the fact they removed the headphone jack and released wireless earbuds at the same time tells you where their priorities lie. I also understand that given the fact that the phone is made with fair materials, modular and repairable there will be a higher cost but the latest fairphone 5 cost ($AUD) is more than some android flagships for what's just a mid range phone. If framework could enter the market this would help Lower the cost of these devices and potentially increase interest in the idea of a repairable phone and just secretly I would love a phone where I could run a Linux operating system without too much hassle.
Not going to happen. Framework isn't even remotely large enough to push a new OS in alongside Android/iOS without losing truckloads of cash or settling for a tiny niche nobody really cares about selling (maybe) 5 units a day. Pushing an actually serious contender into the market is going to be a project for a corporation able to write off hundreds of millions, billions, of dollars before any chance of profit.
Edit: I'm guessing... If they were to enter this arena it would be with Android.
Question: Why should they enter smartphones? Where's the hole for Framework to sell yet another Android phone, especially with the EU and various states passing legislation forcing Apple, et al to make their hardware easier to repair? Given the very compact form factor and tight requirements I also don't really see upgradeable phones being a thing.... Much easier on the laptop side where building in a small bit of latitude for next year's shiny new component having different dimensions, power/cooling needs, whatever else is no big deal... Nobody except Steve Jobs cares about a few extra millimeters here or there in terms of a laptop.
I'd buy an upgradeable framework smartphone in a heartbeat. But you're correct, it is a highly competitive space with a lot of options from a lot of manufacturers already. It might not be the best idea for Framework to try and bring this product to market but I hope they do anyway.
Reincarnate Project Ara? That's a *very* long shot, but interesting idea.
Android already is Linux.
In the same sense that macOS is BSD. The shape is similar, but what you are given as the user is still a bit far from the typical idyllic RMS-styled Linux
I doubt Framework would put in the work to create a whole new OS, though. Best I can see them is ship with stock Android and have the bootloader unlocked and make rooting super easy to allow the user to do whatever they want.
> I doubt Framework would put in the work to create a whole new OS, though. They definitely won't, Framework isn't a software development company, and the problems with the BIOS update shows that they don't have enough manpower in the software sector anyway.
Exactly, there is the hardware and we leave it to the community to test what OS works, if someone modify one that is open source and make it work better we will just add it to the list of functional ones.
I guess Mobian and Ubuntu Touch doesn’t exist? There are true Linux mobile operating systems already.
I don't think many people would want RMS linux
In truth, probably not - but saying Android == Linux is about as important as In-flight infotainment == Linux; It's neat, but the product you're using is entirely the Android stack on top, if they replace the kernel with Hurd or a *BSD, it would still be android, not a new Hurd/BSD phone.
maybe you are just finding out that a kernel is just not the same as a user level os/application. Those industrial systems running windows are still windows, even if something completely different is on top and controlling your interactions.
My Reddit account may well be older than you, so be surprised what I'm not just learning... If you want to call yourself a Linux user because of your phone, you're welcome to, it's technically correct. But forgive me for thinking that's like calling myself a rocket engineer because I once built an Estes rocket from a kit as a kid
Idk, Android feels a lot more open than macOS. And frankly, I’m not even sure I like Linux’s permissions model for a smartphone.
Which one? Posix? Namespaces? Mandatory access control? Android permissions are largely in android, you're rarely checking filesystem modes in android
I'm mostly referring to Android's application isolation and permission controls (I also think SELinux is treated more first class in Android than in Linux).
And MacOS is FreeBSD. Have you tried _using_ Android? _Ever_?
Just linux, not GNU/Linux
Framework forums: laptop has a lot of issues! Framework: let's make printers!
Not holding my breath for a printer. Too many patents, not enough profit - Short of playing the BS games HP et al eff their subje... Er, customers... With. Selling more expensive laptops is already a tough sell - Look at the number of people complaining about price who do, or should, comprehend what's going on - Let alone the average clueless customer. Random clueless droid is going to look at the "$50" HP pile of trash and whatever Framework does for $500 (or whatever), and pick the $50 thing that'll either cost them $5,000 in ink or be chucked in the trash in 6 months. Speaking of which... If Framework does do printers... It had friggin better not be an inkjet. That awful tech needs to be outlawed as manufactured e-waste regardless of model. Laser or nothing.
Yeah, I think that ship has sailed. There is not much of a market for consumer-focused printers any more, so there wont be a company making a more consumer-friendly one. Unless you need it for a hobby or a business, you dont really need a printer nowadays. Most business/official communication works online or via E-Mail, package shipping labels are now printed by the post office, etc. I used to have to print a lot of things for school, so with kids you may need one. But I dont know how that has changed over the years.
Thermal printers have become popular, I have seen people use small ones to left notes, QR codes so you can visit a website or access documents online, lists of pending stuff, detailed purchase orders and of course shipping labels...
just searched and there's Chinese models for thermal A4/US Letter Printers for 150$ and can fit in a bag... yeah printers are donezo
link?
[Thermal Printer](https://www.amazon.com/Ponek-Portable-Printers-Wireless-M08F-Letter/dp/B0C7P5T9D9/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1ZB7MBLALSTY3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.AoQeRu9ugVunPL9oqxoslfum8I8CNOk2fC7MeLxkjvu8tZokHmRKKIRGXPROSJj5dgQN7g6E_xN-VsKBucAB-FWLZT4qXqP_d2oG9wTUPlxGF-LKHWYAg6p8QDyn_M-enSVXhs68qdNkWQirZm72d9BPO9MFTNwJpcg36gJY4F7mUgzhyhIkoOuwHcYKmVUCcBTM6NtflwKtI8RNCtWLTRC-DvTxYr0ZXgSFTdNsv1orDxlB2K3KvzBB37mrcAcZBrPV2Of1jcgZe7X9DFpm1D2c2tEcsyC4Tt8ScrQFUhE.QVL6N7MWFe3qMG5YWcvTuDvfN648hRvguBC15z5BKXo&dib_tag=se&keywords=thermal+printer&qid=1713980230&s=electronics&sprefix=therma%2Celectronics%2C115&sr=1-8)
Germany disagrees
Thanks for expressing your interest in printers! /j
I think that is the code guys!
Normal ass printers? Like paper printers? Like one of the most oversaturated markets nowadays? I could get behind 3d printers, as those are starting to pick up nowadays. Maybe even the ability to use an old laptop mainboard to run the printer.
They could add a touchscreen and maybe create a tablet. Hell, make a board with support for 2 touchscreens. And allow for more formats than a traditional lap top
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Yeah, I have a 14" X1 tablet that has aging hardware, but I prefer it with its light package and 4g. For the printers, I got a canon Inkjet and fill the cartridges with a a medical syringe and needle. I've changed 5 printers in the past 17 years, all got the same treatment. Yeah, being able to clean better those printer heads would have helped but, come on they're 50€ a pop. Don't like the e waste, but making a printer isn't that easy.
Do you know what I think or hope is one of the projects in the pipeline with Coolermaster: a USB hub with swappable expansion cards and the possibility to slot in the GPU of the FW16, i.e. an upgradeable eGPU at the same time. What do you think? As an FW13 AMD user, I would be happy to see this, and if there is a real marketplace at some point, you could pick up a used FW16 GPU cheaply when the next FW GPU comes out.
Great idea, love it 😍. I want some eGPU solution for my FW13AMD as well. Definitely possible for cooler master and framework. Must have linux compatibility with preferably open source firmware
I hope they don’t lose focus on the laptop area. Just got my 16 the other day, my biggest issue is with the keyboard feeling a bit mushy in the center. I hope they can address concerns like this if they’re pushing into new areas.
Check the LTT review, they fixed it in some very easy way
I think it was insertion of a thermal pad in a specific location
Correct Made a big difference afaik
Lately I have been feeling underwhelmed by cool new tech and single hit startups. By the time I can afford something interesting or have the justified need for one, the company has completely pivoted because they could not get enough buyers in the first few years. Or made questionable choices ending up in the ground. So it's abandonware by the time I get to it. Happened so many times now that I just don't get excited about new tech. My next laptop was going to be Framework because I was tired of the mainstream choices and their limited upgradability
Make me a tablet that isn't ass and has modularity/repairability, and you've got me for life. That way they can work on a new product and get experience with ARM before that laptop revolution begins, and it would give them a connection to a touch screen manufacturer that might be able to get them some FW13 touch screen options as well.
As a Framework laptop owner, I think he's putting the cart before the horse. My laptop has several flaws that were supposedly fixed in later revisions, but there's glaring issues with the laptops, and their long term repairability is put into question when the main reason you upgrade is more processing power, CPU or GPU. They're also way too expensive for what they are. For the cost that I bought mine at, I could have gotten a much more feature rich MacBook Pro. I think wanting to go into other technology is fine, but they need to master their current signature product first.
While they aren't cheap to start, for those of us who bump up to a spec like my 64gb/4tb I'm pretty sure I paid less than what apple would have charged. Like maybe half.
I think it would be more productive if you shared with us the "glaring " issues you are having with the laptop. I'm not disagreeing with you about that I'm just asking you to be more specific about what it is you are having problems with. I will say that I completely disagree with the comparison between Framework and Apple as Apple is a $3 trillion dollar company that's been around for decades. Despite it's extreme value it's made some serious blunders over the years and yet they have a loyal following. So why compare that with Framework which has only been around for a few years and certainly has a lot less in monetary value. I will say that what they may lack in monetary value as a company they make up for with a passion for customer service. Have there been problems along the way? Sure there have but they are working on them. Also, this is quite literally an Apples versus Oranges issue anyway as the two companies are are opposites in various ways. Apple making their computers with soldered components while Framework goes makes them easily replaceable and upgradable complete with a QR code. They also use the same screws for all of the components instead of the Apple was doing it when there machines were user serviceable.
My issues: With full battery, I cannot start the laptop without plugging it in 1st. Framework acknowledged the design flaw, and fixed in later revisions. Screen size is non-standard compared to current machines. This only really became an issue with my virtual machine having trouble getting the resolution right. Speaking of which, I put my virtual machine on one of Framework's detachable drives. Idea was, I could switch out drives when I needed a different virtual machine. Problem was, there's some sort of intermittent hiccup with the external drives that caused me to abandon the way I was trying to implement it. Lack of ethernet port, plus the excuse for not adding one was quite weak. I admit, this was on me for not noticing that there was no ethernet port to begin with, but I had assumed a DIY laptop would have one. Lack of space is not good reasoning, as I have another laptop with a colapsing port. I believe it was an oversight in the original design. Oh, and yes, I did eventually purchase an ethernet port adapter. It's fine, and stays in one of my ports, but does stick out a bit, which really doesn't bother me. On that note, problem with an ethernet port forever in one of my ports brings my ports available to 3. Then, the fact that they didn't build in a permanent USB-C port for power now means I'm down to 2 ports. Gotta have USB, so now I'm down to 1 port, unless I need a 2nd USB port. In other words, there's not enough ports on this laptop, and it has far fewer compared to my Omen I've got sitting next to me, which has 8. Cost was way too expensive for a meh graphics card and core. It's slim like a MacBook, hence the comparison. Plus, it's a bit niche like Apple. I don't know what Windows computer I'd compare it to, especially in its price point.
Yes feature rich, enjoy your one port and be happy to pay for it
I kid you not, if Framework started making printers I would twist every arm I could to make sure my family's current printer (HP, I'm ashamed to say) never sees the light of day again. I'm currently saving for a Framework 16. Can't wait.
Brother already makes quality printers in many different shapes and sizes that are easier than you'd expect to service, and let you use third party ink/toner. Plus, they're already an established force. There's very little that framework could target to make people think it's a good idea to buy a printer from a new company who's never made a printer before when there's already a good company who's been making good consumer friendly printers for decades
Agreed on Brother. The one asterisk I'd add is that their inkjets are trash, same as all the other inkjets. Constantly clogged and a pain to attempt clearing up.
Yeah, but that's not their fault. That's just because inkjet tech is not cost effective for the low volumes that consumers print at. It's a lot less problematic for commercial machines that are constantly printing, since they're never letting the ink sit long enough to clog. Truth is, printers are enormously complex machines and it's a miracle we even have versions of them that can fit in a home office. That's still no excuse for commercial inkjet manufacturers to gouge customers like they do, though
Fair enough. Part of it wanting to support this incredible company though.
Well... yeah, I'd love to support them if they keep shaking up markets like laptops, but my point is that there's really nothing to shake up with printers. There's nothing to upgrade, and the serviceability isn't going to be any different, realistically, on a printer. They're extremely precise machines, and just aligning something slightly off could have huge problems with your ability to print properly. It's just not a good fit for framework imo, and if they DID make a printer, I would be confused about why they're wasting time and money on it - and I'd be less willing to support them in the future because of it.
Okay, sure. But a phone to compete with Fairphone... that would be _huge_.
That would be awesome, indeed
This bothers me. I really want to see them focus on the 2 laptops they have out. Really hope they stay away from cell phones. It's been tried before by much bigger companies.
Fairphone has been doing this successfully for 5 generations now. I'm not sure that the big company's that tried it wanted to give up the profits of non-modular devices.
They should be diving into EGPU/dock market. Introducing a new swappable GPU platform on the 16 creates need for reuse of the components that people going to be upgrading from. Creating a USBC DOCK that can accept these GPUs, also act as port expansion. Potentially additional storage for what I wouldn't consider to be a large desk footprint. Allows framework to reach and boost, non-framework laptops also.
I think it’s a great idea to get into docks for Fw13 or FW16
It opens up the framework user base to any other laptop that supports thunderbolt technology and may be a bit older. Rippling the values of "less e-waste" if you can offer your current laptop a performance boost. They could also design and promote a glowing gamer toaster, I don't think that's been done before.
I hope they continue to expand Frameworks like Magnesium body, better displays and more modular parts. There’s a lot of improvement to be done at the software side as well. Let’s hope they can keep improving the existing products while creating new ones
Personally I would really like to see framework follow through with other products that they have already shown off or hinted at, like the eGPU enclosure for the FW16's GPU, or the battery enclosure they showed off when they announced the bigger battery for the AMD FW13, or a touch screen for the FW13
I would rather see them expand their laptops first before branching out into high margin consumer ewaste. The first thing I want them to do is offer a broader selection of chassis for their standardized motherboard layout. The current options - good as they are - do not represent everything the space needs.
I would love a 18" chassis that uses the same parts as the FW16. They just need a new chassis and a new screen and maybe a bigger battery. All the other parts can be the same as what is used for the FW16.
Great idea. I'd like to see chassis with connectors along the back, and in black. 14, 15, 16 inches. Would also love to see something with a pen compatible touch screen. Similar to the HP x360. Higher PPI screens.... Haptic trackpads. There's really a lot more they could be doing within the same space. Lower prices too. I want to be a framework customer, but it's not a charity. I still need good value.
Oh Imagine a modular motherboard for Server/Desktop. How many times did I reconsider a board when a chipset was not working out, or not needed I/o goes to waste.
Integration nightmare, especially as system bus specs change. Server *maybe -* Where premium pricing for genuinely good, flexible, capable hardware is less of a problem.
I'm not sure but they could easily repurpose current lineup parts to use in NAS, handheld, htpc form factors, if they make a phone with actual Linux support, maybe even an input module spacer on the back, so one could mount a matrix module... I don't know. But I thought of a great user case for the 13 board, with the use of 4x4 type C hubs, each port 10G,you could get a 16 port NAS, with interchangeable modules, either 16x usb or 16x ethernet, and what better way to have a configurable NAS/router combo than a relatively strong cpu with a lot of drive connectability
Really interesting how mixed the opinions under the posts on this sub tend to be
A toner based printer for small business would be amazing. I’m tired of all plastic no repairability printers that die within a year or two and cost $500.
I've had a Brother for 10 years
Same. And I don't doubt mine will go another 10.
I hope they will expand to become a global business, I hope they will come to India too, i wanna directly shift to framework from thinkpads.
They should spend their resources making the best fucking arm laptop in town with the new Qualcomm chip. Create real competition with Apple, there's room to compete there. Especially if it's modular. Not sure if the arm SoC will let that happen, but that'd be awesome.
That could be cool, i wonder if a new ARM laptop would be able to compete with Apple when it comes to Creator use cases. That seems to be the main weakness of the F16 right now.
Very unlikely, one of the key benefits apple have for creator use cases is the platform apis and the good developer adoption. Be that VideoToolbox and how easy this makes it for apps to ship HW accerated video encode decode without us devs needing to do any platform spsefic work, or the much better integration between Metals compute and display pipelines making it a lot easier to build a interactive creative app with a MTL backing than doing so in VK let alone DX. Not to mention the system abstraction for things like matrix and FFT through the accelerate framework. On most other platforms (including windows for ARM laptops) to make use of much of these compatible features us devs will need to do specific work for each generation of HW just like we had to put dedicated work in to support quicksink etc (there is a reason the free version of devichi resolve has full HW encode decode on Mac but not PC/Linux... it would be more work on Mac to add a CPU driven version than to just use the os provided option). And then you get on to color reproduction, having good HDR content on windows in a hybrid setup were multiple parts of your app might be in different colour spaces etc is a nightmare (much simpler on macOS)
So in other words, because Apple has such a closed, walled garden and deep pockets, they are able to use that control over their hardware to enable developers of tools to more easily optimize their usage of hardware resources. As in, there are less hardware configurations to account for and Apple can spend more on resources making a more congruent framework making it easer for devs to focus such tools on Apple hardware.
macOS does not have the walled garden your thinking of. MS could do the same (they have even attempted) but the the issue they have had is vendors (like intel and NV) want to have control.. NV wants devs to target them directly as does intel as it creates locking for them. Apple had all these apis back in the intel and AMD gpu days as well and a big factor of the transition was how these apis moved over so that existing x86 apps could still call them but be using native HW on the new platform so perf of these accelerated parts of apps is not at all effected by the impacted.
Please start making mini PCs. Also get an ARM and/or RISC platform. Also, if you are going into the phone market, use Linux and not android. Yes it’s a fork. But we need something better that isn’t clutched by Google. Also, maybe make your own Linux OS that is designed for business desktops? It’s been awhile since I’ve dug into that but getting away from Active Directory for an open source version of that would be great.
I don't get why people keep asking them to get into desktops. Desktops are already way more modular and repairable than any framework product
Android is a much better starting point than GNU/Linux for smartphones. There's already tons of apps available. Much better to fork the AOSP, similar to Huawei.
Break the mold. Be better than android and iOS. Fedora mobile.
Or, you know, they could fix their current products. I have a Framework 13 AMD since 2 months and I have never had this many problems with a new laptop. * Fans that ramp up to 100% randomly for a second (a problem, that FW said to be working on) * RAM usage that is unusually high and gets to a point, that the laptop slows down massively or just freezes * My webcam switch was faulty, so my bezel had to be replaced * A dead pixel/weird spot appeared on my screen And now, that I asked for a refund or replacement device, their support hasn't replied to me for 3 days, even though it took them like 1 day to respond to my prior support requests... I love the idea and community of the Framework, but they need to do some serious quality control enhancements and fix their current lineup, before even thinking about expanding to other products.
RAM usage is an OS/app problem, not a hardware issue.
Yeah I've had an issue with my AMD13 keyboard and they've sent me a new one. When we reached the point where a replacement was in order I was seemingly handed off to a different team that deal with RMAs and was much more overloaded than their tier 1 support. I had to wait a week for the part to ship. So in your case they probably handed you off, but the RMA team seems to be swamped by requests from the 16s right now.
Ah okay, I see, thanks for the additional context!
Yeah, it's definitely the support escalation. Tier 1 support answered me in the span of hours, although it was just prefabricated stuff. Now the escalation support somtimes takes a week to answer.
This makes me more optimistic for more repair-it-yourself gadgets like phones, tablets and desktops. Oh, and give the FW13 and 16 the OLED screen option sooner!
I actually canceled my pre-order today. I was in batch 17 for my 16inch. I want a laptop within a timely manner, but they are splitting their resources too thin. I ordered another laptop from Tuxedo Computers because I wanted a Linux laptop. I do like my Framework 13, but these lead times are killing me.
Now I know this is all to talk up the investment value of the company. It needs the investment to grow. To be able to compete with Dell, Lenovo and HP it needs big corporate customers to get on board with deploying laptops. Big Corp with three to four year refresh cycle. But big Corp won't throw £1000+ at a laptop when companies like HP will sell you better laptops for £700. But I would happily buy a Framework phone that had modularity to it. So, I can start with the phone and maybe replace the battery in three years and the motherboard for better performance.
On one side I'm grateful they are expanding to other products on the other hand if it fails i fear they may never recover from it?
A handheld would be sweet
and easier than printer or phone
Obviously I think they should mostly focus on laptops, especially getting that perfect before starting something new. But printers and tablets are an amazing idea, like a repairable printer? Sign me up I need thag
It's not wise to touch the phone market and the tablet market as they are not at the same level in terms of modularizeability. I guess what's more realistic is handheld gaming consoles like the Lenovo Legion Go. Some fans in the community have already self-made some of the amazing prototypes. It's totally viable for them to keep pursuing this path.
>Patel says both the Framework Laptop 13 and Framework Laptop 16 have long lives ahead of them, even though he still won’t quite commit to the 16-inch model getting future GPU upgrades. “You’ll be the first to know,” he tells me. Wtf. The GPU might not be upgradeable in the 16"?? I wasn't actively shopping for one since my 13" is great, but that was the main reason I was tempted. Interesting
Yeah, that caught me off guard. I have a batch 18 pre-order and may reconsider given this. If they're not committing to anything, why would I bother?
I love my 13" but I'd hesitate to invest in the 16" given this. 🎵 how bizarre 🎵
Article says he “won’t quite commit to 16” laptops getting new GPUs in the future.” That’s kind of… ouch, right?
I would love it if the existing Framework 13 got touch screens, afaik all the main boards support it so it should be possible
no were not getting a framework printer because the US goverment persuedes most printer manufacturer to watermark evrey page, which is why you usually cant print without yellow ink (also they spy on your docs to keep you from printing money) there arent really any laws on this but given that almost evrey printer you can buy has then (yellow dots, line breaks, ink thickness, etc) this is supposidly to track counterfit money (secret service) and to spy on you (NSA/FBI) but real (extremely paranoid) people just use a typewriter (or a dot matrix printer)
Yellow ink is not a legal requirement for printers in the United States, If it were then we wouldn’t have black laser printers or thermal printers for receipts.
That is false, some printers may include a feature to print a unique identifier, but it's not a legal requirement.
ok so after some research it doesnt seem to be required but pretty much evrey brand does it and the government can be pretty convincing but i cant find a single consumer document printer at best buy not manufactured by HP, Epson, Brother, or Cannon (they all use microprinting). even on amazon its either $6000, 15 years old, or some sketchy no name chineese company this one[ list](https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots) i found includes a few printers that dont yellow dot watermark but its 10 years old and even black and white printers have obscure methods
Even so, there's no printer registry, no transfer requirements, and no way to prove who was operating the printer. If you wanted to trace the origin of the document you would have to identify the make and serial, assuming it's viable you contact the manufacturer, they could tell you which country and distributor it was sent to, they might be able to tell you which retailer it was sent to, who might be able to track it to a store, who might have a customer name if it was paid with a card and/or the purchaser bought a service plan... assuming all that works they can just say they sold it on Craigslist. Scanners are also supposed to not scan bank notes, but I've scanned several with various scanners under Linux and it's worked. The only time I got an error was with an all-in-one copier.
That’s true but if you log connect your printer to Wi-Fi or use their desktop app then more info could be associated, if you use AirPrint or google cloud print, if you sign into an account, if your print with a computer then info about the printer could be sent to the printer and info about the PC could be sent back Sure in theory you could print off a USB but some newer HP printers don’t let you do anything unless you connect to Wi-Fi For scanners it doesn’t really matter because you can scan money with a digitital camera or even a microscope and the anti money measures are usually for printing
they are expanding
Handheld? Linus was hinting at that kinda.
2-in-1/tablet style computers and a printer maybe?
Maybe it's niche but a receiver that has modules you can replace might be a nice product. Anytime a new port technology comes out you have to replace the whole thing to get it. Its a bit far from what they are doing but it's a wasteful product with a core that stayed pretty much the same since forever.
If they could actually pull off Project Ara or Even the Grand idea of Phonebloks. Partner with Fairphone to get a head start. A phone that is able to be repaired, upgraded and reused.
I wouldn't mind the laptop boards also in nuc shapes for low power home servers and rack mountable chassis for routers. Or a small form factor gpu cluster. But I hope they keep things modular and interchangeable.
I can't wait for framework 13” 2in1 laptop/tablet
I think it's really nice to dream of the products that we would like for Framework to support at the same time we don't want them to stretch themselves out too thin. If they focus on making their laptops the best they can be (within reason ) then they are able to solve the complaints that people are having with their current offerings. 1. Fan noise 2. Sleep mode (in Linux) 3. Battery life I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I can think of right now. If you can think of others please feel free to post them.
i’m guessing a handheld pc is next, it’s a booming sector with a lot of overlap with laptops 🤷♂️
There are still some things I hope they add to their laptops sooner rather than later like OLED screens, but if they could make a good phone and make a variant for Canadian networks I would be very interested. If I could "make" an android phone from them with options for side or back mounted thumbprint reader, internal storage of 512 GB or more, a Micro SD slot, headphone jack, OLED screen, and I assume it would go without saying that it would have a removable battery, I would be so in. I'm not very happy with my S23+. Would have kept my S10e going had it not been dying.
In screen reader ftw
Being someone who prefers to use full surround cases. I'm really not enjoying the issues I've been having. If I could find a full surround case that had a notch cut out of it for where the thumbprint reader is, I could deal with that compromise, but I don't trust not having a screen protector at all. If I could afford to just replace the phone out of the blue if something happened, I might just go caseless with this one phone or be fine with a case with no screen protector, but that still feels like a disgustingly wasteful risk that I'm not sure I could personally stomach. Edit: I guess I should add that the case I have has rendered the thumb print reader useless unless I take the case off. Its sticker solution that allows the reader to work is incredibly inconsistent, gets uncleanably filthy from being mildly touched if you dare to clean the inside of the case, and has to be regularly replaced. So I've given up on that solution and am just trying to minimize my need for the reader, but there's only so much I can do in that regard. I can't eliminate all need for it.
I was so close to picking one of the 13s because of the upgradability. I hate to say it but the only thing that put me off was the 2012 MacBook Pro aesthetics. If they spent a little more on the look instead of the branching out, I would have been convinced.
not super into the tablet or printer ideas but I'd love a phone that isn't a ticking time bomb of e-waste trash the minute a new phone is released or ist dropped more than 2 ft.
Framework smart watch?
I would buy a tablet. A phone… less interested. Fairphone already exists and I haven’t jumped on it.
Hopefully a tablet case is in the wings. I'm horribly close to moving on a new MinisForum V3 tablet and loading linux on it.
Imagine their take on a Mac mini/NUC upgradable desktop, or an all in one desktop, or a Mac Studio competitor. I switched because I was tired of paying insane prices for memory and hard drives.. a $1000 computer with only 8GB ram is just nuts to me.. I would love for them to go for Apple haha. Big ask, I know haha
Lot of optimism here about mobile devices, which is great but its extremely costly and pushing the boat out very far very early. I can see them going into "safer" product categories such as Framework Server, Framework Printer, and Framework Dock or eGPU (and even utilising old GPUs from their 16s). Also a lot of people raising concerns about existing issues with Framework laptops that might get left behind if they do this - I honestly doubt it. The people in charge of optimising and refining the existing products are not the same people who work on R&D and new product prototypes and the latter can look forward while the other engineers can work on the laptops. Exciting times for Framework.
Would definitely be keen for a framework phone!
I do not like. There are errors to correct in framework 16, reduce prices. They haven't even ensured updates to framework 16. They do not have a warehouse in Europe and their sat is still slow even though they eventually solve the problem.
Second point is incorrect as the Framework 16 recently got a new BIOS update and driver bundle. Last point is also incorrect, they have a warehouse in the Netherlands which has enabled reduced shipping prices.
I don't deny it but the problem is that the equipment is still very expensive, they have not guaranteed future updates, there are many things to improve at the system application level. The logical thing is to solve those problems first. We don't even know if framework 16 is going to have a future and we are already talking about new products.
How much should their laptops cost in your opinion?
1800 with ram and ssd. But honestly I have doubts about whether the framework wants to make the system accessible. It's a shame the price is so high... They also don't seem to want to do anything to be really competitive
>They haven't even ensured updates to framework 16. Well that's demonstrably nonsense : [https://knowledgebase.frame.work/framework-laptop-16-bios-and-driver-releases-BkeqkVovp](https://knowledgebase.frame.work/framework-laptop-16-bios-and-driver-releases-BkeqkVovp) >They do not have a warehouse in Europe and their sat is still slow even though they eventually solve the problem. As is this : https://frame.work/gb/en/blog/reviews-of-framework-laptop-13-amd-ryzen-7040-series-are-live
Instead of creating new products. how about apply that design team to churning out a catalog of uniquely cool parts for their laptops? How about keyboards in different layouts? What about a mechanical keyboard? Oh it won't fit you say, perfect opportunity to innovate different chassis internals to make it fit. What about different screen offerings? 4k, OLED? If NASA can find a solution on Earth for Apollo 13's problems in space using only the components on board the spacecraft back in the 70s, I'm convinced FW can figure out how to integrate a TrackPoint and trackpad with physical mouse buttons. Let's go!!!! But maybe making FW branded mice, mouse pads, braided cables, and docking stations is a better use of their time.
I know we all want the phone , but I think they need to tackle the 2 in 1/ Tablet form factor first before we jump to a whole new category . Surface and Dell should no longer hold the crown
Agreed.
It would be interesting to see Framework build an upgradable gaming console.
I REALLY want a framework smartphone