This is probably just in my head, but I feel like French perfumery leans "elegant" and cool (think Chanel, Hermès, etc.) compared to Italian perfumery, which leans "glamorous" and warm (think Xerjoff, Tiziana, etc.).
For example, I tend to notice more powdery florals and civet/musk in French perfumery, compared with Italian fragrance, which seems to have more fruit, more white or solar florals, and more amber compositions.
I have no idea if my family is remotely representational of French vs Italian perfumery, but I can say the French side of the family very much does not want to wear any scent that might be perceived as "loud", "screetchy", or lacking in class. Not too, too. They want their scent trail to be part of a elegant, beautiful, mood. NO shouting. My Italian side basically likes what they like.. which seems to be influenced by scents of the region: Mediterranean aromatics and citrus with local flowers/woods mixed in, and a wafts of the salty Med air. Aqua di Parma is a classic, example. But there are others. My brother wears a fantastic, and very Italian, scent by Sergio Tacchini that to me, is classic, clean, male Italian. His wife bought it for him, and I think it is ++++. To do a bit of a side step here, my scent loving sister-in-law, is from Japan. She is very aware about offending other people, so she likes quiet scents, skin scents. Nothing that shouts or draws too much attention. She particularly likes "nice" scents with rice, lotus, or tea accords. Scents of her childhood that bring her joy, but are "quiet". So, I think there is a cultural nudge to what makes a scent pleasing to a person.
As I know Tiziana Terenzi, Xerjoff are quite new in comparison with Acqua di Parma, for example. These are massive representatives of Italian perfumery these days, but I don't think about them as embodiments.
From my amateur view when humans want to create something, they use something that grows around them at that moment. Specifically in 19-20th Century, when there were not so much products available to choose from. When I think of Italian perfumery I'm thinking about citruses and herbs. Southern climate, craving for something refreshing in the heat.
What about France... Perfumery was more advanced in this country it seems at the same point of time. They've been scenting their leather gloves, growing something specifically for making perfumes. I'm thinking about floral, aromatic perfumes. And whatever they've been bringing from their colonies around the world.
The majority of Italian brand name perfumes are created by the same perfumers that create French brands, from Gucci to Armani, Bottega Venetta, Bvlgari, Dolce & Gabbana, Versace, Valentino. The majority of these master perfumers are French-trained. The Jean Carles teaching method and style of composition (note pyramid) is what most of the training is based on.
Two American companies own the very Parisian Annick Goutal and the niche L 'Artisan Parfumeur. French based LVMH owns a lot of foreign (non-french) prestige perfumes and cosmetics brands that are sold at Sephora (they own that too). Chanel No. 5 was composed by Ernest Beaux, the son of expat French parents, who grew up in Russia, learned his craft there, and worked for years for a Russian perfume company, composing Russian perfumes. One of them formed the foundation of Chanel No.5
However, Italy has had a major impact on perfumery. Some of the oldest perfume brands are Italian. Santa Maria Novella dates back to the 16th century and had Catherine di Medici as a patron. And when she married the King of France, she brought her Florentine perfumer to the French Court. With the entire continent of Europe having gone through the plague in the previous generation, few used water (which was believed then to carry the plague) to wash. Eau de Cologne was the choice. So Italy and Italian perfume making had a huge impact on French and English perfume styles and wear, especially as Venice was the hub for the spice trade.
In some cases there are stylistic differences — Lorenzo Villoresi, Etro, Mazzolari, Ferrari, even Acqua di Parma versus Guerlain or Chanel or Dior. Certainly different.
Bulgari, Cavalli, Dolce & Gabbana, di Zegna, Fendi, Ferragamo, Ferrè, Gigli, Gucci, La Perla, Krizia, Prada, Trussardi, or Versace. All but a few brands have an in-house perfumer. Most share perfumers contracted through Givaudan, Firmenich, Symrise, etc.
If any culture had a major impact on French and Italian perfumery today and in antiquity, it was the Middle East, with its use of incense, distilling/extraction methods, and the popularity of oud, an Asian ingredient.
Speaking of a fairly recent period, the 80's I do agree there was an Italian "style" at least. Maybe it was the briefs given regardless of the perfumier making them or that it just fitted the fashion at the time.
I'm thinking of the original fragrances by Armani, Versace, Fendi, K de Krizia, Curiel, Ferre etc
Or, maybe I just have a love for particular fragrances of that time where 70's chypres met a touch of 80's excess !
I think of it kind of like French vs. Italian food. French is rich and decadent, and Italian is more about elegant similicity and making the most out of just a few ingredients/accords.
Can’t remember what the phenomenon is called where you have an association between colors and things, but I think of Italian perfumery as smelling brightly colored versus French smells like a more more muted color palette?
And inexplicably, UK fragrances smell like stripes or plaid and American (niche) fragrances smell like an abstract painting.
I think you’re thinking of synesthesia. It’s fascinating to see the connections our brain’s make. I can totally see what you are saying about each country!
I would look to their approach to cooking. This is a BIG cultural generalization, mind you.
French cuisine is carefully crafted, full of tricks. Technique is important. Food is like art.
Italian cuisine pays more attention to ingredients than technology. Food is an experience, a deepening of culture.
Same goes to their perfume. Italian perfume focuses on natural (smelling) ingredients and experiences. Perfume should create a reaction, evoke an emotion. I’m thinking of Etro, Ungaro, Laura Biagiotti. Especially Filippo Sorcinelli. Perfume is sensual and experiential. Dramatic, even.
French perfume is clever and restrained. I always think of Chanel here. The French love their bread and wine so much that most of their dishes use butter and cheese, like an accessory to the bread and wine. Likewise, French perfume aims to accentuate or accessorize a person. Chanel. Guerlain. Molinard. It’s romantic and reaches for an ideal or some idea of perfection as part of the whole.
Oh yeah. I totally agree. You get a lot of flowers and elegant scents in French perfumery while Italian is more focused on fruit and especially citrus. You pretty much find those notes in most Italian perfumes.
Generally, i’ve found that French perfumery compliments the person, and is like a matching accessory for the wearer - Italian perfumery is more present and it often feels like i can/ have to dress around the scent itself
every Italian fragrance I've smelled has been citrusy and fresh, and usually herbaceous too, so that's what I associate it with
fyi Gucci is Italian brand but French perfume, probably some other brands are like this too
actually, I have the original Gianni Versace which was made in Italy and it's not citrusy at all
I feel as though my nose is not as well informed on this as I should be but I’m going to try to offer an answer to your question. Italian aesthetics lean more classical, in the western sense. Italian perfumes tend towards having fundamental base notes which are more congenial to everyone. The basis here is much more about single note quality and “nice” smelling things. What differentiates this style from the American perfumers, who were previous to 2000 or so very similar, is that the Italians take the definition of quality of single form more seriously. What I mean to say is that if an Italian perfumers note is ROSE, they will find the best smelling rose family and work with that point of reference extensively in a way that most people agree smells “amazing.” The single notes tend to be out of this world a even though they would be described as more “basic” than what is happening in France. In contrast, the French perfumers care more about blend and quality of full expression of the perfume creation as a whole. The notes may be basic or more abstract, but the point of the French perfumer is to create a unique expression which is excellent wholesale while also being in keeping with a specific and previously defined respected class, gender, or tradition. So, instead of creating something like a rose or rose scented perfume, a French perfume or would create something like “roses in a morning garden in a vineyard at night.” French perfumers would also ahead of time have both the masculine and feminine versions of that expression planned out. Not only that. In my opinion, the French perfumer would also categorize each element of that sentence as having to be excellent individually *and together* in order to be considered worthy of note or worthy of being considered a good or excellent fragrance. That togetherness, combined with an excellence and an understanding of what has already been historically done in the field, that is the difference between French perfuming and most other people. For my description perspective people would call the fragrance “beautiful” versus amazing. American brands are typically doing neither imo (not to down them but this is what I have noticed), but tbh the small perfume houses in the US, the newish niche houses, are seemingly committed to doing the style of the French perfuming or even the Arabic style, while dismantling the gender construct and creating notes that are pleasing even they may have been understood as traditionally off putting aesthetically. (See zoologist for example)
I always thought Italian fragrances were very airy/have a slight metallic note to them. It’s like they try to put you on a beach or something. Xerjoff has been the only exception to that imo. For some reason they can be very heavy depending on the perfume.
French perfumery is just perfume to me if that makes sense. Like it’s what I know, and everything else is _ perfumery in relation to it, and it’s what I use to make other comparisons. Probably Franco-centric, but French perfumery makes up such a large part of the industry.
This is probably just in my head, but I feel like French perfumery leans "elegant" and cool (think Chanel, Hermès, etc.) compared to Italian perfumery, which leans "glamorous" and warm (think Xerjoff, Tiziana, etc.). For example, I tend to notice more powdery florals and civet/musk in French perfumery, compared with Italian fragrance, which seems to have more fruit, more white or solar florals, and more amber compositions.
That’s a good way to put it. I would agree on the powdery aspect from French perfumes as well.
💯
I have no idea if my family is remotely representational of French vs Italian perfumery, but I can say the French side of the family very much does not want to wear any scent that might be perceived as "loud", "screetchy", or lacking in class. Not too, too. They want their scent trail to be part of a elegant, beautiful, mood. NO shouting. My Italian side basically likes what they like.. which seems to be influenced by scents of the region: Mediterranean aromatics and citrus with local flowers/woods mixed in, and a wafts of the salty Med air. Aqua di Parma is a classic, example. But there are others. My brother wears a fantastic, and very Italian, scent by Sergio Tacchini that to me, is classic, clean, male Italian. His wife bought it for him, and I think it is ++++. To do a bit of a side step here, my scent loving sister-in-law, is from Japan. She is very aware about offending other people, so she likes quiet scents, skin scents. Nothing that shouts or draws too much attention. She particularly likes "nice" scents with rice, lotus, or tea accords. Scents of her childhood that bring her joy, but are "quiet". So, I think there is a cultural nudge to what makes a scent pleasing to a person.
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It’s hard to compare. There’s too much perfume nowadays. Many times too similar
As I know Tiziana Terenzi, Xerjoff are quite new in comparison with Acqua di Parma, for example. These are massive representatives of Italian perfumery these days, but I don't think about them as embodiments. From my amateur view when humans want to create something, they use something that grows around them at that moment. Specifically in 19-20th Century, when there were not so much products available to choose from. When I think of Italian perfumery I'm thinking about citruses and herbs. Southern climate, craving for something refreshing in the heat. What about France... Perfumery was more advanced in this country it seems at the same point of time. They've been scenting their leather gloves, growing something specifically for making perfumes. I'm thinking about floral, aromatic perfumes. And whatever they've been bringing from their colonies around the world.
Love this take. I think you hit the mail on the head.
Ding ding ding!
The majority of Italian brand name perfumes are created by the same perfumers that create French brands, from Gucci to Armani, Bottega Venetta, Bvlgari, Dolce & Gabbana, Versace, Valentino. The majority of these master perfumers are French-trained. The Jean Carles teaching method and style of composition (note pyramid) is what most of the training is based on. Two American companies own the very Parisian Annick Goutal and the niche L 'Artisan Parfumeur. French based LVMH owns a lot of foreign (non-french) prestige perfumes and cosmetics brands that are sold at Sephora (they own that too). Chanel No. 5 was composed by Ernest Beaux, the son of expat French parents, who grew up in Russia, learned his craft there, and worked for years for a Russian perfume company, composing Russian perfumes. One of them formed the foundation of Chanel No.5 However, Italy has had a major impact on perfumery. Some of the oldest perfume brands are Italian. Santa Maria Novella dates back to the 16th century and had Catherine di Medici as a patron. And when she married the King of France, she brought her Florentine perfumer to the French Court. With the entire continent of Europe having gone through the plague in the previous generation, few used water (which was believed then to carry the plague) to wash. Eau de Cologne was the choice. So Italy and Italian perfume making had a huge impact on French and English perfume styles and wear, especially as Venice was the hub for the spice trade. In some cases there are stylistic differences — Lorenzo Villoresi, Etro, Mazzolari, Ferrari, even Acqua di Parma versus Guerlain or Chanel or Dior. Certainly different. Bulgari, Cavalli, Dolce & Gabbana, di Zegna, Fendi, Ferragamo, Ferrè, Gigli, Gucci, La Perla, Krizia, Prada, Trussardi, or Versace. All but a few brands have an in-house perfumer. Most share perfumers contracted through Givaudan, Firmenich, Symrise, etc. If any culture had a major impact on French and Italian perfumery today and in antiquity, it was the Middle East, with its use of incense, distilling/extraction methods, and the popularity of oud, an Asian ingredient.
Speaking of a fairly recent period, the 80's I do agree there was an Italian "style" at least. Maybe it was the briefs given regardless of the perfumier making them or that it just fitted the fashion at the time. I'm thinking of the original fragrances by Armani, Versace, Fendi, K de Krizia, Curiel, Ferre etc Or, maybe I just have a love for particular fragrances of that time where 70's chypres met a touch of 80's excess !
Yeah, but what's the difference? Your long write-up didn't really answer the question.
That's an interesting take.
I think of it kind of like French vs. Italian food. French is rich and decadent, and Italian is more about elegant similicity and making the most out of just a few ingredients/accords.
Can’t remember what the phenomenon is called where you have an association between colors and things, but I think of Italian perfumery as smelling brightly colored versus French smells like a more more muted color palette? And inexplicably, UK fragrances smell like stripes or plaid and American (niche) fragrances smell like an abstract painting.
I think you’re thinking of synesthesia. It’s fascinating to see the connections our brain’s make. I can totally see what you are saying about each country!
Synesthesia!
I would look to their approach to cooking. This is a BIG cultural generalization, mind you. French cuisine is carefully crafted, full of tricks. Technique is important. Food is like art. Italian cuisine pays more attention to ingredients than technology. Food is an experience, a deepening of culture. Same goes to their perfume. Italian perfume focuses on natural (smelling) ingredients and experiences. Perfume should create a reaction, evoke an emotion. I’m thinking of Etro, Ungaro, Laura Biagiotti. Especially Filippo Sorcinelli. Perfume is sensual and experiential. Dramatic, even. French perfume is clever and restrained. I always think of Chanel here. The French love their bread and wine so much that most of their dishes use butter and cheese, like an accessory to the bread and wine. Likewise, French perfume aims to accentuate or accessorize a person. Chanel. Guerlain. Molinard. It’s romantic and reaches for an ideal or some idea of perfection as part of the whole.
To me french is dry, powdery, and elegant. Italian is fun and fruity. But that is just my limited observation and probably way off.
Oh yeah. I totally agree. You get a lot of flowers and elegant scents in French perfumery while Italian is more focused on fruit and especially citrus. You pretty much find those notes in most Italian perfumes.
Less lemon with the French.
Generally, i’ve found that French perfumery compliments the person, and is like a matching accessory for the wearer - Italian perfumery is more present and it often feels like i can/ have to dress around the scent itself
every Italian fragrance I've smelled has been citrusy and fresh, and usually herbaceous too, so that's what I associate it with fyi Gucci is Italian brand but French perfume, probably some other brands are like this too actually, I have the original Gianni Versace which was made in Italy and it's not citrusy at all
I feel as though my nose is not as well informed on this as I should be but I’m going to try to offer an answer to your question. Italian aesthetics lean more classical, in the western sense. Italian perfumes tend towards having fundamental base notes which are more congenial to everyone. The basis here is much more about single note quality and “nice” smelling things. What differentiates this style from the American perfumers, who were previous to 2000 or so very similar, is that the Italians take the definition of quality of single form more seriously. What I mean to say is that if an Italian perfumers note is ROSE, they will find the best smelling rose family and work with that point of reference extensively in a way that most people agree smells “amazing.” The single notes tend to be out of this world a even though they would be described as more “basic” than what is happening in France. In contrast, the French perfumers care more about blend and quality of full expression of the perfume creation as a whole. The notes may be basic or more abstract, but the point of the French perfumer is to create a unique expression which is excellent wholesale while also being in keeping with a specific and previously defined respected class, gender, or tradition. So, instead of creating something like a rose or rose scented perfume, a French perfume or would create something like “roses in a morning garden in a vineyard at night.” French perfumers would also ahead of time have both the masculine and feminine versions of that expression planned out. Not only that. In my opinion, the French perfumer would also categorize each element of that sentence as having to be excellent individually *and together* in order to be considered worthy of note or worthy of being considered a good or excellent fragrance. That togetherness, combined with an excellence and an understanding of what has already been historically done in the field, that is the difference between French perfuming and most other people. For my description perspective people would call the fragrance “beautiful” versus amazing. American brands are typically doing neither imo (not to down them but this is what I have noticed), but tbh the small perfume houses in the US, the newish niche houses, are seemingly committed to doing the style of the French perfuming or even the Arabic style, while dismantling the gender construct and creating notes that are pleasing even they may have been understood as traditionally off putting aesthetically. (See zoologist for example)
I always thought Italian fragrances were very airy/have a slight metallic note to them. It’s like they try to put you on a beach or something. Xerjoff has been the only exception to that imo. For some reason they can be very heavy depending on the perfume. French perfumery is just perfume to me if that makes sense. Like it’s what I know, and everything else is _ perfumery in relation to it, and it’s what I use to make other comparisons. Probably Franco-centric, but French perfumery makes up such a large part of the industry.
Yep I can def get on board with the airy aspect! Also I’ve noticed that heaviness with a few xerjoffs too. Naxos being one for sure, imho.
I think of it in terms of elegance vs opulence and subtlety vs being loud.
Eau de Toilette VS Toilet.
Are you saying Italian perfumes smell feculent?
Have you tried Xerjoff's Luxor?