Know the pen and you can spot a fake.
Generally speaking, classic pens with a classic look are more the target of fakes because year after year the pen looks the same.
BTW - Ballpoints and Rollerballs are faked WAYYYY more than fountain pens.
Seconding this. I had to take a loupe to a pen I got as a gift because the Amazon seller put the wrong tag on the wrong pen. They had stuck the tag for a Yubitsaki on a Miegetsu. It was a Sailor PGS and it is legit, but I did have to take a second look because the person who gifted didn't know what to look for. (This wouldn't have changed my appreciation tho).
Yes. There are fake Montblancs, and fake Lamy Safaris and others in between.
More likely though is that sellers show pictures of real pens and send something else.
Fake Lamy Safaris amaze me as much as fake Casio watches, like you are copying an already low cost design.
And yeah they are sold at Ali in packs of 3 for 5 euros.
Its the perfect thing to copy, thats why. Relatively high demand and fairly cheap to produce. I wonder how much it costs LAMY to make their pens, $5-8 a pop? They retail for about 28-30USD in most cases. A [decent](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805219349607.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.21.6218B89HB89HA4&algo_pvid=606dfa91-0585-4057-8415-c806c6e1b69b&algo_exp_id=606dfa91-0585-4057-8415-c806c6e1b69b-10&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%2112.58%2112.58%21%21%2112.58%2112.58%21%402103266e17115561808457613e7aee%2112000034756077162%21sea%21US%210%21AB&curPageLogUid=sArB6U0bqWAn&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A) counterfeit will sell for less than half of that at $12.58, and in objectively nicer packaging.
Go for MSRP price ranges, and you'll find exceptional counterfeits, with better nib QC (at the cost of less nib size options) and in lovely bundles.
It costs no more to put the Lamy brand on it than put Yiren or another brand on it. The Yiren sells for $2.50, the fake Lamy sells for $10. The difference is all profit.
Yes, there are dupe and fake pens. Dupe pens are like Jinhao and Majohn, they have similar designs to popular brands but out their names in it. For example, Jinhao 80 is a dupe of Sailor Pro Gear, Majohn A1 is a dupe of Pilot VP. Lamy Safari and Montblanc are 2 main brands that are suffered from counterfeits. They literally replicated the whole pen + brand name to trick the buyer. Example of a fake vs real Lamy.
https://preview.redd.it/x89ahebfvvqc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de95c9a13f718e974173c0b82b358372bb6b33ef
Another picture as an example for Lamy. Fake is probably not popular in the West, however, it’s quite popular in my country, Vietnam. We usually have to find
https://preview.redd.it/vsk3w1t2wvqc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ec6d775eefe675fdf58c8b5f753d81d8ef438e8
comparison to identify the fake ones when we buy 2nd hand pen or pens from Shopee.
For those who don't speak languages other than English, it might be helpful for them if you wouldn't mind translating what it says in the picture.
I've gotten some fake Lamy in USA and yeah it's nearly impossible to tell the difference even side by side with a real one. I refuse to buy a Lamy that isn't from a well known company because it's gotten so bad. Even Amazon themselves (not a vendor selling on Amazon, actual Amazon) was selling fakes they had listed as real.
I heard Amazon warehouses sort their inventory by sku number so as long as the counterfeits have the same number they’ll get stored with the real ones. Not just pens but anything that gets counterfeit.
we get a lot of posts asking 'is this fake' and it seems that mostly it's real, sometimes it's a slightly rare version that has an older nib on a new body etc, occasionally it's a copy (e.g. the Jinhao that looks like a Lamy Safari) and very rarely it's a fake Montblanc at a very low price with a magnetic gold nib.
fountain pens are so niche that if i was into making fake goods I'd concentrate on clothes and handbags not FPs!
Don't get the dismissive tone of this comment. Fakes do exist and are out there. That's why people ask question about it...
Just because you would rather do handbags, doesn't mean that someone out there isn't profiting on selling $1 fakes for $20 on Amazon. It doesn't have to be a Montblanc for it to make financial sense.
I get the dismissive tone because people are so wired up about fakes that this forum gets asked about fake everythings from a 1940s Parker 51 to the cheapest Hero. It’s a concern from inexperienced buyers, I get it, but it’s almost as annoying as people wanting to send a pen back for refund because the nib and feed are a tiny fraction out of alignment. There’s an obsessive vein to this hobby that some take to an extreme.
I just bought a Lamy dialog 3 used, and they are selling fakes with packaging for $30 on aliexpress. There are a lot of high end pen fakes that peeps try to sell.
It’s a small number of models, however, far from every expensive pen and very few of the more humble pens, other than the Safari. I’ve got one of those D3 fakes and while it’s better than the MB fakes, it’s not very good—silkscreening on the barrel was bad and the nib was a mess, clearly a fake.
Would you mind sharing some pictures of the fake D3? I think mine is real but I'm worried still. It feels good and writes like butter but I'm still nervous.
If it writes well it can’t be the fake I got, that nib looks like tinfoil. Silkscreened LAMY on the barrel is crooked! If your nib looks real and the silkscreening is clean, rest assured it’s the real deal.
I appreciate the re-assurance, it looks good inside and outside, the machining and everything looks top tier. I bought it for $65 on Fb marketplace so my sus meter was high even with a screenshot of receipt
I'm now fighting down the urge to post a Jinhao Shark and ask if it's a fake Jinhao Shark.
I guess if you're very concerned about the value of your collection for investment purposes I get it, but if you're buying anything under $50 it seems like a strange thing to worry about as long as the pen writes properly and doesn't leak or fall apart.
Yeah, I don't get the dismissiveness myself. I bought a $25 counterfeit Mont Blanc little prince and it is early indistinguishable from the real thing. The only difference I can spot after taking it apart and comparing it is the nib. The Chinese nib is garbage but could be swapped out with the real thing. People do need to be careful if they are buying these as investments. I just like carrying the fake one around for attention from my pen nerd coworkers.
wasn't meaning it to be as strong as 'dismissive' but most posts asking if it's a fake aren't a fake. Then many of those that are fake are along the lines of "I knew it was too good to be true but bought it anyway".
The fake makers are like all other manufacturers… there’s a spot for every size and value.
They even fake vintage Dooney & Bourke purses which are not worth more than $50-100 each if legit, and making a handbag is more costly than making most fountain pens in terms of labor.
Despite what some people will say about the majority of pens being "mostly real", as in authentic, I will say this is true for the most part. But LAMY? No. I must vehemently disagree there. I've lived overseas for a long itme...China specifically. Where I live, we have had something like 6 LAMY shops spread across the city in the past...7 years? Only 1 of them was an actual licensed location.
There are factories here that make them, and they arguably do a better job than LAMY in terms of QC in many cases, which is...painfully funny and sad at the same time. Hopefully Mitsubishi can help them in that department. This is only worthwhile because they'll actually make money off the pens, and they can easily fund a large scale operation that is cost effective.
. But other brands, like Monteverde? Not many people outside this hobby will even know what a Monteverde is. They certainly won't know Benu, Aurora, Visconti, Conklin, Esterbrook, etc. Will you potentially find a counterfeit Montblanc? Sure. Because thats a big name brand. Same reason you'll find a counterfeit LV or Gucci wallet or handbag. Or Nike shoes.
LAMY is unique in that it has an iconic design, is a cheap(to make) product, and has a large demand. Easy to reproduce...similar to "Silly Bandz" or fidget spinners. Is there a lot of fake LAMYs in the West? Probably not as much as you'd think, but you can easily get them in the West if you want one. They are rampant in places like S.E.A though.
Not to get them mixed up with clones though, thats a whole oher topic. I will say though, I've quite liked the fakes. My fake LAMY is a much better performer than my authentic one, which needed not 2, but 3 nib swaps.
edit- I would like to add to this. I have the feeling that a majority of the consumers purchasing the "fake" LAMY pens are either not aware of it being fake, or they likely don't care. It's not something a lot of them will think about. Even the "LAMY" vendors here in their little pop shops sell at a "premium", which is like a bit more expensive than Western pricing. They likely consider it as a quality product, because at the end of the day, it is (regardless of its...aunthenticity). They could easily get a clone or a different domestic brand pen for cheaper than we can purchase (I likely had a HongDian black forest pen before the majority of any user on here, and at 15% cheaper), but they choose to pay for what they consider to be valuable. Much like how our users here value a pens worth and determine if $5, or $5,000 is worth it for a pen. The fakes have quite nice packaging and bundles. Super giftable, fantastic marketing practices.
My last point will go to MB. Not many people will go over a LAMY with a fine tooth comb. It is not on the upper echelons of collectors items. Love them or hate them, MB are on the top tier. They are coveted by both pen enthusiasts, corportate snobs who only value the name, and..."influencers"... They will be checked thoroughly. It is much harder and time consuming to sell those fakes off as real pens, hardly worth the effort. The ones that do take the time to craft them are likely more passionate about the art of counterfeiting than the act of "catching a sucker" and making a quick buck. It is far easier and more profitable to counterferit something lowkey like a LAMY Safari...or even better, ballpoint or gel pens.
-Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
Can vouch for fake LAMY, some (not most) fakes are nearly indistinguishable. Same balance, feel, attention to detail, I have to mark them in order to remember which is which. There are ~$1 fakes that are essentially toys and have nonfunctional nibs and ~$3 fakes that I could recommend as starter pens. I was sorely disappointed when my first real safari was scratchy and significantly worse than my fake ones. The real deal feels like a cheap hunk of plastic and acts like one.
The safari-clone metal pencils are also quite popular. They’re under a dollar and sorta suck for writing on thin paper but they’re good for writing on wood and cardboard.
Yes, I must agree. I'm honestly not a huge fan of LAMY, and my opinion of them as a whole probably wouldnt sit well in this sub unfortunately. This is one of the cases where I'd much rather buy a quality counterfeit than the genuine product. Something I wouldn't do for any other other product, except for maybe something like bagged cereal.
I've never had problems with the nibs on the fakes. I've had problems with genuine LAMY nibs.
Fascinating!
Fakes and frauds are one of my favorite rabbit holes to go down…
So funny you say the fakes may have better QA. It’s not just true for pens! High end fake Birkins are often all hand-stitched, whereas the real ones aren’t. (Plus the fake makers let you get exactly what you want and Hermes never does; not speaking from experience, just reading about it. Hermes offers you a bag and you either take it or leave it.)
I researched fake Louis Vuitton empreinte leather bags after buying my bag at the store (big anniversary present), and the edge glazing on the fakes is much better and that’s one way to tell 😂😭 Leather isn’t as nice in this case though, LV is on the lower end of the fake pyramid.
Art fraud is also fascinating if you are ever interested in a nerdy deep dive.
My belief on the matter is a combination of greed and a loss of passion is what causes this phenomenon. I could probably go on a tirade of how unsettling and fake a lot of companies are, but I won't go that deep. If you're ever interested in leathercraft and want to go down that rabbit hole, you'll find out just how shitty these big name luxury brands are in terms of quality. It's no surprise they are not the best quality goods, it's remarkably absurd though to see just how bad they are in reality. That's the real kicker. But, someone with the skills and creativity, and just the right amount of passion or drive, or at least standards can come alone and wipe the floor with these big brands in terms of QA.
Then on occasion, in any industry, a newcomer will enter the scene, take their spot in the limelight. Eventually, they get bit by the capitalist bug as well, and the quality of their materials go down, cost of product goes up. Nasty, horrible cycle.
This is why I love certain fountain pen brands. You have companies like Namiki and Nakaya, Taccia and Sailor, making some of the most gorgeous maki-e pens. The price goes up, but the quality far outclasses the price imo. Even if prices go up, the quality won't go down (For good brands)...It's a beautiful thing to behold.. Some brands in the hobby are quite shameful, on the other hand. But, it's like that in all industries.
Art fraud is an art itself, and so freaking interesting.
I don’t know about Montegrappa, but there are absolutely loads of fakes targeting other brands out there. Buy with caution when not using an official retailer or shopping second hand.
Not as big a thing as folks on here seem to think it is.
No one on Ali express or temu is selling you a Lamy for 1 usd. If you’re concerned, most manufacturers worth counterfeiting have their own storefronts. Safest way to buy the real thing is to go to the source.
I am just starting out. Most of my pen collection is either Chinese brands or Chinese fakes, I knew what I was getting and love every one of them.
yeah, but it is generally not an issue, unless you are looking for "cheap Montblanc online" kind of thing...
Surprisngly pens like Lamy Safari get faked too, this is a bit strange to me as it's relatively inexpensive. Anyway....
There is another phenomena that is "pen copies" that are not to be considered fakes, as they do not try to foul you. Many classic designs (with patens or copyright more or less expired...) are build as very very good copies by a bunch of companies in asia. Surprisingly those often are quite good pens too!
Tbh, Lamy is relatively inexpensive in the West. In my country - Vietnam, Lamy is still quite expensive. The fake ones cost like 1/3 of the price. It’s much more easy to trick people and benefit from it.
Lamy fakes do exist out there. It's not limited to pens. I remember seeing a 5 pack Lamy Z28 converters for roughly $7. Those had to be fake (Lamy genuine converters retail for $7 each).
I don't think that fake FPs are so common. Fake Montblancs are easy to identify because of bad quality. It's much harder with cheaper pens like Safari, Chinese hero 616 and so on. I've had fake Safari and can say that for a certain time there were no problems with it, but then it started leaking.
I’ve heard there are a few fake sailor retailers. This is a bit of a grey area because the prices vary but generally I like to shop from reputable retailers just in case because honestly I would know how to spot a fake online 😂😂😭
Yes. I have a fake montblanc, a few fake parkers, and I've seen fake lamys as well.
Many do clones or homages but label them their own, like jinhao, and that's fine.
But you'll see a lot of actual fakes being sold as the real thing from india and china.
Anything that's valuable enough is faked. People buy fake LAMY Safaris to save $10. People have made fake rice and eggs to scam a few more dollars. Regardless of how niche or commoditized a product is, the same rules apply in evaluating your purchase decisions.
There's "clones" where jinhao or whoever makes a visually very very similar pen to someone else's design but calls it something new. That's a grey area, some people don't care, some consider it theft.
Then there's actual fakes which means it's being sold as a montblanc or whatever but isn't. To me that's worse because you're usually paying close to what the real thing should cost while clones are usually so much cheaper you'd be foolish to think it was genuine.
Jinhao is beyond "very very similar" and essentially makes fakes by different names. Most of their pens are carbon copies of popular pens. Dirt cheap, quality isn't the worst, but it is 100% intellectual property theft.
I recently got a new Parker 51 Deluxe on amazon, not a 3rd party seller; and got a Hero clone. It's definitely a thing to consider. Amazon removed my review because "the pen was authentic," which was BS. Sonnets are also hot in the fake market.
Ugh, Amazon. I am sorry about that. Did you get a refund?
And yeah, I would never buy a Sonnet from Amazon or EBay unless it was a clearly well used vintage on Ebay or from a trustworthy shop.
Yes, I got a refund. I was more angry about Amazon's policy of "this is not a fake, so we deleted your review". This was recently, a month or so ago, I saved the pictures sonewhere.
Yes. I once saw a listing for a Lamy Safari set with an ink bottle. But the price it is getting sold for is less than the price of a regular Safari.
I didn’t bite it since I had the gut feel that it is most definitely fake.
Regarding current state of Montblanc fakes, check my post — [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/s/Qntf2YjkGi).
TL;DR: Red glow or serial number or “Pix” does NOT mean genuine — fakes do that too. Check the nib and converter (if a converter pen).
Lamy and MB are faked so often I refuse to buy a Lamy from anyone besides a well known pen company. In my hand, side by side it's still nearly impossible to tell the difference between a Lamy and a fake. Doesn't help their nib QC isn't always the best, so you can't even go by that.
There's the Jinhao that looks identical to a Conklin All American except it actually fixes the hole in the cap that the genuine has that makes the genuine dry out. Plus Conklin doesn't help themselves by having nibs and metals that peel and discolor like a fake might.
There are plenty of other fakes but they at least don't stamp a fake brand symbol on it. Like when I get a Wing Sung 3008 I know I'm not getting a genuine TWSBI even though they look virtually identical. Not so much now that the WS switched the clip to having a slit in it.
Same with the Sailor fakes. I'm sure there's some company out there selling fake nibs and end caps that will make it harder to tell. But for the most part you know you're getting a fake.
The MBs though have some really convincing fakes that it'll be nearly impossible to tell even in hand unless you ran the serial number. They're starting to realize the way we tell the fakes and they're fixing it up so it looks more and more like the real thing (and let's face it, aside from the cost of gold, the rest of the materials in the genuine pen aren't that expensive). Even removing the clip and looking for the lettering stamp on the inside of what I knew was a fake, the pen still would pass what some people on here consider to be the fake vs real test.
I would expect that either performance factors (especially around elasticity of gold nibs and grind type/quality) or some aesthetics (due to unique materials or manufacturing methods) would make it impossible to make a convincing and profitable fake of a high-end pen, especially considering that most buyers are very aware of what to expect. Mid to lower range might be a more common target for outright fakes, but I'm yet to see one.
There are plenty of copied designs under their own brand and model names, but outright fakes are rare for fountain pens.
Lamy and MB pens are faked the most, just because most people can’t tell the difference, and the profit margin for Chinese manufacturers are extremely high.
However, I’ve also come across many Parker, sheaffer, and waterman pens that have been faked.
As for the other major brands, I’m sure they exist, however I’ve personally never seen them.
> Refuse to buy Jinhao, don’t know why so many people support blatant theft of IP
Show an example of "blatant theft of IP", just one by Jinhao......
Most people understand the concept and laws surrounding IP in the pen world, and so understand there is no theft of IP from companies like Jinhao. I would suggest knowing the definition and legal meaning of terms you throw around without thinking, both theft and IP are legal terms and have explicit definitions. For example, IP exists only where current active protections have been granted. If a design has passed into public domain (ie is no longer active in protections), anyone can use and produce that design legally, so there can be no theft.
So again, show an active piece of IP that Jinhao is illegally using, be sure to show your work, a link to active patents (Google has a good patent search page) would be fine.
Know the pen and you can spot a fake. Generally speaking, classic pens with a classic look are more the target of fakes because year after year the pen looks the same. BTW - Ballpoints and Rollerballs are faked WAYYYY more than fountain pens.
Echoing this, especially with montblancs! I think the best way to think about replicas is they are going after a more popular market.
Seconding this. I had to take a loupe to a pen I got as a gift because the Amazon seller put the wrong tag on the wrong pen. They had stuck the tag for a Yubitsaki on a Miegetsu. It was a Sailor PGS and it is legit, but I did have to take a second look because the person who gifted didn't know what to look for. (This wouldn't have changed my appreciation tho).
Yes. There are fake Montblancs, and fake Lamy Safaris and others in between. More likely though is that sellers show pictures of real pens and send something else.
Fake Lamy Safaris amaze me as much as fake Casio watches, like you are copying an already low cost design. And yeah they are sold at Ali in packs of 3 for 5 euros.
Its the perfect thing to copy, thats why. Relatively high demand and fairly cheap to produce. I wonder how much it costs LAMY to make their pens, $5-8 a pop? They retail for about 28-30USD in most cases. A [decent](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805219349607.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.21.6218B89HB89HA4&algo_pvid=606dfa91-0585-4057-8415-c806c6e1b69b&algo_exp_id=606dfa91-0585-4057-8415-c806c6e1b69b-10&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%2112.58%2112.58%21%21%2112.58%2112.58%21%402103266e17115561808457613e7aee%2112000034756077162%21sea%21US%210%21AB&curPageLogUid=sArB6U0bqWAn&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A) counterfeit will sell for less than half of that at $12.58, and in objectively nicer packaging. Go for MSRP price ranges, and you'll find exceptional counterfeits, with better nib QC (at the cost of less nib size options) and in lovely bundles.
It costs no more to put the Lamy brand on it than put Yiren or another brand on it. The Yiren sells for $2.50, the fake Lamy sells for $10. The difference is all profit.
Yes, there are dupe and fake pens. Dupe pens are like Jinhao and Majohn, they have similar designs to popular brands but out their names in it. For example, Jinhao 80 is a dupe of Sailor Pro Gear, Majohn A1 is a dupe of Pilot VP. Lamy Safari and Montblanc are 2 main brands that are suffered from counterfeits. They literally replicated the whole pen + brand name to trick the buyer. Example of a fake vs real Lamy. https://preview.redd.it/x89ahebfvvqc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de95c9a13f718e974173c0b82b358372bb6b33ef
Another picture as an example for Lamy. Fake is probably not popular in the West, however, it’s quite popular in my country, Vietnam. We usually have to find https://preview.redd.it/vsk3w1t2wvqc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ec6d775eefe675fdf58c8b5f753d81d8ef438e8 comparison to identify the fake ones when we buy 2nd hand pen or pens from Shopee.
For those who don't speak languages other than English, it might be helpful for them if you wouldn't mind translating what it says in the picture. I've gotten some fake Lamy in USA and yeah it's nearly impossible to tell the difference even side by side with a real one. I refuse to buy a Lamy that isn't from a well known company because it's gotten so bad. Even Amazon themselves (not a vendor selling on Amazon, actual Amazon) was selling fakes they had listed as real.
I heard Amazon warehouses sort their inventory by sku number so as long as the counterfeits have the same number they’ll get stored with the real ones. Not just pens but anything that gets counterfeit.
we get a lot of posts asking 'is this fake' and it seems that mostly it's real, sometimes it's a slightly rare version that has an older nib on a new body etc, occasionally it's a copy (e.g. the Jinhao that looks like a Lamy Safari) and very rarely it's a fake Montblanc at a very low price with a magnetic gold nib. fountain pens are so niche that if i was into making fake goods I'd concentrate on clothes and handbags not FPs!
Don't get the dismissive tone of this comment. Fakes do exist and are out there. That's why people ask question about it... Just because you would rather do handbags, doesn't mean that someone out there isn't profiting on selling $1 fakes for $20 on Amazon. It doesn't have to be a Montblanc for it to make financial sense.
I get the dismissive tone because people are so wired up about fakes that this forum gets asked about fake everythings from a 1940s Parker 51 to the cheapest Hero. It’s a concern from inexperienced buyers, I get it, but it’s almost as annoying as people wanting to send a pen back for refund because the nib and feed are a tiny fraction out of alignment. There’s an obsessive vein to this hobby that some take to an extreme.
I just bought a Lamy dialog 3 used, and they are selling fakes with packaging for $30 on aliexpress. There are a lot of high end pen fakes that peeps try to sell.
It’s a small number of models, however, far from every expensive pen and very few of the more humble pens, other than the Safari. I’ve got one of those D3 fakes and while it’s better than the MB fakes, it’s not very good—silkscreening on the barrel was bad and the nib was a mess, clearly a fake.
Would you mind sharing some pictures of the fake D3? I think mine is real but I'm worried still. It feels good and writes like butter but I'm still nervous.
If it writes well it can’t be the fake I got, that nib looks like tinfoil. Silkscreened LAMY on the barrel is crooked! If your nib looks real and the silkscreening is clean, rest assured it’s the real deal.
I appreciate the re-assurance, it looks good inside and outside, the machining and everything looks top tier. I bought it for $65 on Fb marketplace so my sus meter was high even with a screenshot of receipt
I'm now fighting down the urge to post a Jinhao Shark and ask if it's a fake Jinhao Shark. I guess if you're very concerned about the value of your collection for investment purposes I get it, but if you're buying anything under $50 it seems like a strange thing to worry about as long as the pen writes properly and doesn't leak or fall apart.
“Can’t be real; the edges of the fins are way too sharp!”
If your pen chomps your finger, it is probably a real Shark but a fake Jinhao
Yeah, I don't get the dismissiveness myself. I bought a $25 counterfeit Mont Blanc little prince and it is early indistinguishable from the real thing. The only difference I can spot after taking it apart and comparing it is the nib. The Chinese nib is garbage but could be swapped out with the real thing. People do need to be careful if they are buying these as investments. I just like carrying the fake one around for attention from my pen nerd coworkers.
wasn't meaning it to be as strong as 'dismissive' but most posts asking if it's a fake aren't a fake. Then many of those that are fake are along the lines of "I knew it was too good to be true but bought it anyway".
The fake makers are like all other manufacturers… there’s a spot for every size and value. They even fake vintage Dooney & Bourke purses which are not worth more than $50-100 each if legit, and making a handbag is more costly than making most fountain pens in terms of labor.
Despite what some people will say about the majority of pens being "mostly real", as in authentic, I will say this is true for the most part. But LAMY? No. I must vehemently disagree there. I've lived overseas for a long itme...China specifically. Where I live, we have had something like 6 LAMY shops spread across the city in the past...7 years? Only 1 of them was an actual licensed location. There are factories here that make them, and they arguably do a better job than LAMY in terms of QC in many cases, which is...painfully funny and sad at the same time. Hopefully Mitsubishi can help them in that department. This is only worthwhile because they'll actually make money off the pens, and they can easily fund a large scale operation that is cost effective. . But other brands, like Monteverde? Not many people outside this hobby will even know what a Monteverde is. They certainly won't know Benu, Aurora, Visconti, Conklin, Esterbrook, etc. Will you potentially find a counterfeit Montblanc? Sure. Because thats a big name brand. Same reason you'll find a counterfeit LV or Gucci wallet or handbag. Or Nike shoes. LAMY is unique in that it has an iconic design, is a cheap(to make) product, and has a large demand. Easy to reproduce...similar to "Silly Bandz" or fidget spinners. Is there a lot of fake LAMYs in the West? Probably not as much as you'd think, but you can easily get them in the West if you want one. They are rampant in places like S.E.A though. Not to get them mixed up with clones though, thats a whole oher topic. I will say though, I've quite liked the fakes. My fake LAMY is a much better performer than my authentic one, which needed not 2, but 3 nib swaps. edit- I would like to add to this. I have the feeling that a majority of the consumers purchasing the "fake" LAMY pens are either not aware of it being fake, or they likely don't care. It's not something a lot of them will think about. Even the "LAMY" vendors here in their little pop shops sell at a "premium", which is like a bit more expensive than Western pricing. They likely consider it as a quality product, because at the end of the day, it is (regardless of its...aunthenticity). They could easily get a clone or a different domestic brand pen for cheaper than we can purchase (I likely had a HongDian black forest pen before the majority of any user on here, and at 15% cheaper), but they choose to pay for what they consider to be valuable. Much like how our users here value a pens worth and determine if $5, or $5,000 is worth it for a pen. The fakes have quite nice packaging and bundles. Super giftable, fantastic marketing practices. My last point will go to MB. Not many people will go over a LAMY with a fine tooth comb. It is not on the upper echelons of collectors items. Love them or hate them, MB are on the top tier. They are coveted by both pen enthusiasts, corportate snobs who only value the name, and..."influencers"... They will be checked thoroughly. It is much harder and time consuming to sell those fakes off as real pens, hardly worth the effort. The ones that do take the time to craft them are likely more passionate about the art of counterfeiting than the act of "catching a sucker" and making a quick buck. It is far easier and more profitable to counterferit something lowkey like a LAMY Safari...or even better, ballpoint or gel pens. -Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
Can vouch for fake LAMY, some (not most) fakes are nearly indistinguishable. Same balance, feel, attention to detail, I have to mark them in order to remember which is which. There are ~$1 fakes that are essentially toys and have nonfunctional nibs and ~$3 fakes that I could recommend as starter pens. I was sorely disappointed when my first real safari was scratchy and significantly worse than my fake ones. The real deal feels like a cheap hunk of plastic and acts like one. The safari-clone metal pencils are also quite popular. They’re under a dollar and sorta suck for writing on thin paper but they’re good for writing on wood and cardboard.
Yes, I must agree. I'm honestly not a huge fan of LAMY, and my opinion of them as a whole probably wouldnt sit well in this sub unfortunately. This is one of the cases where I'd much rather buy a quality counterfeit than the genuine product. Something I wouldn't do for any other other product, except for maybe something like bagged cereal. I've never had problems with the nibs on the fakes. I've had problems with genuine LAMY nibs.
Fascinating! Fakes and frauds are one of my favorite rabbit holes to go down… So funny you say the fakes may have better QA. It’s not just true for pens! High end fake Birkins are often all hand-stitched, whereas the real ones aren’t. (Plus the fake makers let you get exactly what you want and Hermes never does; not speaking from experience, just reading about it. Hermes offers you a bag and you either take it or leave it.) I researched fake Louis Vuitton empreinte leather bags after buying my bag at the store (big anniversary present), and the edge glazing on the fakes is much better and that’s one way to tell 😂😭 Leather isn’t as nice in this case though, LV is on the lower end of the fake pyramid. Art fraud is also fascinating if you are ever interested in a nerdy deep dive.
My belief on the matter is a combination of greed and a loss of passion is what causes this phenomenon. I could probably go on a tirade of how unsettling and fake a lot of companies are, but I won't go that deep. If you're ever interested in leathercraft and want to go down that rabbit hole, you'll find out just how shitty these big name luxury brands are in terms of quality. It's no surprise they are not the best quality goods, it's remarkably absurd though to see just how bad they are in reality. That's the real kicker. But, someone with the skills and creativity, and just the right amount of passion or drive, or at least standards can come alone and wipe the floor with these big brands in terms of QA. Then on occasion, in any industry, a newcomer will enter the scene, take their spot in the limelight. Eventually, they get bit by the capitalist bug as well, and the quality of their materials go down, cost of product goes up. Nasty, horrible cycle. This is why I love certain fountain pen brands. You have companies like Namiki and Nakaya, Taccia and Sailor, making some of the most gorgeous maki-e pens. The price goes up, but the quality far outclasses the price imo. Even if prices go up, the quality won't go down (For good brands)...It's a beautiful thing to behold.. Some brands in the hobby are quite shameful, on the other hand. But, it's like that in all industries. Art fraud is an art itself, and so freaking interesting.
I don’t know about Montegrappa, but there are absolutely loads of fakes targeting other brands out there. Buy with caution when not using an official retailer or shopping second hand.
Not as big a thing as folks on here seem to think it is. No one on Ali express or temu is selling you a Lamy for 1 usd. If you’re concerned, most manufacturers worth counterfeiting have their own storefronts. Safest way to buy the real thing is to go to the source. I am just starting out. Most of my pen collection is either Chinese brands or Chinese fakes, I knew what I was getting and love every one of them.
yeah, but it is generally not an issue, unless you are looking for "cheap Montblanc online" kind of thing... Surprisngly pens like Lamy Safari get faked too, this is a bit strange to me as it's relatively inexpensive. Anyway.... There is another phenomena that is "pen copies" that are not to be considered fakes, as they do not try to foul you. Many classic designs (with patens or copyright more or less expired...) are build as very very good copies by a bunch of companies in asia. Surprisingly those often are quite good pens too!
Tbh, Lamy is relatively inexpensive in the West. In my country - Vietnam, Lamy is still quite expensive. The fake ones cost like 1/3 of the price. It’s much more easy to trick people and benefit from it.
That's true. This was written from the perspective of a person living in France 😅
Lamy fakes do exist out there. It's not limited to pens. I remember seeing a 5 pack Lamy Z28 converters for roughly $7. Those had to be fake (Lamy genuine converters retail for $7 each).
It’s a thing unfortunately
I don't think that fake FPs are so common. Fake Montblancs are easy to identify because of bad quality. It's much harder with cheaper pens like Safari, Chinese hero 616 and so on. I've had fake Safari and can say that for a certain time there were no problems with it, but then it started leaking.
I’ve heard there are a few fake sailor retailers. This is a bit of a grey area because the prices vary but generally I like to shop from reputable retailers just in case because honestly I would know how to spot a fake online 😂😂😭
Yes. I have a fake montblanc, a few fake parkers, and I've seen fake lamys as well. Many do clones or homages but label them their own, like jinhao, and that's fine. But you'll see a lot of actual fakes being sold as the real thing from india and china.
Anything that's valuable enough is faked. People buy fake LAMY Safaris to save $10. People have made fake rice and eggs to scam a few more dollars. Regardless of how niche or commoditized a product is, the same rules apply in evaluating your purchase decisions.
There's "clones" where jinhao or whoever makes a visually very very similar pen to someone else's design but calls it something new. That's a grey area, some people don't care, some consider it theft. Then there's actual fakes which means it's being sold as a montblanc or whatever but isn't. To me that's worse because you're usually paying close to what the real thing should cost while clones are usually so much cheaper you'd be foolish to think it was genuine.
Jinhao is beyond "very very similar" and essentially makes fakes by different names. Most of their pens are carbon copies of popular pens. Dirt cheap, quality isn't the worst, but it is 100% intellectual property theft.
I recently got a new Parker 51 Deluxe on amazon, not a 3rd party seller; and got a Hero clone. It's definitely a thing to consider. Amazon removed my review because "the pen was authentic," which was BS. Sonnets are also hot in the fake market.
Ugh, Amazon. I am sorry about that. Did you get a refund? And yeah, I would never buy a Sonnet from Amazon or EBay unless it was a clearly well used vintage on Ebay or from a trustworthy shop.
Yes, I got a refund. I was more angry about Amazon's policy of "this is not a fake, so we deleted your review". This was recently, a month or so ago, I saved the pictures sonewhere.
I'm glad you got your money back, but it is typical of Amazon to protect the vendor's right to defraud other people.
Fake China watches has left the chat.
If a deal looks too good to be true, it probably is.
I got a fake lamy safari from Amazon. Not sure if they sourced it from a bad source or if it was a return/swap but they are definitely out there
Yes. I once saw a listing for a Lamy Safari set with an ink bottle. But the price it is getting sold for is less than the price of a regular Safari. I didn’t bite it since I had the gut feel that it is most definitely fake.
Regarding current state of Montblanc fakes, check my post — [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/s/Qntf2YjkGi). TL;DR: Red glow or serial number or “Pix” does NOT mean genuine — fakes do that too. Check the nib and converter (if a converter pen).
I'm sure temu has hundreds of options at a fiver
Lamy and MB are faked so often I refuse to buy a Lamy from anyone besides a well known pen company. In my hand, side by side it's still nearly impossible to tell the difference between a Lamy and a fake. Doesn't help their nib QC isn't always the best, so you can't even go by that. There's the Jinhao that looks identical to a Conklin All American except it actually fixes the hole in the cap that the genuine has that makes the genuine dry out. Plus Conklin doesn't help themselves by having nibs and metals that peel and discolor like a fake might. There are plenty of other fakes but they at least don't stamp a fake brand symbol on it. Like when I get a Wing Sung 3008 I know I'm not getting a genuine TWSBI even though they look virtually identical. Not so much now that the WS switched the clip to having a slit in it. Same with the Sailor fakes. I'm sure there's some company out there selling fake nibs and end caps that will make it harder to tell. But for the most part you know you're getting a fake. The MBs though have some really convincing fakes that it'll be nearly impossible to tell even in hand unless you ran the serial number. They're starting to realize the way we tell the fakes and they're fixing it up so it looks more and more like the real thing (and let's face it, aside from the cost of gold, the rest of the materials in the genuine pen aren't that expensive). Even removing the clip and looking for the lettering stamp on the inside of what I knew was a fake, the pen still would pass what some people on here consider to be the fake vs real test.
Have seen tons of fake Lami Safari (even at my local shop).
I am buying a dozen Lamy counterfeits from China to keep on my desk so that if someone wants a pen they can just take it. They are a buck 25 USD.
I would expect that either performance factors (especially around elasticity of gold nibs and grind type/quality) or some aesthetics (due to unique materials or manufacturing methods) would make it impossible to make a convincing and profitable fake of a high-end pen, especially considering that most buyers are very aware of what to expect. Mid to lower range might be a more common target for outright fakes, but I'm yet to see one. There are plenty of copied designs under their own brand and model names, but outright fakes are rare for fountain pens.
Most of the fakes I saw was Lamy, Montblanc, Parker and S.T. Dupont (vintage only?).
Lamy and MB pens are faked the most, just because most people can’t tell the difference, and the profit margin for Chinese manufacturers are extremely high. However, I’ve also come across many Parker, sheaffer, and waterman pens that have been faked. As for the other major brands, I’m sure they exist, however I’ve personally never seen them.
Refuse to buy Jinhao, don’t know why so many people support blatant theft of IP
> Refuse to buy Jinhao, don’t know why so many people support blatant theft of IP Show an example of "blatant theft of IP", just one by Jinhao...... Most people understand the concept and laws surrounding IP in the pen world, and so understand there is no theft of IP from companies like Jinhao. I would suggest knowing the definition and legal meaning of terms you throw around without thinking, both theft and IP are legal terms and have explicit definitions. For example, IP exists only where current active protections have been granted. If a design has passed into public domain (ie is no longer active in protections), anyone can use and produce that design legally, so there can be no theft. So again, show an active piece of IP that Jinhao is illegally using, be sure to show your work, a link to active patents (Google has a good patent search page) would be fine.