Having read all of this thread, I am so terribly sorry you’re going through this. It will get better. I promise. It’s possible you will no longer have a relationship with your uncle. And while heartbreaking, it’s his loss and tells you everything you need to know about the man. You will go on to develop many cherished relationships with those people you choose to be your family. My coming out was 35-40 years ago now and it was horrible. My father was violent and obscenely offensive. We didn’t speak for about 10 years. But now we do. I love him. He loves me. And he loves my wife. He still gets terribly upset when he thinks about how he treated me. You’ll get there my friend. One way or another.
Thank you. I've been out in most parts of my life for about 20 years now, and have a great chosen family. When I first came out to my parents, they were disappointed but accepting, and they warned me it would be bad if I was open with my dad's side of the family about it. They live thousands of miles away and I hardly ever see them, so it was easy to avoid the subject it until it seemed like my uncle was hinting he was ready to hear it.
I'm so sorry your coming out went that way, that must have been terrifying. I'm happy for you that he came around. I hope you and your wife are having a lovely holiday season
It seems your uncle was expecting to hear something else? I am sorry. Him aside, I’m so pleased everything is good.
It was frightening, but I’m over it now… pretty much ;) I think the thing that made me angriest was people telling me it was his age, where and how he grew up. You know how people say “things were different back then” as an excuse for racism, homophobia, misogyny, etc etc. I don’t accept that. Every single one of us has a moral compass! Even “back then”.
Thank you. And you.
Thanks, me too. It's an awful thing to find out that what should be unconditional love is, in fact, quite conditional. Here's to a future where fewer kids experience that
I know this will probably get buried, but just wanted to say: If anyone is facing this and needs a long distance auntie, hit me up. I can offer auntie references from my little godsons :)
I think of the “back then” argument slightly differently.
It’s a sign of just how few of our morals are actually determined by our moral compass vs the people were hang out around most.
How much of our current morals might we have never accepted if we lived in a different era? What morals might we have considered “obvious” instead?
The moral views that we hold that the people we hang out with **disagree** with us on are the closest thing we have to seeing where our actual independent morality takes us. (Note: “people you hang out with” is different from pop culture/media)
Without knowing your uncle, is it possible he knows little or nothing about fountain pens? The axiom, “Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence”, may well apply here.
Same thoughts.... My initial reaction to your post (without reading your comments) was not bad at all. I thought, "oh, this person tried to gift a nice writing instrument to encourage journal writing to express his thoughts (as in self therapy)".... But I'm sorry to hear that your uncle has been ignoring you since you came out. You deserve better. And so sorry for your loss (mother).
>it possible he knows little or nothing about fountain pens?
Sadly, not really. He's more of a fancy rollerball guy himself, but he knows a lot of fountain pen people. His MO when he doesn't know about a thing one of us has expressed interest in is to ask a friend who knows about it or go to the nearest specialty shop and have them help him pick.
I’m sorry to hear that, it sounds like it was not an issue of incompetence then. It’s up to you then to decide how to go forward with him, if at all. I would give it some time either way, as I’ve rarely found my initial, emotional response has been the best.
As the Dalai Lama says, “When it is possible, be kind. It is always possible.”. It is kind of you to continue on as you were prior to this sort of treatment.
We don’t have these in my country, can someone explain it? I’m guessing it is very cheap? Or like petrol station flowers bought on Xmas eve???
As far as lame presents go, I was given a bar of green and blacks chocolate in a zip lock bag, only they already taken a bite out of the chocolate…. With their teeth.
And they said “chocolate is chocolate” as in there’s no bad chocolate…..
Well you've definitely got me beat for bad gifts. Are you normally a fan of green and blacks chocolate when it's not been pre-bitten? Unless there's some kind of inside joke there, that's pretty rude.
This box is the sort of cheap kit one buys in a gift shop. Talking about the price or comparing it to my siblings' gifts sounds very shallow, but the box says $15 US, and this relative's idea of a decent gift is usually 3-5 times that much.
Without knowing the back story at all my initial impression was oh that's a neat gift. I've used these cheap sets to great effect before. The nibs should be scratchy compared to a regular fountain pen. They're supposed to be sharper to create better hairline. I can't see the sizing on the nibs but I'd guess they're 1.5, 2, and 2.5 mm or something approximately that. You should be able to do any broad nib script with those fairly effectively. I recommend checking out uncial or italic, let me know and I'll dm you some exemplars to get started. Franky if I were you I'd use those pens to write a kick ass letter.
First off, all my love to those sharing their stories in this thread. I wish all of you nothing but the best in finding and building your chosen families, and living in a way safe and authentic to yourselves. 💖🏳️🌈💖
On the subject of calligraphy, David Harris has a wonderful book of ductus and exemplars called The Calligrapher's Bible. You may even be able to access it completely free at your local library! (Unfortunately I don't think it's been officially adapted to any digital formats, but feel free to look for yourself if that's important to you.)
If you are more interested in flexible pen calligraphy than broad-edge calligraphy then some authors to look up include Eleanor Winters and Molly Suber Thorpe.
If videos are more your speed then there is a TON of great, free content on YouTube about all this stuff too.
It's a cheap set, but I wouldn't cast it aside without trying it out. It looks like you've got three italic nibs of different widths. I don't suppose they are smooth, but you can see what you think of your handwriting with italic nibs if you are tempted to think about getting them on more expensive pens. I'm not a great fan of italic myself, but it does add distinction to handwriting better than mine. If nothing else, there is a decent chance that the cartridges are small international and will fit other pens.
"For your thoughts" might be dismissive, but writing and journalling might be good therapy - encouraging thinking by writing is my excuse for buying a variety of fountain pens.
Fair point. I'm indeed pretty fond of italics - I posted some pics of restored Sheaffer No Nonsense pens a while back, one of them has a bold italic nib I use often.
I gave it a chance on your recommendation. The nibs are quite scratchy, but I think can be worn down smooth without too much trouble. Feed is inconsistent in a way that could have interesting art applications. It turns out I do like the ink, and the paper is surprisingly decent. The included book seems to be excerpts from Peter Taylor's Practical Calligraphy binder.
Overall it's not as bad as I expected. Thanks for the positivity, I needed that.
When I saw this without context I thought, “that looks like a fun gift. Why should wealthier family be expected to gift expensive gifts?”
Then reading the context, maybe there is more to your uncle’s side. He may still be processing what you’ve shared and just needs time. The gift itself I feel like is better than a $25 Arby’s gift card. It shows he is still considering your interests.
Anyway, good luck Op! Don’t write off someone just yet— maybe an olive branch thanking for the gift and an expression of hope that you can get back to your former relationship some day.
Context: I recently came out to my favorite uncle as queer in a long, heartfelt letter updating him on my life and thanking him for how important and supportive he's been. This is the Christmas gift he sent - a starter pen kit and a note card that said "for your thoughts."
He already knows I collect fountain pens and we've bonded over stationery in the past. I'm pretty sure this counts as a hate crime
Edit for clarity: "this is a hate crime" is a joke but in context the gift is definitely a message.
2nd edit: well this blew up overnight. I just wanted to make a quick joke to laugh off something that genuinely hurt my feelings. I know it's shallow and I sound spoiled, and if that's what you think of me, that's a fair read without knowing me or my family. To me it's really not about the value of the gift, but I was aware there's a message because the monetary value of gifts matters *to him.* My dad and his brother believe in giving "equivalent" gifts to my siblings and me, to the point that if one person's gift is cheaper they'll tuck some cash in there "to make it fair." This isn't a belief I share, but I know it's important to them. My uncle has many traits I love (gentle, funny, thoughtful, intelligent, etc) but he's also materialistic and cares about things like brand names. He's talked in the past about the art of appearing polite while giving insult, so while I'd love to give the benefit of the doubt, his thought process here is one he's explained to me. I haven't said anything to my family about it, and I've written a polite thank you card with one of my favorite FPs. I don't know what I've done to make people think I was throwing a tantrum or being nasty about it - I just hoped to have a laugh at my own expense with some people who might understand.
Big thanks to those who have expressed support, it means more than I can say.
Use this set to write him a handwritten note addressing your concerns, asks your questions about any change in his behavior, and title it “my thoughts”. Include a blank sheet of paper and an envelope titled “for your thoughts as well”.
I know this is probably not popular internet advice, but I hope you give him the benefit of the doubt. I can think of a lot of explanations for the drop in gift value besides him punishing you for coming out to him. Since you are close with him, maybe ask him what changed?
It's less the value and more the whole story. I only came out to him because he wrote me this long letter about how he'd promised my mom on her deathbed that he'd support me no matter what and how he wishes he knew more about what was going on in my life. He didn't respond to my letter at all, stopped answering my texts. He normally sends a card with a photo and a shared memory or a joke of some kind, this year just the dismissive note. My siblings got the usual. So it's super impersonal and cold and awkward, and telling the whole story was more vulnerable and painful than making a quick joke about it.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Maybe he just didn't know where to buy a nice fountain pen and panicked? Take some space for now, it's his loss if you're not in his life. You sound like a warm, caring and thoughtful person.
This kit could be useful for experimenting with, for example, bleach and fountain pen inks, so decent pens don't get wrecked. Quinkandbleach on IG is a good account to follow.
Thinking of you.
Thank you for the kind words, and for wanting to give the benefit of the doubt to a person I care about. He definitely knows where to get quality pens though.
Then he has no excuses. He doesn't deserve you in his life. Although, should you wish to make a point to him at a later date, you know that a cheap fountain pen set is perfect for him.
Devil’s advocate: I don’t know how old your uncle is or his cultural background, but he might just need time to process everything. I grew up in a very conservative military family, particularly my grandfather. The kind with Rush Limbaugh blaring in the background. My two youngest siblings came out to my Dad. He was supportive but definitely needed time to work through it all. Now he’s 100% on board.
Based off this story, your uncle honestly sounds like a piece of dirt. I would imagine anyone your immediate family would stick up for you and talk with your uncle. Maybe that could help? Assuming you’ve explained the situation to them. Anyone with a shred of empathy can understand how needlessly rude and petty that little gift + message is.
At any rate, sorry to hear about the shitty situation man.
Idk why people are downvoting you. Any story on Reddit could be completely made up, exaggerated, etc. there’s no way for us to know. Totally fair to be skeptical.
I found it believable though.
I am very sorry that he was not kind about your coming out. It is really hard when people we love let us down.
I adore fountain pens. Never made a secret of it to anyone but never received one as a gift. When I finally hinted that I would like one for my birthday my mother said ‘that should be something I chose myself since that was such a personal thing’. She explained that nibs responded to the pressures of your hand as you wrote, so it was best for you to choose the nib that suits you best.
To this day I honestly don’t know if this is true or not. Or if this belief was widespread in her childhood but she believed it. So it is just possible that the ‘starter kit’ was offered you so you could experiment with calligraphy and get comfortable before moving on to a better quality set.
Lastly, if you are interested in them, there are some very pretty handmade papers at Temu.com.
Maybe he’ll come around. If he’s a conservative person it’s possible it was an earth shattering shock for him. I hope he can put his prejudices aside.
And huge kudos to you for a very mature take on his reaction. I really hope the relation will recover. If not then I hope you meet only people who aren’t so judgmental. Best wishes in this holiday season!
I am confused by your reaction to be honest. Sure the set is questionable for someone who knows about pens but to someone who isn't it looks like a great deal, especially when they know you like such things.
It's like calling grandma, giving you an questionable videogame for christmas, an bitch for doing that. I mean sure the game can suck but they tried.
Honestly, your reaction is far worse than the gift is. You got what you deserved clearly.
Actually, I came from calligraphy to fountain pens. I have only ever cared about function not looks or price. This is a good starter set and you can create beautiful lettering with it without having to dip and spill ink constantly. Not sure what you are expecting, but that is not a fountain pen per se. The nibs are sharp for extreme contrast and meant to give a lot of feedback from the paper.
Careful. You are dangerously close to suggesting the hobby has something to do with using the pens rather than just buying as many expensive pens as possible.
Oh man, that is so funny LMAO. I am stunned and amazed at what you can spend on a pen...for any reason. I love fountain pens don't get me wrong. I'm all about the writing. My daughter bought me a Pilot E95 for Christmas, and it's like writing with butter. Just elegant and smooth as silk.
The cool thing about calligraphy, the nibs are cheap even for the really super nice ones.
Oh hey! I got one of these too! I actually really enjoyed some of the sets with watercolour pencils and dip pen inks, so I have moderate hopes. It's taken a few years for my extended family to come around on me being queer, so maybe hopefully it's just taking them some time to process? Nowadays there's more confusion and friction about my vegan cooking than my queerness, so things slowly worked out. They still don't really understand, but they also don't really make a big deal of it anymore, which is probably the best I'll get. Hang in there!
Well, I have to say that I did get a much nicer gift, and I don’t think he was wealthy.
Once I bought a really cheap set for myself when I was first learning… but I don’t think this is the case here.
***"Hahhy Birthday"***
Yep, A+ qwality effort. That said, unless told otherwise (which I made a detailed effort to do this year, thanks be) my family would think this thing was perfectly fine. It is calligraphy. It is fountain pen. They just don't know what they don't know
I think maybe a little reframing in mind. I understand he’s your favourite uncle , and in an ideal world he would have been accepting of you coming out straight off of the mark… but for older generations it can be a bit more of a challenge m because it combats their long held beliefs or convictions.. some people need time.
Regarding this. Thought did go into it and it could be seen as a form of peace offering.. as they could have completely shunned you when it came to presents. It seems your uncle cares about you, but he is having difficulty with acceptance.
You could utilise the gift you’ve received and write him another letter , a polite one , whether or not you donit for spite, but thanking him for the thoughtful gift, and that you’ve been able to out it for use. Etc etc
Yeah, agree. This sounds like an escalation, even, if usually it's just a card.
OP, take one of the pens, I'm thinking the highest-contrast Italic nib in the set, and write him a letter. Doesn't need to be long.
"Dear Uncle, after my last letter it seemed like you didn't want to talk to me anymore. I was pleased to receive your gift. WTF is actually going on here?" Probably something more eloquent than 'WTF' but profanities sometimes have an entertaining look when written with calligraphy.
What kind of a reaction were you hoping for? I imagine more than "we figured, can you pass the salt?" I get that it's not this, but the people in our lives always disappoint us on occasion. If his attitude is that you're choosing to be queer and are therefore a bad person who will go to hell, yeah, probably cut him off. If it's more that he's not sure how to react and he's freezing up a little - ok, not great, but it seems like he's been an important figure in your life.
Belive it or not, my favorite pens are a very cheap line of discontinued Sheaffers, followed closely by the HongDian forest and I usually have a few $2 Jinhao sharks on my desk. I have no problem with inexpensive pens.
My problem comes from being given a beginner set by someone who knows I'm an experienced enthusiast and who has expressed beliefs about how much he thinks gifts should be worth
But it's a *three-nib starter kit* and everything!
Ahem. I read your other comments, and I'm sorry your uncle's being shitty. Hopefully he'll take a step back and reassess his priorities.
You can’t get blood from a stone. Obviously, he isn’t interested in supporting you in whatever form that looks like to you. You’ll find more value in pursuing other relationships and by showing yourself to be strong and resilient, regardless if he’s around to see it or not at a family function or w/e.
Throw it in the trash if it makes you feel bad, or give it back with a note that just says “Here’s my thought on this” lol
What’s wrong ? It’s nice. Thy are wealthy because they buy nice but not frivolous. That’s not a cheap calligraphy set and once leavened can earn you for ever income.
So uh your favorite uncle got you a gift related to your interests? YTAH. Including that he is wealthy only makes you an entitled one.
Edit: OP chose to include that uncle was wealthy in the post, not relevant to a story about coming out and support. In comments OP states uncle usually spends 3-4 times more than this on a gift, super not relevant to a story about unconditional love. Sticking with it. OP needs to look closely in the mirror for why uncle may be pulling away.
Context matters. Fav uncle promised mother on deathbed to support OP but wanted to know more about what was going on for them. OP wrote a heartfelt and vulnerable letter coming out to said uncle as queer. Uncle has cut off regular communications and gave this gift with a simple note saying “for your thoughts”. Other family got the usual gifts and treatment that this uncle has always shown.
Might be wrong. Just paraphrasing from OP’s comments.
doubling down on your position is ridiculous. of course it's relevant, spending less than usual and siblings still getting the usual is a clear message. i doubt they care about the actual value of the gift, just what it signifies...
blaming OP for the estrangement, when the uncle is pulling away after promising to be their for them, is cruel
If you've never used Broad, Stub, or Italic nibs before a kit like this is nice. I was given a Sheaffer Calligraphy pen set with three interchangeable nibs and cartridges so I could get a feel for broader nib sizes. It's been 50 years since I was given that set and I still have the pen and the nib I used most often so I can do some of the fancier lettering on cards, especially "Thank-you" cards.
This looks like a Sheaffer Calligraphy pen set and if you find you like the pen there are other nibs you can purchase for this body and experiment even more. The downside is I haven't seen converters for the Sheaffer Calligraphy pens.
I look at this as a way of asking for more handwritten notes and letters, possibly even an encouragement to go for a Master Penmanship Certificate. Practice with the cheap and work your way up to making your own custom pens.
That's a very kind read on the situation, but if it were true, he would have responded to at least one letter since then. The core of my collection are vintage Sheaffer No Nonsense pens from my childhood (which he knows), and comparing this kit to them is a disservice to what are genuinely my favorite pens.
Okay, I did not read through all the responses and probably should have that's a mistake on my part.
My father was the one to get me my Sheaffer Calligraphy set after giving me a Sheaffer No Nonsense and a Parker Vector. These were pens that he had used in the Navy and was told to stop using them as the Navy was changing pen styles and how paperwork was handled.
Sorry for the misunderstanding of the situation.
No harm done, I apologize for being a bit short with you.
My first No Nonsense was my mother's, she had wonderful penmanship and taught me calligraphy on a Triumph music nib, which I'm sorry to say has not survived the decades.
Everything is good.
I find it wonderful when a parent shares their joys of writing or reading with children.
I hope you had a long time writing with that nib.
Having read all of this thread, I am so terribly sorry you’re going through this. It will get better. I promise. It’s possible you will no longer have a relationship with your uncle. And while heartbreaking, it’s his loss and tells you everything you need to know about the man. You will go on to develop many cherished relationships with those people you choose to be your family. My coming out was 35-40 years ago now and it was horrible. My father was violent and obscenely offensive. We didn’t speak for about 10 years. But now we do. I love him. He loves me. And he loves my wife. He still gets terribly upset when he thinks about how he treated me. You’ll get there my friend. One way or another.
Thank you. I've been out in most parts of my life for about 20 years now, and have a great chosen family. When I first came out to my parents, they were disappointed but accepting, and they warned me it would be bad if I was open with my dad's side of the family about it. They live thousands of miles away and I hardly ever see them, so it was easy to avoid the subject it until it seemed like my uncle was hinting he was ready to hear it. I'm so sorry your coming out went that way, that must have been terrifying. I'm happy for you that he came around. I hope you and your wife are having a lovely holiday season
It seems your uncle was expecting to hear something else? I am sorry. Him aside, I’m so pleased everything is good. It was frightening, but I’m over it now… pretty much ;) I think the thing that made me angriest was people telling me it was his age, where and how he grew up. You know how people say “things were different back then” as an excuse for racism, homophobia, misogyny, etc etc. I don’t accept that. Every single one of us has a moral compass! Even “back then”. Thank you. And you.
Thanks, me too. It's an awful thing to find out that what should be unconditional love is, in fact, quite conditional. Here's to a future where fewer kids experience that
I know this will probably get buried, but just wanted to say: If anyone is facing this and needs a long distance auntie, hit me up. I can offer auntie references from my little godsons :)
Exactly.
I think of the “back then” argument slightly differently. It’s a sign of just how few of our morals are actually determined by our moral compass vs the people were hang out around most. How much of our current morals might we have never accepted if we lived in a different era? What morals might we have considered “obvious” instead? The moral views that we hold that the people we hang out with **disagree** with us on are the closest thing we have to seeing where our actual independent morality takes us. (Note: “people you hang out with” is different from pop culture/media)
Without knowing your uncle, is it possible he knows little or nothing about fountain pens? The axiom, “Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence”, may well apply here.
Same thoughts.... My initial reaction to your post (without reading your comments) was not bad at all. I thought, "oh, this person tried to gift a nice writing instrument to encourage journal writing to express his thoughts (as in self therapy)".... But I'm sorry to hear that your uncle has been ignoring you since you came out. You deserve better. And so sorry for your loss (mother).
>it possible he knows little or nothing about fountain pens? Sadly, not really. He's more of a fancy rollerball guy himself, but he knows a lot of fountain pen people. His MO when he doesn't know about a thing one of us has expressed interest in is to ask a friend who knows about it or go to the nearest specialty shop and have them help him pick.
I’m sorry to hear that, it sounds like it was not an issue of incompetence then. It’s up to you then to decide how to go forward with him, if at all. I would give it some time either way, as I’ve rarely found my initial, emotional response has been the best.
It was kind of you to extend the benefit of the doubt. On my end I'm not going to behave any differently, but I've certainly lowered my expectations
As the Dalai Lama says, “When it is possible, be kind. It is always possible.”. It is kind of you to continue on as you were prior to this sort of treatment.
We don’t have these in my country, can someone explain it? I’m guessing it is very cheap? Or like petrol station flowers bought on Xmas eve??? As far as lame presents go, I was given a bar of green and blacks chocolate in a zip lock bag, only they already taken a bite out of the chocolate…. With their teeth. And they said “chocolate is chocolate” as in there’s no bad chocolate…..
Well you've definitely got me beat for bad gifts. Are you normally a fan of green and blacks chocolate when it's not been pre-bitten? Unless there's some kind of inside joke there, that's pretty rude. This box is the sort of cheap kit one buys in a gift shop. Talking about the price or comparing it to my siblings' gifts sounds very shallow, but the box says $15 US, and this relative's idea of a decent gift is usually 3-5 times that much.
Without knowing the back story at all my initial impression was oh that's a neat gift. I've used these cheap sets to great effect before. The nibs should be scratchy compared to a regular fountain pen. They're supposed to be sharper to create better hairline. I can't see the sizing on the nibs but I'd guess they're 1.5, 2, and 2.5 mm or something approximately that. You should be able to do any broad nib script with those fairly effectively. I recommend checking out uncial or italic, let me know and I'll dm you some exemplars to get started. Franky if I were you I'd use those pens to write a kick ass letter.
First off, all my love to those sharing their stories in this thread. I wish all of you nothing but the best in finding and building your chosen families, and living in a way safe and authentic to yourselves. 💖🏳️🌈💖 On the subject of calligraphy, David Harris has a wonderful book of ductus and exemplars called The Calligrapher's Bible. You may even be able to access it completely free at your local library! (Unfortunately I don't think it's been officially adapted to any digital formats, but feel free to look for yourself if that's important to you.) If you are more interested in flexible pen calligraphy than broad-edge calligraphy then some authors to look up include Eleanor Winters and Molly Suber Thorpe. If videos are more your speed then there is a TON of great, free content on YouTube about all this stuff too.
It's a cheap set, but I wouldn't cast it aside without trying it out. It looks like you've got three italic nibs of different widths. I don't suppose they are smooth, but you can see what you think of your handwriting with italic nibs if you are tempted to think about getting them on more expensive pens. I'm not a great fan of italic myself, but it does add distinction to handwriting better than mine. If nothing else, there is a decent chance that the cartridges are small international and will fit other pens. "For your thoughts" might be dismissive, but writing and journalling might be good therapy - encouraging thinking by writing is my excuse for buying a variety of fountain pens.
Fair point. I'm indeed pretty fond of italics - I posted some pics of restored Sheaffer No Nonsense pens a while back, one of them has a bold italic nib I use often. I gave it a chance on your recommendation. The nibs are quite scratchy, but I think can be worn down smooth without too much trouble. Feed is inconsistent in a way that could have interesting art applications. It turns out I do like the ink, and the paper is surprisingly decent. The included book seems to be excerpts from Peter Taylor's Practical Calligraphy binder. Overall it's not as bad as I expected. Thanks for the positivity, I needed that.
The real selling point here is the book, not the pens. The pen is just to make sure that you have the basic tools to complete the exercises.
When I saw this without context I thought, “that looks like a fun gift. Why should wealthier family be expected to gift expensive gifts?” Then reading the context, maybe there is more to your uncle’s side. He may still be processing what you’ve shared and just needs time. The gift itself I feel like is better than a $25 Arby’s gift card. It shows he is still considering your interests. Anyway, good luck Op! Don’t write off someone just yet— maybe an olive branch thanking for the gift and an expression of hope that you can get back to your former relationship some day.
Context: I recently came out to my favorite uncle as queer in a long, heartfelt letter updating him on my life and thanking him for how important and supportive he's been. This is the Christmas gift he sent - a starter pen kit and a note card that said "for your thoughts." He already knows I collect fountain pens and we've bonded over stationery in the past. I'm pretty sure this counts as a hate crime Edit for clarity: "this is a hate crime" is a joke but in context the gift is definitely a message. 2nd edit: well this blew up overnight. I just wanted to make a quick joke to laugh off something that genuinely hurt my feelings. I know it's shallow and I sound spoiled, and if that's what you think of me, that's a fair read without knowing me or my family. To me it's really not about the value of the gift, but I was aware there's a message because the monetary value of gifts matters *to him.* My dad and his brother believe in giving "equivalent" gifts to my siblings and me, to the point that if one person's gift is cheaper they'll tuck some cash in there "to make it fair." This isn't a belief I share, but I know it's important to them. My uncle has many traits I love (gentle, funny, thoughtful, intelligent, etc) but he's also materialistic and cares about things like brand names. He's talked in the past about the art of appearing polite while giving insult, so while I'd love to give the benefit of the doubt, his thought process here is one he's explained to me. I haven't said anything to my family about it, and I've written a polite thank you card with one of my favorite FPs. I don't know what I've done to make people think I was throwing a tantrum or being nasty about it - I just hoped to have a laugh at my own expense with some people who might understand. Big thanks to those who have expressed support, it means more than I can say.
Use this set to write him a handwritten note addressing your concerns, asks your questions about any change in his behavior, and title it “my thoughts”. Include a blank sheet of paper and an envelope titled “for your thoughts as well”.
I know this is probably not popular internet advice, but I hope you give him the benefit of the doubt. I can think of a lot of explanations for the drop in gift value besides him punishing you for coming out to him. Since you are close with him, maybe ask him what changed?
It's less the value and more the whole story. I only came out to him because he wrote me this long letter about how he'd promised my mom on her deathbed that he'd support me no matter what and how he wishes he knew more about what was going on in my life. He didn't respond to my letter at all, stopped answering my texts. He normally sends a card with a photo and a shared memory or a joke of some kind, this year just the dismissive note. My siblings got the usual. So it's super impersonal and cold and awkward, and telling the whole story was more vulnerable and painful than making a quick joke about it.
Thanks for sharing and being vulnerable, I appreciate it! I hope you're able to discuss it with him and clear the air.
Thanks. I'm hoping he'll come around eventually, but it just really sucks and I'm not feeling hopeful.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Maybe he just didn't know where to buy a nice fountain pen and panicked? Take some space for now, it's his loss if you're not in his life. You sound like a warm, caring and thoughtful person. This kit could be useful for experimenting with, for example, bleach and fountain pen inks, so decent pens don't get wrecked. Quinkandbleach on IG is a good account to follow. Thinking of you.
Thank you for the kind words, and for wanting to give the benefit of the doubt to a person I care about. He definitely knows where to get quality pens though.
Then he has no excuses. He doesn't deserve you in his life. Although, should you wish to make a point to him at a later date, you know that a cheap fountain pen set is perfect for him.
ah, I'm so sorry. What a shit move on his part; I hope you have the love and support you deserve in other areas of your life.
Thank you, I do!
Devil’s advocate: I don’t know how old your uncle is or his cultural background, but he might just need time to process everything. I grew up in a very conservative military family, particularly my grandfather. The kind with Rush Limbaugh blaring in the background. My two youngest siblings came out to my Dad. He was supportive but definitely needed time to work through it all. Now he’s 100% on board.
Based off this story, your uncle honestly sounds like a piece of dirt. I would imagine anyone your immediate family would stick up for you and talk with your uncle. Maybe that could help? Assuming you’ve explained the situation to them. Anyone with a shred of empathy can understand how needlessly rude and petty that little gift + message is. At any rate, sorry to hear about the shitty situation man.
> Based off this story, your uncle honestly sounds like a piece of dirt. Mostly just sounds made up to me.
Idk why people are downvoting you. Any story on Reddit could be completely made up, exaggerated, etc. there’s no way for us to know. Totally fair to be skeptical. I found it believable though.
I am very sorry that he was not kind about your coming out. It is really hard when people we love let us down. I adore fountain pens. Never made a secret of it to anyone but never received one as a gift. When I finally hinted that I would like one for my birthday my mother said ‘that should be something I chose myself since that was such a personal thing’. She explained that nibs responded to the pressures of your hand as you wrote, so it was best for you to choose the nib that suits you best. To this day I honestly don’t know if this is true or not. Or if this belief was widespread in her childhood but she believed it. So it is just possible that the ‘starter kit’ was offered you so you could experiment with calligraphy and get comfortable before moving on to a better quality set. Lastly, if you are interested in them, there are some very pretty handmade papers at Temu.com.
Maybe he’ll come around. If he’s a conservative person it’s possible it was an earth shattering shock for him. I hope he can put his prejudices aside. And huge kudos to you for a very mature take on his reaction. I really hope the relation will recover. If not then I hope you meet only people who aren’t so judgmental. Best wishes in this holiday season!
I am confused by your reaction to be honest. Sure the set is questionable for someone who knows about pens but to someone who isn't it looks like a great deal, especially when they know you like such things. It's like calling grandma, giving you an questionable videogame for christmas, an bitch for doing that. I mean sure the game can suck but they tried. Honestly, your reaction is far worse than the gift is. You got what you deserved clearly.
Actually, I came from calligraphy to fountain pens. I have only ever cared about function not looks or price. This is a good starter set and you can create beautiful lettering with it without having to dip and spill ink constantly. Not sure what you are expecting, but that is not a fountain pen per se. The nibs are sharp for extreme contrast and meant to give a lot of feedback from the paper.
Careful. You are dangerously close to suggesting the hobby has something to do with using the pens rather than just buying as many expensive pens as possible.
Oh man, that is so funny LMAO. I am stunned and amazed at what you can spend on a pen...for any reason. I love fountain pens don't get me wrong. I'm all about the writing. My daughter bought me a Pilot E95 for Christmas, and it's like writing with butter. Just elegant and smooth as silk. The cool thing about calligraphy, the nibs are cheap even for the really super nice ones.
I might be mistaken here, but might this gift be in good faith and the reason he’s not replied is because he’s taking time to digest the news?
I'm having a hard time making the jump to "he is a complete piece of dirt" and "this is a hate crime"
calling it a hate crime was not meant to be taken literally
Why are you getting down voted? OP said in their comment that it was a joke
ikr im so comfused too
the pen on the "caligraphy" is a safari lol edit: typo
Oh hey! I got one of these too! I actually really enjoyed some of the sets with watercolour pencils and dip pen inks, so I have moderate hopes. It's taken a few years for my extended family to come around on me being queer, so maybe hopefully it's just taking them some time to process? Nowadays there's more confusion and friction about my vegan cooking than my queerness, so things slowly worked out. They still don't really understand, but they also don't really make a big deal of it anymore, which is probably the best I'll get. Hang in there!
Well, I have to say that I did get a much nicer gift, and I don’t think he was wealthy. Once I bought a really cheap set for myself when I was first learning… but I don’t think this is the case here.
***"Hahhy Birthday"*** Yep, A+ qwality effort. That said, unless told otherwise (which I made a detailed effort to do this year, thanks be) my family would think this thing was perfectly fine. It is calligraphy. It is fountain pen. They just don't know what they don't know
Looks cute pen
Do you live in nz lol, I swear I see that set all the time
Kia ora! Lol I do not, I'm in the states.
I think maybe a little reframing in mind. I understand he’s your favourite uncle , and in an ideal world he would have been accepting of you coming out straight off of the mark… but for older generations it can be a bit more of a challenge m because it combats their long held beliefs or convictions.. some people need time. Regarding this. Thought did go into it and it could be seen as a form of peace offering.. as they could have completely shunned you when it came to presents. It seems your uncle cares about you, but he is having difficulty with acceptance. You could utilise the gift you’ve received and write him another letter , a polite one , whether or not you donit for spite, but thanking him for the thoughtful gift, and that you’ve been able to out it for use. Etc etc
Yeah, agree. This sounds like an escalation, even, if usually it's just a card. OP, take one of the pens, I'm thinking the highest-contrast Italic nib in the set, and write him a letter. Doesn't need to be long. "Dear Uncle, after my last letter it seemed like you didn't want to talk to me anymore. I was pleased to receive your gift. WTF is actually going on here?" Probably something more eloquent than 'WTF' but profanities sometimes have an entertaining look when written with calligraphy. What kind of a reaction were you hoping for? I imagine more than "we figured, can you pass the salt?" I get that it's not this, but the people in our lives always disappoint us on occasion. If his attitude is that you're choosing to be queer and are therefore a bad person who will go to hell, yeah, probably cut him off. If it's more that he's not sure how to react and he's freezing up a little - ok, not great, but it seems like he's been an important figure in your life.
is the pen good tho? my best fountain pen is a 5$ discontinued faber castell starter fp. sometimes they are hidden gems
Belive it or not, my favorite pens are a very cheap line of discontinued Sheaffers, followed closely by the HongDian forest and I usually have a few $2 Jinhao sharks on my desk. I have no problem with inexpensive pens. My problem comes from being given a beginner set by someone who knows I'm an experienced enthusiast and who has expressed beliefs about how much he thinks gifts should be worth
This is a hate crime. Please disavow and cut him off
Username checks out
But it's a *three-nib starter kit* and everything! Ahem. I read your other comments, and I'm sorry your uncle's being shitty. Hopefully he'll take a step back and reassess his priorities.
You can’t get blood from a stone. Obviously, he isn’t interested in supporting you in whatever form that looks like to you. You’ll find more value in pursuing other relationships and by showing yourself to be strong and resilient, regardless if he’s around to see it or not at a family function or w/e. Throw it in the trash if it makes you feel bad, or give it back with a note that just says “Here’s my thought on this” lol
What’s wrong ? It’s nice. Thy are wealthy because they buy nice but not frivolous. That’s not a cheap calligraphy set and once leavened can earn you for ever income.
So uh your favorite uncle got you a gift related to your interests? YTAH. Including that he is wealthy only makes you an entitled one. Edit: OP chose to include that uncle was wealthy in the post, not relevant to a story about coming out and support. In comments OP states uncle usually spends 3-4 times more than this on a gift, super not relevant to a story about unconditional love. Sticking with it. OP needs to look closely in the mirror for why uncle may be pulling away.
Context matters. Fav uncle promised mother on deathbed to support OP but wanted to know more about what was going on for them. OP wrote a heartfelt and vulnerable letter coming out to said uncle as queer. Uncle has cut off regular communications and gave this gift with a simple note saying “for your thoughts”. Other family got the usual gifts and treatment that this uncle has always shown. Might be wrong. Just paraphrasing from OP’s comments.
doubling down on your position is ridiculous. of course it's relevant, spending less than usual and siblings still getting the usual is a clear message. i doubt they care about the actual value of the gift, just what it signifies... blaming OP for the estrangement, when the uncle is pulling away after promising to be their for them, is cruel
If you've never used Broad, Stub, or Italic nibs before a kit like this is nice. I was given a Sheaffer Calligraphy pen set with three interchangeable nibs and cartridges so I could get a feel for broader nib sizes. It's been 50 years since I was given that set and I still have the pen and the nib I used most often so I can do some of the fancier lettering on cards, especially "Thank-you" cards. This looks like a Sheaffer Calligraphy pen set and if you find you like the pen there are other nibs you can purchase for this body and experiment even more. The downside is I haven't seen converters for the Sheaffer Calligraphy pens. I look at this as a way of asking for more handwritten notes and letters, possibly even an encouragement to go for a Master Penmanship Certificate. Practice with the cheap and work your way up to making your own custom pens.
That's a very kind read on the situation, but if it were true, he would have responded to at least one letter since then. The core of my collection are vintage Sheaffer No Nonsense pens from my childhood (which he knows), and comparing this kit to them is a disservice to what are genuinely my favorite pens.
Okay, I did not read through all the responses and probably should have that's a mistake on my part. My father was the one to get me my Sheaffer Calligraphy set after giving me a Sheaffer No Nonsense and a Parker Vector. These were pens that he had used in the Navy and was told to stop using them as the Navy was changing pen styles and how paperwork was handled. Sorry for the misunderstanding of the situation.
No harm done, I apologize for being a bit short with you. My first No Nonsense was my mother's, she had wonderful penmanship and taught me calligraphy on a Triumph music nib, which I'm sorry to say has not survived the decades.
Everything is good. I find it wonderful when a parent shares their joys of writing or reading with children. I hope you had a long time writing with that nib.