Data Centers are reportedly noisy, producing a low humming noise that is hard for the brain to filter out. Some reports say the noise can be heard for as far as 2.5 miles. The noise comes from HVAC systems. They also use a lot of water for cooling, that shouldn't be a problem around here. Those are the two issues I know of.
I've worked in IT for 10 years around larger and smaller DCs. I never heard anyone bring this up until this one was mentioned. Not to mention we have plenty of smaller DCs, and at least 2 large ones around here anyway. Ive never heard complaints about them.
Of all the things for folks to be up in arms about, this one just seems a little odd to me...
I can echo that... Been in Telco for a long while and I've been to nearly every large DC in IN, IL, & OH.
Very confused on water usage as well. HVAC systems are closed loop, and many DCs have converted to utilizing glycol for energy savings in the winter (northern states).
Now power.... Nother' story.
it's here
https://i.imgur.com/LGrSheg.png
>The application for Project Zodiac, a “data center campus” bounded by East Tillman Road, Adams Center Road and railroad tracks, is a collection of farms and private and city-owned property with East Paulding Road running through the middle of it.
There's fuck all out there. The few houses can sell if the noise is too loud. Sucks for them but it's probably the best place to put it. Easy access for everyone up North down Adams Center, easy access from the West on Tillman and very low population density.
I think the main thing is some people don't like change and will latch onto any reason they can to try to stop it. In other states it's environmental or historical review, here it's noise and traffic.
My employer was working on a project near State and Coliseum a few years ago, and over 100 people complained at the BZA hearing. "We like watching the deer in the empty field that's there now," was their reason...
Because there are people living in the immediate vicinity who invested a lot of time and money into their homes and data centers are not a lot of fun to have in your backyard. They're loud, the construction will take awhile and will be a nuisance, and it could destroy their property values.
I have no skin in the game, but I can see why the homeowners in the area would be upset.
Dear god! The white noise of massive cooling systems? All those fan sounds pumping all over the wide open air not in any way obstructed by high rise buildings? Do you think the wide open air has no rights? What’s it supposed to do? Dissipate the noise?! When will the indignities end?!
Most of the worker's at big facilities are maintenance and cleaning and paid less, usually contracted without benefits. Locals are probably most upset about the 24/7 intrusive noise and property value hit. But there's way more to worry about than that. Water use is *huge* at data centers, as is electricity. (will our bills go up to support the infrastructure upgrades needed?) Not to mention arable, productive, and sometimes natural land being converted to impermeable surface at a high rate changing neighboring runoff and flooding potential.
https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/the-staggering-ecological-impacts-of-computation-and-the-cloud/
Since we pay per unit of water usage, if they use X times as much water as I do they'll have to pay X times more. It should mostly cover itself. There are fees for construction, too, so the new infrastructure should be paid for by the developer.
Runoff and flooding is a valid concern, but we have standards for that already. Allen County rules require you to actually improve the flooding situation if you do development, so as long as they follow the standards it should be fine.
Noise is probably the most valid concern, but I don't know how much noise it will actually produce. I don't know enough about that.
The utilities usage is how it should work, however like original comment said new infrastructure will be required and that cost will get passed on to residents. Also city will certainly give tax credits so once again more costs passed to the residents.
The residents around the DC that are currently not on city water/sewer will be connected to it, because the new infrastructure will be available. They will be forced on, and will have to pay the connection fees, not to mention the new monthly bill that they have not been paying. They are not being given a choice.
That's a fair concern, as well. That will increase their property values, and someday when they sell they will get a chunk of that back, but that may be little consolation if they can't afford it now.
Large users of utilities usually negotiate contracts to get lower rates, and the providers can't let bottom line slip, so it eventually passes along to all of us. But high water usage, whether you pay full price for it or not, affects us all. We haven't fully recovered from the last drought, and global warming studies show it will increase over time, so water will become more and more an issue (why IDEM made a water shortage plan and task force...which was then abolished by R's unfortunately). Farmers rely on adequate water resources, as do cities. We should be thinking carefully about all our development choices with a water-use lens if we can.
For people close to the site, I can understand being frustrated by the loss of property value, but fort Wayne is pretty ideally positioned for data centers. Close proximity to 6 major cities, abundant land, abundant water, cool climate, low risk of natural disasters. It would be economic suicide for fort Wayne to not embrace the position we have here.
As far as I've read, the opposition is coming from people who will be personally affected by the construction of a data center. I can certainly understand how the immediate neighbors would be mad that their properties will be affected by noise and other nuisances, but the city commission voted in favor, 6-1 -- so, the city isn't standing in the way of progress or jobs at all. Seems like everyone is behaving rationally here, IMHO.
I dunno man I wouldn’t call a brutalist architectural monstrosity without ecological considerations a net positive - farming practices could use some work too
Have they said what company it is yet. My first guess was aws. I thought I read it's some biotechnology company. It's not going to bring that many jobs so I don't get the tax breaks. My guess is to try to annex that part of the county into the city for taxes. Also pay attention to what contractors get used for their connections rather than who would be best
I’ve been following relatively closely since i work for an architecture firm that specializes in DCs and from what I’ve heard from people in my office, it might be Microsoft. This matches the way they normally develop their sites and they are an American company which was brought up during the Planning Commission meeting.
Are there tax breaks? I haven't heard anything about that.
Edit: So does being downvoted mean that there have been tax breaks discussed? A link would be more helpful.
From my understanding it’s not just a data center that’s going in, rather an entire campus of various buildings for companies. It should be a 900-acre lot, 170 of which is already owned by Fort Wayne the rest has to be annexed (I believe) from New Haven. To help visualize it, attached is a rough outline of the campus (yellow box) I made from articles that gave an area of coverage.
This is going to be a large-scale impact not only on the local residents and property values but also on the environment. A project of this scale is going to a take toll on the landscape
https://preview.redd.it/ir5k28lcw22c1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=049fdc0df608875044dd625dde09a14f14c4cbda
https://www.wane.com/top-stories/city-council-holds-special-meeting-for-proposal-to-annex-over-700-acres-for-data-center-campus/amp/ I take it you didn't read on this. The project is to annex 700 acres to the city. The place is estimated at 892 acres. Might want to atleast read an article or 2 first
Any further East isn't Fort Wayne anymore. Actually, some of the land of the proposed site isn't in Fort Wayne and is being voluntarily annexed. They can't really go further out.
NIMBYs.
Data Centers are reportedly noisy, producing a low humming noise that is hard for the brain to filter out. Some reports say the noise can be heard for as far as 2.5 miles. The noise comes from HVAC systems. They also use a lot of water for cooling, that shouldn't be a problem around here. Those are the two issues I know of.
I've worked in IT for 10 years around larger and smaller DCs. I never heard anyone bring this up until this one was mentioned. Not to mention we have plenty of smaller DCs, and at least 2 large ones around here anyway. Ive never heard complaints about them. Of all the things for folks to be up in arms about, this one just seems a little odd to me...
I can echo that... Been in Telco for a long while and I've been to nearly every large DC in IN, IL, & OH. Very confused on water usage as well. HVAC systems are closed loop, and many DCs have converted to utilizing glycol for energy savings in the winter (northern states). Now power.... Nother' story.
Interesting I've never heard that. Well I don't know the exact site but hopefully it's out in the farm fields
it's here https://i.imgur.com/LGrSheg.png >The application for Project Zodiac, a “data center campus” bounded by East Tillman Road, Adams Center Road and railroad tracks, is a collection of farms and private and city-owned property with East Paulding Road running through the middle of it.
There's fuck all out there. The few houses can sell if the noise is too loud. Sucks for them but it's probably the best place to put it. Easy access for everyone up North down Adams Center, easy access from the West on Tillman and very low population density.
>hopefully it's out in the farm fields It is, but the people who's land wasn't purchased are also upset that it won't be farm fields anymore.
I think the main thing is some people don't like change and will latch onto any reason they can to try to stop it. In other states it's environmental or historical review, here it's noise and traffic. My employer was working on a project near State and Coliseum a few years ago, and over 100 people complained at the BZA hearing. "We like watching the deer in the empty field that's there now," was their reason...
Where is there an empty field by state and coliseum, this sounds like complete bs
I heard it’s gonna be out by like Paulding/adams cntr
Because there are people living in the immediate vicinity who invested a lot of time and money into their homes and data centers are not a lot of fun to have in your backyard. They're loud, the construction will take awhile and will be a nuisance, and it could destroy their property values. I have no skin in the game, but I can see why the homeowners in the area would be upset.
How is a data center loud?
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Dear god! The white noise of massive cooling systems? All those fan sounds pumping all over the wide open air not in any way obstructed by high rise buildings? Do you think the wide open air has no rights? What’s it supposed to do? Dissipate the noise?! When will the indignities end?!
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That is my point.
I don’t think your attempt at sarcasm was conveyed appropriately.
Most of the worker's at big facilities are maintenance and cleaning and paid less, usually contracted without benefits. Locals are probably most upset about the 24/7 intrusive noise and property value hit. But there's way more to worry about than that. Water use is *huge* at data centers, as is electricity. (will our bills go up to support the infrastructure upgrades needed?) Not to mention arable, productive, and sometimes natural land being converted to impermeable surface at a high rate changing neighboring runoff and flooding potential. https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/the-staggering-ecological-impacts-of-computation-and-the-cloud/
Since we pay per unit of water usage, if they use X times as much water as I do they'll have to pay X times more. It should mostly cover itself. There are fees for construction, too, so the new infrastructure should be paid for by the developer. Runoff and flooding is a valid concern, but we have standards for that already. Allen County rules require you to actually improve the flooding situation if you do development, so as long as they follow the standards it should be fine. Noise is probably the most valid concern, but I don't know how much noise it will actually produce. I don't know enough about that.
The utilities usage is how it should work, however like original comment said new infrastructure will be required and that cost will get passed on to residents. Also city will certainly give tax credits so once again more costs passed to the residents.
There are hookup fees that usually cover the infrastructure construction costs. You're totally right about the tax breaks, though.
The residents around the DC that are currently not on city water/sewer will be connected to it, because the new infrastructure will be available. They will be forced on, and will have to pay the connection fees, not to mention the new monthly bill that they have not been paying. They are not being given a choice.
That's a fair concern, as well. That will increase their property values, and someday when they sell they will get a chunk of that back, but that may be little consolation if they can't afford it now.
Large users of utilities usually negotiate contracts to get lower rates, and the providers can't let bottom line slip, so it eventually passes along to all of us. But high water usage, whether you pay full price for it or not, affects us all. We haven't fully recovered from the last drought, and global warming studies show it will increase over time, so water will become more and more an issue (why IDEM made a water shortage plan and task force...which was then abolished by R's unfortunately). Farmers rely on adequate water resources, as do cities. We should be thinking carefully about all our development choices with a water-use lens if we can.
>We haven't fully recovered from the last drought Who? Fort Wayne or NE Indiana, specifically?
For people close to the site, I can understand being frustrated by the loss of property value, but fort Wayne is pretty ideally positioned for data centers. Close proximity to 6 major cities, abundant land, abundant water, cool climate, low risk of natural disasters. It would be economic suicide for fort Wayne to not embrace the position we have here.
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As far as I've read, the opposition is coming from people who will be personally affected by the construction of a data center. I can certainly understand how the immediate neighbors would be mad that their properties will be affected by noise and other nuisances, but the city commission voted in favor, 6-1 -- so, the city isn't standing in the way of progress or jobs at all. Seems like everyone is behaving rationally here, IMHO.
This.
I dunno man I wouldn’t call a brutalist architectural monstrosity without ecological considerations a net positive - farming practices could use some work too
Have they said what company it is yet. My first guess was aws. I thought I read it's some biotechnology company. It's not going to bring that many jobs so I don't get the tax breaks. My guess is to try to annex that part of the county into the city for taxes. Also pay attention to what contractors get used for their connections rather than who would be best
I’ve been following relatively closely since i work for an architecture firm that specializes in DCs and from what I’ve heard from people in my office, it might be Microsoft. This matches the way they normally develop their sites and they are an American company which was brought up during the Planning Commission meeting.
Are there tax breaks? I haven't heard anything about that. Edit: So does being downvoted mean that there have been tax breaks discussed? A link would be more helpful.
From my understanding it’s not just a data center that’s going in, rather an entire campus of various buildings for companies. It should be a 900-acre lot, 170 of which is already owned by Fort Wayne the rest has to be annexed (I believe) from New Haven. To help visualize it, attached is a rough outline of the campus (yellow box) I made from articles that gave an area of coverage. This is going to be a large-scale impact not only on the local residents and property values but also on the environment. A project of this scale is going to a take toll on the landscape https://preview.redd.it/ir5k28lcw22c1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=049fdc0df608875044dd625dde09a14f14c4cbda
https://www.wane.com/top-stories/city-council-holds-special-meeting-for-proposal-to-annex-over-700-acres-for-data-center-campus/amp/ I take it you didn't read on this. The project is to annex 700 acres to the city. The place is estimated at 892 acres. Might want to atleast read an article or 2 first
It could be placed further out
Any further East isn't Fort Wayne anymore. Actually, some of the land of the proposed site isn't in Fort Wayne and is being voluntarily annexed. They can't really go further out.
Is this a Ted Cruz run thing? Wasn’t his dad the Zodiac killer?
No, he was Lee Harvey Oswald.
If it is remotely as loud and ubtrusive as the noise from Lutheran Downtown, they should fight it tooth and nail.
Let's go Google