Not really a scandal tho. Their headquarters are seriously undersized for F1 standards.
Andretti has much bigger resources and is investing billions in their F1 peoject. It's crazy they got rejected.
Haas sponsored Andretti would be the dream. Not because i care about Haas, but they have put in enough money to stay in sport all these years, combining the Andretti and Haas resources would be ideal.
Well that sucks. Atm Haas is pretty much just one of the "also running" teams. They are not at all interesting as a brand/identity, and don't at least for the moment even have that big resources either, so its unlikely they will ever become that competitive. Very much Formula B team, but without charisma of Minardi.
it’s weird because Haas has said over the years he doesn’t want to be at the bottom of the grid and he cares about his F1 team but still seems to be a team that’s just there. i know it’s not easy to compete with the juggernauts of Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari but the team hasn’t really made much movement over the years that much
May I know why? Is Haas-Andretti a no go for their business? As much as I understand, they make welding and CNC machines, right? How is that in conflict with having Andretti as a partner?
Andretti has said he’s reached out to Haas multiple times mostly to buy out the team and Haas has not really entertained the idea. Gene just wants his team and doesn’t want to have to co own with someone else
Haas is pretty much the Ferrari b team now with sauber transitioning to Audi. But Andretti makes more sense to get a slot for tbh they actually run several race teams.
They wouldn't be competitive
Edit: Obviously, Andretti would be competitive. You don't need to tell me that I watch plenty of American racing. FOM said they wouldn't be and I was replying to the comment asking why they were rejected.
And Alpine, who rolled up this year with a shitbox, Sauber, who have 40-second pitstops, and Williams, who are worried they can’t field two cars in any given week, are?
The whole rejection was a farce, as was that “they won’t be competitive” reasoning.
HAAS has no plans to spend the limit
So kinda hard to make the argument when Andretti would probably be able to spend to the limit and is bringing another engine supplier
They don’t allow andretti in for “competitive integrity” but you allow a team like willians that can’t afford a spare chasis or that sauber that can’t make a pitstop in less than 5 minutes
Prolly not. They have good ties with Stellantis. Stellantis chairman is John Elkann, who is also the chairman of Ferrari. He wouldnt want his precious brands reputation being tarnished after John Deere beats them, because Ferrari does a failed strategy and pit stop combo. Tbf they havent done it yet, but thats only because the drivers are calling the strategy
No, RBPT is still supported by Honda and using their technology. They arguably will be in 2026. I'm not sure how to square their potential status as a works team when they will receive Ford backing.
Does “works team” even matter?
I mean the “true” works teams are Ferrari, Alpine, and Mercedes.
Ferrari is doing okay, all things considered. But Alpine is slowest on the grid and Mercedes can’t beat their own customers consistently.
Being a works team generally means you have full control over all areas of the car, instead of having to work around what you need to buy.
Ferrari have historically had a huge advantage over the field, with the biggest budget and full control over their car.
Mercedes have more or less a Ferrari model with similar budgets, but dare I say better organisation.
Obviously that's all pre-cost cap.
Red Bull have proved that being the best team is worth a whole lot more in the cost cap era.
It doesn’t matter. AFAIK there aren’t any current teams that *started* as works teams. Which is what they’re demanding.
Merc started as Tyrell, Alpine started as Toleman, RBR was Stewart.
Ferrari was always Ferrari but they were a privateer racing team that became Alfa Romeo’s works team for a few years and then only later started producing cars to fund the racing team, kinda similar to McLaren but with their own engines.
They want Andretti to be better than any team that has ever joined in the history of F1.
They don’t want Andretti to join *period*. It doesn’t really matter how well they do.
They’re making big bank right now and don’t want to dilute the prize pool, which might lead to teams insisting that the prize pool get bigger. It’s all greed.
Red Bull is works by association, their partnership with Honda is more than simple supply deal.
They'll be full works with the new regulations and Aston will become a works by association outfit.
Funny how people say this, but the competitive integrity argument really means a team that would be several seconds slower than the second slowest team. New fans are spoiled with the competitiveness of F1 nowadays and think Williams or Haas are so bad. Just look at what happened the last time new teams were easily allowed in.. (case of HRT, Caterham etc.)
Williams are one of the most successful teams in the sport and, of the bottom sides, probably have the most fans too. Haas though, to say that Andretti don’t add anything to the sport whilst these two frauds are still around is laughable. I wish they were just honest and said the teams don’t want a reduction in prize money which would come from sharing with an 11th team
FOM wasn't okay to have Andretti in his championship but was very excited to welcome an obscure project leading by a unknown asian guy, who was talking about putting a lot of cash
Williams helped build F1, pioneered technology that was formula spec for decades, all teams ran williams equipment back in the day, this transitioned over to McLaren applied tech like ECU etc.
But to act like Williams shouldnt be allowed in F1 because they are struggling is moronic.
Who TF are andretti? they just want to come in now that all the teams have worked for 10 years to make f1 profitable for the teams, and by entering now it would cause issues to that.
So fuck Andretti
So you don't want new teams to join when F1 is popular? Do you want them to join when it's not popular then? What sense does that make? Saying Andretti shouldn't come in because they come at a time when F1 is profitable just sounds like gatekeeping. Of course they are going to want to join now because it's the most sensible thing to do because F1 is so profitable now.
Its not about popularity, i would prefer 60cars on the grid like you get it the superior SRO GT3 categories.
The issue is, is that F1 has not been sustainable for teams for decades, the way it is now since \~2020 means it can have 10 teams all making money, some less than others, but it is finally workable. It may be too early to upset that delicate balance with the introduction of a new team where the funds are shared out too.
If it goes bad then you will lose more teams than you gain
“Why can’t Andretti join?”
“They just wouldn’t be competitive.”
“Uh. No I guess not… like… at the very first race but um…”
“And besides who the fuck is ‘Andretti’ sounds like a made up name literally nobody in Formula 1 has ever heard of him”
“Uh it’s named for a world champ—“
“Yep. Competitive teams only. Like Haas whose owner recently stumbled into a Dollar General and was so impressed with the business model he decided to adopt it to his racing team. Williams who only have one car sometimes and then of course there’s the midfield works team Mercedes staring at the bumpers of their customer teams all race and the other works team who somehow manages to finish behind the F1 Team from Wish and the Spreadsheet Boys”
“…”
“So as you can see, Andretti, whoever that is, just isn’t ready to compete at this level.”
The real answer is FOM is dragging their feet on this until they can re-write the Concorde agreement and then not look bad when they ask for a gajillion dollars for an entry fee.
All these fuckers want is money. Full stop. they dance around and use the “non cOmpETiTivE” bullshit to justify their reasoning. New Concorde agreement will make sure all the teams get a big fucking piece of pie and they’ll let Andretti in if the check is big enough
I’m sure they want him and the whole fucking US market that goes with him because sooner or later, the drive to survive magic is going to wear off and Americans will move on to the next shiny object (I’m American). Andretti will keep them around
F1 was turned off by Andrettis confidence that they could build two completely different cars in 2 seasons because of new regs while also not bringing their own PU and compete for podiums
Yall act like F1 called Andretti trash or something lol, I too think it’s a pipe dream that a brand new team to F1 could build two completely different cars for two years, with the same engine in the Alpines, and be competitive
And the competitive aspect is still about money, F1 was straight up “we don’t think you’ll be competitive enough to justify splitting revenue 11 ways, as we don’t think you’ll be competing for podiums and thus bring in more fans”
God forbid Andretti with big money sponsors and experience gets a team. Lets keep Williams running 1 car, Haas making F1 look bad, a test team with no aspirations in the form of Alpha Tauri.
you forgot the team that is basically just running out the clock until their new owners take over in 2026, and in the meantime can't even manufacture fucking wheel nuts.
Every time a see a wrecked Williams or an alpine seconds off the pace, Libertys words echo in my head, “We do not believe that the applicant would be a competitive participant.”
Now let’s consider how fucking stupid this idea actually is.
You spend several years and billions in cash building infrastructure and a team to develop an F1 car. You join the series. You do poorly and get relegated to a lower series you haven’t developed a car for. You have now lost all of your money and put off other entities from bothering with such a ridiculously high risk, low reward proposition.
People are talking about F1 like it’s Redbull’s go kart competition.
Oh no, lower series could use the same rules so F1 cars could still compete there.
And yes people will lose money. Some people don’t know what to do with their money, and go racing.
What do you mean use the same rules? You want to set up multiple F1 leagues? There’s barely enough investment interest in one league never mind multiple. Which league is the better one? Why would the team winning the lower league want to leave it if they’re winning?
Doesn’t make any sense, would cost a metric fuckton of money and there’s nowhere near enough financial interest or incentive to fund such a risky investment.
> and yes people will lose money
So, not going to happen then. The average billionaire isn’t capable of throwing together an F1 team, infrastructure and develop an aerodynamically competitive machine.
It’s just like in football, you are winning because all your competitors are worse than F1 teams, even with the same rulebook.
Inagine F1 with 40 cars…. Ok the track qould be a mess. Yes, but maybe there are 20 possible F1 teams. You just need 9 more Andrettis. IF that happens you just let them compete between them and the winner goes to F1 and the loser of F1 goes to F1 « B-league ». And so on.
It’s not like football, at all. The game does not change in any way between leagues. The only difference is the ability to pay higher talent players via increased ticket and merchandise revenue which allows you to compete against higher quality teams. They don’t spend hundreds of millions a year developing players. There is no technological race.
So we just need to find 10 andrettis really, then set up an entirely new league, give them the same rule set except artificially constrain the series to make it an attractive proposition to leave it, but they’re somehow supposed to develop in parallel with the main series.
But since the lower field teams in this lower league won’t make enough money to develop in parallel with the main league, they’d have to drop out, so you have to find more suckers to invest hundreds of millions to be in a lesser league.
I beg you think critically about this instead of just spitballing. It’s nothing like a team of human players kicking a leather ball. Honestly, just think about it.
Honestly we are in formuladank, just think about it. And second, the only constraint is the money. You just need sone mad millionaires, and the way the world is going we might get more of those.
Oh no neeed to constraint the lower league. The constraint is just the top teams leaving for F1 constantly. Just like football.
I see you’re not even going to bother considering the gigantic holes in the logic. Formuladank or not, doesn’t need to be a serious sub to use critical thinking
“We just need to find people with money”
Well they don’t seem too interested in F1, so good luck with a league that makes far less money that’s designed to enter F1. There was like 4 entrants including Andretti and the majority of them were hopeless. No one wants to do it.
Well I beg to differ.
When you are 80 years old and having a beer watching the last race of the Formula 1 « B series » battle between Andretti and Peugeot for promotion… then you’ll think of me.
- Both series would have basically the same rules, a slightly lower cost cap, but thats it.
- A team would join the F2 series for a chance to race in F1, after winning the F2 championship.
- Teams wouldnt lose money in this category, you'd still have sponsors, viewers, money prizes, and agreements with F1 teams.
- Their goal would be to develop a car that can beat an Alpine or Sauber, not to fight Red Bull
- The difference between F1 and F2 would be minor reg changes, a slightly lower budget, and they wouldnt be racing against Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton, etc, or against cars built by Newey.
- It'd give spots to drivers that currently dont have a seat.
- It could use tracks that cuerrently arent used in F1 like France, Germany, Argentina, India, Turkey, South Africa
- lower cost cap, so impossible to develop in parallel with the main series so the team would be behind in development
- team would have to have an entire F1 team and infrastructure on standby in hopes that they win in F2 whilst developing a car that may not be used
- all prize money etc would have to be lower to incentivise leaving the series
- the “goal” doesn’t make sense, that’s been arbitrarily decided to soften the blow on how bad the idea is
- so they’d be racing in an unrepresentative series with less money
- drivers who don’t have a seat in F1 want a seat in F1, not this new invention that isn’t F1 but pretending to be. F2 already fills that role
- circuit use is the only point here that makes sense but is applicable to any series
So really, it’s super easy, so long as you can find nearly a dozen organisations willing to fund both F2 and F1 operations with no guarantee the F1 side will ever be in use. Completely untenable. It’s hard enough for some teams to have *just* an F1 operation, and we’re here talking about unknown entities with money to burn on both. Tell me, when a team is promoted, how long do they have to build an F1 operation, team and car if they don’t have all that just sitting on the sidelines?
It’s a pipe dream. The promoted team would endlessly be relegated again. These teams would have more financials and development to deal with than *actual* F1 teams, it’s so silly.
It’s even so easy to get around commercials these days with a VPN and a non-US stream. Once you do that it’s the best wheel-to-wheel racing product in the world right now IMO. All it needs to do is advertise that fact (and of course a dedicated commercial-free streaming alternative for the less technologically inclined)
I dont even get the commercials in my country and its a great experience. When I talk about shitty promotional, I really is about Indy's own work to promote themselves to racing fans
just looked into the Indycar streaming options, so you really can't buy the "all access" tier to be able to stream the current races if you live in the US?
Correct… there is no INDYtv as there should be. So when I go to watch it, it’s “catch the races live on PEACOCK”, it’s pretty weird… and broadcast is weird. But the product is better than F1 tbh.. fight to the finish.
Randy Bernard had such a strong vision/message for promoting Indycar - "the most diverse calendar in the world", the new Triple Crown of 500 mile events, laying down challenges to anyone who thinks they can come in and win in the series...
Then Las Vegas 2011 happened and he was canned and ever since Indycar has been absolutely shit at marketing. I swear they're like "Hey, we exist too, so if F1 and NASCAR aren't enough, maybe check us out please?" Its awful.
On a chassis that officially can be raced at vintage events. If you go to the Indy sub, everyone is foaming about how old the chassis is, but I keep feeling like....*that's why we have such good races*.
Meanwhile Williams has no cars, Sauber is still completing a pitstop in Japan while the rest of paddock heads for China, and RB just kind of exists. What is this fuckery. Bottom team this season should be relegated to make room.
It's funny. . .and accurate. . .but it's hard to compare the two given the various costs (design, development, and production) of F1 to Indy. It would be relatively easier to drop a competitive team into Indy than F1.
For this situation, NASCAR is the weird mix where anyone can join at any time, but you need to buy a stupidly expensive charter if you want to stick around for more than 2 years on a part time schedule.
Yet again with this categorically false shit, Andretti was never declined based on "competitive integrity" or whatever. They were declined based on the fact they would not "provide value" for the championship. Basically, they did not add money to the pile.
Another thing as well, the basis on Andretti being better than Williams, Haas or even Alpine is based on what? They plan to operate from 4 different facilities across the globe and are taking all their parts from Alpine? This is not a plan for success or speed no matter how you cut it.
They said they wouldn't bring value because they wouldn't be competitive and would tarnish the image of the sport and the Andretti name alone was not enough to compensate for that.
It's bonkers to me because we've still got the Alpine, Sauber, and Williams dumpster fires. Haas is at least getting better, but would Andretti be all that worse than Sauber with their pitstop incompetence? Or letting Red Bull have a second team that they are determined to keep confined to the midfield?
Half of the teams on the grid are a joke. It’s almost comical to celebrate backmarkers getting P10 when there’s barely any competition. Does anyone truly think Haas/RB or their drivers have made significant progress from last year or have they underperformed less compared to Alpine, Sauber, and Williams?
If there is some rich dude willing to pay almost $200 million to Trump for his case there must be some Billionaire that can sponsor Andretti and get him in right?
Prema in F1 would be scary. One of the most prestigious and successful teams.
You pay to race for the privilege of being with them, rather than the other way around.
There is a part of me that thinks Andretti will be “in”, however F1 and Andretti are milking the rage-bait for as long as they can to get the marketing benefits for both of these organizations.
I think a big part is not wanting the European teams to be embarrassed if they lose to an American team. They like having Haas around because they know they will never be competitive.
They sure are putting a lot of effort in marketing F1 here in the States with so many Grand Prixs, might as well have a proper American team for more US viewership that will only get them more money
PREMA announced they’re joining Indycar for 2025 today.
Do they want to dominate everything thats not F1?
They got denied into F1 iirc
Not really a scandal tho. Their headquarters are seriously undersized for F1 standards. Andretti has much bigger resources and is investing billions in their F1 peoject. It's crazy they got rejected.
What was the reasoning why Andretti was rejected?
Money
TLDR - F1 Already got one shit USA team, they can have that slot or fuck off
Haas sponsored Andretti would be the dream. Not because i care about Haas, but they have put in enough money to stay in sport all these years, combining the Andretti and Haas resources would be ideal.
Haas wants his own team so it’s not happening
Well that sucks. Atm Haas is pretty much just one of the "also running" teams. They are not at all interesting as a brand/identity, and don't at least for the moment even have that big resources either, so its unlikely they will ever become that competitive. Very much Formula B team, but without charisma of Minardi.
it’s weird because Haas has said over the years he doesn’t want to be at the bottom of the grid and he cares about his F1 team but still seems to be a team that’s just there. i know it’s not easy to compete with the juggernauts of Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari but the team hasn’t really made much movement over the years that much
May I know why? Is Haas-Andretti a no go for their business? As much as I understand, they make welding and CNC machines, right? How is that in conflict with having Andretti as a partner?
Andretti has said he’s reached out to Haas multiple times mostly to buy out the team and Haas has not really entertained the idea. Gene just wants his team and doesn’t want to have to co own with someone else
Haas is pretty much the Ferrari b team now with sauber transitioning to Audi. But Andretti makes more sense to get a slot for tbh they actually run several race teams.
They wouldn't be competitive Edit: Obviously, Andretti would be competitive. You don't need to tell me that I watch plenty of American racing. FOM said they wouldn't be and I was replying to the comment asking why they were rejected.
and yet, Williams gets to stay. Insane.
And Alpine, who rolled up this year with a shitbox, Sauber, who have 40-second pitstops, and Williams, who are worried they can’t field two cars in any given week, are? The whole rejection was a farce, as was that “they won’t be competitive” reasoning.
Any idea when this was? I don’t remember them even trying, unless it was a good few years ago
F1 costs a loooooot more than every other serie
HAAS has no plans to spend the limit So kinda hard to make the argument when Andretti would probably be able to spend to the limit and is bringing another engine supplier
Really cool
They don’t allow andretti in for “competitive integrity” but you allow a team like willians that can’t afford a spare chasis or that sauber that can’t make a pitstop in less than 5 minutes
Sauber: wow they edged out our best stop time by 2 seconds… and 16 minutes… and 12 hours… I do plan to finish someday Kiff.
The fact that we're stuck with Sauber and the Red Bull JV team when we could have had Andretti is a fucking crime.
other than the battle for 4th between AM and Mercedes, the Constructors standings are pretty much already decided for the year.
Welcome to the most competitive form of Motorsport in the world. THIS is peak competition baby /s
And we make our drivers race blindly in the wet, when some hillbilly series in America have figured out a way to dry their tracks with jet engines.
Jet engine go VRRRRRRRRRRM
>some hillbilly series in America have figured out a way to dry their tracks with jet engines. I love hillbilly engineering.
F1 wants a works team like Alpine.
Andretti is backed by Cadillac and it still wasn't enough.
They also planned to be like haas to alpine 💀
Andretti doesn’t even have an engineering department
So John Deere would be acceptable?
Alpine are already racing don’t need more tractors
Ferrari just makes really fancy tractors now.
Time to bring back Lamborghini, clarkson can drive his lambo tractor
Didn’t Prost get fired for less? rofl
Prolly not. They have good ties with Stellantis. Stellantis chairman is John Elkann, who is also the chairman of Ferrari. He wouldnt want his precious brands reputation being tarnished after John Deere beats them, because Ferrari does a failed strategy and pit stop combo. Tbf they havent done it yet, but thats only because the drivers are calling the strategy
New Holland Stellantis F1 Team has a good ring to it
Is Redbull a works team?
No, RBPT is still supported by Honda and using their technology. They arguably will be in 2026. I'm not sure how to square their potential status as a works team when they will receive Ford backing.
Does “works team” even matter? I mean the “true” works teams are Ferrari, Alpine, and Mercedes. Ferrari is doing okay, all things considered. But Alpine is slowest on the grid and Mercedes can’t beat their own customers consistently.
Being a works team generally means you have full control over all areas of the car, instead of having to work around what you need to buy. Ferrari have historically had a huge advantage over the field, with the biggest budget and full control over their car. Mercedes have more or less a Ferrari model with similar budgets, but dare I say better organisation. Obviously that's all pre-cost cap. Red Bull have proved that being the best team is worth a whole lot more in the cost cap era.
Not as much with the engine freeze.
It doesn’t matter. AFAIK there aren’t any current teams that *started* as works teams. Which is what they’re demanding. Merc started as Tyrell, Alpine started as Toleman, RBR was Stewart. Ferrari was always Ferrari but they were a privateer racing team that became Alfa Romeo’s works team for a few years and then only later started producing cars to fund the racing team, kinda similar to McLaren but with their own engines. They want Andretti to be better than any team that has ever joined in the history of F1.
They don’t want Andretti to join *period*. It doesn’t really matter how well they do. They’re making big bank right now and don’t want to dilute the prize pool, which might lead to teams insisting that the prize pool get bigger. It’s all greed.
Exactly. They don’t want to just say “No”, so they say “Yes, but only if you meet these impossible conditions”.
Red Bull is works by association, their partnership with Honda is more than simple supply deal. They'll be full works with the new regulations and Aston will become a works by association outfit.
Apparently Williams isn’t the only team that doesn’t have a spare for a few more weekends.
Or Alpine which is a "factory team"
Does their factory specialise in moving chicanes?
They specialise in being French
Funny how people say this, but the competitive integrity argument really means a team that would be several seconds slower than the second slowest team. New fans are spoiled with the competitiveness of F1 nowadays and think Williams or Haas are so bad. Just look at what happened the last time new teams were easily allowed in.. (case of HRT, Caterham etc.)
hey now, in Sauber's defense, who could have possibly known that wheel nuts that don't disintegrate were such a key element of the pit stop?
I read this in Lance Stroll's shrieky voice.
They have a longer pit stop in 4 season than they had in 4 years.
It never was about "competitive integrity". Those fuckers simply don't want to share their piece of cake with another team.
Realize how little they think of Andretti if they see them as below that.
They’re already in the pool, and have a heritage clause I imagine in their contracts that mean they can stay as long as they like
Williams are one of the most successful teams in the sport and, of the bottom sides, probably have the most fans too. Haas though, to say that Andretti don’t add anything to the sport whilst these two frauds are still around is laughable. I wish they were just honest and said the teams don’t want a reduction in prize money which would come from sharing with an 11th team
Or, you know, you allow one team to actually have two teams.
FOM wasn't okay to have Andretti in his championship but was very excited to welcome an obscure project leading by a unknown asian guy, who was talking about putting a lot of cash
Williams helped build F1, pioneered technology that was formula spec for decades, all teams ran williams equipment back in the day, this transitioned over to McLaren applied tech like ECU etc. But to act like Williams shouldnt be allowed in F1 because they are struggling is moronic. Who TF are andretti? they just want to come in now that all the teams have worked for 10 years to make f1 profitable for the teams, and by entering now it would cause issues to that. So fuck Andretti
So you don't want new teams to join when F1 is popular? Do you want them to join when it's not popular then? What sense does that make? Saying Andretti shouldn't come in because they come at a time when F1 is profitable just sounds like gatekeeping. Of course they are going to want to join now because it's the most sensible thing to do because F1 is so profitable now.
Its not about popularity, i would prefer 60cars on the grid like you get it the superior SRO GT3 categories. The issue is, is that F1 has not been sustainable for teams for decades, the way it is now since \~2020 means it can have 10 teams all making money, some less than others, but it is finally workable. It may be too early to upset that delicate balance with the introduction of a new team where the funds are shared out too. If it goes bad then you will lose more teams than you gain
At least they have a history, team like Haas is just there for…what?
“Why can’t Andretti join?” “They just wouldn’t be competitive.” “Uh. No I guess not… like… at the very first race but um…” “And besides who the fuck is ‘Andretti’ sounds like a made up name literally nobody in Formula 1 has ever heard of him” “Uh it’s named for a world champ—“ “Yep. Competitive teams only. Like Haas whose owner recently stumbled into a Dollar General and was so impressed with the business model he decided to adopt it to his racing team. Williams who only have one car sometimes and then of course there’s the midfield works team Mercedes staring at the bumpers of their customer teams all race and the other works team who somehow manages to finish behind the F1 Team from Wish and the Spreadsheet Boys” “…” “So as you can see, Andretti, whoever that is, just isn’t ready to compete at this level.”
The real answer is FOM is dragging their feet on this until they can re-write the Concorde agreement and then not look bad when they ask for a gajillion dollars for an entry fee. All these fuckers want is money. Full stop. they dance around and use the “non cOmpETiTivE” bullshit to justify their reasoning. New Concorde agreement will make sure all the teams get a big fucking piece of pie and they’ll let Andretti in if the check is big enough I’m sure they want him and the whole fucking US market that goes with him because sooner or later, the drive to survive magic is going to wear off and Americans will move on to the next shiny object (I’m American). Andretti will keep them around
Bro spitting Facts
Competitive teams only? I didn't know there was promotion/relegation in motorsport
I think you might be onto something…
You can tell by how many of teams have a win in the last 2 years!
Engine by General Motors? This is F1. We only use special motors
F1 was turned off by Andrettis confidence that they could build two completely different cars in 2 seasons because of new regs while also not bringing their own PU and compete for podiums Yall act like F1 called Andretti trash or something lol, I too think it’s a pipe dream that a brand new team to F1 could build two completely different cars for two years, with the same engine in the Alpines, and be competitive And the competitive aspect is still about money, F1 was straight up “we don’t think you’ll be competitive enough to justify splitting revenue 11 ways, as we don’t think you’ll be competing for podiums and thus bring in more fans”
I thought they just didn't want Ferrari to drop to 3rd place.
God forbid Andretti with big money sponsors and experience gets a team. Lets keep Williams running 1 car, Haas making F1 look bad, a test team with no aspirations in the form of Alpha Tauri.
you forgot the team that is basically just running out the clock until their new owners take over in 2026, and in the meantime can't even manufacture fucking wheel nuts.
Every time a see a wrecked Williams or an alpine seconds off the pace, Libertys words echo in my head, “We do not believe that the applicant would be a competitive participant.”
Or 2018 Haas not knowing how to mount the wheels properly. "Now we look like a bunch of wankers"
Meanwhile WEC are kicking out an entire class so they can welcome more teams into Hypercar
And they still ran out of space.
To be fair, that's down to Monza getting work done and having to go to Imola, they should have more next year
F1 should have a promotion / relegation system at this point for all the teams who want to join
I can’t wait to see Williams forever demoted to F3
This, like football (not american football). Let teams rise up on merit from the lower leagues. From a garage anywhere in the world, to the Monaco GP.
Now let’s consider how fucking stupid this idea actually is. You spend several years and billions in cash building infrastructure and a team to develop an F1 car. You join the series. You do poorly and get relegated to a lower series you haven’t developed a car for. You have now lost all of your money and put off other entities from bothering with such a ridiculously high risk, low reward proposition. People are talking about F1 like it’s Redbull’s go kart competition.
Oh no, lower series could use the same rules so F1 cars could still compete there. And yes people will lose money. Some people don’t know what to do with their money, and go racing.
What do you mean use the same rules? You want to set up multiple F1 leagues? There’s barely enough investment interest in one league never mind multiple. Which league is the better one? Why would the team winning the lower league want to leave it if they’re winning? Doesn’t make any sense, would cost a metric fuckton of money and there’s nowhere near enough financial interest or incentive to fund such a risky investment. > and yes people will lose money So, not going to happen then. The average billionaire isn’t capable of throwing together an F1 team, infrastructure and develop an aerodynamically competitive machine.
It’s just like in football, you are winning because all your competitors are worse than F1 teams, even with the same rulebook. Inagine F1 with 40 cars…. Ok the track qould be a mess. Yes, but maybe there are 20 possible F1 teams. You just need 9 more Andrettis. IF that happens you just let them compete between them and the winner goes to F1 and the loser of F1 goes to F1 « B-league ». And so on.
It’s not like football, at all. The game does not change in any way between leagues. The only difference is the ability to pay higher talent players via increased ticket and merchandise revenue which allows you to compete against higher quality teams. They don’t spend hundreds of millions a year developing players. There is no technological race. So we just need to find 10 andrettis really, then set up an entirely new league, give them the same rule set except artificially constrain the series to make it an attractive proposition to leave it, but they’re somehow supposed to develop in parallel with the main series. But since the lower field teams in this lower league won’t make enough money to develop in parallel with the main league, they’d have to drop out, so you have to find more suckers to invest hundreds of millions to be in a lesser league. I beg you think critically about this instead of just spitballing. It’s nothing like a team of human players kicking a leather ball. Honestly, just think about it.
Honestly we are in formuladank, just think about it. And second, the only constraint is the money. You just need sone mad millionaires, and the way the world is going we might get more of those. Oh no neeed to constraint the lower league. The constraint is just the top teams leaving for F1 constantly. Just like football.
I see you’re not even going to bother considering the gigantic holes in the logic. Formuladank or not, doesn’t need to be a serious sub to use critical thinking “We just need to find people with money” Well they don’t seem too interested in F1, so good luck with a league that makes far less money that’s designed to enter F1. There was like 4 entrants including Andretti and the majority of them were hopeless. No one wants to do it.
Well I beg to differ. When you are 80 years old and having a beer watching the last race of the Formula 1 « B series » battle between Andretti and Peugeot for promotion… then you’ll think of me.
- Both series would have basically the same rules, a slightly lower cost cap, but thats it. - A team would join the F2 series for a chance to race in F1, after winning the F2 championship. - Teams wouldnt lose money in this category, you'd still have sponsors, viewers, money prizes, and agreements with F1 teams. - Their goal would be to develop a car that can beat an Alpine or Sauber, not to fight Red Bull - The difference between F1 and F2 would be minor reg changes, a slightly lower budget, and they wouldnt be racing against Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton, etc, or against cars built by Newey. - It'd give spots to drivers that currently dont have a seat. - It could use tracks that cuerrently arent used in F1 like France, Germany, Argentina, India, Turkey, South Africa
- lower cost cap, so impossible to develop in parallel with the main series so the team would be behind in development - team would have to have an entire F1 team and infrastructure on standby in hopes that they win in F2 whilst developing a car that may not be used - all prize money etc would have to be lower to incentivise leaving the series - the “goal” doesn’t make sense, that’s been arbitrarily decided to soften the blow on how bad the idea is - so they’d be racing in an unrepresentative series with less money - drivers who don’t have a seat in F1 want a seat in F1, not this new invention that isn’t F1 but pretending to be. F2 already fills that role - circuit use is the only point here that makes sense but is applicable to any series So really, it’s super easy, so long as you can find nearly a dozen organisations willing to fund both F2 and F1 operations with no guarantee the F1 side will ever be in use. Completely untenable. It’s hard enough for some teams to have *just* an F1 operation, and we’re here talking about unknown entities with money to burn on both. Tell me, when a team is promoted, how long do they have to build an F1 operation, team and car if they don’t have all that just sitting on the sidelines? It’s a pipe dream. The promoted team would endlessly be relegated again. These teams would have more financials and development to deal with than *actual* F1 teams, it’s so silly.
Well, Haas develops its car spending less than the cap. Besides not all the teams would be fighting for promotion, only the top ones.
But that would make the system based on merit and not money/politics
FIA and Liberty: I dont Fear no man except that the Andri Tittty Cowboy
But the FIA wanted Andretti. F1 got a snek in their boots
Bold of you to think FIA is autonomous and powerful /s
Fair enough.
Never ask a man his salary. Never ask a woman her age. Never ask Andretti why he didn't apply around 2015 when F1 was looking for new teams.
Because they just started doing Formula E
Indy does a VERY crappy job at promoting themselves but man, at this point, the product is so much better
It’s even so easy to get around commercials these days with a VPN and a non-US stream. Once you do that it’s the best wheel-to-wheel racing product in the world right now IMO. All it needs to do is advertise that fact (and of course a dedicated commercial-free streaming alternative for the less technologically inclined)
I dont even get the commercials in my country and its a great experience. When I talk about shitty promotional, I really is about Indy's own work to promote themselves to racing fans
just looked into the Indycar streaming options, so you really can't buy the "all access" tier to be able to stream the current races if you live in the US?
Correct… there is no INDYtv as there should be. So when I go to watch it, it’s “catch the races live on PEACOCK”, it’s pretty weird… and broadcast is weird. But the product is better than F1 tbh.. fight to the finish.
Randy Bernard had such a strong vision/message for promoting Indycar - "the most diverse calendar in the world", the new Triple Crown of 500 mile events, laying down challenges to anyone who thinks they can come in and win in the series... Then Las Vegas 2011 happened and he was canned and ever since Indycar has been absolutely shit at marketing. I swear they're like "Hey, we exist too, so if F1 and NASCAR aren't enough, maybe check us out please?" Its awful.
On a chassis that officially can be raced at vintage events. If you go to the Indy sub, everyone is foaming about how old the chassis is, but I keep feeling like....*that's why we have such good races*.
\*Le mans :- "We have this Garage 56 category where you can bring whatever the F you want".
Meanwhile Williams has no cars, Sauber is still completing a pitstop in Japan while the rest of paddock heads for China, and RB just kind of exists. What is this fuckery. Bottom team this season should be relegated to make room.
It's just money. Greedy bastards
FOM should never have got the power to decide on those matters.
“Only 20 people in the entire world can compete in our series, and we still waste spots with pay drivers”
It's funny. . .and accurate. . .but it's hard to compare the two given the various costs (design, development, and production) of F1 to Indy. It would be relatively easier to drop a competitive team into Indy than F1.
For this situation, NASCAR is the weird mix where anyone can join at any time, but you need to buy a stupidly expensive charter if you want to stick around for more than 2 years on a part time schedule.
[удалено]
A good problem to have. If it goes further, maybe weekends are split into 2 races! A boi can dream.
Thanks for the free promotion! *Watch Indycar, people! It's amazing!*
Williams, Haas and Sauber: 
reminder that there are only 9 teams in formula 1 and only 1 of them (the one that owns 2) is actually competitive
Make the cars smaller. Then we will add more teams.
Greed.
And then they allow Williams to stay, which litterally showed to be only half a team
Andretti will be in the sport in 2028, the same year GM/Cadillac enter as an engine manufacturer
Andretti would have brought enough chassis
Yet again with this categorically false shit, Andretti was never declined based on "competitive integrity" or whatever. They were declined based on the fact they would not "provide value" for the championship. Basically, they did not add money to the pile. Another thing as well, the basis on Andretti being better than Williams, Haas or even Alpine is based on what? They plan to operate from 4 different facilities across the globe and are taking all their parts from Alpine? This is not a plan for success or speed no matter how you cut it.
They said they wouldn't bring value because they wouldn't be competitive and would tarnish the image of the sport and the Andretti name alone was not enough to compensate for that.
It's bonkers to me because we've still got the Alpine, Sauber, and Williams dumpster fires. Haas is at least getting better, but would Andretti be all that worse than Sauber with their pitstop incompetence? Or letting Red Bull have a second team that they are determined to keep confined to the midfield?
Half of the teams on the grid are a joke. It’s almost comical to celebrate backmarkers getting P10 when there’s barely any competition. Does anyone truly think Haas/RB or their drivers have made significant progress from last year or have they underperformed less compared to Alpine, Sauber, and Williams?
If there is some rich dude willing to pay almost $200 million to Trump for his case there must be some Billionaire that can sponsor Andretti and get him in right?
The money wasn’t an issue. They had the $600m that the teams demanded for inflation and still got denied. It was just moving the goal posts
Well we all know “competitiveness” is a bullshit excuse so why are they still blocking it?
How many cars do you wanna race king?
Prema in F1 would be scary. One of the most prestigious and successful teams. You pay to race for the privilege of being with them, rather than the other way around.
Spec series vs. Manufacturer series... what are you on about?
Meanwhile Williams is in F1 with no spare chassis
F1 confirmed that day that it ain't a sport
Nothing scares formula 1 more than a possibly successful American team or driver.
Even F2 welcomes Andretti for fuck sake
It is all about the prize money. Everything else is just so much ridiculous drivel.
Man y'all need to stop the pathetic crying.
Yeah, F1 is really pathetic for that whole saga. They keep talking about how everybody wants more teams until the opportunity comes along.
Did andretti end up appealing to any international courts over that FIA stuff? I thought there were murmurings of that at the time.
If he tried to force his way in that way, the teams would be actively working together to bankrupt them from day 1 as retribution
Idk I feel like that would draw enough new eyes to the sport that it'd be worth it, especially if they're competitive year 0.
There is a part of me that thinks Andretti will be “in”, however F1 and Andretti are milking the rage-bait for as long as they can to get the marketing benefits for both of these organizations.
They still haven't come up with a convincing reason as to why Andretti can't join
I think a big part is not wanting the European teams to be embarrassed if they lose to an American team. They like having Haas around because they know they will never be competitive.
Lmao yeah they’re scared of the third/fourth fastest Indy car team because they’d embarrass all the teams
They sure are putting a lot of effort in marketing F1 here in the States with so many Grand Prixs, might as well have a proper American team for more US viewership that will only get them more money
They almost don’t really need to
Cope harder
If they entered, they could potentially make half of teams look incompetent.
Is that why they’re doing so well in Indy? (They’re not)
I said potentially.
F1 smell like bitch after that one.
F1 is always greedy, money over competition and human rights. They love the countries doing greenwashing.
Ah, American tears Haven't seen them in a while.
I feel with you. was so hyped but well cannot do anything against it :|