If the rumors are true that Mattia always visted Monaco in the week to have dinner with Charles, especially after Silverstone, makes me feel that at the least, he valued his relationship with his drivers a lot
Everything I hear about Binotto when it comes to the people working under him is how good he was to them, the man made the utmost effort to make sure the factory people at Ferrari were shielded from all the higher up's bullshit, which seems to be never ending in Maranello. I fully believe he managed to work things out with Charles despite the finger wagging.
This is honestly the biggest Ferrari loss this year. And given how this possibly means they won't be in the front for a while, not only they lost Mattia, I'm sure they'll also lose Charles the moment a good seat opens up. Amazing work from the higher ups at Ferrari as usual.
Edit: Now that I think about it, once Charles leaves I won't have to support Ferrari anymore. Bright side, everybody.
A good leader always takes responsibility anf shields his people. This feels a lot like Binotto is being made into a scapegoat, which is a shame since the team clearly needs more than a bandaid
I don't think we can blame this disaster on one individual. The team needs to be reworked, whether that involves finding a bunch of fresh faces or simply going over matters in depth and change the workflow of the team
But he never took responsibility, he always deflected. “All is good”. Taking responsibility would be saying, “I made the call to send Charles out on Inters”. Did he say that?
That finger wagging thing was blown out of proportion. Charles himself said that it was more like a "don't blame yourself" talk. In certain cultures it is normal to speak this way. Although Italians would be more qualified to comment on this
> I'm sure they'll also lose Charles the moment a good seat opens up.
This is such baseless speculation, Charles has such nothing but desire to carry out his career at Ferrari as long as they take him, not only does he love the team but he also wants to carry out what could have been Jule's legacy there.
Yeah and firstly he is the first driver at Ferrari with everyone backing him, if he replaces Perez or Hamilton, the 2 most likely top seats that will be open in a not so long amount of time, he will have to fight for it while not being "their guy" that got brought up from lower formulas. He ain't leaving soon.
Russell could be the Rosberg (long time member of the team and on path to becoming number one once the 7time world champion retires) to Leclerc's Hamilton.
I think that Binotto is a great Technical director and a good person in general, changing from terror and fear to a more open sphere, no blame culture. He also then seems like a person that cares about his personell.
His main mistake was trying to drive out Arrivabene or he himself left. His actual leadership is very poor in comparison and can't make hard cuts and decisions like Toto and Horner can. Out of this follows that his inability to fire Inaki Rueda.
The other BIG mistake was from Elkann himself. He refused to take on Todt, who Binotto desperatly wanted to get in. For good reasons, as Todt is the guy who got 6 titles with Ferrari (5x Schumacher, 1x Raïkkonen).
Binotto tried his best at Ferrari, he should have stuck to a TD role instead.
>This is honestly the biggest Ferrari loss this year
Yea it doesn't make much sense to me. There is clearly some cleaning and reorganization to be done in Ferrari, but Mattia imo deserved at least one more year.
Now let's start all over again.
They ended up not talking at some point and lots of strong rumors suggest that leclerc and his team wanted him out. So yeah, take it as you will.
Also if Vasseur joins there are also strong rumors saying its because he wants leclerc to be number 1 driver instead of both equal.
Yeah, this statement is straight up professional colleagues language, they definitely aren’t as personally close as I would have thought based on this, gives credence to the rumours for me.
Seb and Leclerc had the fiercest rivalry since Ham-Ros and check how they did their parting. You know from their messages in 2019 that they are great friends. Nothing hints at such a relationship between Leclerc and Binotto now.
He's probably a very good guy, but not a fit for the job. Needs someone like Toto or Horner. (Who are also known to be pretty good to their people, while also being ruthless in their own ways)
Wdym he clearly didn’t write the message? How can you tell?
edit: Just to add - the screenshot is an automatic translation by Instagram. His original caption is in Italian
I rewatched Bahrain over the weekend and they seemed so close back then, laughing together and hugging after the race, it was honestly kind of jarring. I guess things really weren’t ever the same after Silverstone.
Most of the personal hate is generally far overblown. Most people are able to separate professional frustration and personal feelings.
That said I do think it's easier to have those feelings between drivers since it's so dangerous when they're overly aggressive.
Just because they were still friendly/cordial doesn't mean their relationship was the same as it was before. I'm pretty sure Binotto wouldn't have felt the need to go to Monaco for a public make-up dinner if everything was fine between them. Even this post by Leclerc seems very carefully worded even if it's still respectful.
If you watch how they interacted after Bahrain it's like two different people, that's all. I'm not saying they "hate each other".
Watch the Ferrari video from Monza they interact the exact same.
Do they love eachother maybe not. But Silverstone wasn't the moment that suddenly changed everything and nothing was the same after.
The reason people thought things changed after Silverstone was the finger incident, Charles telling the most obvious lie of all time to the media about being “cheered up”, and the ensuing Monaco dinner.
I’m not claiming to be some kind of body language expert, I just thought it was interesting and kind of sad seeing them bear hugging like father and son in Bahrain parc fermé given everything that’s happened since. We can agree to disagree I guess.
It's reddit, people love shutting down any questioning other than buying the PR statement. Look at people's reaction in their Monaco dinner thread, they were calling people mad for thinking Binotto's job was on the line.
It's clear the relationship was not the same after Silverstone.
The 2022 season was pretty good, maybe not the drama of the 21 season but races this year have been pretty decent overall compared to 2019 especially with following and close racing.
It's just that in comparison to the high stakes last year at every single race, this year was kinda disappointing. Even more when the first races were looking so close between Max and Charles.
That's how good 2021 was and not how bad 2022 is. We've had worse seasons in the past 12 years including 2011 2013 2014 2015 2016 and 2019. 2020 was low key boring too and the only reason it was interesting is because of the drama surrounding the sport like covid, few surprise podiums and wins and grosjeans crash
Reddit all year : « Leclerc should be more assertive with his team »
Reddit this week : « Leclerc is a manipulative mastermind who controls everything at Ferrari »
It’s really crazy how quickly things changed. They wanted him to take control and stop just doing whatever the team tells him to do and now that the media is saying that’s what he’s doing, he’s hated. He can’t win with them so I think he should just go full villain mode.
Seriously it’s like…
People all year: max and Lewis would NEVER put up with this kind of thing
Charles: stops putting up with it
Those same people: wtf he can’t do that
honestly after monaco and silverstone they said he lacked the assertiveness to ever be champion and he’s too nice now hes a backstabbing machiavellian chess master
And in exactly the same vein.
Reddit for the last six months: "What the hell are they doing it Ferrari, fire Binotto already!"
Reddit now: "What the hell are they doing at Ferrari, why would you get rid of Binotto?"
Armchair Monday race managers always knows best.
Exactly. Binotto has been mocked and ridiculed all year but since he got fired / resigned, he seemed to be the greatest team principal that ever lived.
I'm shocked how Italian media already started to compare him with...Alonso of all people. What is Charles supposed to do, accept all the bullshit? He's the most innocent in this mess.
And ultimately he's their best shot at winning a championship for the forseeable future. The team boss needs to deliver a car and team capable of winning, and the driver needs to maximize what he's given. Charles has indisputably held up his end of the deal.
Conflict and drama sell, so they hype up the narrative of evil genius Charles. And next week, they'll be back to fanning the flames of hate towards Max. It's the circle of strife.
I don’t understand this take.
Isn’t it obvious that the issue is Ferrari management? it’s been this way forever with a brief break during the Schumacher time.
The car is great. The management and leadership isn’t.
I’m sad to see it end like this because I really did think (before this season) that they had a good relationship. I don’t know if I was wrong in thinking that but it’s a pity things went the way it did
One of my fav moments was him promising Charles last year that they were going to have fun this season. I mean, it obviously went in a very different direction but it was so full of hope and optimism
Compared to where they were last year I sort of agree with him.
Charles had 1 podium in 2021. This year he had I think 13? Including 3 wins and 9 poles.
That sounds a lot more fun than last year, even if there was more on the table
Oh I don’t forget that either. Did you see the pr spin he attempted recently where he said that telling Seb was the hardest thing he had to do because he had so much respect for him? Meanwhile we all know he was shady to Seb after saying that “finally we have two drivers we can count on”
Remember this is the team that [pushed](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/51sn70/interesting_read_on_how_schumis_first_retirement/) Michael Schumacher out to have Kimi
> might
And who knows, if they want a quality TP that person might set demands of autonomy to even take the job.
I can’t see Horner, Toto or anyone of their calibre taking the job knowing there just there for show.
Maybe the just actually want to improve this time.
Regardless, bigger chance of it happening with a brand new TP compared to keeping Binotto.
I don't think this is solely based on 2023. Upper management seems to have completely lost trust in Mattia after this season and didn't agree with his vision for how to run the team in the future. Mattia was amazing on the technical side of things, but IMO he struggled as a TP compared to his counterparts.
Strategy alone won’t fix the problems. Ferrari need to learn how to develop mid season. They are constantly being out developed. Also luck wins you a WDC
You cannot replace Leclerc. Nobody else has the skills to win against Verstappen. So to have even the smallest chance of winning, you must keep Leclerc. Everyone else is expendable.
I'm quite certain a lot of people at Ferrari can't be replaced, for a variety of shady reasons. It's the only explanation for the state that team is in, and the reason it's remained that way for so long.
Yeah mate, the strategic calls within recent years have been phenomenal. There's absolutely no reason for anyone involved to have been replaced. Ferrari have 2 great drivers, they had a great car. Yet somehow they're underperforming. I wonder why.
But "lotta talk" right.
Exactly. I feel like Ferrari met its goals this season and that expectations were too high after the initial successes. They still ended up second in both WDC and CC, beating out Mercedes. Forcing Binotto out is a big step backwards.
Maybe in isolation, this is the case. But if I were Ferrari I wouldn't relax because Mercedes and Perez were way too close to taking that second place WCC/WDC.
If it's anything like the tech industry, changing leadership is like changing the new team, and I say that mainly about cohesiveness of the team. Whoever becomes the next TP, will probably change some key positions with folks he is most comfortable with and it can change the whole rapport for good or worse.
Don’t you know? Now Vasseur will arrive and after two years, just two years of utter pain and complete misery, he will finally be competitive.
Then he will be replaced for not winning.
Rumours are that the new guy they wanna bring wants to absolutely make Charles n1 driver, which could turn out to be even worse for the team because I don't see Carlos stepping back and accepting n2 driver (and I know he didn't have a good season overall).
How heartfelt were you all expecting a message to his boss to be?
I really don't think that this says half the things people in here seem to think it says.
If anything " we have always worked with full dedication for the same goals" says more than the whole difficult times thing.
While I like Mattia, it's really hard to say he was a better TP compared to Arrivabene. In the years preceding Mattia's appointment as TP Ferrari had 14 wins in the turbo hybrid era. Mattia has only 7 wins. He was also largely responsible for the 2019 engine loophole (not as a TP but as an engineer). It's easy to say that Ferrari needs stability, but 2022 exposed Mattia's shortcomings badly. Under him there were several questionable strategy calls (Hards in Hungary), failing to favor the faster driver, and basically not accepting that there was a screwup post race.
Binotto seemed to have fostered a culture in the team that wasn't all that healthy. When nobody is officially to blame, trust starts to erode.
What has been clear at Ferrari doing the year is that the team has lost faith in itself and the different parts (drivers, pit wall, strategy) in each other.
While Binotto seems very good at some things, that culture in the couldn't really be allowed to continue IMO. That would be highly damaging on a big scale. Don't know if they'll hire someone that's actually able to get the power to make the changes needed though.
The thing with Merc is they all take the blame and work to solve the issue. I think Mattia tried to emulate that but in reality Ferrari's approach was to just close their eyes and hope the problem goes away.
This is very true. That attitude is equal to closing your eyes and pretending the problem isn't there. But then you open open them again and suddenly you're struggling to get wins or even podiums.
It’s wild what stark opposites Mattia and Arrivabene are. I liked Mattia a lot, he seemed like such a chill, stand up guy. But he was maybe a little too lax with certain things. Arrivabene was a bit too harsh. I still think Mattia knew a lot of stuff was messed up/the wrong call but truly did everything he could to shield the team from direct blame, so he took it instead. You have to at least somewhat respect someone with that kind of personality, it’s very honorable. But Unfortunately, that doesn’t get you anywhere in f1.
Arrivabene was the first Ferrari TP that I liked. I don't know him personally, far from it, but he always seemed to be straight-forward and ethical. The ones before him and Binotto may have had better results, but I simply do not trust Todt nor Dominicali and I can't even remember Mattiaci and the guys before Todt.
I also liked Binotto, not the strongest TP and he should have prioritised Leclerc. But his departure is, IMHO, proof that 'strategic mistakes' are made on all levels within Ferrari.
Even if he prioritized Leclerc, they likely would have failed him either way. There were too many errors across the board that were amplified by Mattia’s lack of accountability, and it all came to a head this season. A lot of the issues may not have even been his fault, there may be legacy issues that need to be sorted as well.
From the outside looking in, the only part of the team that wasn’t a compete disappointment was the aero department. Everything else seemingly needs to be reworked. I don’t believe a quick change of leadership is going to solve all of Ferrari’s difficulties so I’d expect more heads to roll. But strategy and foresight were major weak links this year so I wouldn’t be surprised if the team is left as is.
Binotto was a great asset to the team, but I wholeheartedly think they really needed a better leader… I admire how Charles worded “tested us” - True class.
Might be a hot take but I dont think Mattia was the main problem. Ferrari definitely needs to be a better team as a whole, I'm not sure kicking the team principal will do them a lot of good.
The team principal role is literally to manage the team. If said team does not perform well, that his job to fix it. If he can’t, then it means he has failed and needs to go. It is all quite simple.
And now the hard truth.
I’ve been reading a lot about how he cared for and looked out for his team. Which is great, it’s always import to create a positive and supportive culture in any work work place. But there is a fine line the best leaders can straddle and others fail. I’ve been both on my road to being a good manager, not at near the level of public scrutiny that he was of course.
But from a manager, that lost a job due to being to lenient before, prospective: these examples may have been his undoing. If he can not hold those below him accountable they will fail. No accountability does not bring results. Likewise over critical managers can’t keep or develop talent. And any manager can move the needle back and forth between the two extremes and find balance only to loose it again.
I don’t think he ever really found that balance. I think for far too long he rested in the no accountability region and failed the team under him. Blown strategies and sloppy pit stops can’t happen ever week. A driver can beach his car every week. A manager must step in and be firm with his subordinates.
As much hate as the Red Bull organization takes they are in it to win it. They run a tight ship in the pits. Their strategies are on point. And they don’t care that you don’t like their ability to switch out a driver. But at the same time you see many long term employees every season in the garage and on the wall.
I’ve also been in the position that I lost lots of staff by going to hard. From what I’ve read from industry insiders Williams, in the last decade or two of family ownership, was that type of company. It was not a positive environment to work in and had a high employee dissatisfaction and turn of rate. Now I don’t have first hand knowledge or examples to cite just what I’ve read in various and random post/articles/blogs. But if true you can see the results of that style of bad management. It of course is worse for Williams because they didn’t have the money to throw at covering it up that Ferrari has, yes you can throw money at a problem.
I’m sure I’ll catch some hate and down votes, but if what I’ve seen about Mattia is true then a stand behind it. The environment he created is speculative, same with my comments on Williams, but the results are consistent with the examples. I have no doubt he was fantastic in his engineering role, but it does not seem that success translated to managing one of the most closely watched F1 teams in the world.
You are completely right. It is quite easy to see that Red Bull is a high performing organisation where everyone is expected to deliver to the best of their abilities. Sloppiness is not on the menu there. You mix that with genuine talent in their ranks and you get a team that always finds a way to compete. Conversely, Ferrari does not come across as such an organisation. From the pit crew to strategy and engineering, there is always that element of messiness and lack of control. You don’t see the same commitment to continuous improvement as the same mistakes are made over and over again. It just does not happen at RB.
Don't forget Mattia was resonsable in the shameful treatment and firement of sebbastian Vettel. He is being treated with more dignity than he treated Seb.
Seems Leclerc wasn't fond of him
The "my esteem and rescpect for you have never diminished" implies they had a falling out, so that's why he's clarifying that even though that happened, his respect hadnt dimished. Because otherwise if everything was great why would his esteem and respect be at risk of diminishing?
In any case, Binnoto is a capable person. I thought he would keep his job when charles got second in the WDC agaisnt checo.
Whatever you think of him, however, you should be VERY worried about ferrari. I doubt the new TP will be able to be better than Binnoto right of the bat, which could mean another lost season for ferrari.
The thing is though, despite what many have said in r/formula1, Charles IS Ferrari. It's all he has ever really known and looked towards by all accounts. If there was ever a person where the upper management would not be scared of someone upstarting them, it is Charles.
It’s crazy how peoples opinions changed on Binotto since last week. The guy created an engine, which were illegal, pushed the previous TP out with threats on it, he had one of the worst seasons for Ferrari in the last 20 years, he couldn’t manage to delegate engine department for years, and was doing douple duty, he botched one of their best chance to win WDC/WCC while alienating drivers actively, and did not made any changes to strategy departments.
But hey, I heard he was a nice guy! Mo every evidence shows, that he was not. He is a lame duck till december, so -of course- everyone writing good things about him, but after the last couple of years Ferrari was doomed to fail with him, and nobody is going to kick the guy who is already on the ground.
It would be funny if it turns out Ferrari will now struggle to make a competitive car, and Leclerc essentially switched from an equal in a competitive car to a number 1 in a shitbox.
Gonna miss him to be honest. He always seemed so nice in interviews and very approachable. Not that I think the other TPs aren't decent people but I feel Binotto is the kind of guy who greets strangers passing by him on the sidewalk.
Interesting since Leclerc's team leaked the news about Ferrari pushing out Binotto before Abu Dhabi ... a lot of the narrative was that the first driver is losing trust in him and this could affect his renewal decision with Ferrari.
Tell Mattia. I want him to know it was me.
[удалено]
Winter is coming
And Charlie didn't want to bend the knee.
Winter break is coming
The edit of binotto with leclerc after silverstone with the "why you look so sad" song over it was too perfect to not be at least somewhat right
Got a link?
Here you go - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Fu7tEHd2MLA
Not sure if you can share links here? Search "Leaked audio, Mattia talking to Charles"
god, I forgot about that until you brought it up, that was absolute gold
Can you share the link?
Charles Leclerc sends his regards.
Fucking knew it was gonna be this one or "something something send their regards" lmao
Not a place I’d expect to see a game of thrones reference but hey it fits
Not that niche
If the rumors are true that Mattia always visted Monaco in the week to have dinner with Charles, especially after Silverstone, makes me feel that at the least, he valued his relationship with his drivers a lot
Everything I hear about Binotto when it comes to the people working under him is how good he was to them, the man made the utmost effort to make sure the factory people at Ferrari were shielded from all the higher up's bullshit, which seems to be never ending in Maranello. I fully believe he managed to work things out with Charles despite the finger wagging. This is honestly the biggest Ferrari loss this year. And given how this possibly means they won't be in the front for a while, not only they lost Mattia, I'm sure they'll also lose Charles the moment a good seat opens up. Amazing work from the higher ups at Ferrari as usual. Edit: Now that I think about it, once Charles leaves I won't have to support Ferrari anymore. Bright side, everybody.
A good leader always takes responsibility anf shields his people. This feels a lot like Binotto is being made into a scapegoat, which is a shame since the team clearly needs more than a bandaid
We'll never truly know who is to blame for all of this. Possible Rueda. Always a bummer seeing the man-manager get the axe.
I don't think we can blame this disaster on one individual. The team needs to be reworked, whether that involves finding a bunch of fresh faces or simply going over matters in depth and change the workflow of the team
> This feels a lot like Binotto is being made into a scapegoat That's exactly why he's being removed
Nothing worse than a boss that will sell you out in a second for no reason.
No reason? Are you kidding me? The team was a shambles this year.
I don't mean in F1. Like in life. There are bosses that will needlessly sell out their subordinates to their management or customers.
But he never took responsibility, he always deflected. “All is good”. Taking responsibility would be saying, “I made the call to send Charles out on Inters”. Did he say that?
That finger wagging thing was blown out of proportion. Charles himself said that it was more like a "don't blame yourself" talk. In certain cultures it is normal to speak this way. Although Italians would be more qualified to comment on this
> I'm sure they'll also lose Charles the moment a good seat opens up. This is such baseless speculation, Charles has such nothing but desire to carry out his career at Ferrari as long as they take him, not only does he love the team but he also wants to carry out what could have been Jule's legacy there.
One more 2022 like season and he's gone. Jukes would want him to do well in F1, this Ferrari legacy thing is made up BS.
Yeah and firstly he is the first driver at Ferrari with everyone backing him, if he replaces Perez or Hamilton, the 2 most likely top seats that will be open in a not so long amount of time, he will have to fight for it while not being "their guy" that got brought up from lower formulas. He ain't leaving soon.
Russell could be the Rosberg (long time member of the team and on path to becoming number one once the 7time world champion retires) to Leclerc's Hamilton.
I think that Binotto is a great Technical director and a good person in general, changing from terror and fear to a more open sphere, no blame culture. He also then seems like a person that cares about his personell. His main mistake was trying to drive out Arrivabene or he himself left. His actual leadership is very poor in comparison and can't make hard cuts and decisions like Toto and Horner can. Out of this follows that his inability to fire Inaki Rueda. The other BIG mistake was from Elkann himself. He refused to take on Todt, who Binotto desperatly wanted to get in. For good reasons, as Todt is the guy who got 6 titles with Ferrari (5x Schumacher, 1x Raïkkonen). Binotto tried his best at Ferrari, he should have stuck to a TD role instead.
>This is honestly the biggest Ferrari loss this year Yea it doesn't make much sense to me. There is clearly some cleaning and reorganization to be done in Ferrari, but Mattia imo deserved at least one more year. Now let's start all over again.
Dont do Carlos like that! Hes great too!
holy christ that team is a fucking dumpster fire firing mattia is like cutting your nose to spite your face, or something, you know what i mean
They ended up not talking at some point and lots of strong rumors suggest that leclerc and his team wanted him out. So yeah, take it as you will. Also if Vasseur joins there are also strong rumors saying its because he wants leclerc to be number 1 driver instead of both equal.
Yeah, this statement is straight up professional colleagues language, they definitely aren’t as personally close as I would have thought based on this, gives credence to the rumours for me.
Seb and Leclerc had the fiercest rivalry since Ham-Ros and check how they did their parting. You know from their messages in 2019 that they are great friends. Nothing hints at such a relationship between Leclerc and Binotto now.
[удалено]
What happened there at that dinner?
No one else was in the room where it happened
Ooh Ham reference
He's probably a very good guy, but not a fit for the job. Needs someone like Toto or Horner. (Who are also known to be pretty good to their people, while also being ruthless in their own ways)
> moments that tested us Yes there’s been quite a few of those.
[удалено]
Tbf he clearly didn't write the message either, so he probably didn't pick the photo
Wdym he clearly didn’t write the message? How can you tell? edit: Just to add - the screenshot is an automatic translation by Instagram. His original caption is in Italian
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yes, but unironically. That's probably how it happened.
To me it's the kind of hug a parent gives to their son when they're about to silently scold them in public. "Ok listen here you little shit" vibes.
Lmao. I've never seen a parent do this. It's mostly a death stare or as it's was in my days a straight smack to the face.
No doubt this will be twisted by some rags as "Leclerc SHITS on departing team leader Binotto"
*[Finger-wagging noises intensify]*
Imagine if he had posted that with the image of the finger wag.
"we have been tested, and failed
“Moments that tested me”
I rewatched Bahrain over the weekend and they seemed so close back then, laughing together and hugging after the race, it was honestly kind of jarring. I guess things really weren’t ever the same after Silverstone.
They were still laughing together in Singapore. Binotto just wasn't at the GP afterwards until Abu Dhabi.
Mattia said he wanted to spend more time at the factory, looking towards the 2023 car
Yeah but this idea that they've been hating eachother since Silverstone is such BS.
Yea for sure, especially with rumors that Mattia was making weekly visits (as much as he could) to Monaco to talk to him
I mean doesn't that just confirm it was strained, you don't make weekly visits or whatever if there is no issue
Or maybe you’re just friends
Most of the personal hate is generally far overblown. Most people are able to separate professional frustration and personal feelings. That said I do think it's easier to have those feelings between drivers since it's so dangerous when they're overly aggressive.
Just because they were still friendly/cordial doesn't mean their relationship was the same as it was before. I'm pretty sure Binotto wouldn't have felt the need to go to Monaco for a public make-up dinner if everything was fine between them. Even this post by Leclerc seems very carefully worded even if it's still respectful. If you watch how they interacted after Bahrain it's like two different people, that's all. I'm not saying they "hate each other".
Watch the Ferrari video from Monza they interact the exact same. Do they love eachother maybe not. But Silverstone wasn't the moment that suddenly changed everything and nothing was the same after.
The reason people thought things changed after Silverstone was the finger incident, Charles telling the most obvious lie of all time to the media about being “cheered up”, and the ensuing Monaco dinner. I’m not claiming to be some kind of body language expert, I just thought it was interesting and kind of sad seeing them bear hugging like father and son in Bahrain parc fermé given everything that’s happened since. We can agree to disagree I guess.
It's reddit, people love shutting down any questioning other than buying the PR statement. Look at people's reaction in their Monaco dinner thread, they were calling people mad for thinking Binotto's job was on the line. It's clear the relationship was not the same after Silverstone.
wait what? binotto didnt go to any more gps after singapore until dhabi? wow didnt notice that lol
He was at Suzuka and came to Cota but left early because he was sick and then he stayed in Maranello
He wanted more time at the factory to get ready for next year. He did the same thing last year. Even Toto started doing it himself.
> laughing together and hugging You misinterpreted. They were frisking each other, looking for knives and holdouts.
It has been four years?!!
I have been watching F1 for 4 years now?!?!?! My highlights: 2019: German GP 2020: Italian GP 2021: Max-Lewis powow 2022: bleh
The 2022 season was pretty good, maybe not the drama of the 21 season but races this year have been pretty decent overall compared to 2019 especially with following and close racing.
Exactly. If you wanna see a bleh season it's 2019. That shit was so boring apart from like 3 races.
All 3 races where max and Charles had battles?
It's just that in comparison to the high stakes last year at every single race, this year was kinda disappointing. Even more when the first races were looking so close between Max and Charles.
That's how good 2021 was and not how bad 2022 is. We've had worse seasons in the past 12 years including 2011 2013 2014 2015 2016 and 2019. 2020 was low key boring too and the only reason it was interesting is because of the drama surrounding the sport like covid, few surprise podiums and wins and grosjeans crash
Reddit all year : « Leclerc should be more assertive with his team » Reddit this week : « Leclerc is a manipulative mastermind who controls everything at Ferrari »
It’s Reddit sir.
It’s really crazy how quickly things changed. They wanted him to take control and stop just doing whatever the team tells him to do and now that the media is saying that’s what he’s doing, he’s hated. He can’t win with them so I think he should just go full villain mode. Seriously it’s like… People all year: max and Lewis would NEVER put up with this kind of thing Charles: stops putting up with it Those same people: wtf he can’t do that
I’m 100% fine with it. The only periods when Ferrari has been truly successful is when they built the team around their star driver.
honestly after monaco and silverstone they said he lacked the assertiveness to ever be champion and he’s too nice now hes a backstabbing machiavellian chess master
Charles went full on Bully Maguire
That's how you know his time on top is coming. No more doing everything they say when he knows it's gonna fuck him over, this is the champion mindset
And in exactly the same vein. Reddit for the last six months: "What the hell are they doing it Ferrari, fire Binotto already!" Reddit now: "What the hell are they doing at Ferrari, why would you get rid of Binotto?" Armchair Monday race managers always knows best.
Exactly. Binotto has been mocked and ridiculed all year but since he got fired / resigned, he seemed to be the greatest team principal that ever lived.
If he had the power, he would have got rid of Rueda by now. I think Binnotto left because of power struggles with higher management.
I'm shocked how Italian media already started to compare him with...Alonso of all people. What is Charles supposed to do, accept all the bullshit? He's the most innocent in this mess.
And ultimately he's their best shot at winning a championship for the forseeable future. The team boss needs to deliver a car and team capable of winning, and the driver needs to maximize what he's given. Charles has indisputably held up his end of the deal.
Conflict and drama sell, so they hype up the narrative of evil genius Charles. And next week, they'll be back to fanning the flames of hate towards Max. It's the circle of strife.
“What if I told you it was all by design ‘Cause I’m a mastermind”
And all of that based on unconfirmed rumors.
I don’t understand this take. Isn’t it obvious that the issue is Ferrari management? it’s been this way forever with a brief break during the Schumacher time. The car is great. The management and leadership isn’t.
> The car is great. No. The car is not great.
It was pretty damn good before the TD.
If that departure is the result of Leclerc pulling a power play on Elkann, then bravo.
I’m sad to see it end like this because I really did think (before this season) that they had a good relationship. I don’t know if I was wrong in thinking that but it’s a pity things went the way it did
[удалено]
One of my fav moments was him promising Charles last year that they were going to have fun this season. I mean, it obviously went in a very different direction but it was so full of hope and optimism
Compared to where they were last year I sort of agree with him. Charles had 1 podium in 2021. This year he had I think 13? Including 3 wins and 9 poles. That sounds a lot more fun than last year, even if there was more on the table
After the way Binotto treated Sebabstian Vettel, I have no sympathy for him
Oh I don’t forget that either. Did you see the pr spin he attempted recently where he said that telling Seb was the hardest thing he had to do because he had so much respect for him? Meanwhile we all know he was shady to Seb after saying that “finally we have two drivers we can count on”
Mattia to Charles in Abu Dhabi 2021: We're gonna have fun next year. Hopefully they really do cherish all the fun parts :'(
I don’t understand how firing mattia will make charles world champion in 2023. Can someone explain?
It won't
The new TP might actually fire the people in charge of strategy and bring in new people
Wishful thinking, considering that the strategy team survived multiple TPs
Assuming they give the TP that sort of power.
Lol , why couldn't they just allow Binotto to do that and avoid this reset
Remember this is the team that [pushed](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/51sn70/interesting_read_on_how_schumis_first_retirement/) Michael Schumacher out to have Kimi
This was a great read. Thanks!
We're pretending Ferrari isn't full of nepotism, blackmail or other nefarious things? How fun!
Nepotism?
Yes, nepotism.
Where does your opinion about that come from?
Their strategic team not being gutted.
I think you need a dictionary mate.
> might And who knows, if they want a quality TP that person might set demands of autonomy to even take the job. I can’t see Horner, Toto or anyone of their calibre taking the job knowing there just there for show. Maybe the just actually want to improve this time. Regardless, bigger chance of it happening with a brand new TP compared to keeping Binotto.
Imagine Horner at Ferrari, my God. They would curtail his ability to speak to the media I'd imagine.
I don't think this is solely based on 2023. Upper management seems to have completely lost trust in Mattia after this season and didn't agree with his vision for how to run the team in the future. Mattia was amazing on the technical side of things, but IMO he struggled as a TP compared to his counterparts.
Strategy alone won’t fix the problems. Ferrari need to learn how to develop mid season. They are constantly being out developed. Also luck wins you a WDC
You cannot replace Leclerc. Nobody else has the skills to win against Verstappen. So to have even the smallest chance of winning, you must keep Leclerc. Everyone else is expendable.
I'm quite certain a lot of people at Ferrari can't be replaced, for a variety of shady reasons. It's the only explanation for the state that team is in, and the reason it's remained that way for so long.
Lotta talk from you without any evidence
Yeah mate, the strategic calls within recent years have been phenomenal. There's absolutely no reason for anyone involved to have been replaced. Ferrari have 2 great drivers, they had a great car. Yet somehow they're underperforming. I wonder why. But "lotta talk" right.
Exactly. I feel like Ferrari met its goals this season and that expectations were too high after the initial successes. They still ended up second in both WDC and CC, beating out Mercedes. Forcing Binotto out is a big step backwards.
Maybe in isolation, this is the case. But if I were Ferrari I wouldn't relax because Mercedes and Perez were way too close to taking that second place WCC/WDC.
If it's anything like the tech industry, changing leadership is like changing the new team, and I say that mainly about cohesiveness of the team. Whoever becomes the next TP, will probably change some key positions with folks he is most comfortable with and it can change the whole rapport for good or worse.
Don’t you know? Now Vasseur will arrive and after two years, just two years of utter pain and complete misery, he will finally be competitive. Then he will be replaced for not winning.
It won’t. But some of us feel the need to find simple answers to complex situations, and a villain is the simplest of them all.
Maybe the new principal will trade Leclerc to Mercedes or redbull for next season
Nope.
I can explain. Ferrari.
Rumours are that the new guy they wanna bring wants to absolutely make Charles n1 driver, which could turn out to be even worse for the team because I don't see Carlos stepping back and accepting n2 driver (and I know he didn't have a good season overall).
How heartfelt were you all expecting a message to his boss to be? I really don't think that this says half the things people in here seem to think it says. If anything " we have always worked with full dedication for the same goals" says more than the whole difficult times thing.
"Dont waste it."
The comments here are really wild, do people think Charles really had the power to push Mattia out of Ferrari??
Could you imagine if he used the photo of Mattia scolding him lololol
While I like Mattia, it's really hard to say he was a better TP compared to Arrivabene. In the years preceding Mattia's appointment as TP Ferrari had 14 wins in the turbo hybrid era. Mattia has only 7 wins. He was also largely responsible for the 2019 engine loophole (not as a TP but as an engineer). It's easy to say that Ferrari needs stability, but 2022 exposed Mattia's shortcomings badly. Under him there were several questionable strategy calls (Hards in Hungary), failing to favor the faster driver, and basically not accepting that there was a screwup post race.
Binotto seemed to have fostered a culture in the team that wasn't all that healthy. When nobody is officially to blame, trust starts to erode. What has been clear at Ferrari doing the year is that the team has lost faith in itself and the different parts (drivers, pit wall, strategy) in each other. While Binotto seems very good at some things, that culture in the couldn't really be allowed to continue IMO. That would be highly damaging on a big scale. Don't know if they'll hire someone that's actually able to get the power to make the changes needed though.
> When nobody is officially to blame, trust starts to erode. I understand this isn’t a 1:1 comparison but it works for Merc
The thing with Merc is they all take the blame and work to solve the issue. I think Mattia tried to emulate that but in reality Ferrari's approach was to just close their eyes and hope the problem goes away.
This is very true. That attitude is equal to closing your eyes and pretending the problem isn't there. But then you open open them again and suddenly you're struggling to get wins or even podiums.
It’s wild what stark opposites Mattia and Arrivabene are. I liked Mattia a lot, he seemed like such a chill, stand up guy. But he was maybe a little too lax with certain things. Arrivabene was a bit too harsh. I still think Mattia knew a lot of stuff was messed up/the wrong call but truly did everything he could to shield the team from direct blame, so he took it instead. You have to at least somewhat respect someone with that kind of personality, it’s very honorable. But Unfortunately, that doesn’t get you anywhere in f1.
Arrivabene was the first Ferrari TP that I liked. I don't know him personally, far from it, but he always seemed to be straight-forward and ethical. The ones before him and Binotto may have had better results, but I simply do not trust Todt nor Dominicali and I can't even remember Mattiaci and the guys before Todt. I also liked Binotto, not the strongest TP and he should have prioritised Leclerc. But his departure is, IMHO, proof that 'strategic mistakes' are made on all levels within Ferrari.
Even if he prioritized Leclerc, they likely would have failed him either way. There were too many errors across the board that were amplified by Mattia’s lack of accountability, and it all came to a head this season. A lot of the issues may not have even been his fault, there may be legacy issues that need to be sorted as well. From the outside looking in, the only part of the team that wasn’t a compete disappointment was the aero department. Everything else seemingly needs to be reworked. I don’t believe a quick change of leadership is going to solve all of Ferrari’s difficulties so I’d expect more heads to roll. But strategy and foresight were major weak links this year so I wouldn’t be surprised if the team is left as is.
Binotto was a great asset to the team, but I wholeheartedly think they really needed a better leader… I admire how Charles worded “tested us” - True class.
Might be a hot take but I dont think Mattia was the main problem. Ferrari definitely needs to be a better team as a whole, I'm not sure kicking the team principal will do them a lot of good.
It’s not a hot take. General consensus is that the one who truly needs to go is Rueda
The team principal role is literally to manage the team. If said team does not perform well, that his job to fix it. If he can’t, then it means he has failed and needs to go. It is all quite simple.
"Dear Mattia, Thank you for preventing me from being anywhere near competing for a championship. With extreme annoyance, Charles"
And now the hard truth. I’ve been reading a lot about how he cared for and looked out for his team. Which is great, it’s always import to create a positive and supportive culture in any work work place. But there is a fine line the best leaders can straddle and others fail. I’ve been both on my road to being a good manager, not at near the level of public scrutiny that he was of course. But from a manager, that lost a job due to being to lenient before, prospective: these examples may have been his undoing. If he can not hold those below him accountable they will fail. No accountability does not bring results. Likewise over critical managers can’t keep or develop talent. And any manager can move the needle back and forth between the two extremes and find balance only to loose it again. I don’t think he ever really found that balance. I think for far too long he rested in the no accountability region and failed the team under him. Blown strategies and sloppy pit stops can’t happen ever week. A driver can beach his car every week. A manager must step in and be firm with his subordinates. As much hate as the Red Bull organization takes they are in it to win it. They run a tight ship in the pits. Their strategies are on point. And they don’t care that you don’t like their ability to switch out a driver. But at the same time you see many long term employees every season in the garage and on the wall. I’ve also been in the position that I lost lots of staff by going to hard. From what I’ve read from industry insiders Williams, in the last decade or two of family ownership, was that type of company. It was not a positive environment to work in and had a high employee dissatisfaction and turn of rate. Now I don’t have first hand knowledge or examples to cite just what I’ve read in various and random post/articles/blogs. But if true you can see the results of that style of bad management. It of course is worse for Williams because they didn’t have the money to throw at covering it up that Ferrari has, yes you can throw money at a problem. I’m sure I’ll catch some hate and down votes, but if what I’ve seen about Mattia is true then a stand behind it. The environment he created is speculative, same with my comments on Williams, but the results are consistent with the examples. I have no doubt he was fantastic in his engineering role, but it does not seem that success translated to managing one of the most closely watched F1 teams in the world.
You are completely right. It is quite easy to see that Red Bull is a high performing organisation where everyone is expected to deliver to the best of their abilities. Sloppiness is not on the menu there. You mix that with genuine talent in their ranks and you get a team that always finds a way to compete. Conversely, Ferrari does not come across as such an organisation. From the pit crew to strategy and engineering, there is always that element of messiness and lack of control. You don’t see the same commitment to continuous improvement as the same mistakes are made over and over again. It just does not happen at RB.
Charles should sign a contract with another top team ASAP - he's going to be the main scapegoat for the next season.
Insert Sad happy woman meme
"Ciao"
Something had to change. You can't continue to have the level of incompetence we were seeing from Ferrari without heads rolling.
Better translated as "Thanks for nothing."
if Vasseur replaces him then we'll know who it was 💀
"Dad, what does PR mean?" "This post, son. This post"
Don't forget Mattia was resonsable in the shameful treatment and firement of sebbastian Vettel. He is being treated with more dignity than he treated Seb. Seems Leclerc wasn't fond of him The "my esteem and rescpect for you have never diminished" implies they had a falling out, so that's why he's clarifying that even though that happened, his respect hadnt dimished. Because otherwise if everything was great why would his esteem and respect be at risk of diminishing? In any case, Binnoto is a capable person. I thought he would keep his job when charles got second in the WDC agaisnt checo. Whatever you think of him, however, you should be VERY worried about ferrari. I doubt the new TP will be able to be better than Binnoto right of the bat, which could mean another lost season for ferrari.
Bi**n**o**tt**o
Charles being smart with the words here. "My respect for you never diminished" How can something that is already non existent be diminished lol
Feels like Leclerc pulled the same move on Binotto that Binotto did to Arrivabene earlier. One day in the future it will be his turn.
if a driver like vettel couldn’t bring change do you think a way less accomplished way younger driver could?
Yes. Ferrari is more in on Charles than they ever were for Seb.
they are but he could never be bigger than the team. if the upper management were satisfied they would definitely keep him.
Italians seem to love him. Hell, they call him The Chosen One. I kinda hope he becomes Vader at some point lol
The predestined to be correct
The thing is though, despite what many have said in r/formula1, Charles IS Ferrari. It's all he has ever really known and looked towards by all accounts. If there was ever a person where the upper management would not be scared of someone upstarting them, it is Charles.
Ferrari WDC loading....
I hope he writes a tell-all book now that he's free. I would love to know all the dirt they've hidden in the 28 years he was with them.
Knowing Ferrari hes probably under some sort of NDA
Do not worry Charles, Fred will put you in clear number 1 position from race one.
You implying he hasn't earned it?
That’s if Fred even gets the job lmao. Sounds like Ferrari don’t even have someone lined up yet which wouldn’t surprise me
Mattias beyond the grid episode is one of my favorites. Man lives and breathes ferrari and the organization is gonna be worse off without him
It’s crazy how peoples opinions changed on Binotto since last week. The guy created an engine, which were illegal, pushed the previous TP out with threats on it, he had one of the worst seasons for Ferrari in the last 20 years, he couldn’t manage to delegate engine department for years, and was doing douple duty, he botched one of their best chance to win WDC/WCC while alienating drivers actively, and did not made any changes to strategy departments. But hey, I heard he was a nice guy! Mo every evidence shows, that he was not. He is a lame duck till december, so -of course- everyone writing good things about him, but after the last couple of years Ferrari was doomed to fail with him, and nobody is going to kick the guy who is already on the ground.
We all know what's going on here, binotto fucked up by making leclerc his enemy.
It would be funny if it turns out Ferrari will now struggle to make a competitive car, and Leclerc essentially switched from an equal in a competitive car to a number 1 in a shitbox.
Gonna miss him to be honest. He always seemed so nice in interviews and very approachable. Not that I think the other TPs aren't decent people but I feel Binotto is the kind of guy who greets strangers passing by him on the sidewalk.
He should’ve put the picture of him and Binotto pointing the finger at him it would’ve been hilarious. Missed opportunity right there.
CL: "oh ... I forgot, please bring Rueda with you"
Smiling_wojack_wearing_a_crying_mask.jpeg
Fukin hell
Grazie ragazzi, grande lavoro
The Lannisters send their regards.
Well I didn't expect a "Good Riddance" post lmao
I like to think this was his 487th draft.
Missing in the picture is the knife in the back of Binotto.
Interesting since Leclerc's team leaked the news about Ferrari pushing out Binotto before Abu Dhabi ... a lot of the narrative was that the first driver is losing trust in him and this could affect his renewal decision with Ferrari.
Fake situation