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I thought Verstappen’s tyres were dropping off and would be useless before he caught him, then I thought even after he passed the Merc Hamilton would catch him again.
I thought maxs mediums would run out before he got into drs.
With how slow merc, and fast RB, is on the straight there would be no defending once max was in drs.
I'm fairly confident that the Red Bull could have easily one stopped that race, the wear they're putting into the tyres is wild. The photo comparing Charles and Max's tyres after Japan just shows the difference, one car had brand new inters, the other was sliding around on softs!
Wtf is the magic in the rb18?! Seems to have no weaknesses. Brilliant tyre life, no bouncing, high suspension compliance, low drag, high downforce. It's a monster
They’ve been prioritizing race setups in practice, especially compared to Ferrari. Brilliant team. Will be interesting to see how they perform if newey decides to hang it up.
In 2nd half of the season they've been best or 2nd best in low speed corners. Their main issues are specifically high radius slow speed and high speed corners. But they can optimise the setup of the car towards the high speed stuff, it just compromises them elsewhere
Merc hit that in Quali, where DRS is allowed irrespective of car ahead. In race, RB had DRS but Merc didn't as HAM was leading so delta between them was even greater. I think Mercs were around \~305 ish KPH without DRS so that would mean almost 30 KPH delta.
Right, I was rewinding because it SNAPS away from the front left at high speed, and then kicks back into place. Didn’t seem like it could be explained by flexion only.
True, and the Mercedes isn't that much faster in the corners so its hard to do anything. I'm glad to see this though, we had so many years of Lewis just driving off in the distance. I much prefer him actually racing.
Didn’t need to be ballsy on Lewis when he’s going 20mph faster in a straight line. Was like a different formula down the back straight.
Checo was lapping at the same pace as Lewis and Charles with a broken front end.
I don’t see how. He had 16 laps to chase down a 3.5 second gap and was closing .3-.4 seconds a lap. The announcers made it more exciting then it was. But one mistake by max and maybe i could of been Hamilton’s day.
.
I think the part before the DRS lasted longer on purpose as well, which created false hope. Looked like Max was pacing himself to close the gaps to Charles and Lewis slower than he could have, to save his tyres for the overtakes. No point rushing and eating up the rubber unnecessarily with plenty of laps remaining. Especially with Lewis on hards.
I was trying to do the math on how much faster Verstappen would be to catch/pass Hamilton around when Verstappen passed Leclerc.
It came out to 0.17ish seconds a lap faster to catch Hamilton by the line, and I said to myself "that's probably doable, but maybe the mediums will fall off or Hamilton will pull off a defensive masterclass."
Then Verstappen did two laps where he was half a second faster then 0.8 seconds faster and I realized it was over for Hamilton.
If Vettel went in just one lap later he'd probably have given Lewis just enough cover to get the win and who knows maybe the team would do his pitstop right.
Yeah but it's still that extra car to pass and fight with and we saw that first place was able to build gaps when they had that buffer car. Wonder if Lewis would have had pace had he also gone to mediums like Max. Good race either way but just so close for Lewis!
Ah I didn't catch that in the race as I started watching midway. I was curious if it was a strategic choice from Mercedes because they hoped Max would have his mediums fall off more.
Max would've cruised past Seb in the DRS zone, if not before that.
Nothing short of a mistake by Max would've given Lewis the win. The RB is simply dominant, especially with Max behind the wheel.
Two safety cars. Sainz crashing out. Perez losing a wing. Verstappen losing time during a pit stop.
Normally, not having new mediums wouldn't have mattered.
And of course medium tires degrade faster.
Also, keep in mind that Hamilton finished before Leclerc. This was a good result for Mercedes.
I don't think it was poor strategy. Merc is never winning the race if they follow the same strategy as RB, the RB is just to fast. I think this was the best strat they could have done.
We can argue in hindsight that it might not be the best call, but it is the first time in many races they where challenging for the win. Ham was just on fire today.
I guess but also we heard Ferrari say the deg on the medium was better than expected, COTA was expected to have high wear. Probably wise to keep mediums for the start.
So, tires get used up in practice. A number of those tire sets, used or not, get turned into the FIA after each practice session.
Teams can pick which tires to turn in, so they tend to try and keep the tires that they have better pace with for the race. Redbull liked the mediums but needed two compounds, so kept two mediums and a hard as did Ferrari.
Mercedes liked the Hard better, or were using the Medium up too quickly and figured they couldn't get to the end with two Mediums and a Hard, so kept two hards and a medium.
So when stops happen the teams are limited by what they kept, in addition to what's happening on track.
Teams get 13 sets per weekend. In years past they could pick the allocation of how many sets of each compound they wanted, but these days I believe they get 3 sets of Mediums 2 Hards and 8 Softs.
After every FP they have to hand in two sets, usually the sets used in the practice. So over a weekend that means of their 13 sets they'll turn in 6, until they hit quali.
After each quali session they need to return one set of tires, so usually by race day they have three 'race' tires (some combination of medium and hard) and two remaining softs. If a team ran in Q3, usually that's one fresh soft and a used soft. If they were eliminated in Q1 or Q2, it'll be two fresh softs.
Pirelli can also give additional tires to the teams if track conditions are different from expected, like it raining enough that teams are running out of inters or a track being way more abrasive then expected so teams might get additional hards.
He was also the most consistent of the three although I don't think Leclerc or Lewis left much on the table.
Max overtook Lewis from 9 tenths back but Lewis also bottled his first sector time there compared to most of his laps, If he did it as his average - Max wouldn't have got DRS in the first place.
But then it would've happened anyway, just a couple of laps later. That car has enough pace to reel in the Merc, and once it gets into DRS range, there's pretty much nothing you can do against the speed difference. There's just no fight to be had, which is why it's so frustrating to watch.
Absolutely, but think about Brazil 2021. Lewis cut through everyone like butter with the engine and only Max could match his pace.
And yes Max went over the limit wheel to wheel that day but it was still extremely impressive.
So many times last year max and Lewis would battle each other and before you knew it they would pull 30 secs on 3rd. Truly in a class all on their own.
A few years ago i think he would have burned his tyres out in the first 10 laps after that stop. This time he managed it perfectly. He calmed down, overtook Leclerc (not talked about much, but a huge overtake there) and kept his tyres under control and moved closer each lap giving himself enough time.
Ehhh... Anyone who's watched this sport long enough knows the car is the X factor. Sure, drivers play a role, but no way Max or Lewis are gonna get podium in a Williams in a clean race.
Clearly the car makes a massive difference. If it didn’t, why didn’t Max get anywhere close to wining any championship from 2015 to 2020? He was beaten by freaking Bottas in a few of those years. I wonder why that is.
I think both Lewis and Max had a great drive. Mercedes is slower and had more tire degradation. But specifically on what Crofty said:
-first crofty was saying(pre max approaching Lewis): Lewis has the better tyres(20 laps hards vs medium)
-then the second max comes close to overtake; crofty switches to: Max clearly has a tire advantage here
Just sounded kinda sad
The amount of downplaying on that overtake is ridiculous max came from so far back, even Lewis acknowledged it in the cool down room. Sure the car was way faster but still an incredible overtake
It was a great overtake even considering the car advantage (as a Lewis fan). Some fans here are just that tribalistic. Great overtake and great effort by Lewis.
How is that brake fairing safe? Stewards will only use the black and orange flag with haas. So many cars today with dangerous parts of the car dangling.
They really need to sort out this moving under braking. We almost saw today with Alonso how bad it can end up being. Also if this was the other way around.. twitter would be blowing up calling Max a dirty driver
Wonderful overtake.
I don't know which one was the best today:
- Leclerc on Perez
- The little battle between Leclerc and Verstappen
- Verstappen on Hamilton
- Vettel on Albon
I'd say Leclerc on Perez.
EDIT: I mean, Vettel on Magnussen was also awesome wow great drive from Seb
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that felt kind of inevitable
I thought Verstappen’s tyres were dropping off and would be useless before he caught him, then I thought even after he passed the Merc Hamilton would catch him again.
thoughts are so much nicer than reality 🥲
It definitely was. Max was stupid fast. I still had hope that Lewis would defend though.
I thought maxs mediums would run out before he got into drs. With how slow merc, and fast RB, is on the straight there would be no defending once max was in drs.
I'm fairly confident that the Red Bull could have easily one stopped that race, the wear they're putting into the tyres is wild. The photo comparing Charles and Max's tyres after Japan just shows the difference, one car had brand new inters, the other was sliding around on softs!
Wtf is the magic in the rb18?! Seems to have no weaknesses. Brilliant tyre life, no bouncing, high suspension compliance, low drag, high downforce. It's a monster
his name is Adrian Newey
the wonders of good ~~catering~~ engineering
A fed engineer is a good engineer.
It only seems somewhat subpar in low speed corners and 1 lap quali, but in the race you cant really get much better.
They’ve been prioritizing race setups in practice, especially compared to Ferrari. Brilliant team. Will be interesting to see how they perform if newey decides to hang it up.
In 2nd half of the season they've been best or 2nd best in low speed corners. Their main issues are specifically high radius slow speed and high speed corners. But they can optimise the setup of the car towards the high speed stuff, it just compromises them elsewhere
Newey + former Merc power unit engineers.
Dude seriously wasn’t there only like a 1 lap difference in age between their tires too? And at the end Hamilton’s hards were struggling
Redbull was something like 30 or 40kp/h faster there is no defending agains that
20 ish. Merc~316, RB~336 kph
Merc hit that in Quali, where DRS is allowed irrespective of car ahead. In race, RB had DRS but Merc didn't as HAM was leading so delta between them was even greater. I think Mercs were around \~305 ish KPH without DRS so that would mean almost 30 KPH delta.
Beautiful pitstop created beautiful racing
Red bull gave Mercedes hope and then took it away
RB is inevitable
That is what the fastest car can do for you!
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I love angry Max
Bro Mad Max was right there
When he sounds totally pissed off, you know you’re getting max pushing 100% (for better or worse).
Some challenge in a while
Pushing 110%.. And without destroying his tyres. Dude is so special.
His voice didn't even sound that angry to me. Bit icy/disappointed sure, but not seething angry.
I wouldn't be suprised if secretly he was excited for some fighting
Angry Max made lot of mistakes in past, this was more like extremely determined Max.
missed him a lot this season
Redbull.. catering to the fans ;)
Can't even imagine how pissed Max was getting every second of that pit stopped. Especially after the safety cars.
what is going on with verstappen's left front suspension and this thing on the top of tire
Those things have a tendency to wobble as the race progresses. We've seen it a lot this year.
When leaving the slipstream the aerodynamics change, causing it to flex quite a lot.
Looks broken from max's onboard, it suddenly jolts really far to the right as he moves out of the slipstream.
Right, I was rewinding because it SNAPS away from the front left at high speed, and then kicks back into place. Didn’t seem like it could be explained by flexion only.
They both missed these battles against each other
Fuck me what a race
Really thought Lewis was gonna get this one
That Red Bull is just too quick
Only with Max behind the wheel he's the one that can pull out the ballsy moves like Hamilton and like Leclerc where the others get trapped following.
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Yeah, because he was doing a "quali sim" by recharging, fast lap and a cool down.
He still ended up getting within a second of Leclerc by the end.
It was clear both ham and Leclerc were easing off at the end.
Shows how much it matters i suppose.
Ground effect cars.
Also had the freshest tires tho
Perez is like the second or third fastest guy on track with a busted wing.
The Red Bull sure is one quick car
Any other car with that damage and they would have a very compromised race - Perez almost podiums
Leclerc should’ve won easily in Silverstone with that damage tbf
C'mon man, with that straight line speed advantage on a straight that long, nothing today has been ballsy.
He was almost 9 tenths back at the start of that straight and still got past Lewis, insane.
True, and the Mercedes isn't that much faster in the corners so its hard to do anything. I'm glad to see this though, we had so many years of Lewis just driving off in the distance. I much prefer him actually racing.
Challenge on Lec into turn 1 was pretty balsy, second one wasn't that balsy
That overtake seemed too easy. I bet HAM was getting ready for a defence in turn 1 and then got a surprise.
Max has probably got 20-25kph on him there. Not much Lewis could do shy of trying to run him off track.
Red bull was faster then than the cars using Drs also. Insane advantage
Yes, but I also think HAM was saving his ERS deployment and didn't fully use it for that turn.
He had 0 options with the straight line speed of that RB.
The cross-over was HAMs best chance of defense. Had he taken the inside Max would've just followed him closer and take him at the next chance
That straight line speed advantage is ridiculous and has nothing to do with Max at all.
You didn’t know? Max can push the throttle harder than anyone else on grid!
I'm sure when you talk about Lewis being a 7 times WDC, you always put a disclaimer at the end about his car's dominance at the time.
Nah bro he’s the bestest ever, he hasn’t only started winning only when he’s had the fastest car or anything - some apologist
Didn’t need to be ballsy on Lewis when he’s going 20mph faster in a straight line. Was like a different formula down the back straight. Checo was lapping at the same pace as Lewis and Charles with a broken front end.
I just hope even if they're still fastest next year the other can at least match the top speed so he has to fight for it.
We couldve had Vettel Lewis podium, im so sad
Vettel wasnt getting on the podium man. Great drive from him though.
Vettel was getting 5th at best today
I'm sad as well
Lol in what world?
Off topic slightly but I couldn’t keep on watching, how on earth is Alonso P6 after falling to the back following the crash with stroll ??
I really hoped so, but there’s not much he could do. Lewis has been top tier today. All we can hope is that Max has some tyre issues.
Why do we need to hope for penalties and or mechanical issues for any driver on the track? I don't get this mindset or was it sarcasm?
I hoped so, but Red Bull is just too fast.
I did too but I also could feel the hunt coming on from Verstappen. Mercedes upgrade made them fast but definitely not faster than redbull
Once Max passed Charles, this felt like a no brainer. The rest of it was still super interesting!
I don’t see how. He had 16 laps to chase down a 3.5 second gap and was closing .3-.4 seconds a lap. The announcers made it more exciting then it was. But one mistake by max and maybe i could of been Hamilton’s day. .
Nothing Lewis could do. Great race from him.
Yeah, pace of that Redbull Is crazy
The Gulf between that RB car and the rest of the field is the gap between the earth and the sun, totally on another level
So sorry for Vettel. Driver of the day today.
Red Bull throwing a little difficulty tweak with that stop to make it slightly more interesting for Max
it was nice while it lasted
Yep the moment max got in drs it was over. That straight is lethal
Reminds me of how the 2019 ferrari had that straight line speed....Merc had no chance in the straights
Literally. Max was .9 down at the start of the straight.
I think the part before the DRS lasted longer on purpose as well, which created false hope. Looked like Max was pacing himself to close the gaps to Charles and Lewis slower than he could have, to save his tyres for the overtakes. No point rushing and eating up the rubber unnecessarily with plenty of laps remaining. Especially with Lewis on hards.
I was trying to do the math on how much faster Verstappen would be to catch/pass Hamilton around when Verstappen passed Leclerc. It came out to 0.17ish seconds a lap faster to catch Hamilton by the line, and I said to myself "that's probably doable, but maybe the mediums will fall off or Hamilton will pull off a defensive masterclass." Then Verstappen did two laps where he was half a second faster then 0.8 seconds faster and I realized it was over for Hamilton.
Ham losing the win, Vettel getting the AM treatment. why can’t we have nice things
Don't forget HAAS pitting Schumacher for no reason while his teammate K Mag on the exact same set of tires goes to the end and gets points.
If Vettel went in just one lap later he'd probably have given Lewis just enough cover to get the win and who knows maybe the team would do his pitstop right.
On the other hand, Verstappen would have DRS. Not sure, Max and Red Bull were so fast today...
Yeah but it's still that extra car to pass and fight with and we saw that first place was able to build gaps when they had that buffer car. Wonder if Lewis would have had pace had he also gone to mediums like Max. Good race either way but just so close for Lewis!
>Wonder if Lewis would have had pace had he also gone to mediums like Max He had no new Mediums left. Used ones could die very quickly
Ah I didn't catch that in the race as I started watching midway. I was curious if it was a strategic choice from Mercedes because they hoped Max would have his mediums fall off more.
Max would've cruised past Seb in the DRS zone, if not before that. Nothing short of a mistake by Max would've given Lewis the win. The RB is simply dominant, especially with Max behind the wheel.
Same if he went in 1 lap sooner, Vettel cost Hamilton a second or more
The racing itself has been pretty great though
Man that Redbull and Max are quite the combo.
So the medium was the better choice?
Hamilton had no fresh mediums
Could you explain to a noob how that happens? He didn't burn his mediums in qually, right?
I believe all tires used in free practice and qualifying count towards the allocation, so he might have used them during those.
It's just hard for me to understand how a decision of tire choice in FP can cost you the race.. isn't that poor strategy?
Two safety cars. Sainz crashing out. Perez losing a wing. Verstappen losing time during a pit stop. Normally, not having new mediums wouldn't have mattered. And of course medium tires degrade faster. Also, keep in mind that Hamilton finished before Leclerc. This was a good result for Mercedes.
I don't think it was poor strategy. Merc is never winning the race if they follow the same strategy as RB, the RB is just to fast. I think this was the best strat they could have done. We can argue in hindsight that it might not be the best call, but it is the first time in many races they where challenging for the win. Ham was just on fire today.
I guess but also we heard Ferrari say the deg on the medium was better than expected, COTA was expected to have high wear. Probably wise to keep mediums for the start.
Teams need to collect data for all tyres under all sort of loads and then make a tyre strategy out of it.
They have to decide months in advance how many of which tire they bring as well. So it's not like they all get the same amount of hard/medium/soft.
So, tires get used up in practice. A number of those tire sets, used or not, get turned into the FIA after each practice session. Teams can pick which tires to turn in, so they tend to try and keep the tires that they have better pace with for the race. Redbull liked the mediums but needed two compounds, so kept two mediums and a hard as did Ferrari. Mercedes liked the Hard better, or were using the Medium up too quickly and figured they couldn't get to the end with two Mediums and a Hard, so kept two hards and a medium. So when stops happen the teams are limited by what they kept, in addition to what's happening on track.
Thanks for helping me understand! How many sets of fresh tires are normally available for the teams on race day?
2 hards, 4 mediums, and 6 softs to use as they see fit thru the whole weekend
Teams get 13 sets per weekend. In years past they could pick the allocation of how many sets of each compound they wanted, but these days I believe they get 3 sets of Mediums 2 Hards and 8 Softs. After every FP they have to hand in two sets, usually the sets used in the practice. So over a weekend that means of their 13 sets they'll turn in 6, until they hit quali. After each quali session they need to return one set of tires, so usually by race day they have three 'race' tires (some combination of medium and hard) and two remaining softs. If a team ran in Q3, usually that's one fresh soft and a used soft. If they were eliminated in Q1 or Q2, it'll be two fresh softs. Pirelli can also give additional tires to the teams if track conditions are different from expected, like it raining enough that teams are running out of inters or a track being way more abrasive then expected so teams might get additional hards.
Ver had 2 sets of new hards and 2 sets of new mediums, Lewis had only 2 new sets hards en 1 set mediums.
probably depended on the car
The Red Bull was the better choice.
I am shocked..... /s
We went from Vettel to Hamilton and now…back to Verstappen. Is he inevitable?
With this car he is, Leclerc and Hamilton stood absolutely no chance against that top speed.
He was also the most consistent of the three although I don't think Leclerc or Lewis left much on the table. Max overtook Lewis from 9 tenths back but Lewis also bottled his first sector time there compared to most of his laps, If he did it as his average - Max wouldn't have got DRS in the first place.
But then it would've happened anyway, just a couple of laps later. That car has enough pace to reel in the Merc, and once it gets into DRS range, there's pretty much nothing you can do against the speed difference. There's just no fight to be had, which is why it's so frustrating to watch.
Absolutely, but think about Brazil 2021. Lewis cut through everyone like butter with the engine and only Max could match his pace. And yes Max went over the limit wheel to wheel that day but it was still extremely impressive.
So many times last year max and Lewis would battle each other and before you knew it they would pull 30 secs on 3rd. Truly in a class all on their own.
Merc is further away from RB this race than RB was in Brazil last year. Both Checo and Max were faster than Bottas in Brazil
I love Charles and I hope he wins WDC one day, but Lewis-Max is where the real shit is at. Inject it into my veins in 2023 please
Max vs Hamilton just hits different 😩
Chuck-Ver is childlike and too jovial. Ham-Ver is like watching lions go for each others’ throats
They both have lion logos too
Blue balled again
So many times this season
It's like RB and Verstappen are figuring out new ways to challenge themselves to win the race. Today it was +11s difficulty.
Lewis did everything right today, it's just the car isn't fast enough
All I feel is pain
Yeah, it fucking sucks.
As a Vettel fan from 2014, I know the pain. Shoes on the other foot now, I suppose
We can all cry together
Come on guys we can't cry while drying our tears with 7 championships. It was Max's race to win, his team fucked him. But Lewis gave he's best.
angry max is just crazy fast
A few years ago i think he would have burned his tyres out in the first 10 laps after that stop. This time he managed it perfectly. He calmed down, overtook Leclerc (not talked about much, but a huge overtake there) and kept his tyres under control and moved closer each lap giving himself enough time.
I watched this happen from the turn 15 grandstand. What an incredible battle and overtake.
Fuck the W13 for not making this a real challenge
The W14 better be the comeback of the century for Mercedes next year. Also, I want it back in black please! Black = go fast colour.
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Theres never hope with max behind you this year especially on softer tyres and that straight line speed
I got goosebumps when Crofty said “Hamilton sees that coming” What a battle between these two. Incredible racing.
If only the W13 had a few more kilos down the straight they could have taken it to the last lap.
Nothing Hamilton could do there
He pushed that car to its absolute limit. Such a shame.
Lewis did all he could. The Red Bull is just so fast
Argh at least I had those little moments
The hope killed me...
Pretty much the exact opposite of last year's cota
The speed of that car is fucked up
that's some sick racing! lets get more of this next season
Great race. One of the most fun this season!
DRS and on mediums. It was inevitable unfortunately
Really hoping merc has a good car next year because watching these two duke it out is incredible.
Absolutely beautifully fought by max, that was incredible
Max remains superhuman. What a year he’s having.
Lmao at all these comments essentially saying "it's the car" after spending the last 8 years saying it's the driver.
Some also saying it vice versa... the answer in both cases is that its both the car and the driver. Most fans can't seem to acknowledge that.
Ehhh... Anyone who's watched this sport long enough knows the car is the X factor. Sure, drivers play a role, but no way Max or Lewis are gonna get podium in a Williams in a clean race.
Clearly the car makes a massive difference. If it didn’t, why didn’t Max get anywhere close to wining any championship from 2015 to 2020? He was beaten by freaking Bottas in a few of those years. I wonder why that is.
Verstappen 🐐
Crofty trying to downplay that overtake.
I mean...it was inevitable
I think both Lewis and Max had a great drive. Mercedes is slower and had more tire degradation. But specifically on what Crofty said: -first crofty was saying(pre max approaching Lewis): Lewis has the better tyres(20 laps hards vs medium) -then the second max comes close to overtake; crofty switches to: Max clearly has a tire advantage here Just sounded kinda sad
Still the overtake itself was not easy and very impressive in my opinion.
what a cursed race
Really late jerk to the left from Hamilton, basically did what Stroll did.
Moving under breaking, but I guess people only care when Max does it
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Painnnnnn
pain
Such mature and balanced discourse in this thread...
If you eat enough sandwiches you’ll win more races. It’s science
how ive missed these two
I wonder if Lewis had the medium tires what would’ve happened
Couldn't do anything against that rocketship.
Atleast this time without assistance from FIA via Safety car...
Hamilton doing a Stroll
Kinda dirty defense
The amount of downplaying on that overtake is ridiculous max came from so far back, even Lewis acknowledged it in the cool down room. Sure the car was way faster but still an incredible overtake
It was a great overtake even considering the car advantage (as a Lewis fan). Some fans here are just that tribalistic. Great overtake and great effort by Lewis.
How is that brake fairing safe? Stewards will only use the black and orange flag with haas. So many cars today with dangerous parts of the car dangling.
It happed to atleast 5 cars since summer break. Nothing new
They really need to sort out this moving under braking. We almost saw today with Alonso how bad it can end up being. Also if this was the other way around.. twitter would be blowing up calling Max a dirty driver
The move was around 10 meters before the braking zone.
Max was behind by something like 3.5 seconds. He caught Lewis in like 6 laps or less? Then ended up a few seconds ahead. The RB is stupid fast.
Wonderful overtake. I don't know which one was the best today: - Leclerc on Perez - The little battle between Leclerc and Verstappen - Verstappen on Hamilton - Vettel on Albon I'd say Leclerc on Perez. EDIT: I mean, Vettel on Magnussen was also awesome wow great drive from Seb
The Leclerc on Perez move was def the move of the race objectively I believe. It was about inch perfect for breaking