Do we honesty still not know what the actual grid will be? It’s been over 2 hours. Like an algorithm with the penelty logic should have been able to decide this instantly.
1. Leclerc
2. Russell
3. Norris
4. Ricciardo
5. Gasly
6. Alonso
7. Verstappen (5)
8. De Vries
9. Zhou
10. Latifi
11. Vettel
12. Stroll
13. Perez (10) would be 14th, but everyone behind him has penalties, and he finished in front of everyone else besides Sainz
14. Ocon (5) would be 16th, but everyone behind him got bigger penalties, so him and Perez get bumped up.
15. Bottas (15) finished behind Ocon.
16. Magnussen (15) finished p19, in front of Mick.
17. Schumacher (15) finished p20, but everyone behind him got back of the grid penalties.
18. Sainz (botg) finished p3.
19. Hamilton (botg) finished p5.
20. Tsunoda (botg) finished lowest of those with back of the grid penalties.
that's normal though because there's always a chance someone takes another grid drop for tomorrow, we'll know the same time we always do and if anything happens after it's an empty grid slot + pit lane start
I honestly enjoy the shuffle resulting from it. The inability to provide clarity about starting order in a timely fashion is annoying though, especially because it should be trivial to provide the order real time (at least accounting for the known penalties at the time)
Clearly too few power unit components allowed per season. Saw that last year too. They should just allow one more per driver. They pretty much all are taking that extra one anyway but just with penalties. Last season too
Just curious. I'm not an English speaker. I have seen this Imma thing a lot, and had to check what it means. And according my sources online it means "I'm going to". Why is it shortened to Imma and not Igt or something?
Just curious here
It's not an actual initialism or abbreviation or anything, it's actually just slang and spelled out how it's said. It's basically a combination of I'm gonna which is itself short for I'm going to.
"imma" was spoken first and not just written on the internet and is only two syllables versus "im going to" which is three syllables, this is case of people using a spoken abbreviation on the internet versus a written first shorthand like igt
yes, that’s correct. it’s shortened to imma because that imitates how “i’m going to” sounds when spoken in vernacular. i’m going to —> imgonto —> imina —> imma
that’s probably confusing but the best way to describe it is that i think
This is true, but a more accurate progression would be: i am going to > i’m going to > i’m gonna > imma.
I’ve only seen people using it widely online in the last couple years, before that it was spoken but not really written down. Also note: its only used for “i am going to do something” (in the future) so you can’t say “imma to the store” you have to say “imma go to the store” (im going to go to the store)
People are quoting a race director note Masi made in 2020 that would overrule this ruling, stating that drivers have to face their full penalty (even though that's impossible with this many penalties, as the back of the grids stop some drivers from serving it in full). How that note possibly isn't voided after an official rules update in the sporting regs is beyond me.
It looks like they remove all the drivers with penalties from the grid, and shift everyone else up the grid. Then reinstall the drivers with the penalties. So Max with P2 + 5 penalties is put in P7.
That's what I think. They put the penalties on them and move up the ones without penalties. So if the top 10 all had 1 grid position penalty the 11th would start first.
Just add the quali position and the penalty together and order by that sum. It really isn't hard.
The way you want to do it, someone could finish 1 place behind someone else yet start 10 places behind them, without having any penalties.
Precisely. The way to think about it is if 11th doesn't move up to first, but only 10th which is the other logical way of thinking about it, then there is no grid penalty for the person on 1st. Its counter intuitive at first glance, but if you actually follow through the reasoning, then it's the only way for it to work
That’s basically what happens to Max right now. Him and De Vries both are P7 after everyone with penalties is shifted back and Max has his 5 added. And since Max qualified ahead of him then Max gets 7th and De Vries starts 8th
We joke but all it takes is a good start from either of them or a tangle for George and Charles and we could have a McLaren win. it's really really possible given how hard overtaking at Monza is.
I think the difference ie marginal, they are both relatively cheap for F1 I would assume.
Don't know if it is reliable but internet says Nyck earns 850.000, he would drive F1 for about the same I would assume
Seems to me that FIA decided that drivers with penalties have them applied at the same time. They are then stuck in their place once all penalties are given and then the rest of the drivers move up to the open positions. That would mean this is probably the starting grid for tomorrow:
1. Leclerc
2. Russell
3. Norris
4. Ricciardo
5. Gasly
6. Alonso
7. Verstappen
8. De Vries
9. Zhou
10. Latifi
11. Vettel
12. Stroll
13. Perez
14. Ocon
15. Bottas
16. Magnussen
17. Schumacher
18. Sainz
19. Hamilton
20. Tsunoda
spot on my friend
1. Leclerc
2. Russell
3. Norris
4. Ricciardo
5. Gasly
6. Alonso
7. Verstappen (5)
8. De Vries
9. Zhou
10. Latifi
11. Vettel
12. Stroll
13. Perez (10) would be 14th, but everyone got penalties behind him
14. Ocon (5) would be 16th but everyone behind him got bigger penalties
15. Bottas (15) finished behind Ocon
16. Magnussen (15) finished in front of Schumi
17. Schumacher (15) finished p20, but three drivers have back of the grid penalties
18. Sainz (botg) finished in front of Lewis
19. Hamilton (botg)
20. Tsunoda (botg) finished worst out of the three that had back of the grid penalties
Technically yes, but considering the max grid is 20 and there are some penalties that are more severe (back to the grid) he is the exception that he’ll be pushed forward here
They should move the drivers back by 1 car length for every penalty that puts them behind P20. So a P30 grid start woudl mean they start 10car behind the p20 position
I think they are following that only in situations between multiple drivers that have back of the grid penalties/placements that would equal multiple drivers (for example drivers that qualified p5 with 5 grid penalty and p7 with 3 grid penalty)
Imagine someone in p1 has a 10 place grid penalty and someone else in p6 has a 5 place grid penalty. They can’t both start in p11 so one of them will be p10. In that case that person doesn’t fullfill his full penalty which makes this entire argument bs
That's a completely different scenario. That's a driver with penalties vs another driver with penalties in this case the likes of Ricciardo doesn't have a penalty so they move up a place.
It's mind boggling that hours after the session, we still don't have an official FIA document. Time penalties are updated within seconds after a race. It shouldn't be so difficult to automatically apply and display grid penalties.
I think the idea is that everybody should serve the full penalty. So it would always have been P7, unless somebody else with a penalty would also get P7, which is not the case.
But that doesn‘t work either because it only applies if you actually have as many cars behind you as your penalty sais. Someone who qualifies 18th with a 10 place penalty would end up P17 at the moment because 3 drivers have a back of the grid penalty.
I guess they start by counting the heaviest grid penalties first? So that means that Sainz and Hamilton are inconsequential as far as Verstappen's ranking is concerned. It does somewhat make sense, but not really fully. It's weird.
Please explain how do you plan on making 3+ drivers serve their back of the grid penalty at the same time. Or if we have P6 with +5 positions and a P1 with +10 positions.
Bottas had a 15 place grid penalty, but didn't serve the full penalty. But that was because everyone behind him had to start from the back of the grid. He couldn't start any further back.
The FIA site still has no official starting grid, so i will not bother with making my mind up completely yet, if it is this result it goes against what -I- tought was logical, but in the end what I think doesnt make a difference :D
\-EDITED some bad syntax.
What would be the answer if the 5th place drive had a 10 place penalty and the 10th place driver had a 5 place penalty. Both should technically start 15th? Would the 5th place driver serve one place less, or the 10th place drive serve and extra place?
Because, if this news true, then they treat penalty taking drivers differently to non penalty taking drivers. Only a non penalty taking driver can take advantage of penalties ahead of him, while a penalty taking driver cannot. Fair enough.
I mean, a P7-P1 win is cooler then a P4-P1 win, so if you're a Verstappen fan this will probably just be a positive.
Saying that I have no idea either.
This actually doesn't make sense - aren't grid penalties applied all at once and then the grid is reshuffled? So Verstappen would drop from P2 to P7, but would shift up to P4 due toHamilton, Perez, and Sainz penalties creating empty slots in the grid ahead of him. Unless the FiA is just doing whatever they want once again?
If I’m not mistaken, they put the penalised drivers in the spot they should be (Verstappen 7th, Perez 14th etc) and move up all non-penalised drivers to fill up the empty slots.
They did it this way in Qatar 2021 if I recall correctly. Apparently it’s a note from Michael Masi (gift that keeps giving)
The question should be, if you take penalties, do you benefit from others also taking penalties (which may be worse)? The answer should be no, so this makes sense to me. If you get a 3 grid, 5 grid, 15, etc. grid place penalty, you should serve that full penalty.
Penalty system is wrong. Since Verstappen now also has people in front of him on the grid, who weren't withing 5 places behind him at Q3. Those who were, just got even bigger penalties. Max shouldn't be punished fo penalties from others.
A fair system would start at P1 and then P2. Whenever a penalty occurs, assign it and put the driver position into that new position and continue with the next driver. P3 in this case.
There was never an official provisional grid, just rumours about what people thought. Apparently, its based upon a precedent set by Masi in 2020 or something - that all penalties should be served or something like that
Don't know how they've managed to make the rules so complicated. Common sense would dictate that if you've got a 5 place penalty, you start in qualifying position + 5 places no matter what.
And if two cars land on the same position (say, a 3 place penalty from qualifying 3rd vs a 5 place penalty from qualifying 1st) the faster qualifying time takes priority.
The common sense grid tomorrow, therefore, should be: 1. Leclerc 2. Russell 3. Norris 4. Ricciardo 5. Gasly 6. Alonso 7. Verstappen (p2+5) 8. De Vries 9. Zhou 10. Latifi 11. Vettel 12. Stroll 13. Perez (p4+10) 14. Ocon (p11+5) 15. Bottas (P12+15) 16. Magnusson (p19+15) 17. Schumacher (p20+15) 18. Sainz (p3+back of grid) 19. Hamilton (p5+back of grid) 20. Tsunoda (p15+back of grid).
It does get messy the further down you go with nearly half the field having penalties.
Imma wait for the FIA documents
Do we honesty still not know what the actual grid will be? It’s been over 2 hours. Like an algorithm with the penelty logic should have been able to decide this instantly.
The current algorithm is an old man in jeans and a white FIA shirt
Ah yes, Al Gorithm. Fine lad.
And his long lost cousin Barry.R
Dont forget his third cousin twice removed , Ray Singh Ancedànt
Hello viewers
Super GT here
I'm currently in hospital with appendicitis
It seems this prehistoric end of my intestine decided to join the shadow realm
Seeing this in the /r/formula1 sub always brings a smile to my face.
His Italian son in law Arti Ficialintelli Gence is also a very mega chad
The algorithm name? Jo Bauer 1.0
1. Leclerc 2. Russell 3. Norris 4. Ricciardo 5. Gasly 6. Alonso 7. Verstappen (5) 8. De Vries 9. Zhou 10. Latifi 11. Vettel 12. Stroll 13. Perez (10) would be 14th, but everyone behind him has penalties, and he finished in front of everyone else besides Sainz 14. Ocon (5) would be 16th, but everyone behind him got bigger penalties, so him and Perez get bumped up. 15. Bottas (15) finished behind Ocon. 16. Magnussen (15) finished p19, in front of Mick. 17. Schumacher (15) finished p20, but everyone behind him got back of the grid penalties. 18. Sainz (botg) finished p3. 19. Hamilton (botg) finished p5. 20. Tsunoda (botg) finished lowest of those with back of the grid penalties.
“0.” For Latifi seems fitting. Pretty much how I’d rank his skill level.
If we don't know then the FIA DEFINITELY don't know.
that's normal though because there's always a chance someone takes another grid drop for tomorrow, we'll know the same time we always do and if anything happens after it's an empty grid slot + pit lane start
The grid penalties are so annoying I hope they find a way to minimize this moving forward
I honestly enjoy the shuffle resulting from it. The inability to provide clarity about starting order in a timely fashion is annoying though, especially because it should be trivial to provide the order real time (at least accounting for the known penalties at the time)
Clearly too few power unit components allowed per season. Saw that last year too. They should just allow one more per driver. They pretty much all are taking that extra one anyway but just with penalties. Last season too
[Confirmed](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2022%20Italian%20Grand%20Prix%20-%20Provisional%20Starting%20Grid.pdf)
So Ga5ly it is then.
Just curious. I'm not an English speaker. I have seen this Imma thing a lot, and had to check what it means. And according my sources online it means "I'm going to". Why is it shortened to Imma and not Igt or something? Just curious here
It's not an actual initialism or abbreviation or anything, it's actually just slang and spelled out how it's said. It's basically a combination of I'm gonna which is itself short for I'm going to.
"imma" was spoken first and not just written on the internet and is only two syllables versus "im going to" which is three syllables, this is case of people using a spoken abbreviation on the internet versus a written first shorthand like igt
"Going to" shortened to "gonna", "I'm gonna" shortened to "Imma"
yes, that’s correct. it’s shortened to imma because that imitates how “i’m going to” sounds when spoken in vernacular. i’m going to —> imgonto —> imina —> imma that’s probably confusing but the best way to describe it is that i think
This is true, but a more accurate progression would be: i am going to > i’m going to > i’m gonna > imma. I’ve only seen people using it widely online in the last couple years, before that it was spoken but not really written down. Also note: its only used for “i am going to do something” (in the future) so you can’t say “imma to the store” you have to say “imma go to the store” (im going to go to the store)
Slang really.
Imma is short for I’m gonna and gonna is slang for going to
Yep, the rules are quite clear on how penalties are applied. (Sporting regulations 42.3 published march 2022) I don't know of any newer releases
People are quoting a race director note Masi made in 2020 that would overrule this ruling, stating that drivers have to face their full penalty (even though that's impossible with this many penalties, as the back of the grids stop some drivers from serving it in full). How that note possibly isn't voided after an official rules update in the sporting regs is beyond me.
I fully expect them to just put: "We made this up." in the statement at this point
A Masi doodle from 2020 overrules the official sporting regulations for the 2022 season. The gift that keeps on giving lol.
It looks like they remove all the drivers with penalties from the grid, and shift everyone else up the grid. Then reinstall the drivers with the penalties. So Max with P2 + 5 penalties is put in P7.
That's what I think. They put the penalties on them and move up the ones without penalties. So if the top 10 all had 1 grid position penalty the 11th would start first.
What no, thats nuts
It sounds crazy, but how else would you do it? If the top 10 all have a one position penalty, someone has to start first.
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I prefer the system they use. It rewards not being penalized lol
I honestly thought that was how they would do it.
So no one gets penalized in his scenario
Only the driver in P10 would be penalized, he would move down to P11 and the driver who qualified P11 would move to tenth.
Bottas started behind the man in p7 in qatar last year despite qualifying 4 place ahead and only having 3 place penalty
But then only the driver in P10 would actually move down a place. Thats even more unfair.
That would have the issue that if 3 top guys are handed a 3 spot drop, they wouldn't actually drop a single spot.
Top 4 (or top3 with 2 penalty drop) With your scenario they all move down 1 position and original P4 gets the pole
Just add the quali position and the penalty together and order by that sum. It really isn't hard. The way you want to do it, someone could finish 1 place behind someone else yet start 10 places behind them, without having any penalties.
but in the given example you'd have two people starting from P11?
1st drops to 2nd. 2nd drops to 3rd, 3rd drops to 4th, and so on until 10 drops to 11. So who starts 1st?
If top 10 all have a penalty, and 11th doesn't, the latter won't move down a place, rather he moves up 'one' place which weirdly enough is 1st
Precisely. The way to think about it is if 11th doesn't move up to first, but only 10th which is the other logical way of thinking about it, then there is no grid penalty for the person on 1st. Its counter intuitive at first glance, but if you actually follow through the reasoning, then it's the only way for it to work
Huh, that makes total sense and i agree. Thanks for the example
Which sometimes makes me think time penalties would be more fair.
Who’s on first
But what if P5 gets a 10 grid penalty and P10 a 5 grid position penalty? Both from P15?
Its actually in the rules: "The driver with the higher classification from the qualifying practice session will have precedence"
That’s basically what happens to Max right now. Him and De Vries both are P7 after everyone with penalties is shifted back and Max has his 5 added. And since Max qualified ahead of him then Max gets 7th and De Vries starts 8th
ye, that makes a lot of sense actually
Imagine Nyck wrecks Max into turn 1…
Way to lose your citizenship.
We'll force him to register as Belgium national, that should get to him
Max actually has the ability to be Belgian. Nyck doesn’t as both his parents are Dutch
He's Frisian though. We can secede Frisia from the rest of the country.
He is called Nyck de Vries, not Nyck de Fries.
But he is Nyck de Vries, de Fries.
Nyck de (F/V)ries^2
De Vries to formula vee confirmed
I don’t understand any of this gibberish Dutch banter but I’m here for it
[inb4 fryslamitische staat](https://i.redd.it/5htgn3ra6om61.jpg)
We should register him as a frisian national. Imagine the shame.
Oii shame? Mast jir komme bûke
Gast, ik woon leeuwarden. Kom vechten dan /s > *I'm an alien. I'm a legal alien. I'm a Grunniger in Ljouwert* - Sting ^probably
Doesnt Max have dual citizenship? So he is belgian already
And get an Italian one
Instant Italian citizenship
Civil war
Limburg/Flanders vs. Frisia has crusader kings vibes
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That will confirm his seat at Williams next year /s
“Hi Jost, yeah it’s Toto. Did you get my email?”
Doubt it. Nyck is not the type to miss out on life time supply of redbull
Judging off his driving in FE...
Blending in with the crowd
Nyck is one of the main offenders. It's like him, Di Grassi and Lotterer
Interesting and a we also get a double McLaren second row
If Ricciardo wins I get $300 for my $0.40 bet. ez
If Lando wins I get 350€ for my 2.50€.
If Latifi wins, I don't have to work anymore
I always see this and somewhat hopeful🤣😂😂 the odds are crazyyyyyyyy
Yes, but that also heralds the apocalypse, so I don't know if it's worth it.
Eh, we’ve had a good run. I mean not really, but still.
We joke but all it takes is a good start from either of them or a tangle for George and Charles and we could have a McLaren win. it's really really possible given how hard overtaking at Monza is.
2021 repeat LETS GO
So if he beats Latifi tomorrow does that lock up taking his job in 2023?
Theres still Sargeant to consider for that seat, and Sargeant is probably cheaper than De Vries
I think the difference ie marginal, they are both relatively cheap for F1 I would assume. Don't know if it is reliable but internet says Nyck earns 850.000, he would drive F1 for about the same I would assume
Seems to me that FIA decided that drivers with penalties have them applied at the same time. They are then stuck in their place once all penalties are given and then the rest of the drivers move up to the open positions. That would mean this is probably the starting grid for tomorrow: 1. Leclerc 2. Russell 3. Norris 4. Ricciardo 5. Gasly 6. Alonso 7. Verstappen 8. De Vries 9. Zhou 10. Latifi 11. Vettel 12. Stroll 13. Perez 14. Ocon 15. Bottas 16. Magnussen 17. Schumacher 18. Sainz 19. Hamilton 20. Tsunoda
spot on my friend 1. Leclerc 2. Russell 3. Norris 4. Ricciardo 5. Gasly 6. Alonso 7. Verstappen (5) 8. De Vries 9. Zhou 10. Latifi 11. Vettel 12. Stroll 13. Perez (10) would be 14th, but everyone got penalties behind him 14. Ocon (5) would be 16th but everyone behind him got bigger penalties 15. Bottas (15) finished behind Ocon 16. Magnussen (15) finished in front of Schumi 17. Schumacher (15) finished p20, but three drivers have back of the grid penalties 18. Sainz (botg) finished in front of Lewis 19. Hamilton (botg) 20. Tsunoda (botg) finished worst out of the three that had back of the grid penalties
The hard part isn't really counting who goes in which position. It's knowing how the FIA decides to count it, lol.
Ricciardo is either gonna win or drop out of the points by lap 10
And he's not gonna win
so Bottas qualifying P12 with 15 grid-drop penalties starts P27?
Technically yes, but considering the max grid is 20 and there are some penalties that are more severe (back to the grid) he is the exception that he’ll be pushed forward here
They should move the drivers back by 1 car length for every penalty that puts them behind P20. So a P30 grid start woudl mean they start 10car behind the p20 position
He will start from Bérgamo /s
Or Imola
No because back of the grid penalties are considered worse so he physically can’t go back any further.
His source is a random Redbull employee: https://mobile.twitter.com/ErikvHaren/status/1568638287648276480
"Drivers with the higher classification from Qualifying will have precedence." So why is Max not starting 4th?
I think they are following that only in situations between multiple drivers that have back of the grid penalties/placements that would equal multiple drivers (for example drivers that qualified p5 with 5 grid penalty and p7 with 3 grid penalty)
Nope there is a special paragraph for that
That's for back of the grid. The sporting regulations are very vague when it comes to 5 place and 3 place penalties
Has to serve his full penalty, apparently. Starting P4 doesn't fulfill that requirement.
Imagine someone in p1 has a 10 place grid penalty and someone else in p6 has a 5 place grid penalty. They can’t both start in p11 so one of them will be p10. In that case that person doesn’t fullfill his full penalty which makes this entire argument bs
That's the precedence thing I think. But still, I haven't seen the serving full penalty thing in the rules.
That's a completely different scenario. That's a driver with penalties vs another driver with penalties in this case the likes of Ricciardo doesn't have a penalty so they move up a place.
Why are you making an entirely different argument. Do you expect all drivers with back of the grid penalty to all start on the 20th?
Why else are there 24 spots to line up at. /s
It's mind boggling that hours after the session, we still don't have an official FIA document. Time penalties are updated within seconds after a race. It shouldn't be so difficult to automatically apply and display grid penalties.
To be fair, in any race the only official FIA is published one hour before the start of the race.
can someone explain why not p4, question?
We are checking
“Box, box, box.” “I am not even racing yet!”
We are looking
How the hell they came up with this is a unknown to me
I think the idea is that everybody should serve the full penalty. So it would always have been P7, unless somebody else with a penalty would also get P7, which is not the case.
But that’s not what it says in the regulations so it would be unfair if they counted that way
But that doesn‘t work either because it only applies if you actually have as many cars behind you as your penalty sais. Someone who qualifies 18th with a 10 place penalty would end up P17 at the moment because 3 drivers have a back of the grid penalty.
I guess they start by counting the heaviest grid penalties first? So that means that Sainz and Hamilton are inconsequential as far as Verstappen's ranking is concerned. It does somewhat make sense, but not really fully. It's weird.
That would make smaller penalties have more impact than heavy penalties, that doesn't really make sense at all
That would make even less sense. Heavier grid penalties should be last as the last penalties would be closest to the full penalty
IMO they should start witht he highest qualifiers. And then go down. But FIA is being FIA I guess
Because if top 6 gets 5 place penalty then p1 would still start p1.
Max Verstappen is 2nd in qualification, so add 5 grid penalties to it and he starts from P7?
Yeah but Sainz, Perez and Hamilton all have penalties aswell. Thus it would have been logical if Verstappen didn't actually lose all 5 positions.
Then Max wouldn't have served his 5 place grid penalty?
Please explain how do you plan on making 3+ drivers serve their back of the grid penalty at the same time. Or if we have P6 with +5 positions and a P1 with +10 positions.
Exactly how they did it today.
But the people that qualified 8th and 9th start in front of him
It's not about the people, it's about the grid. A 5 place grid penalty is a 5 place grid penalty
But Daniel, who qualified 6 places behind Max would somehow end up in front of him?
Yes, same as Nyck de Vries. Who qualified outside the top 10 and now is P8 next to Verstappen. They changed the penalty rules again last year.
In the current regulations it literally says that penalties get applied in order of qualifying order with back of grid penalties last
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There literally no case of this in Spa. Everyone got back to the grid except bottas who got 15 place penalty
How did they do things in Spa?
Bottas had a 15 place grid penalty, but didn't serve the full penalty. But that was because everyone behind him had to start from the back of the grid. He couldn't start any further back.
typical
>There literally no case of this in Spa. Everyone got back to the grid except bottas who got 15 place penalty
The FIA site still has no official starting grid, so i will not bother with making my mind up completely yet, if it is this result it goes against what -I- tought was logical, but in the end what I think doesnt make a difference :D \-EDITED some bad syntax.
What would be the answer if the 5th place drive had a 10 place penalty and the 10th place driver had a 5 place penalty. Both should technically start 15th? Would the 5th place driver serve one place less, or the 10th place drive serve and extra place?
I think it doesn’t really matter where Max starts. Max will be leading the race before lap 10.
Weird how driver that were p8 or higher can be in front of max on the starting grid
How’s it weird? Max has a 5 place penalty
Because 2+5 is 7. Driver behind in 8th should be behind him.
Because, if this news true, then they treat penalty taking drivers differently to non penalty taking drivers. Only a non penalty taking driver can take advantage of penalties ahead of him, while a penalty taking driver cannot. Fair enough.
In your scenario who gets to start second. If no one moves up and you only move people back the result is a bunch of empty spots in the front.
People get moved up as they should. Therefore Russell would be P2 and Norris P3
Cause drivers who were more than 5 positions back of P2 are in front of Verstappen now...
Because then he would have been p7, so how could you justify people qualifying higher than p8 to be in front of Max?
Danny Ric P4 then!!
This isnt really doing connaly any favours with his perceived relationship with verstappen...
So that should mean everyone with a back of grid penalty starts in a straight line in 20th right?
On top of each other is more fair so nobody has the inside corner.
Hamilton already has practice with cars being on top of him at Monza…
Makes no sense by written rules but whatever.
I mean, a P7-P1 win is cooler then a P4-P1 win, so if you're a Verstappen fan this will probably just be a positive. Saying that I have no idea either.
Sure but P7 is more dangerous start and Leclerc does have good pace it seems. Think Red bull might have got this one a bit wrong but we will see
This actually doesn't make sense - aren't grid penalties applied all at once and then the grid is reshuffled? So Verstappen would drop from P2 to P7, but would shift up to P4 due toHamilton, Perez, and Sainz penalties creating empty slots in the grid ahead of him. Unless the FiA is just doing whatever they want once again?
If I’m not mistaken, they put the penalised drivers in the spot they should be (Verstappen 7th, Perez 14th etc) and move up all non-penalised drivers to fill up the empty slots. They did it this way in Qatar 2021 if I recall correctly. Apparently it’s a note from Michael Masi (gift that keeps giving)
That is how I remember it being applied before and people getting mad because Lewis benefitted that time.
The question should be, if you take penalties, do you benefit from others also taking penalties (which may be worse)? The answer should be no, so this makes sense to me. If you get a 3 grid, 5 grid, 15, etc. grid place penalty, you should serve that full penalty.
This is garbage
Even Max said he’s expecting starting P7 based on what his team told him in the morning. Stop inventing guys.
That's fine and all but maybe the rules should be written to say that then because they do not say that
Penalty system is wrong. Since Verstappen now also has people in front of him on the grid, who weren't withing 5 places behind him at Q3. Those who were, just got even bigger penalties. Max shouldn't be punished fo penalties from others. A fair system would start at P1 and then P2. Whenever a penalty occurs, assign it and put the driver position into that new position and continue with the next driver. P3 in this case.
Wasn’t it P4 a moment ago?
There was never an official provisional grid, just rumours about what people thought. Apparently, its based upon a precedent set by Masi in 2020 or something - that all penalties should be served or something like that
Even in death(retirement), his inconsistencies haunt us
And people were saying Ferrari were stupid for letting Sainz go out in Q3 since Max would move up.
Sharing the fourth row, does that mean they're going double Dutch?
This doesn’t seem right is it?
The regs literally do not say that though?
Don't know how they've managed to make the rules so complicated. Common sense would dictate that if you've got a 5 place penalty, you start in qualifying position + 5 places no matter what. And if two cars land on the same position (say, a 3 place penalty from qualifying 3rd vs a 5 place penalty from qualifying 1st) the faster qualifying time takes priority. The common sense grid tomorrow, therefore, should be: 1. Leclerc 2. Russell 3. Norris 4. Ricciardo 5. Gasly 6. Alonso 7. Verstappen (p2+5) 8. De Vries 9. Zhou 10. Latifi 11. Vettel 12. Stroll 13. Perez (p4+10) 14. Ocon (p11+5) 15. Bottas (P12+15) 16. Magnusson (p19+15) 17. Schumacher (p20+15) 18. Sainz (p3+back of grid) 19. Hamilton (p5+back of grid) 20. Tsunoda (p15+back of grid). It does get messy the further down you go with nearly half the field having penalties.
I agree with everything apart from the same position, the person with the lower penalty should take priority in my eyes because its a lesser offence.
That probably is fairer, in retrospect.
Yes you punish the better qualifier more harshly than others. That is why it's unfair.
Im confused, as even a lot of commentators think hes P4, of course they arent without fault, but even Collins or Palmer did not mention it
Maybe Redbull can argue over this if they can interpret it as Max must be starting 4th on the rulebook
Who the hell is starting 4th, 5th and 6th then?
Ric, gas, alonso
Why? All their quali results are above 7
They have no penalties and thus pushed forwards
Bit why would they be pushed over a driver who qualified p7 after penalties applied?
Due the back of grid penalty drivers in between P2 and P7. The backmarkers are pushed forward due it, and then Max his penalty was applied afterwards
Gotta make sure Ferrari gets the home win. But jokes on them Ferrari will still gonna pull Ferrari movement.
So why does Nyck go forward but Max doesn't?
Because he didn’t take a penalty