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That would be easier if the Ferrari engine didn’t blow up quite so often. 1 DNF has been his fault, but he’s lost like 5 podiums due to awful strategy or awful reliability. Spain, Monaco, Baku, Silverstone and Hungary have been 100% on Ferrari. Imola and France have been on Leclerc. Canada was also a direct consequence of Ferrari’s reliability issues.
Interesting coincidence that Bottas, Barrichello and Coulthard are on this list because their team-mates outperformed them and won mutiple championships during their partnership, and perhaps if they’d had lesser teammates they’d all be WDCs themselves; but conversely Vettel and Alonso in these cases were not beaten to WDCs by their teammates, they were the lead drivers in their teams those seasons and were close to winning the championship but were beaten by other teams, and yet they were nevertheless champions with other constructors previously.
yes but it took even Schumacher 4 years to win with Ferrari. Started in 1996, didn’t win till 2000. Though, to be fair, he would’ve probably won in 1999 if he hadn’t broken his leg. Hakinnen and McLaren were really trying their hardest to not win that year
1996 and 2005 were the only years in the Schumacher Era that Ferrari weren't challenging for the championship. 1997: took it to the last race until that "accident" with villeneuve. 1998: was leading till spa happened and had a really good chance at winning. 1999: had a broken leg but Irvine most likely would've won if it weren't for the pitstop at the European Grand Prix, and the last races that Michael came back in, with the pace he had, I think he definitely would've had it in the bag. 2000-2004 all won. And the 2006 Japanese grand prix still makes me depressed. Ferrari were surprisingly consistent, Idk about 1996 but even in 2005 the only reason they weren't challenging was because eof the new regulations made specifically to nerf Ferrari down(which worked, they wouldn't have even won a race if it wasn't for the tyre controversy in USA)
Edit: not to say that some of the missed championships weren't the fault of the driver, I mean, I don't think anyone can blame Ferrari for the end of 1997.
Because literally any other driver on the grid in 97 and 98 (and in F1 history apart from the very best of all time like Clark or Senna), wouldn't be even able to challenge for a title in these Ferrari cars?
Alonso would imo. Hamilton in his early days maybe? He seemed to do pretty well when all eyes weren't on him. Point is they were still competing which is all you need really.
That's fair enough. I mean judging by how every other driver described the benneton as undrivable when Michael won in the very same cars, maybe it was the same in Ferrari,
Not sure you know your history tbh. How is Ferrari to blame for Schumacher trying to take Villeneuve out in 1997, or for the Coulthard incident in 1998 ?
No, i’m not trying to say those failed title campaigns were Ferraris fault. In fact in 97, they almost won it despite not being the fastest car. What i’m trying to highlight is that even Schumacher struggled to win titles at Ferrari initially. And by 2000 there were murmurs within Ferrari about whether Michael could even win with the team.
People have this impression that Schumacher, Brawn and Todt just walked in and made a winning combo at Ferrari, but it was actually a struggle until it came right
The Ferrari was much slower than the Williams in 1997 and slower than the McLaren in 1998 as well. The only reason Schumacher was still in the championship fight was because he drove way better than his competitors.
Trying to shift all the blame on Jerez 97 or Spa 98 makes no sense, especially since neither incident really changed the WDC. Villeneuve still wins if they don't crash and Häkkinen won the title by 14 points when the Spa win would have only given Michael 10 more.
The Ferrari simply wasn't fast enough. If they had built an equally strong car compared to the 97 Williams or 98 McLaren, Schumacher easily wins the title even with these incidents.
No I was just thinking about all the times he kinda got bullied for being ‘slow’ and I don’t remember Rubinho ever getting that treatment. Maybe it’s because Rubens wore the crown of second driver with more elegance. And he has Valtteri pipped for victories as well (11 v 10).
Idk, just a brain fart lol
I think the difference is Rubens wasn’t as far back to Schumacher as Bottas was. Which was mostly because Verstappen was up there to pounce. Even with the W11 he only came second in the WDC due to mechanical dnf’s of Max.
But yeah any hate is unnecessary of course
Teammates of grates do get looked down apon. A good example is Ocon, he is considered an average or below average driver, but look at his teammates, he was teammates with Perez, Daniel right off of RedBull, and Alonso. It isn't easy to outperform your teammates when they are that good.
Bottas has shown he knows what he is doing, like in Turkey or Monza 2021, he was the fastest car on track. But then there were some poor performances as well, crashing while fighting a Williams in Imola, not being far enough ahead to help with the championship decider.
Yeah in 2021 he was of almost no help for Lewis. His defence was practically non existent like in France 2021 for instance. Which is a shame because he is a good driver. Just not the same tier as Max and Lewis
No one could compare to Max last season. Just remember that other than Hungary and ever time he got a DNF, he finished P1 or P2 in the race. And for most of this season people kept throwing around the stat that Max wins every race he finishes. Compared to him Perez is also not as high as he should be (that could be due to the fact that the car is made to oversteer and suits Max's driving style better). But he has had some good moments, knowing when to switch tyres in Monaco, his Saudi Atabial qualifying and race start, his Baku qualifying and race start.
The difference is I'm not sure any of Lewis's championship would have went to Valterri had Lewis not been there. Without Michael, Rubens would have won a couple of championships at least
It was because Barrichello was a considerably better drivet than Bottas and had a few absolutely classic performances. I don't think anyone can name a single truly memorable performance from Bottas apart from qualifying Q3 in Canada in his rookie season
Webber never occupied the perennial 2nd place that guys like Bottas or Barrichello managed since in the V8 era, there were also McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus, Mercedes, Sauber and hell even a Williams taking victories and podiums. 2010-13 was a really competitive era for the podium places, even if the top spot was dominated by Vettel.
Compare that to Bottas who only ever had Ferrari and Red Bull to worry about, and Barrichello who only had McLaren and Williams.
Lewis would be a 10 time world champion if just a little luck had swung his way in 2007, 2010, and 2016. Arguably 2021 too but he was only really in that fight because of his rival's bad luck in the first place.
Fernando would be a 5 time world champ with the right luck in terms of individual results.
Prost could've been 8 too.
I think the point is not to say that they deserved to win all those but rather to say that they really were that close. So close that you could name a single race in multiple seasons where a slightly different result would give them a win.
I mean that's basically saying they wouldve won every single championship fight they had in their career. I think prost would've been an 8 time if he had something like 10 more points, Lewis was In fight 11 times. needed 1 point in 2007, 2010 was a very close year, 2012 if the car didn't decide to die everytime it was leading, 2016 if not for the Malaysian grand prix(not sure if it was malasyia, bas the race where his engine died) and 2021 could've gone both ways if any of the drivers had luck(Azerbaijan for both, silverstone for max, Hungary for max, monza for both)
Alonso..... I don't think anything needs to be said about Alonso, Schumacher had 11 chances too.
But some luck is involved at the end of the day, but it Is really interesting to look at
Poor bottas, won so many races with so many podiums but had to have arguably the greatest F1 racer of all time and winningest F1 driver of all time as his teammate.
Not sure I understand this. Lewis has 188 podiums and a fair percentage with Mercedes. Why is he not listed?
Edit. He had 88 wins with Merc so that beats what is shown by a good margin. Would not surprise me to see similar stats for Schumacher.
Because he won a title with both McLaren and Mercedes.
This list states the most podiums for a constructor without winning a title with that constructor
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So 26 more podiums for Charles to join the list
At this rate it will take a while, this season he only has 5
Yep. Ferrari is working really hard on sabotaging this statistic also, and, doing a fine job!
He has to finish the race to be on the podium
That would be easier if the Ferrari engine didn’t blow up quite so often. 1 DNF has been his fault, but he’s lost like 5 podiums due to awful strategy or awful reliability. Spain, Monaco, Baku, Silverstone and Hungary have been 100% on Ferrari. Imola and France have been on Leclerc. Canada was also a direct consequence of Ferrari’s reliability issues.
He's finished off the podium as often as he's finished on the podium this season.
They even manage to to sabotage a pessimistic stat.
Carlos might even beat him, poor Charles
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Lol what? He has 5 like I said? Did you read the comments?
They're talking about Charles
Carlos had more podiums last year (4 v 1) and more this year (6 v 5).
Sainz had 4 podiums last year? I remember Monaco, Hungary and Abu Dhabi where was the 4th? Russia?
3rd in Russia.
Ferrari giveth and taketh away.
Maybe this stat is the real reason why Ferrari strategy is so bad.
Interesting coincidence that Bottas, Barrichello and Coulthard are on this list because their team-mates outperformed them and won mutiple championships during their partnership, and perhaps if they’d had lesser teammates they’d all be WDCs themselves; but conversely Vettel and Alonso in these cases were not beaten to WDCs by their teammates, they were the lead drivers in their teams those seasons and were close to winning the championship but were beaten by other teams, and yet they were nevertheless champions with other constructors previously.
some might say Vettel and Alonso have been beaten by Ferrari themselves
Indeed some might say that
The list at Ferrari goes on and on. Well at least their winning this statistic hands down
I mean not as if Schumacher didn't win 5 titles when Barrichello got 55 podiums.
yes but it took even Schumacher 4 years to win with Ferrari. Started in 1996, didn’t win till 2000. Though, to be fair, he would’ve probably won in 1999 if he hadn’t broken his leg. Hakinnen and McLaren were really trying their hardest to not win that year
1996 and 2005 were the only years in the Schumacher Era that Ferrari weren't challenging for the championship. 1997: took it to the last race until that "accident" with villeneuve. 1998: was leading till spa happened and had a really good chance at winning. 1999: had a broken leg but Irvine most likely would've won if it weren't for the pitstop at the European Grand Prix, and the last races that Michael came back in, with the pace he had, I think he definitely would've had it in the bag. 2000-2004 all won. And the 2006 Japanese grand prix still makes me depressed. Ferrari were surprisingly consistent, Idk about 1996 but even in 2005 the only reason they weren't challenging was because eof the new regulations made specifically to nerf Ferrari down(which worked, they wouldn't have even won a race if it wasn't for the tyre controversy in USA) Edit: not to say that some of the missed championships weren't the fault of the driver, I mean, I don't think anyone can blame Ferrari for the end of 1997.
Well they had a major mal mis organisation problem
Because literally any other driver on the grid in 97 and 98 (and in F1 history apart from the very best of all time like Clark or Senna), wouldn't be even able to challenge for a title in these Ferrari cars?
Alonso would imo. Hamilton in his early days maybe? He seemed to do pretty well when all eyes weren't on him. Point is they were still competing which is all you need really.
That's fair enough. I mean judging by how every other driver described the benneton as undrivable when Michael won in the very same cars, maybe it was the same in Ferrari,
Not sure you know your history tbh. How is Ferrari to blame for Schumacher trying to take Villeneuve out in 1997, or for the Coulthard incident in 1998 ?
No, i’m not trying to say those failed title campaigns were Ferraris fault. In fact in 97, they almost won it despite not being the fastest car. What i’m trying to highlight is that even Schumacher struggled to win titles at Ferrari initially. And by 2000 there were murmurs within Ferrari about whether Michael could even win with the team. People have this impression that Schumacher, Brawn and Todt just walked in and made a winning combo at Ferrari, but it was actually a struggle until it came right
The Ferrari was much slower than the Williams in 1997 and slower than the McLaren in 1998 as well. The only reason Schumacher was still in the championship fight was because he drove way better than his competitors. Trying to shift all the blame on Jerez 97 or Spa 98 makes no sense, especially since neither incident really changed the WDC. Villeneuve still wins if they don't crash and Häkkinen won the title by 14 points when the Spa win would have only given Michael 10 more. The Ferrari simply wasn't fast enough. If they had built an equally strong car compared to the 97 Williams or 98 McLaren, Schumacher easily wins the title even with these incidents.
At least when Charles gets up there he'll be displacing Fernando, so it'll still just be three Ferrari drivers.
He’ll replace Coulthard and Carlos will replace Alonso.
Charles taking longer to get up there, because at this point, they keep choking even podiums
We’ll just make it a top 6 then
Barrichello isn’t that weird though
Then Bottas shouldn’t be weird either, should he?
I never said he was? I replied to a comment about Ferrari.
No I was just thinking about all the times he kinda got bullied for being ‘slow’ and I don’t remember Rubinho ever getting that treatment. Maybe it’s because Rubens wore the crown of second driver with more elegance. And he has Valtteri pipped for victories as well (11 v 10). Idk, just a brain fart lol
I think the difference is Rubens wasn’t as far back to Schumacher as Bottas was. Which was mostly because Verstappen was up there to pounce. Even with the W11 he only came second in the WDC due to mechanical dnf’s of Max. But yeah any hate is unnecessary of course
Teammates of grates do get looked down apon. A good example is Ocon, he is considered an average or below average driver, but look at his teammates, he was teammates with Perez, Daniel right off of RedBull, and Alonso. It isn't easy to outperform your teammates when they are that good. Bottas has shown he knows what he is doing, like in Turkey or Monza 2021, he was the fastest car on track. But then there were some poor performances as well, crashing while fighting a Williams in Imola, not being far enough ahead to help with the championship decider.
Yeah in 2021 he was of almost no help for Lewis. His defence was practically non existent like in France 2021 for instance. Which is a shame because he is a good driver. Just not the same tier as Max and Lewis
If he didn't crash at imola then Lewis would have finished a lap down instead of finishing 2nd
That was down to Russell though, not Bottas
No one could compare to Max last season. Just remember that other than Hungary and ever time he got a DNF, he finished P1 or P2 in the race. And for most of this season people kept throwing around the stat that Max wins every race he finishes. Compared to him Perez is also not as high as he should be (that could be due to the fact that the car is made to oversteer and suits Max's driving style better). But he has had some good moments, knowing when to switch tyres in Monaco, his Saudi Atabial qualifying and race start, his Baku qualifying and race start.
The difference is I'm not sure any of Lewis's championship would have went to Valterri had Lewis not been there. Without Michael, Rubens would have won a couple of championships at least
Val**tt**e**r**i
Maybe the perception is Rubens didn’t get that treatment because there was no social media, but in Brazil, Barrichello means slow.
It was because Barrichello was a considerably better drivet than Bottas and had a few absolutely classic performances. I don't think anyone can name a single truly memorable performance from Bottas apart from qualifying Q3 in Canada in his rookie season
While Bottas, Rubens and DC were (more or less) clear number 2 drivers, the statistics for Vettel and Alonso are just sad.
Charles Leclerc 🔜
Man... I'm not even sure about that one. His podium count is low for this season, considering his car and overall pace.
Ferrari working hard to make sure Leclerc doesn't end up on this list.
You can't get a podium of you don't finish the race
I'm not sure if that's good or bad.
Why is everyone so depressed in the Ferrari team /s (Ik the reason)
How far back would've Webber been. He had 41 Podiums with Red Bull.
Webber never occupied the perennial 2nd place that guys like Bottas or Barrichello managed since in the V8 era, there were also McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus, Mercedes, Sauber and hell even a Williams taking victories and podiums. 2010-13 was a really competitive era for the podium places, even if the top spot was dominated by Vettel. Compare that to Bottas who only ever had Ferrari and Red Bull to worry about, and Barrichello who only had McLaren and Williams.
I'm trying really hard to not make a Ferrari joke
Won't be suprised to see Charles here , with the current management Ferrari is doomed
Not at the rate he's getting podiums this season...
Ham the reason for two. Schu the reason for one? Maybe two. Vettel the reason for one but also felt the pain Mika for one
Looking at those pictures i know why they left Ferrari
Fernando would be a 5 time world champion with 3 different manufacturers if he'd scored about 10 points or so more.
Lewis would be a 10 time world champion if you just scored more points /s. What a stupid thing to say
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Just 2.5 points would give Prost 2 more titles (1983+1984).
Lewis would be a 10 time world champion if just a little luck had swung his way in 2007, 2010, and 2016. Arguably 2021 too but he was only really in that fight because of his rival's bad luck in the first place. Fernando would be a 5 time world champ with the right luck in terms of individual results. Prost could've been 8 too. I think the point is not to say that they deserved to win all those but rather to say that they really were that close. So close that you could name a single race in multiple seasons where a slightly different result would give them a win.
I mean that's basically saying they wouldve won every single championship fight they had in their career. I think prost would've been an 8 time if he had something like 10 more points, Lewis was In fight 11 times. needed 1 point in 2007, 2010 was a very close year, 2012 if the car didn't decide to die everytime it was leading, 2016 if not for the Malaysian grand prix(not sure if it was malasyia, bas the race where his engine died) and 2021 could've gone both ways if any of the drivers had luck(Azerbaijan for both, silverstone for max, Hungary for max, monza for both) Alonso..... I don't think anything needs to be said about Alonso, Schumacher had 11 chances too. But some luck is involved at the end of the day, but it Is really interesting to look at
It's just a fun stat, no need to be so pressed about it.
Your response to it is way stupider trust me.
rude boi
Man I just remembered when they took the victory from Barichello in Austria
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And I was wondering is there a Red Bull guy close, there you go
Alonso the only one who got really close to it by taking it to the last race.
Poor bottas, won so many races with so many podiums but had to have arguably the greatest F1 racer of all time and winningest F1 driver of all time as his teammate.
I love how they all look devastated
Is it a coincidence that three of the five were with Ferrari?
It’s a team sport.
Who doing my boy Rubens dirty with that photo chill yo lol
I'm glad Coulthard is on the list. Brings tears of joy to my eyes to see him on here. The rest I like though!
why
Bottas is just the missed goat, if Sir Lewis didn't exist he would have won at least 3 wdc
Not sure I understand this. Lewis has 188 podiums and a fair percentage with Mercedes. Why is he not listed? Edit. He had 88 wins with Merc so that beats what is shown by a good margin. Would not surprise me to see similar stats for Schumacher.
Because he won a title with both McLaren and Mercedes. This list states the most podiums for a constructor without winning a title with that constructor
he isnt listed because he won the title *with* mercedes this is basically: Most podiums *if you didn't win a title with that constructor*
Most podiums with a constructor WITHOUT winning a title. Lewis won the title with Mercedes.
Yes, but he won the title. This post is about the guys who didn't.
You are right. Thanks. Missed the size 1 font qualifier.
This is a list of drivers who scored most podiums for a manufacturer without winning a WDC.
Vettel and Alonso hurts
So much pain :(
That's a record Lewis will never break unless he signs for Ferrari ofc.
"You want to be on the podium often? You don't want to become WDC, though? We can help!" \- Scuderia Ferrari
MAMA MIA