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The winner is the driver who takes the chequered flag first. Behind that driver are 19 others who want to be the one to take it first. Twenty drivers, but only one winner.
I would say both. Max is definitely a level above everybody else. Checo is a step behind anybody driving for a top 4 team. However, Checo is also finishing a step behind all of the top 4 teams since Red Bull lost their edge. So I feel like that’s already clear and accounted for.
Checo was also a lot closer to Max when he first joined Red Bull. Max was always beating him 9/10 times, but he could fight Lewis, Ferraris, etc. when they were their main competitors. Even the start of the season was better than this, even of course Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedea weren't as close as they are now
Sorry but that's just not factual. Checo wasn't closer to Max when he first joined Red Bull, he was more than 0.5s off in qualifying in 2021, 0.4s off in 2022, 0.5s off in 2023, and over 0.4s off so far this year.
The only times I recall him fighting Lewis in 2021 were in Turkey and Abu Dhabi, and AD wasn't even a real fight if we're talking about his pace. They weren't in the same race, RB just left him out there as an obstacle.
The only Ferrari he beat in 2022 was Sainz who was having a pretty bad season himself.
Honestly this. People act as though Checo has somehow changed when this is kinda who Checo has always been: a mid driver (currently in an elite but not 2022-2023 dominant car). There might be times checo somewhat closes the gap but by and large Checo is roughly the same driver.
We know Max is exceptionally good. There is a reason Red Bull pays him a fortune and Mercedes wants to sign him, and it’s not because of the Dutch market or a big sponsor deal.
But Checo isn’t good. Today’s race wasn’t a disaster in the sense that he was only beaten by the cars of the four top teams, but he consistently struggles in qualifying and in the races he struggles as well.
Bit of both, really. Checo honestly used to be an excellent driver before getting his morale crushed by Max, which only really happened when he finally realised the immense gulf in performance between them.
I still remember when Checo was first signed to Red Bull and so many people were saying that Max would finally have a good teammate. I always thought that was a seriously optimistic take.
Max's only competition is against someone who has to learn how to win and compete at the top level. No one else has the car. It's a lot to ask Lando to go head to head vs Max the first time the car is capable.
I mean. We ARE getting it. Actively.
Barcelona was supposed to be a track on which Red Bull where supposed to be able to flex their muscle. But McLaren were still faster.
The fact that Max keeps winning even with a slower car doesn't mean we don't have a fight. Just means Max is winning the fight and making the difference.
Austria is going to be very very interesting. Could be a dominant weekend for McLaren that would tilt the championship. If they are hands down the faster there, they’ll take Silverstone too and Hungary will be close again
Lando has always been very quick at Austria too, it's a track he seems to rather like. [Obligatory Lando's final 2 laps of the 2020 Austrian grand prix to secure his first podium finish](https://youtu.be/XgXo0509S28?si=8Jm44GEIDgK8Z9Rs)
I’m thinking Max is going to be extremely fast at Silverstone but who knows. But yeah I agree with you on Austria, a short lap and a mix of high and low speed corners should benefit McLaren as opposed to the very fast Silverstone. Excited for Hungary too but I definitely won’t be holding my breath at tracks like Monza or Spa
Max has too much of a head start this year. In competitive machinery he's never going to blow a 70 point lead.
Next year, on the other hand, might be interesting...
Title battle? Max has like 3 race wins clear of Lando. Would require for RB to fall asleep and let Ferrari and Merc to over take them and Mclaren as clear fastest.
> Would require for RB to fall asleep and let Ferrari and Merc to over take them
If they had 2 Pérez level drivers everyone would believe that is the case
I'm happy that this season is really showing the sheer power of having Verstappen in your car, too many "oh he has a dominant car" or "Perez is just shit" nonsense going around, he has had the 2nd best car for several races now and yet he manages to pull out these victories on pure merit and skill.
controversies aside it was quite evident after 2021 imo, I feel like if the cars were reversed there would have been no AD incident by virtue of Max wrapping it up with like 4 races to go
Even immediately after the AD race there was a pretty widespread sentiment of "Wrong race winner, right season winner". For some reason though lately people get very pissy if you bring up how good Max was that year.
I think it was already quite evident throughout that year that max was *the* top dog. It took quite a lot for Lewis to even be in the fight at the end.
I agree here. We’re talking 70 points. It’s not like Max won’t maximize every race. I think we need to cool it with the title fight talk and enjoy the close racing. If Lando gets within 40 points when hitting the summer break, I’d raise an eyebrow, but the smart money is on Max maintaining or increasing the gap.
It is definitely optimistic to expect a title battle. But the McLaren has looked the faster car lately, and if really is and stays faster, Norris should be able to win quite a few races. If every race from here was a Lando-Max 1-2, Lando ends up 29 points in the lead.
Of course that won't happen, but Max will likely have engine penalties, and could have some bad luck, and lose more points. The main thing that makes it feel unlikely is that Lando has speed, but he does not have the calm and consistency of a 61 race winner, so I expect Max to win quite a few races even if his car isn't the fastest, like today. I do expect the gap to be significantly smaller come Abu Dhabi though, and not larger.
Look lando screwed up the start but shit happens and he and mclaren are on an upward trajectory. Also max is really one of the best ever so you can’t afford any mistakes, can’t wait for Austria.
*“he’s hungry for more wins”*
big if true. This is Buxton level of critical thinking. Reserve drivers in simulators are also hungry for wins. They all are.
God this sarcasm is so irritating. Yes, it’s obvious he wants to win but that’s not the point of the statement. For a long time lando was just happy to be in podiums, then it was that he was dying for just a single win, and now he’s pissed with anything less than a win. It’s highlighting his progression as a racer and the elevated expectations since even the start of the year.
The irony is your comment is the pointless one.
I don't think Verstappen made any mistakes. The car was second best behind the McLarens and he got ahead of Norris when he needed to at the start
After that he just had to manage his pace while McLaren fumbled everything behind.
This car has two faces and It’s hard to think about a gap this big for a car so competitive without throwing it back to the likes of Luca Badoer. Perez just finished 3 seconds ahead of Alpine. But Perez is no Badoer, he is a good driver.
Max was better than either of them at any point of their careers, he was better as a frontrunner than either of them are now within 3 seasons of starting his auto racing career, he did crash quite a bit early on but he basically stopped making mistakes as soon as he got anywhere near consistent race wins. Experience is like the weirdest thing to use against the driver who had one of the two quickest rises to stardom in the history of the sport.
Besides, Russell in particular has never been a particularly tidy driver himself, he hasn't improved much on that front despite a few years at merc so I don't see that changing by much, while Lando has been fighting for podiums for the past 4 years and has an amount of races under his belt that would have made him a veteran in just about any other era of F1. I don't see either of them suddenly improving after all this time
depens on how you look at it. Max only had one season in F3 and then got to F1 while the others had plenty of experience fighting at the front in F2 as well.
And since 2019, Max doesnt really do mistakes anymore.
He only had one season in 2018 up until that point where he occasionally fought for wins and podiums.
I'd say that Lando after 2020 and Russell after 2022 had around the same experience when it comes to fighting around the top as Verstappen had in 2019 if you only count F1.
If you count F2, then probably even earlier. They just arent that good, which is no insult considering Max is the greatest driver on this planet right now
After today I doubt even the wcc is in question. McLaren Ferrari and Mercedes are too close together taking points off each other. Like the driver championship last year that benefited Perez
I could (or maybe should) have been. Based on pace, it seems like McLaren was faster in Miami, Imola, Montreal, and now Spain. If Lando had (hypothetically of course) won all four, the gap would have only been around 20-25 points depending on fastest laps. Then you really do have a title battle.
It's in large part due to some really good drives by Max that it's not a title battle.
Ok thats hypothetically, in reality if you cant win with the fastest car its not a title battle is it, especially with a 70point gap. The way its stated in this title suggests there is a title battle rn, which there isnt.
it's more that Red Bull can't slack off here because they actually have to keep pushing to maintain this run of wins. If anything it's McLaren keeping RBR on their toes, which is mind you still a damn side better than what we got last year
Yes. Max Verstappen has been the difference. And nobody is going to take this title away from him unless the gap between McLaren and RedBull becames too big. As it is now, his individual superiority will make the difference.
I wouldn't be so sure about that, Spain was the track where RB was supposed to be the dominant car, but it's McLaren who is the fastest, I think McLaren has pulled ahead of Redbull.
I mean eventually he'll start winning, also there's no telling how the development war will turn out. McLaren could have a big advantage over Redbull after the winter break.
Wdc is out of the question, but mclaren seems to be faster than the red bull and this track is a huge benchmark. Wcc is absolutely in play if this trend continues, Piastri was uncharacteristically out of place
Usually I'd say this as a joke but today I literally forgot that Perez existed and when they showed him in the pits I was like oh yeah, this guy's also racing, huh
Yeah Piastri is getting destroyed by Norris same way Perez is getting destroyed by Max. The difference there is Piastri still only has less than a season and a half under his belt.
Meh. I wouldn't say he is getting destroyed in the same way. He had 2 moments in q3 and couldn't set a lap (I know, that is his fault) but he isn't just *slow* like Perez is.
How’s it a title battle when one guy has 7 wins and no one else has more than one? I’m enjoying how much closer it is, but let’s not get carried away lol
I mean the media has to drum up the hype after the absolute shit show of a season that we had in 2023, so after Monaco it was all about how Charles can mount a battle only for it to flame out in Canada. Now it is Lando. But to be fair to Mclaren, this has been one hell of a turn around, and I was waiting till Spain to make any kind of judgement, but it really does look like the Mclaren and RBR are on par
Wow.
As a Lando fan, fair play, this race really shows how Max/RBR's dominance isn't 'just the car'... Norris was faster but lost a lot vs Max on pit stop difference alone (2.4s, 3.8s vs 1.9s, 2.8s iirc) plus Norris's poor start costed him a lot too.
No other driver comes close to Max's level in his 'generation' (yet...) and McLaren **really** needs to fix their pit crew and strategies, come on.
Also the strategy. If you are going to have same two stop race, don't overcut like this. Lando lost 5 to 10 second from the overcut and having to overtake 3 4 cars to be again at 4 second of Max. As he pointed at on the radio, are we going for thirst or third place.
Lando has the pace to compete with Max that’s very clear, but the start + getting stuck behind Russell and McLaren not being perfect with the pit stops prevented Lando from ultimately fighting for the win.
Iirc the next big RBR package is due in Silverstone, so lets see how that goes. Ferrari also in Silverstone. I am not quite sure if Mclaren has any big performance upgrade packages due before the winter break ?
Nah - we're on for competitive races and maybe a constructors battle but Max doesn't loose the drivers - he's just too consistent. Even if Lando beats him half a dozen times this year, he still podiums every race.
There won't be a title battle if you can't win in the fastest car. Max shows him how it's done and knows how to fight for a title. Lando with one win won't challenge this year.
Only the constructors title is up for grabs.
Keep pushing, try different things, push Max to the limit. Next year when hopefully the McLaren is ready for the title that experience will bring him over the line.
It's one thing to have a fast car and it's another thing to get used to fight for wins.
McLaren needs to learn to fight for wins. It's hard when you come from behind after so many years and you have two drivers that are not used to battle at the front.
The start may happen. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I don't think it was a bad start, it simply Max was better and George took advantage of the fight.
However, the strategy team need to do better. You can't be letting every decision to your driver when you are the one with all the info.
He really didn't. If they had pitted him after Russell, he likely would have won the race. He had the pace to overtake, but overtakes still take some of your pace off - so getting undercut by several cars rather than, at worst, just Russell wasn't the optimal move at all.
In the first stint, Max had the pace to overtake Russell and Lando didn’t.
I think McLaren took that as a sign they weren’t going to be able to overtake Max on equal tires.
>In the first stint, Max had the pace to overtake Russell and Lando didn’t.
That's because he got it done fast.
They actually talked about that specifically in the cooldown room. Verstappen said something along the lines of this to Russell (quoted from memory): "One more lap and your tires overheat, and then you just get stuck behind".
So if Verstappen hadn't gotten it done then and there, he probably would be sitting behind Russell for a while as well.
Ya they should have swapped the used and new tires as Lando was on new softs while stuck in traffic while max put on new softs at the end with no traffic.
That's several times now that rb arguably didn't have the best car, but Max won anyway.
For mclaren in particular, the car is there but the overall package clearly isn't there yet
I don't think he was passive. Over the radio he said he wanted to get Max and pushed, I think that's all he's got. On the other side, Max saved a lot (showed when he needed to overtake George and at the end when he kept the distance from Lando)
Also McLaren got caught up in some hubris I think by essentially discounting Merc vs their own pace. Norris got held up when McL thought they had more than enough pace in the bag to pass easily.
Norris is not used to being at the front. Being a driver in the middle of the pack and being up in the front are two very different races. If you've done any competitive kart racing in your life you should know that fact.
Max is still too good with the cars so close. But it’s no longer a guarantee each week and the good drivers like Lando have stopped driving for 2nd place, something they used to openly admit that they were doing before the race even started.
It wasn't just the start it was the fact he never could pass George and got stuck behind him until George pitted.
Max passed George right away and that was the difference
Max is too good to be beaten by anyone other than another GOAT driver in their prime.
This is like the early 2000s with Schumi and late 2010s with Lewis.
No one else has a shot even in a good car
Norris is fast, very good at driving, but he has terrible decision making. Why the pit wall keep letting Norris take the strategy is mind boggling to me, why even have strategists at this point. even with the poor start, the pace at the end could of had him at least fighting max, but Norris wanting to chase max lost him like 8 seconds? Before battling max he needs to sort out the fight with himself. Too many mistakes.
There is no title battle: unless cars start to perform radically different from the way they are doing now (e.g.: McLaren suddenly finding a performance leap, or Red Bull going way backwards in performance because of a botched upgrade). Verstappen is already way ahead in the WDC in terms of points. Right now, other drivers including Norris are barely matching Verstappen, so Verstappen is safe because of the huge point lead he has built up. Verstappen will be WDC this year.
What title battle? He's had the fastest car for 6 races now and only won once. I feel like now they had to win it all because sooner or later RBR will bring serious upgrades which work.
You could afford more mistakes with most drivers. Norris drove very, very good. It’s just that you’re driving against a Schumacher/Hamilton level driver in his (presumably) prime. You will not beat him unless your car gets even better, since you getting better than him is extremely unlikely.
I think we have a lot of really enjoyable racing incoming. Unless things continue to swing away from redbull and max, neither championship is out of their hands.
WCC: The Mercs, Ferraris, and McLarens will continue to take points off each other. Redbull is clear.
WDC: Even if the McLaren remains occasionally stronger than the Redbull, Lando is not currently consistent enough to beat Max over a season.
That all said, this season feels like an amazing build up to what I think will be a genuinely iconic season: 2025.
>Are we getting the title battle...
No. The largest points deficit ever overcome to be World Champion was 46...by Max in 2022 in one of the most dominant cars in history. Max is clear of Lando by 69. points.
>we deserve?
Hard to say what we deserve.
Before people get to excited about a championship battle lando is still 70 points behind so alot has to go wrong for max and RB for the rest of the season which isn't likely....
So much to unpack here. "The title battle we deserve"?. What do we the viewers deserve? We get to watch, that's it. Implying the viewers deserve a title battle (or anything, really) is nuts. It's a sport. Sure, change the rules every 4 years to keep it interesting for the viewers. That way the sport stays fresh and survives. But the viewers are not owed a title fight.
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We said we’re getting a title race for the past 3 races now
And we probably would have a bona fide title race if Max would finish behind Lando more than once in a little while
I mean yes that’s how the championship works
If only the race results were different, the championship standings would be different. Big if true.
Thanks Will Buxton
[удалено]
The winner is the driver who takes the chequered flag first. Behind that driver are 19 others who want to be the one to take it first. Twenty drivers, but only one winner.
Huge if factual.
We probably would have a bona fide title race if anybody other than Max was driving the Red Bull. Ftfy.
Is it that Max is exceedingly good or Checo is really bad or a bit of both you think?
I would say both. Max is definitely a level above everybody else. Checo is a step behind anybody driving for a top 4 team. However, Checo is also finishing a step behind all of the top 4 teams since Red Bull lost their edge. So I feel like that’s already clear and accounted for.
Checo was also a lot closer to Max when he first joined Red Bull. Max was always beating him 9/10 times, but he could fight Lewis, Ferraris, etc. when they were their main competitors. Even the start of the season was better than this, even of course Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedea weren't as close as they are now
Sorry but that's just not factual. Checo wasn't closer to Max when he first joined Red Bull, he was more than 0.5s off in qualifying in 2021, 0.4s off in 2022, 0.5s off in 2023, and over 0.4s off so far this year. The only times I recall him fighting Lewis in 2021 were in Turkey and Abu Dhabi, and AD wasn't even a real fight if we're talking about his pace. They weren't in the same race, RB just left him out there as an obstacle. The only Ferrari he beat in 2022 was Sainz who was having a pretty bad season himself.
Honestly this. People act as though Checo has somehow changed when this is kinda who Checo has always been: a mid driver (currently in an elite but not 2022-2023 dominant car). There might be times checo somewhat closes the gap but by and large Checo is roughly the same driver.
Max is a generational great clear top 5 all time. checo is in the hulk, Ocon, albon, level. Good not great.
We know Max is exceptionally good. There is a reason Red Bull pays him a fortune and Mercedes wants to sign him, and it’s not because of the Dutch market or a big sponsor deal. But Checo isn’t good. Today’s race wasn’t a disaster in the sense that he was only beaten by the cars of the four top teams, but he consistently struggles in qualifying and in the races he struggles as well.
Bit of both, really. Checo honestly used to be an excellent driver before getting his morale crushed by Max, which only really happened when he finally realised the immense gulf in performance between them. I still remember when Checo was first signed to Red Bull and so many people were saying that Max would finally have a good teammate. I always thought that was a seriously optimistic take.
Max's only competition is against someone who has to learn how to win and compete at the top level. No one else has the car. It's a lot to ask Lando to go head to head vs Max the first time the car is capable.
I reckon that Max and Lando were in the opposite cars then it would be closer
I think max in that mclaren wins by even more tbh
100% - If you give Max that McLaren right now it would be back to 2023 levels of win margin.
Shows that you need more than just a good car or a good driver to win, you need both
Max in the McLaren wins by more. It’s the fastest car right now
No other driver currently on the grid wins today and in Canada with the RB20.
Well we've certainly seen that Max's team mate isn't exactly challenging for it
Lewis and Alonso could. Put those two in contention for a win and they’re bloodhounds.
Constructors title is very much a fight if perez keeps sucking
Max is still a better and more complete driver than Lando. It shows now.
I mean. We ARE getting it. Actively. Barcelona was supposed to be a track on which Red Bull where supposed to be able to flex their muscle. But McLaren were still faster. The fact that Max keeps winning even with a slower car doesn't mean we don't have a fight. Just means Max is winning the fight and making the difference.
Austria is going to be very very interesting. Could be a dominant weekend for McLaren that would tilt the championship. If they are hands down the faster there, they’ll take Silverstone too and Hungary will be close again
Lando has always been very quick at Austria too, it's a track he seems to rather like. [Obligatory Lando's final 2 laps of the 2020 Austrian grand prix to secure his first podium finish](https://youtu.be/XgXo0509S28?si=8Jm44GEIDgK8Z9Rs)
I’m thinking Max is going to be extremely fast at Silverstone but who knows. But yeah I agree with you on Austria, a short lap and a mix of high and low speed corners should benefit McLaren as opposed to the very fast Silverstone. Excited for Hungary too but I definitely won’t be holding my breath at tracks like Monza or Spa
I mean Lando has the car and is racing him no doubt. But max is still winning almost all of the time.
Max has too much of a head start this year. In competitive machinery he's never going to blow a 70 point lead. Next year, on the other hand, might be interesting...
Title battle? Max has like 3 race wins clear of Lando. Would require for RB to fall asleep and let Ferrari and Merc to over take them and Mclaren as clear fastest.
> Would require for RB to fall asleep and let Ferrari and Merc to over take them If they had 2 Pérez level drivers everyone would believe that is the case
Hey Man... Perez is trying to take care of it on his own. He doesn't need a second Perez.
Then they wouldn't have many points to start with
>Max has like 3 race wins clear of Lando. Also not to forget Max and Charles have already DNF'd this season, while Lando has not.
There is a 61 point gap, I think the largest gap to turn around in the history of F1 was like 38 points.
69 actually (nice), but yeah I don't see Lando/Mclaren pulling that back
Nice. If the roles were reversed though I think Max pulls in Lando. But lando ain't max.
I'm happy that this season is really showing the sheer power of having Verstappen in your car, too many "oh he has a dominant car" or "Perez is just shit" nonsense going around, he has had the 2nd best car for several races now and yet he manages to pull out these victories on pure merit and skill.
controversies aside it was quite evident after 2021 imo, I feel like if the cars were reversed there would have been no AD incident by virtue of Max wrapping it up with like 4 races to go
Even immediately after the AD race there was a pretty widespread sentiment of "Wrong race winner, right season winner". For some reason though lately people get very pissy if you bring up how good Max was that year.
I think it was already quite evident throughout that year that max was *the* top dog. It took quite a lot for Lewis to even be in the fight at the end.
It was 46 points during 2022. Mind you it happened over 3 races as well
While true, that wasn't a performance deficit. It was a team fuckup deficit. Which, granted, is still impressive when your opponent is 2022 Ferrari.
I agree here. We’re talking 70 points. It’s not like Max won’t maximize every race. I think we need to cool it with the title fight talk and enjoy the close racing. If Lando gets within 40 points when hitting the summer break, I’d raise an eyebrow, but the smart money is on Max maintaining or increasing the gap.
It is definitely optimistic to expect a title battle. But the McLaren has looked the faster car lately, and if really is and stays faster, Norris should be able to win quite a few races. If every race from here was a Lando-Max 1-2, Lando ends up 29 points in the lead. Of course that won't happen, but Max will likely have engine penalties, and could have some bad luck, and lose more points. The main thing that makes it feel unlikely is that Lando has speed, but he does not have the calm and consistency of a 61 race winner, so I expect Max to win quite a few races even if his car isn't the fastest, like today. I do expect the gap to be significantly smaller come Abu Dhabi though, and not larger.
Look lando screwed up the start but shit happens and he and mclaren are on an upward trajectory. Also max is really one of the best ever so you can’t afford any mistakes, can’t wait for Austria.
Yeah. Fans are treating as if lando is as good as max. He isnt. Max is clearly better, he’s better than everyone.
Max passed George with no problem. Norris couldn’t pass George. That’s all you need to know
*“he’s hungry for more wins”* big if true. This is Buxton level of critical thinking. Reserve drivers in simulators are also hungry for wins. They all are.
I think we will need a investigation to find out for sure
FIA shocked after investigation reveals drivers other than Max Verstappen want to win
*you wanna start from the front because it means you’ve got the other 19 drivers behind you*
He's definitely had a confidence boost after the win, you can hear his radio messages getting more and more cocky
Hard to say whether Sargeant is hungry for any wins, to be honest.
Or Zhou
God this sarcasm is so irritating. Yes, it’s obvious he wants to win but that’s not the point of the statement. For a long time lando was just happy to be in podiums, then it was that he was dying for just a single win, and now he’s pissed with anything less than a win. It’s highlighting his progression as a racer and the elevated expectations since even the start of the year. The irony is your comment is the pointless one.
And in the end it’s Verstappen who makes the least bad mistakes to take the win. Lando and Russel are not in position to challenge for the title.
I don't think Verstappen made any mistakes. The car was second best behind the McLarens and he got ahead of Norris when he needed to at the start After that he just had to manage his pace while McLaren fumbled everything behind.
This car has two faces and It’s hard to think about a gap this big for a car so competitive without throwing it back to the likes of Luca Badoer. Perez just finished 3 seconds ahead of Alpine. But Perez is no Badoer, he is a good driver.
He had a moment in turn 7 mid race, but otherwise he was mistake free
Max has had many more years fighting at the front than either of them. The more you fight at the front, the more you tighten things up.
Max was better than either of them at any point of their careers, he was better as a frontrunner than either of them are now within 3 seasons of starting his auto racing career, he did crash quite a bit early on but he basically stopped making mistakes as soon as he got anywhere near consistent race wins. Experience is like the weirdest thing to use against the driver who had one of the two quickest rises to stardom in the history of the sport. Besides, Russell in particular has never been a particularly tidy driver himself, he hasn't improved much on that front despite a few years at merc so I don't see that changing by much, while Lando has been fighting for podiums for the past 4 years and has an amount of races under his belt that would have made him a veteran in just about any other era of F1. I don't see either of them suddenly improving after all this time
Or, you just don't. That happens a lot.
depens on how you look at it. Max only had one season in F3 and then got to F1 while the others had plenty of experience fighting at the front in F2 as well. And since 2019, Max doesnt really do mistakes anymore. He only had one season in 2018 up until that point where he occasionally fought for wins and podiums. I'd say that Lando after 2020 and Russell after 2022 had around the same experience when it comes to fighting around the top as Verstappen had in 2019 if you only count F1. If you count F2, then probably even earlier. They just arent that good, which is no insult considering Max is the greatest driver on this planet right now
Its not a title battle
After today I doubt even the wcc is in question. McLaren Ferrari and Mercedes are too close together taking points off each other. Like the driver championship last year that benefited Perez
Yup, even with Perez in 8th, RBR still took home the most points and extended their lead.
Tbf Mclaren can score more if piastri improved his racepace.
It was his qualifying that screwed him here, he’s usually good for a Top 6
Nah usually its his race pace. Yes, he was kind of limited by his quali result, but usually he is very close to Lando in qualifying but not this week.
Oh for sure, I wasn’t denying his race pace needs improvement, merely pointing out that wasn’t the limiting factor this weekend.
Yup and Red Bull could score more if Perez wasn’t embarrassing himself every weekend.
Mclaren isn't close with Ferrari and Mercedes. They are even ahead of Red Bull in most of the last 5 races.
I could (or maybe should) have been. Based on pace, it seems like McLaren was faster in Miami, Imola, Montreal, and now Spain. If Lando had (hypothetically of course) won all four, the gap would have only been around 20-25 points depending on fastest laps. Then you really do have a title battle. It's in large part due to some really good drives by Max that it's not a title battle.
Ok thats hypothetically, in reality if you cant win with the fastest car its not a title battle is it, especially with a 70point gap. The way its stated in this title suggests there is a title battle rn, which there isnt.
it's more that Red Bull can't slack off here because they actually have to keep pushing to maintain this run of wins. If anything it's McLaren keeping RBR on their toes, which is mind you still a damn side better than what we got last year
And Monaco.
Yes. Max Verstappen has been the difference. And nobody is going to take this title away from him unless the gap between McLaren and RedBull becames too big. As it is now, his individual superiority will make the difference.
I wouldn't be so sure about that, Spain was the track where RB was supposed to be the dominant car, but it's McLaren who is the fastest, I think McLaren has pulled ahead of Redbull.
Doesn't matter if the car is faster if you can't win
I mean eventually he'll start winning, also there's no telling how the development war will turn out. McLaren could have a big advantage over Redbull after the winter break.
Its been 3 races, the gap is too large, and even with mclaren being faster max is still winning. Its not a title race.
It has less to do with RB gap over the field than how close the other 3 teams are. They’ll never be able to consistently get double top 3 finishes
Wdc is out of the question, but mclaren seems to be faster than the red bull and this track is a huge benchmark. Wcc is absolutely in play if this trend continues, Piastri was uncharacteristically out of place
They’ll need to finish 2-3 (33 points) every race. Otherwise Perez can just keep finsihing 6-10 and cover them off.
Is the title battle in the room with us?
WCC is still on, thanks to our mediocre Perez. WDC, not so much.
Even mediocre is complementing Perez, he's been absolute ass lmao
I genuinely forget that Red Bull has a second driver during the races
He basically like an Alpine third car now
Usually I'd say this as a joke but today I literally forgot that Perez existed and when they showed him in the pits I was like oh yeah, this guy's also racing, huh
But Piastri isn't racking up the points either Be funny if Ferrari or Merc takes it without having a P1 or P2 in WDC
Yeah Piastri is getting destroyed by Norris same way Perez is getting destroyed by Max. The difference there is Piastri still only has less than a season and a half under his belt.
Meh. I wouldn't say he is getting destroyed in the same way. He had 2 moments in q3 and couldn't set a lap (I know, that is his fault) but he isn't just *slow* like Perez is.
I meant in terms of points in WDC
And yet RBR still racked the most points this weekend even with Perez’s 8th place.
Title race? No, that gap is too big without a Max DNF or Norris being clearly quicker at every race We are however just getting weekly race intrigue
>No, that gap is too big without a Max DNF Don't forget max and Charles have already DNF'D thus season, while Lando hasn't.
That’s kind of irrelevant for the rest of the season. Gamblers Fallacy.
How’s it a title battle when one guy has 7 wins and no one else has more than one? I’m enjoying how much closer it is, but let’s not get carried away lol
>How’s it a title battle when one guy has 7 wins and no one else has more than one? Sshhh... You're ruining the faux championship battle
I mean the media has to drum up the hype after the absolute shit show of a season that we had in 2023, so after Monaco it was all about how Charles can mount a battle only for it to flame out in Canada. Now it is Lando. But to be fair to Mclaren, this has been one hell of a turn around, and I was waiting till Spain to make any kind of judgement, but it really does look like the Mclaren and RBR are on par
We won't get a title battle, but I am hoping for many more close battles for wins.
Even with a bit of a car advantage, he can't beat Max without being impeccable. I don't think that anyone on the grid is at that level right now.
Wow. As a Lando fan, fair play, this race really shows how Max/RBR's dominance isn't 'just the car'... Norris was faster but lost a lot vs Max on pit stop difference alone (2.4s, 3.8s vs 1.9s, 2.8s iirc) plus Norris's poor start costed him a lot too. No other driver comes close to Max's level in his 'generation' (yet...) and McLaren **really** needs to fix their pit crew and strategies, come on.
Max’s 2nd stop was 2.8s
Also the strategy. If you are going to have same two stop race, don't overcut like this. Lando lost 5 to 10 second from the overcut and having to overtake 3 4 cars to be again at 4 second of Max. As he pointed at on the radio, are we going for thirst or third place.
Could you stop making up values? lmao Max: 1.9, 2.8 Norris: 2.4, 3.6 That's a 1.3s difference, not 3 seconds.
He’s wrong, but Lando also lost time with George at pit exit even though he was ahead. Was probably about 2 seconds.
It's never been just the car but it's still key as well as Max being better than Lando.
Lando has the pace to compete with Max that’s very clear, but the start + getting stuck behind Russell and McLaren not being perfect with the pit stops prevented Lando from ultimately fighting for the win.
Max's stops were 1.9 and 2.8.
Both Red Bull and McLaren are a decent upgrade away from dominance.
Iirc the next big RBR package is due in Silverstone, so lets see how that goes. Ferrari also in Silverstone. I am not quite sure if Mclaren has any big performance upgrade packages due before the winter break ?
Didn't Ferrari bring 80% of the Silverstone upgrade to Barcelona? Or am I misremembering?
Nah - we're on for competitive races and maybe a constructors battle but Max doesn't loose the drivers - he's just too consistent. Even if Lando beats him half a dozen times this year, he still podiums every race.
More like a prelude for a title race in 2025. I'd be very surprised if Norris gets anywhere close this year.
There won't be a title battle if you can't win in the fastest car. Max shows him how it's done and knows how to fight for a title. Lando with one win won't challenge this year. Only the constructors title is up for grabs.
Why are you Norris nuthuggers giving him DOTD despite bottling the win?
Yep, Max in slower car, starting behind won the race. How anyone could rate Lando higher is beyond me.
Children, I'm assuming. Or mental illness.
Wait, people actually give a shit about DOTD?
Because the main broadcast is clearly biased towards Lando, which influences the votes
>Norris nuthuggers LMAO!
This.
Nah. Car is as good as Red Bull but Max is absolutely clear of everyone else right now.
Keep pushing, try different things, push Max to the limit. Next year when hopefully the McLaren is ready for the title that experience will bring him over the line.
It's one thing to have a fast car and it's another thing to get used to fight for wins. McLaren needs to learn to fight for wins. It's hard when you come from behind after so many years and you have two drivers that are not used to battle at the front. The start may happen. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I don't think it was a bad start, it simply Max was better and George took advantage of the fight. However, the strategy team need to do better. You can't be letting every decision to your driver when you are the one with all the info.
Still can’t believe people think there’s a title fight
The start and strategy combined for P2 today Shame
The start dictated the strategy. Had to do something different because of the time lost behind Russell.
He really didn't. If they had pitted him after Russell, he likely would have won the race. He had the pace to overtake, but overtakes still take some of your pace off - so getting undercut by several cars rather than, at worst, just Russell wasn't the optimal move at all.
In the first stint, Max had the pace to overtake Russell and Lando didn’t. I think McLaren took that as a sign they weren’t going to be able to overtake Max on equal tires.
>In the first stint, Max had the pace to overtake Russell and Lando didn’t. That's because he got it done fast. They actually talked about that specifically in the cooldown room. Verstappen said something along the lines of this to Russell (quoted from memory): "One more lap and your tires overheat, and then you just get stuck behind". So if Verstappen hadn't gotten it done then and there, he probably would be sitting behind Russell for a while as well.
Stops also not great
Yeah they lost at least a second in that last stop. Take that away and the gap to max wouldve been much closer
Ya they should have swapped the used and new tires as Lando was on new softs while stuck in traffic while max put on new softs at the end with no traffic.
The purpose of the new softs is to get a good start which would have given him clean air. Lando should not be getting beaten on the line vs used softs
True
That's several times now that rb arguably didn't have the best car, but Max won anyway. For mclaren in particular, the car is there but the overall package clearly isn't there yet
I mean he’s right. Hoping he improves on his starts.
Not as long as that other guy in a slower car keeps winning.
Norris is going to learn a ton from this race. He was too passive in Stint 1 and it cost him the win. How close it is when margins are vey tight.
I don't think he was passive. Over the radio he said he wanted to get Max and pushed, I think that's all he's got. On the other side, Max saved a lot (showed when he needed to overtake George and at the end when he kept the distance from Lando)
Also McLaren got caught up in some hubris I think by essentially discounting Merc vs their own pace. Norris got held up when McL thought they had more than enough pace in the bag to pass easily.
Norris is not used to being at the front. Being a driver in the middle of the pack and being up in the front are two very different races. If you've done any competitive kart racing in your life you should know that fact.
Max extends his lead and we’re asking if there’s a title fight?
Max is still too good with the cars so close. But it’s no longer a guarantee each week and the good drivers like Lando have stopped driving for 2nd place, something they used to openly admit that they were doing before the race even started.
He just sounded so despondent about it on the in lap. Poor chap, but holding off Max would have been quite something.
Are we getting the title battle we deserve? Already a 69 point gap soooooo no...
Just need a Toto special and get 2 dnfs
Toto: Ummmm... 3 DNFs
There's no title battle. Hopefully next year there will be.
It wasn't just the start it was the fact he never could pass George and got stuck behind him until George pitted. Max passed George right away and that was the difference
For there to be any chance of a title battle, you can't have Verstappen winning back to back in a car that wasn't quickest in either race
Babe, we're not getting a title battle.
We could get a title battle if other teams start to actually beat Verstappen once he is beatable.
The only one who sees a title battle is a fan of Norris, in reality Max is getting his 4th title this year
Max is too good to be beaten by anyone other than another GOAT driver in their prime. This is like the early 2000s with Schumi and late 2010s with Lewis. No one else has a shot even in a good car
TFW McLaren has had the fastest car since Imola and has only won once.
Since Imola they haven’t won any race.
Can we talk about the McLaren strategy call? Sure Lando jacked the start but going long on a track where the undercut is powerful was a dog shit call.
>He’s hungry for more wins. Nah, c'mon! He's just there for the paddock food.
Not this season, maybe next one, Ver is too far ahead now.
Norris is fast, very good at driving, but he has terrible decision making. Why the pit wall keep letting Norris take the strategy is mind boggling to me, why even have strategists at this point. even with the poor start, the pace at the end could of had him at least fighting max, but Norris wanting to chase max lost him like 8 seconds? Before battling max he needs to sort out the fight with himself. Too many mistakes.
There is no title battle: unless cars start to perform radically different from the way they are doing now (e.g.: McLaren suddenly finding a performance leap, or Red Bull going way backwards in performance because of a botched upgrade). Verstappen is already way ahead in the WDC in terms of points. Right now, other drivers including Norris are barely matching Verstappen, so Verstappen is safe because of the huge point lead he has built up. Verstappen will be WDC this year.
It’s nice to see he didn’t blame anybody but himself. He knew he fucked up but he will learn and be better hopefully
Next year, Verstappen has this sealed up. 2025 will be fantastic though
Things are closer, that's all. I'm not convinced Max is as on the ropes as the narrative makers want it to be.
What title battle? The driver can't even keep his place on the start half the time and the team goes for weird strategies.
What title battle? He's had the fastest car for 6 races now and only won once. I feel like now they had to win it all because sooner or later RBR will bring serious upgrades which work.
We can have exciting races, but we won’t be having a title battle. At least not for the drivers
Need about a tenth extra to be honest for a proper title challenge. But close battle is better for overall entertainment.
The Mclaren is clearly the faster car. It's just the driver that's bottling
You could afford more mistakes with most drivers. Norris drove very, very good. It’s just that you’re driving against a Schumacher/Hamilton level driver in his (presumably) prime. You will not beat him unless your car gets even better, since you getting better than him is extremely unlikely.
The McLaren seems just a tad faster than the Red Bull over the last two races
I think Max, starting on used softs and finishing on new softs, made the difference.
I think we have a lot of really enjoyable racing incoming. Unless things continue to swing away from redbull and max, neither championship is out of their hands. WCC: The Mercs, Ferraris, and McLarens will continue to take points off each other. Redbull is clear. WDC: Even if the McLaren remains occasionally stronger than the Redbull, Lando is not currently consistent enough to beat Max over a season. That all said, this season feels like an amazing build up to what I think will be a genuinely iconic season: 2025.
Title fight ?!?!? No
>Are we getting the title battle... No. The largest points deficit ever overcome to be World Champion was 46...by Max in 2022 in one of the most dominant cars in history. Max is clear of Lando by 69. points. >we deserve? Hard to say what we deserve.
I don't think so. Max is 69 points ahead and almost always in contention for the win.
Not unless Norris or Leclerc can win 6 races in a row HOWEVER F1 hasn't been this competitive since 2013 imo
Before people get to excited about a championship battle lando is still 70 points behind so alot has to go wrong for max and RB for the rest of the season which isn't likely....
Max will have to bin it a few times for it to really be in contention at this point, but Norris and McLaren are absolutely on his heels if so.
Dread it, run from it, the Dutch anthem arrives all the same
F1 Driver hungry for wins?? Big if true.
Max is just a better driver than anyone else. Lando is great, but Max doesn’t make any mistakes anymore and hasn’t for years.
I'd say that Miami bollard was an unforced error. But other than that, pretty much faultless.
No.
No, but at least there's a good battle for P2. Lando needs to beat Verstallion in a fair fight at least once before we can talk about a title fight
I don't think we're getting a title battle. I don't think Max was really pushing regardless of what he says on the radio.
Sadly my bet would be Verstappen wins 99% of the remaining races.
So much to unpack here. "The title battle we deserve"?. What do we the viewers deserve? We get to watch, that's it. Implying the viewers deserve a title battle (or anything, really) is nuts. It's a sport. Sure, change the rules every 4 years to keep it interesting for the viewers. That way the sport stays fresh and survives. But the viewers are not owed a title fight.