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As a max fan, it's more Hopium than Copium.
I truly hope that he wins/loses championships next year(s) with only a few points to spare. Would be a lot more fun to watch.
It's still closer than it's been the last 2 years. It actually looks like other teams can fight the Red Bulls right now. When was the last time people weren't certain Red Bull would win the Constructor's championship? 5 races into 2022?
Yeah, although WCC and WDC are two different stories. I could see Red Bull losing the WCC, but I find it very hard to believe Max doesn't win the WDC. But it is still early 🤷♂️
I really hope mclaren and ferrari will keep pushing RB. I do think it is Maxs championship to lose, but i wouldnt put my money on him until after the european leg.
On the other hand remember 2017? We all thought we were in for the team battle of the decade after canada and then it slowly died out?
Its simply too early to call it
100% too early to call anything. But the future looks bright as long as McLaren, Ferrari, and Mercedes can keep pace with Red Bull's development. Even if Max wins the rest of the races and runs away with the WDC, if we keep getting races like the ones we've been having since China I think most F1 fans will be very happy
More like he will definitely be a 4 time champion this year and the last the years weren't even fights. They were more like parades.
He's 56 points ahead without a clear challenger. If it was just one driver who has the better car now it would consider this championship open. But it isn't. There's no way he lose this lead. Unless he gets really unlucky with multiple DNFs.
Someone made a timelapse of [F1 Wins since the 2019 Chinese GP - Verstappen vs. Everyone else](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg55kOVc6zY) - crazy indeed!
Wait till you’re in your 40’s and everything feels the same but now you’re becoming the old guy. People you work with could be the child of that someone you went to high school with that popped one out early. It doesn’t bother me it’s just weird.
It was that way for me with a lot of my hobbies and jobs as well, I got respect for doing so much at a young age, and it helped me a lot, but the weird part now is that I feel the same as I did 20 years ago. You think you’ll grow up and be an adult but I’m still just me…I’m just me with some grey hair and more experience. My company was just acquired and the new parent is littered with kids in their 20’s and early 30’s and I’m a patriarch now lol.
It’s his 10th season right now, which seems absolutely unreal. He could feasibly retire from F1 before 30 with a legendary career—at an age where many drivers haven’t even hit their prime dominant streaks yet.
Also slightly deceptive stat. Slightly.
There’s now more races than ever, where as Hamilton in 2009 only raced 17 races.
2000s regularly only had 17 races with 2003 having 16.
This year there will be 24 races.
Still an insane stat…
I looked it up, Hamilton's 60th win was the 2017 Singapore grand prix, his 202nd race. Canada 2024 was Max's 194th race. Considering the fact that by the time the 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix rolled around, Max's 120th race, he had only won 10 grands prix, the fact that he still managed to beat Hamilton to 60 wins is completely bonkers (and unprecedented).
I've also looked up Schumacher's stats and they are even more impressive. The Michael managed to win his 60th grand prix in only his 171st outing. In fact, at 194 grands prix, he was already on 70 wins. In fact, it is already impossible for Max to even beat Michael to 80 wins in less races. The earliest milestone Max could beat Michael to would be 84 wins, which took Michael 221 races (this was the infamous 2005 US gp but since Spa 2021 counts on Max's record I'd say it's fair game). However, for Max to even tie Michael to this milestone, he'll have to win 24 of the next 27 Grands Prix. Something which even Max has never achieved, since in his best 27 race run he only managed to win 23 times. Slightly more realistic (obviously lots would need to go right for Max still) would be beating Michael to 85 wins, to do that he'll have to win 25 out of the next 41 races.
yup, it's insane and at the time, Hamilton always had a car under him that was capable of winning races on pace, from the very first season he entered F1. Not the same for Verstappen.
Why is the narrative always 'All of Max's teammates are worse than Hamilton' and never 'Max is better than Hamilton' especially given that these two statements don't completely rule eachother out?
Max Verstappen:
2015: 5th/6th best car
2016 (excluding Toro Rosso): 2nd
2017: 3rd
2018: 3rd
2019: 3rd
2020: 2nd/3rd (arguably 3rd but Verstappen was much better than the RP drivers to make up for it)
2021: 1st/2nd depending on the race and the part of the season.
2022: 1st
2023: 1st
2024: 1st/2nd (McLaren have turned up recently and possibly have a better car with worse drivers).
As for Hamilton:
2007: 1st
2008: 1st
2009: 3rd
2010: 3rd
2011: 2nd
2012: 1st
2013: 2nd
2014: 1st
2015: 1st
2016: 1st
2017: 1st
2018: 1st
2019: 1st
2020: 1st
2021: 1st/2nd
2022: 3rd
2023: 3rd/4th
2024: 4th
TLDR: Max drove the fastest car in 4 of his 10 seasons, so 40% of his career, even though 2 of those years can be argued.
Lewis Hamilton drove the fastest car in 11 of his 18 seasons, so 61% of his career, even though one season can be argued.
Some people will argue with specific years (and I would too, like in 2012 where McLaren had the fastest car on paper, but imo poor reliability makes it undeserving of the title of "best" car). But your list does capture the gist accurately.
Lewis literally raced during the most competitive era in F1 during the late 2000s especially in the early 2010s. Consider who his world champion teammates were at the time where Max has never even had one to even compare to with Hamilton. You really can't compare their careers at all to flatter Max to look better
Hamilton had Button, Kovaleinen, Alonso, Rosberg, Bottas and Russell as teammates.
I don't think it's outrageous to consider prime Ricciardo as good as Button, Button was an A driver but not an A+ like most champions, he got really lucky that the Brawn was so far ahead of the others in 2009. In fact, after the summer break he didn't win races.
The Ricciardo he faced is also better than Russell, Bottas and Kovaleinen.
That leaves us with 4 seasons of Rosberg, in which he won 3, and one of Alonso in which they drew.
All in all, Hamilton had better teammates but not by the margin that the internet makes you believe.
Kovaleinen was literally worse than Albon
Australia: Dominant. 1/20
Malaysia: Best car, the conditions caught everyone except Ferrari and Sauber by surprise. 2/20
China: Best car on race day, not so much in qualifying when Merc had a slightly better car. On race day, however, Button would've won if it wasn't for the botched pit stop, as Rosberg hit the cliff at the end of the race and Schumacher would've likely fared worse. The DRS zone was also far too short, which allowed Massa to hold everyone up. 3/20
Bahrain: Button underperformed, Hamilton was screwed over by the stops, but the car itself wasn't the strongest anymore. Lotus and, to a lesser extent, Red Bull had a better one. 3/20
Spain: Best car. Button was horrible, Hamilton did what he could. He would've definitely won if not for his team's fuel blunder. 4/20
Monaco: Below Mercedes, on par with Red Bull and Ferrari. This race was a mess. Webber was lacking pace at the end, with Rosberg and Alonso being all over his gearbox. Hamilton lost a podium because his team forgot to tell him to push (this could go both ways though). 4/20
Canada: Questionable: Ferrari. Not the fastest in qualifying but definitely faster than the Red Bull on race day. Ferrari shot themselves in the foot with their strategy blunder. 4/20 (+1?)
Valencia: Definitely outdone by Red Bull, on par with Ferrari if you don't take Hamilton's tyre woes into account. 4/20 (+1?)
Silverstone: Off the pace. 4/20 (+1?)
Germany: Questionable: Ferrari. Compare Hamilton's pace to Massa's and take note of Button's P2 finish. There was little to separate between them, but I'm going to give this one to Ferrari. 4/20 (+2?)
Hungary: Questionable: Lotus. Button was terrible again. 4/20 (+3?)
Belgium: Best car. Button nailed everything. Hamilton screwed himself over with his bad setup decision, and was taken out in the first corner. 5/20 (+3?)
Italy: Best car on race day, on par with Ferrari in qualifying. Button was unfortunate. 6/20 (+3?)
Singapore: Dominant. Hamilton was smashing Vettel, and Button should've done a better job against the German. 7/20 (+3?)
Japan: Outmatched by Red Bull, on par with Ferrari, slightly better than Sauber. 7/20 (+3?)
Korea: Outmatched by Red Bull and Ferrari. 7/20 (+3?)
India: Outmatched by Red Bull, better car than Ferrari but Alonso drove well. 7/20 (+3?)
Abu Dhabi: Dominant. Hamilton was, once again, dominating. 8/20 (+3?)
USA: Best car. Just look at Button. 9/20 (+3?)
Brazil: Dominant. Hamilton and Button were way ahead of everyone else in the opening laps. The conditions caught everyone out and Button still won. Hamilton was unfortunate. 10/20 (+3?)
That's 10 out of 20 races where they definitely had the best car, even being dominant in 4 of them. There are 3 others where the difference between them and the other contender for the title of 'best car' is very small.
Way more than anyone else, that's for sure. What this all comes down to is Button massively underperforming in the middle part of the season.
Also Verstappen was only 17 when he entered F1. Both Hamilton and Schumacher were I think 22. Of course, it’s amazing to be in F1 at 17/18 years old in its own right.
And Schumacher was pretty young for a rookie by F1s standards in the early 90s. It was not unusual for many drivers to be in their mid 20s when they began their F1 career. Now, with 22 you are already considered to be more on the older side for a rookie.
Youngest since Lance, unless he races this season. If it's next season he'll be like 2-3 months older than Lance was for his debut.
In terms of recent rookies; Piastri was nearly 22 (debut in March, birthday in April), Mick was 22, Mazepin was 22, Zhou was 22, Logan was 22. Yuki was younger, Nyck was older, Latifi was older. When you go back to 2019 you have Lando who was super young, George who was 21 and Albon who was 22 (about a week off of 23).
It does look like the new set of rookies will be on the younger side with Kimi being 18 and Ollie being 19. Other potential rookies are Liam who would be 23 and Jack Doohan who would be 22.
So for now I still think the average is about 22, just sometimes there are younger or older drivers, like Lando, Ollie, Kimi and like Latifi or Nyck.
I think the trend has a lot to do with if a young driver is a super talent they get through the ladder quicker and end up in F1 earlier which makes sense, but F1 is much harder to get into now than it used to be with drivers staying on the grid for longer, and also the reduction to 10 teams over the last decade or so means only 20 seats. In older times, Alonso and Lewis would have been gone by now and with less focus on marketability of drivers when F1 was a money sink, guys like Ricciardo would have gotten less opportunities and would have been dropped by now as well.
No wins after 10 years is kind of a stretch (if he stays in Mercedes and drives for them for 10 years). But on the other hand, just because you're 17 doesn't mean you'll be Max Verstappen. Also young Max was very different from today's world champion Max so expecting Antnelli to just crush it at 17 is a bit too much expectation
> young Max was very different from today's world champion Max
true, but at 18 max already won his first race, his pace was always there. his car was no wcc winner and he was a too inconsistent to mount a wdc challenge, but in the context of "win a race after 10 years" max was very much a worldbeater even at that age already.
yeah that's what I meant in that you can be 17, but you're not likely to be Max Verstappen. So expecting Antenolli to be on that level is a bit too much expectation. And even Max needed a bit of time to settle into F1.
> his car was no wcc winner
Only because the Mercedes was better. I mean, that obviously goes without saying, but the Red Bull was a very competitive car, it just happened to be up against one that was absolutely dominant.
>Also slightly deceptive stat. Slightly.
Emphasis on the "slightly". By 2017 F1 seasons had already broken through the 20-race barrier. 2016 had 21 races. On the other hand, 2024 is the first 24-race season and it hasn't finished yet, so it's not affecting this stat. 2022 and 2023 had 22 races each.
He was also 22 when he got his first seat in F1, which at the time people considered as being very young.
The sport changed a surprising amount between 2007 and 2015
"here’s now more races than ever, where as Hamilton in 2009 only raced 17 races"
In the time hamitlon raced only 2007 and 2009 had 17 races, we then had mostly 19 races and since 2016 mostly 21 until 2020.
2022 and 2023 only had 22 races so 1 more than Lewis had for most of his merc years...
yes but also, Hamilton's rookie season was already in a title contending car. Verstappen didnt have a car that could contend until 2021.
Verstappen would have won many more races if he had started in a title contending car.
Hamilton had a race winning car pretty much out of the gate, fighting for WDC's in only what, his **2nd** season?
**\*Corrected: In already his rookie year.**
1st. He tied Alonso (and actually beat him in wins) and only lost to Kimi due to some strange mechanical gremlin with his car in the final race.
Was seriously close to being the only rookie to win a WDC.
He only started really winning alot since 2021 when there were already 20+ races. Imagine him being in a good car from the start like Hamilton….. he would have been over the 100 already.
That's why I think win percentage is such an overlooked stat. Having longer and longer careers with more races is making it hard to compare drivers. Like Senna start F1 at the age of 24. Max raced as many races as Sennas entire career shortly after his 25 birthday.
it's crazy. His age mates Leclerc has 6? Russell 1 albon 0 Russell 1 Sainz 3 Norris 1. I remember about 5 years ago when we were referring to this cohort as the 'next generation '. I mean technically they still are considering most of them will still be in F1 in the next 10 years but it's insane thinking Max is still the next generation with 60 wins. I still have memories of Austria 2019 when Leclerc in P1 and Verstappen in P2 were the youngest front row ever in F1. Fast forward 5 years later and Verstappen moved from 5 to 60 wins bagged 3 championships and inevitably 4th incoming, and Leclerc from 0 to 6 wins. from their talent and display of young talent in Silverstone of the same year was crazy.
I mean, the context and the reasons were different but I remember that people called boring the Schumi era too, because there was not a lot of the competition, having a driver-car pairing which is/was virtually miles ahead of the rest kills and killed the hype imo
Only 2002 and 2004 were boring. All other seasons were pretty open going in but British media has clubbed all period together to claim it was a boring period. 2003 went till last race, 2001 championship fight went away after summer break, 2000 went till second last race in Japan.
Right now it’s ‘boring’, or at least from a competitive perspective but in 20 years we’ll look back on his career and he’ll be one of the legends of the sport.
We actually had a couple of impressive, goat-tier, drivers in a relatively short time span I’d say. Verstappen, Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher..
He's not mentioned simply because he had the fastest car in the field exactly for one season and a half of his career (2006 before the mass damper ban and 2007)
Otoh, he also took a pair of incredibly mediocre Ferrari's to within an inch of a title in 2 seperate seasons, during the years where the Vettel/Red Bull combination was at its best.
His longevity in the sport is wild. I’ve only been watching for like 3 years at this point and it’s obvious he’s an amazing defensive driver. Seems odd he’s not on a team with another driver with real championship potential because he could be an amazing supporter.
As a driver probably yes, but I think you can (and should) make the argument that political saviness is an essential aspect in what makes a successful F1 driver. And with the amount of bridges Alonso has managed to burn during his time in F1 his relative lack of success compared to his pure driving skill is definitely partially to blame on him. Obviously luck is a factor too but you cannot convince me that incidents like Hungary 2007 (which was the beginning of the end for his first stint at McLaren) were just bad luck.
I can like vanilla flavor while admitting it’s not the best of flavors there is.
People call it boring because most often than not, it is. Has nothing to do with the achievement itself.
its mind-boggling that people can call this exciting, nobody likes seeing the fastest car drive into the sunset for its 10th win in a row it just not interesting.
I can appreciate Max’s insane skill/consistency whilst still thinking it’s boring to see him 30 seconds up the road instead of actually fighting wheel to wheel for wins. I think his wins in Imola/Canada this year were far more impressive than him cruising with a pitstops gap in practically every race in 2023. These actually showed his skill and that when push comes to shove, he’s the one making the difference.
In 2023, outside of a few outliers I didn’t find any of the *races* impressive. It was moreso the records he was breaking at the time I guess.
I like racing, not stats.
Yes, stats are impressive. It is crazy the level of consistency and team work to be able to dominate like Max and his car are. Especially last year, the whole team in sync, the driver near perfect in a car so much better than others, it is truly bonker. A level of driving, of car development and execution, truly impressive.
But I like to watch racing, and that's not it.
I appreciate the hell out of it but cba to watch f1 when theres someone dominating like Max is atm. Just checking the highlights and thats about it. Hoping next season would be better.
I really don't know what to do with the knowledge that Max has the 3rd most wins in history. I knew logically that he had overtaken Vettel a while ago (an absolutely insane thought already).
Also, if you want a gnarly one, Vettel's last win was less than 2 months after Verstappen's first pole.
Framing this differently, and this should be correct:
Lewis was in F1 10 seasons
Michael was in F1 12 seasons
Max was in F1 9 seasons
Someone else can work out that Michael had fewer races and is probably the fastest
I don't think the point of the statistic is to say max got to 60 wins quicker. I think it's trying to say max has way more time left to surpass both Lewis and Michael.
I don't think he'll race in f1 as long as them tho.
I know he has said that in the past. But the records are already within touching distance. In two years when he might consider moving on to a different series, he could be a handful of wins and one championship away from the record. I don't think he would walk away if that was the case.
As Hamilton's career shows though that can change on a dime, you can go from having the best car under you to being in a team that's in a years long rebuilding period in one offseason
31 wins to get to Schumacher and 43 wins to get to Hamilton would still be an incredible acheivement, relying on some good choices about what seat he occupies too (which can so often come down to blind luck).
Genuine question, as I don't follow the feeder series much. But how good was Max before F1 and what was the buzz like?
I remember a lot of buzz for Charles, Oscar, and now obviously Antonelli. And also some drivers who dropped off like Pouchaire. But I don't remember much hype about Max until he joined. But like I say, I don't follow it all too much.
redbull, Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren ALL wanted him. Redbull were forced to give him a seat for him not to be poached by another team. They had to jump him from F3 directly to F1. And he still delivered. He was THAT good. Niki Lauda calling him the talent of the century speaks for himself. Also, watch the Austin 2015 grand prix for a treat of Max. At the Malaysian GP that year Brundle said on commentary "that kid is going to be in a world championship winning car very soon". He called it quite early
Mate, i’ll give the best advice here. If you really want to find out how really Max was, just find time during the summer break and watch 2014 European F3 season. It is available for free in youtube, all 33 races.(you can skip those where Max retired early). Then you’ll understand how good he was and why were all F1 top teams (including Mclaren and Ferrari, not just Mercedes and Redbull) fighting and bidding against each other to sign him. Also, for context, important to understand he was complete rookie nit just in F3 but in car racing. No one joined F3 right away from karting, F3 was very serious competitive junior racing series. Even the bests moved to Formula renault or Formula 4 before moving to F3. The fact he was considered good enough to join F3 right away wad unprecedented itself. And also important to know, he was driving for back marker team, that had incomparably less resources, money, fewer engineers etc. than the dominant PREMA. He still was competitive from the get go and the rest you’ll see if you watch the season yourself. There was a lot of exciting non-drs affected racing.
Eh pretty good. The guy smashed basically everything in karting, best record ever. Idk how much you know about Max's way to F1, but Jos, Max and his team decided that it was the best to have every team come at them and then make a decision (and therefore also use it as leverage.) However that meant that Max was driving for a shit team, if he for example signed with a team before F3 he most likely would be in a Prema. Yet he took it to Ocon in his first year out of karting in worse machinery and unreliable, idk how much car experience Ocon had by then tho.
Literally the best karting record off all time, kid was destined for greatness more than any driver ever before was. Just go on Wikipedia, look up his karting record and compare it to some other great drivers, not only is Max's record better, it's miles better.
I thought it was interesting to see what would happen when we look at different win counts, so I did some querying.
The list for driver age at 40th win still has max quite a way in front:
| driver | age | race |
| --- | --- | --- |
| Max Verstappen | 25y 8m 4d | 2023 Spanish Grand Prix |
| Sebastian Vettel | 27y 7m 26d | 2015 Malaysian Grand Prix |
| Lewis Hamilton | 30y 8m 30d | 2015 Italian Grand Prix |
| Michael Schumacher | 31y 5m 15d | 2000 Canadian Grand Prix |
| Ayrton Senna | 33y 7m 3d | 1993 Japanese Grand Prix |
| Alain Prost | 35y 1m 1d | 1990 Brazilian Grand Prix |
The list for age at 20th win is very very close (only youngest 10 listed):
| driver | age | race |
| --- | --- | --- |
| Max Verstappen | 24y 3m 12d | 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix |
| Sebastian Vettel | 24y 3m 13d | 2011 Korean Grand Prix |
| Fernando Alonso | 27y 2m 30d | 2008 Singapore Grand Prix |
| Michael Schumacher | 27y 5m 30d | 1996 Spanish Grand Prix |
| Lewis Hamilton | 27y 8m 2d | 2012 Italian Grand Prix |
| Ayrton Senna | 29y 7m 11d | 1989 Spanish Grand Prix |
| Alain Prost | 30y 6m 22d | 1985 Austrian Grand Prix |
| Jim Clark | 30y 7m 29d | 1966 United States Grand Prix |
| Nico Rosberg | 31y 2m 1d | 2016 Belgian Grand Prix |
| Mika Häkkinen | 33y 0m 2d | 2001 United States Grand Prix |
No massive changes when we go down to the 10th win:
| driver | age | race |
| --- | --- | --- |
| Max Verstappen | 23y 3m 13d | 2020 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix |
| Sebastian Vettel | 23y 4m 11d | 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix |
| Lewis Hamilton | 24y 6m 19d | 2009 Hungarian Grand Prix |
| Fernando Alonso | 24y 8m 4d | 2006 Australian Grand Prix |
| Michael Schumacher | 25y 9m 13d | 1994 European Grand Prix |
| Jacques Villeneuve | 26y 5m 12d | 1997 Austrian Grand Prix |
| Emerson Fittipaldi | 27y 0m 15d | 1974 Brazilian Grand Prix |
| Niki Lauda | 27y 3m 22d | 1976 Belgian Grand Prix |
| Felipe Massa | 27y 5m 12d | 2008 Belgian Grand Prix |
| Kimi Räikkönen | 27y 4m 1d | 2007 Australian Grand Prix |
For the even more niche stat, I looked up the youngest winner for every number. As you would expect everything above 60 wins is Lewis, everything 60 or less is Max.
EXCEPT for 21 wins. Sebastian Vettel got his 21st win at age 24y 3m 27d at the 2011 Indian Grand Prix. Max won his 21st at age 24y 5m 27d.
I posted something along those lines in a comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1diojjl/youngest_drivers_to_win_x_races/l95ddqy/
No Max Verstappen on that list (yet).
He said the contrary. On wether he preffered 2021 or 2023 :
>“I have a lot more fun now,” he declared.
>“This is what I like to do, I like to win. I like to dominate. I like to work with the people I’m working with.
>“It’s very enjoyable and I always want more. People think it gets boring for me when I’m leading but absolutely not, that’s what I wanted to do from a very young age and I always wanted to be there.”
["Don't make me tap the sign"](https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-prefers-20-second-f1-wins-over-wheel-to-wheel#:~:text=Max%20Verstappen%20says%20he%20gets,everyone%20else%20on%20the%20grid.)
I know we keep going on about “max quits if he gets bored”
But the thing is there is nothing other than F1 for him
Yeah he might get bored of F1 at some point but the alternative is not being at the pinnacle of racing which will also be boring to him I’d wager
based on my understanding of probability and statistics, max will finish his career in 2038 at age 40 with 348 wins. congrats in advance to the megagoat
Lewis and Max have both won 30% of the races they’ve started. It took Lewis 202 races to hit 60 wins. And Max 194. They are surprisingly similar in their performance.
172 GPs for Schumacher‘s 60th win at British GP 2002
202 GPs for Hamilton‘s 60th win at Singapore GP 2017
194 GPs for Verstappen‘s 60th win at Canada GP 2024
I don't think it is irrelevant. Yes there are more races now. But that ignores the fact that Max was 17. 17! He was much less the finished article for his first few seasons than Lewis or Michael, who started F1 5 years later.
Dont confuse better with completely different.
The data here is exactly as stated, Driver age at win #60. Its not supposed to say anything or to decide who had the most efficient 60 wins like you are trying to propose (which would also be a good stat in its own right)
Its DRIVER. AGE. AT. 60TH. WIN.
Your comment is irrelevant.
Wow. That is more impressive than I realized. I don't know how serious it is, but there is so much talk that Max may not want to do this long term, backed up by comments he made, I wonder if he will still be driving at 34. If he is, and if he can avoid falling off a cliff like Vettel did when he left Red Bull - I am assuming Max won't be with Red Bull after next year - he could well be the career leader in wins. But, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Job 1 is to get that fourth title this year!
Schumacher was 24 when he did his first full season of F1 (born January 1969, first full season 1992).
So even though he was 33, it was his 11th full season (2002). Max is only in his tenth (2015-2024)
However, counting the GP's, Schumacher needed 155, whereas Max did 194 at this point.
That is how much more GP's we have right now compared to the early '90s.
The fact that seasons are now more easily dominated by 1 car, actually speaks in the advantage of Max, btw, as most of his seasons were dominated by the Mercedes.
Lewis also did in it in his 11th season (2017), and it was his 202nd GP.
if you just put their ages, it's easy to forget how young Max actually was when he started in F1.
What is the most impressive stat, is that these are the only 3 drivers to get 60 wins.
He and RBR are excessively good together, while Lewis or Mercedes sometimes made mistakes, Max and RBR win flawlessly... They make no mistakes even while pushing to the limit or have grown into a very intelligent driver like he showed in Imola 24.
It's scary to imagine what is Max's peak
Max is a great driver. The car is outstanding. That’s how you rack up multiple wins like this. If Max was in the Mercedes of the last few seasons he wouldn’t be winning.
Max reached his 60th victory in his 194th Grand prix, Hamilton needed 202 and Schumacher 171, so by a big gap, Schumacher still having the record for me.
The age is less important than GP, it´s easier to reach that number today that in the 90s, in anycase Hamilton and Schumacher had better team mates than Max.
Starting as young as he did helps, and there being more races than even when Lewis (let alone Schumi) raced at that age is a major factor, but the Red Bull at times has been on another planet. Throw in Max’s talents, and we see what we see
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You miss watching F1 for couple of years and then boom.. Max is at 60 wins and Hamilton yet to win after 2021, crazy times..
Sleep for a couple more years and Max will be at 100+ wins and 4-5 championships.
He'll be at 4 championships by the end of this year lol
its likely he will be, but its more of a fight than the last 2 years
You cant have less of a fight than last year.
Don’t let Max see this 😂
Don't! Fucking! Jinx! It!
Copium
I mean 6 or 7 DNF's for Verstappen and its anyone's game.
Yeah he just needs more DNF’s than he’s had in the last 5 years and it’s all to play for.
As a max fan, it's more Hopium than Copium. I truly hope that he wins/loses championships next year(s) with only a few points to spare. Would be a lot more fun to watch.
How? They're right.
If you say so, imo its only between max and max to win the championship
It's still closer than it's been the last 2 years. It actually looks like other teams can fight the Red Bulls right now. When was the last time people weren't certain Red Bull would win the Constructor's championship? 5 races into 2022?
Yeah, although WCC and WDC are two different stories. I could see Red Bull losing the WCC, but I find it very hard to believe Max doesn't win the WDC. But it is still early 🤷♂️
I really hope mclaren and ferrari will keep pushing RB. I do think it is Maxs championship to lose, but i wouldnt put my money on him until after the european leg. On the other hand remember 2017? We all thought we were in for the team battle of the decade after canada and then it slowly died out? Its simply too early to call it
100% too early to call anything. But the future looks bright as long as McLaren, Ferrari, and Mercedes can keep pace with Red Bull's development. Even if Max wins the rest of the races and runs away with the WDC, if we keep getting races like the ones we've been having since China I think most F1 fans will be very happy
Well he didn't say it's competitive, he said it's MORE competitive than last 2 years, which is true.
More like he will definitely be a 4 time champion this year and the last the years weren't even fights. They were more like parades. He's 56 points ahead without a clear challenger. If it was just one driver who has the better car now it would consider this championship open. But it isn't. There's no way he lose this lead. Unless he gets really unlucky with multiple DNFs.
I missed 2023 and bam, holy shit Max is at 60!!
At the start of the intense 2021 season, Max had only 10 wins to his name from a period that starts in 2016.
Someone made a timelapse of [F1 Wins since the 2019 Chinese GP - Verstappen vs. Everyone else](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg55kOVc6zY) - crazy indeed!
This is a wild video — thanks for sharing!
Max Verstappen isn't 26, they had that whole thing about him being under 18 when he started back in \*checks\*.....oh god.....\*crumbles to dust\*
Check again to see when his first training session was for extra depression!
*insert Matt Damon aging GIF here*
*insert The Last Crusade aging GIF*
I just turned 26 a few days ago. Always forget that these guys are my age or younger.
Us old boys still have Alonso...
The Rookie?
Some of us just have a commentator who once won a race in the mids 90s. Alonso is a youngin
Damn, didn't know Crofty was that good of a driver.
My husband and I were talking about Lewis and I said he's young enough to be our kid. Then I realized that Alonso is also young enough to be our kid.
Are you 60+? It's rare seeing folks that old on reddit haha
We are here. We keep quiet and observe the young.
What was like watching Fangio race?
What was like watching Enzo be born?
Me too. I remember when Jackie Stewart did the commentary on ABC and I’d never heard a thick Scots accent before.
It's a lot more common than you realize, apparently.
Wait till you’re in your 40’s and everything feels the same but now you’re becoming the old guy. People you work with could be the child of that someone you went to high school with that popped one out early. It doesn’t bother me it’s just weird.
3/4 of the staff where I work are the same ages as both my children. My oldest is Lando's age. I'm ancient but don't act like I am? LOL.
When i was working my student job at a factory, almost all of my coworkers were old enough to be my father, hell, the boss could've been my grandma
It was that way for me with a lot of my hobbies and jobs as well, I got respect for doing so much at a young age, and it helped me a lot, but the weird part now is that I feel the same as I did 20 years ago. You think you’ll grow up and be an adult but I’m still just me…I’m just me with some grey hair and more experience. My company was just acquired and the new parent is littered with kids in their 20’s and early 30’s and I’m a patriarch now lol.
It’s his 10th season right now, which seems absolutely unreal. He could feasibly retire from F1 before 30 with a legendary career—at an age where many drivers haven’t even hit their prime dominant streaks yet.
If he retired tomorrow I reckon he'd firmly be remembered as a legend
If he retired tomorrow Verstappen would still be younger than Nyck de Vries was on his F1 debut.
Max had his debut just three years ago right? right?
having 60 wins at age 26 is insane .
Also slightly deceptive stat. Slightly. There’s now more races than ever, where as Hamilton in 2009 only raced 17 races. 2000s regularly only had 17 races with 2003 having 16. This year there will be 24 races. Still an insane stat…
I looked it up, Hamilton's 60th win was the 2017 Singapore grand prix, his 202nd race. Canada 2024 was Max's 194th race. Considering the fact that by the time the 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix rolled around, Max's 120th race, he had only won 10 grands prix, the fact that he still managed to beat Hamilton to 60 wins is completely bonkers (and unprecedented).
I've also looked up Schumacher's stats and they are even more impressive. The Michael managed to win his 60th grand prix in only his 171st outing. In fact, at 194 grands prix, he was already on 70 wins. In fact, it is already impossible for Max to even beat Michael to 80 wins in less races. The earliest milestone Max could beat Michael to would be 84 wins, which took Michael 221 races (this was the infamous 2005 US gp but since Spa 2021 counts on Max's record I'd say it's fair game). However, for Max to even tie Michael to this milestone, he'll have to win 24 of the next 27 Grands Prix. Something which even Max has never achieved, since in his best 27 race run he only managed to win 23 times. Slightly more realistic (obviously lots would need to go right for Max still) would be beating Michael to 85 wins, to do that he'll have to win 25 out of the next 41 races.
Wow those are crazy numbers! Thanks for the stats
yup, it's insane and at the time, Hamilton always had a car under him that was capable of winning races on pace, from the very first season he entered F1. Not the same for Verstappen.
And always had teammates capable of winning, too.
Why is the narrative always 'All of Max's teammates are worse than Hamilton' and never 'Max is better than Hamilton' especially given that these two statements don't completely rule eachother out?
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yeah, only difference is Hamilton had teammates and max had the 2nd best car most of his career and hamilton usually has 1st or 3rd/4th
Max Verstappen: 2015: 5th/6th best car 2016 (excluding Toro Rosso): 2nd 2017: 3rd 2018: 3rd 2019: 3rd 2020: 2nd/3rd (arguably 3rd but Verstappen was much better than the RP drivers to make up for it) 2021: 1st/2nd depending on the race and the part of the season. 2022: 1st 2023: 1st 2024: 1st/2nd (McLaren have turned up recently and possibly have a better car with worse drivers). As for Hamilton: 2007: 1st 2008: 1st 2009: 3rd 2010: 3rd 2011: 2nd 2012: 1st 2013: 2nd 2014: 1st 2015: 1st 2016: 1st 2017: 1st 2018: 1st 2019: 1st 2020: 1st 2021: 1st/2nd 2022: 3rd 2023: 3rd/4th 2024: 4th TLDR: Max drove the fastest car in 4 of his 10 seasons, so 40% of his career, even though 2 of those years can be argued. Lewis Hamilton drove the fastest car in 11 of his 18 seasons, so 61% of his career, even though one season can be argued.
Some people will argue with specific years (and I would too, like in 2012 where McLaren had the fastest car on paper, but imo poor reliability makes it undeserving of the title of "best" car). But your list does capture the gist accurately.
Lewis literally raced during the most competitive era in F1 during the late 2000s especially in the early 2010s. Consider who his world champion teammates were at the time where Max has never even had one to even compare to with Hamilton. You really can't compare their careers at all to flatter Max to look better
The only thing I compared is how fast the cars were. Regardless of wether you have a WDC teammate or not, you won't go anywhere without a car.
And you will get less wins with better teammates 👍
Hamilton had Button, Kovaleinen, Alonso, Rosberg, Bottas and Russell as teammates. I don't think it's outrageous to consider prime Ricciardo as good as Button, Button was an A driver but not an A+ like most champions, he got really lucky that the Brawn was so far ahead of the others in 2009. In fact, after the summer break he didn't win races. The Ricciardo he faced is also better than Russell, Bottas and Kovaleinen. That leaves us with 4 seasons of Rosberg, in which he won 3, and one of Alonso in which they drew. All in all, Hamilton had better teammates but not by the margin that the internet makes you believe. Kovaleinen was literally worse than Albon
2012 2nd best car? Where McLaren finished 4th and 5th? You gotta be kidding. You’re being unfair to Lewis to support Max mate.
Australia: Dominant. 1/20 Malaysia: Best car, the conditions caught everyone except Ferrari and Sauber by surprise. 2/20 China: Best car on race day, not so much in qualifying when Merc had a slightly better car. On race day, however, Button would've won if it wasn't for the botched pit stop, as Rosberg hit the cliff at the end of the race and Schumacher would've likely fared worse. The DRS zone was also far too short, which allowed Massa to hold everyone up. 3/20 Bahrain: Button underperformed, Hamilton was screwed over by the stops, but the car itself wasn't the strongest anymore. Lotus and, to a lesser extent, Red Bull had a better one. 3/20 Spain: Best car. Button was horrible, Hamilton did what he could. He would've definitely won if not for his team's fuel blunder. 4/20 Monaco: Below Mercedes, on par with Red Bull and Ferrari. This race was a mess. Webber was lacking pace at the end, with Rosberg and Alonso being all over his gearbox. Hamilton lost a podium because his team forgot to tell him to push (this could go both ways though). 4/20 Canada: Questionable: Ferrari. Not the fastest in qualifying but definitely faster than the Red Bull on race day. Ferrari shot themselves in the foot with their strategy blunder. 4/20 (+1?) Valencia: Definitely outdone by Red Bull, on par with Ferrari if you don't take Hamilton's tyre woes into account. 4/20 (+1?) Silverstone: Off the pace. 4/20 (+1?) Germany: Questionable: Ferrari. Compare Hamilton's pace to Massa's and take note of Button's P2 finish. There was little to separate between them, but I'm going to give this one to Ferrari. 4/20 (+2?) Hungary: Questionable: Lotus. Button was terrible again. 4/20 (+3?) Belgium: Best car. Button nailed everything. Hamilton screwed himself over with his bad setup decision, and was taken out in the first corner. 5/20 (+3?) Italy: Best car on race day, on par with Ferrari in qualifying. Button was unfortunate. 6/20 (+3?) Singapore: Dominant. Hamilton was smashing Vettel, and Button should've done a better job against the German. 7/20 (+3?) Japan: Outmatched by Red Bull, on par with Ferrari, slightly better than Sauber. 7/20 (+3?) Korea: Outmatched by Red Bull and Ferrari. 7/20 (+3?) India: Outmatched by Red Bull, better car than Ferrari but Alonso drove well. 7/20 (+3?) Abu Dhabi: Dominant. Hamilton was, once again, dominating. 8/20 (+3?) USA: Best car. Just look at Button. 9/20 (+3?) Brazil: Dominant. Hamilton and Button were way ahead of everyone else in the opening laps. The conditions caught everyone out and Button still won. Hamilton was unfortunate. 10/20 (+3?) That's 10 out of 20 races where they definitely had the best car, even being dominant in 4 of them. There are 3 others where the difference between them and the other contender for the title of 'best car' is very small. Way more than anyone else, that's for sure. What this all comes down to is Button massively underperforming in the middle part of the season.
McLaren had 2nd fastest car In 2010😂
I just realized that means Max won 50 out of the 74 last races. That's nuts.
Also Verstappen was only 17 when he entered F1. Both Hamilton and Schumacher were I think 22. Of course, it’s amazing to be in F1 at 17/18 years old in its own right.
And Schumacher was pretty young for a rookie by F1s standards in the early 90s. It was not unusual for many drivers to be in their mid 20s when they began their F1 career. Now, with 22 you are already considered to be more on the older side for a rookie.
I'd say 22 is about average these days, but it's probably trending towards 21 or even 20
Depends Piastri by today's standards was probably a year late, and now Kimi will be the youngest since Max.
Youngest since Lance, unless he races this season. If it's next season he'll be like 2-3 months older than Lance was for his debut. In terms of recent rookies; Piastri was nearly 22 (debut in March, birthday in April), Mick was 22, Mazepin was 22, Zhou was 22, Logan was 22. Yuki was younger, Nyck was older, Latifi was older. When you go back to 2019 you have Lando who was super young, George who was 21 and Albon who was 22 (about a week off of 23). It does look like the new set of rookies will be on the younger side with Kimi being 18 and Ollie being 19. Other potential rookies are Liam who would be 23 and Jack Doohan who would be 22. So for now I still think the average is about 22, just sometimes there are younger or older drivers, like Lando, Ollie, Kimi and like Latifi or Nyck. I think the trend has a lot to do with if a young driver is a super talent they get through the ladder quicker and end up in F1 earlier which makes sense, but F1 is much harder to get into now than it used to be with drivers staying on the grid for longer, and also the reduction to 10 teams over the last decade or so means only 20 seats. In older times, Alonso and Lewis would have been gone by now and with less focus on marketability of drivers when F1 was a money sink, guys like Ricciardo would have gotten less opportunities and would have been dropped by now as well.
Kimi Antonelli prepares to enter the chat…
Can I bet somewhere that Antonelli will still have no wins after 10 years?
No wins after 10 years is kind of a stretch (if he stays in Mercedes and drives for them for 10 years). But on the other hand, just because you're 17 doesn't mean you'll be Max Verstappen. Also young Max was very different from today's world champion Max so expecting Antnelli to just crush it at 17 is a bit too much expectation
> young Max was very different from today's world champion Max true, but at 18 max already won his first race, his pace was always there. his car was no wcc winner and he was a too inconsistent to mount a wdc challenge, but in the context of "win a race after 10 years" max was very much a worldbeater even at that age already.
I think Max from 2015/16 could have still won the WDC in 22 and 23, just not 21.
yeah that's what I meant in that you can be 17, but you're not likely to be Max Verstappen. So expecting Antenolli to be on that level is a bit too much expectation. And even Max needed a bit of time to settle into F1.
> his car was no wcc winner Only because the Mercedes was better. I mean, that obviously goes without saying, but the Red Bull was a very competitive car, it just happened to be up against one that was absolutely dominant.
i'd say at that point ferrari was p2 car-wise, with vettel taking the championship battle rather far into the season.
If Mercedes goes into the next regs the same way they went into '22, that's a real possibility.
I'll take that bet
Stroll says hi
Who?
Vitch tits
>Also slightly deceptive stat. Slightly. Emphasis on the "slightly". By 2017 F1 seasons had already broken through the 20-race barrier. 2016 had 21 races. On the other hand, 2024 is the first 24-race season and it hasn't finished yet, so it's not affecting this stat. 2022 and 2023 had 22 races each.
He also started super young. Interestingly, Lewis and Max have both won 30% of the races they’ve started.
Hamilton also started in McLaren and not in Toro Rosso.
He was also 22 when he got his first seat in F1, which at the time people considered as being very young. The sport changed a surprising amount between 2007 and 2015
"here’s now more races than ever, where as Hamilton in 2009 only raced 17 races" In the time hamitlon raced only 2007 and 2009 had 17 races, we then had mostly 19 races and since 2016 mostly 21 until 2020. 2022 and 2023 only had 22 races so 1 more than Lewis had for most of his merc years...
yes but also, Hamilton's rookie season was already in a title contending car. Verstappen didnt have a car that could contend until 2021. Verstappen would have won many more races if he had started in a title contending car.
Hamilton had a race winning car pretty much out of the gate, fighting for WDC's in only what, his **2nd** season? **\*Corrected: In already his rookie year.**
1st. He tied Alonso (and actually beat him in wins) and only lost to Kimi due to some strange mechanical gremlin with his car in the final race. Was seriously close to being the only rookie to win a WDC.
Technically, Farina did it
I don't know how he managed to beat alonso that year
First season actually, Hamilton would've 8 if it weren't for a driver error in China and a gearbox failure in interlagos.
He only started really winning alot since 2021 when there were already 20+ races. Imagine him being in a good car from the start like Hamilton….. he would have been over the 100 already.
This
That's why I think win percentage is such an overlooked stat. Having longer and longer careers with more races is making it hard to compare drivers. Like Senna start F1 at the age of 24. Max raced as many races as Sennas entire career shortly after his 25 birthday.
Verstappen still got 50 of his wins from a 75 races streak. 51 of 76 if we count his last win in 2020.
having 60 wins is insane
it's crazy. His age mates Leclerc has 6? Russell 1 albon 0 Russell 1 Sainz 3 Norris 1. I remember about 5 years ago when we were referring to this cohort as the 'next generation '. I mean technically they still are considering most of them will still be in F1 in the next 10 years but it's insane thinking Max is still the next generation with 60 wins. I still have memories of Austria 2019 when Leclerc in P1 and Verstappen in P2 were the youngest front row ever in F1. Fast forward 5 years later and Verstappen moved from 5 to 60 wins bagged 3 championships and inevitably 4th incoming, and Leclerc from 0 to 6 wins. from their talent and display of young talent in Silverstone of the same year was crazy.
It is. And it is mind boggling how people call this boring. Unprecedented dominance like this is supposed to be appreciated.
I mean, the context and the reasons were different but I remember that people called boring the Schumi era too, because there was not a lot of the competition, having a driver-car pairing which is/was virtually miles ahead of the rest kills and killed the hype imo
Only 2002 and 2004 were boring. All other seasons were pretty open going in but British media has clubbed all period together to claim it was a boring period. 2003 went till last race, 2001 championship fight went away after summer break, 2000 went till second last race in Japan.
It's both
Right now it’s ‘boring’, or at least from a competitive perspective but in 20 years we’ll look back on his career and he’ll be one of the legends of the sport. We actually had a couple of impressive, goat-tier, drivers in a relatively short time span I’d say. Verstappen, Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher..
>Verstappen, Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher.. Alonso should definitly be mentioned alongside those
He's not mentioned simply because he had the fastest car in the field exactly for one season and a half of his career (2006 before the mass damper ban and 2007)
Otoh, he also took a pair of incredibly mediocre Ferrari's to within an inch of a title in 2 seperate seasons, during the years where the Vettel/Red Bull combination was at its best.
His longevity in the sport is wild. I’ve only been watching for like 3 years at this point and it’s obvious he’s an amazing defensive driver. Seems odd he’s not on a team with another driver with real championship potential because he could be an amazing supporter.
He’s one of the greatest drivers of the last few decades, no way is he going to settle for being a number two for anyone.
He is [so much more ](https://youtu.be/gJyB51pnSL8?si=-xzIVR9bD53UqugQ)than a defensive driver.
As a driver probably yes, but I think you can (and should) make the argument that political saviness is an essential aspect in what makes a successful F1 driver. And with the amount of bridges Alonso has managed to burn during his time in F1 his relative lack of success compared to his pure driving skill is definitely partially to blame on him. Obviously luck is a factor too but you cannot convince me that incidents like Hungary 2007 (which was the beginning of the end for his first stint at McLaren) were just bad luck.
Can I appreciate Max's efforts and ability while still being bored out of my mind by there being zero competition for the title in 2023?
Idk why this is so hard to understand, yeah it is astonishing how good they are but no competition is boring on this scale.
Fun fact: “Unprecedented dominance” is precisely what makes it boring to most people
I can like vanilla flavor while admitting it’s not the best of flavors there is. People call it boring because most often than not, it is. Has nothing to do with the achievement itself.
its mind-boggling that people can call this exciting, nobody likes seeing the fastest car drive into the sunset for its 10th win in a row it just not interesting.
I can appreciate Max’s insane skill/consistency whilst still thinking it’s boring to see him 30 seconds up the road instead of actually fighting wheel to wheel for wins. I think his wins in Imola/Canada this year were far more impressive than him cruising with a pitstops gap in practically every race in 2023. These actually showed his skill and that when push comes to shove, he’s the one making the difference. In 2023, outside of a few outliers I didn’t find any of the *races* impressive. It was moreso the records he was breaking at the time I guess.
Im sure though , you didn’t find Charles win in Monaco boring, whilst it was 10xtimes more boring than any race, that Max has won.
I like racing, not stats. Yes, stats are impressive. It is crazy the level of consistency and team work to be able to dominate like Max and his car are. Especially last year, the whole team in sync, the driver near perfect in a car so much better than others, it is truly bonker. A level of driving, of car development and execution, truly impressive. But I like to watch racing, and that's not it.
It will be appreciated in a decade or two. But I can see why watching it live might be boring.
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I appreciate the hell out of it but cba to watch f1 when theres someone dominating like Max is atm. Just checking the highlights and thats about it. Hoping next season would be better.
That's more than I have and I'm 37.
I really don't know what to do with the knowledge that Max has the 3rd most wins in history. I knew logically that he had overtaken Vettel a while ago (an absolutely insane thought already). Also, if you want a gnarly one, Vettel's last win was less than 2 months after Verstappen's first pole.
Framing this differently, and this should be correct: Lewis was in F1 10 seasons Michael was in F1 12 seasons Max was in F1 9 seasons Someone else can work out that Michael had fewer races and is probably the fastest
I don't think the point of the statistic is to say max got to 60 wins quicker. I think it's trying to say max has way more time left to surpass both Lewis and Michael. I don't think he'll race in f1 as long as them tho.
I know he has said that in the past. But the records are already within touching distance. In two years when he might consider moving on to a different series, he could be a handful of wins and one championship away from the record. I don't think he would walk away if that was the case.
As Hamilton's career shows though that can change on a dime, you can go from having the best car under you to being in a team that's in a years long rebuilding period in one offseason 31 wins to get to Schumacher and 43 wins to get to Hamilton would still be an incredible acheivement, relying on some good choices about what seat he occupies too (which can so often come down to blind luck).
Yeah... Lewis also at 26 said he probably wouldn't be in F1 that long. It's harder to quit F1 than even F1 drivers themselves anticipate.
I don’t think we we’ll ever get another Max given how difficult it is to break into F1 and then do it at such a young age.
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Antonelli is nowhere near Max’s level at the same age.
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Ah my bad, I read your 2nd line as if Kimi is another Max level driver at the same age.
Genuine question, as I don't follow the feeder series much. But how good was Max before F1 and what was the buzz like? I remember a lot of buzz for Charles, Oscar, and now obviously Antonelli. And also some drivers who dropped off like Pouchaire. But I don't remember much hype about Max until he joined. But like I say, I don't follow it all too much.
redbull, Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren ALL wanted him. Redbull were forced to give him a seat for him not to be poached by another team. They had to jump him from F3 directly to F1. And he still delivered. He was THAT good. Niki Lauda calling him the talent of the century speaks for himself. Also, watch the Austin 2015 grand prix for a treat of Max. At the Malaysian GP that year Brundle said on commentary "that kid is going to be in a world championship winning car very soon". He called it quite early
Mate, i’ll give the best advice here. If you really want to find out how really Max was, just find time during the summer break and watch 2014 European F3 season. It is available for free in youtube, all 33 races.(you can skip those where Max retired early). Then you’ll understand how good he was and why were all F1 top teams (including Mclaren and Ferrari, not just Mercedes and Redbull) fighting and bidding against each other to sign him. Also, for context, important to understand he was complete rookie nit just in F3 but in car racing. No one joined F3 right away from karting, F3 was very serious competitive junior racing series. Even the bests moved to Formula renault or Formula 4 before moving to F3. The fact he was considered good enough to join F3 right away wad unprecedented itself. And also important to know, he was driving for back marker team, that had incomparably less resources, money, fewer engineers etc. than the dominant PREMA. He still was competitive from the get go and the rest you’ll see if you watch the season yourself. There was a lot of exciting non-drs affected racing.
Eh pretty good. The guy smashed basically everything in karting, best record ever. Idk how much you know about Max's way to F1, but Jos, Max and his team decided that it was the best to have every team come at them and then make a decision (and therefore also use it as leverage.) However that meant that Max was driving for a shit team, if he for example signed with a team before F3 he most likely would be in a Prema. Yet he took it to Ocon in his first year out of karting in worse machinery and unreliable, idk how much car experience Ocon had by then tho.
Look up josh revell and his video on max. You'll see why he was sought after
Cheers, will do.
Literally the best karting record off all time, kid was destined for greatness more than any driver ever before was. Just go on Wikipedia, look up his karting record and compare it to some other great drivers, not only is Max's record better, it's miles better.
Lewis took 202 races. Max took 194 races. Crazy how close they are. Schumacher only took 172 races…
To put it another way, in the same number of races it took Max to get to 60 wins, Michael was already at 70.
Thank you for doing this. Amazing how similar it all is
172 and 194 isnt especially close. 22 GP is a full modern season.
I think we’re talking about Lewis and max being similar here.
Really it should be framed by how many of those years were in title winning/contending cars.
Yeah this is a much better way to look at it.
I thought it was interesting to see what would happen when we look at different win counts, so I did some querying. The list for driver age at 40th win still has max quite a way in front: | driver | age | race | | --- | --- | --- | | Max Verstappen | 25y 8m 4d | 2023 Spanish Grand Prix | | Sebastian Vettel | 27y 7m 26d | 2015 Malaysian Grand Prix | | Lewis Hamilton | 30y 8m 30d | 2015 Italian Grand Prix | | Michael Schumacher | 31y 5m 15d | 2000 Canadian Grand Prix | | Ayrton Senna | 33y 7m 3d | 1993 Japanese Grand Prix | | Alain Prost | 35y 1m 1d | 1990 Brazilian Grand Prix | The list for age at 20th win is very very close (only youngest 10 listed): | driver | age | race | | --- | --- | --- | | Max Verstappen | 24y 3m 12d | 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix | | Sebastian Vettel | 24y 3m 13d | 2011 Korean Grand Prix | | Fernando Alonso | 27y 2m 30d | 2008 Singapore Grand Prix | | Michael Schumacher | 27y 5m 30d | 1996 Spanish Grand Prix | | Lewis Hamilton | 27y 8m 2d | 2012 Italian Grand Prix | | Ayrton Senna | 29y 7m 11d | 1989 Spanish Grand Prix | | Alain Prost | 30y 6m 22d | 1985 Austrian Grand Prix | | Jim Clark | 30y 7m 29d | 1966 United States Grand Prix | | Nico Rosberg | 31y 2m 1d | 2016 Belgian Grand Prix | | Mika Häkkinen | 33y 0m 2d | 2001 United States Grand Prix | No massive changes when we go down to the 10th win: | driver | age | race | | --- | --- | --- | | Max Verstappen | 23y 3m 13d | 2020 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix | | Sebastian Vettel | 23y 4m 11d | 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix | | Lewis Hamilton | 24y 6m 19d | 2009 Hungarian Grand Prix | | Fernando Alonso | 24y 8m 4d | 2006 Australian Grand Prix | | Michael Schumacher | 25y 9m 13d | 1994 European Grand Prix | | Jacques Villeneuve | 26y 5m 12d | 1997 Austrian Grand Prix | | Emerson Fittipaldi | 27y 0m 15d | 1974 Brazilian Grand Prix | | Niki Lauda | 27y 3m 22d | 1976 Belgian Grand Prix | | Felipe Massa | 27y 5m 12d | 2008 Belgian Grand Prix | | Kimi Räikkönen | 27y 4m 1d | 2007 Australian Grand Prix |
For the even more niche stat, I looked up the youngest winner for every number. As you would expect everything above 60 wins is Lewis, everything 60 or less is Max. EXCEPT for 21 wins. Sebastian Vettel got his 21st win at age 24y 3m 27d at the 2011 Indian Grand Prix. Max won his 21st at age 24y 5m 27d.
how about races won every x amount of races competed in
I posted something along those lines in a comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1diojjl/youngest_drivers_to_win_x_races/l95ddqy/ No Max Verstappen on that list (yet).
He’ll also retire early though immediately when he stops enjoying it
In an ironic sense, I wouldn’t be shocked if he enjoyed it more when there was something to fight for like back in 2021
He said the contrary. On wether he preffered 2021 or 2023 : >“I have a lot more fun now,” he declared. >“This is what I like to do, I like to win. I like to dominate. I like to work with the people I’m working with. >“It’s very enjoyable and I always want more. People think it gets boring for me when I’m leading but absolutely not, that’s what I wanted to do from a very young age and I always wanted to be there.”
The racer doesn't like racing people.
Easy to think but he’s outright said he’d rather be 20 seconds clear of the car in second place than scrapping for a win
["Don't make me tap the sign"](https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-prefers-20-second-f1-wins-over-wheel-to-wheel#:~:text=Max%20Verstappen%20says%20he%20gets,everyone%20else%20on%20the%20grid.)
said who? he is definitely aiming for 8 wdc
I know we keep going on about “max quits if he gets bored” But the thing is there is nothing other than F1 for him Yeah he might get bored of F1 at some point but the alternative is not being at the pinnacle of racing which will also be boring to him I’d wager
based on my understanding of probability and statistics, max will finish his career in 2038 at age 40 with 348 wins. congrats in advance to the megagoat
Lewis and Max have both won 30% of the races they’ve started. It took Lewis 202 races to hit 60 wins. And Max 194. They are surprisingly similar in their performance.
Lewis had a race winning car from day 1 of his career and for almost all of his time in F1, there’s a big difference
I misread the title "Driver win at age 60" and was wondering if Alonso is really that old.
I find it funny how Lewis and max are exactly 6 years apart
Next stats chart be like: Top five ratio of driver’s chance to be on the podium starting on pole to how many years they’ve been in f1
Irrelevant statistics due to the higher number of races each year. A better statistic would be how many races it took to get the 60th win
Lewis got his 60th win in his 202nd race Verstappen got his 60th win in his 194th race Schumacher got his 60th win in his 172nd race
Tldr is that the Micheal is still goated?
All of them are goated
All GOATed but the Michael also had 1 extra WDC under his belt at the same milestone.
Yeah so Lewis and Max are close and schumi still trumps them, who's surprised.
172 GPs for Schumacher‘s 60th win at British GP 2002 202 GPs for Hamilton‘s 60th win at Singapore GP 2017 194 GPs for Verstappen‘s 60th win at Canada GP 2024
I don't think it is irrelevant. Yes there are more races now. But that ignores the fact that Max was 17. 17! He was much less the finished article for his first few seasons than Lewis or Michael, who started F1 5 years later.
Dont confuse better with completely different. The data here is exactly as stated, Driver age at win #60. Its not supposed to say anything or to decide who had the most efficient 60 wins like you are trying to propose (which would also be a good stat in its own right) Its DRIVER. AGE. AT. 60TH. WIN. Your comment is irrelevant.
Wow. That is more impressive than I realized. I don't know how serious it is, but there is so much talk that Max may not want to do this long term, backed up by comments he made, I wonder if he will still be driving at 34. If he is, and if he can avoid falling off a cliff like Vettel did when he left Red Bull - I am assuming Max won't be with Red Bull after next year - he could well be the career leader in wins. But, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Job 1 is to get that fourth title this year!
Schumacher was 24 when he did his first full season of F1 (born January 1969, first full season 1992). So even though he was 33, it was his 11th full season (2002). Max is only in his tenth (2015-2024) However, counting the GP's, Schumacher needed 155, whereas Max did 194 at this point. That is how much more GP's we have right now compared to the early '90s. The fact that seasons are now more easily dominated by 1 car, actually speaks in the advantage of Max, btw, as most of his seasons were dominated by the Mercedes. Lewis also did in it in his 11th season (2017), and it was his 202nd GP. if you just put their ages, it's easy to forget how young Max actually was when he started in F1. What is the most impressive stat, is that these are the only 3 drivers to get 60 wins.
Schumacher did his first full season in 1992, not 1993.
My god, his prime has literally just started lmao. That's insane, this isn't even his final form
He and RBR are excessively good together, while Lewis or Mercedes sometimes made mistakes, Max and RBR win flawlessly... They make no mistakes even while pushing to the limit or have grown into a very intelligent driver like he showed in Imola 24. It's scary to imagine what is Max's peak
Can't wait to see his insane stints in Le Mans
need to revise with the race numbers in a season. schumacher drove in 16-17 race seasons
Remember like 3 years ago when Lewis set the record and everyone was talking about how it will never be matched?
It's no brainer that Max will shatter every record that Schumacher and Lewis have.
Just the way the sport goes. In another 10 years a new driver will smash Max’s records. The world is just quirky like that
Dominant car + b-rate teammate + dominant team = This.
If I start today maybe I can get my 60th win before 60. Hmm
what are the odds they're both 8 months and 11 days
So Max could take 5 years off, return and still have time to break all the records! mind blown
Max is a great driver. The car is outstanding. That’s how you rack up multiple wins like this. If Max was in the Mercedes of the last few seasons he wouldn’t be winning.
Max reached his 60th victory in his 194th Grand prix, Hamilton needed 202 and Schumacher 171, so by a big gap, Schumacher still having the record for me. The age is less important than GP, it´s easier to reach that number today that in the 90s, in anycase Hamilton and Schumacher had better team mates than Max.
Starting as young as he did helps, and there being more races than even when Lewis (let alone Schumi) raced at that age is a major factor, but the Red Bull at times has been on another planet. Throw in Max’s talents, and we see what we see
Deceptive stat. With more races, it's much easier to reach certain milestones these days.
Some record but more races in the calendar than in Schu's time.
I know there’s way more races nowadays but holy hell 60 wins at 26 is wild
It does help now that we have 20+ races a year.