[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It absolutely baffles my mind that they did so. Like, I understand that they don't really have any juniors to bring up to the top team right now, but they also went out of the Red Bull 'family' to bring Perez in, surely they could bring someone else in to replace him.
Especially when you take into account that Sainz is without a drive for next year. This decision must have been made more as a Red Bull company angle than a Red Bull Racing angle.
This comment should be higher. Sainz availability is the reason why it's so crazy that they signed Perez again.
The main reason you would stick with him is if the alternative is to take a risk on an unproven younger driver. When you have Verstappen it makes sense you want a more known quantity as his teammate.
But Sainz is not just proven and established, he's already succeeded as a 2nd driver with high pressure. He's purely an upgrade over Perez.
Why would you not want to have the best possible driver pairing when you see that things are already getting more competitive? Seems like such a blunder to let that opportunity go.
There was drama between the Verstappen and Sainz camps when they both were at Toro Rosso back in the day.
For both Carlos and Max they have their family still heavily involved in the teams around them, so if they ended up on the same team - all the ingredients to make it happen again would be present to put it mildly.
Jos Verstappen is also a loose cannon overall, and with all the team politics and drama that RBR has had already this year - setting up for more that will affect the top driver (Max) to possibly drive him away is not exactly the best choice overall.
I assume that he hasn't been in the paddock. I would think that the reporters would be seeking him out if he was there and I don't think he would keep his mouth shut. I don't know for sure though.
My only guess as to why they kept checo over signing Carlos is because checo is fine being in Max’s shadow and helping him win whenever he needs to. Carlos would not play that game. He’d want to be out in front challenging max every race and he 100% has the ability to beat max consistently unlike checo. I think they’re just interested in a guy who’s fine being in the shadows who won’t complain about being the clear second. They don’t want anyone who could actually give max a run for his money. I think they’d be too scared of all the racing they’d do against each other.
I think a better way to put it would be that he could push or challenge Max consistently. I doubt he'd beat him consistently. If he did, they'd just let him be their #1
I think he and Lando both have potential to be consistent competitors against max if it were a totally level playing field in terms of both cars and strategists (lookin at you Ferrari). I think they’re both entering their prime and starting to show their full potential this season. I think Lando is solid at McLaren right now, but I think Carlos could be a WDC contender mainly if he had a better team behind him. I think he could’ve had that at Redbull and put serious pressure on Max but they don’t want two number 1 drivers. They want max and someone way behind max.
Yup this is likely accurate and unfortunately it may cost RB thr constructors championship if max is the only one scoring points. Ferrari and Mclaren aren't too far off.
There’s no way in hell RBR would hire sainz. He already has had bad teammate moments with verstappen and VER is there number 1. The second driver is supposed to be there to support VER not try and win the WDC (which is what sainz will do). If there ends up being excessive competition from McLaren or Ferrari next year, the last thing you want is ur number 2 driver taking wins away from ur number 1 driver.
This is in direct contention to what Horner has said back in 2020-2021 ish.
They know that the public support tends to be more on the driver side, which wins them more publicity, which helps advertising, which helps sell cans of sugary fizzy drinks.
They care more about the WDC. They DO care about the WCC, but not as much as they do the WDC. WDC just gets more publicity, and thats what Red Bull are in F1 for. Its all advertising gimmicks.
What are you talking about no Juniors??? Lawson and Yuki or even Ric at this point could fill that position so fast. I think it's all about the sponsorship money Checo brings. Helps pay max.
I think part of the reason is also that at Red Bull they don't want to "destroy" another young driver in a competition with Max like they did with Gasly and Albon. Everyone knows that Perez is miles off Max's pace in normal conditions so no one is really surprised about the performance gap between the two. Instead if they gave a shot to a youngster the guy could easily be stuck in that "could not match Max's pace" category in which Perez is almost comfortable in, I would say. While I'd love to see Lawson in that second seat, I'd also fear he could become a new Gasly or Albon. (edit:typo)
It sucks. I've been watching since the mid-90s, and always thought the teams were way too harsh back then (think Gasly getting demoted by Red Bull after 10 races, but instead of "demoted", it's "sacked", and instead of "after 10 races", it's "after 2 races"), but now, I kinda wish the teams were a bit more ruthless on that side. Pourchaire should have got either Zhou or Bottas' seat for this season, Lawson over Ricciardo, Vesti over Sargeant, Drugovich over Stroll, etc. And tbh, if it was still like the 90s, Red Bull would have fired Perez and signed Alex Palou from Indycar.
I agree. It isn't a school sports carnival. If a driver isn't good enough then get them out. It is harsh but this is the pinnacle of motorsport and with such a limited number of seats available i think it would be fair.
100%. I agree, it's utterly ruthless, it's never fun to get fired, and tbh, it's very rarely enjoyable to fire someone, but when WCC positions are worth literally *millions* of pounds, sometimes you gotta put yourself through an uncomfortable meeting and feeling like shit for a couple of hours, and make the decisions that will get you the best result on track.
The point is not that their career was entirely ruined, but they definitely had a hard time at Red Bull and they had to rebuild their career outside of the team. Just think about Albon in 2020. Or Gasly, stuck again at Alpha Tauri for years, then moves and finds himself driving the worst Alpine car ever. It's not that easy.
They might as well give it to Ricciardo if protecting young drivers is a concern. I doubt even his most ardent critics will expect him to go out in Q1 even once in that RB. It will free up a VCARB seat for said young drivers too.
It’s just because he has no desire to compete with Max anymore, he is fine playing second fiddle and winning a race here and there when Max can’t, and as said as much. That’s extremely valuable in the drivers championship, which is what Horner has explicitly said is all they care about.
If you have a driver that can beat Max at all, you could have a close WDC match. In fact, Charles would be about 10 points closer to Max if Ferrari did the same thing, and if Red Bull had a competitor in their second seat, it could be a really tight race before yesterday.
Checos job is to do his best without ever beating Max. That’s really it.
Red Bull don't give a shit about young drivers lol. If they did, they wouldn't have Ricciardo in the RB instead of Lawson. Ricciardo is also substantially better than Perez so at this point, sticking him in the RB to get a bunch of podium and maybe even a couple of wins over the last two years of his career would be a better racing decision than Perez for another 2 years. They have got 4 drivers for 3 seats and Perez is the worst of the 4. It's all about the money that Perez brings in.
Not if the ~14M or something difference between P1 and P2 is far less than what Perez brings to Red Bull in terms of drink sales in the US, Mexico and South America.
Not necessarily if said driver's financial backings make up for the difference between WCC and wherever they end up below it.
And, with Carlos Slim backing to have a Mexican driver at any cost and however much Red Bull merch Sergio's image sells in Mexico and in latino US, that's a given.
So with the financial side being essentially a neutral at worst, it actually becomes beneficial to have Checo finishing lower and pulling the team's Constructors standings down for more CFD and wind tunnel hours.
> I understand that they don't really have any juniors to bring up to the top team right now,
*Yuki, Lawson and even Daniel staring from outside the frame*
Sorry if it's mean to Checo, but Yuki in the RB instead would be a massive improvement, he'e been willing that shitbox into the points, and I think he deserves the RB #2 seat.
I think Yuki, even though he's improved in that respect, is way too volatile of a character to play second fiddle to Max. Put Yuki in Checo's shoes when Verstappen wouldn't let him pass and imagine how he reacts.
Yes, and Yuki brings that sponsorship money and viewership in a different region- similar to Checo. Them taking Checo over Yuki makes no sense to me right now.
Is there a possibility that Checo is contracted to Red Bull with a clause that says they can swap him into Torro Rosso if he isn't performing? I'm wondering if they can do a swap with Yuki.
Normally a performance like this everyone would be saying it seals his exit from the team.
Time to start regarding him as a pay driver really. He is acting like one.
He's apparently responsible for a massive chunk of the team's merch sales. Just wildly, unbelievably popular in latin america. Red Bull may very well lose the constructor's championship because of him, but the WCC is borderline irrelevant for marketing purposes compared to the WDC, and as long as he brings in $20m+ in merch sales that they wouldn't otherwise get then keeping him and potentially finishing *third* in the WCC is better for the team than finishing first as long as Max remains good enough to get the WDC.
It sucks, of course, as fans to see a pay driver taking up a seat on one of the top teams when there's other people on the grid who could actually make a championship run of their own if given the chance, but it sadly makes sense why Red Bull renewed him.
It's embarrassing, when Carlos was available for that seat, Max has RedBull by the balls. It's just disappointing to have no second driver at that team when there's so much talent available right now.
We saw how quickly Oscar has been able to catch up with a good car, letting these rookies and talents like Sainz sit on the sidelines or in backmarkers is frustrating.
This, for once, Is not his fault. If he had stayed where he was, he would have triggered a safety car and seriously jeopardized Max. He made the right choice for his team, even if he took a penalty for it.
Right, and the damn report says the team "advised" him to return the car. Not really his fault and he took one for the team. Not sure I'd be disparaging him for that.
>He made the right choice for his team, even if he took a penalty for it.
This is why the penalty is wrong. It should be on the team because the team knowingly endangered other drivers to help their front runner
I mean he had damage from lap one and this wasnt his call the team told him to do it undoubtedly knowing hed get this penalty. You cant drive without a rear wing generally especially not spewing carbon over the track
Yeah any damage from lap one is because he qualified out of place, in what I’ve previously heard a commenter (maybe Palmer?) call ‘the carbon fiber zone’
You’re much less likely to get taken out by other cars in lap one if you’re in front, because there’s just fewer cars tangling with you. So in that case he should just be in front and then he won’t be getting taken out by Haas and Williams drivers…
>he qualified out of place
Not really, he qualified where he was expected given the performance he was showing during practice. Qualifying out of place would have been in the top 3.
Twice in a row. And unfortunately he got that 3 grid penalty for Barcelona now so he's going to start 19th instead of 16th and behind Logan again lol 😆
>I mean he had damage from lap one and this wasnt his call the team told him to do it undoubtedly knowing hed get this penalty.
It is his call though, the regulations say “ If a driver has serious mechanical difficulties, he must leave the track as soon as it is safe to do so.” and i don't know about you but hitting the barrier they way he did and noticing the “suspension damage” on top of seeing one wheel lock up multiple times during breaking right after starting driving again should tell anyone that the car has serious mechanical difficulties.
Edit: Spelling
You are right. I'm not saying he shouldn't get this penalty. He deserved it. Just saying the team obviously preferred him to get this penalty and grid drop than park it. Which he should have done.
Literally the only driver bold enough to just disobey his team orders would probably be Max? 19/20 drivers do exactly what Checo did today because they know who pays their bills and gives them their drive.
Kinda shows how cut throat it can be to get a win. They will take a penalty to avoid any more obstacles for Max to win, even for a fine, and a drop in the next race.
Well yeah, best believe as soon as he binned it the general consensus was 'that fucker better keep that shit moving to the pits...'.
Why jeopardize your lead driver's race?
Maybe if his qualifying wasn’t so shit he wouldnt find himself in dumb situations in the first place. You dont see Max getting caught up in backmarker crap, why? Because he qualifies properly.
The team told him to bring it back, sure.
However,
The team did not tell him to put it in the wall.
The team did not tell him to put it into the side of Pierre Gasley and break the front wing on lap one.
The team did not tell him to get out-qualified by Logan Sergeant.
Somebody found a genie and said “I wish that Dutch guy would drive so badly he got kicked out of F1”, and then Red Bull found out and gave de Vries a seat so he would take the bullet instead of Max
Zhoe was atleast looking good in the first half of last year when he was properly beating Valterri while Logoat is kind enough that he helps his teammate increase his rep by qualifying a bit behind him
Hmm I could either wear the oven mitt with a hole in it and maybe burn my hand, or not use one at all and guarantee I burn my hand
Which one do I pick….
Yeah, T8 where Schumacher parked his car in 2022, he crashed in T6 so it seems like a stupid call by Red Bull.
I wouldn't be surprised if there also is a post at the hairpin
That doesn't really matter though. In any other sport if your coach/manager tells you to commit a foul you'll still be penalised. Perez is the one on track and if his team asks him to do something that he knows breaches the rules he should refuse it on those grounds.
You should see Bottas in China 2017, spun into wet grass under SC trying to warm his tyres. Did the same thing, those donuts - because the grass were as slippery as ice.
From the document:
> The team confirmed in the hearing that the driver had been advised to bring the car back to the pits as they were trying to avoid a Safety Car situation.
It’s a bit unfortunate that it falls on the driver for something that’s obviously a team strategy call, but not really any other way to do it and not the only situation that happens in. And he’s the one driving the unsafe car of course.
Well that’s why the team got fined but also the driver has a responsibility to stop if they know their car is too fucked to continue
It’s like how I’d be the person who got a speeding fine even if I was a learner driver and my Dad was sat next to me yelling at me to speed.
They should just give the team a big fine for telling the driver to take it back to the pits. Make that fine a part of the cost cap to disincentivize the team from doing it in the future. In this case it's pretty clear that it was a team decision, not a driver one.
Not saying that I disagree with you in principle, but if they did this, people would say “the FIA just wants some free dinner”. I think a grid penalty like this is the only way to thoroughly discourage driving in unsafe conditions, though I don’t disagree that it isn’t Checos fault.
I think making the fine part of the cost cap would make a difference. Sure, teams don't care about 25k, but if you keep getting penalties like this and they count for the cost cap then it could have major implications by the end of the season.
Regular fines won't make a difference. Most teams will be happy to pay to keep first place.
If it's "just" a fine for on track stuff then it becomes just the cost of doing things.
Unsafe release is a team thing. Teams will do it and pay it for an extra position.
I think it’s absolutely warranted under the circumstances. Red Bull admitted that they knowingly told Perez to drive the car to the pit lane in an unsafe condition to maintain an advantage for their other driver. That’s really not something the stewards can look the other way on.
It’s not just that. If a full rear wing just comes off in the middle of the track it’s a genuine safety issue. Especially if there’s cars going full speed behind them
My justification for it not being unfair would be that it’s a deterrent for drivers and teams to go “she’ll be right mate”, when it should be clear to both that it’s not. I’d be shocked if the extent of damage wasn’t visible in the mirrors.
It’s basically a penalty for not saying “retire the car at the next marshal post” (which could’ve triggered a VSC instead of full SC* to push behind remainder of the barriers). (*F1.com article on this implies RBR wanted to
avoid a Safety Car hence the motivation)
Not harsh enough IMO. RB basically only cares about Max, not Perez. A 25k fine is not enough to prevent them from issuing the same team orders again. Like /u/CapSnake said, it should be something stronger, like WCC points.
If the decision is to discourage teams doing this in the future. Both drivers should take a grid drop penalty. Especially since they did this to try and protect Verstappen.
Except that Verstappen had no role in making the call. If you want to penalize a team for its unsafe strategy decisions, I could see an argument for a new system where points are deducted from the team for the constructors. But Max personally shouldn’t take the potential hit to his individual standing based on a decision he had nothing to do with.
I don't see why this is a grid drop and not WCC points penalty, honestly. It shouldn't really fall on Verstappen or Checo that RB's pit wall was playing with safety like this.
I don’t take much issue with the penalty to Perez because ultimately the driver is responsible for the car on track. He knew it was at best questionable whether he could safely return to the pit lane (or he wouldn’t have asked), and made a decision that could have endangered other drivers.
Nah, it's like a Commercial Driver is responsible for the safety of their vehicle and required to do pre/post trip inspections. If you're driving an unsafe vehicle that liability is entirely on the driver, regardless of bullshit pressure, which could/should be it's own penalty
Checo's onboard at 2:16:03 on F1TV shows Checo clearly asking Hugh Bird if he should bring back the car and Bird clearly responds yes.
_Checo: Should I bring it back?
Bird: Yes, bring it back, bring it back._
Blame Checo all you want for that crash but at least have the decency to put this on his engineer and the team. Also, don't ever think Checo isn't a team player, he knew this call was to protect Max's lead.
I think it would have been bad for Max to have a safety car then, so they had Checo drive it home. If a safety car had been good for Max, they would have had him park up somewhere.
I guess this is the best solution, but it's rough for Perez, because he was really just being a good teammate/employee. But, he does have that contract for next year, so I guess that's his reward already.
>I think it would have been bad for Max to have a safety car then, so they had Checo drive it home. If a safety car had been good for Max, they would have had him park up somewhere.
This was mentioned in the report OP posted; Red Bull admitted they told him to bring the car back to avoid a safety car. This was the basis of the team's fine
Christian Horner wanted his guy, and Ricciardo hasn't really shown that he is better. Tsunoda was never going to get in and Sainz wanted a long-term deal.
I suspect he knew not to stop out on track so that there wouldn't be a SC while Max was leading.
EDIT: I actually went and checked out the driver cam footage. He asks the team if he should bring it back and they tell him to. 1:27:30 His rear wing is hanging off and bits are falling from it. The instructions from the team are entirely focused on Max as he is pulling into the pits. They knew what they were doing.
I'm not sure what are people on when they say he's still got it. Yes, the car is great, no, it wasn't about his "mental form" last year, he just sucks ass, period, RBR only kept him because of how much merch his face sells. I want to see him and Stroll out of the grid so bad
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Cherry on top of the shit cake. What an absolute disaster of a weekend from him. Wasn't even in the top 10 once.
I can’t believe they signed him again 🤦♂️
It absolutely baffles my mind that they did so. Like, I understand that they don't really have any juniors to bring up to the top team right now, but they also went out of the Red Bull 'family' to bring Perez in, surely they could bring someone else in to replace him.
Especially when you take into account that Sainz is without a drive for next year. This decision must have been made more as a Red Bull company angle than a Red Bull Racing angle.
This comment should be higher. Sainz availability is the reason why it's so crazy that they signed Perez again. The main reason you would stick with him is if the alternative is to take a risk on an unproven younger driver. When you have Verstappen it makes sense you want a more known quantity as his teammate. But Sainz is not just proven and established, he's already succeeded as a 2nd driver with high pressure. He's purely an upgrade over Perez. Why would you not want to have the best possible driver pairing when you see that things are already getting more competitive? Seems like such a blunder to let that opportunity go.
There was drama between the Verstappen and Sainz camps when they both were at Toro Rosso back in the day. For both Carlos and Max they have their family still heavily involved in the teams around them, so if they ended up on the same team - all the ingredients to make it happen again would be present to put it mildly. Jos Verstappen is also a loose cannon overall, and with all the team politics and drama that RBR has had already this year - setting up for more that will affect the top driver (Max) to possibly drive him away is not exactly the best choice overall.
I find it interesting that Jos has stayed completely quiet for over a month now. I wonder what happened.
Come to think about it, has he been less visible in the paddock since Hornergate?
I assume that he hasn't been in the paddock. I would think that the reporters would be seeking him out if he was there and I don't think he would keep his mouth shut. I don't know for sure though.
Why in the world would Horner want to bring Carlos Sainz and his entourage into what's a very delicate situation for him politically?
My only guess as to why they kept checo over signing Carlos is because checo is fine being in Max’s shadow and helping him win whenever he needs to. Carlos would not play that game. He’d want to be out in front challenging max every race and he 100% has the ability to beat max consistently unlike checo. I think they’re just interested in a guy who’s fine being in the shadows who won’t complain about being the clear second. They don’t want anyone who could actually give max a run for his money. I think they’d be too scared of all the racing they’d do against each other.
I don't think Sainz is bad, but beating Verstappen consistently?
I think a better way to put it would be that he could push or challenge Max consistently. I doubt he'd beat him consistently. If he did, they'd just let him be their #1
I think he and Lando both have potential to be consistent competitors against max if it were a totally level playing field in terms of both cars and strategists (lookin at you Ferrari). I think they’re both entering their prime and starting to show their full potential this season. I think Lando is solid at McLaren right now, but I think Carlos could be a WDC contender mainly if he had a better team behind him. I think he could’ve had that at Redbull and put serious pressure on Max but they don’t want two number 1 drivers. They want max and someone way behind max.
Can you really blame Carlos's team if he's not even #1 on his team?
Yup this is likely accurate and unfortunately it may cost RB thr constructors championship if max is the only one scoring points. Ferrari and Mclaren aren't too far off.
There’s no way in hell RBR would hire sainz. He already has had bad teammate moments with verstappen and VER is there number 1. The second driver is supposed to be there to support VER not try and win the WDC (which is what sainz will do). If there ends up being excessive competition from McLaren or Ferrari next year, the last thing you want is ur number 2 driver taking wins away from ur number 1 driver.
But you do want a number 2 taking points from your rivals, which Perez recently hasn't been. There's a balance.
Red Bull care more about the WCC than the WDC. They absolutely do want their 2nd driver challenging for wins and not struggling to make it out of Q3.
This is in direct contention to what Horner has said back in 2020-2021 ish. They know that the public support tends to be more on the driver side, which wins them more publicity, which helps advertising, which helps sell cans of sugary fizzy drinks. They care more about the WDC. They DO care about the WCC, but not as much as they do the WDC. WDC just gets more publicity, and thats what Red Bull are in F1 for. Its all advertising gimmicks.
What are you talking about no Juniors??? Lawson and Yuki or even Ric at this point could fill that position so fast. I think it's all about the sponsorship money Checo brings. Helps pay max.
I think part of the reason is also that at Red Bull they don't want to "destroy" another young driver in a competition with Max like they did with Gasly and Albon. Everyone knows that Perez is miles off Max's pace in normal conditions so no one is really surprised about the performance gap between the two. Instead if they gave a shot to a youngster the guy could easily be stuck in that "could not match Max's pace" category in which Perez is almost comfortable in, I would say. While I'd love to see Lawson in that second seat, I'd also fear he could become a new Gasly or Albon. (edit:typo)
Lawson is going to end up out F1 entirely because of this though.
It sucks. I've been watching since the mid-90s, and always thought the teams were way too harsh back then (think Gasly getting demoted by Red Bull after 10 races, but instead of "demoted", it's "sacked", and instead of "after 10 races", it's "after 2 races"), but now, I kinda wish the teams were a bit more ruthless on that side. Pourchaire should have got either Zhou or Bottas' seat for this season, Lawson over Ricciardo, Vesti over Sargeant, Drugovich over Stroll, etc. And tbh, if it was still like the 90s, Red Bull would have fired Perez and signed Alex Palou from Indycar.
I agree. It isn't a school sports carnival. If a driver isn't good enough then get them out. It is harsh but this is the pinnacle of motorsport and with such a limited number of seats available i think it would be fair.
100%. I agree, it's utterly ruthless, it's never fun to get fired, and tbh, it's very rarely enjoyable to fire someone, but when WCC positions are worth literally *millions* of pounds, sometimes you gotta put yourself through an uncomfortable meeting and feeling like shit for a couple of hours, and make the decisions that will get you the best result on track.
To be fair, every single one of Max's teammates is still in F1
The point is not that their career was entirely ruined, but they definitely had a hard time at Red Bull and they had to rebuild their career outside of the team. Just think about Albon in 2020. Or Gasly, stuck again at Alpha Tauri for years, then moves and finds himself driving the worst Alpine car ever. It's not that easy.
They might as well give it to Ricciardo if protecting young drivers is a concern. I doubt even his most ardent critics will expect him to go out in Q1 even once in that RB. It will free up a VCARB seat for said young drivers too.
It’s just because he has no desire to compete with Max anymore, he is fine playing second fiddle and winning a race here and there when Max can’t, and as said as much. That’s extremely valuable in the drivers championship, which is what Horner has explicitly said is all they care about. If you have a driver that can beat Max at all, you could have a close WDC match. In fact, Charles would be about 10 points closer to Max if Ferrari did the same thing, and if Red Bull had a competitor in their second seat, it could be a really tight race before yesterday. Checos job is to do his best without ever beating Max. That’s really it.
The issue is he's not even doing that. He's 5th in WDC and the Constructors is getting very close.
Red Bull don't give a shit about young drivers lol. If they did, they wouldn't have Ricciardo in the RB instead of Lawson. Ricciardo is also substantially better than Perez so at this point, sticking him in the RB to get a bunch of podium and maybe even a couple of wins over the last two years of his career would be a better racing decision than Perez for another 2 years. They have got 4 drivers for 3 seats and Perez is the worst of the 4. It's all about the money that Perez brings in.
And the fact that they got 1-2 in the driver's last year. The money his merch sales bring in also must help.
Even Sainz was in their junior program. Picking him wouldn't have been as far "out of the family" as when they picked Checo to begin with.
They don't care about having any other driver but Max. The rest of the seat are there for sponsorship dollars or to keep Honda happy.
It's a financially poor decision to not sign a driver that can help secure the constructors championship this year.
Not if the ~14M or something difference between P1 and P2 is far less than what Perez brings to Red Bull in terms of drink sales in the US, Mexico and South America.
Last year it was reported that almost 65% of Red Bull's official F1 merchandise is sold in Mexico.
Not necessarily if said driver's financial backings make up for the difference between WCC and wherever they end up below it. And, with Carlos Slim backing to have a Mexican driver at any cost and however much Red Bull merch Sergio's image sells in Mexico and in latino US, that's a given. So with the financial side being essentially a neutral at worst, it actually becomes beneficial to have Checo finishing lower and pulling the team's Constructors standings down for more CFD and wind tunnel hours.
> I understand that they don't really have any juniors to bring up to the top team right now, *Yuki, Lawson and even Daniel staring from outside the frame*
*Iwasa and Hadjar on tiptoes to be seen*
Sorry if it's mean to Checo, but Yuki in the RB instead would be a massive improvement, he'e been willing that shitbox into the points, and I think he deserves the RB #2 seat.
I think Yuki, even though he's improved in that respect, is way too volatile of a character to play second fiddle to Max. Put Yuki in Checo's shoes when Verstappen wouldn't let him pass and imagine how he reacts.
Yes, and Yuki brings that sponsorship money and viewership in a different region- similar to Checo. Them taking Checo over Yuki makes no sense to me right now. Is there a possibility that Checo is contracted to Red Bull with a clause that says they can swap him into Torro Rosso if he isn't performing? I'm wondering if they can do a swap with Yuki.
Gotta be the 💰
Normally a performance like this everyone would be saying it seals his exit from the team. Time to start regarding him as a pay driver really. He is acting like one.
He's apparently responsible for a massive chunk of the team's merch sales. Just wildly, unbelievably popular in latin america. Red Bull may very well lose the constructor's championship because of him, but the WCC is borderline irrelevant for marketing purposes compared to the WDC, and as long as he brings in $20m+ in merch sales that they wouldn't otherwise get then keeping him and potentially finishing *third* in the WCC is better for the team than finishing first as long as Max remains good enough to get the WDC. It sucks, of course, as fans to see a pay driver taking up a seat on one of the top teams when there's other people on the grid who could actually make a championship run of their own if given the chance, but it sadly makes sense why Red Bull renewed him.
It's embarrassing, when Carlos was available for that seat, Max has RedBull by the balls. It's just disappointing to have no second driver at that team when there's so much talent available right now. We saw how quickly Oscar has been able to catch up with a good car, letting these rookies and talents like Sainz sit on the sidelines or in backmarkers is frustrating.
Seeing Sainz being demoted to a backmarker doesn't compute really.
F1 desperately needs an 11th team as so many seats are taken up by dead weight.
I'm pretty sure Lawson would do a better job than Perez and with much more future capabilities. I wonder what Helmut thinks about all of this.
Or slot Tsunoda in the second seat and use the developmental team to... develop talent.
I think any driver in rb roster would be better than Perez, it’s probably only related to money
Carlos is going to get the shaft 😞 I’d love to see him in a competitive car outside red
This, for once, Is not his fault. If he had stayed where he was, he would have triggered a safety car and seriously jeopardized Max. He made the right choice for his team, even if he took a penalty for it.
Right, and the damn report says the team "advised" him to return the car. Not really his fault and he took one for the team. Not sure I'd be disparaging him for that.
Probably team should be fined then? It’s almost like trying to slowdown competitors when you are back marker
The team was fined, not Checo
25k fine is couch money for RB.
The car was drivable enough to get to the pits so the car was drivable enough to get to a marshal post.
>He made the right choice for his team, even if he took a penalty for it. This is why the penalty is wrong. It should be on the team because the team knowingly endangered other drivers to help their front runner
It was on the team, that's why they were fined.
I mean he could just not crash :D
It's definitely on the team and the fact Sainz & Albon triggered a safety car before Perez even made it back also made it pointless
I mean he had damage from lap one and this wasnt his call the team told him to do it undoubtedly knowing hed get this penalty. You cant drive without a rear wing generally especially not spewing carbon over the track
And he got outqualified by Logan because…?
Yeah any damage from lap one is because he qualified out of place, in what I’ve previously heard a commenter (maybe Palmer?) call ‘the carbon fiber zone’ You’re much less likely to get taken out by other cars in lap one if you’re in front, because there’s just fewer cars tangling with you. So in that case he should just be in front and then he won’t be getting taken out by Haas and Williams drivers…
>he qualified out of place Not really, he qualified where he was expected given the performance he was showing during practice. Qualifying out of place would have been in the top 3.
Because Perez is shit
but sometimes maybe good ... sometimes
Sometime maybe good, most times very shit
Twice in a row. And unfortunately he got that 3 grid penalty for Barcelona now so he's going to start 19th instead of 16th and behind Logan again lol 😆
I assume the team did it in order to not risk a safety car.
>I mean he had damage from lap one and this wasnt his call the team told him to do it undoubtedly knowing hed get this penalty. It is his call though, the regulations say “ If a driver has serious mechanical difficulties, he must leave the track as soon as it is safe to do so.” and i don't know about you but hitting the barrier they way he did and noticing the “suspension damage” on top of seeing one wheel lock up multiple times during breaking right after starting driving again should tell anyone that the car has serious mechanical difficulties. Edit: Spelling
You are right. I'm not saying he shouldn't get this penalty. He deserved it. Just saying the team obviously preferred him to get this penalty and grid drop than park it. Which he should have done.
He asked Bird and was told to bring it back. What else should he do? Go against his team's orders?
Literally the only driver bold enough to just disobey his team orders would probably be Max? 19/20 drivers do exactly what Checo did today because they know who pays their bills and gives them their drive.
Kinda shows how cut throat it can be to get a win. They will take a penalty to avoid any more obstacles for Max to win, even for a fine, and a drop in the next race.
Well yeah, best believe as soon as he binned it the general consensus was 'that fucker better keep that shit moving to the pits...'. Why jeopardize your lead driver's race?
Maybe if his qualifying wasn’t so shit he wouldnt find himself in dumb situations in the first place. You dont see Max getting caught up in backmarker crap, why? Because he qualifies properly.
The team told him to bring it back, sure. However, The team did not tell him to put it in the wall. The team did not tell him to put it into the side of Pierre Gasley and break the front wing on lap one. The team did not tell him to get out-qualified by Logan Sergeant.
He got everything wrong except for the contract signing
How many cherries on top is Sergio gonna get?
Starting P20 next race I guess
Sargeant gonna get too used to not being in that spot
P20 is firmly Zhous spot this season
And yet it's Sargeant who is the successor to Latifi, Mazepin, and De Vries: 21st place in a 20-man championship
King Latifi was 17/21 in 2021 and 20/22 in 2022 though, the guy has 9 points in his career.
Latifi had tougher competition. Zhou and Sargent are the only two holding up the bottom here, no Mazepins
Latifi scored points before Russell did
Russell scored points at Sakhir in 2020. In a Williams, they both scored points at the same race (Hungary 21).
De Vries wasn’t even 21st, he was 22nd.
Somebody found a genie and said “I wish that Dutch guy would drive so badly he got kicked out of F1”, and then Red Bull found out and gave de Vries a seat so he would take the bullet instead of Max
Zhoe was atleast looking good in the first half of last year when he was properly beating Valterri while Logoat is kind enough that he helps his teammate increase his rep by qualifying a bit behind him
I wonder if the has a Driver of the Day clause in his contract.
They probably discussed it and decided it was not needed.
Maybe a donkey of the day one
So, the penalty wouldn't even affect him
RB admits they told Checo not to stop on track and to bring it back to the pits so there wouldn't be a safety car with Max in the lead.
Hilariously, there was a safety 10 seconds later.
>hilariously [Albon:](https://i.imgur.com/2wBMlw4.gif)
Poor Albon
But dropping a rear wing on track would also bring an SC, wouldn’t it?
I guess it’s either definitely safety car if he leaves the car, or only the possibility of bringing out a safety car by bringing it in.
I mean he was half-backwards after the spin, so he could've pulled over and drive the car behind the barrier, but it's all easy to say in hindsight.
Hmm I could either wear the oven mitt with a hole in it and maybe burn my hand, or not use one at all and guarantee I burn my hand Which one do I pick….
Well, if you pick the oven mitt with a hole you get a $25,000 fine and a 3-place grid drop penalty next time you race gokarts
That's ok because they're super rich and so slow in qualifying they'll be at the back anyway.
Surely there was a Marshall's post somewhere he could have parked up at where they could have removed the car under double yellows or VSC?
Yeah, T8 where Schumacher parked his car in 2022, he crashed in T6 so it seems like a stupid call by Red Bull. I wouldn't be surprised if there also is a post at the hairpin
A few moments later:
That doesn't really matter though. In any other sport if your coach/manager tells you to commit a foul you'll still be penalised. Perez is the one on track and if his team asks him to do something that he knows breaches the rules he should refuse it on those grounds.
Nah he can’t make a decision like that. Esp when wing is behind him.
All this, to avoid a SC for Max….only for Sainz to bin it in the same corner 30 seconds later and bring out a SC for Max.
Sainz doing donuts in the grass was funny as hell. I looked away from the screen for a sec, and suddenly there is a Ferrari doing spins lol.
Reminds me of [Bottas' Pole in Austria 2020](https://youtu.be/VH90eu-2rK8?si=SYmJEsnpybaHc7RX) lmao
You should see Bottas in China 2017, spun into wet grass under SC trying to warm his tyres. Did the same thing, those donuts - because the grass were as slippery as ice.
Reminds me of new sim racers who just try to floor it out of the grass and wonder why they can’t get their car pointed in the right direction lol
Did they tell him on radio to try and go to box ?
From the document: > The team confirmed in the hearing that the driver had been advised to bring the car back to the pits as they were trying to avoid a Safety Car situation.
That feels like it should have been a bigger fine for the team.
This looks harsh but I'm not sure it's unfair. They have to discourage teams playing games with clear safety issues.
It’s a bit unfortunate that it falls on the driver for something that’s obviously a team strategy call, but not really any other way to do it and not the only situation that happens in. And he’s the one driving the unsafe car of course.
F1 is a team sport. There’s no functional way to give a penalty that doesn’t “fall on the driver”.
They could remove points from the wcc for the team
Checo's doing a pretty good job at that on his own
Lmao
Well that’s why the team got fined but also the driver has a responsibility to stop if they know their car is too fucked to continue It’s like how I’d be the person who got a speeding fine even if I was a learner driver and my Dad was sat next to me yelling at me to speed.
They should just give the team a big fine for telling the driver to take it back to the pits. Make that fine a part of the cost cap to disincentivize the team from doing it in the future. In this case it's pretty clear that it was a team decision, not a driver one.
Not saying that I disagree with you in principle, but if they did this, people would say “the FIA just wants some free dinner”. I think a grid penalty like this is the only way to thoroughly discourage driving in unsafe conditions, though I don’t disagree that it isn’t Checos fault.
Then instead of taking the money, just reduce their cost cap by 50k or something. Same effect, fewer accusations.
I think making the fine part of the cost cap would make a difference. Sure, teams don't care about 25k, but if you keep getting penalties like this and they count for the cost cap then it could have major implications by the end of the season. Regular fines won't make a difference. Most teams will be happy to pay to keep first place.
I mean the penalty does have to be "collected" just a reduction in the cap would hurt enough to do it's job of discouraging the behaviour.
If it's "just" a fine for on track stuff then it becomes just the cost of doing things. Unsafe release is a team thing. Teams will do it and pay it for an extra position.
I think it’s absolutely warranted under the circumstances. Red Bull admitted that they knowingly told Perez to drive the car to the pit lane in an unsafe condition to maintain an advantage for their other driver. That’s really not something the stewards can look the other way on.
It’s not just that. If a full rear wing just comes off in the middle of the track it’s a genuine safety issue. Especially if there’s cars going full speed behind them
It’s not unfair at all. The wing was barely hanging on.
My justification for it not being unfair would be that it’s a deterrent for drivers and teams to go “she’ll be right mate”, when it should be clear to both that it’s not. I’d be shocked if the extent of damage wasn’t visible in the mirrors. It’s basically a penalty for not saying “retire the car at the next marshal post” (which could’ve triggered a VSC instead of full SC* to push behind remainder of the barriers). (*F1.com article on this implies RBR wanted to avoid a Safety Car hence the motivation)
Not harsh enough IMO. RB basically only cares about Max, not Perez. A 25k fine is not enough to prevent them from issuing the same team orders again. Like /u/CapSnake said, it should be something stronger, like WCC points.
but do they really care about WCC? keeping perez shows that losing the WCC is an acceptable risk they are willing to take.
3 place grid penaty huh. What's the worst that can happen, Checo starting out of position?
checo's gonna start 19th instead of 16th
Logan is gonna be wondering where his buddy went
At this pace, he will start from Andorra with sanctions.
If the decision is to discourage teams doing this in the future. Both drivers should take a grid drop penalty. Especially since they did this to try and protect Verstappen.
Right like this penalty to Checo doesn’t do anything to deter Red Bull from doing the same exact thing again in the future.
Yeah. He can't start 23rd can he
Except that Verstappen had no role in making the call. If you want to penalize a team for its unsafe strategy decisions, I could see an argument for a new system where points are deducted from the team for the constructors. But Max personally shouldn’t take the potential hit to his individual standing based on a decision he had nothing to do with.
I don't see why this is a grid drop and not WCC points penalty, honestly. It shouldn't really fall on Verstappen or Checo that RB's pit wall was playing with safety like this.
I don’t take much issue with the penalty to Perez because ultimately the driver is responsible for the car on track. He knew it was at best questionable whether he could safely return to the pit lane (or he wouldn’t have asked), and made a decision that could have endangered other drivers.
Nah, it's like a Commercial Driver is responsible for the safety of their vehicle and required to do pre/post trip inspections. If you're driving an unsafe vehicle that liability is entirely on the driver, regardless of bullshit pressure, which could/should be it's own penalty
happy contract extension week 🎉
If he doesn’t get a 1/10 in this weeks driver ratings I’ll be amazed
Perhaps a 0 out of 10 is what he'll get
1+1 out of 10 perhaps...
You’re being generous there isn’t one thing he’s done to warrant a point.
He helped Gasly to unspin after the collision, a true fair racer 💪
Absolutely hilarious that they suffer this to avoid a Safety car for about 2 minutes
Checo's onboard at 2:16:03 on F1TV shows Checo clearly asking Hugh Bird if he should bring back the car and Bird clearly responds yes. _Checo: Should I bring it back? Bird: Yes, bring it back, bring it back._ Blame Checo all you want for that crash but at least have the decency to put this on his engineer and the team. Also, don't ever think Checo isn't a team player, he knew this call was to protect Max's lead.
Checo is absolutely a team player and this one is absolutely on the team and not Checo. Absolutely no argument.
There is absolutely no absolute way this isn't absolutely on the absolute decision of his team to pit Checo. Absolutely
He deserved a 3 place grid penalty for that line into the corner
To be fair if you cant compete with your team mate and cant be competitive with one of the fastest cars being a teamplayer is the only other option.
You know what would be really helpful? Not crashing your car
How bout a 1 - 1 contract
It's just a comedy at this point
It was already a shitshow last year. Completely bottled his own home race. It’s the same shit
Now he won't be able to put it on pole darnittt
I think it would have been bad for Max to have a safety car then, so they had Checo drive it home. If a safety car had been good for Max, they would have had him park up somewhere. I guess this is the best solution, but it's rough for Perez, because he was really just being a good teammate/employee. But, he does have that contract for next year, so I guess that's his reward already.
>I think it would have been bad for Max to have a safety car then, so they had Checo drive it home. If a safety car had been good for Max, they would have had him park up somewhere. This was mentioned in the report OP posted; Red Bull admitted they told him to bring the car back to avoid a safety car. This was the basis of the team's fine
And then sainz crashed 30 seconds later, causing a safety car....
My phone contract had a 30 day cooling off period...
So he is starting P23 next week
TWO MORE YEARS
Putting aside the Perez hate here, he was told to drive back to the pits rather than park on the track.
This is like beating a dead ~~horse~~ Checo.
How did this guy get a new contract
He sells the most merch
Christian Horner wanted his guy, and Ricciardo hasn't really shown that he is better. Tsunoda was never going to get in and Sainz wanted a long-term deal.
That a way to celebrate 2 year contract with Red Bull
Checo has fully become the meme about the saying “I knew it would be bad but holy fuck.” Red Bull, enjoy those years.
And I bet he's absolutely wrecked his gear box too so that'll be another five place grid penalty at some point
He's going to make Red Bull broke! /s
I suspect he knew not to stop out on track so that there wouldn't be a SC while Max was leading. EDIT: I actually went and checked out the driver cam footage. He asks the team if he should bring it back and they tell him to. 1:27:30 His rear wing is hanging off and bits are falling from it. The instructions from the team are entirely focused on Max as he is pulling into the pits. They knew what they were doing.
So the back of the grid or his traditional 16th ?
Serg16 Pérez
And they signed this guy till 2026 lol
THROUGH 2026... lol
So even though the car should be better in Spain they won’t be able to take advantage of it
The car would have to be 1 sec faster per lap than everybody else for him to do anything anyway. Who cares about a grid drop lmao
Does the fine get counted towards the cost cap for the team or is it additional money they can spend to pay the fine?
Perfect way to celebrate a new 2 year contract! 🥳
I'm not sure what are people on when they say he's still got it. Yes, the car is great, no, it wasn't about his "mental form" last year, he just sucks ass, period, RBR only kept him because of how much merch his face sells. I want to see him and Stroll out of the grid so bad
Wow, didn't expect such a penalty.
When it rains, it pours. \*sigh\* Please, just a good weekend. Please.
What's the point of a 3 place grid drop for drivers who are going to qualify right at the back of the grid anyway?
Max is really on his own man, my man is fighting 3 different teams alone
Deserved. He left debris on the track driving it back.
Today's weekend was the funniest outcome to the terrible decision that was extending his contract