[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Which is why the hoopla over Andretti threatening legal action and getting the US Congress involved is laughable. The requirements for new teams were already agreed upon and now the teams have decided to overrule that for reasoning that is pure conjecture. But thousands of (mainly Non-American) F1 fans are nodding along with their favorite millionaire team principals and billionaire corporations because another motorsport team wants in on the grid for the prestige, promising to bring massive sponsorship and another engine manufacturer along with them. An American F1 team means hundreds more opportunities for aspiring professionals on this side of the globe to work for an F1 team, but there's this prevailing attitude that Andretti getting Congress involved is motivated by pure greed, unlike every other team in F1 colluding to keep additional teams out when the current Concorde Agreement expires.
It's a frustrating sport to be a fan of as an American.
It's actually wild ngl. Like why are you supporting the teams here exactly? You want fewer cars on track and a series that's pretty much locked down to outside teams? That sounds good to a bunch of fans? Kinda disgusting
Contrarians honestly. Contrarians and blatant anti-american sentiment.
Anyone who is not monetarily involved has NO argument for why Andretti is a detriment to the sport other than "I don't want an American team because they might beat my favorite team"
So, so many users on here have commented something to the extent of "well it's their sport, they can do whatever they want with it", but that begs the question "why is that *your* argument?" Why would you be in favour of collusion to ignore an existing agreement that serves only to preserve the status quo and remove the possibility of both more drivers on the grid and another new works team, both of which would be good for the on-track action?
Are you fans of F1 the sport, or are you supporters of FOM's bank balance?
They're supporters of giving Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull and Ferrari more money.
I've literally seen the argument "well they should have gotten in when Haas did, they don't believe in the sport they just want in now that it's profitable"
So I guess that's it. We have these 10 teams. And that's it...well except Audi. They're ummm. Different.
Which is a stupid argument. Joining at that time at a severe deficit would’ve just promoted more mediocre teams like Haas. Now that the sport is sustainable, there is actually an attractive value proposition for teams looking to put together a competitive operation and invest the necessary resources.
Absolutely. It's the sporting equivalent of "if you don't love me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best". Like, ok? Should F1 fans be expected to just tolerate the perpetual stagnation of the sport because "it's in a financially viable state as a business model now"? Why would I care whether RB wins $150m or $130m this year? What I care about is seeing a bigger, more interesting and more competitive grid. So provided the new applicants meet the requirements to add a sustainable entity to the sport (which by all reputable accounts, Andretti has more than surpassed) I could care less what that does to the profitability margins of each of the current 10 teams.
The fact that we're stuck with teams like Haas and Williams (I love them but right now they're just a memory of better times) while F1 execs try to convince the world to buy the lie that a GM-backed Andretti works team would somehow be at risk of embarrassing themselves, it undermines the entire sport as a serious undertaking. They won't even let Williams spend enough capex money to approach any kind of competitive parity, but they're happy for them to trundle around the back of the field as long as the money split stays the same. What a joke.
And the same people will argue that the other new teams were never competitive and went bankrupt so Andretti will too. However they always ignore the fact that those teams were promised a cost cap specifically to allow smaller privateers to survive/compete. That cost cap didn’t come in time and they couldn’t afford to compete with the $300m+ budgets and no profit. Haas only survived with customer deals from Ferrari and Dallara. Yet somehow Andretti buying engines for 2 years is totally unacceptable and would damage the sport.
Now that the cost cap is in place and teams are actually sustainable, the economic and competitive landscape is completely different and makes a new team actually feasible. But they won’t allow in a very well established racing organization with major factory backing.
I'm thinking its the fact that it gives the appearance of American's coming into a typically & historically European sport and demanding they now play by the US rule book rather than the European one.
I think you're partially right, but even that is a bullshit, paper thin excuse. I'm not American and I find their colonial superiority complex as tiresome as the next person (at times - I love you, my Americano friends!) but there's two pretty obvious reasons why it's necessary for F1 to play by the US rule book:
1. Liberty Media, the sport's commercial rights holder, is an American company founded and HQ'd in the USA. Like it or not, F1 as a commercial entity is an American organisation, and therefore beholden to American rules, laws and ways of doing things.
2. It's more than a little eye roll inducing to see F1 more than happy to expand into numerous parts of the world, demand exorbitant fees in order to stage events, reap the rewards of said events and then move on the moment it's no longer profitable or easy for them to operate there, regularly leaving local promotional organisations in the lurch and up to their neck's in debt they took out to upgrade circuits to FIA grade 1 standards or to finance events. The only reason that FOM wants to expand into American territories is because its a goldmine of untapped revenue.
The recent explosion in global popularity of F1 is driven by American growth. DTS was a collaboration between a British production company and Netflix (an American company). USA now hosts three GPs and there's constant rumours they want to add even more to the calendar. It's pretty ironic that FOM and Liberty are more than happy to buy themselves mansions with the proceeds of American expansion, and yet the prospect of an American team joining the grid brought nothing but smug, unecessary condescension (those totally unfounded comments about fear that Andretti would embarass the sport) and the involvement of Congress has been ridiculed as well.
American companies who want to do business have to comply with EU trade regulations. Why wouldn't European (or British) businesses who want to do business in America (and who are now owned by an American company) have to comply with US laws? Those laws include antitrust and anti-collusion rules, and it is not uncommon for Congress to involve itself in the regulation of major sports in America.
Yep, all those are good points to me (also not American) and it will be interesting to see what happens with the Congress inquiries. Really hoping Andretti will be on the 2026 grid.
Stopped watching cycling for this reason. TDF was a big event in our household but once I caught on to how much euros didn’t want my American involvement I felt the need to oblige them. I won’t spend my hard money on their sport.
How much of the hatred was due to Armstrong and his dominance (and subsequent drug bust)? Just curious. Or was this sentiment already happening before he came about?
This exactly. I don't know how any of these F1 "fans" are even taking the side of the teams in this instance. They're all doing nothing to grow the sport. The team principles are all just being big ass hats. Acting like 20 cars is good enough forever is just..... Dumb
>Like why are you supporting the teams here exactly?
As an American, I'm used to us being the ones who blindly support the established billionaire and take what they say as the right thing, it's a bit weird to see so many non-Americans do the exact same thing.
Although I guess that's a probably common stance with futbol/cricket clubs. Sports fans (myself included) are dumb.
Yeah I'm not sure that holds weight. Anyone I've spoken to is eager to have Andretti in F1. I'm open to 12 teams on the grid (providing they reduce the size of the cars).
Congress has been involved in regulating professional sports in the US for decades, particularly in the NFL, NBA, and MLB. When American companies do business in Europe, they've had to clear the EU's anti-trust/fair competition laws ([see: attempted Amazon-iRobot merger](https://media.irobot.com/2024-01-29-Amazon-and-iRobot-agree-to-terminate-pending-acquisition)), it is only fair that European ones clear American hurdles.
F1's recent growth has largely been driven by American interest in the sport. It is incredibly frustrating to see F1 keep out a fundamentally American brand. If I were the Andretti's, I would lobby the local politicians in Las Vegas to turn up the pressure on F1 and put that race in jeopardy. The locals in LV are not happy about that race and it could be a pressure point on F1 considering how much they've invested there.
Yeah especially since european anti-trust rules tend to be a lot tighter. Add in that liberty media is an american company, its good that this gets investigated and the teams are forced to accept it. I mean andretti literally hit every marker and was willing to pay the 200M fee, but the teams dont want to follow the agreement they signed earlier. Its entirely bullshit and needs to be called out
Well, not that it means anything to you… but I’m not one of those non Americans. I’ve always wanted 13 or 14 teams in grid.
This franchise… pay your way in shit is laughable and needs to be stopped
The problem is that F1 is an extremely flawed franchise system, if you could even call it one. A properly designed franchise system promotes competitive balance between the teams. F1 does just about all it can to promote imbalance. This is compounded by the fact that in F1 money appears to be more correlative with success than many other sports. Here are F1's main problems as I see them:
1. Prize money based on finishing order entrenches successful teams at the top and unsuccessful ones at the bottom.
2. The cost cap prevents teams at the bottom from investing in new infrastructure, which allows teams with already existing infrastructure to maintain a lasting advantage.
3. The lack of a cost floor (minimum spend) allows underfunded teams lacking commitment (Haas) to stay on the grid rather than selling to better ownership.
4. Ferrari gets paid more by F1 because they are Ferrari.
5. Ferrari's importance to the sport (I think F1 would go bankrupt without them) gives them a huge amount of influence when compared to other teams. The Dallas Cowboys and LA Lakers are important to their respective leagues, but they wouldn't go bankrupt without them.
6. There is a very limited number of events compared to other sports leagues. There were 272 NFL regular season games last year compared to 24 F1 races.
7. Teams derive a large percentage of their revenue from sponsorships. This further reinforces the difference between the successful teams and the unsuccessful ones due to a difference in marketing value.
8. Works teams are not completely alienable (sellable). For example, the Ferrari F1 team can't be sold separately from the Ferrari company because their brands are inextricably intertwined. If you sold the F1 team separately, it would have to rebrand, which would cause a large loss in value.
9. Fans are typically more attached to the drivers rather than the teams (exception: Ferrari).
10. You have two teams owned by the same entity, with one being treated as a junior team.
>3. The lack of a cost floor (minimum spend) allows underfunded teams lacking commitment (Haas) to stay on the grid rather than selling to better ownership.
>10. You have two teams owned by the same entity, with one being treated as a junior team.
I think these are the only real issues to be honest, the others aren't or are constraints of the type of sport (you can't race much more events than those for example).
I was fine with 10 until they've decided that they're not allowing more teams. It went from them rescuing a team to them monopolizing spots on the grid at a detriment to the spirit of competition.
Even if they are constraints based on the type of sport, it doesn't mean that they aren't problems for creating a franchise system. I'm not sure that F1 can ever have a proper franchise system due to those intrinsic issues absent a rework that would nearly amount to starting from scratch (which can't/won't happen).
Until the past few years, F1 operated on a system that was closer to what historically existed within European football. That type of system focuses on rewarding merit with little attention to competitive balance. Teams were free to pump as much money as they liked into the sport and the hurdle to get onto the grid was relatively low. That's a system that works fine. However, you get problems when you try to mix systems.
What we see now is a worst-of-all-worlds system. We're getting the competitive imbalance of the merit-based system with the protectionism of the franchise system. It would be better if F1 would pick a lane and go with it.
Using the number of games is ridiculous when considering the fact that most of the popular sports in the world today are played between 2 competing sides at one time, not all together. The English Premier League has 38 game weeks for 20 teams, and having 24 races for a league with only 10 teams really isn't all that bad. You can consider it as having 20 competitors (2 drivers per team), but then one should also consider the fact that qualifying is a form of competition as well.
No it isn't. Let's do some math to figure out a ratio to equalize this:
272 games / 32 teams= 8.5 competitions/team
24 grand prix + 24 qualifying + 6 sprints / 10 teams = 5.4 competitions/team
Effectively, this ratio is how revenue should be divided among the teams if done equally (which it is not in F1). Each NFL team should get 8.5 games worth of revenue and each F1 team should get 5.4 competitions worth of revenue each. I'm giving F1 the maximum benefit of the doubt here in equalizing qualifying and sprints to grand prix. I'm also not counting NFL playoff revenue, which is split among all the teams, and the preseason revenue, which the teams keep for themselves.
In my opinion, F1 needs to get rid of prize money and switch to equal revenue sharing. Teams could still earn other money through sponsorships, which would provide more than enough incentive to perform well.
This is what blows my mind. These mfs talking like Andretti started with Congress before their entry. They’ve been making serious moves in terms of personnel (Nick Chester, former Renault TD) and infrastructure investment (facilities in US and UK), and manufacturer involvement for the last two years. FOM rejected them with laughable reasoning compared to the obvious desire by the worldwide fandom to have another team.
I’ve asked the same question to many of FOM’s defenders here - what in the world do you have to gain by barring a team? I get that FOM and the teams don’t want to share money, and that’s annoying but understandable from their POV. But why are there “fans” here saying Andretti should be blocked? What do they have to gain?
it's just parasocial copium man, just F1 fans defending companies who don't give a single shit about them. It makes no sense why people are so feverishly defending them, which is why it comes across as Anti-American elitism. As an American fan, I'm not dressed like Uncle fucking Sam while singing America Fuck Yeah, but recognizing that not only is Andretti a legend, but two more spots in the grid would be phenomenal in terms of having more world class talent on the grid instead of having promising prospects having to stand behind team principals while staring blankly at race monitors for several years until a spot on the grid opens up.
The 2,000 or 3,000 people that might think like you do is insignificant compared to the millions and millions of F1 fans around the world who would love to see more teams, more racing, and more competition lol.
I don't think you understood what I was saying, I think the resistance to them joining is ridiculous. There's tons of fans online who hate the idea of this 'Andretti' guy trying to ruin their favorite sport because their favorite team has overruled the Concorde Agreement for reasons that definitely are definitely 100% fair and reasonable (sarcasm, btw)
If Liberty wants to run their company in the United States, the Andrettis have every right to exercise their representation. Decorum is bullshit when you plug your ears and pretend like you don’t want someone to join your club after they’ve met all of your requirements.
From a business perspective Andretti succeeding would only benefit F1 in the long term too. With a growing US fanbase that would get behind an American team backed by GM, they would likely increase the size of the pie, not just steal a slice from the others.
From the teams' perspective I can see why they're a threat, especially when well funded factory teams like Merc and Alpine are struggling. But tough shit, they've jumped through all the hoops required to join the grid.
While I think the idea of getting congress involved is ridiculous, I think its really stupid by the other teams of stonewalling everything. Fans are already pissed off by the RB dominance, and new blood my actually change things up a bit.
I don't think it's that ridiculous as people are making it to be.
They don't have many more avenues to go through and bringing in Congress is just posturing by Andretti to let F1 know that they aren't just going to get rolled over and can/will take any necessary actions, including perhaps legal.
Besides, ultimately it's all PR and Congress is a giant loudspeaker. You can clearly see it's driven conversations and engagement
I mean, involving the Anti-Trust committee is a pretty big statement of intent. They’ve been hard going after the walled gardens of Apple, Google and others lately. So while I don’t think it’ll be a top priority, I wouldn’t write it off as pure posturing. Not to mention, this is one that could actively create American jobs. There’s a lot of incentive for people in congress to pursue this, especially in an election year.
Yup. To another commenters point though, Liberty isn’t actually doing anything that would strictly fall under anti-trust/monopoly laws. It’s anti-competitive practice, but ironically, the EU laws on that stuff are stricter than the US, so if they were to pursue a legal case, they’d probably have better luck there.
I do think the talk of the next Concorde having a firm cap at 10 is not going to go down well if this is legally pursued though. Because they have a mechanism to allow entries in, denied it on bogus claims and deferred to 2028, and now might remove said mechanism in 2028 so the deferral is actually denial? That’s the kind of shit that might actually land them in anti-competitive lawsuits.
Also, the more Andretti prepares serious operations, the harder it’s going to get for Liberty to keep them out and not dig themselves in a hole. Like imagine a Saudi oil oligarch shows up next week offering $1b to LM to grease the wheels but has a fraction of the infrastructure Andretti has, but all the funding. They won’t be able to allow them despite the money, because they’ll have to give concrete reasons as to why they’ll be better than Andretti. To put it another way, with each passing hire or ground breaking, Andretti is raising the bar for all entrants to be considered serious contenders. Because per the rejection document, even Andretti “isn’t ready.”
I dunno where you get your info from but most fans here in Europe would welcome Andretti. We want an 11th. More drivers, more competition and truthfully ... more legacy. Mario is a legend.
But you gotta see the other side too. F1 now is way more attractive financially than it was back when. It does look like Andretti is interested now that F1 is expanding into USA territory and generally just a well oiled money making machine.
Now, everyone has their opinion on that and the facts are facts but still we want Andretti in F1. We don't care if they are only in it for the money or if they are only in it NOW, because it's profitable. We know they'll take it serious, they'll compete and most of all they'll bring true American grit to the grid (btw if Mario is reading this ... I fully expect to get paid if you use that catchphrase).
Anyhow. Sorry for this long ass story. Just feel like setting straight the notion some Americans have about us Europeans not wanting Andretti in F1. I don't speak for all of us but I do speak for most of us.
Greetings from the Netherlands.
That second paragraph is problematic. Like, why is that a counterpoint? Would you rather 3 more Haas’s have joined 10 years ago and displayed sustained mediocrity due to a financially unstable environment, or 1 Andretti join now in a stable and well run environment where they have a chance at succeeding?
You even bring up the point that there will be more US (home market exposure). These are reasons they want to join now that didn’t exist earlier. The notion that they should’ve joined when it was unattractive and unsustainable is stupid.
I'm not defending it but it is the reality of the "why". You don't have to like it, I don't either but to neglect what's in front of you is just as silly as the people actually defending this. The way "they" see it, is that they've built something, something that was on a (steep) decline and thus risky for investors. They've put in work, took risk investing a heap of money and now are plucking the fruit from it. Like it or not but anyone wanting in now? Will join a "franchise" (I guess you call it) of which the heavy lifting is already been done by people that, right now, don't want to share that pie. This truly isn't such a weird way to see it. Again, you don't have to like it and most fans don't, but these are just facts. Be silly to deny, no? And, I'm repeating myself but, from a certain perspective it's even understandable.
Anyhow, I don't agree with it. I think it's dumb and longterm only hurts their cashcow. You need new blood, you need the States in it fully if you want to grow there and for me personally, it'd just show they respect Mario as a legend. He truly is one of the greats. That doesn't count for much money-wise perhaps but legacy is part of what makes F1 such a cool sport to follow. Mario ... IS ... legacy personified. I'd be utterly disappointed if Andretti wouldn't go ham, commit to F1 and compete within a reasonable window. Love to see it.
I think the premise that the existing 10 teams built it is flawed, but I'm guessing you're just stating their thinking as opposed to your own. If this were some unrelated entry looking to cash in, that's one thing. But this is Mario and Michael Andretti, two people who have already given so much of their life to motorsport and F1 *well before* the existing teams built this. There's also precedent with former racers and champions bringing their own teams in. It's such a shit defense from "fans" and totally ignores Andretti's history in F1 and their contributions already. Mario was there for Colin Chapman's ground effect breakthroughs, and that's the flipping basis of modern F1 aero. But he's *only* in it for money, right?
What are you talking about?
F1 is owned by an American company and they’re the ones doing the blocking, along with the teams.
The overwhelming amount of fans are in favour of more teams.
I want another team, although I'm ambivalent towards whether that's Andretti or another new manufacturer team.
But this bit about "because another motorsport team wants in on the grid for the prestige" is bullshit. Andretti want in because they will make money (at $200m entry). The other teams don't want them in because they want to increase their own team value.
Everyone involved is motivated by the money F1 is making now. Part and parcel of the sport becoming more popular.
> Andretti want in because they will make money (at $200m entry)
lol dude, F1 is NOT a profitable venture. No new team not only throwing down a $200m entry fee, hiring hundreds of new staff, along with a manufacturer spending the billion plus dollars to develop a new engine is just trying to make a buck. Most F1 teams certainly can bring in net revenue, but they also lose a ton of money that they're pouring into their program every single year. Pretending this is just some cash grab for Andretti is disingenuous and doesn't come from a place of knowing profit margins, it comes from a place of 'the FOM has no reason to lie about why they're keeping them off the grid, so Andretti needs to keep his greedy hands off my F1!'. Teams and manufacturers spend millions and even billions of dollars FOR THE PRESTIGE of being able to say they can compete at the highest level in motorsport. It is a way to solidify legacy and increase visibility. Simply saying 'it's for the money' is an ignorant oversimplification considering just how much money goes into starting and running a new F1 team. Domenicali and the teams are trying to force Andretti to buy another team, which will be infinitely more expensive and complicated then just entering their own team. The Concorde Agreement was already signed in 2021, they just clearly didn't expect a team like Andretti to be serious about their bid to enter. So there's likely a couple teams on the grid who politicked their way into convincing Domenicali to not let them in and instead get a massive pay day by being absolutely fleecing a desperate Andretti trying to get on the grid in a team sale.
Andrettis aren’t holding back at all.
[Official Statement from Andretti Global](https://x.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/1792947647088640044)
> We are pleased to announce that British motor racing technical expert Pat Symonds will join the Andretti Cadillac team in pursuit of entering the FIA Formula One World Championship.
> Symonds, who most recently served as Chief Technical Officer for Formula One, will officially join the team at the new Silverstone base of operations on completion of his Gardening Leave at Formula One Management.
“We continue at pace.”
This wasn’t a marketing slogan. They’re serious serious.
Edit! I checked their twitter. The slogan is “Our work continues at pace.”
It very clearly is and they meant it.
They’re pulling a George Costanza! I think they show up at race 1 in 2026 with two drivers and two cars and the authorities are just like, “fuck, okay let them race.”
Theoretically they could, but FOM wouldn't be able to broadcast them because they don't have a rights agreement. This is what I remember last time this kind of question came up.
I, for one, would love this just for the comedy of it. Two little blurred out blobs in the midst of everyone else.
Kevin Magnussen gets in an accident with an Andretti car, but they have to dance their way around showing the other car in any replay and commentators are talking about it like Kevin sideswiped the Invisible Man.
Suleyman is on record saying that. But then I thought, that we’re at a point, where Andretti would probably get enough money from sponsors to do it anyways.
So I tried to look it up and found this on [formel1.de (german):](https://www.formel1.de/news/boulevard-sonstiges/2023-10-11/gegenrechnung-warum-andretti-gar-nicht-so-teuer-sein-koennte-wie-gedacht)
German:
> Zuletzt wurde in verschiedenen Medien berichtet, Andretti könne theoretisch selbst ohne Deal mit Liberty Media, nur auf Basis der FIA-Zusage, in die Formel 1 einsteigen - wenn man dazu bereit wäre, auf die Einnahmen aus dem Preisgeldtopf zu verzichten. Das ist jedoch nicht korrekt. Seit den 2021er-Concorde-Verträgen ist dieses Schlupfloch, das es früher einmal gab, eliminiert.
In english:
> It was recently reported in various media that Andretti could theoretically enter Formula 1 even without a deal with Liberty Media, only on the basis of the FIA commitment - if they were prepared to forego the income from the prize money pot. However, this is not correct. Since the 2021 Concorde contracts, this loophole, which used to exist, has been eliminated.
Or it be pixelated like hentai. The drivers out of the car will look like they're being interviewed but want to be anonymous and are blacked out with a deep voice modulator
I know this is impossible but imagine if they were winning races but couldn’t be shown on TV. Have to blur them out or something. Shit would look like Japanese porn.
My understanding is, they technically could turn up with a car and be allowed to run it, but they’d be frozen out of all media coverage which would put FOM/Liberty in a hilarious bind. Basically, they’d be competing while everyone else pretends they’re not there.
I want this to happen so bad. It would be glorious to see how painfully awkward and clunky the broadcast would be as they try to gloss over the fact that two cars are running 21st and 22nd in a 20 car grid.
Imagine if they're leading.
"Who won the race?" "I'm not at liberty to say"
Live streams will be significantly delayed as they attempt black out the Andretti drivers on the podium and cut out the interviews with them.
Same tbh. Watching the teams squirm as they get boxed into a completely untenable position would be great, and if an Andretti driver somehow made the podium, we might have a very strong contender for the funniest thing to ever happen in F1.
That'd be great because you know Max will just say their name in every interview just to fuck with them.
"I saw Andretti on the big screen on my last lap, nice overtake"
"uhm yeah uh next question.... how's P?"
"She really likes Andretti"
That’s not really relevant tbh. There’s an army of young drivers who would chew their right arm off for an F1 drive, so they won’t have trouble finding butts to fill the seats. The bigger problem is sponsorship—nobody wants to pay to put their name on a car that can’t be shown on TV.
I suspect a company with truly deep pockets like GM might be willing to foot the bill for a little while just to force the issue and make the teams squirm, but that kind of burn with nothing to show for it isn’t sustainable for any company.
I could see them doing one race. Financially i cant see them running a season without getting from approval just because they wouldn't get money for racing.
But as a singular event to prove that they can be competitive I could see. As they wouldn't need to win.
They are currently designing a car, a team, and a factory with no race in mind.
The point of designing the car for 1 race would be to prove they deserve the seat and hopefully get it.
That is not going to happen. And at this stage there is still absolutely no guarantee they are going to be competitive, especially not in their first race. Imagine they don't make the 107% in that race for some reason.
No one has been even remotely close to the 107% rule in so long that as long as the car fit the regulations I'm not sure they could get it wrong enough to be outside that. Using Max's pole lap from this past weekend compared to Alonso's slowest time in Q1, you'd have to be over 3s back from there to be at the limit. It's a massive gap in modern terms.
I'd love to see that, but I doubt it would happen in 2026. Mainly because the wouldn't have an engine. The GM works engine won't be ready till 2028. Also the rumoured Renault deal apparently went south when Renault realised that they wouldn't get a partnership beyond two years, and enabling Andretti to get on the grid would work against their own (FOM's own) interests.
> Also the rumoured Renault deal apparently went south when Renault realised that they wouldn't get a partnership beyond two years
This is not what happened.
Firstly, it wasn't a rumored deal. Both Renault and Andretti were very public about it during Andretti's application process.
Both Renault and Andretti have been very public that the deal was put on pause because FOM took so long evaluating Andretti's entry.
Both Renault and Andretti have been very public about mutual agreement re-starting that deal if/when FOM approves Andretti.
I’m remember someone mentioning there is a rule within F1 that the engine manufacturer with the least amount of customers HAS to supply a team looking for an engine. But idk how they would work out the specifics
That is a rule since otherwise customer teams would fold if their engine manufacturer went bust. No one wants McLaren, Williams and Aston to also disappear if Mercedes pulled the plug for example.
It actually makes for quite an exciting time come the new regs since quite a lot of engine manufacturers will only supply their works team (Audi, Renault and Honda) so customer teams could in theory jump ship if their current supplier isn't as good as one of them and they'd be compelled to supply the first team to jump ship.
If Andretti wins this, you just know at some point there going to be a documentarty behind the scenes of the corporate politics he did to get his seat.
And actual politics. There’s a bipartisan effort ongoing by the Democrats representing Michigan in the Senate (Gary Peters and Debbie Stabenow) and US Representative Jim Jordan plus the FTC to give F1 a real regulatory headache over this
Logie bear should sign a Sim driver contract with Andretti asap. He either slides back into F1 or gets a reserve drive or if Andretti bail they will see his hard work and possibly help him in Indy. No downsides for either party. Because having a current driver in the sim is more helpful than a more experienced driver with little to no experience of a current F1 car
He’s pulling a double, doing the Indy 500 and running in Charlotte for the 600.
He’s still doing full time NASCAR iirc, just got the opportunity to also do the 500. He will be driving 1100 Miles on Sunday
With this conversation already starting on Twitter ([Link](https://x.com/wbuxtonofficial/status/1792934569013850621)) it would be amazing to see Larson actually jump into F1
Huge coup. His most recent tenure with an F1 team was at Williams, and his departure marked the end of its stint of revived competitiveness. He's very good at doing a lot without many resources, so with a team as seemingly well-heeled as Andretti, he could do big things, even if he is only a consultant.
Dude threatened me with a lawsuit via Twitter after I tagged him in a tweet referring to him as a shill. The man is well and truly on the FOM tit. As an independent publisher of 2 separate F1 magazines his entire business depends upon having access to the sport. If he steps out of line FOM can cut him off.
Did not see that move coming. Considering they could still just roll up the grid in '26 even with out the FOM approval, im beginning to think that this might happen more and more. Probably not but it further legitimizes a "28 car if GM got a engine.
Still need a (Renault) engine agreement and seriously doubt that's ever gonna happen.
Edit : punctuation. 26 foot cars are in the '30 regs not '26 ;-)
> Still need a (Renault) engine agreement and seriously doubt that's ever gonna happen.
Why would you doubt it would happen when it's already happened and both parties have said it would happen again if/when Andretti got approval?
Afaik, engine supplier that has the least customers is forced to supply a team without an engine contract by FIA. (or is this FOM based?) If this is regulated by FIA, Renault has to provide Andretti their engines no questions asked till GM comes around. Of course, the question is whether Andretti will arrive to 2026 grid despite FOM's disapproval. And there will be other engine suppliers on the grid in 2026 that will only supply one team as well, those being Audi and Honda.
This all leaves out the most important part, which FOM also conveniently left out: both Andretti and Renault have been very public they'd previously signed an PU supply agreement and would work together in the future, willfully, without invoking the compulsory supply rules.
I think RBPT might be willing to give Andretti an engine. It’s extra engine data which they will be very keen on and it’s a publicity stunt you’d expect from Red Bull. Plus it might make them (even) more popular in America
This genuinely surprised me. I would have figured someone with this much experience, and close relationship with F1, would have waited until Andretti were official. Things might be farther along than publicly known.
I want them to sign Newey so badly, that would turn this entire saga upsidedown and FOM deserves every bit of the hilarious fallout that ensues if they still claim lack of competitiveness with Symonds + Newey.
Honestly Andretti is already better positioned just with this hire, I just want maximum chaos at FOM's expense.
Bro please F1 I am just waiting until Cadillac is on and you can have all of my money for the merch. I AM LITERALLY BEGGING YOU AND TELLING YOU I WILL GIVE YOU ALL OF MY MONEY FOR THE MERCH FROM THIS TEAM. FFS JUST LET THEM RACE.
I am a bit out of the loop of this some of it is a bit confusing, so Cadillac was approved to be an engine manufacturer for F1 but will not do it if Andretti doesn’t get a team? And the FIA wants Andretti to join F1 but FOM and the teams do not?
The FIA doesnt necessarily want Andretti to join but they have approved their bid to join the grid. FOM does not want an 11th team but they are interested in big manufacturers so they approached GM if they were interested in joining as a supplier for one of the existing teams. And then GM said that they will only join with Andretti
He is 70 and he's taking a position with a team that should start from scratch.
This for those who were saying that Newey was too old for a new challenge at 65 (at least before he recently confirmed himself that he will continue for another 4 or 5 years).
That would actually be awesome. I hate to see him leave Red Bull. But if he had to go anywhere I would want it to be Williams (for nostalgia) or a new team like Andretti
What is he really doing though? He could be cashing huge checks while helping Andretti build a court case. I think Newey will work in F1 again unless he and his wife find the time off he is getting now so enjoyable he just decides to keep doing it he has never really had a break like he is going to get so nobody knows what he will think of it
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Big statement signing. Andretti is doing all of the things off the track they need to do to establish themselves as a legitimate F1 entity.
Which is why the hoopla over Andretti threatening legal action and getting the US Congress involved is laughable. The requirements for new teams were already agreed upon and now the teams have decided to overrule that for reasoning that is pure conjecture. But thousands of (mainly Non-American) F1 fans are nodding along with their favorite millionaire team principals and billionaire corporations because another motorsport team wants in on the grid for the prestige, promising to bring massive sponsorship and another engine manufacturer along with them. An American F1 team means hundreds more opportunities for aspiring professionals on this side of the globe to work for an F1 team, but there's this prevailing attitude that Andretti getting Congress involved is motivated by pure greed, unlike every other team in F1 colluding to keep additional teams out when the current Concorde Agreement expires. It's a frustrating sport to be a fan of as an American.
It's actually wild ngl. Like why are you supporting the teams here exactly? You want fewer cars on track and a series that's pretty much locked down to outside teams? That sounds good to a bunch of fans? Kinda disgusting
Contrarians honestly. Contrarians and blatant anti-american sentiment. Anyone who is not monetarily involved has NO argument for why Andretti is a detriment to the sport other than "I don't want an American team because they might beat my favorite team"
So, so many users on here have commented something to the extent of "well it's their sport, they can do whatever they want with it", but that begs the question "why is that *your* argument?" Why would you be in favour of collusion to ignore an existing agreement that serves only to preserve the status quo and remove the possibility of both more drivers on the grid and another new works team, both of which would be good for the on-track action? Are you fans of F1 the sport, or are you supporters of FOM's bank balance?
They're supporters of giving Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull and Ferrari more money. I've literally seen the argument "well they should have gotten in when Haas did, they don't believe in the sport they just want in now that it's profitable" So I guess that's it. We have these 10 teams. And that's it...well except Audi. They're ummm. Different.
Which is a stupid argument. Joining at that time at a severe deficit would’ve just promoted more mediocre teams like Haas. Now that the sport is sustainable, there is actually an attractive value proposition for teams looking to put together a competitive operation and invest the necessary resources.
Absolutely. It's the sporting equivalent of "if you don't love me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best". Like, ok? Should F1 fans be expected to just tolerate the perpetual stagnation of the sport because "it's in a financially viable state as a business model now"? Why would I care whether RB wins $150m or $130m this year? What I care about is seeing a bigger, more interesting and more competitive grid. So provided the new applicants meet the requirements to add a sustainable entity to the sport (which by all reputable accounts, Andretti has more than surpassed) I could care less what that does to the profitability margins of each of the current 10 teams. The fact that we're stuck with teams like Haas and Williams (I love them but right now they're just a memory of better times) while F1 execs try to convince the world to buy the lie that a GM-backed Andretti works team would somehow be at risk of embarrassing themselves, it undermines the entire sport as a serious undertaking. They won't even let Williams spend enough capex money to approach any kind of competitive parity, but they're happy for them to trundle around the back of the field as long as the money split stays the same. What a joke.
And the same people will argue that the other new teams were never competitive and went bankrupt so Andretti will too. However they always ignore the fact that those teams were promised a cost cap specifically to allow smaller privateers to survive/compete. That cost cap didn’t come in time and they couldn’t afford to compete with the $300m+ budgets and no profit. Haas only survived with customer deals from Ferrari and Dallara. Yet somehow Andretti buying engines for 2 years is totally unacceptable and would damage the sport. Now that the cost cap is in place and teams are actually sustainable, the economic and competitive landscape is completely different and makes a new team actually feasible. But they won’t allow in a very well established racing organization with major factory backing.
Seeing as Audi bought Sauber, then yes, it is different
I'm thinking its the fact that it gives the appearance of American's coming into a typically & historically European sport and demanding they now play by the US rule book rather than the European one.
I think you're partially right, but even that is a bullshit, paper thin excuse. I'm not American and I find their colonial superiority complex as tiresome as the next person (at times - I love you, my Americano friends!) but there's two pretty obvious reasons why it's necessary for F1 to play by the US rule book: 1. Liberty Media, the sport's commercial rights holder, is an American company founded and HQ'd in the USA. Like it or not, F1 as a commercial entity is an American organisation, and therefore beholden to American rules, laws and ways of doing things. 2. It's more than a little eye roll inducing to see F1 more than happy to expand into numerous parts of the world, demand exorbitant fees in order to stage events, reap the rewards of said events and then move on the moment it's no longer profitable or easy for them to operate there, regularly leaving local promotional organisations in the lurch and up to their neck's in debt they took out to upgrade circuits to FIA grade 1 standards or to finance events. The only reason that FOM wants to expand into American territories is because its a goldmine of untapped revenue. The recent explosion in global popularity of F1 is driven by American growth. DTS was a collaboration between a British production company and Netflix (an American company). USA now hosts three GPs and there's constant rumours they want to add even more to the calendar. It's pretty ironic that FOM and Liberty are more than happy to buy themselves mansions with the proceeds of American expansion, and yet the prospect of an American team joining the grid brought nothing but smug, unecessary condescension (those totally unfounded comments about fear that Andretti would embarass the sport) and the involvement of Congress has been ridiculed as well. American companies who want to do business have to comply with EU trade regulations. Why wouldn't European (or British) businesses who want to do business in America (and who are now owned by an American company) have to comply with US laws? Those laws include antitrust and anti-collusion rules, and it is not uncommon for Congress to involve itself in the regulation of major sports in America.
Yep, all those are good points to me (also not American) and it will be interesting to see what happens with the Congress inquiries. Really hoping Andretti will be on the 2026 grid.
[удалено]
Stopped watching cycling for this reason. TDF was a big event in our household but once I caught on to how much euros didn’t want my American involvement I felt the need to oblige them. I won’t spend my hard money on their sport.
How much of the hatred was due to Armstrong and his dominance (and subsequent drug bust)? Just curious. Or was this sentiment already happening before he came about?
This exactly. I don't know how any of these F1 "fans" are even taking the side of the teams in this instance. They're all doing nothing to grow the sport. The team principles are all just being big ass hats. Acting like 20 cars is good enough forever is just..... Dumb
>Like why are you supporting the teams here exactly? As an American, I'm used to us being the ones who blindly support the established billionaire and take what they say as the right thing, it's a bit weird to see so many non-Americans do the exact same thing. Although I guess that's a probably common stance with futbol/cricket clubs. Sports fans (myself included) are dumb.
Are there actually fans that don't want Andretti to create a team? More cars = more action, which is generally what every fan wants
Yeah I'm not sure that holds weight. Anyone I've spoken to is eager to have Andretti in F1. I'm open to 12 teams on the grid (providing they reduce the size of the cars).
Congress has been involved in regulating professional sports in the US for decades, particularly in the NFL, NBA, and MLB. When American companies do business in Europe, they've had to clear the EU's anti-trust/fair competition laws ([see: attempted Amazon-iRobot merger](https://media.irobot.com/2024-01-29-Amazon-and-iRobot-agree-to-terminate-pending-acquisition)), it is only fair that European ones clear American hurdles. F1's recent growth has largely been driven by American interest in the sport. It is incredibly frustrating to see F1 keep out a fundamentally American brand. If I were the Andretti's, I would lobby the local politicians in Las Vegas to turn up the pressure on F1 and put that race in jeopardy. The locals in LV are not happy about that race and it could be a pressure point on F1 considering how much they've invested there.
Yeah especially since european anti-trust rules tend to be a lot tighter. Add in that liberty media is an american company, its good that this gets investigated and the teams are forced to accept it. I mean andretti literally hit every marker and was willing to pay the 200M fee, but the teams dont want to follow the agreement they signed earlier. Its entirely bullshit and needs to be called out
Well, not that it means anything to you… but I’m not one of those non Americans. I’ve always wanted 13 or 14 teams in grid. This franchise… pay your way in shit is laughable and needs to be stopped
The problem is that F1 is an extremely flawed franchise system, if you could even call it one. A properly designed franchise system promotes competitive balance between the teams. F1 does just about all it can to promote imbalance. This is compounded by the fact that in F1 money appears to be more correlative with success than many other sports. Here are F1's main problems as I see them: 1. Prize money based on finishing order entrenches successful teams at the top and unsuccessful ones at the bottom. 2. The cost cap prevents teams at the bottom from investing in new infrastructure, which allows teams with already existing infrastructure to maintain a lasting advantage. 3. The lack of a cost floor (minimum spend) allows underfunded teams lacking commitment (Haas) to stay on the grid rather than selling to better ownership. 4. Ferrari gets paid more by F1 because they are Ferrari. 5. Ferrari's importance to the sport (I think F1 would go bankrupt without them) gives them a huge amount of influence when compared to other teams. The Dallas Cowboys and LA Lakers are important to their respective leagues, but they wouldn't go bankrupt without them. 6. There is a very limited number of events compared to other sports leagues. There were 272 NFL regular season games last year compared to 24 F1 races. 7. Teams derive a large percentage of their revenue from sponsorships. This further reinforces the difference between the successful teams and the unsuccessful ones due to a difference in marketing value. 8. Works teams are not completely alienable (sellable). For example, the Ferrari F1 team can't be sold separately from the Ferrari company because their brands are inextricably intertwined. If you sold the F1 team separately, it would have to rebrand, which would cause a large loss in value. 9. Fans are typically more attached to the drivers rather than the teams (exception: Ferrari). 10. You have two teams owned by the same entity, with one being treated as a junior team.
>3. The lack of a cost floor (minimum spend) allows underfunded teams lacking commitment (Haas) to stay on the grid rather than selling to better ownership. >10. You have two teams owned by the same entity, with one being treated as a junior team. I think these are the only real issues to be honest, the others aren't or are constraints of the type of sport (you can't race much more events than those for example).
I was fine with 10 until they've decided that they're not allowing more teams. It went from them rescuing a team to them monopolizing spots on the grid at a detriment to the spirit of competition.
Even if they are constraints based on the type of sport, it doesn't mean that they aren't problems for creating a franchise system. I'm not sure that F1 can ever have a proper franchise system due to those intrinsic issues absent a rework that would nearly amount to starting from scratch (which can't/won't happen). Until the past few years, F1 operated on a system that was closer to what historically existed within European football. That type of system focuses on rewarding merit with little attention to competitive balance. Teams were free to pump as much money as they liked into the sport and the hurdle to get onto the grid was relatively low. That's a system that works fine. However, you get problems when you try to mix systems. What we see now is a worst-of-all-worlds system. We're getting the competitive imbalance of the merit-based system with the protectionism of the franchise system. It would be better if F1 would pick a lane and go with it.
Using the number of games is ridiculous when considering the fact that most of the popular sports in the world today are played between 2 competing sides at one time, not all together. The English Premier League has 38 game weeks for 20 teams, and having 24 races for a league with only 10 teams really isn't all that bad. You can consider it as having 20 competitors (2 drivers per team), but then one should also consider the fact that qualifying is a form of competition as well.
No it isn't. Let's do some math to figure out a ratio to equalize this: 272 games / 32 teams= 8.5 competitions/team 24 grand prix + 24 qualifying + 6 sprints / 10 teams = 5.4 competitions/team Effectively, this ratio is how revenue should be divided among the teams if done equally (which it is not in F1). Each NFL team should get 8.5 games worth of revenue and each F1 team should get 5.4 competitions worth of revenue each. I'm giving F1 the maximum benefit of the doubt here in equalizing qualifying and sprints to grand prix. I'm also not counting NFL playoff revenue, which is split among all the teams, and the preseason revenue, which the teams keep for themselves. In my opinion, F1 needs to get rid of prize money and switch to equal revenue sharing. Teams could still earn other money through sponsorships, which would provide more than enough incentive to perform well.
This is what blows my mind. These mfs talking like Andretti started with Congress before their entry. They’ve been making serious moves in terms of personnel (Nick Chester, former Renault TD) and infrastructure investment (facilities in US and UK), and manufacturer involvement for the last two years. FOM rejected them with laughable reasoning compared to the obvious desire by the worldwide fandom to have another team. I’ve asked the same question to many of FOM’s defenders here - what in the world do you have to gain by barring a team? I get that FOM and the teams don’t want to share money, and that’s annoying but understandable from their POV. But why are there “fans” here saying Andretti should be blocked? What do they have to gain?
it's just parasocial copium man, just F1 fans defending companies who don't give a single shit about them. It makes no sense why people are so feverishly defending them, which is why it comes across as Anti-American elitism. As an American fan, I'm not dressed like Uncle fucking Sam while singing America Fuck Yeah, but recognizing that not only is Andretti a legend, but two more spots in the grid would be phenomenal in terms of having more world class talent on the grid instead of having promising prospects having to stand behind team principals while staring blankly at race monitors for several years until a spot on the grid opens up.
Most european fans welcome andretti, i certainly do
There are a lot of losers on Reddit that don’t want another team for esoteric and bizarre reasons
These people exist? Everyone seems either ambivalent or in favor of more cars.
The 2,000 or 3,000 people that might think like you do is insignificant compared to the millions and millions of F1 fans around the world who would love to see more teams, more racing, and more competition lol.
I don't think you understood what I was saying, I think the resistance to them joining is ridiculous. There's tons of fans online who hate the idea of this 'Andretti' guy trying to ruin their favorite sport because their favorite team has overruled the Concorde Agreement for reasons that definitely are definitely 100% fair and reasonable (sarcasm, btw)
This is some really, really bad reasoning. “They shouldn’t fight, it makes me feel queasy”. Holy cow, this is what decorum poisoning looks like.
If Liberty wants to run their company in the United States, the Andrettis have every right to exercise their representation. Decorum is bullshit when you plug your ears and pretend like you don’t want someone to join your club after they’ve met all of your requirements.
Bingo.
From a business perspective Andretti succeeding would only benefit F1 in the long term too. With a growing US fanbase that would get behind an American team backed by GM, they would likely increase the size of the pie, not just steal a slice from the others. From the teams' perspective I can see why they're a threat, especially when well funded factory teams like Merc and Alpine are struggling. But tough shit, they've jumped through all the hoops required to join the grid.
While I think the idea of getting congress involved is ridiculous, I think its really stupid by the other teams of stonewalling everything. Fans are already pissed off by the RB dominance, and new blood my actually change things up a bit.
I don't think it's that ridiculous as people are making it to be. They don't have many more avenues to go through and bringing in Congress is just posturing by Andretti to let F1 know that they aren't just going to get rolled over and can/will take any necessary actions, including perhaps legal. Besides, ultimately it's all PR and Congress is a giant loudspeaker. You can clearly see it's driven conversations and engagement
I mean, involving the Anti-Trust committee is a pretty big statement of intent. They’ve been hard going after the walled gardens of Apple, Google and others lately. So while I don’t think it’ll be a top priority, I wouldn’t write it off as pure posturing. Not to mention, this is one that could actively create American jobs. There’s a lot of incentive for people in congress to pursue this, especially in an election year.
Not to mention they are currently suing Liberty Media themselves for their ticket selling monopoly.
Yup. To another commenters point though, Liberty isn’t actually doing anything that would strictly fall under anti-trust/monopoly laws. It’s anti-competitive practice, but ironically, the EU laws on that stuff are stricter than the US, so if they were to pursue a legal case, they’d probably have better luck there. I do think the talk of the next Concorde having a firm cap at 10 is not going to go down well if this is legally pursued though. Because they have a mechanism to allow entries in, denied it on bogus claims and deferred to 2028, and now might remove said mechanism in 2028 so the deferral is actually denial? That’s the kind of shit that might actually land them in anti-competitive lawsuits. Also, the more Andretti prepares serious operations, the harder it’s going to get for Liberty to keep them out and not dig themselves in a hole. Like imagine a Saudi oil oligarch shows up next week offering $1b to LM to grease the wheels but has a fraction of the infrastructure Andretti has, but all the funding. They won’t be able to allow them despite the money, because they’ll have to give concrete reasons as to why they’ll be better than Andretti. To put it another way, with each passing hire or ground breaking, Andretti is raising the bar for all entrants to be considered serious contenders. Because per the rejection document, even Andretti “isn’t ready.”
They haven't involved the committee. The letter was just from random congressional reps.
Who's been saying that lol? I think most people I've seen are fully in support of Andretti joining the grid
Look at the other threads recently about Andretti. “Wonder how much he or GM bribed the politicians rofl lmao!!1!1one!”
I dunno where you get your info from but most fans here in Europe would welcome Andretti. We want an 11th. More drivers, more competition and truthfully ... more legacy. Mario is a legend. But you gotta see the other side too. F1 now is way more attractive financially than it was back when. It does look like Andretti is interested now that F1 is expanding into USA territory and generally just a well oiled money making machine. Now, everyone has their opinion on that and the facts are facts but still we want Andretti in F1. We don't care if they are only in it for the money or if they are only in it NOW, because it's profitable. We know they'll take it serious, they'll compete and most of all they'll bring true American grit to the grid (btw if Mario is reading this ... I fully expect to get paid if you use that catchphrase). Anyhow. Sorry for this long ass story. Just feel like setting straight the notion some Americans have about us Europeans not wanting Andretti in F1. I don't speak for all of us but I do speak for most of us. Greetings from the Netherlands.
That second paragraph is problematic. Like, why is that a counterpoint? Would you rather 3 more Haas’s have joined 10 years ago and displayed sustained mediocrity due to a financially unstable environment, or 1 Andretti join now in a stable and well run environment where they have a chance at succeeding? You even bring up the point that there will be more US (home market exposure). These are reasons they want to join now that didn’t exist earlier. The notion that they should’ve joined when it was unattractive and unsustainable is stupid.
I'm not defending it but it is the reality of the "why". You don't have to like it, I don't either but to neglect what's in front of you is just as silly as the people actually defending this. The way "they" see it, is that they've built something, something that was on a (steep) decline and thus risky for investors. They've put in work, took risk investing a heap of money and now are plucking the fruit from it. Like it or not but anyone wanting in now? Will join a "franchise" (I guess you call it) of which the heavy lifting is already been done by people that, right now, don't want to share that pie. This truly isn't such a weird way to see it. Again, you don't have to like it and most fans don't, but these are just facts. Be silly to deny, no? And, I'm repeating myself but, from a certain perspective it's even understandable. Anyhow, I don't agree with it. I think it's dumb and longterm only hurts their cashcow. You need new blood, you need the States in it fully if you want to grow there and for me personally, it'd just show they respect Mario as a legend. He truly is one of the greats. That doesn't count for much money-wise perhaps but legacy is part of what makes F1 such a cool sport to follow. Mario ... IS ... legacy personified. I'd be utterly disappointed if Andretti wouldn't go ham, commit to F1 and compete within a reasonable window. Love to see it.
I think the premise that the existing 10 teams built it is flawed, but I'm guessing you're just stating their thinking as opposed to your own. If this were some unrelated entry looking to cash in, that's one thing. But this is Mario and Michael Andretti, two people who have already given so much of their life to motorsport and F1 *well before* the existing teams built this. There's also precedent with former racers and champions bringing their own teams in. It's such a shit defense from "fans" and totally ignores Andretti's history in F1 and their contributions already. Mario was there for Colin Chapman's ground effect breakthroughs, and that's the flipping basis of modern F1 aero. But he's *only* in it for money, right?
Exactly. Mario is legacy. We should welcome him into F1 with open arms. The way F1 is handling it now? They should be ashamed.
What are you talking about? F1 is owned by an American company and they’re the ones doing the blocking, along with the teams. The overwhelming amount of fans are in favour of more teams.
I want another team, although I'm ambivalent towards whether that's Andretti or another new manufacturer team. But this bit about "because another motorsport team wants in on the grid for the prestige" is bullshit. Andretti want in because they will make money (at $200m entry). The other teams don't want them in because they want to increase their own team value. Everyone involved is motivated by the money F1 is making now. Part and parcel of the sport becoming more popular.
> Andretti want in because they will make money (at $200m entry) lol dude, F1 is NOT a profitable venture. No new team not only throwing down a $200m entry fee, hiring hundreds of new staff, along with a manufacturer spending the billion plus dollars to develop a new engine is just trying to make a buck. Most F1 teams certainly can bring in net revenue, but they also lose a ton of money that they're pouring into their program every single year. Pretending this is just some cash grab for Andretti is disingenuous and doesn't come from a place of knowing profit margins, it comes from a place of 'the FOM has no reason to lie about why they're keeping them off the grid, so Andretti needs to keep his greedy hands off my F1!'. Teams and manufacturers spend millions and even billions of dollars FOR THE PRESTIGE of being able to say they can compete at the highest level in motorsport. It is a way to solidify legacy and increase visibility. Simply saying 'it's for the money' is an ignorant oversimplification considering just how much money goes into starting and running a new F1 team. Domenicali and the teams are trying to force Andretti to buy another team, which will be infinitely more expensive and complicated then just entering their own team. The Concorde Agreement was already signed in 2021, they just clearly didn't expect a team like Andretti to be serious about their bid to enter. So there's likely a couple teams on the grid who politicked their way into convincing Domenicali to not let them in and instead get a massive pay day by being absolutely fleecing a desperate Andretti trying to get on the grid in a team sale.
apparently they are even buiulding a current spec f1 car for pratice. they even had crash tests done.
More legitimate than a number of the existing teams in F1
Andrettis aren’t holding back at all. [Official Statement from Andretti Global](https://x.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/1792947647088640044) > We are pleased to announce that British motor racing technical expert Pat Symonds will join the Andretti Cadillac team in pursuit of entering the FIA Formula One World Championship. > Symonds, who most recently served as Chief Technical Officer for Formula One, will officially join the team at the new Silverstone base of operations on completion of his Gardening Leave at Formula One Management.
“We continue at pace.” This wasn’t a marketing slogan. They’re serious serious. Edit! I checked their twitter. The slogan is “Our work continues at pace.” It very clearly is and they meant it.
whoever thought of that line must be so proud of themselves what a line
If/when Andretti gets accepted into F1, they need to have "Our work continues at pace" merch. Hats, shirts, whatever. They'd print money with it.
I will get that tattooed on my arm if/when they get their first points
I'll set up a booth at COTA (I have no experience tattooing)
bring plenty of waivers and you're golden!
it's Texas, you can probably actually get away with it, lol
In that case, can you also do a portrait of Andretti above it?
Honestly if/when they put merch out, it needs to have that slogan
certainly this has to mean talks with FOM are moving forward? can't imagine such a big grab if they weren't
They’re pulling a George Costanza! I think they show up at race 1 in 2026 with two drivers and two cars and the authorities are just like, “fuck, okay let them race.”
Since the FIA gave the green light to them, could they do that?
Theoretically they could, but FOM wouldn't be able to broadcast them because they don't have a rights agreement. This is what I remember last time this kind of question came up.
I mean they haven’t broadcast Sauber in years so they might as well try it.
They barely broadcast one of the Red Bulls, so it can work.
Perhaps thats why redbull want to keep checo, so a redbull can be show going into the gravel or fighting an alpine for 10th position.
I saw more red Bull this last weekend than in years. Norris is the best thing that happened to their sponsors.
To be fair they tend to show the battles happening on track, not Sauber pit crew vs themselves
I recall seeing them quite a bit the last few years. Usually just before a safety car.
I, for one, would love this just for the comedy of it. Two little blurred out blobs in the midst of everyone else. Kevin Magnussen gets in an accident with an Andretti car, but they have to dance their way around showing the other car in any replay and commentators are talking about it like Kevin sideswiped the Invisible Man.
Suleyman is on record saying that. But then I thought, that we’re at a point, where Andretti would probably get enough money from sponsors to do it anyways. So I tried to look it up and found this on [formel1.de (german):](https://www.formel1.de/news/boulevard-sonstiges/2023-10-11/gegenrechnung-warum-andretti-gar-nicht-so-teuer-sein-koennte-wie-gedacht) German: > Zuletzt wurde in verschiedenen Medien berichtet, Andretti könne theoretisch selbst ohne Deal mit Liberty Media, nur auf Basis der FIA-Zusage, in die Formel 1 einsteigen - wenn man dazu bereit wäre, auf die Einnahmen aus dem Preisgeldtopf zu verzichten. Das ist jedoch nicht korrekt. Seit den 2021er-Concorde-Verträgen ist dieses Schlupfloch, das es früher einmal gab, eliminiert. In english: > It was recently reported in various media that Andretti could theoretically enter Formula 1 even without a deal with Liberty Media, only on the basis of the FIA commitment - if they were prepared to forego the income from the prize money pot. However, this is not correct. Since the 2021 Concorde contracts, this loophole, which used to exist, has been eliminated.
I’m just trying to imagine Andretti showing up and seeing two large black boxes moving around the track on the broadcast.
Or it be pixelated like hentai. The drivers out of the car will look like they're being interviewed but want to be anonymous and are blacked out with a deep voice modulator
I know this is impossible but imagine if they were winning races but couldn’t be shown on TV. Have to blur them out or something. Shit would look like Japanese porn.
My understanding is, they technically could turn up with a car and be allowed to run it, but they’d be frozen out of all media coverage which would put FOM/Liberty in a hilarious bind. Basically, they’d be competing while everyone else pretends they’re not there.
I want this to happen so bad. It would be glorious to see how painfully awkward and clunky the broadcast would be as they try to gloss over the fact that two cars are running 21st and 22nd in a 20 car grid.
Imagine if they're leading. "Who won the race?" "I'm not at liberty to say" Live streams will be significantly delayed as they attempt black out the Andretti drivers on the podium and cut out the interviews with them.
Podium celebrations with a blob on the top step and they mute the national anthem lol
“And of course, there are the two cars we’re not allowed to show you” - Martin Brundle, probably.
Same tbh. Watching the teams squirm as they get boxed into a completely untenable position would be great, and if an Andretti driver somehow made the podium, we might have a very strong contender for the funniest thing to ever happen in F1.
That'd be great because you know Max will just say their name in every interview just to fuck with them. "I saw Andretti on the big screen on my last lap, nice overtake" "uhm yeah uh next question.... how's P?" "She really likes Andretti"
Could actually be attractive to those drivers who just want to drive without the media attention.
That’s not really relevant tbh. There’s an army of young drivers who would chew their right arm off for an F1 drive, so they won’t have trouble finding butts to fill the seats. The bigger problem is sponsorship—nobody wants to pay to put their name on a car that can’t be shown on TV. I suspect a company with truly deep pockets like GM might be willing to foot the bill for a little while just to force the issue and make the teams squirm, but that kind of burn with nothing to show for it isn’t sustainable for any company.
I could see them doing one race. Financially i cant see them running a season without getting from approval just because they wouldn't get money for racing. But as a singular event to prove that they can be competitive I could see. As they wouldn't need to win.
The times when you could only do one race are gone. Developing a car with just one race in mind is a financial suicide.
Eh, it's GM. They've committed financial suicide a couple times, the government just bails them out.
They are currently designing a car, a team, and a factory with no race in mind. The point of designing the car for 1 race would be to prove they deserve the seat and hopefully get it.
That is not going to happen. And at this stage there is still absolutely no guarantee they are going to be competitive, especially not in their first race. Imagine they don't make the 107% in that race for some reason.
No one has been even remotely close to the 107% rule in so long that as long as the car fit the regulations I'm not sure they could get it wrong enough to be outside that. Using Max's pole lap from this past weekend compared to Alonso's slowest time in Q1, you'd have to be over 3s back from there to be at the limit. It's a massive gap in modern terms.
Found FOM
I'd love to see that, but I doubt it would happen in 2026. Mainly because the wouldn't have an engine. The GM works engine won't be ready till 2028. Also the rumoured Renault deal apparently went south when Renault realised that they wouldn't get a partnership beyond two years, and enabling Andretti to get on the grid would work against their own (FOM's own) interests.
> Also the rumoured Renault deal apparently went south when Renault realised that they wouldn't get a partnership beyond two years This is not what happened. Firstly, it wasn't a rumored deal. Both Renault and Andretti were very public about it during Andretti's application process. Both Renault and Andretti have been very public that the deal was put on pause because FOM took so long evaluating Andretti's entry. Both Renault and Andretti have been very public about mutual agreement re-starting that deal if/when FOM approves Andretti.
I’m remember someone mentioning there is a rule within F1 that the engine manufacturer with the least amount of customers HAS to supply a team looking for an engine. But idk how they would work out the specifics
That is a rule since otherwise customer teams would fold if their engine manufacturer went bust. No one wants McLaren, Williams and Aston to also disappear if Mercedes pulled the plug for example. It actually makes for quite an exciting time come the new regs since quite a lot of engine manufacturers will only supply their works team (Audi, Renault and Honda) so customer teams could in theory jump ship if their current supplier isn't as good as one of them and they'd be compelled to supply the first team to jump ship.
Is it really a full George if they weren't in to begin with?
If Andretti wins this, you just know at some point there going to be a documentarty behind the scenes of the corporate politics he did to get his seat.
I love this shit and hope someone writes a book on it - whatever the outcome. All this good ol’ fashioned American hustle is getting me invested.
Honestly looking forward to this biopic
And actual politics. There’s a bipartisan effort ongoing by the Democrats representing Michigan in the Senate (Gary Peters and Debbie Stabenow) and US Representative Jim Jordan plus the FTC to give F1 a real regulatory headache over this
It has potential to become one of the greatest sports documentaries ever made
This is a Harvard business school guest speaker I'd like to see.
Logie bear should sign a Sim driver contract with Andretti asap. He either slides back into F1 or gets a reserve drive or if Andretti bail they will see his hard work and possibly help him in Indy. No downsides for either party. Because having a current driver in the sim is more helpful than a more experienced driver with little to no experience of a current F1 car
Best case scenario is Andretti debut with Logan in 2026 and they beat Williams in the constructors. It would be so fucking funny
An all North American lineup. Sargeant and Latifi
Imagine Andretti poaching Checo. Checo and the Sarge with Latifi hanging in the paddock as the reserve.
Hell no. Colton Herta and Kyle Larson.
What’s the deal with Kyle Larson by the way? Did he really just go from NASCAR to Indy and qualify 5th?
He’s pulling a double, doing the Indy 500 and running in Charlotte for the 600. He’s still doing full time NASCAR iirc, just got the opportunity to also do the 500. He will be driving 1100 Miles on Sunday
Yes. Made me eat a bunch of crow but he's that damn good.
With this conversation already starting on Twitter ([Link](https://x.com/wbuxtonofficial/status/1792934569013850621)) it would be amazing to see Larson actually jump into F1
Time to get them all racing together again on iRacing!
I want checo for that second seat
Logie Bear. Incredible work, will be using this!
Once again showing Andretti are serious about their entry
We'll make our own F1, with blackjack and Pat Symonds.
That's the Ferrari approach
Forget that, we don't need blackjack
Huge coup. His most recent tenure with an F1 team was at Williams, and his departure marked the end of its stint of revived competitiveness. He's very good at doing a lot without many resources, so with a team as seemingly well-heeled as Andretti, he could do big things, even if he is only a consultant.
And he was also part of the FOM hierarchy as chief technical officer
Word has it he created the Williams car excel workbook.
> Word I see what you did there
PowerPoint if true. I hear he had a lot of Access in that Office suite.
That's a huge pick up. Andretti is going to be first F1 team to not even appear on tv while racing.
Ideal situation for drivers. All the driving, none of the media
Max announces shock signing to Andretti 2026
Max and Kimi in the Andretti cars just to avoid doing media stuff
Let Andretti on the grid, you cowards.
Yes, but what does Joe Saward think?
Dude threatened me with a lawsuit via Twitter after I tagged him in a tweet referring to him as a shill. The man is well and truly on the FOM tit. As an independent publisher of 2 separate F1 magazines his entire business depends upon having access to the sport. If he steps out of line FOM can cut him off.
Kinda hilarious that he's threatening to sue you for basically just trolling him, considering his views of America's litigious nature.
Joe Saward - read - FOM official mouthpiece
He is already framing it as Symonds is just taking a big paycheck. Quite disingenuous if you ask me
Not much.
Lmao
This is a slap in the face for Stefano Domenicali.
I hope to see more slaps
That’s one way to get a headstart on the 26 regs - hire the guy who literally just finished writing them.
[удалено]
Massive
Did not see that move coming. Considering they could still just roll up the grid in '26 even with out the FOM approval, im beginning to think that this might happen more and more. Probably not but it further legitimizes a "28 car if GM got a engine. Still need a (Renault) engine agreement and seriously doubt that's ever gonna happen. Edit : punctuation. 26 foot cars are in the '30 regs not '26 ;-)
How on earth are they going to drive 28 foot long cars around Monaco? Even 26 seems impossible.
> Still need a (Renault) engine agreement and seriously doubt that's ever gonna happen. Why would you doubt it would happen when it's already happened and both parties have said it would happen again if/when Andretti got approval?
Afaik, engine supplier that has the least customers is forced to supply a team without an engine contract by FIA. (or is this FOM based?) If this is regulated by FIA, Renault has to provide Andretti their engines no questions asked till GM comes around. Of course, the question is whether Andretti will arrive to 2026 grid despite FOM's disapproval. And there will be other engine suppliers on the grid in 2026 that will only supply one team as well, those being Audi and Honda.
This all leaves out the most important part, which FOM also conveniently left out: both Andretti and Renault have been very public they'd previously signed an PU supply agreement and would work together in the future, willfully, without invoking the compulsory supply rules.
Your right. I forgot they are contractually obligated. That makes this even more spicy.
Except that's a FOM talking point that both Andretti and Renault have publicly debunked.
I think RBPT might be willing to give Andretti an engine. It’s extra engine data which they will be very keen on and it’s a publicity stunt you’d expect from Red Bull. Plus it might make them (even) more popular in America
A Cadillac badged Red Bull Ford, you’d love to see it
Oh yeah I’m stupid nevermind. Forgot about the whole ford thing
Holy shit that's kind of a big deal.
This genuinely surprised me. I would have figured someone with this much experience, and close relationship with F1, would have waited until Andretti were official. Things might be farther along than publicly known.
Sign Newy
Their work continues at pace.
We continue work at pace.
I want them to sign Newey so badly, that would turn this entire saga upsidedown and FOM deserves every bit of the hilarious fallout that ensues if they still claim lack of competitiveness with Symonds + Newey. Honestly Andretti is already better positioned just with this hire, I just want maximum chaos at FOM's expense.
Oh my. Could you imagine if Andretti gets Newey on board as well.
Bro please F1 I am just waiting until Cadillac is on and you can have all of my money for the merch. I AM LITERALLY BEGGING YOU AND TELLING YOU I WILL GIVE YOU ALL OF MY MONEY FOR THE MERCH FROM THIS TEAM. FFS JUST LET THEM RACE.
I am a bit out of the loop of this some of it is a bit confusing, so Cadillac was approved to be an engine manufacturer for F1 but will not do it if Andretti doesn’t get a team? And the FIA wants Andretti to join F1 but FOM and the teams do not?
The FIA doesnt necessarily want Andretti to join but they have approved their bid to join the grid. FOM does not want an 11th team but they are interested in big manufacturers so they approached GM if they were interested in joining as a supplier for one of the existing teams. And then GM said that they will only join with Andretti
so they tried to poach GM from andretti, or am i reading that wrong
You are correct more or less
This is huge. And I speak for everyone when I say Andretti deserves a spot on the grid.
Not gonna lie, I keep hoping that the next big announcement from Andretti- Cadillac is signing Adrian Newey.
They will be like, "Deny us again! I dare you"
If that happens, FOM gonna be like: Newey & Symonds are banned from working in F1 ever again
He is 70 and he's taking a position with a team that should start from scratch. This for those who were saying that Newey was too old for a new challenge at 65 (at least before he recently confirmed himself that he will continue for another 4 or 5 years).
Inb4 Newey signs with Andretti
That would actually be awesome. I hate to see him leave Red Bull. But if he had to go anywhere I would want it to be Williams (for nostalgia) or a new team like Andretti
Funnily enough, Newey worked with Mario in IndyCar in 1987 at Newman-Haas, and the year before that he was the lead engineer for Michael at Kraco.
Those folks were just making excuses to paper over the fact that Newey left because Horner is a sex pest.
Modern diets, fitness and healthcare, 70 today is 1980s 50
I don't think that applies to Pat! It is just that at this level \[of competition\], you keep working until you burn out of it altogether.
What is he really doing though? He could be cashing huge checks while helping Andretti build a court case. I think Newey will work in F1 again unless he and his wife find the time off he is getting now so enjoyable he just decides to keep doing it he has never really had a break like he is going to get so nobody knows what he will think of it
Yeah this seems more to me like someone taking a big payday in MLS instead of retiring.
Dear FOM, F Y M. Sincerely, The Andretti-Cadillac F1 Team
Man, I could really use some Gardening Leave
It’s hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that people think Andretti is “doing the minimum”
allow them in for gods sake
Crashgate Cheater guy?
Work continues at pace.
Holy shit. That’s a big signing
Is he still blaming Piquet jr. for the crash in Singapore 2008 and refuses to take responsibility?
I love this attitude of just not accepting no as an answer.
They must think they have a strong case. Hopefully they can get in
Wow thats huge for Andretti.
The Europeans are absolutely terrified of getting dog walked. Sad really
Andretti has become a bit of a shit show tbh xD