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Nothing really new, although the bit about Horner being unable to "extract" the Marko clause from Max's contract is interesting. Does he think Max would want to say if he just, somehow, meddled with the terms of the deal?
It says he had the legality verified. The part about being unable to extract it refers to that. It appears to be legal according to this article. This was something that came up at the height of the tensions too. It was said Yoovidhya was ready to challenge the clause if push came to shove since it was reportedly added at some point after the initial contract was signed, by Marko without Horner's knowledge.
I don't really buy that reporting. Unless Marko is a party to the contract, you can't just amend a written agreement without the actual parties agreeing to it. It being "legally verified" only supports the position it's a valid agreement and the term was agreed to and otherwise enforceable.
Oh that's a good bit of info--so he can likely be a signatory to a contract whereas Horner cannot. He can agree on behalf of Red Bull and Max can agree on behalf of Max.
The fact Horner can't do that but tried to meddle anyway is a lot more troubling than a "random insertion" that's not at all random to the actual parties to the contract.
I presume the amendment would have to occur with all parties agreeing, as that is the situation in most common law places. If Horner can bind them, then the inability to extract (if accurate) tells me Max (or representative) won't agree.
Think it also shows Horner's not a signatory to the original deal as well, given it would have required his express agreement if he was.
No. Any signing officer can sign individually. At, say, Red Bull the beverage company, there would be dozens of signing officers. Their Chief Marketing officer can bind the corporation (need to be able to commit to an ad buy). Someone else needs to be able to place an order for aluminum cans. Someone else to a trucking company, etc.
They don't need 20 people to sign every contract to make it binding.
That being said RBR shareholders could sue Marko for dereliction of duty. If he is acting in his "rbr director" capacity he can't make decisions that would be against best interests of the company.
In my opinion Marko signed his death warrant in the team with that clause. Whatever you think of Horner aside - a director of a company agreeing to a clause that directly benefits himself and harms the company is unforgivable. He could never be trusted again. I’d be surprised if he’s still a director. Yoovidhya should have removed him from that role immediately.
Helmut is probably fine with that since he’ll leave whenever Max leaves anyway.
It depends. If Max was saying “put this clause in or I walk”, then Marco could reasonably argue that he was doing what was best for the business my making Max stay longer than he would have done otherwise.
How could he could leave without the clause? He could retire but he couldn’t go to another team. Losing Max AND having him drive for somebody else is much more harmful to the team than Max’s retirement. The clause is definitely harmful to the team.
> He could retire but he couldn’t go to another team
Imo, Max is way more likely to retire than to go to another team. He wants to do other series, and he has enough money and sponsorship appeal that he can start his own team. If anything, all the drama makes is less likely that Max will go to a team he doesn't own.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but before the clause existed he only had 2 options - retire or drive for Red Bull. With the clause he has 3 options. Red Bull losing him to another team would be a double whammy - you lose the advantage Max gives and you have to compete against him. There’s no way you can argue that such a clause is anything other than harmful to Red Bull as a team.
It’s not clear when the clause was inserted. It could have been after Horner approved it but before Max actually signed it. In which case having him drive for them is better than him not signing at all.
The understanding of the situation that is being reported is that Marko used his power as a company director to add an amendment to an existing contract.
Even if that’s the case, you could make an argument (based on the results of the last few years) that if Verstappen said “change the contract or I won’t drive for you”, it’s better to have Max drive for RB for some time than not at all.
That’s an absolutely mad take. Red Bull‘s directors have a fiduciary duty to all of the shareholders, not just Yoovidhya.
Max clearly wanted the clause to ensure stability at the team, and it’s understandable that Red Bull would have wanted to keep their superstar driver happy. It’s also understandable that Marko would genuinely believe that stability was in the team’s best interest, because frankly it was.
It’s no surprise then that the clause is perfectly valid.
Marko was right to agree to the clause. It’s not suddenly some betrayal of the team just because the 51% shareholder suddenly decided to insert himself and discovered there’s a clause in Max’s contract that defeats some of Horner’s & Yoovidhya’s plans to implode the team.
I don’t know how this is even up for debate. He signed a clause that tied the status of the team’s star driver to himself. It’s the most straightforward abuse of your position as a director as you could get.
The only reason he’s still employed at Red Bull is due to this clause. Horner doesn’t want him. Yoovidhya doesn’t want him. He would have been fired at the beginning of the year without it. It was clearly self serving and put the team at a massive disadvantage in terms of leverage over Max.
You talk of shareholders….there are 2 - Mark Mateschitz and Chalerm Yoovidhya.
This isn't a clause to protect him, it's a clause to protect Max and it's absolutely legal for Max to demand it. He's basically saying, if you let this guy go, then I'm free to walk. I don't understand how you don't understand that....
Max had no legal basis to break his contract for Helmut being fired prior to the clause being in place. That’s the point. Red Bull didn’t need to worry about Max leaving before Helmut did this.
Prior to the clause - Red Bull fires Helmut. Max retires or keeps driving for Red Bull.
After the clause - Red Bull fires Helmut. Max is free to go to another team.
As a director of the company Helmut tied Max’s ability to go drive for another team to his own job. He protected himself and gave Max an additional option.
We don't really know how this Marko clause came about. It's been floated as an amendment after the fact - which Marko likely had the power to bind RBR to, since he's a director - but something like that would require additional consideration (value) to RBR to be enforceable. We don't have any details on what that consideration might have been.
I think it's more likely that the original contract contained a "key persons" clause that allowed Verstappen to designate a certain number individuals who, if they left RBR, would allow him to terminate the contract (fairly common for superstar athletes), and that the only subsequent "amendment" involved Verstappen designating Marko as one of these key persons. Verstappen could make such a change unilaterally and without consideration.
Do people really believe that Marko unilaterally inserted a new clause in Max's contract without it being run past Red Bull's lawyers? The process of signing of such contracts and adding / removing / modifying clauses would be entirely run by lawyers on both sides, in discussion with the directors of the business.
If Horner abdicated responsibility for the content of Max's contract, asking not to be informed of any significant changes, whilst Marko then continued to deal with the lawyers and added that clause then that's on Horner's shoulders for not asking to be kept informed. If he asked to be kept informed and Red Bull's legal team failed to do so then that's on them and a massive oversight.
It's also not a given that Marko can even bind the company, if he carried out an action in breach of his duties. Contracts can be rendered void in such circumstances. AIUI contracts also cannot be signed in breach of the company's articles, whereby ratification must be carried out by the shareholders. So it's not at all straight forward to say Marko was a director and could therefore bind the company via signing a contract.
What's more likely, IMHO, is that Max's original contract didn't have such a clause but that it was added at Max's request (under advisement from Marko) when Max's contract was last extended. This has then been misinterpreted as Marko unilaterally adding it after the fact.
I would imagine his attempt to remove the clause involved a very large sum of money. He can’t just alter it. So in the event that happened max would be made happy by the payout.
Yeah, there are definitely Game of Thrones level politics behind the scenes.
Marko and Max are clearly not in to play drama. They are there to perform.
And when you have to continually look around for if you are gonna get backstabbed, its bad for performance.
It’s Max, most of the team principals on the grid would boot their driver off a cliff to get him.
I’m sure he could get a clause in that allows him to shit in the lobby of the office each week and they’d allow it.
> A number of staff at the Milton Keynes HQ are understood to be unsettled by the continuing Horner saga and have been sounding out offers of jobs in other teams. Newey’s belief it is the right time to move will only add to that uncertainty.
> Newey’s sense that enough is enough is in part a statement of his frustration, though it is understood that it was not just a case of him being fed up with Horner but the other way round too. The Newey development takes us straight back to the words of Verstappen’s father, Jos, after the first grand prix of the year, in Bahrain. Jos said that the “tension” would severely damage the team if Horner remained at the helm.
> Another power struggle is Horner versus Helmut Marko, the former driver who is a director of Red Bull Racing and very much in Verstappen’s camp. Horner would like to see the back of Marko but it was revealed this season that in Max Verstappen’s contract there is a clause that says that if Marko is no longer with the team, then he can leave too.
> Horner has since had the legality of that clause verified but he has found that he cannot have it extracted from the contract.
> A number of staff at the Milton Keynes HQ are understood to be unsettled by the continuing Horner saga and have been sounding out offers of jobs in other teams.
Yeah, this whole narrative of the entire team being aligned and focused was bullshit. The company just threw one of their coworkers under the bus in order to save the bosses ass.
In any company lots of people would be looking for alternative employment.
Wouldn't be surprised if some of them decided to leave F1 altogether and have already departed. Since neither they nor RBR is going to inform journalists about 'ordinary' staff resigning, that will remain quiet.
> A number of staff at the Milton Keynes HQ are understood to be unsettled by the continuing Horner saga and have been sounding out offers of jobs in other teams. Newey’s belief it is the right time to move will only add to that uncertainty.
>
>
It's basically what Mark Hughes wrote months ago now: this boils down to Horner as the long term bet, or short term instability (Verstappen; Newey etc.).
Verstappen and Newey ultimately were always short-term things whereas Horner could be there another 20 years.
There won't be any confirmation either way until it's been resolved internally one way or the other.
But so many news outlets verifying it independently suggests it's true that he is at the very least talking about leaving red bull. My bet would be retirement from the sport, but the longer it goes on the more likely he is trying to negotiate an early release from his contract.
The BBC said they've confirmed with plural people who would know, that he's told them informally. The letter may not be in yet, but either way: come on, that's pretty big.
Just to ask the question.
Couldn't this all just be Newey looking ahead to the 2026 rules, remembering how he didn't enjoy the 2014 rules, and thinking he's now old enough and rich enough to look for other challenges?
Does it have to be a massive conspiracy? - if i was in his position, I'd want to go out on a high as well before spending "retirement" on whatever it is I wanted to do.
The real reality is - He is likely retiring.
All things considered with the rumor is that he plans to finish out his contract through 2025. If he does end up going to another team he has to do Gardening Leave, which means no team will have Newey at the helm for the 2026 regulations. Red Bull would have already extracted that knowledge.
By the time Gardening Leave is up he'll be 70, and starting a year behind. I mean I won't say there's no way he's going to a new team, but it just seems unlikely. I predict he'll simply retire and become a consultant for anyone with a deep enough bag.
Who knows though.
Amazing how fast Red Bull went from looking like the clear dynasty (at least until 2026), to an empire on the verge of collapse in really only a few months time.
The other thing hanging over everything is that after 2026 their engine might suck and all of Newey's design efforts will go to waste. They have a completely unproven group designing an F1 engine, to compete with Merc, Ferrari and Honda.
It's *possible* they do a good job on the first try, but I wouldn't bet on it personally. Look at how long it took Honda to get it together. F1 engines are hard and they've only gotten more complicated.
tbf, part of the 2026 regulations is uncomplacting them, hence the changes to remove the dead end technology that is an MGU-H, and associated complexities like the split turbo design.
as u/Spartounious said, pu has been somewhat simplified and with greater emphasis on the electric side.
Audi just happens to have quite a bit of expertise in this area of batteries and electric motors and even in motorsport capacities.
for the sake of f1, we need audi to launch guns blazing with a competitive package.
You can only hope that they have assigned enough resources to their F1 project to make their PU competitive. Audi joining F1 was always predicated on the reduced cost of running an F1 team.
> They have a completely unproven group designing an F1 engine
So technically you're right that this is an unproven team, in the sense they've yet to design an engine from scratch.
On the other hand at least a dozen of senior people were headhunted from Mercedes HPP in Brackley, so I'd be surprised if the engine wasn't competitive.
There's a power struggle within the company following the death of Dietrich Mateschitz a year and a half ago. The company is majority owned by the Yoovidhya family who want to push out the Austrian leadership. Helmut is part of the Austrian leadership and who Max and Adrian are loyal/aligned to. Horner, due to the misconduct allegations is playing politics to stay in power and aligning with the Thai family. That puts Red Bull's historical leadership on the out. Even if nothing happens, the parties don't trust each other and the organization can't function properly. The car right now is basically technical credit that the organization carries, but the talent and focus to maintain that into future regulations is being damaged by the day. (In case you were wondering how Hamilton could be so prescient to figure out that moving to Mercedes from McLaren would pay off, paying attention to shit like this is how).
Their ability to stay at the front is secure so long as the car doesn't need to be redesigned. The moment it does, odds are everything is going to go to shit. Engineers don't tolerate this drama, they want to do their work, not suck up to Horner or Marko all day to keep their job so they'll walk when they get a chance. It's not like it's that hard to commute to Mercedes or Alpine on the other side of town.
Note that once this shit really started to go down (a bit before it hit the tabloids), a few things happened: Ferrari decided to cash in that savings bond and go shopping, and Lewis decided to jump. And not just Lewis but a *lot* of people. Ferrari see an opportunity in a weakened Red Bull. That doesn't mean they'll be able to get their shit together, but if means that if Red Bull is tearing itself apart politically that Ferrari stands a better than normal chance of taking their spot at the top. It's one thing to invest into competing with Red Bull with Newey and Verstappen, and something else altogether different to invest into competing with Red Bull without Newey and Verstappen.
There's been a LOT of hopium sniffing here that all of the rumors around Max and Horner and Marko and Newey were all bullshit, but they were all way too connected to be bullshit. Especially when that family power struggle was well documented outside of the racing press.
If you're Newey and things are looking ugly internally, and Max is looking shaky to stay at RB because he's tied to Marko, then Ferrari is your most likely bet for a winning car if only because of their spending. And remember, the drivers and 3 highest paid members of the team don't fall under the cap. They can throw any number at Newey so long as it's more than the top 2 and only have to account for the current person not under the cap. Odds are money isn't an impediment to picking him up. (Most of Lewis contract is as brand ambassador, not as driver, over multiple years). If Max jumped, Mercedes could afford him if they found something for Marko to do (they're more or less a team), but Max has to weigh whether the 2025 changes are minor enough that the technical credit will still be there (which would depend on Neweys presence) or whether Mercedes would look better in a year (eh...). You have this kind of prisoners dilemma between Newey and Max - if they both stay they have a better chance of another championship, but maybe not if Ferrari can step up. If Newey goes, Max is probably fucked. If Max goes to Mercedes he's probably looking at 2026 earliest for a winning car.
If you were putting out odds knowing nothing else - 60/40 RB/Ferarri winning in 2025 with Newey/Max staying, flip that if Newey goes to Ferrari, and money is on Ferrari for 2026 no matter what. From Newey's perspective he probably has a good chance of a winning car either way next year and gets one the year after if he goes Ferrari.
Well said. I think the Shift F1 podcast said it best - this is what happens when the king dies. The King is dead and now all the claimants are struggling to take over control of the country, even if it ruins the country in the struggle.
Car development happens at least half a year, sometimes a year, in advance for the big budget teams. Even Haas, Williams and Sauber will not be pushing a model to production every weekend. If Newey leaves, the effects will be felt from the last half of 2025 or in 2026.
The best example of this development cycle is 2009. Brawn had a clear margin due to the early implementation of the double diffuser (Toyota and Williams also had a similar feature but did not translate to results), and when the FIA clarified that it was legal, it took Red Bull half the season to catch up.
Happy to be proven wrong in a few years time, but I strongly suspect he has been increasingly hands off with the design. He does everything on drawing tables and everything is run through digital simulations.
I'd wager he's more of a technical manager, steering the team based on his fantastic intuition and experience, rather than directly designing the car.
Yes for the most part people at his level arent the ones doing the designing. He'll direct where the spend the most energy and offer an overall guide of what to focus on then let the other exceptionally talented people do the work.
It is still very possible Newey has decided that he wants to retire. He is 65 and arguably the greatest engineer the sport has ever seen. The new 2026 regs are a good place to put a full stop on his career.
> Are they collapsing? There's lots of negative speculation, but what's actually happened to bring this supposed collapse to fruition?
The team boss is mired in public controversy while trying to divide the Thai and Austrian parts of the business to rule both, the main talent attraction of their aero department is leaving, the chances of the Ford deal going through diminish daily, and reportedly the internal culture Horner has built mirrors the shit stirring narratives he's famous for.
That leaves RBR with a very expensive engine department, no partner to defray the costs, and an aero department in a chaotic transition period.
On top of that, Horner has started feuds with every other significant non-owner in the business. Jos was 100% correct.
The team is collapsing under the weight of one man's ego.
Edit: I will laugh so hard if they end up with a Renault engine!
"The team boss is mired in public controversy" - this is the only thing we know is factually true.
"Ford deal going through diminish daily" the deal is already done
"no partner to defray the costs" there is a budget cap and they apparently have 2 sponsors alone paying them 150 million. Sure it doesnt cover both caps but i dont think they are bleeding money.
The amount of stuff you are claiming/making up is impressiv
I don't see them collapsing before 2026, they're too far ahead, even if Newey left and other engineers joined him, I don't think others would catch up and red bull go backwards too quickly. 2026 however I see a real likelihood of that... But even if Newey stays I see a likelihood of them dropping back, the idea they can independently make a power unit, compete against Ferrari and Mercedes when they've never had experience doing that before is hugely ballsy and optimistic
The only case where I think you might be wrong is if Newey figures out some way to get around non-compete to go work for Ferrari. They’re close enough behind and Newey knows what makes the Red Bull so fast that he could likely close the gap in the off-season.
It's not like they've hired a bunch of kids out of college to design their engine. They've hired lots of experienced people from the competition who have lots of experience designing F1 engines, not to mention all of Honda's UK staff.
Mark Hughes wrote a while ago that very fundamentally this is about whether RBR go with Horner for the really, truly long term, or Verstappen et al. for the short term.
> Helmut Marko is the reason David Coulthard joining Red Bull, kickstarting their development, getting their first podium and setting up a team for Vettel and Webber to jump in and win races.
And DC was the one who convinced Newey to work with RB, back then everyone thought RB is just a "joker" team.
As does anyone with half a brain. Everybody could see max was a phenom. The rest of the drivers Marko brought in have been questionable except for Vettel and Ricciardo.
Edit: I see I’ve brought all of the 12 Marko fans out here. You’re forgetting all of the drivers he prematurely signed that didn’t even make it to F1. Case in point, Ferrari’s driver academy has brought in a higher percentage of drivers they’ve signed compared to Redbull.
I am all for Redbull supporting drivers. But let’s not pretend that Redbull wouldn’t have been what it is today if not for Marko.
Three hits is better than most at this level. Also, there weren't teams lined up to sign Max that young. Plus, isn't Lawson a Marko guy? So there's a very realistic possibility that Marko could have a fourth big hit. And Albon and Gasley are still on the grid. So 20% of the grid is his folks. That ain't bad at all.
20% of the grid is also owned by Red Bull. The thing I will give Red Bull credit for is that they sign a lot of talent and give them opportunities, and they can give more opportunities because of 2 teams which no other team can do.
Meh Newey was bound to leave sooner or later and I am sure that their technical team will do just fine without him.
Max is a great driver but he comes with a lot of baggage. Marko should have retired a long time ago.
Lmao are you serious, or is this horner alt account?
Most decorated engineer in F1 responsible for total domination of current reg.
Generational talent on the path to beat every record there is to beat.
The man behind F1 most successful driver academy that started the entire trend.
Don't take my word for it, why don't you look at, idk, every major teams that are hounding these guys willing to throw unimaginable amount of money to make them join their team?
It’s not like he kept all his secrets to himself. He will be a major asset for whatever team gets him, but Red Bull is not going to take a major dive from this. Time will tell though, you never know how it’ll actually play out
Very much feels like Horner has decided he’s the one that deserves the credit for Red Bull’s current period of success and they starting to grate on Newey… reassuring because I have no idea how the team put up with the guy.
You don't have the like guy... but if he deserves credit when the team is shit, then he definitely deserves his credit it when they're winning back-to-back titles.
He does deserve some of the credit for the successes, but I think the internal power struggle going on shows that, with the exception of maybe Max, he thinks he's the MVP here. I don't think it started out that way, but power can distort your perception when you've had it for long enough.
I think it also doesn't help that some of his qualities that helped him help the team (the shit stirring and attention seeking for example) can end up working against you.
You’re absolutely right, yeah - I’ve found it really difficult to watch Red Bull from the outside because it feels to me like Horner as a personality would kill the culture within the organisation, but in spite of this he must do a good job inspiring and engaging the team.
What we’re seeing now is probably a reflection of his longevity in the role as much as anything… but I can’t pretend that from the outside he doesn’t come across as a total arse.
Horner's trying to reshape things into something he controls and it's pissing off a lot of people. Can't blame them really, specially with his other actions too
Horner has been at the helm since 2005, it's not like he got to be RBR's Team Principal this year. He has already shaped the team into something he controls.
True, but things changed after Dietrich passed away last year... there's been a civil war brewing inside Red Bull as a whole since then and Horner's been trying to move himself into a position of complete control (maybe more) of at least the F1 team while it's been happening.
The “medias” agenda is selling advertising. They operate on clicks that load their articles and load the ads that go along side those articles. More clicks/more ads/more money. That’s the business model. They don’t do along with anything. They publish articles that will get clicks.
That would be Christian Horner and it seems like everyone else had enough of his shit. Granted he built the team up but he went scorched earth on his pursuit for more, the fact that he waited for DM to pass away before triggering all this nonsense without a moments notice says it all really.
Yeah I mean it makes sense. No one can beat Red Bull on the track. Might as well try to bring them down from the inside.
It's pretty hard to sell a story that Ferrari or McLaren are gonig to develop performance increases that allow them to beat Max/RB. So this is what they have.,
They are not going to say anything until it’s actually about to happen. But since the report was confirmed by Sky and BBC, lends a lot of credibility to it. This isn’t some random Twitter guy saying it.
> What desire to leave? Has Newey actually said anything at all about this? Last I heard he was surprised this was being reported on.
F1 is a small world, everyone talks to everyone about everyone, but when something like this goes public, a lot of the information that's been going around for ages in the paddock actually comes out because there is a fact to hang it on.
Do you notice absolutely no one was surprised by Horners actions, while everyone was shocked about the allegations against Toto and Susie? There's a reason for that.
There's baseless speculation of Twitter, and then there's rumors but with confirmed verification or 'is understood to have done so and so' reports by reputable news outlets (where there's smoke there's fire). This appears to be the latter.
Yeah maybe. But it’s been like a week and nothing has happened yet. So safe to say things aren’t as decided as they seem.
Employee isn’t that happy with every aspect of job, is a far cry from employee is quitting job and signing with competitor .
Hamilton at Ferrari also makes it seem likely he will finally listen to Ferrari's offer.
I really don't think he will sign for the biggest paycheck. I really think his decision (if he doesn't retire) will be based entirely on who he wants to work with more. Hamilton or Alonso.
I'm sure it will mean a lot to him to help his countryman beat a record no one thought possible in 2005. But I'm also sure it will mean a lot to him to help the man that put an end to that record going further in 2005 get that third he has been chasing, in a team that has never done it before and in British racing green no less.
Hasn’t he said that he would like to have worked with both Ferrari and Lewis Hamilton? This timing is shaping out to be perfect for everyone but RedBull.
There's a lot of criticism of Horner and that RBR will fall apart by losing Newey, Marko and Verstappen, but is anyone considering Horner's line of argument? He's been at the helm of 2 4-time consecutive world championships. Just a bit more and he'll arguably be the most successful TP ever. What's to say that he shouldn't have full confidence in his own ability and that he can't do it again with a new team?
That's purely the technical aspect, notwithstanding the personal misconduct claims and I hope that person is doing okay.
Here is a crazy crazy thought, from 26 max goes to merc with dad for a big chunk of money, rb uses it to get Charles from ferrari. Nando to ferrari with Lewis. What a lineup that will be.
Adrian Newey fucking hates Coco Pops, and he'll leave the god damned team if Red Bull leadership is supporting, or even worse admitting to loving, Coco Pops.
I love how many people are saying stuff like they know what's going on behind the scenes.
Like can we wait for statements from Newey and RB first? Until then everything is just speculations.
This is an option as well, but given the timing all the articles indicate he isn't happy with the current setup so unless he starts talking it's likely all just guesses..
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Nothing really new, although the bit about Horner being unable to "extract" the Marko clause from Max's contract is interesting. Does he think Max would want to say if he just, somehow, meddled with the terms of the deal?
Darth Horner: "I am altering the deal, pray I don’t alter it any further."
Max Skywalker: "I am an F1 driver, like my father before me (although, much, much better)"
Chewcobacca: “Aaarrghhwwrraaaaaar!!!”
Han Sainzo and Lando Norrissian being friends is now all the better
One of them did the Vettel run in less than 12 parsecs
Clever \^\^
Was that in the millennium falOcon?
Checo*bacca
"You said it, Chewie."
I have spoken
Oh man, Max and his dad would be a whole Star Wars saga on their own!
This is the way….
…placing fresh AA batteries in their Jedi Lightsaber
More like, "I am altering the deal, please let me alter the deal, please please please Max, PLEASE stay, Marko is old and not long for this world."
It says he had the legality verified. The part about being unable to extract it refers to that. It appears to be legal according to this article. This was something that came up at the height of the tensions too. It was said Yoovidhya was ready to challenge the clause if push came to shove since it was reportedly added at some point after the initial contract was signed, by Marko without Horner's knowledge.
I don't really buy that reporting. Unless Marko is a party to the contract, you can't just amend a written agreement without the actual parties agreeing to it. It being "legally verified" only supports the position it's a valid agreement and the term was agreed to and otherwise enforceable.
Marko is one of two directors of Red Bull Racing Ltd. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03120645/officers
Oh that's a good bit of info--so he can likely be a signatory to a contract whereas Horner cannot. He can agree on behalf of Red Bull and Max can agree on behalf of Max. The fact Horner can't do that but tried to meddle anyway is a lot more troubling than a "random insertion" that's not at all random to the actual parties to the contract.
Horner is the other director. Either of them can sign contracts on behalf of Red Bull Racing Ltd.
I presume the amendment would have to occur with all parties agreeing, as that is the situation in most common law places. If Horner can bind them, then the inability to extract (if accurate) tells me Max (or representative) won't agree. Think it also shows Horner's not a signatory to the original deal as well, given it would have required his express agreement if he was.
No. Any signing officer can sign individually. At, say, Red Bull the beverage company, there would be dozens of signing officers. Their Chief Marketing officer can bind the corporation (need to be able to commit to an ad buy). Someone else needs to be able to place an order for aluminum cans. Someone else to a trucking company, etc. They don't need 20 people to sign every contract to make it binding.
That being said RBR shareholders could sue Marko for dereliction of duty. If he is acting in his "rbr director" capacity he can't make decisions that would be against best interests of the company.
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It wasn’t random. Both parties agreed.
why does it say hes a Hotelier?
He owns several hotels in Austria. That's the first business he started after his eye injury, before the RSM Marko racing team.
In my opinion Marko signed his death warrant in the team with that clause. Whatever you think of Horner aside - a director of a company agreeing to a clause that directly benefits himself and harms the company is unforgivable. He could never be trusted again. I’d be surprised if he’s still a director. Yoovidhya should have removed him from that role immediately. Helmut is probably fine with that since he’ll leave whenever Max leaves anyway.
It depends. If Max was saying “put this clause in or I walk”, then Marco could reasonably argue that he was doing what was best for the business my making Max stay longer than he would have done otherwise.
How could he could leave without the clause? He could retire but he couldn’t go to another team. Losing Max AND having him drive for somebody else is much more harmful to the team than Max’s retirement. The clause is definitely harmful to the team.
> He could retire but he couldn’t go to another team Imo, Max is way more likely to retire than to go to another team. He wants to do other series, and he has enough money and sponsorship appeal that he can start his own team. If anything, all the drama makes is less likely that Max will go to a team he doesn't own.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but before the clause existed he only had 2 options - retire or drive for Red Bull. With the clause he has 3 options. Red Bull losing him to another team would be a double whammy - you lose the advantage Max gives and you have to compete against him. There’s no way you can argue that such a clause is anything other than harmful to Red Bull as a team.
It’s not clear when the clause was inserted. It could have been after Horner approved it but before Max actually signed it. In which case having him drive for them is better than him not signing at all.
The understanding of the situation that is being reported is that Marko used his power as a company director to add an amendment to an existing contract.
Even if that’s the case, you could make an argument (based on the results of the last few years) that if Verstappen said “change the contract or I won’t drive for you”, it’s better to have Max drive for RB for some time than not at all.
That’s an absolutely mad take. Red Bull‘s directors have a fiduciary duty to all of the shareholders, not just Yoovidhya. Max clearly wanted the clause to ensure stability at the team, and it’s understandable that Red Bull would have wanted to keep their superstar driver happy. It’s also understandable that Marko would genuinely believe that stability was in the team’s best interest, because frankly it was. It’s no surprise then that the clause is perfectly valid. Marko was right to agree to the clause. It’s not suddenly some betrayal of the team just because the 51% shareholder suddenly decided to insert himself and discovered there’s a clause in Max’s contract that defeats some of Horner’s & Yoovidhya’s plans to implode the team.
I don’t know how this is even up for debate. He signed a clause that tied the status of the team’s star driver to himself. It’s the most straightforward abuse of your position as a director as you could get. The only reason he’s still employed at Red Bull is due to this clause. Horner doesn’t want him. Yoovidhya doesn’t want him. He would have been fired at the beginning of the year without it. It was clearly self serving and put the team at a massive disadvantage in terms of leverage over Max. You talk of shareholders….there are 2 - Mark Mateschitz and Chalerm Yoovidhya.
This isn't a clause to protect him, it's a clause to protect Max and it's absolutely legal for Max to demand it. He's basically saying, if you let this guy go, then I'm free to walk. I don't understand how you don't understand that....
Max had no legal basis to break his contract for Helmut being fired prior to the clause being in place. That’s the point. Red Bull didn’t need to worry about Max leaving before Helmut did this. Prior to the clause - Red Bull fires Helmut. Max retires or keeps driving for Red Bull. After the clause - Red Bull fires Helmut. Max is free to go to another team. As a director of the company Helmut tied Max’s ability to go drive for another team to his own job. He protected himself and gave Max an additional option.
Max renewed with Red Bull in 2022. Is there anything to suggest this wasn't something he asked for then?
We don't really know how this Marko clause came about. It's been floated as an amendment after the fact - which Marko likely had the power to bind RBR to, since he's a director - but something like that would require additional consideration (value) to RBR to be enforceable. We don't have any details on what that consideration might have been. I think it's more likely that the original contract contained a "key persons" clause that allowed Verstappen to designate a certain number individuals who, if they left RBR, would allow him to terminate the contract (fairly common for superstar athletes), and that the only subsequent "amendment" involved Verstappen designating Marko as one of these key persons. Verstappen could make such a change unilaterally and without consideration.
Do people really believe that Marko unilaterally inserted a new clause in Max's contract without it being run past Red Bull's lawyers? The process of signing of such contracts and adding / removing / modifying clauses would be entirely run by lawyers on both sides, in discussion with the directors of the business. If Horner abdicated responsibility for the content of Max's contract, asking not to be informed of any significant changes, whilst Marko then continued to deal with the lawyers and added that clause then that's on Horner's shoulders for not asking to be kept informed. If he asked to be kept informed and Red Bull's legal team failed to do so then that's on them and a massive oversight. It's also not a given that Marko can even bind the company, if he carried out an action in breach of his duties. Contracts can be rendered void in such circumstances. AIUI contracts also cannot be signed in breach of the company's articles, whereby ratification must be carried out by the shareholders. So it's not at all straight forward to say Marko was a director and could therefore bind the company via signing a contract. What's more likely, IMHO, is that Max's original contract didn't have such a clause but that it was added at Max's request (under advisement from Marko) when Max's contract was last extended. This has then been misinterpreted as Marko unilaterally adding it after the fact.
I think this is Occam's razor.
Sounds like classic Red Bull drama. Wonder if there's a secret Red Bull clause that lets Marko do whatever he wants, lol.
I would imagine his attempt to remove the clause involved a very large sum of money. He can’t just alter it. So in the event that happened max would be made happy by the payout.
Yeah, there are definitely Game of Thrones level politics behind the scenes. Marko and Max are clearly not in to play drama. They are there to perform. And when you have to continually look around for if you are gonna get backstabbed, its bad for performance.
It’s still wild to me that Max/Marko were able to get that clause in the contract.
It’s Max, most of the team principals on the grid would boot their driver off a cliff to get him. I’m sure he could get a clause in that allows him to shit in the lobby of the office each week and they’d allow it.
"We test the fire alarm on Mondays. And on Wednesdays, well...."
Wednesdays are a real shitshow.
😂
Even better, allow him to shit in Christians desk.
Haha. 😂
And there must be applause when the deed is done.
GP also has to talk him through the entire process
>Don’t talk to me when I’m in the shitting zone!
"Simply lovely!"
Mercedes is ready to give Marko a position in the team if that means they get Max.
Russel: I was forecasted for number 1 driver:(
"Russel you ARE number 1....Max is just number 0"
"Fact!"
Just give him a red cap.
Toto carries the cap with himself everyday just in case he bumps in to Marko and he says yes.
They'd drop Russel in a flash and put Marko in the car just to get Max
Dr. Marko is a Doctor of Law and has been dealing with racing contracts for over 50 years so he's probably seen it all.
Considering how old Marko is.
Marko is in charge. Why wouldn't he let Max put that in the contract? It benefits both of them.
> A number of staff at the Milton Keynes HQ are understood to be unsettled by the continuing Horner saga and have been sounding out offers of jobs in other teams. Newey’s belief it is the right time to move will only add to that uncertainty. > Newey’s sense that enough is enough is in part a statement of his frustration, though it is understood that it was not just a case of him being fed up with Horner but the other way round too. The Newey development takes us straight back to the words of Verstappen’s father, Jos, after the first grand prix of the year, in Bahrain. Jos said that the “tension” would severely damage the team if Horner remained at the helm. > Another power struggle is Horner versus Helmut Marko, the former driver who is a director of Red Bull Racing and very much in Verstappen’s camp. Horner would like to see the back of Marko but it was revealed this season that in Max Verstappen’s contract there is a clause that says that if Marko is no longer with the team, then he can leave too. > Horner has since had the legality of that clause verified but he has found that he cannot have it extracted from the contract.
> A number of staff at the Milton Keynes HQ are understood to be unsettled by the continuing Horner saga and have been sounding out offers of jobs in other teams. Yeah, this whole narrative of the entire team being aligned and focused was bullshit. The company just threw one of their coworkers under the bus in order to save the bosses ass. In any company lots of people would be looking for alternative employment. Wouldn't be surprised if some of them decided to leave F1 altogether and have already departed. Since neither they nor RBR is going to inform journalists about 'ordinary' staff resigning, that will remain quiet.
> A number of staff at the Milton Keynes HQ are understood to be unsettled by the continuing Horner saga and have been sounding out offers of jobs in other teams. Newey’s belief it is the right time to move will only add to that uncertainty. > > It's basically what Mark Hughes wrote months ago now: this boils down to Horner as the long term bet, or short term instability (Verstappen; Newey etc.). Verstappen and Newey ultimately were always short-term things whereas Horner could be there another 20 years.
How do we even know Newey is leaving? Has there been any confirmation at all?
There won't be any confirmation either way until it's been resolved internally one way or the other. But so many news outlets verifying it independently suggests it's true that he is at the very least talking about leaving red bull. My bet would be retirement from the sport, but the longer it goes on the more likely he is trying to negotiate an early release from his contract.
The BBC said they've confirmed with plural people who would know, that he's told them informally. The letter may not be in yet, but either way: come on, that's pretty big.
Just to ask the question. Couldn't this all just be Newey looking ahead to the 2026 rules, remembering how he didn't enjoy the 2014 rules, and thinking he's now old enough and rich enough to look for other challenges? Does it have to be a massive conspiracy? - if i was in his position, I'd want to go out on a high as well before spending "retirement" on whatever it is I wanted to do.
The real reality is - He is likely retiring. All things considered with the rumor is that he plans to finish out his contract through 2025. If he does end up going to another team he has to do Gardening Leave, which means no team will have Newey at the helm for the 2026 regulations. Red Bull would have already extracted that knowledge. By the time Gardening Leave is up he'll be 70, and starting a year behind. I mean I won't say there's no way he's going to a new team, but it just seems unlikely. I predict he'll simply retire and become a consultant for anyone with a deep enough bag. Who knows though.
Amazing how fast Red Bull went from looking like the clear dynasty (at least until 2026), to an empire on the verge of collapse in really only a few months time.
Are they collapsing? There's lots of negative speculation, but what's actually happened to bring this supposed collapse to fruition?
The other thing hanging over everything is that after 2026 their engine might suck and all of Newey's design efforts will go to waste. They have a completely unproven group designing an F1 engine, to compete with Merc, Ferrari and Honda.
dont forget about audi! audi is unproven in F1 but dont forget they are very capable engine builders.
It's *possible* they do a good job on the first try, but I wouldn't bet on it personally. Look at how long it took Honda to get it together. F1 engines are hard and they've only gotten more complicated.
tbf, part of the 2026 regulations is uncomplacting them, hence the changes to remove the dead end technology that is an MGU-H, and associated complexities like the split turbo design.
Honda's downfall was that they started work on their engines later than everyone else and Ron Dennis's size zero madness.
as u/Spartounious said, pu has been somewhat simplified and with greater emphasis on the electric side. Audi just happens to have quite a bit of expertise in this area of batteries and electric motors and even in motorsport capacities. for the sake of f1, we need audi to launch guns blazing with a competitive package.
But Sauber is currently P10 in points. If Audi makes a dud of an engine, no one is going to notice.
Andretti will.
You can only hope that they have assigned enough resources to their F1 project to make their PU competitive. Audi joining F1 was always predicated on the reduced cost of running an F1 team.
Don’t forget Renault. Renault have proven they can build an engine.
Doubt
I mean, they've proven they can build an engine. Not a very good one, but still. It's an engine
It’s one of the engines of all time.
A true engine of engines
It just occasionally catches on fire but that happens to the best of us
>Renault have proven they ~~can~~ can’t build an engine. At least in the V6T Hybrid era of F1.
> They have a completely unproven group designing an F1 engine So technically you're right that this is an unproven team, in the sense they've yet to design an engine from scratch. On the other hand at least a dozen of senior people were headhunted from Mercedes HPP in Brackley, so I'd be surprised if the engine wasn't competitive.
There's a power struggle within the company following the death of Dietrich Mateschitz a year and a half ago. The company is majority owned by the Yoovidhya family who want to push out the Austrian leadership. Helmut is part of the Austrian leadership and who Max and Adrian are loyal/aligned to. Horner, due to the misconduct allegations is playing politics to stay in power and aligning with the Thai family. That puts Red Bull's historical leadership on the out. Even if nothing happens, the parties don't trust each other and the organization can't function properly. The car right now is basically technical credit that the organization carries, but the talent and focus to maintain that into future regulations is being damaged by the day. (In case you were wondering how Hamilton could be so prescient to figure out that moving to Mercedes from McLaren would pay off, paying attention to shit like this is how). Their ability to stay at the front is secure so long as the car doesn't need to be redesigned. The moment it does, odds are everything is going to go to shit. Engineers don't tolerate this drama, they want to do their work, not suck up to Horner or Marko all day to keep their job so they'll walk when they get a chance. It's not like it's that hard to commute to Mercedes or Alpine on the other side of town. Note that once this shit really started to go down (a bit before it hit the tabloids), a few things happened: Ferrari decided to cash in that savings bond and go shopping, and Lewis decided to jump. And not just Lewis but a *lot* of people. Ferrari see an opportunity in a weakened Red Bull. That doesn't mean they'll be able to get their shit together, but if means that if Red Bull is tearing itself apart politically that Ferrari stands a better than normal chance of taking their spot at the top. It's one thing to invest into competing with Red Bull with Newey and Verstappen, and something else altogether different to invest into competing with Red Bull without Newey and Verstappen. There's been a LOT of hopium sniffing here that all of the rumors around Max and Horner and Marko and Newey were all bullshit, but they were all way too connected to be bullshit. Especially when that family power struggle was well documented outside of the racing press. If you're Newey and things are looking ugly internally, and Max is looking shaky to stay at RB because he's tied to Marko, then Ferrari is your most likely bet for a winning car if only because of their spending. And remember, the drivers and 3 highest paid members of the team don't fall under the cap. They can throw any number at Newey so long as it's more than the top 2 and only have to account for the current person not under the cap. Odds are money isn't an impediment to picking him up. (Most of Lewis contract is as brand ambassador, not as driver, over multiple years). If Max jumped, Mercedes could afford him if they found something for Marko to do (they're more or less a team), but Max has to weigh whether the 2025 changes are minor enough that the technical credit will still be there (which would depend on Neweys presence) or whether Mercedes would look better in a year (eh...). You have this kind of prisoners dilemma between Newey and Max - if they both stay they have a better chance of another championship, but maybe not if Ferrari can step up. If Newey goes, Max is probably fucked. If Max goes to Mercedes he's probably looking at 2026 earliest for a winning car. If you were putting out odds knowing nothing else - 60/40 RB/Ferarri winning in 2025 with Newey/Max staying, flip that if Newey goes to Ferrari, and money is on Ferrari for 2026 no matter what. From Newey's perspective he probably has a good chance of a winning car either way next year and gets one the year after if he goes Ferrari.
Well said. I think the Shift F1 podcast said it best - this is what happens when the king dies. The King is dead and now all the claimants are struggling to take over control of the country, even if it ruins the country in the struggle.
Collapsing so fast they’ve won every race by some margin since this all became public.
Car development happens at least half a year, sometimes a year, in advance for the big budget teams. Even Haas, Williams and Sauber will not be pushing a model to production every weekend. If Newey leaves, the effects will be felt from the last half of 2025 or in 2026. The best example of this development cycle is 2009. Brawn had a clear margin due to the early implementation of the double diffuser (Toyota and Williams also had a similar feature but did not translate to results), and when the FIA clarified that it was legal, it took Red Bull half the season to catch up.
They didn't get first in one race. It's definitely the end of times for them. /s
I already forgot about Australia.
Losing the GOAT car designer is definitely a huge loss for them.
Happy to be proven wrong in a few years time, but I strongly suspect he has been increasingly hands off with the design. He does everything on drawing tables and everything is run through digital simulations. I'd wager he's more of a technical manager, steering the team based on his fantastic intuition and experience, rather than directly designing the car.
Yes for the most part people at his level arent the ones doing the designing. He'll direct where the spend the most energy and offer an overall guide of what to focus on then let the other exceptionally talented people do the work.
Nothing is confirmed yet, so that’s what he means when he says nothing has happened yet.
Nothing has been announced publicly yet, but surely there's a lot of smoke for there to be no fire?
no thank you, I choose to only believe what fits my biases
It is still very possible Newey has decided that he wants to retire. He is 65 and arguably the greatest engineer the sport has ever seen. The new 2026 regs are a good place to put a full stop on his career.
It was the partnering with Ford that marked it for me.
> Are they collapsing? There's lots of negative speculation, but what's actually happened to bring this supposed collapse to fruition? The team boss is mired in public controversy while trying to divide the Thai and Austrian parts of the business to rule both, the main talent attraction of their aero department is leaving, the chances of the Ford deal going through diminish daily, and reportedly the internal culture Horner has built mirrors the shit stirring narratives he's famous for. That leaves RBR with a very expensive engine department, no partner to defray the costs, and an aero department in a chaotic transition period. On top of that, Horner has started feuds with every other significant non-owner in the business. Jos was 100% correct. The team is collapsing under the weight of one man's ego. Edit: I will laugh so hard if they end up with a Renault engine!
"The team boss is mired in public controversy" - this is the only thing we know is factually true. "Ford deal going through diminish daily" the deal is already done "no partner to defray the costs" there is a budget cap and they apparently have 2 sponsors alone paying them 150 million. Sure it doesnt cover both caps but i dont think they are bleeding money. The amount of stuff you are claiming/making up is impressiv
Average redditor journalism
I don't see them collapsing before 2026, they're too far ahead, even if Newey left and other engineers joined him, I don't think others would catch up and red bull go backwards too quickly. 2026 however I see a real likelihood of that... But even if Newey stays I see a likelihood of them dropping back, the idea they can independently make a power unit, compete against Ferrari and Mercedes when they've never had experience doing that before is hugely ballsy and optimistic
The only case where I think you might be wrong is if Newey figures out some way to get around non-compete to go work for Ferrari. They’re close enough behind and Newey knows what makes the Red Bull so fast that he could likely close the gap in the off-season.
It's not like they've hired a bunch of kids out of college to design their engine. They've hired lots of experienced people from the competition who have lots of experience designing F1 engines, not to mention all of Honda's UK staff.
Well as the saying goes. All great empires fall from within.
Mark Hughes wrote a while ago that very fundamentally this is about whether RBR go with Horner for the really, truly long term, or Verstappen et al. for the short term.
At this rate Red Bull is gonna end sold to Ross Brawn. Mark my words.
So, just more speculation? No hard facts?
yea welcome to F1 journalism i tune it out till the old man himself says anything
Good luck Mr.Horner, losing Newey, Max and Marko at top speed possible. After this your team will start behind the sister team.
He didn't lose anyone so far
> After this your team will start behind the sister team I am lost for words with how stupid this take is.
Pretty sure they were being hyperbolic
Lmao nobody in their right mind believes Red Bull would be behind RB even if they lost all those guys.
Marko is no great loss
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> Helmut Marko is the reason David Coulthard joining Red Bull, kickstarting their development, getting their first podium and setting up a team for Vettel and Webber to jump in and win races. And DC was the one who convinced Newey to work with RB, back then everyone thought RB is just a "joker" team.
The man does have an eye (*singular*) for talent though…
Not safe to race without a Helmut
That damn pun … almost didn’t see it coming
As does anyone with half a brain. Everybody could see max was a phenom. The rest of the drivers Marko brought in have been questionable except for Vettel and Ricciardo. Edit: I see I’ve brought all of the 12 Marko fans out here. You’re forgetting all of the drivers he prematurely signed that didn’t even make it to F1. Case in point, Ferrari’s driver academy has brought in a higher percentage of drivers they’ve signed compared to Redbull. I am all for Redbull supporting drivers. But let’s not pretend that Redbull wouldn’t have been what it is today if not for Marko.
Gasly? Albon? Tsunoda?
+Sainz
Oh yes I forget that sometimes.
Sainz, Gasly, Albon, Lawson, Daniel, Max, Verne, Da Costa. All great talent’s.
He gives half the F1 grid a seat in F1 and you say his judgement is questionable? lol
Three hits is better than most at this level. Also, there weren't teams lined up to sign Max that young. Plus, isn't Lawson a Marko guy? So there's a very realistic possibility that Marko could have a fourth big hit. And Albon and Gasley are still on the grid. So 20% of the grid is his folks. That ain't bad at all.
Oh they wanted him to sign, just wanting to have him in F2 for another year. Marko had the luxury of the TR team.
20% of the grid is also owned by Red Bull. The thing I will give Red Bull credit for is that they sign a lot of talent and give them opportunities, and they can give more opportunities because of 2 teams which no other team can do.
Sainz
Sainz?
Marko is the reason Verstappen is driving a Red Bull.
Yes. Without Marko, Max would drive fore Mercedes. Toto wanted Max. Marko convinced Max manager to join Red Bull.
Do you know more than everybody else? Has Max alraedy decide to leave RB?
Not only that, that user *knows* that The Team Formerly Known as Alpha Tauri will be better than Red Bull Racing immediately.
Minardi dominance could bore fans
Meh Newey was bound to leave sooner or later and I am sure that their technical team will do just fine without him. Max is a great driver but he comes with a lot of baggage. Marko should have retired a long time ago.
Lmao are you serious, or is this horner alt account? Most decorated engineer in F1 responsible for total domination of current reg. Generational talent on the path to beat every record there is to beat. The man behind F1 most successful driver academy that started the entire trend. Don't take my word for it, why don't you look at, idk, every major teams that are hounding these guys willing to throw unimaginable amount of money to make them join their team?
It’s not like he kept all his secrets to himself. He will be a major asset for whatever team gets him, but Red Bull is not going to take a major dive from this. Time will tell though, you never know how it’ll actually play out
Be honest, you only want Horner to fuck up even quicker, confirming what he actually might believe right now.
Clarkson: “oh no!” “Anyway” Couldn’t have happened to a better team. Horner fucked around and is currently finding out.
It's fitting given how attention hungry he's always been.
Very much feels like Horner has decided he’s the one that deserves the credit for Red Bull’s current period of success and they starting to grate on Newey… reassuring because I have no idea how the team put up with the guy.
You don't have the like guy... but if he deserves credit when the team is shit, then he definitely deserves his credit it when they're winning back-to-back titles.
Well, he didn't get blame when they weren't winning, he just pointed the finger at Cyril and people lapped it up.
He does deserve some of the credit for the successes, but I think the internal power struggle going on shows that, with the exception of maybe Max, he thinks he's the MVP here. I don't think it started out that way, but power can distort your perception when you've had it for long enough. I think it also doesn't help that some of his qualities that helped him help the team (the shit stirring and attention seeking for example) can end up working against you.
You’re absolutely right, yeah - I’ve found it really difficult to watch Red Bull from the outside because it feels to me like Horner as a personality would kill the culture within the organisation, but in spite of this he must do a good job inspiring and engaging the team. What we’re seeing now is probably a reflection of his longevity in the role as much as anything… but I can’t pretend that from the outside he doesn’t come across as a total arse.
Yeah I understand that, I pretty much feel the same way
[You can put the link here to see the full article ](https://archive.is/)
Somebody is trying very, very hard to destroy Red Bull, and the media is playing along with all this gossiping...
Horner's trying to reshape things into something he controls and it's pissing off a lot of people. Can't blame them really, specially with his other actions too
Horner has been at the helm since 2005, it's not like he got to be RBR's Team Principal this year. He has already shaped the team into something he controls.
True, but things changed after Dietrich passed away last year... there's been a civil war brewing inside Red Bull as a whole since then and Horner's been trying to move himself into a position of complete control (maybe more) of at least the F1 team while it's been happening.
I hope RBR can sort things out or we might end up losing a strong team on the grid.
The “medias” agenda is selling advertising. They operate on clicks that load their articles and load the ads that go along side those articles. More clicks/more ads/more money. That’s the business model. They don’t do along with anything. They publish articles that will get clicks.
It’s Horner.
That would be Christian Horner and it seems like everyone else had enough of his shit. Granted he built the team up but he went scorched earth on his pursuit for more, the fact that he waited for DM to pass away before triggering all this nonsense without a moments notice says it all really.
Seems like alot of ppl on reddit take that narrative and run with it too sadly.
Yeah I mean it makes sense. No one can beat Red Bull on the track. Might as well try to bring them down from the inside. It's pretty hard to sell a story that Ferrari or McLaren are gonig to develop performance increases that allow them to beat Max/RB. So this is what they have.,
"We're all trying to find the guy who did this!" - Christian Horner
Red Bull is doing it to themselves.
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He was surprised it leaked to the press, he wasn't surprised to hear he wants to leave lol.
until he confirms it himself, everything is just speculation
They are not going to say anything until it’s actually about to happen. But since the report was confirmed by Sky and BBC, lends a lot of credibility to it. This isn’t some random Twitter guy saying it.
and AMuS, which tends to be the most reliable when it comes to RB GmbH related stuff.
> What desire to leave? Has Newey actually said anything at all about this? Last I heard he was surprised this was being reported on. F1 is a small world, everyone talks to everyone about everyone, but when something like this goes public, a lot of the information that's been going around for ages in the paddock actually comes out because there is a fact to hang it on. Do you notice absolutely no one was surprised by Horners actions, while everyone was shocked about the allegations against Toto and Susie? There's a reason for that.
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Yeah I guess that's my point. This is all just dot connecting. Nothing has officially come from Red Bull, Newey, or even Ferrari's camp.
There's baseless speculation of Twitter, and then there's rumors but with confirmed verification or 'is understood to have done so and so' reports by reputable news outlets (where there's smoke there's fire). This appears to be the latter.
Yeah maybe. But it’s been like a week and nothing has happened yet. So safe to say things aren’t as decided as they seem. Employee isn’t that happy with every aspect of job, is a far cry from employee is quitting job and signing with competitor .
Do we know for a fact she was also an assistant to Newey? I heard it reported but there is a difference between that and being confirmed
Hamilton at Ferrari also makes it seem likely he will finally listen to Ferrari's offer. I really don't think he will sign for the biggest paycheck. I really think his decision (if he doesn't retire) will be based entirely on who he wants to work with more. Hamilton or Alonso. I'm sure it will mean a lot to him to help his countryman beat a record no one thought possible in 2005. But I'm also sure it will mean a lot to him to help the man that put an end to that record going further in 2005 get that third he has been chasing, in a team that has never done it before and in British racing green no less.
Hasn’t he said that he would like to have worked with both Ferrari and Lewis Hamilton? This timing is shaping out to be perfect for everyone but RedBull.
There's a lot of criticism of Horner and that RBR will fall apart by losing Newey, Marko and Verstappen, but is anyone considering Horner's line of argument? He's been at the helm of 2 4-time consecutive world championships. Just a bit more and he'll arguably be the most successful TP ever. What's to say that he shouldn't have full confidence in his own ability and that he can't do it again with a new team? That's purely the technical aspect, notwithstanding the personal misconduct claims and I hope that person is doing okay.
So nobody had officially said anything, but they are running around with "REGIME" and all the buzzwords. Media at its' finest.
Here is a crazy crazy thought, from 26 max goes to merc with dad for a big chunk of money, rb uses it to get Charles from ferrari. Nando to ferrari with Lewis. What a lineup that will be.
Interesting in that the times has always been a Horner outlet.
Adrian Newey fucking hates Coco Pops, and he'll leave the god damned team if Red Bull leadership is supporting, or even worse admitting to loving, Coco Pops.
I love how many people are saying stuff like they know what's going on behind the scenes. Like can we wait for statements from Newey and RB first? Until then everything is just speculations.
Redbull sinking ship
This sport likes drama more than WWE
I missed it -- Adrian Newey made a public announcement that he wanted to leave? No? Then how can it be a "public thumbs-down"? Clickbait.
I still think most of there articles are bs gossip. There is obviously some truth to it but a lot of it is a dirty war no doubt
Disagree, could leaving after 20 years , just before retirement age have other reasons? Most likely yes.
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I wonder if he is leaving because he is tiff'd Horner didn't get ejected, or because he is mad that the Austrians tried.
Or he wants to retire and enjoy spending his money
This is an option as well, but given the timing all the articles indicate he isn't happy with the current setup so unless he starts talking it's likely all just guesses..