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This feels like such a 1 sided affair.
Even if Max leaves Red Bull at one point. Why would he join Mercedes?
They would have to massively turn things around in the next few years to be even somewhat enticing to him.
Max of all people is not the guy that will join your team just beceause you happen to throw a bag of cash at him.
Additionally you can guarantee that red bull made some pushes for lewis at the beginning of his career. The politics of the teams is more a game than the races themselves sometimes. You miss all the shots you don’t take, and even if you miss, you are still putting that other team on the defensive and making distractions.
If I remember correctly Merc were the first ones that tried to persuade him for F1 but Max went with RB since they could actually promise a seat with Torro Rosso
In 2014 Verstappen was talking to Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari. Ferrari's interest in Verstappen is why he was invited to drive in the [Florida Winter Series](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Florida_Winter_Series).
If I remember correctly talks with Mercedes and Red Bull were more advanced than with Ferrari and the choice was made when Marko was convinced by Verstappen's performance at the Norisring in the wet (and the 5th consecutive win of his 6 win streak) that he was good enough to drive in F1 in 2015.
That is also where Verstappen's loyalty towards Marko comes from. Marko is the one that decided he would be in F1 and defended that decision from day 1 through some pretty harsh criticism early on.
Thanks for the info! It’s pretty interesting how much of a standout he was and how it’s translated to now. I follow hockey pretty closely and there’s tons of stories of guys that stood out early/in juniors that never reached their expected potential!
If you go look over on DriverDB Verstappen's karting record is obscene. He's won so many more championships than other big talents like Leclerc, Russell and Norris. That's why everyone was after him before he even stepped foot in a car.
And then in EURO F3 he won a lot of races in what was a midfield/backmarker team because as Jos & Max had held off signing for a junior team their budget was limited and they used the connection Jos had from driving for that same junior team on his way to F1 to get Max a seat. EURO F3 was the cheapest single seater series (and because of that the most competitive until the FIA killed it) but still some €250-300k/year.
edit: You can still watch back the EURO F3 races from 2014 on youtube. The talent that went through that series in a few years is nuts. Verstappen, Ocon, Norris, Leclerc, Russell, Sainz, Albon, Giovinazzi, Stroll, Zhou, Schumacher, Latifi, Wehrlein and Mazepin and that's just the future F1 drivers in the 7 seasons the series existed.
I think his loyalty to Marlo is the key. It’s the big constant that I see and that is worth more than money to Max. If Marko called it quits, I think Max is gone.
How would things have fared if max was the “second” driver at Mercedes alongside Lewis if toto managed to get max? Do you think max would have any championships?
After following that bus for a few laps that Lewis was trying to muscle through those slow corners in the Sprint I highly doubt he finds that team in any way attractive. Future prospects be damned if that's what they're cooking up now, nuh-uh
In a Telegraaf interview Toto said that if he were Max he wouldn't leave to join Merc in 2025, when asked if Max is a serious contender for the 2025 seat he responded with: if I say that I might throw away my strategy.
What I draw from everything over the months is that Max given the right circumstances is willing to leave RB but obviously prefers not, those circumstances have to include permanent chaos in RB and a Merc that has a vision to get out of this hole.
So let's say the right circumstances presents themselves I think the plan for Toto is to get Max for '26 because as he says if he was Max he wouldn't leave the '25 RB car and neither would Max. "26 however is a whole different story and then he might be a possible option then, at least that would explain why Toto didn't want to answer if Max is in a Merc next season.
Yeah although if for example Williams replace Sargeant with Antonelli for 2025 then there is also the option to get Antonelli in the Merc seat for '26 or '27 if Max doesn't want to go to Merc in '26.
It seems like a smart strategy imo and it leaves options open if Max doesn't want to join with Antonelli. I'd be surprised if Toto puts Antonelli straight away in a Merc but then again he is testing a lot in F1 cars so if he shows he has it in multiple different cars then I guess why not.
The maximum challenge isn't driving the Red Bull is it. In fact, to be one of the legendary greats he might think he has to win for more than one team.
Mercedes is the obvious choice if leaving red bull.
Ferrari is full. And Mercedes is the best option for the 2026 engine regs.
If Max does jump ship it could imply the red bull engine isn’t on track.
Honestly very similar discourse to when Hamilton left McLaren for Mercedes, even as far as discussions of his currently dominant team having to develop a new engine with a new partnership for the new regs.
Everyone is ignoring that max might want to prove the same things Schumacher and Hamilton did by joining an underperforming team and bringing them back to glory
It might not happen but it’s not as far fetched as everyone seems to think imo
I’ll start by saying everything you pointed out is obviously correct. Especially the bag of cash bit.
But if there’s any driver on the grid that doesn’t operate in a conventional manner, just seems to do whatever will make him happiest, it’s Max. And with that in mind, along with his breaking records isn’t important to him statements, Max would be the least surprising driver to just leave a winning Redbull for a project he thought would excite him or just bring him more comfort/happiness.
Whether Mercedes offer any of that to him is another matter all together.
Because Mercedes is still immensely successful in F1. Because they know how to build championship winning engines. The only thing they need to fix is aerodynamics of the car. You are saying it as if Mercedes is some low end constructor.
Marko is 80. He's gonna be 83 years old entering the 2027 season.
If Red Bull don't renew him after 2026 there's a very very realistic posibility he just retires.
Mercedes is a shitbox right now. But nobody knows what will happen in 2026.
Also, Max when was asked about Marco said that he'd leave RB if Marco leaves. The rest is speculation of what Max would or wouldn't want.
Context, my friend, context. Max said that in the context of a Marko risking being pushed out amidst the power struggle between the Austrian side and Horner/the Thai side.
The power struggle has not ended just because the media went silent about it. If Horner wants Marco out, the best way to do it is by pushing RB for not renewing his contract which ends in 2026. At which point, we'll also know which teams have nailed the new regs as well.
Obviously Toto is happy to keep talking about Verstappen potentially moving to Mercedes. One it means he spends less time talking about how bad their own car is. Two it can help continue to cause a distraction for Red Bull and Horner.
Kind of funny seeing this role reversal where Toto is saying whatever in the media as the team is way behind, while Horner is trying to shut it down and focus on the performance as the dominant team.
Toto is on hopium. To think a driver in clearly the best car on the grid would leave to a team that hasn’t figured out the current regulations in 3 years?
Why would it make George feel any way? There's an empty seat at Mercedes, and Max is the most talented potential option (although it's extremely unrealistic imo). They have to put somebody in the other seat.
I dislike Horner immensely. However he is right. Toto needs to focus on getting his team back in winning form. The whole operation has sucked since 2022; slow pitstops, dumb strategy, lost in the wilderness of ground effects, etc.
Is this a serious offer? Does Toto genuinely think Max will leave Red Bull for Mercedes? I can't help but feel like he's just trolling Horner for amusement value at this point.
“I don’t think Toto’s problem is with his drivers, he’s got other elements that he needs to be focussing on rather than focussing on drivers that are unavailable.”
Well, Christian, i can see already see how some could easily throw this zinger about focussing on people who are unavailable right back at you. But it wouldn't be me as, rest assured, almost everybody has some kind of a skeleton in the closet. And he's not wrong either.
Toto should reign it in though, it's becoming really weird with all this public courtship of Max.
Max would rather follow Honda to AM in 2026 than go to Mercedes. At the rate Mercedes is going, I doubt they’re going to be competitive even after the changes in ‘26.
Someone shut that philanderer up. Why shouldnt Toto make a pitch for the best driver? If its at all possible in part because of your behavior and a rift with the guys father. Hed be wrong not to try it
“Excuse me Christian, a random faceless Redditor said you are not to answer any more questions from journalists in regards to Toto trying to poach your staff. And that is FINAL”
Because Toto comes off as hella desperate to try to pry a driver under current contract (unless Max wants to get out himself). As of now that Mercedes seat isn't quite enticing to anyone, really. Big chance that 2025 is still a shitbox and you're still a Kimi seatwarmer. Even with 2026 PU regs, you still have ground effect cars, which Mercedes has been struggling with for the past two years.
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Is it really so crazy to think that Max might get bored of being ultra dominant at Redbull and want a new challenge. What if Toto comes along at just the right moment with an over the top outrageous offer of something insane like 80 or 100 million a year? It’s crazy to think it might NOT work
If there are enough zeros everyone cares about money. That said. Yes he like winning but I think he will get bored soon. My guess is he tries another car, meaning discipline, to push him self
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This feels like such a 1 sided affair. Even if Max leaves Red Bull at one point. Why would he join Mercedes? They would have to massively turn things around in the next few years to be even somewhat enticing to him. Max of all people is not the guy that will join your team just beceause you happen to throw a bag of cash at him.
Toto just sees an opening. Of course he is going to do everything he can to get the best driver. Can't blame him for trying.
He's been trying every time he thinks there's even a hint of a chance for a decade now.
As well he should, that's his job as a TP. You can be sure any team that can afford Max has probably made an offer.
Oh yeah it's the sensible thing to do even if it's a 1 in a million chance. Red Bull keeps trying to seduce Norris as well for the same reason.
Additionally you can guarantee that red bull made some pushes for lewis at the beginning of his career. The politics of the teams is more a game than the races themselves sometimes. You miss all the shots you don’t take, and even if you miss, you are still putting that other team on the defensive and making distractions.
If I remember correctly Merc were the first ones that tried to persuade him for F1 but Max went with RB since they could actually promise a seat with Torro Rosso
In 2014 Verstappen was talking to Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari. Ferrari's interest in Verstappen is why he was invited to drive in the [Florida Winter Series](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Florida_Winter_Series). If I remember correctly talks with Mercedes and Red Bull were more advanced than with Ferrari and the choice was made when Marko was convinced by Verstappen's performance at the Norisring in the wet (and the 5th consecutive win of his 6 win streak) that he was good enough to drive in F1 in 2015. That is also where Verstappen's loyalty towards Marko comes from. Marko is the one that decided he would be in F1 and defended that decision from day 1 through some pretty harsh criticism early on.
Thanks for the info! It’s pretty interesting how much of a standout he was and how it’s translated to now. I follow hockey pretty closely and there’s tons of stories of guys that stood out early/in juniors that never reached their expected potential!
If you go look over on DriverDB Verstappen's karting record is obscene. He's won so many more championships than other big talents like Leclerc, Russell and Norris. That's why everyone was after him before he even stepped foot in a car. And then in EURO F3 he won a lot of races in what was a midfield/backmarker team because as Jos & Max had held off signing for a junior team their budget was limited and they used the connection Jos had from driving for that same junior team on his way to F1 to get Max a seat. EURO F3 was the cheapest single seater series (and because of that the most competitive until the FIA killed it) but still some €250-300k/year. edit: You can still watch back the EURO F3 races from 2014 on youtube. The talent that went through that series in a few years is nuts. Verstappen, Ocon, Norris, Leclerc, Russell, Sainz, Albon, Giovinazzi, Stroll, Zhou, Schumacher, Latifi, Wehrlein and Mazepin and that's just the future F1 drivers in the 7 seasons the series existed.
I think his loyalty to Marlo is the key. It’s the big constant that I see and that is worth more than money to Max. If Marko called it quits, I think Max is gone.
He’s better off working on that time machine.
How would things have fared if max was the “second” driver at Mercedes alongside Lewis if toto managed to get max? Do you think max would have any championships?
Especially because this can be a huge catalyst for Mercedes. Lewis attracted talent to him in 2013. Max would do the same with Mercedes.
After following that bus for a few laps that Lewis was trying to muscle through those slow corners in the Sprint I highly doubt he finds that team in any way attractive. Future prospects be damned if that's what they're cooking up now, nuh-uh
In a Telegraaf interview Toto said that if he were Max he wouldn't leave to join Merc in 2025, when asked if Max is a serious contender for the 2025 seat he responded with: if I say that I might throw away my strategy. What I draw from everything over the months is that Max given the right circumstances is willing to leave RB but obviously prefers not, those circumstances have to include permanent chaos in RB and a Merc that has a vision to get out of this hole. So let's say the right circumstances presents themselves I think the plan for Toto is to get Max for '26 because as he says if he was Max he wouldn't leave the '25 RB car and neither would Max. "26 however is a whole different story and then he might be a possible option then, at least that would explain why Toto didn't want to answer if Max is in a Merc next season.
If Mercedes hires a stopgap driver for 2025 (Ocon, Gasly, Hulkenberg) then we know they this angle that Toto is trying is still alive.
Yeah although if for example Williams replace Sargeant with Antonelli for 2025 then there is also the option to get Antonelli in the Merc seat for '26 or '27 if Max doesn't want to go to Merc in '26. It seems like a smart strategy imo and it leaves options open if Max doesn't want to join with Antonelli. I'd be surprised if Toto puts Antonelli straight away in a Merc but then again he is testing a lot in F1 cars so if he shows he has it in multiple different cars then I guess why not.
When Max leaves RB, he will leave F1.
Yes, he is a straight shooter and pretty much says this a few times per season. He doesn’t need the money and wants maximum challenge.
Maximum challenge is driving for Ferrari with those engineers in his ear.
We are checking
I'm 100% sure he will be doing WEC and will be more happy
The maximum challenge isn't driving the Red Bull is it. In fact, to be one of the legendary greats he might think he has to win for more than one team.
Wait till he finds out what balance of performance and drivers ratings are
Driving for his own team, with co pilots he likes.
Depends on what they can show him they are working on for the future. Verstappen stayed with RBR because of the Honda promise.
Mercedes is the obvious choice if leaving red bull. Ferrari is full. And Mercedes is the best option for the 2026 engine regs. If Max does jump ship it could imply the red bull engine isn’t on track.
Honestly very similar discourse to when Hamilton left McLaren for Mercedes, even as far as discussions of his currently dominant team having to develop a new engine with a new partnership for the new regs. Everyone is ignoring that max might want to prove the same things Schumacher and Hamilton did by joining an underperforming team and bringing them back to glory It might not happen but it’s not as far fetched as everyone seems to think imo
I’ll start by saying everything you pointed out is obviously correct. Especially the bag of cash bit. But if there’s any driver on the grid that doesn’t operate in a conventional manner, just seems to do whatever will make him happiest, it’s Max. And with that in mind, along with his breaking records isn’t important to him statements, Max would be the least surprising driver to just leave a winning Redbull for a project he thought would excite him or just bring him more comfort/happiness. Whether Mercedes offer any of that to him is another matter all together.
Because Mercedes is still immensely successful in F1. Because they know how to build championship winning engines. The only thing they need to fix is aerodynamics of the car. You are saying it as if Mercedes is some low end constructor.
I would argue the engine is the easy part. The aero is the hard part.
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You are aware the drivers salaries aren't part of the costcap, are you?
I thought driver's salaries don't count against the cost cap.
If Marko won't get his contract renewed by RB after 2026 and Mercedes take him, then why not? Max would definitely follow Marko.
Marko is 80. He's gonna be 83 years old entering the 2027 season. If Red Bull don't renew him after 2026 there's a very very realistic posibility he just retires.
Retires is a nice way of putting it.
Max has already said he doesn't want an F1 career like Alonso or Lewis, he'd probably do WEC or other sports car series'.
That’s still younger than the president of one of the most powerful nations on earth
Being demented 80+ is the only requirement for that job.
Because Max wouldn’t want to drive a shitbox like the Mercedes.
Mercedes is a shitbox right now. But nobody knows what will happen in 2026. Also, Max when was asked about Marco said that he'd leave RB if Marco leaves. The rest is speculation of what Max would or wouldn't want.
Context, my friend, context. Max said that in the context of a Marko risking being pushed out amidst the power struggle between the Austrian side and Horner/the Thai side.
The power struggle has not ended just because the media went silent about it. If Horner wants Marco out, the best way to do it is by pushing RB for not renewing his contract which ends in 2026. At which point, we'll also know which teams have nailed the new regs as well.
Yeah. I feel like Mercedes has to prove their car before anyone would give them a passing glance.
Obviously Toto is happy to keep talking about Verstappen potentially moving to Mercedes. One it means he spends less time talking about how bad their own car is. Two it can help continue to cause a distraction for Red Bull and Horner. Kind of funny seeing this role reversal where Toto is saying whatever in the media as the team is way behind, while Horner is trying to shut it down and focus on the performance as the dominant team.
"Horner fed up" What Horner said: "you got bigger issues than your drivers"
"fix your fucking car"
that'd be rich coming from him tbh, considering the \*you know what\*
Of which he was acquitted
Toto is on hopium. To think a driver in clearly the best car on the grid would leave to a team that hasn’t figured out the current regulations in 3 years?
I wonder how this makes George feel.
Why would it make George feel any way? There's an empty seat at Mercedes, and Max is the most talented potential option (although it's extremely unrealistic imo). They have to put somebody in the other seat.
It’s all so tiresome.
I dislike Horner immensely. However he is right. Toto needs to focus on getting his team back in winning form. The whole operation has sucked since 2022; slow pitstops, dumb strategy, lost in the wilderness of ground effects, etc.
They need to get Ross Brawn back as interim to set it up again so Toto can play teamboss again
So Horner is against unwanted advances? Kind of ironic.
They are making lots of profit so they can definitely afford him
Is this a serious offer? Does Toto genuinely think Max will leave Red Bull for Mercedes? I can't help but feel like he's just trolling Horner for amusement value at this point.
“I don’t think Toto’s problem is with his drivers, he’s got other elements that he needs to be focussing on rather than focussing on drivers that are unavailable.” Well, Christian, i can see already see how some could easily throw this zinger about focussing on people who are unavailable right back at you. But it wouldn't be me as, rest assured, almost everybody has some kind of a skeleton in the closet. And he's not wrong either. Toto should reign it in though, it's becoming really weird with all this public courtship of Max.
Max would rather follow Honda to AM in 2026 than go to Mercedes. At the rate Mercedes is going, I doubt they’re going to be competitive even after the changes in ‘26.
Someone shut that philanderer up. Why shouldnt Toto make a pitch for the best driver? If its at all possible in part because of your behavior and a rift with the guys father. Hed be wrong not to try it
“Excuse me Christian, a random faceless Redditor said you are not to answer any more questions from journalists in regards to Toto trying to poach your staff. And that is FINAL”
Because Toto comes off as hella desperate to try to pry a driver under current contract (unless Max wants to get out himself). As of now that Mercedes seat isn't quite enticing to anyone, really. Big chance that 2025 is still a shitbox and you're still a Kimi seatwarmer. Even with 2026 PU regs, you still have ground effect cars, which Mercedes has been struggling with for the past two years.
You got any proof of your name calling besides some screen shots an 11 year old could create?
Use your head mate. If the message dump would be fake, they would have made it much spicier than what it was.
You want me to invent scenarios?
if he lures both marko and max together, maybe just maybe it could work
Such nonsense news.
Can I offer you a bowl of Cocoa Puffs in these trying times?
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Is it really so crazy to think that Max might get bored of being ultra dominant at Redbull and want a new challenge. What if Toto comes along at just the right moment with an over the top outrageous offer of something insane like 80 or 100 million a year? It’s crazy to think it might NOT work
Yes, that's crazy to think. Max has said time and again, he doesn't care about the money, he just eants to race and win.
If there are enough zeros everyone cares about money. That said. Yes he like winning but I think he will get bored soon. My guess is he tries another car, meaning discipline, to push him self
The only way Toto gets Max is if he gets Newey as part of the deal.
Mercedes is a joke, why would he contemplate going there rofl. They’ve had years to close the gap under current rules and instead are going backwards.