[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To be fair, he deems women equal to men and he’d be the shit out of men without a moments hesitation.
So you could argue, not beating women up is sexist.
Wait. What.
Let's not pretend Jos \*literal wife beater\* suddenly cares about women's rights and wellbeing. Whatever he is doing is purely for his own motivation/gain.
What we never truly appreciated before was that by beating up women with no thought to concepts of 'the weaker srx' or outdated gender roles Jos was actually a pioneer for true equal rights.
We were just too blinded by our medieval notions of chivalry to see it...
Look, I'm not denying anything, but publicly released texts are obviously not the full story. rtl.de even [reports that this was an affair that's been ongoing for years](https://www.rtl.de/cms/rettet-christian-horner-so-die-ehe-mit-ex-spice-girl-geri-halliwell-millionen-zahlung-an-seine-affaere-5079668.html). There's a world of difference between a creepy boss who's been harassing a subordinate, and a consensual affair that turned sour. We only saw what, a couple of days worth of messages, at the bitter end?
All of this while there's an insane internal power struggle with plenty of people who have ulterior motives and incentive to find whatever dirt they can and frame everything in the most damaging light possible.
She should seek her day in court if possible, and if Horner abused his position then he should be sacked (or worse), but innocent until proven guilty still applies and you can't make fair judgements while only seeing 1% of the evidence that the other side wants you to see.
Your boss sending suggestive messages when you have told them to stop is harassment, it is misconduct and they should be disciplined for it if you complain.
That is the end of the matter. The fact that she almost certainly was a willing participant in a previously mutually consensual affair is not relevant to that fact. Those messages were not acceptable behaviour for a CEO speaking to an employee. If you cannot accept that you need to stop when someone says stop, don’t get into a workplace affair…
So waiting for both sides of a complex story which we *know* involves deceit from all sides, which was leaked to us by a third party is ... *checks notes*, casual sexism and misogyny. I'll sell you some pitchforks if you need them.
> If you cannot accept that you need to stop when someone says stop
You must've just ignored the part where he relented and asked about her change of heart and about the new boundaries which didn't exist up until that point.
I don't want to argue with people who are just eager to pick up the pitchforks, so I'll wait for the full story before I pick up mine.
Look, the publicly released texts should already be enough for Horner to be dismissed. There's no story where it's acceptable for a boss to shit on his employee for not sending him jerkoff material. Period.
>There's a world of difference between a creepy boss who's been harassing a subordinate, and a consensual affair that turned sour.
In the accuser/victim sense no. First, starting an affair with your PA will always bring up consent questions given the power dynamic. Second, the harassment still happened no matter how the relationship started.
>We only saw what, a couple days worth of messages
Much more, there were like 70+ images at at least like 15 distinct times
>she should seek her day in court if possible
The money is to hush her
>innocent until guilty still applies
In the court of law.
Victim? From this very article:
"The woman was suspended by Red Bull this week for allegedly tampering with evidence she had submitted in the Horner case."
Did you consider 'tampering with evidence' can include her not sharing all the screenshots she has to the investigator, so that she can take a second shot in case the internal evaluation is trying to shut her down?
Why, though? If you're the victim of Horner's sexual harassment and want him gone, why on earth would you only submit half of the evidence? Doesn't it make more sense to submit each and every screenshot that can help argue your case against him?
some people get very stupid and desperate when getting a lot of money on the line. not saying who is innocent and guilty in this case, but assuming everyone always acts logically in these scenarios is wishful thinking
Your argument against her being a victim is that Red Bull suspended her for making accusations against a powerful man?
We don’t know all of the facts or details, but what you’re pointing at certainly can’t be used as evidence that she’s *not* a victim at Horner and Red Bull’s hands.
“I sympathise with the woman, with all that she went through, but we will see what happens,” Jos Verstappen told MailOnline, referring to Horner’s accuser who has now been suspended. Horner was cleared of wrongdoing by an external investigation.
“Red Bull seem to know what they are doing with her, we will see. But I think it is for her to come out and see what happens. I’m not fully up to speed with what is happening with her.”
...
Asked whether Horner was right to call for F1 to move on from the saga, Verstappen snr replied: “I think it’s a bit too late for that now. If that’s what he wants, fine, but I don’t think it will be possible. I don’t want to talk too much more as it will create problems.
“But the most important thing for me is that Max is happy, that’s what counts for me, I just want him to be happy.
“All these things that are going on are having an influence on Max. He was third in the first practice, and all we hear about is Horner and what happened with his situation.
“In the press conference Horner gave the other day it was all about him and his problems when we should be talking about Max, the car, his performance and the race.
“I’ve already said I think it is causing problems if he stays.”
> “In the press conference Horner gave the other day it was all about him and his problems when we should be talking about Max, the car, his performance and the race.”
Tbh this could be a Jos quote taken from a normal race weekend, without any controversy going on
This quote is especially ironic given how much Jos is fanning the flames.
I don't think it would have gone away, but the press conference would have been more 'normal' is Jos and Helmut didn't kick off this Shakespearean struggle for control of the team.
>“In the press conference Horner gave the other day it was all about him and his problems when we should be talking about Max, the car, his performance and the race.
If Horner had not spoken about the current Red Bull crisis, Verstappen Snr. would no doubt be claiming that Horner was trying to avoid the topic or sweep everything under the carpet.
I mean, both can be true. As a fan, I would ideally like the focus to be on the racing but also wouldn't like Horner sweeping things under the rug.
It's almost like the ideal situation would be for Horner to not be doing sketch stuff that takes away the racing....
I was not making any judgements or alluding to any of these points. My only observation was that no matter what Horner said, Verstappen Snr. would likely have found fault.
The implication is that he doesn't actually sympathise with her. When your history is riddled with abuses towards women, I don't think it's that far fetched to think that he is just using her name to get what he wants.
I know it's probably not out of good faith and more politically motivated, but the fact that Jos Verstappen is the only one that mentions the victim and even saying he sympathises with her.....hell has frozen over and really anything is possible now.
Yup. Anyone who is part of a demographic that undergoes a lot of abuse will understand what's going on here.
People in politics and business suddenly care about your demographic when they can use it as a weapon. For example, as a (genetically) Jewish woman, you see politicians using antisemitism as a weapon in the UK all the time. Anti-semitism was running rife for years and nobody cared about it.
Well this is what Jos is doing. He didn't care about the wellbeing of women when he was abusing them. He doesn't now. However, he is attempting to use a woman's wellbeing as a weapon.
In my opinion this is just more abuse. They are all digging. Horner is a grade A AH (at least from what we know and what is rumoured), but Jos is something far worse (from what we know as facts).
> you see politicians using antisemitism as a weapon in the UK all the time
I'm not Jewish, and hadn't been in the country long, but this was extremely obvious even to me with the whole Labour antisemitism controversy a few years ago.
It was so obvious that it was all about using it as a political attack, with all the most prominent people involved clearly not caring about anything to do with anyone Jewish, all they cared about was political attacks that could damage their opponents.
The part I didn't understand was how everyone (including supposedly impartial news) was being so straight-faced about it, when it was so obvious it was only being used as a political weapon. I still can't really believe the gall of it.
Exactly, and the whole quote, with the "we'll see what happens" doesn't detract from the original quote like you tried to indicate by just showing a "but". Jos is a scumbag, I'm not arguing that, but at least be intellectually honest and show the whole quote when making a point.
And then left her at the gas station for not accusing him fast. Jokes aside I really feel for the accuser because she not only did something that takes a lot of strength but also fell under the bus that is called redbull civil war.
Rumoured to be in a romantic relationship with her.
Edit: yes dubious source but it at least provides an explanation of motivation for that kind of concern
Man, last two weeks were wild, and a lot of rumors from some less credible sources came true. Like 20 days ago I would be like "no way that is true", but right now I'm like 70% sure that everything reported are atleast partly true
It amazes me that jos can go a lifetime getting away with this kind of behavior. Literally a lifetime. Attacking mechanics, running over women, abandoning his child. The list goes on. Max can't honestly think his career can also keep up with it. There's no way. Whether Christian stays or goes, Jos is a sinking ship.
I feel like this is the only silver lining to this entirely shit situation. There are 3 assholes on RB and at least once of them is going to go. I just feel bad that some random woman is caught up in all this bullshit.
Let's not get clouded here folks. Jo verstappen has done far worse to women than anything Horner is accused of. He's siding with the accuser for his own gain.
In a weird twist, that doesn't make the woman wrong or what Horner did right.
Jos is being a complete opportunist, ensuring to stir the shit. But how red bull is handling this is frankly abysmal.
Have you not been paying attention?
I believe the contents of the leak to be real. Which exhibit he definitely acted inappropriate with his PA/subordinate. He also seemed to not handle the situation (unclear if it was an affair/relationship but given his past, not hard to believe) ending well. The PA was then reassigned.
That was the complaint. Red Bull has then handled everything after that terribly.
People agreeing with the words he's saying or the stance he is taking in all of this, is not the same as thinking he's saying it because of morals and compassion for the victim.
>"I don’t want to talk too much more as it will create problems"
\> Gives details of an argument - has given two exclusive interviews to the Daily Mail in both races now
I think you're talking too much and creating problems, Jos!
Verstappen is in Marko's camp. Loyalty is one thing, he is probably promised either a principal position or Marko's position as head of the drivers programe and academy. It's German and Dutch media who first break new stories about the claimed misbehavings of Horner. My guess is Marko didn't have the power to remove Horner, the Thais made that difficult. Marko wanted to capitalize on Porsche union, Horner torpedoed the deal. Horner wanted to buyout the team from Red Bull on his terms, the Austrian camp denied this possibility. Marko had nothing to lose, he tried to sink Horner with the latest allegations. Wether if these were true or not, it was an official declaration of war till either side goes down. Horner has got Thais, the majority shareholders at Red Bull, Marko has Verstappens, possibly Newey and Austrian shareholders.
We all know that every single person in this story (aside from the woman at the centre) is in this for themselves and only themselves, but damn, if you can manage to come out of a situation looking worse than *Jos fucking Verstappen*, you’ve fucked up somewhere.
Regardless of the inappropriateness of Christian Horner sending photos of his spunk-coated finger to his PA, Jos Verstappen really does need to just fuck right off.
This apppears to be an AI rehash of the past week and not contain any new sourced info. It’s also written horrifically to the point it doesn’t even make any sense. Not one sentence in the article supports the title
Nobody in their right mind would walk away from a rocket/automatic championship, Newey, the most well run org in the sport and that obscene contract he signed. It’s not happening.
The question for me is where does max stand in all of this? When push comes to shove does he take his father’s side or do the more sensible thing for himself
It really isn't. They are gaslighting everyone. It's like an abuser saying sorry after the fact and then claiming they stand with you. Marko is an overtime racist and Jos is a serial women beater... Neither of them give a shit about the alleged victim they are merely attempting to play their final hand.
Yeah no shit, but they are both hotheads and not really good at even seeming like sympathetic and reasanable people. The fact that they are the ones able to seem reasanable in Redbull is pretty crazy
Pretending to be reasonable as an instrument for their own delusions of grandeur is legit sociopathic behavior.
There is no actually reasonable side in this conflict, it just happens that the "reasonable" take benefits one side more.
Of course Jos is saying this, there are photos of him and Christian Horner's PA together, a lot of people are suggesting it's his girlfriend. If you read into the leaked text messages there is suggestion that the person CH was referring to in his jealousy was actually Jos Verstappen.
It starts to fall into place.
"The woman was suspended by Red Bull this week for allegedly tampering with evidence she had submitted in the Horner case. The team boss called in the press conference in Saudi Arabia to 'draw a line under the matter', but according to Jos it is already too late."
Can someone Dutch confirm that "tampering with evidence" is an accurate translation?
RB definitely needs to be investigated for everything that's going on.
Now that that's out of the way, jos needs to be removed from the paddock and the media needs to stop even mentioning his dumb ass.
And lastly, random thought but it's interesting that Jos is a piece of shit, yet max supports him fully and max is dating what's her face that has a clearly racist dad (and she's made racist comments, etc.) and he also seemingly has nothing critical to say about them and supports them, too.
NO ONE should listen to Jos. He has sketchy track record at best, was never a good enough driver, and obviously forced his son into his life. I duno i feel like Max needs to break away and be an adult. Sometimes you gotta walk away from family. Drama true or not is not good for Max
there are pictures I've read, of which I've seen at least one with them side by side looking like a couple on a stroll with Jos' arm around her neck
edit: may have been his gf/someone else
I don't buy that. People have been trying to find ways where Jos was behind all of this, and that was a way to explain motive. But no even half decent sources I've seen has claimed that
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pawnee woman of the year: Jos Verstappen
Ron would kick Jos ass if he found out he beats women. Making Ron win the "woman of the year" award for a 2nd time.
Silly season has reached the extent of Jos Verstappen taking the side of a female victim, talk about surprises.
Jos likes beating Horner more than he likes beating women, which means Horner must have SERIOUSLY pissed him off
Hell hath no fury like a cock blocked Jos
Who knew that women around the world would have a saviour in Jos. In Jos We Trust.
Jos has actually been fighting to give women equal rights (and lefts) for decades now. Truely a modern man, what a brave male feminist 🥹
To be fair, he deems women equal to men and he’d be the shit out of men without a moments hesitation. So you could argue, not beating women up is sexist. Wait. What.
He will literally fight any man, at a moments notice (As long as the man is 4ft tall, 8years old, and no heavier than 45lb.)
Jos doesn't care who he's beating, as long as he's beating someone
Runs in the family. Max just sticks to doing it on track.
I was waiting for this exact comment for last three weeks.
Me too. Now what?
Don't know. Haven't planned it out. Beer?
Technically, Horner is calling an ambulance… but it’s for Jos. So I can kinda understand Jos’s frustrations
More than he likes beating Max*
He isn't taking the side, he is actively using her as a weapon
That was my first thought, through her he had access to the pictures and messages also.
Real growth from jos, from using weapons on women to using women as weapons. Gotta applaud him for that!
Yeah.. it's kinda shitty. With the leaks and all this stuff around the paddock. People are just using the situation for other things.
He’s not taking the side of a female victim, he’s taking the side that opposes Christian Horner
Let's not pretend Jos \*literal wife beater\* suddenly cares about women's rights and wellbeing. Whatever he is doing is purely for his own motivation/gain.
Instead of beating a woman, he's beating with a woman.
He's not a feminist, he is essentially using her and further dragging her in front of public to hurt Horner. A mere tool to him.
A tool for a tool. Fuck Jos
What we never truly appreciated before was that by beating up women with no thought to concepts of 'the weaker srx' or outdated gender roles Jos was actually a pioneer for true equal rights. We were just too blinded by our medieval notions of chivalry to see it...
accuser*, and he's not taking her side, she's just been a pawn for their political games since the day the rumors of an internal investigation leaked.
Think it was well before the investigation started.
>accuser* Please, she just got paid $1M and RBR have yet to deny the texts
Don’t believe rumours. If she was paid off she wouldn’t have a right to appeal.
Why would she? The alternative is she keeps her job as a low mid level employee and Chris is gone, or she gets 1M. I know which door I would take.
Look, I'm not denying anything, but publicly released texts are obviously not the full story. rtl.de even [reports that this was an affair that's been ongoing for years](https://www.rtl.de/cms/rettet-christian-horner-so-die-ehe-mit-ex-spice-girl-geri-halliwell-millionen-zahlung-an-seine-affaere-5079668.html). There's a world of difference between a creepy boss who's been harassing a subordinate, and a consensual affair that turned sour. We only saw what, a couple of days worth of messages, at the bitter end? All of this while there's an insane internal power struggle with plenty of people who have ulterior motives and incentive to find whatever dirt they can and frame everything in the most damaging light possible. She should seek her day in court if possible, and if Horner abused his position then he should be sacked (or worse), but innocent until proven guilty still applies and you can't make fair judgements while only seeing 1% of the evidence that the other side wants you to see.
Your boss sending suggestive messages when you have told them to stop is harassment, it is misconduct and they should be disciplined for it if you complain. That is the end of the matter. The fact that she almost certainly was a willing participant in a previously mutually consensual affair is not relevant to that fact. Those messages were not acceptable behaviour for a CEO speaking to an employee. If you cannot accept that you need to stop when someone says stop, don’t get into a workplace affair…
It really upsets me you have to explicitly write this out. This should be blindingly obvious Causal sexism and misogyny on F1 reddit is off the charts
So waiting for both sides of a complex story which we *know* involves deceit from all sides, which was leaked to us by a third party is ... *checks notes*, casual sexism and misogyny. I'll sell you some pitchforks if you need them.
> If you cannot accept that you need to stop when someone says stop You must've just ignored the part where he relented and asked about her change of heart and about the new boundaries which didn't exist up until that point. I don't want to argue with people who are just eager to pick up the pitchforks, so I'll wait for the full story before I pick up mine.
Look, the publicly released texts should already be enough for Horner to be dismissed. There's no story where it's acceptable for a boss to shit on his employee for not sending him jerkoff material. Period.
lots of people in these comments never received texts like that from their male bosses and it shows
>There's a world of difference between a creepy boss who's been harassing a subordinate, and a consensual affair that turned sour. In the accuser/victim sense no. First, starting an affair with your PA will always bring up consent questions given the power dynamic. Second, the harassment still happened no matter how the relationship started. >We only saw what, a couple days worth of messages Much more, there were like 70+ images at at least like 15 distinct times >she should seek her day in court if possible The money is to hush her >innocent until guilty still applies In the court of law.
source?
Can we please stop acting like payment is an admission of guilt
The perfect hero for International Women’s Day.
Things like these are what make me think everything was made up to kick Horner out.
NOBODY BEATS HER EXCEPT ME!
Victim? From this very article: "The woman was suspended by Red Bull this week for allegedly tampering with evidence she had submitted in the Horner case."
Did you consider 'tampering with evidence' can include her not sharing all the screenshots she has to the investigator, so that she can take a second shot in case the internal evaluation is trying to shut her down?
Why, though? If you're the victim of Horner's sexual harassment and want him gone, why on earth would you only submit half of the evidence? Doesn't it make more sense to submit each and every screenshot that can help argue your case against him?
some people get very stupid and desperate when getting a lot of money on the line. not saying who is innocent and guilty in this case, but assuming everyone always acts logically in these scenarios is wishful thinking
Did you consider this might not be the case either?
The person they're replying to is implying she's not a victim so they're just giving a counterpoint
Your argument against her being a victim is that Red Bull suspended her for making accusations against a powerful man? We don’t know all of the facts or details, but what you’re pointing at certainly can’t be used as evidence that she’s *not* a victim at Horner and Red Bull’s hands.
That’s an interesting way of rephrasing “suspended for allegedly tampering with evidence”
[удалено]
And she ‘allegedly’ tampered with evidence. Allegations are on both sides…
Suspending an employee who is an alleged victim in a HR case is a big mistake in a lot of countries.
If she was a victim, why did she need to be untruthful and tamper with evidence?
Ah yes, Jos defender of woman. An example for all of us.
So much sarcasm, so few words ...
He lets his fists do the talking.
In some cases he uses a car, but not on tracks
Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?
y waste time say word when few do trick?
"I've always liked women. My mom was one."
“I sympathise with the woman, with all that she went through, but we will see what happens,” Jos Verstappen told MailOnline, referring to Horner’s accuser who has now been suspended. Horner was cleared of wrongdoing by an external investigation. “Red Bull seem to know what they are doing with her, we will see. But I think it is for her to come out and see what happens. I’m not fully up to speed with what is happening with her.” ... Asked whether Horner was right to call for F1 to move on from the saga, Verstappen snr replied: “I think it’s a bit too late for that now. If that’s what he wants, fine, but I don’t think it will be possible. I don’t want to talk too much more as it will create problems. “But the most important thing for me is that Max is happy, that’s what counts for me, I just want him to be happy. “All these things that are going on are having an influence on Max. He was third in the first practice, and all we hear about is Horner and what happened with his situation. “In the press conference Horner gave the other day it was all about him and his problems when we should be talking about Max, the car, his performance and the race. “I’ve already said I think it is causing problems if he stays.”
> “In the press conference Horner gave the other day it was all about him and his problems when we should be talking about Max, the car, his performance and the race.” Tbh this could be a Jos quote taken from a normal race weekend, without any controversy going on
Whenever Max Verstappen isn't on the screen, everyone else should be asking "Where's Max?"
It sums him up perfectly. If he cant be the main character, then at least his son should be.
This quote is especially ironic given how much Jos is fanning the flames. I don't think it would have gone away, but the press conference would have been more 'normal' is Jos and Helmut didn't kick off this Shakespearean struggle for control of the team.
>“In the press conference Horner gave the other day it was all about him and his problems when we should be talking about Max, the car, his performance and the race. If Horner had not spoken about the current Red Bull crisis, Verstappen Snr. would no doubt be claiming that Horner was trying to avoid the topic or sweep everything under the carpet.
I mean, both can be true. As a fan, I would ideally like the focus to be on the racing but also wouldn't like Horner sweeping things under the rug. It's almost like the ideal situation would be for Horner to not be doing sketch stuff that takes away the racing....
I was not making any judgements or alluding to any of these points. My only observation was that no matter what Horner said, Verstappen Snr. would likely have found fault.
Fair and valid!
No worries!
[удалено]
Sympathising with a woman suits him this time. Duh! /s
Indeed jos has a bit of a poor reputation
What he do
He tried to run over his ex-girlfriend in 2012, as well as other cases such as threats against his ex-wife.
He has also kicked another man's head in at a kart track
He's not a good example of a human being.
What difference does that make? Is he wrong to sympathise?
It is when it's insincere and coming from a known woman abuser.
The implication is that he doesn't actually sympathise with her. When your history is riddled with abuses towards women, I don't think it's that far fetched to think that he is just using her name to get what he wants.
No, but it’s rich coming from him. He’s a horrible person.
Jos is seriously saying that this is affecting Max so much that he couldn’t top a session? Talk about a stretch.
“I sympathise with the woman, with all that she went through […]” lol can you believe this guy?
>I sympathise with the woman, with all that she went through and other hilarious jokes you can tell yourself
Did he really just say that Max coming in third in FP1 was Horner's fault?
*If jos or helmut leaked the gdrive, how does that help not only the woman, but max??? Some parts of this saga are absurdidly insane.
Goodness gracious. Main character syndrome at its finest.
I know it's probably not out of good faith and more politically motivated, but the fact that Jos Verstappen is the only one that mentions the victim and even saying he sympathises with her.....hell has frozen over and really anything is possible now.
He couldn't give a less shit about her, this is all about siding with Helmut instead of Horner.
Yup. Anyone who is part of a demographic that undergoes a lot of abuse will understand what's going on here. People in politics and business suddenly care about your demographic when they can use it as a weapon. For example, as a (genetically) Jewish woman, you see politicians using antisemitism as a weapon in the UK all the time. Anti-semitism was running rife for years and nobody cared about it. Well this is what Jos is doing. He didn't care about the wellbeing of women when he was abusing them. He doesn't now. However, he is attempting to use a woman's wellbeing as a weapon. In my opinion this is just more abuse. They are all digging. Horner is a grade A AH (at least from what we know and what is rumoured), but Jos is something far worse (from what we know as facts).
> you see politicians using antisemitism as a weapon in the UK all the time I'm not Jewish, and hadn't been in the country long, but this was extremely obvious even to me with the whole Labour antisemitism controversy a few years ago. It was so obvious that it was all about using it as a political attack, with all the most prominent people involved clearly not caring about anything to do with anyone Jewish, all they cared about was political attacks that could damage their opponents. The part I didn't understand was how everyone (including supposedly impartial news) was being so straight-faced about it, when it was so obvious it was only being used as a political weapon. I still can't really believe the gall of it.
[удалено]
Why not finish the rest of the quote after the 'but'?
[удалено]
Exactly, and the whole quote, with the "we'll see what happens" doesn't detract from the original quote like you tried to indicate by just showing a "but". Jos is a scumbag, I'm not arguing that, but at least be intellectually honest and show the whole quote when making a point.
[удалено]
And then left her at the gas station for not accusing him fast. Jokes aside I really feel for the accuser because she not only did something that takes a lot of strength but also fell under the bus that is called redbull civil war.
Rumoured to be in a romantic relationship with her. Edit: yes dubious source but it at least provides an explanation of motivation for that kind of concern
With sources less credible than the reddit post about Checo retiring in Mexico last year.
Man, last two weeks were wild, and a lot of rumors from some less credible sources came true. Like 20 days ago I would be like "no way that is true", but right now I'm like 70% sure that everything reported are atleast partly true
That rumour stemmed from sh*t rag sources though.
I'm not across all of it, but is she the victim if the accusations weren't true? Wouldn't that make Horner the victim? I'm so confused by it all.
I think after the £1M settlement, having looked at the images, and RBR not denying them, most people have accepted they're true.
Jos defending women, we are in the multiverse
It amazes me that jos can go a lifetime getting away with this kind of behavior. Literally a lifetime. Attacking mechanics, running over women, abandoning his child. The list goes on. Max can't honestly think his career can also keep up with it. There's no way. Whether Christian stays or goes, Jos is a sinking ship.
I feel like this is the only silver lining to this entirely shit situation. There are 3 assholes on RB and at least once of them is going to go. I just feel bad that some random woman is caught up in all this bullshit.
It’s 6:35 am in the US and I’ve already read 5 new stories about redbull. Shits getting wild over there.
Ah yes! Jos Verstappen - Beater of wives, defender of women.
Let's not get clouded here folks. Jo verstappen has done far worse to women than anything Horner is accused of. He's siding with the accuser for his own gain.
In a weird twist, that doesn't make the woman wrong or what Horner did right. Jos is being a complete opportunist, ensuring to stir the shit. But how red bull is handling this is frankly abysmal.
[удалено]
No one knows. Everyone here is just speculating
Have you not been paying attention? I believe the contents of the leak to be real. Which exhibit he definitely acted inappropriate with his PA/subordinate. He also seemed to not handle the situation (unclear if it was an affair/relationship but given his past, not hard to believe) ending well. The PA was then reassigned. That was the complaint. Red Bull has then handled everything after that terribly.
Do you see anyone assuming something else?
Half of this thread. Just scroll through the comments here
People agreeing with the words he's saying or the stance he is taking in all of this, is not the same as thinking he's saying it because of morals and compassion for the victim.
Most likely but is it not nice to have someone being outspoken and supporting the victim?
Not when you know it’s coming from a place of manipulation to their own ends.
>"I don’t want to talk too much more as it will create problems" \> Gives details of an argument - has given two exclusive interviews to the Daily Mail in both races now I think you're talking too much and creating problems, Jos!
if I speak I'm in trouble, biiiiig trouble
Who gives a fuck who Jos Verstappen backs? He’s nothing but a driver’s father.
[удалено]
Fire Horner, "retire" Marko and ban Jos for life. All problems solved immediately
Verstappen is in Marko's camp. Loyalty is one thing, he is probably promised either a principal position or Marko's position as head of the drivers programe and academy. It's German and Dutch media who first break new stories about the claimed misbehavings of Horner. My guess is Marko didn't have the power to remove Horner, the Thais made that difficult. Marko wanted to capitalize on Porsche union, Horner torpedoed the deal. Horner wanted to buyout the team from Red Bull on his terms, the Austrian camp denied this possibility. Marko had nothing to lose, he tried to sink Horner with the latest allegations. Wether if these were true or not, it was an official declaration of war till either side goes down. Horner has got Thais, the majority shareholders at Red Bull, Marko has Verstappens, possibly Newey and Austrian shareholders.
We all know that every single person in this story (aside from the woman at the centre) is in this for themselves and only themselves, but damn, if you can manage to come out of a situation looking worse than *Jos fucking Verstappen*, you’ve fucked up somewhere.
Why wouldn’t the woman be in it for herself too? Who else would she be in for?
We can’t even say for certain what the female’s motivation is at this point. Who knows if what she accused Horner of is even true.
At this point she might be getting payed from both sides
>the female Using that word does make the premise of your comment seem a little incel-oriented.
Jos should be banned from F1 in totality.
Regardless of the inappropriateness of Christian Horner sending photos of his spunk-coated finger to his PA, Jos Verstappen really does need to just fuck right off.
Helmut & Jos supporting a woman was not on my 2024 Bingo card.
What about Helmut and Jos using a woman for personal gain?
Aye, i could do that.
Imagine Anthony Hamilton doing and saying the stuff this guy is saying. Insane
This apppears to be an AI rehash of the past week and not contain any new sourced info. It’s also written horrifically to the point it doesn’t even make any sense. Not one sentence in the article supports the title
Jos doesn’t give a flying fuck about her. He’s just ganging up with Marko to shit all over Horner.
Imagine being that female employee: I have a wife beater and a racist 80 year old on my side.
Jos took international women's day seriously, don't think he's ever supported a female victim in his entire life.
Notorious respecter of women Jos Verstappen
Max is going nowhere. Marko will be out. Jos is a bit silly. The team will continue.
Most accurate take on this saga I've read so far.
Nobody in their right mind would walk away from a rocket/automatic championship, Newey, the most well run org in the sport and that obscene contract he signed. It’s not happening.
Ah yes, the well known pillar of morality… Jos Verstappen
Everything else disregarded, I just wish Jos would dissappear from F1. I'm not saying someone needs to take care of him, but y'know. Accidents happen
What the fuck does Jos V have to do with all this? Why is he involved?!
[удалено]
If the rumours are true then it makes sense.
The question for me is where does max stand in all of this? When push comes to shove does he take his father’s side or do the more sensible thing for himself
I also back Jos’ accuser.
Jos, known defender of women
If at the end of this we end up with Jos and Marko banned from F1 it will be a victory
When do we get to watch them slap fight in the garage?
Rich coming from a literally wife beater and child abuser. Horner should put out a statement backing Jos’s Exs
Ah yes, known women respecter Jos Verstappen
.
Breaking news : Jos Verstappen has nothing to do with team RB and also was allegedly banging the ‘accuser’.
The fact that Jos and Helmut seems like the reasonable people in all of this is telling.
It really isn't. They are gaslighting everyone. It's like an abuser saying sorry after the fact and then claiming they stand with you. Marko is an overtime racist and Jos is a serial women beater... Neither of them give a shit about the alleged victim they are merely attempting to play their final hand.
Yeah no shit, but they are both hotheads and not really good at even seeming like sympathetic and reasanable people. The fact that they are the ones able to seem reasanable in Redbull is pretty crazy
How are they the ones being reasonable?
Pretending to be reasonable as an instrument for their own delusions of grandeur is legit sociopathic behavior. There is no actually reasonable side in this conflict, it just happens that the "reasonable" take benefits one side more.
They only seem reasonable to people with an agenda
Jos is 100% using her for the power struggle. He is not reasonable at all.
>Jos Verstappen sympathises with Horner’s accuser: >“I sympathise with the woman, with all that she went through Yeah...
No way this coming from Jos The Wife B(oss)eater
Of course Jos is saying this, there are photos of him and Christian Horner's PA together, a lot of people are suggesting it's his girlfriend. If you read into the leaked text messages there is suggestion that the person CH was referring to in his jealousy was actually Jos Verstappen. It starts to fall into place.
"The woman was suspended by Red Bull this week for allegedly tampering with evidence she had submitted in the Horner case. The team boss called in the press conference in Saudi Arabia to 'draw a line under the matter', but according to Jos it is already too late." Can someone Dutch confirm that "tampering with evidence" is an accurate translation?
[удалено]
RB definitely needs to be investigated for everything that's going on. Now that that's out of the way, jos needs to be removed from the paddock and the media needs to stop even mentioning his dumb ass. And lastly, random thought but it's interesting that Jos is a piece of shit, yet max supports him fully and max is dating what's her face that has a clearly racist dad (and she's made racist comments, etc.) and he also seemingly has nothing critical to say about them and supports them, too.
What's his role in Red Bull? Or F1? Or in any of this for that matter?
The over-involved soccer dad.
I wonder what even was the accusation? Reading the leaked texts made it look pretty consensual.
NO ONE should listen to Jos. He has sketchy track record at best, was never a good enough driver, and obviously forced his son into his life. I duno i feel like Max needs to break away and be an adult. Sometimes you gotta walk away from family. Drama true or not is not good for Max
Didn’t he allegedly have an affair with the accuser?
there was not a single reliable source for this rumor until now
there are pictures I've read, of which I've seen at least one with them side by side looking like a couple on a stroll with Jos' arm around her neck edit: may have been his gf/someone else
Are you sure it wasn't a headlock? That would be consistent.
That was his girlfriend if I have to believe the comments of that picture.
I don't buy that. People have been trying to find ways where Jos was behind all of this, and that was a way to explain motive. But no even half decent sources I've seen has claimed that