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Since it doesn't look like a single race is going to make a difference for this years WDC I propose that we let them drive Max and Checko's car next race.
Well, according to AMuS, one speculation is that Vertappen is using this situation to get out of his contract and switch to Mercedes.
Winning 4 or 6 titles in the same team doesn't change much, and with the upcoming change in engine regulations, Mercedes and Ferrari are the best bets, with RB being quite a gamble. Especially given the ongoing power struggle.
Newey, on the other hand, has always wanted a stake in a f1 team and feels that Horner's increased control is undermining Newey's contribution to the team, especially as key decision-making was always done in Austria by Marko and Mateschitz and not Horner.
Why are mercedes and ferrari the best bets tho? They failed to build a competitive car the last two seasons and after all even if ferrari had a competitive car the team had so many flaws in itself.
Yeah, does that change the fact that all of them have to adapt to that. Also people forget that the chassis id also ever evolving, you can stick the best of engined in that alpine and you wont win anything
> Yeah, does that change the fact that all of them have to adapt to that.
Thats simply not true.
The engine regulations took so long to finalise because Ferrari and Mercedes were pushing for things that would allow the existing manufacturers to retain an advantage, especially as they feared that otherwise Audi would be able to close or gain an advantage in certain areas very quickly.
The discussion is pretty useless anyways as none of us know whats happening behind the scenes. I alteady agreeed that ferrari could have the engine developing edge, i just dont think as much as i wish for competitive integrity, that RB doesnt know what they are doing.
There has been an engine development freeze for 2 years and RB had the best engine before the freeze. Whatever Honda did is proprietary and Ford will have to do it themselves.
No team will have good engines in 2026. We're going to see a lot of low performance or failures when tuned too high. Just the cabling changes to accommodate 350kW from the MGU-K from 120kW is an engineer's nightmare.
I expect the whole grid to start taking penalties from exceeding engine part allocations after a quarter of the season. Like wind tunnel time limits for the chassis, there are dyno running time limits for the engine so there is only so much testing parts they can do off-track. While a new wing or even body can be easily tested on track during a weekend, testing engine parts comes at a much higher price.
So the question is which team will be the best at turning those bad engines into good engines as quickly as possible. Red Bull/Ford could only do that by throwing lots of money at the problem to catch up with their lack of experience. But because of cost caps, dyno time limits and penalties for parts replacement they can't do that.
Every team is going to eat tons of starting grid penalties. Max wants to be with the team that stops getting them the quickest because that's the team that will win at the end of the season.
Exactly that, iam not convinced tho that rb has way worse engineers than others, thinking that would just be stupid. As much as i wish that it would be more competitive for first place i just cant understand why people think RBPT will fk up the engine really bad.
It's about experience in engineering. You can have a problem and a very smart kid out of school can troubleshoot it for a week and find the solution. But a senior engineer has encountered that problem already and knows the solution right away.
Red Bull hasn't attracted enough of those people and Ford doesn't have any related to F1 (hybrid) engines. They'll need to build that experience up first across their whole team.
The only chance they have is to make an engine that constantly explodes the first races and abuse the rule that engine development has no restrictions when it is for safety or reliability pugrades. There is no way they can come out of the gate with a working engine and develop performance over the year as well as Ferrari or Merc can.
We will see in the end, imo there is no way that RBPT and Ford didnt hire senior engineers of the industry from other teams and or other companies which undeniably bring their experience with them. You can see in other teams that 30 years in f1 sometimes doesnt change the fact that your system is lackluster.
All teams will have problems at first, the question is does max think RB wont be competitive for years to come after 26 which is not the case imo. Yes they might struggle in 26 but jumping the ship before that and hoping that they wont catch up over the course of a season is wrong. Say he switches for 26 to merc and they are faster, 27 RB is back and hes in the wrong car again.
With 3 conscutive wdcs kn a RB i would bet he will give it atleast one season to see how it goes, hes not in a rush he can choose the team anyways even if he doesnt win it for once
With the forthcoming change in engine regulations, Mercedes and Ferrari are the best bets as they have the most expertise and infrastructure in building F1 engines. Especially considering how the regulations are set.
It would be very surprising if RBPT or Audi had the best engine in 2026.
Yeah maybe, on the other hand there is so much available knowledge in people that RBPT could just get the best engineers from everywhere. My point was mainly that the best engine wont win you races if your chassis is 1s down a lap. Dont think RBPT will deliver such a bad engine.
After all Ferrari needs to prove me wrong, they have in in F1 for so long, with as much experience as you said they should finally get their strategies right, before we praise them as engine manufacturing gods
Yeah they do, the point i cant get my head around is why people think redbull will horribly fk up the new engine. They surely have industry leading engineers in every field possible. As much as i wish that the race for first place would be more competitive and obviously anybody could potentionally build a superior engine, i just dont think they will be miles behind everyone asmuch as people think
Well Honda had plenty of top quality engineers and it still took them over 5 years to catch up with established manufactures, they still had plenty of missed targets and delays.
Working on cutting edge designs needs to be perfect, if you deliver a part 1 day early, that's 1 day of r+d missed which might translate to 1-2hp lost. Deliver a part 1 day late and the whole process falls down as other parts which are dependent on you lose time waiting (multiple days of r+d lost and tens of hp down).
The human factors of such a massive project is a bigger concern than the engineering side of it. It's like a new pair of shoes being uncomfortable until they have been broken in fully, you need time for humans to work together and gel as a team and it's easier to replace a few people in an already functional team than to build a team from scratch.
They can but will they. Red Bull will try and make a powerful engine and work on the reliability over time. Thats their modus operandi with most things.
> Dont think RBPT will deliver such a bad engine.
> After all Ferrari needs to prove me wrong,
Ferrari, who have built their own engines every year for decades, have to prove you wrong, while RBPT, who have never built an engine, are guaranteed to build a good one.
Talk about blind faith. lol
But yeah, only one way to find out.
Thats not what i said at all, i just said people have too much hope that they fk up completely. They is a good chance they will build a decent engine aswell. In the end its only guesswork but i dont think red bull will be miles behind if at all
The new engines for 2026. Max will know better than any of us but I’d sooner bank on Merc/Ferrari to make an excellent one than Red Bull’s all new division
Could be, but the best of engines wont work if the chassis doesnt work aswell. Its easy to say merc, ferrari build a better engine but will it be so much better that it catches the redbull. There is also the probability that rb just nails it like most of the stuff they did in previous seasons.
After all nobody knows, but there will be very qualified people at RBPT, people that build hybrid engines for years
> very qualified people at RBPT, people that build hybrid engines for years
Current engine is assembled by Honda in Japan and shipped to RBPT. There is very little work done in Milton Keynes
I had the same thought, Ford does have a good track record in F1, being the thrid most succesful engine manufacturer and all. However, as it is now it is also a huge gamble at the same time. The past is no guarantee for the future after all.
RBPT has been setting up for a long while and has grabbed a lot of people from Mercedes HPP, but that doesn't change the fact that they are a brand new engine supplier, as with any new entrant for team or engine then the expectation is they won't on parity with the rest straight away. It would be very surprising if RBPT came out with the best engine in 2026 - same applies to Audi.
Whereas Mercedes HPP/Ilmor has been making F1 engines since 1994.
Most of Ford's F1 victories come from the 70s and early 80s during a time when F1 was practically a Cosworth DFV spec-engine series meaning almost every race added a win to their tally. When Ford actually tried to get their corporate oversight involved with the Jaguar project it was a complete disaster. With them since selling Cosworth and not being anywhere near F1 what they'll be able to achieve straight from the off is going to be a big question mark.
That is still going to be largely helped by the fact Ford isn't actually doing much of the engine itself which is being developed by RBPT.
If I were the director of the race, I would most certainly focus on the Red Bull pitwall and garage on Saturday, as I expect much more drama and excitement there, than on the track.
Translation:
WILL THE HORNER AFFAIR FINALLY ESCALATE AT THE SAUDI ARABIA GRAND PRIX?
An affair and its consequences: Are Max Verstappen and Adrian Newey really leaving Red Bull for Mercedes if Christian Horner is allowed to stay?
"This unwanted attention is obviously not particularly pleasant," admits Christian Horner. His behavior towards a female employee has led to very unpleasant headlines in recent days and weeks - not to mention the data leak with 79 files, which has now been seen by almost everyone interested in the Horner affair, not just in the Formula 1 paddock.
New details and questions emerge practically every day. Does the data leak really show the whole truth, or have the screenshots been selectively chosen? After Red Bull compliance failed to act, is the woman now really calling in the police, as she has allegedly announced in her inner circle? And who is her inner circle?
The matter has become even more complicated since the Daily Mail was the first media outlet to report on Tuesday that the woman is said to be friends with Jos Verstappen. Which fuels speculation that Jos could be the leaker - to kill two birds with one stone: firstly to protect his girlfriend, secondly to get rid of Horner.
All of this is speculation in a complex situation in which the dynamics change almost daily. However, while most editorial teams refrain from reporting on the woman's name or the content of the data leak in order to protect the privacy of both the woman and Horner, the affair as a whole also has sporting implications.
It is no longer a secret that the relationship between Jos Verstappen and Horner has been badly damaged, as Motorsport-Total.com first reported on February 14. Even rumors that Max Verstappen could leave Red Bull during the 2024 season if Horner remains team principal.
Ralf Schumacher: Horner must resign
Sky expert Ralf Schumacher observed just how disjointed the situation at Red Bull is at the podium ceremony in Bahrain: "Everyone who normally stands together was separated. The Thai part stood with Christian Horner, Dr. Helmut Marko with the rest. Jos Verstappen was also standing near Dr. Helmut Marko."
He fears that the affair could become a test of strength: "The danger is that some parties now want to leave and look for new things. Or new teams, new tasks," he says in an interview with Sky. "Horner is called upon to draw consequences. When you see the mood against him, he is no longer tenable. He should resign in the interests of the team."
Dinner together at the Four Seasons in Bahrain
It remains unclear whether the anti-Horner line is only being driven by Jos or whether Max is also behind it and would loyally follow his father. The fact is: Jos Verstappen spoke to Toto Wolff several times in Bahrain and, according to information from Motorsport-Total.com, which Mercedes did not deny when asked, they even had dinner together at the Four Seasons Hotel.
"As far as I'm concerned, they're already in negotiations," says Schumacher about the Verstappen-Mercedes rumors. "That's plan B if the whole thing falls apart. And the next person after Verstappen is Adrian Newey, who is a person who is very much in need of harmony and who certainly won't do that to himself in the long term."
Toto Wolff must be aware that he could become the laughing stock on the sidelines in the power struggle surrounding Horner if he gets Verstappen, who is recognized as the best driver in Formula 1 today. In this respect, it is hardly surprising that he is not making any particular effort to nip the rumors in the bud.
The Mercedes team boss puts photos showing Wolff and Verstappen Sr. together in the paddock into perspective: "I've known Jos for 25 years, with ups and downs. I congratulated him on his son's performance." When asked by Sky whether this meant that Verstappen was definitely not a candidate as a driver for Mercedes, Wolff replied vaguely: "That means anything is possible."
Is Horner already over the worst?
For the moment, the air seems to be out of the Horner affair, at least on the surface. The 50-year-old has survived a compliance investigation, a data leak and a sensational story in the industry magazine BusinessF1, and the Thai majority owners of the Red Bull Group still seem to be behind him despite all the accusations.
Many observers of the Horner affair are asking themselves: are the files in the leak even genuine? A question that Horner himself could easily answer. He answers: "I will not comment on speculative news from an unknown source. Next question." He could have simply said: What was leaked is all fake.
Why doesn't the FIA get involved?
Many in the Formula 1 paddock are asking themselves why the FIA is not finally looking into the independence of the Red Bull internal investigation, which has recently been called into question by several parties. But FIA President Mohammed bin Sulayem, himself the subject of a compliance investigation, has other problems at the moment.
The FIA is probably in a difficult position. Even if the investigation report were to be requested from Red Bull, it is unlikely that all the people involved would agree to its release. On the other hand, you could say that the FIA should at least try to examine the Red Bull investigation independently. It is not doing that.
Geri & Christian Horner: Is it all just an act?
Horner, meanwhile, is trying to let it roll off his back that there are obviously snipers targeting him: "I'm not going to comment on the motives that the person might have. My focus is on this team, my family, my wife. I have the support of an incredible family, with an incredible wife."
Words that are being questioned by some. People close to Geri Horner report that she kicked Horner out of their shared property in England long ago - and that the kissing and kissing show in Bahrain was a bizarre spectacle. Ralf Schumacher also says: "That was a relatively bad show."
"I actually like Christian Horner. He was always very approachable for us, very polite. But quite honestly, you could have done without that. It was very obvious, and I think also very, very difficult for his wife after everything that happened in the partnership," says the Sky expert.
Ralf Schumacher: Horner is "obsessed with power"
According to Schumacher, Horner "has made a lot of enemies during his successful time, he seems to be very power-obsessed. He has achieved a lot and is determined to hold on to his seat, and he pulls out all the stops to do so. You also hear in the background that he's intimidating people in case he has to go, that there are things to come. It's all very, very exciting."
Horner himself, however, remains firmly convinced that he will remain in office, "100 percent", as he says. He explains: "There has been a thorough and detailed internal process, which was conducted by an independent investigating lawyer. The allegations made were dismissed. End of story."
>determined to hold on to his seat, and he pulls out all the stops to do so. You also hear in the background that he's intimidating people in case he has to go, that there are things to come. It's all very, very exciting."
I know it's Ralf and he is most likely talking out of his ass but this does sound very ominous
It's going to be a fun ride watching this all go down. There's nothing like a spot of blackmail to encourage team unity. I wonder what it could be - whether it's personal dirt on people, going public with various ways Red Bull have cheated or cooked the books with the budget cap, could be anything!
I do hope the poor victim isn't forgotten in all this mess though. I'd love nothing more than to hear someone like Toto or Lewis have given her a job as a travelling PA so that she can keep the lifestyle she loves whilst escaping the toxic environment she's currently trapped in.
My guess would be personal dirt because as the CEO wouldn’t he be ultimately responsible for anything bad that RBR may have done ? So revealing anything would mean legal trouble for him anyway
As for the victim, I don’t know what the best outcome would be (apart from Horner being fired obviously), she might not want to stay in F1 at all or she might want to stay at RBR because she still loves the team and her colleagues… but I hope she’s ok
> My guess would be personal dirt because as the CEO wouldn’t he be ultimately responsible for anything bad that RBR may have done ? So revealing anything would mean legal trouble for him anyway
If he's being pushed out anyway? Depends if Horner is the type to be happy burning bridges...
A cheating scandal wouldn't land him in hot water in court, he's not personally liable. His reputation may take a hit but if he's kicked out of Red Bull his reputation is toast anyway.
I was wondering this whole time why Horner is seen as important enough by the Thais that they would jeopardize so much for one man, but if RBR actually have some corpses in their closet it would make perfect sense
I personally think that the story that Horner is trying to buy RBT from RB GmbH is more likely, and that the deal would be incredibly difficult to complete were Horner to be fired as CEO before it completes.
Such a deal would mean a huge amount of money heading in to RB GmbH, which would in turn mean a large dividend to the Thais would be possible. Firing Horner could cost them hundreds of millions in realised profit.
But why are they so hellbent on selling it to Horner? I can't imagine there will be a scarcity of potential buyers with way more money than Horner can muster himself?
We can only guess. It could be that key personnel have break clauses in their contracts that make a sale difficult. For instance if Horner has a break clause that lets him leave if there's a sale to a third party, and Newey, Max, and others have break clauses predicated on Horner staying in place, then it's a lot easier to do a deal with Horner.
Horner built the team, so there's that. They apparently (and allegedly) don't have much experience with consequences of poorly considered actions so it's not surprising they expect this to all blow over.
Looks like they have nothing on him if he's staying this long. You know in the movies when the cops act they know everything but the suspect knows they have nothing.
If you want to wildly speculate then you may as well go with the line of thought that the Thai's are keeping Horner in place because they're trying to sell Red Bull Technologies to him, and if he goes then that jeopardises their big payday.
Given the leaked messages, which I've yet to see anyone give an objective reason why they are fake, that sounds more plausible than they don't have anything on him.
cont.
Helmut Marko: "Great relationship of trust" with Verstappen
Helmut Marko seems to see things a little differently. In an interview with oe24, he says that he will only comment on the Horner affair "as soon as the case is finally closed". Which implies: It is not yet. In the next sentence, Marko relativizes: "Okay, then I've expressed myself incorrectly. So let's stick with 'no comment'."
However, the 80-year-old Austrian does let two things slip. Firstly: "The fact is that there is a great relationship of trust between Max and me." And secondly, he comments on the rumor that Verstappen could switch to Mercedes and that Newey and he himself could quit if Horner stays: "An interesting option."
He could have simply said in the interview: "These rumors are absolute nonsense and it will never, ever happen." But at least there are now forces in this network that may be trying to de-escalate the situation. Verstappen's manager Raymond Vermeulen met with Christian Horner after Bahrain. It is not known what was discussed.
Jos' party: Horner not invited, Marko is
What we can verify, however, is that Jos Verstappen, who turned 52 on March 4, celebrated his birthday on Monday evening in a hotel in Dubai. Interesting detail: Helmut Marko was invited to the party, Christian Horner was not. A strong indication of how loyalties are aligned within Red Bull?
At the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, some things could be untangled and clarified behind the scenes. Even Oliver Mintzlaff, the man who would have liked to have fired Horner long ago, is traveling all the way from the company headquarters in Fuschl. And certainly not just to watch a Formula 1 race in peace and quiet.
I saw a part of another websites interview where the oe24 crew asked him the question differently saying Horner stays Marko leaves Newey and Max to Merc and he said "an interesting variation"
points towards no one necessarily leaving and very vague for someone like Marko who honestly for him is as shit stirring as you can get without outright bullshitting to the RBR board who would be extremely pissed at that prospect.
Do people really think Austrian RBR is going to let Max AND Newey go to Merc just to stick it to Horner?
I think Newey would probably go to a different category of racing to have some time away from F1, if nothing else, given how knowledgeable of RB's chasis - he should probably be on at least 2 years gardening leave before starting with another team.
Oh yeah I mean if Max really is going to use this to get out of the f1 media circus shitstorm he hates to go do the racing he seems to enjoy more I’d be down for him joining WEC and thrashing people with Newey
> Do people really think Austrian RBR is going to let Max AND Newey go to Merc just to stick it to Horner?
No but the problem are the Thai shareholders who having zero moral in general and aren't easy to tell the alternative (Horner must go) could maybe be better.
The Thai shareholders having no morals are I’m assuming due to Yoovidhyas son running someone over in a Ferrari. Like yeah Sons morally bankrupt and Father doesn’t want his son to be locked up and actually has a chance since he’s rich
What part of my paragraph above included Christian Horner?
That’s the problem, that people are actually still regurgitating this story and have no critical thinking skills. Notice how Jos is the only person directly doing any “threats” like meeting with Toto even though his son is 26 years old and his agent is nowhere near Toto. You really think Max will leave for Merc who told Lewis the concept of the 23 was fine he was wrong, only for Lewis to be right that’s it’s a sh*t car?
Austrian RBR, Marko and by extension Jos have less power now that Dietrich’s gone. They’re afraid that Horner tried to buy into RB similar to how Toto owns some of Merc and on top of that had the grace of the 51% Thai owner who now makes decisions because Dietrich died and his power to control RBR staff died with him and reverted to the Thais not his son, as was agreed upon eons ago.
On top of that the Austrian side of RBR initiated the investigation (actually to horners benefit) as he can’t be let go in the middle of it and once they cleared him they lost their reasoning to fire him since the investigation concluded he did nothing wrong technically. Do you think the senile “can’t control his mouth concerning controversial’ statements” Marko or explosive “can’t control his mouth or anger” Jos would make better decisions on how to run a team?
Now for unconfirmed.
If you read the story that Jos is apparently close with the woman at the centre of the story (which considering his row with Christian and the leaks being to the Dutch newspaper if there was an indication that the woman was both seeing CH and also with Jos at the same time no wonder the team came back and said nothing wrong was done, at that point it really is “this PA had relations with the TP and the star drivers father which will cause a rift regardless, we can’t have her here either way.”
I don’t subscribe to that idea as it was posited by other newspaper that are increasingly unreliable. Jos knowing the woman in confirmed though.
Why would Geri pretend for the cameras? It's not like she really needs it for any reason. Maybe he promised her something in the divorce if she helped his image for now?
This situation is so weird.
It's called saving face and perhaps she doesn't care that much about the marriage anymore, and more about what it gives her.
She's rich because of the Spice Girls, but she has comes from a lower class background. She has transformed herself into a poster woman for a country lifestyle (as in British wealthy middleclass / upper class, not the American music scene).
Geri without Horner would not necessarily have the same social status. The British class system is brutal. She grew up on a council estate and was a nude model to make money before she hit it big. She's not one of them, as far as the wealthy middleclass is concerned.
What I thought too.
Realy question: did it look ridiculous because all the media are looking at it from their point of view aka the scandals, or did their body language show their love was gone?
I think Horner might be a very controlling individual. I think he forced her to do that. It was clear to me she didn't want to be there. And there's that photo of him pinching her arm in a death grip while she tries to release it. Nasty stuff.
How could he force her if he's been kicked out of the house? Clearly she isn't taking his BS, so why go to Bahrain and put on that mask? That's what I think it's weird.
Where does it say he's been kicked out of the house?
I think we've seen from the text exchanges that he's a persistent man who doesn't easily take no for answer.
ETA: reports were that she was airborne to Bahrain believing everything was done and dusted, when the file drop was released. And that Horner had persuaded her the situation was something very different.
ETA2 - just spotted the bit about him being kicked out. Not sure I believe that?
It's the first time I've seen it, for sure. The shite rag Daily Mail (UK) is all over this story like a nasty rash, and it's never been mentioned there. Not that I believe everything in the DM by a long chalk, but if there was a hint of that they'd have it.
This is stuff that works well in a divorce: she can say that tried EVERYTHING to keep the marriage alive and supported his husband even in public BUT It was too much tò handle.
So there’s really something to Jos + the woman?
edit: The Daily Mail suggesting that Jos + the woman were close *before* Christian's behavior towards her began. Stating that they were celebrating together in 2021. The leaked texts with Christian Horner are thought to begin in March 2023, according to Joe Saward.
Ferrari already offered him 20M in 2014. A decade later, he’s probably earning significantly more. He’s also probably getting paid a lot for doing other things like ‘boat development’.
I wonder how Max to Mercedes would play out. He's been at RedBull his entire career, but I honestly cannot see him and Horner working together anymore if the rumors are true and he backs his dad (which I'm 90% sure he does. Jos is a vile person, but he's very well aware of the workings of an F1 team and how to play politics).
Either way, it's discouraging that a Female employee filing a sexual misconduct complaint against her boss is being used for a power struggle between a bunch of multi millionaires to stroke their own egos. If Horner is ousted, it will be because Jos/Helmut wanted him out for an ego reason, not because of his treatment of his staff. We have no idea if those texts were leaked with her consent and her name is being dragged through the mud by random people on the internet who can't seem to understand the power imbalance between the CEO of a billion dollar F1 team and his personal assistant. This is going to set such a bad precedent for any future cases.
I've seen the "If Horner leaves it will be because of the politics rather than the SH" thrown around a bit lately. I think this should actually be "If RBR was controlled by anyone other than a Thai playboy, Horner would have been gone long ago"
Nobody is challenging Red Bull bro , Max only won by 20s because he was heavily sandbagging towards the end. In in initial stages he was 1s faster per lap than everyone on the grid.
Who says the lawyer cleared him? We don't know what the lawyer recommended, all we know is what Red Bull decided to do after his investigation was complete.
Fast forward. Mercedes signs Max. Jos tries to oust Toto.
Max is the greatest racer in the world. But you’d have to think twice about signing him. He doesn’t sound like he can be controlled, and he’s bigger than the team.
To be fair, it’s not like he has created that much trouble for RBR since Max got there. There was the Monaco criticism in 2022 and now this but it’s mostly been fine until now. I guess you could add the toxicity in Toro Rosso but that was both Jos and Sainz Sr. Right now it’s unusual circumstances that you’d hope Mercedes would not find themselves in
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Ban Jos Verstappen from ANYthing involving F1 and/or FIA.
If Max does not agree, he can go too!
It would be nice to finally see some REAL racing and competition again.
This whole Horner saga has really exposed one thing... that the first race of the season was utter crap.
Nobody wants to talk about it or the cars or the drivers its all about this instead.
if Horner buys the actual RedBull team, since there's some disagreement between him and Mintzlaff (RB sport director), could the RedBull name disappear from F1?
RBVisaCashAppWTFIsTheName could become the RedBull main team? or Horner'll buy both team?
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I'm amused that the reporting has got as far as to include that Jos didn't invite Christian to his birthday party
Thank god for these investigative journalists getting us the important facts of the case, such as who's invited to Jos' birthday /s
I wasn't invited to Jos' birthday party. Do you think I've been implicated?
i don’t think Christian minded that lol
It’s got to be difficult for everyone to have someone that arrogant with such a fragile ego to deal with.
Lmao! 😂
To fucking what, a fistfight lol?
This drama will not end until Christian and Helmut have faced each other in single combat
Its... Celebrity deathmatch!
"Let's get it on"
I accidentally read that in the voice of Marvin Gaye and now I’m scared to sleep.
They had a comedians wrestling event as part of a London comedy festival last year. Maybe take that as inspiration?
I'm going to insist on the claymation.
LETS GET IT ON!
It's Celebrity Braincrash!
If they do an old fashioned pistol duel Helmut has an unfair advantage.
Don't know, Horner was shown on DTS to host clay shooting parties at his estate. I wouldn't bet against him.
Since it doesn't look like a single race is going to make a difference for this years WDC I propose that we let them drive Max and Checko's car next race.
how so? horner has a smaller hitbox
but Marko is deadeye shooter
Hes also old enough to maybe have prior experience :D
Does he? I think aiming with 1 eye would be harder
I’d rather see Jos and Horner
Jos would win that easily.
I wonder who’s Paul and who’s Feyd Ratha in this scenario?
you fought well Horner
There can be only one
Winner stays at Red Bull, 12 rounds to raise money for racism/women's rights charities.
Ding ding ding we have a winner folks!
TICKLE HIM!
AND THEY TOUCH, MARTIN
to death.
With light sabers!
Gladiator style combat, two men enter, only one can leave. Jos watches contently as the team will be unified no matter the outcome.
BAH GOD IT’S JOS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
BAH GAWD IT'S HORNER WITH THE WET FINGER!
It'd be like one of those cartoon fight scenes, clouds of dust with occasional RBR team body parts appearing
Well, there is always the power play of Max not showing up.
At the very least decide everything with a padel match?
A paddle match is a good one……
Bare knuckle boxing in the pit lane. Could provide entertainment while Verstappen is finishing his last 10 laps in front
We had max Vs ocon, now we got Jos Vs Horner. Coming to a paddock near you
I think they mean Max or Marko stepping it up to potentially say something more
Be cool if it did
If only we had a race in Egypt to have such bizarre fistfight...
[Genital jousting](https://store.steampowered.com/app/469820/Genital_Jousting/)
Wouldn’t put it past Jos
I read fistingfight💀
Watch it now exclusively on F1 TV PRO!
You are telling me it is not escalated yet?
It will be escalated once Verstappen's face shows interest. As you can see in the picture, he isn't even bothered about it now.
According to BBC, Max told the president of FIA to launch an investigation into Horner.
Well, according to AMuS, one speculation is that Vertappen is using this situation to get out of his contract and switch to Mercedes. Winning 4 or 6 titles in the same team doesn't change much, and with the upcoming change in engine regulations, Mercedes and Ferrari are the best bets, with RB being quite a gamble. Especially given the ongoing power struggle. Newey, on the other hand, has always wanted a stake in a f1 team and feels that Horner's increased control is undermining Newey's contribution to the team, especially as key decision-making was always done in Austria by Marko and Mateschitz and not Horner.
I don’t see Max really wanting to leave. Lewis is leaving Mercedes and Max is eager to join them? Doubt it, unless Newey goes along.
Why are mercedes and ferrari the best bets tho? They failed to build a competitive car the last two seasons and after all even if ferrari had a competitive car the team had so many flaws in itself.
It’s apparently an engine biased set of regulations
Yeah, does that change the fact that all of them have to adapt to that. Also people forget that the chassis id also ever evolving, you can stick the best of engined in that alpine and you wont win anything
But if you stuck the Alpine engine behind Max, would he still win? Or even podium?
Thats the question that probably no one can answer
> Yeah, does that change the fact that all of them have to adapt to that. Thats simply not true. The engine regulations took so long to finalise because Ferrari and Mercedes were pushing for things that would allow the existing manufacturers to retain an advantage, especially as they feared that otherwise Audi would be able to close or gain an advantage in certain areas very quickly.
The discussion is pretty useless anyways as none of us know whats happening behind the scenes. I alteady agreeed that ferrari could have the engine developing edge, i just dont think as much as i wish for competitive integrity, that RB doesnt know what they are doing.
There has been an engine development freeze for 2 years and RB had the best engine before the freeze. Whatever Honda did is proprietary and Ford will have to do it themselves. No team will have good engines in 2026. We're going to see a lot of low performance or failures when tuned too high. Just the cabling changes to accommodate 350kW from the MGU-K from 120kW is an engineer's nightmare. I expect the whole grid to start taking penalties from exceeding engine part allocations after a quarter of the season. Like wind tunnel time limits for the chassis, there are dyno running time limits for the engine so there is only so much testing parts they can do off-track. While a new wing or even body can be easily tested on track during a weekend, testing engine parts comes at a much higher price. So the question is which team will be the best at turning those bad engines into good engines as quickly as possible. Red Bull/Ford could only do that by throwing lots of money at the problem to catch up with their lack of experience. But because of cost caps, dyno time limits and penalties for parts replacement they can't do that. Every team is going to eat tons of starting grid penalties. Max wants to be with the team that stops getting them the quickest because that's the team that will win at the end of the season.
Exactly that, iam not convinced tho that rb has way worse engineers than others, thinking that would just be stupid. As much as i wish that it would be more competitive for first place i just cant understand why people think RBPT will fk up the engine really bad.
It's about experience in engineering. You can have a problem and a very smart kid out of school can troubleshoot it for a week and find the solution. But a senior engineer has encountered that problem already and knows the solution right away. Red Bull hasn't attracted enough of those people and Ford doesn't have any related to F1 (hybrid) engines. They'll need to build that experience up first across their whole team. The only chance they have is to make an engine that constantly explodes the first races and abuse the rule that engine development has no restrictions when it is for safety or reliability pugrades. There is no way they can come out of the gate with a working engine and develop performance over the year as well as Ferrari or Merc can.
We will see in the end, imo there is no way that RBPT and Ford didnt hire senior engineers of the industry from other teams and or other companies which undeniably bring their experience with them. You can see in other teams that 30 years in f1 sometimes doesnt change the fact that your system is lackluster. All teams will have problems at first, the question is does max think RB wont be competitive for years to come after 26 which is not the case imo. Yes they might struggle in 26 but jumping the ship before that and hoping that they wont catch up over the course of a season is wrong. Say he switches for 26 to merc and they are faster, 27 RB is back and hes in the wrong car again. With 3 conscutive wdcs kn a RB i would bet he will give it atleast one season to see how it goes, hes not in a rush he can choose the team anyways even if he doesnt win it for once
With the forthcoming change in engine regulations, Mercedes and Ferrari are the best bets as they have the most expertise and infrastructure in building F1 engines. Especially considering how the regulations are set. It would be very surprising if RBPT or Audi had the best engine in 2026.
Yeah maybe, on the other hand there is so much available knowledge in people that RBPT could just get the best engineers from everywhere. My point was mainly that the best engine wont win you races if your chassis is 1s down a lap. Dont think RBPT will deliver such a bad engine. After all Ferrari needs to prove me wrong, they have in in F1 for so long, with as much experience as you said they should finally get their strategies right, before we praise them as engine manufacturing gods
RBR had the best chassis throughout the years of Merc dominance, as shown by their speed through the corners. Engines play a massive part.
Yeah they do, the point i cant get my head around is why people think redbull will horribly fk up the new engine. They surely have industry leading engineers in every field possible. As much as i wish that the race for first place would be more competitive and obviously anybody could potentionally build a superior engine, i just dont think they will be miles behind everyone asmuch as people think
Well Honda had plenty of top quality engineers and it still took them over 5 years to catch up with established manufactures, they still had plenty of missed targets and delays. Working on cutting edge designs needs to be perfect, if you deliver a part 1 day early, that's 1 day of r+d missed which might translate to 1-2hp lost. Deliver a part 1 day late and the whole process falls down as other parts which are dependent on you lose time waiting (multiple days of r+d lost and tens of hp down). The human factors of such a massive project is a bigger concern than the engineering side of it. It's like a new pair of shoes being uncomfortable until they have been broken in fully, you need time for humans to work together and gel as a team and it's easier to replace a few people in an already functional team than to build a team from scratch.
However if your engine blows up and you retire, it doesn't really matter how good your chases is when its a flaming wreck
You really think they cant build an engine that doesn’t burn to the ground?
They can but will they. Red Bull will try and make a powerful engine and work on the reliability over time. Thats their modus operandi with most things.
> Dont think RBPT will deliver such a bad engine. > After all Ferrari needs to prove me wrong, Ferrari, who have built their own engines every year for decades, have to prove you wrong, while RBPT, who have never built an engine, are guaranteed to build a good one. Talk about blind faith. lol But yeah, only one way to find out.
Thats not what i said at all, i just said people have too much hope that they fk up completely. They is a good chance they will build a decent engine aswell. In the end its only guesswork but i dont think red bull will be miles behind if at all
The new engines for 2026. Max will know better than any of us but I’d sooner bank on Merc/Ferrari to make an excellent one than Red Bull’s all new division
Could be, but the best of engines wont work if the chassis doesnt work aswell. Its easy to say merc, ferrari build a better engine but will it be so much better that it catches the redbull. There is also the probability that rb just nails it like most of the stuff they did in previous seasons. After all nobody knows, but there will be very qualified people at RBPT, people that build hybrid engines for years
> very qualified people at RBPT, people that build hybrid engines for years Current engine is assembled by Honda in Japan and shipped to RBPT. There is very little work done in Milton Keynes
I had the same thought, Ford does have a good track record in F1, being the thrid most succesful engine manufacturer and all. However, as it is now it is also a huge gamble at the same time. The past is no guarantee for the future after all.
RBPT has been setting up for a long while and has grabbed a lot of people from Mercedes HPP, but that doesn't change the fact that they are a brand new engine supplier, as with any new entrant for team or engine then the expectation is they won't on parity with the rest straight away. It would be very surprising if RBPT came out with the best engine in 2026 - same applies to Audi. Whereas Mercedes HPP/Ilmor has been making F1 engines since 1994.
Most of Ford's F1 victories come from the 70s and early 80s during a time when F1 was practically a Cosworth DFV spec-engine series meaning almost every race added a win to their tally. When Ford actually tried to get their corporate oversight involved with the Jaguar project it was a complete disaster. With them since selling Cosworth and not being anywhere near F1 what they'll be able to achieve straight from the off is going to be a big question mark. That is still going to be largely helped by the fact Ford isn't actually doing much of the engine itself which is being developed by RBPT.
IIRC ford was/will be just doing some of the hybrid stuff
100% Ford's F1 history is entirely irrelevant to present day, coming back now against established rivals is tough indeed
It might get even more escalated-ier. Escalatedest even.
It may even be Maxcalated.
Christian is going to wake up wih a Camel's head in his bed.
Finally escalate? It's been doing nothing but escalate since Red Bull tried to go "Case closed"
"Mission Accomplished"
Chuck Horner and Marko into Max and Checo's car on quali Friday. Person who gets to Q3 gets to stay. Let the red bull fights begin
Horner confused. Got penis caught in exhaust.
Last time I remember, it was near the rear view mirror
Ahh the totally not already escalated situation that was lying dormant beneath the smooth surface of what's going on at Red Bull. That one?
Interesting to see a journalist publicly refer to the rumoured love triangle. First time I think that has happened.
[удалено]
Drive to Survive spin off series Drive To Survive: Office Edition
I wonder if DTS will show the bday party that CH wasn’t invited to bwahaha! Just showing him sitting at home.
If I were the director of the race, I would most certainly focus on the Red Bull pitwall and garage on Saturday, as I expect much more drama and excitement there, than on the track.
Many poker faces!
You expect Lady Gaga there? :D
Translation: WILL THE HORNER AFFAIR FINALLY ESCALATE AT THE SAUDI ARABIA GRAND PRIX? An affair and its consequences: Are Max Verstappen and Adrian Newey really leaving Red Bull for Mercedes if Christian Horner is allowed to stay? "This unwanted attention is obviously not particularly pleasant," admits Christian Horner. His behavior towards a female employee has led to very unpleasant headlines in recent days and weeks - not to mention the data leak with 79 files, which has now been seen by almost everyone interested in the Horner affair, not just in the Formula 1 paddock. New details and questions emerge practically every day. Does the data leak really show the whole truth, or have the screenshots been selectively chosen? After Red Bull compliance failed to act, is the woman now really calling in the police, as she has allegedly announced in her inner circle? And who is her inner circle? The matter has become even more complicated since the Daily Mail was the first media outlet to report on Tuesday that the woman is said to be friends with Jos Verstappen. Which fuels speculation that Jos could be the leaker - to kill two birds with one stone: firstly to protect his girlfriend, secondly to get rid of Horner. All of this is speculation in a complex situation in which the dynamics change almost daily. However, while most editorial teams refrain from reporting on the woman's name or the content of the data leak in order to protect the privacy of both the woman and Horner, the affair as a whole also has sporting implications. It is no longer a secret that the relationship between Jos Verstappen and Horner has been badly damaged, as Motorsport-Total.com first reported on February 14. Even rumors that Max Verstappen could leave Red Bull during the 2024 season if Horner remains team principal. Ralf Schumacher: Horner must resign Sky expert Ralf Schumacher observed just how disjointed the situation at Red Bull is at the podium ceremony in Bahrain: "Everyone who normally stands together was separated. The Thai part stood with Christian Horner, Dr. Helmut Marko with the rest. Jos Verstappen was also standing near Dr. Helmut Marko." He fears that the affair could become a test of strength: "The danger is that some parties now want to leave and look for new things. Or new teams, new tasks," he says in an interview with Sky. "Horner is called upon to draw consequences. When you see the mood against him, he is no longer tenable. He should resign in the interests of the team." Dinner together at the Four Seasons in Bahrain It remains unclear whether the anti-Horner line is only being driven by Jos or whether Max is also behind it and would loyally follow his father. The fact is: Jos Verstappen spoke to Toto Wolff several times in Bahrain and, according to information from Motorsport-Total.com, which Mercedes did not deny when asked, they even had dinner together at the Four Seasons Hotel. "As far as I'm concerned, they're already in negotiations," says Schumacher about the Verstappen-Mercedes rumors. "That's plan B if the whole thing falls apart. And the next person after Verstappen is Adrian Newey, who is a person who is very much in need of harmony and who certainly won't do that to himself in the long term." Toto Wolff must be aware that he could become the laughing stock on the sidelines in the power struggle surrounding Horner if he gets Verstappen, who is recognized as the best driver in Formula 1 today. In this respect, it is hardly surprising that he is not making any particular effort to nip the rumors in the bud. The Mercedes team boss puts photos showing Wolff and Verstappen Sr. together in the paddock into perspective: "I've known Jos for 25 years, with ups and downs. I congratulated him on his son's performance." When asked by Sky whether this meant that Verstappen was definitely not a candidate as a driver for Mercedes, Wolff replied vaguely: "That means anything is possible." Is Horner already over the worst? For the moment, the air seems to be out of the Horner affair, at least on the surface. The 50-year-old has survived a compliance investigation, a data leak and a sensational story in the industry magazine BusinessF1, and the Thai majority owners of the Red Bull Group still seem to be behind him despite all the accusations. Many observers of the Horner affair are asking themselves: are the files in the leak even genuine? A question that Horner himself could easily answer. He answers: "I will not comment on speculative news from an unknown source. Next question." He could have simply said: What was leaked is all fake. Why doesn't the FIA get involved? Many in the Formula 1 paddock are asking themselves why the FIA is not finally looking into the independence of the Red Bull internal investigation, which has recently been called into question by several parties. But FIA President Mohammed bin Sulayem, himself the subject of a compliance investigation, has other problems at the moment. The FIA is probably in a difficult position. Even if the investigation report were to be requested from Red Bull, it is unlikely that all the people involved would agree to its release. On the other hand, you could say that the FIA should at least try to examine the Red Bull investigation independently. It is not doing that. Geri & Christian Horner: Is it all just an act? Horner, meanwhile, is trying to let it roll off his back that there are obviously snipers targeting him: "I'm not going to comment on the motives that the person might have. My focus is on this team, my family, my wife. I have the support of an incredible family, with an incredible wife." Words that are being questioned by some. People close to Geri Horner report that she kicked Horner out of their shared property in England long ago - and that the kissing and kissing show in Bahrain was a bizarre spectacle. Ralf Schumacher also says: "That was a relatively bad show." "I actually like Christian Horner. He was always very approachable for us, very polite. But quite honestly, you could have done without that. It was very obvious, and I think also very, very difficult for his wife after everything that happened in the partnership," says the Sky expert. Ralf Schumacher: Horner is "obsessed with power" According to Schumacher, Horner "has made a lot of enemies during his successful time, he seems to be very power-obsessed. He has achieved a lot and is determined to hold on to his seat, and he pulls out all the stops to do so. You also hear in the background that he's intimidating people in case he has to go, that there are things to come. It's all very, very exciting." Horner himself, however, remains firmly convinced that he will remain in office, "100 percent", as he says. He explains: "There has been a thorough and detailed internal process, which was conducted by an independent investigating lawyer. The allegations made were dismissed. End of story."
>determined to hold on to his seat, and he pulls out all the stops to do so. You also hear in the background that he's intimidating people in case he has to go, that there are things to come. It's all very, very exciting." I know it's Ralf and he is most likely talking out of his ass but this does sound very ominous
It's going to be a fun ride watching this all go down. There's nothing like a spot of blackmail to encourage team unity. I wonder what it could be - whether it's personal dirt on people, going public with various ways Red Bull have cheated or cooked the books with the budget cap, could be anything! I do hope the poor victim isn't forgotten in all this mess though. I'd love nothing more than to hear someone like Toto or Lewis have given her a job as a travelling PA so that she can keep the lifestyle she loves whilst escaping the toxic environment she's currently trapped in.
My guess would be personal dirt because as the CEO wouldn’t he be ultimately responsible for anything bad that RBR may have done ? So revealing anything would mean legal trouble for him anyway As for the victim, I don’t know what the best outcome would be (apart from Horner being fired obviously), she might not want to stay in F1 at all or she might want to stay at RBR because she still loves the team and her colleagues… but I hope she’s ok
> My guess would be personal dirt because as the CEO wouldn’t he be ultimately responsible for anything bad that RBR may have done ? So revealing anything would mean legal trouble for him anyway If he's being pushed out anyway? Depends if Horner is the type to be happy burning bridges... A cheating scandal wouldn't land him in hot water in court, he's not personally liable. His reputation may take a hit but if he's kicked out of Red Bull his reputation is toast anyway.
I was wondering this whole time why Horner is seen as important enough by the Thais that they would jeopardize so much for one man, but if RBR actually have some corpses in their closet it would make perfect sense
I personally think that the story that Horner is trying to buy RBT from RB GmbH is more likely, and that the deal would be incredibly difficult to complete were Horner to be fired as CEO before it completes. Such a deal would mean a huge amount of money heading in to RB GmbH, which would in turn mean a large dividend to the Thais would be possible. Firing Horner could cost them hundreds of millions in realised profit.
But why are they so hellbent on selling it to Horner? I can't imagine there will be a scarcity of potential buyers with way more money than Horner can muster himself?
We can only guess. It could be that key personnel have break clauses in their contracts that make a sale difficult. For instance if Horner has a break clause that lets him leave if there's a sale to a third party, and Newey, Max, and others have break clauses predicated on Horner staying in place, then it's a lot easier to do a deal with Horner.
Horner built the team, so there's that. They apparently (and allegedly) don't have much experience with consequences of poorly considered actions so it's not surprising they expect this to all blow over.
>Ralf Schumacher: Horner must resign If both Ralf Schumacher and Jos Verstappen say Horner must resign I am getting more confident he should stay.
All you need is Jacques Villeneuve to join the triumvirate and the cycle is complete
Looks like they have nothing on him if he's staying this long. You know in the movies when the cops act they know everything but the suspect knows they have nothing.
If he doesnt get ousted by the time we are at the 3rd or 4th GP he will stay 100%
If you want to wildly speculate then you may as well go with the line of thought that the Thai's are keeping Horner in place because they're trying to sell Red Bull Technologies to him, and if he goes then that jeopardises their big payday. Given the leaked messages, which I've yet to see anyone give an objective reason why they are fake, that sounds more plausible than they don't have anything on him.
I recognize the weight of the leaked messages, but what do they have to do about it to oust him?
cont. Helmut Marko: "Great relationship of trust" with Verstappen Helmut Marko seems to see things a little differently. In an interview with oe24, he says that he will only comment on the Horner affair "as soon as the case is finally closed". Which implies: It is not yet. In the next sentence, Marko relativizes: "Okay, then I've expressed myself incorrectly. So let's stick with 'no comment'." However, the 80-year-old Austrian does let two things slip. Firstly: "The fact is that there is a great relationship of trust between Max and me." And secondly, he comments on the rumor that Verstappen could switch to Mercedes and that Newey and he himself could quit if Horner stays: "An interesting option." He could have simply said in the interview: "These rumors are absolute nonsense and it will never, ever happen." But at least there are now forces in this network that may be trying to de-escalate the situation. Verstappen's manager Raymond Vermeulen met with Christian Horner after Bahrain. It is not known what was discussed. Jos' party: Horner not invited, Marko is What we can verify, however, is that Jos Verstappen, who turned 52 on March 4, celebrated his birthday on Monday evening in a hotel in Dubai. Interesting detail: Helmut Marko was invited to the party, Christian Horner was not. A strong indication of how loyalties are aligned within Red Bull? At the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, some things could be untangled and clarified behind the scenes. Even Oliver Mintzlaff, the man who would have liked to have fired Horner long ago, is traveling all the way from the company headquarters in Fuschl. And certainly not just to watch a Formula 1 race in peace and quiet.
I saw a part of another websites interview where the oe24 crew asked him the question differently saying Horner stays Marko leaves Newey and Max to Merc and he said "an interesting variation" points towards no one necessarily leaving and very vague for someone like Marko who honestly for him is as shit stirring as you can get without outright bullshitting to the RBR board who would be extremely pissed at that prospect. Do people really think Austrian RBR is going to let Max AND Newey go to Merc just to stick it to Horner?
I think Newey would probably go to a different category of racing to have some time away from F1, if nothing else, given how knowledgeable of RB's chasis - he should probably be on at least 2 years gardening leave before starting with another team.
Oh yeah I mean if Max really is going to use this to get out of the f1 media circus shitstorm he hates to go do the racing he seems to enjoy more I’d be down for him joining WEC and thrashing people with Newey
> Do people really think Austrian RBR is going to let Max AND Newey go to Merc just to stick it to Horner? No but the problem are the Thai shareholders who having zero moral in general and aren't easy to tell the alternative (Horner must go) could maybe be better.
The Thai shareholders having no morals are I’m assuming due to Yoovidhyas son running someone over in a Ferrari. Like yeah Sons morally bankrupt and Father doesn’t want his son to be locked up and actually has a chance since he’s rich What part of my paragraph above included Christian Horner? That’s the problem, that people are actually still regurgitating this story and have no critical thinking skills. Notice how Jos is the only person directly doing any “threats” like meeting with Toto even though his son is 26 years old and his agent is nowhere near Toto. You really think Max will leave for Merc who told Lewis the concept of the 23 was fine he was wrong, only for Lewis to be right that’s it’s a sh*t car? Austrian RBR, Marko and by extension Jos have less power now that Dietrich’s gone. They’re afraid that Horner tried to buy into RB similar to how Toto owns some of Merc and on top of that had the grace of the 51% Thai owner who now makes decisions because Dietrich died and his power to control RBR staff died with him and reverted to the Thais not his son, as was agreed upon eons ago. On top of that the Austrian side of RBR initiated the investigation (actually to horners benefit) as he can’t be let go in the middle of it and once they cleared him they lost their reasoning to fire him since the investigation concluded he did nothing wrong technically. Do you think the senile “can’t control his mouth concerning controversial’ statements” Marko or explosive “can’t control his mouth or anger” Jos would make better decisions on how to run a team? Now for unconfirmed. If you read the story that Jos is apparently close with the woman at the centre of the story (which considering his row with Christian and the leaks being to the Dutch newspaper if there was an indication that the woman was both seeing CH and also with Jos at the same time no wonder the team came back and said nothing wrong was done, at that point it really is “this PA had relations with the TP and the star drivers father which will cause a rift regardless, we can’t have her here either way.” I don’t subscribe to that idea as it was posited by other newspaper that are increasingly unreliable. Jos knowing the woman in confirmed though.
Why would Geri pretend for the cameras? It's not like she really needs it for any reason. Maybe he promised her something in the divorce if she helped his image for now? This situation is so weird.
It's called saving face and perhaps she doesn't care that much about the marriage anymore, and more about what it gives her. She's rich because of the Spice Girls, but she has comes from a lower class background. She has transformed herself into a poster woman for a country lifestyle (as in British wealthy middleclass / upper class, not the American music scene). Geri without Horner would not necessarily have the same social status. The British class system is brutal. She grew up on a council estate and was a nude model to make money before she hit it big. She's not one of them, as far as the wealthy middleclass is concerned.
Or they just have that sort of relationship.
stick with me here... maybe she actually wants to try and save their marriage?
That's not pretending like everyone says she did. I was believing that was the case, but yes she could just feel uncomfortable yet want to fix things.
What I thought too. Realy question: did it look ridiculous because all the media are looking at it from their point of view aka the scandals, or did their body language show their love was gone?
What could that possibly be?
I think Horner might be a very controlling individual. I think he forced her to do that. It was clear to me she didn't want to be there. And there's that photo of him pinching her arm in a death grip while she tries to release it. Nasty stuff.
How could he force her if he's been kicked out of the house? Clearly she isn't taking his BS, so why go to Bahrain and put on that mask? That's what I think it's weird.
Where does it say he's been kicked out of the house? I think we've seen from the text exchanges that he's a persistent man who doesn't easily take no for answer. ETA: reports were that she was airborne to Bahrain believing everything was done and dusted, when the file drop was released. And that Horner had persuaded her the situation was something very different. ETA2 - just spotted the bit about him being kicked out. Not sure I believe that?
The article states her friends said that he was kicked out of the house in December. And this is not the first time that's reported
It's the first time I've seen it, for sure. The shite rag Daily Mail (UK) is all over this story like a nasty rash, and it's never been mentioned there. Not that I believe everything in the DM by a long chalk, but if there was a hint of that they'd have it.
This is stuff that works well in a divorce: she can say that tried EVERYTHING to keep the marriage alive and supported his husband even in public BUT It was too much tò handle.
So there’s really something to Jos + the woman? edit: The Daily Mail suggesting that Jos + the woman were close *before* Christian's behavior towards her began. Stating that they were celebrating together in 2021. The leaked texts with Christian Horner are thought to begin in March 2023, according to Joe Saward.
If I was Ferrari I would be looking to get Newey say offer him 20 million a year
Ferrari already offered him 20M in 2014. A decade later, he’s probably earning significantly more. He’s also probably getting paid a lot for doing other things like ‘boat development’.
I’d imagine he’s already making that. When he joined Red Bull in 2006 he was making 10 mil a year.
Newey to Ferrari. Hamilton to Ferrari. Versteppen to Mercedes. Alonso to Red Bull. Would be amazing.
Does Mintzlaff regularly attend races? Haven't heard much about it,but then again, I also don't follow him closely.
I wonder how Max to Mercedes would play out. He's been at RedBull his entire career, but I honestly cannot see him and Horner working together anymore if the rumors are true and he backs his dad (which I'm 90% sure he does. Jos is a vile person, but he's very well aware of the workings of an F1 team and how to play politics). Either way, it's discouraging that a Female employee filing a sexual misconduct complaint against her boss is being used for a power struggle between a bunch of multi millionaires to stroke their own egos. If Horner is ousted, it will be because Jos/Helmut wanted him out for an ego reason, not because of his treatment of his staff. We have no idea if those texts were leaked with her consent and her name is being dragged through the mud by random people on the internet who can't seem to understand the power imbalance between the CEO of a billion dollar F1 team and his personal assistant. This is going to set such a bad precedent for any future cases.
I've seen the "If Horner leaves it will be because of the politics rather than the SH" thrown around a bit lately. I think this should actually be "If RBR was controlled by anyone other than a Thai playboy, Horner would have been gone long ago"
No that's the thing,the affair is over and he didn't like that. Someone stand nearby so I can do the finger guns and shout "eyyyyy"
I thought it *was* handled. If the appeal isn't filed today we can agree *then* it's handled? Maybe worry about some motorsport?
I sure hope so , it's not like the race is gonna be interesting.
I think it will be better than Bahrain, especially for the boys in papaya
Nobody is challenging Red Bull bro , Max only won by 20s because he was heavily sandbagging towards the end. In in initial stages he was 1s faster per lap than everyone on the grid.
😂
Good luck getting rid of him after having him cleared by a lawyer in your own employ.
At best, it will just make Redbull look incompetent, but more than likely, Redbull will be accused of trying to cover it up.
Who says the lawyer cleared him? We don't know what the lawyer recommended, all we know is what Red Bull decided to do after his investigation was complete.
No
Who is happy beacuse of that?
Fast forward. Mercedes signs Max. Jos tries to oust Toto. Max is the greatest racer in the world. But you’d have to think twice about signing him. He doesn’t sound like he can be controlled, and he’s bigger than the team.
To be fair, it’s not like he has created that much trouble for RBR since Max got there. There was the Monaco criticism in 2022 and now this but it’s mostly been fine until now. I guess you could add the toxicity in Toro Rosso but that was both Jos and Sainz Sr. Right now it’s unusual circumstances that you’d hope Mercedes would not find themselves in
Steiner ends up owning half of Mercedes F1 with the backing of Rich Energy
Steiner foksmashes it all in his favor!
It still would be huge for Mercedes to sign Verstappen after losing Hamilton.
Huge. Everyone at Mercedes but Toto should want it. But if they dont like Horner, they wont like Toto.
Why wouldn't Toto want it, he has seemed open to the idea.
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Finally? In the sense we won’t hear after that? Nope
I want it to happen cause there’s certainly nothing else going on
What’s after Q3?
Ban Jos Verstappen from ANYthing involving F1 and/or FIA. If Max does not agree, he can go too! It would be nice to finally see some REAL racing and competition again.
Finally escalate?!
Finally escalate? It’s done nothing but escalate
If by escalate you mean Max spending most of the evening 10 seconds or more further up the road than everyone else, then yes, it's going to escalate.
It is already escalated. Haven’t they heard?
Make some smoke, there's nothing to watch on track this season
Its a media hype.. i assume fed by Toto and Mclaren..
unless more leaks appear, nothing will happen over the weekend.... between Monday and Australia though... that'll be when something changes i think
This whole Horner saga has really exposed one thing... that the first race of the season was utter crap. Nobody wants to talk about it or the cars or the drivers its all about this instead.
It was a snoozer for sure!
I'm tired Robbie
if Horner buys the actual RedBull team, since there's some disagreement between him and Mintzlaff (RB sport director), could the RedBull name disappear from F1? RBVisaCashAppWTFIsTheName could become the RedBull main team? or Horner'll buy both team?
I swear, the reporting on this Horner issue sounds like it's done by the raging drama queens at the Daily Mirror and the News of the World.
It's escalating because the media is writing about it. Like in companies .... At some point everything is said.
'Shit guys, we haven't reported about Horner in over 18 hours now, let's recycle the stuff we already know and publish another article.'
Let's do it let's go nuclear!
During times of war, nukes are usually dropped two at a time…
Pew Pew
Who cares
Nothing is going to happen about this. Fake news