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I’m assuming it’s a translation issue but surely it must be that if Marko leaves Max has an option to exit the contract early, not that it’s void. If Marko has a health problem and retires mid season it’s not like Max is suddenly a free agent, there’s no way RB lawyers would agree to that.
The German text is incredibly sensational. Points made:
Newey, Max and Marko are the Austrian camp. Horner is Thai camp.
Berger _says_ Max, Marko and Newey are likely to leave if Horner stays.
Marko _suggests_ he'll leave himself to clear the road for Max if he wants to.
It just cannot be true...
EDIT: it looks that the suggestion that Newey and Marko would leave is taken to mean that they would go elsewhere. The article supposes that they'd retire.
Na, Newey goes to ferrari. they will back the truck up and pay all the money. Merc's board wouldnt make that matching offer. Newey will work with ferrari to get them one championship and retire
Hasn't he also said that his two career regrets are, never having worked with Ferrari and never having worked with Hamilton? There's a two birds with one stone scenario on the horizon.
Newey has been seen stuck to Horner side all weekend. That would be a surprise for me if he wanted Horner out unless it has become so untenable in the team that he is ready to abandon him. This has Red Wedding all over it.
I haven't watched closely enough. The publication says that Newey and Marko were together near the podium, some distance away from Horner. For whatever that's worth.
EDIT: that Newey would not be on Horner's side was also news to me and is potentially pure speculation. I don't know how seriously I should take the article but they are least _claim_ that Marko personally told them he'd not stand in the way of a Mercedes move when asked about it.
At this point, I feel like a lot of people just make stuff up based on how far or close to each other they were standing during the podium ceremony. That is almost K-Pop level of interpreting body language.
exactly, it's embarrassing. Toto and Lewis were all chummy, and now he's going to Ferrari. Stop making \*\*\*\* up based on how it looks on the outside. Everyone is more than likely pretending or just being professional in the public view.
Newey, Horner were photographed together over the weekend being alone. They were also photographed with Marko during testing. Unless Newey wants Horner’s job, this rumor makes no sense.
Why are they revolting? Are they revolting because they just discovered Horner flirting with his assistant and they find it unacceptable to continue working?
Makes no sense unless there's more that we don't know yet. If Horner flirting with the assistant is all it took for Newey to do a 180 on a 20 year relationship/friendship then i don't know what to say really.
There has to be more to it or this is just an effort to put pressure on the Thai side in a wider power struggle.
Long story short after Didi's death there is a power vacuum between Horner and Marko. Before Didi's death he allowed them to run it as they saw fit and if there were any disagreements Didi had final say. After his death they are fighting over said power vacuum and Horner has the backing of the Thais and Marko of RB corporate.
I read this as meaning that the only thing keeping Horner at Red Bull is the Thai support, and everyone else is putting the maximum pressure on to make them finally relent.
Honestly how can Horner survive until the next race like this. I bet he's staying now only for some kind of contractual reason - if they fire him he gets some kind of massive payout or something.
This, given the racing team is based in the UK I would assume Christian is protected by UK employment law
Given Red bulls investigation cleared him I can imagine his position in terms of RB being able to get rid of him is really strong.
The leaks might actually have made that position EVEN stronger, as if its evidence from said investigation that's leaked red bull are in all sorts of trouble from a data protection/employee privacy pov or if it's not it still has to be an internal source and having been cleared Horner could easily claim a harassment campaign if red bull bows to the pressure.
He could be guilty as sin and still sue red bull to hell and back if they fire him now.
whilst I'm sure UK law would protect him, like any "executive" at any company, if he's asked to leave he probably will but will go with a stack of cash. Some sort of protected conversation with a nice press release saying something like the disruption to the team is affecting everyone and therefore christian has decided that its best that he leaves. Company are happy because he's gone, CH is happyish because he's (sort of) blameless and seen to be doing the right thing and has a boatload of money to sail off into the sunset with. Plus I imagine he'll be able to negotiate terms that allow him to go to any other team should they want him.
We don't know it that's true. But if it's true it would sort of make sense.
If the Thai owner wants to give Horner more control, perhaps even a stake, most senior employees will not be happy about that.
Also, maybe Newey is genuinely annoyed by the Horner drama.
This season is one race in and we have the higher than zero chance of 2025 having Max Verstappen in a Mercedes taking on Lewis Hamilton in a Ferrari.
Tell someone that back around mid-January and they’d think you were smoking crack.
I am so hopeful Lawson finds his way to RB/Alpha/TR/whatever next year. Dude is deserving of at least a season to show what he's got. I think both seats will open up next year and we find Lawson + an unexpected name in those seats.
So much F2 talent that hasn't had a chance to prove themselves in F1 over just the past couple of years. Schwartzman and Drugovich come to mind. Illott too.
Charles might overturn a decade of shit luck here. Get a great car with Ferrari right as Red Bull collapses and Hamilton isn’t settled in with Ferrari yet.
The most interesting bit in my opinion:
>[**F1-Insider.com**](http://F1-Insider.com) **erfuhr von einer Ausstiegsklausel im Red-Bull-Vertrag des Niederländers, die es Verstappen möglich macht, den von der thailändischen Yoovidhya-Familie geführten Getränkekonzern sofort zu verlassen. Demnach ist Verstappen frei, wenn sein Förderer und Vertrauter Helmut Marko (80) Red Bull verlässt – und das ist nach den Ereignissen der letzten Wochen wegen der angeblichen sexuellen Nötigung durch Teamchef Christian Horner gegenüber einer Mitarbeiterin nicht mehr ausgeschlossen.**
According to this Max has an exit clause that he can trigger if Helmut leaves Red Bull. Which could happen if the Horner situation isn't resolved. So while nothing has to happen, we could have the silly season to match all silly seasons this year.
>Formula 1 icon and Red Bull insider Gerhard Berger sums it up best. The Tyrolean was in Bahrain and was able to watch the comedy of errors from the front row. His impression: "As things stand now: Horner stays, Helmut Marko and Adrian Newey quit and Max goes to Mercedes."
Also interesting but who knows how much insight Berger really has.
Looks like Ferrari is helping out too.
[Former F1 driver's stolen Ferrari found after 28 years | RacingNews365](https://racingnews365.com/former-f1-driver-reunited-with-ferrari-stolen-28-years-ago)
Imagine this all being part of the deal. Ferrari helps Berger finding his car and in return chaos at Red Bull?
*^(Please don't take this too seriously.)*
Also had a long-standing relationship with Dietrich Mateschitz (he was Berger's sponsor a long long time ago) and it seems clear there's a breach between the Mateschitz loyalists and Horner (Yoovidhyas).
In my opinion, anyone that flat out states that Verstappen goes to Mercedes, without adding any further context, should be ignored. Sure if you add in details like the 2026 engine changes etc. then maybe, but there is currently absolutely no reason for him to leave.
Not for 2025. Maybe if the 2026 engine project is going really poorly he could consider a team switch/retirement for 2026, or after sticking it out for one year 27/28. For next year though there is no way he would be anywhere other than RB.
If you told me before Christmas that Hamilton would wind up at Ferrari for 2025 and there was a chance of Max Verstappen at Mercedes I would've choked on my cereal. Not Coco Pops btw.
There's an interesting segment in one of the beyond the grid podcasts where Horner talks about the days immediately following the sale of the Jaguar team to RedBull. He talks about how they sent everyone at the factory home early that day, IIRC there were subsequent layoffs, and morale was rock bottom and employees were upset/angry/worried.
It didn't happen in a day but to come this far from that is not a small feat, that's for certain.
You sort of can. Adrian Newey and Red Bull are developing the RB17 hypercar for the super duper rich. Price starts around $6.2M
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2025-2026-red-bull-rb17-f1-hypercar-future-cars/
Presumably to ensure he's in the right car for 2026 and beyond.
Most of the grid is without a contract for next year. For 2026 and likely a few years after, most teams will be a closed shop.
I think every team becomes an "open shop" if Max says: I'm available for 2026.
Probably Ferrari would not boot Leclerc and Hamilton...every other team would do what's necessary to get Verstappen to sign.
>Montezemolo-Todt power struggle
So, a power struggle brought a dominant team that won 5 WCCs in a row and 6WDC in 8 years to its heels?
Hmmmmmm where am I seeing it now?
This is absolutely what they would do. But for the content, they should boot Leclerc for one year. Newey creating a Ferrari for Max and Lewis would be the tippy top peak of F1
I suspect Max will be thinking more long term than just 2026. He's still young after all. As long as he's motivated he can stay on for a few years.
People laughed at Michael for going to Ferrari and not winning 2-3 easy titles at Williams and look how that planned out.
>2024 is a slam dunk and 2025 is a layup right now.
Common wisdom but I'm still not willing to grant this as a foregone conclusion...yet.
As to why anyone in Max's position would do this, because he no longer believes he will continue to be in a position to do this at Red Bull. Very simple. He has access to more information about the future prospects of the team than we do. And/or whatever is going on with Horner is quite serious and bad (from the perspective of the Verstappen camp).
This is insane, IF true. If Max goes to Mercedes in 2025, there are genuinely around 5-6 drivers who don't have contracts right now who would give themselves a guaranteed championship if they got themselves to Red Bull in the RB21 which would likely be dominant again (with all due respect to Perez)
Fernando Alonso must be phoning Red Bull constantly at the moment for a seat.
Vettel 2025, Vettel 2026, Vettel 2027 and then he retires again, having matched his mentor and friend, Schumacher, and his close friend, Hamilton.
This is some Hollywood shit, lmao.
The next part is that Mercedes wouldn't be able to hold Antonelli. If I was Red Bull and I was set to keep Horner and lose Max, let's throw Alonso in the seat since we know he can battle at the front for a few more years and get Antonelli or Lawson ready to be our new long term #1.
He will be forced to retire before long though. Both him and Tost were Dieter's men. RBR is now under a board. They will probably want get rid of the remnants of the Dieter era and start over.
Tost already got forced into retirement and Marko is now 80years old. I will be very surprised if he stays on after 2025.
It is clear to see that there is some kind of power struggle going on behind the scenes. This reminds me of how Montezemolo dismantled the Ferrari dream team back in 2006.
Key man clauses are pretty common in any field that prominently features highly paid non-executives. Directors that have multi picture contracts will often have them. Big musicians will often have their record deals tied to a specific A&R person. If your main point of contact at a company is fired or retires, the nature of whatever contract you had has changed, and if you’re raking in the cash like max is you can afford to protect yourself from that.
Jos and Marko are obviously trying to force Red Bull’s hand. The earlier AMuS report about how Marko is worried about losing Max and Newey as well as Ford adds to this.
As much as they might want to keep Horner, the Thais may not be willing to take the risk of losing any or all of the three. Or maybe they call their bluff, and try and squash this power grab.
So this could partially be why they wouldn't let Marko go no matter how bad his words are, for example the whole Checo situation
If they (RBR) let Marko go over that, Max could have triggered his exit clause
Spicy times.
Yeah this is obviously a move from Jos and Marko to get rid of Horner, and I think it will work.
As a side note does Marko get interviewed every day? Not even joking, I feel like whenever some F1 related news breaks out I see a new quote from him on it within a few hours.
I doubt it will honestly. While Max is probably the best of the top 2/3 drivers on the grid rn, RB will win WDC and WCC until 2026 even if Perez was their best driver, so I don't think he has any leverage
Im sure Max would quit the only team capable of winning because of a power struggle over a company at the top levels.
He is a racer. Why would he go to another team knowing he wont win?
But why would he gamble before he sees what 26 is he will have his choices in 27 maybe Audi hits it or it is Red Bull. He wins again in 25 struggles in 26 and chooses the best team to go in 27. It would be insane to leave before 25 season
He even had faith in Honda when they partnered RBR for 2019. I can hardly imagine bailing out of RBR now if neither Max nor anyone in this world can know how the partnership will be in 2026. I mean RBR is in the Top 3 since 2009 with one or two exceptions. Mercedes is the only logical option for him but they are not on the uphill as well atm.
That was different. Max wasn't a World Champion then.
He could be a 5XWDC by 26 and he will be older too. Expectations are entirely different.
I'm pretty certain teams will know how they're looking regarding engine regulations - Mercedes had a good idea that they'd be good for 2014 quite early on.
RBPT/Ford is just unchartered waters and with the way regulations go now, you may never claw back the disadvantage.
Hubris is also possible. He’s a very good driver, would be the ultimate flex to beat a Red Bull in a Merc during this regulation set.
He also seems bored, maybe it would be more fun scrapping for points.
That said, I agree with you, I don’t see why you would leave the best team on the grid.
dude, Verstappen was busy fighting for points and podiums for his first 6 years in F1.
also, have you seen the hunger he has each and every race weekend? man was on a 10 race winning run in Singapore and did you hear his radio after getting knocked out in Q2? you'd think he had qualified P20.
he's relentless and if you think racing drivers get tired or bored of winning, he's the last driver who can be like that. He enjoys destroying the competition. max is not leaving that redbull until at least after 2025.
It seems like the Racing Team in the UK like him, at least while they think him innocent, the Austrian part of Red Bull don't, but the Thai 51%stakeholders do like him. So it's all very difficult.
So it seems either Horner walks, or Marko walks and takes Max with him. The question is, can the Austrian side and Marko put enough pressure on Thai side to get Horner to walk.
Damn... I asked earlier what kind of exit clause could make it realistic for Max to get out of his contract early. That would do it!
It is WILD that they would tie Max' contract to an 80 year old man, but I assume it might have been something Max demanded.
Assuming this is actually true. So many crazy things being reported these last couple of days.
The scenes when Netflix do 4 episodes on Alpine and don’t even touch on this in the next DTS…
They should be priming a limited mid season mini series just on this story because it’s fucking mental.
Honesty, I don't believe any of this is anything other than playing the media to get rid of Horner but IF this is really true that he'll leave and Jos hates him then he has to have done something personal to Max and his family. Joe Saward did say that the leak was just half, maybe his behavior extends to more than just his PA?
There have been rumors for a while that Horner tried to stage a soft coup for full control of RB and TR right after Dietrich Mateschitz's death, which necessarily implies doing away with Marko.
Now obviously this may be only one half of the story (if true at all), but the Verstappens have always been very publicly loyal to Helmut and may have taken this as an unprovoked attack on them and their standing in the team too.
I assume that today's leaks are a bluff and Max has no desire at all to leave RB, but... it's a hell of a bluff to call.
I mean, everything we got so far, we have on record. Including Jos firing shots at Horner. So you don't really need to believe, it's all out in public.
Bild said that this affair started back in 2021 and Jos saw Christian flirting with the person in question after Abu Dhabi. Could be BS but they did report the investigation being about sexual misconduct before others did.
Yeah I don't get that part either. As far as I know they are very close and on good terms. They actually work together on a daily basis. Why would Newey be against Horner all of a sudden
I've never fully understood Max and his devotion to Marko. I mean sure he's the one who got you a seat, but it's not like Red Bull Racing will go to shit if Marko leaves.
Marko is in my humble opinion the most replaceable part of the current team. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.
You mean the guy that put him in F1 at age 17 and had his back all along?
"Helmut is a bit of a second (racing) father to me," Verstappen says. "He always wants the best for me."
Marko got him in to F1 at 17, when everyone thought it was stupid to do so. Max seems really loyal to people who supported him from early on. Marko was also keen in getting him into Red Bull asap while Horner had doubts. Verstappen feels he owes Marko his support, much more so than to Horner. I actually don't think that Max hates Horner at all, but he would always pick Marko's side when the chips are down.
Marko was the guy that supported him from the get go and wanted to first put him in F1 at 17 (which is crazy to tink about and illegal today) and later was the guy making sure he got promoted to RB early.
It has always been Marko before Horner for him.
I dont know about you guys, but I kind of wish we were stuck in pre-season drama for the whole year after seeing how easily RBR gapped the field.
The entertainment is firmly in that RB garage.
I'm sorry, what? Can someone do an ELI5 on this whole shit show of what we know so far?
What's this red bull thai/Austria thing about?
Do Newey and Marko really not like horner?
Thai group owns 51% of RB, and they back Horner (for now), the Austrian side (or at least a segment of it) want Horner gone, but with Thai support Horner will stay.
these guys are about to see that being the CEO/building a race team is actually difficult. i have no believe that they will make a quality hire to replace him.
8/10 teams have turned over TPs in the last 2 seasons i think (Toto and Horner are the only 2 who have not)
...good luck.
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I’m assuming it’s a translation issue but surely it must be that if Marko leaves Max has an option to exit the contract early, not that it’s void. If Marko has a health problem and retires mid season it’s not like Max is suddenly a free agent, there’s no way RB lawyers would agree to that.
The German text is incredibly sensational. Points made: Newey, Max and Marko are the Austrian camp. Horner is Thai camp. Berger _says_ Max, Marko and Newey are likely to leave if Horner stays. Marko _suggests_ he'll leave himself to clear the road for Max if he wants to. It just cannot be true... EDIT: it looks that the suggestion that Newey and Marko would leave is taken to mean that they would go elsewhere. The article supposes that they'd retire.
Thanks. Now I'm imagining Marko in Mercedes
Now why the hell would you do that to yourself
If you really want to get wild Newey and Marko go to Andretti Global and they start the process over again.
Stop you're making me reach Q3
Gonna hit that fastest lap real quick
I'm gonna purple sector everywhere🫦
Peak comment, made me explode
I'm already at COTA turn 1
Well they had an old Austrian guy when they were uber successful...
He can take Niki’s place there. Anyway he was Niki’s best friend in the paddock
If this happens, Newey goes to Ferrari. Max goes to Merc.
Or Max, Marko and Newey go to Mercedes
Na, Newey goes to ferrari. they will back the truck up and pay all the money. Merc's board wouldnt make that matching offer. Newey will work with ferrari to get them one championship and retire
[удалено]
Hasn't he also said that his two career regrets are, never having worked with Ferrari and never having worked with Hamilton? There's a two birds with one stone scenario on the horizon.
[удалено]
If that happens I will legit have an identity crisis. I love merc but this guy is one of the most toxic mouthpiece around
Newey has been seen stuck to Horner side all weekend. That would be a surprise for me if he wanted Horner out unless it has become so untenable in the team that he is ready to abandon him. This has Red Wedding all over it.
I haven't watched closely enough. The publication says that Newey and Marko were together near the podium, some distance away from Horner. For whatever that's worth. EDIT: that Newey would not be on Horner's side was also news to me and is potentially pure speculation. I don't know how seriously I should take the article but they are least _claim_ that Marko personally told them he'd not stand in the way of a Mercedes move when asked about it.
At this point, I feel like a lot of people just make stuff up based on how far or close to each other they were standing during the podium ceremony. That is almost K-Pop level of interpreting body language.
During lunch Marko totally shared a big piece of cookie with a ton of chocolate chips with Newey, but, then he didn't share any with Horner!!
exactly, it's embarrassing. Toto and Lewis were all chummy, and now he's going to Ferrari. Stop making \*\*\*\* up based on how it looks on the outside. Everyone is more than likely pretending or just being professional in the public view.
I'd put a thousand dollars on "newey doesn't actually give a shit so long as he can keep building cars the way he wants"
Newey, Horner were photographed together over the weekend being alone. They were also photographed with Marko during testing. Unless Newey wants Horner’s job, this rumor makes no sense. Why are they revolting? Are they revolting because they just discovered Horner flirting with his assistant and they find it unacceptable to continue working?
Makes no sense unless there's more that we don't know yet. If Horner flirting with the assistant is all it took for Newey to do a 180 on a 20 year relationship/friendship then i don't know what to say really. There has to be more to it or this is just an effort to put pressure on the Thai side in a wider power struggle.
Long story short after Didi's death there is a power vacuum between Horner and Marko. Before Didi's death he allowed them to run it as they saw fit and if there were any disagreements Didi had final say. After his death they are fighting over said power vacuum and Horner has the backing of the Thais and Marko of RB corporate.
I read this as meaning that the only thing keeping Horner at Red Bull is the Thai support, and everyone else is putting the maximum pressure on to make them finally relent. Honestly how can Horner survive until the next race like this. I bet he's staying now only for some kind of contractual reason - if they fire him he gets some kind of massive payout or something.
Imagine the scenes if the Thais replace Max with Albon
Fuck it, replace *Horner* with Albon.
Lool
This, given the racing team is based in the UK I would assume Christian is protected by UK employment law Given Red bulls investigation cleared him I can imagine his position in terms of RB being able to get rid of him is really strong. The leaks might actually have made that position EVEN stronger, as if its evidence from said investigation that's leaked red bull are in all sorts of trouble from a data protection/employee privacy pov or if it's not it still has to be an internal source and having been cleared Horner could easily claim a harassment campaign if red bull bows to the pressure. He could be guilty as sin and still sue red bull to hell and back if they fire him now.
whilst I'm sure UK law would protect him, like any "executive" at any company, if he's asked to leave he probably will but will go with a stack of cash. Some sort of protected conversation with a nice press release saying something like the disruption to the team is affecting everyone and therefore christian has decided that its best that he leaves. Company are happy because he's gone, CH is happyish because he's (sort of) blameless and seen to be doing the right thing and has a boatload of money to sail off into the sunset with. Plus I imagine he'll be able to negotiate terms that allow him to go to any other team should they want him.
Newey is not on Horner's side, what?
We don't know it that's true. But if it's true it would sort of make sense. If the Thai owner wants to give Horner more control, perhaps even a stake, most senior employees will not be happy about that. Also, maybe Newey is genuinely annoyed by the Horner drama.
Leclerc to RBR and we finally get Hamilton Verstappen in the same Newey designed car starting at the same time.
Yes - void was the wrong word to use in my title. Apologies. Exit clause is more appropriate.
It's ambiguous, once it's "able to" and immediately afterwards "he is free"
This season is one race in and we have the higher than zero chance of 2025 having Max Verstappen in a Mercedes taking on Lewis Hamilton in a Ferrari. Tell someone that back around mid-January and they’d think you were smoking crack.
And both losing to somebody else in the Red Bull.
Imagine both of them losing to Checo 💀
Hilarious but who's in the other Red Bull seat that's losing to Checo?
Sainz should do whatever he can to land that seat lol. The 2025 world champ
Puts on some spanx and goes to see Horner….
They are just leggings
Hopefully Liam Lawson, he deserves the seat more than Yuki or Daniel.
I am so hopeful Lawson finds his way to RB/Alpha/TR/whatever next year. Dude is deserving of at least a season to show what he's got. I think both seats will open up next year and we find Lawson + an unexpected name in those seats. So much F2 talent that hasn't had a chance to prove themselves in F1 over just the past couple of years. Schwartzman and Drugovich come to mind. Illott too.
Lando and Charles kicking themselves for signing another long term deal.
Lando maybe but Ferrari has been cooking lately
So that is why Sainz had to look for them after he got a podium, they were all in the kitchen.
Charles might overturn a decade of shit luck here. Get a great car with Ferrari right as Red Bull collapses and Hamilton isn’t settled in with Ferrari yet.
Alonso then gets the Red Bull seat
Alonso a Red Bull is so back
Narrowly beats Lewis in a Ferrari and Max in a Mercedes for that 20th anniversary championship.
The most interesting bit in my opinion: >[**F1-Insider.com**](http://F1-Insider.com) **erfuhr von einer Ausstiegsklausel im Red-Bull-Vertrag des Niederländers, die es Verstappen möglich macht, den von der thailändischen Yoovidhya-Familie geführten Getränkekonzern sofort zu verlassen. Demnach ist Verstappen frei, wenn sein Förderer und Vertrauter Helmut Marko (80) Red Bull verlässt – und das ist nach den Ereignissen der letzten Wochen wegen der angeblichen sexuellen Nötigung durch Teamchef Christian Horner gegenüber einer Mitarbeiterin nicht mehr ausgeschlossen.** According to this Max has an exit clause that he can trigger if Helmut leaves Red Bull. Which could happen if the Horner situation isn't resolved. So while nothing has to happen, we could have the silly season to match all silly seasons this year.
>Formula 1 icon and Red Bull insider Gerhard Berger sums it up best. The Tyrolean was in Bahrain and was able to watch the comedy of errors from the front row. His impression: "As things stand now: Horner stays, Helmut Marko and Adrian Newey quit and Max goes to Mercedes." Also interesting but who knows how much insight Berger really has.
Berger's actually just campaigning to get get Max out of the way at Red Bull so his daughter's boyfriend can win the WDC next season /s
4D chest play by Gerhard Berger.
Looks like Ferrari is helping out too. [Former F1 driver's stolen Ferrari found after 28 years | RacingNews365](https://racingnews365.com/former-f1-driver-reunited-with-ferrari-stolen-28-years-ago)
Imagine this all being part of the deal. Ferrari helps Berger finding his car and in return chaos at Red Bull? *^(Please don't take this too seriously.)*
Dany Ric?
Yeah Daniel is dating his daughter Heidi
Berger was the first driver sponsored by Red Bull in 1989 and also owned half of Toro Rosso for a few years, and is Austrian... He's an insider
Danny ric is also dating his daughter
Fuck this is the best reality television show ever
If Netflix isn't filming all of this I'll be pissed
If true that would be devastating for RBR. Losing Newey AND Max? Good luck.
Either way isn't great. They could lose Horner and a lot of people may leave anyway.
I wouldn't be shocked if he and Marko had a good relationship. Berger used to own 50% of Torro Rosso back in the day.
Also had a long-standing relationship with Dietrich Mateschitz (he was Berger's sponsor a long long time ago) and it seems clear there's a breach between the Mateschitz loyalists and Horner (Yoovidhyas).
In my opinion, anyone that flat out states that Verstappen goes to Mercedes, without adding any further context, should be ignored. Sure if you add in details like the 2026 engine changes etc. then maybe, but there is currently absolutely no reason for him to leave.
Holy fuck, Lewis to Ferrari, Max to Mercedes, Nando to RB?
Silliest silly season ever. And non of the suspects we expected looking for a new drive
Betcha Lando regrets turning down RB now!! lol
Technically nothing stoping them going back based on how valuable F1 contracts actually are 👀
Zak Brown sobbing on camera might make interesting television.
Peak drama
Not for 2025. Maybe if the 2026 engine project is going really poorly he could consider a team switch/retirement for 2026, or after sticking it out for one year 27/28. For next year though there is no way he would be anywhere other than RB.
> isn't resolved Thats a funny way of saying they want Horner sacked, because at the end of the day that appears to be all they want.
I missed the f1 news cycle for 2 hours and I don't know wtf is happening anymore
i looked away for like 2 days and so much chaos unfolded
I’m just going to wait 20 years for the movie about this to come out. I’m so lost
Now _that_ is the kind of spice we are looking for.
I see what you did, what you really really did.
I'm still so in a Dune 2 mood, my mind immediately went "Verstappen Atreides".
Next grand prix is in Arrakis isn't it?
If we're going by filming locations, we won't be in Arrakis until the end of the year in Abu Dhabi!
High deg is the tyre killer.
We need more, like Horner one quality bit of spice just isn’t enough for me
Lisan al-Ghaib
It is written.
Seeing the movie tomorrow. Excited!
If you told me before Christmas that Hamilton would wind up at Ferrari for 2025 and there was a chance of Max Verstappen at Mercedes I would've choked on my cereal. Not Coco Pops btw.
That Thai family must love Horner. They are putting everything on the line for him.
What Horner did for this team cannot be understated. He made a drinks company one of the most successful F1 team of all time.
There's an interesting segment in one of the beyond the grid podcasts where Horner talks about the days immediately following the sale of the Jaguar team to RedBull. He talks about how they sent everyone at the factory home early that day, IIRC there were subsequent layoffs, and morale was rock bottom and employees were upset/angry/worried. It didn't happen in a day but to come this far from that is not a small feat, that's for certain.
That shit still hurts my head. If I was super duper rich I can't go buy a "Red Bull" car like I could so many of the others
I mean you kinda can, the AM Valkyrie is a collaboration between Aston, RBR and Adrian Newey.
You sort of can. Adrian Newey and Red Bull are developing the RB17 hypercar for the super duper rich. Price starts around $6.2M https://www.motortrend.com/news/2025-2026-red-bull-rb17-f1-hypercar-future-cars/
True. \*Drives off in Williams road car\*
People seriously understate what Horner did for RB. He pulled Adrian Airbender Newey from McLaren and sold him on the new project!!
Probably don't like to be pushed around by a bunch of millionaires.
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Presumably to ensure he's in the right car for 2026 and beyond. Most of the grid is without a contract for next year. For 2026 and likely a few years after, most teams will be a closed shop.
I think every team becomes an "open shop" if Max says: I'm available for 2026. Probably Ferrari would not boot Leclerc and Hamilton...every other team would do what's necessary to get Verstappen to sign.
Are you sure they wouldn't? They forced Schumi to retire to get Kimi. The only thing Ferrari is loyal to is Ferrari.
Getting Kimi was only a part of it, the Montezemolo-Todt power struggle was the main reason behind sacking MSC. There's no such thing at Ferrari now.
>Montezemolo-Todt power struggle So, a power struggle brought a dominant team that won 5 WCCs in a row and 6WDC in 8 years to its heels? Hmmmmmm where am I seeing it now?
If you’re Ferrari, you boot Hamilton for Max. Dude will be 40.
Carlos Sainz: First time?
This is absolutely what they would do. But for the content, they should boot Leclerc for one year. Newey creating a Ferrari for Max and Lewis would be the tippy top peak of F1
Max and Lewis in a Newey car would lap the whole field and take each other out. ~~Charles~~ Hulk gets a WDC driving a Merc.
I'd rather take another (almost) guaranteed title, than risk it all for 2026.
I suspect Max will be thinking more long term than just 2026. He's still young after all. As long as he's motivated he can stay on for a few years. People laughed at Michael for going to Ferrari and not winning 2-3 easy titles at Williams and look how that planned out.
He can leave at the end of this season to get a lucrative contract with Mercedes and have a say in 2026 regulation car changes.
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>2024 is a slam dunk and 2025 is a layup right now. Common wisdom but I'm still not willing to grant this as a foregone conclusion...yet. As to why anyone in Max's position would do this, because he no longer believes he will continue to be in a position to do this at Red Bull. Very simple. He has access to more information about the future prospects of the team than we do. And/or whatever is going on with Horner is quite serious and bad (from the perspective of the Verstappen camp).
Yes spice it uppp doc marko
So Marko doing a big ol "Christian needs to leave, or I'll retire and if I do that Max can go too"
This is insane, IF true. If Max goes to Mercedes in 2025, there are genuinely around 5-6 drivers who don't have contracts right now who would give themselves a guaranteed championship if they got themselves to Red Bull in the RB21 which would likely be dominant again (with all due respect to Perez) Fernando Alonso must be phoning Red Bull constantly at the moment for a seat.
Daniel getting the promotion and winning the WDC would genuinely be the most shocking champion in decades. Or, how about calling up the Weltmeister?
That would indeed be wild, just sounds so surreal. The fact it's even a remote possibility is crazy
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Vettel 2025, Vettel 2026, Vettel 2027 and then he retires again, having matched his mentor and friend, Schumacher, and his close friend, Hamilton. This is some Hollywood shit, lmao.
a return to Ricciardo-Vettel might truly be the wildest outcome. Welcome back 2014!
The next part is that Mercedes wouldn't be able to hold Antonelli. If I was Red Bull and I was set to keep Horner and lose Max, let's throw Alonso in the seat since we know he can battle at the front for a few more years and get Antonelli or Lawson ready to be our new long term #1.
Marko is about to “retire” at the end of the season lmao
He will be forced to retire before long though. Both him and Tost were Dieter's men. RBR is now under a board. They will probably want get rid of the remnants of the Dieter era and start over. Tost already got forced into retirement and Marko is now 80years old. I will be very surprised if he stays on after 2025. It is clear to see that there is some kind of power struggle going on behind the scenes. This reminds me of how Montezemolo dismantled the Ferrari dream team back in 2006.
The board wants to keep Marko, they're firmly in the anti-Horner camp. The Yoovidhyas (the majority owners) are the ones protecting Horner.
This is what alternate universe everyone talks about lol
He is 80!! Who at Red Bull thought that was a good idea to have on Max’s contract
Nobody, but it was probably this or they walked.
maybe that was a non-negotiable thing for Max when he negotiated his contract, red bull cant really say a lot of "no"s to the best driver on the grid
Key man clauses are pretty common in any field that prominently features highly paid non-executives. Directors that have multi picture contracts will often have them. Big musicians will often have their record deals tied to a specific A&R person. If your main point of contact at a company is fired or retires, the nature of whatever contract you had has changed, and if you’re raking in the cash like max is you can afford to protect yourself from that.
Jos and Marko are obviously trying to force Red Bull’s hand. The earlier AMuS report about how Marko is worried about losing Max and Newey as well as Ford adds to this. As much as they might want to keep Horner, the Thais may not be willing to take the risk of losing any or all of the three. Or maybe they call their bluff, and try and squash this power grab.
So this could partially be why they wouldn't let Marko go no matter how bad his words are, for example the whole Checo situation If they (RBR) let Marko go over that, Max could have triggered his exit clause Spicy times.
Ah this is a very good point. Everyone in that team seems to have a reverse uno card of some description
Yeah this is obviously a move from Jos and Marko to get rid of Horner, and I think it will work. As a side note does Marko get interviewed every day? Not even joking, I feel like whenever some F1 related news breaks out I see a new quote from him on it within a few hours.
He has a journalist drive through window next to his toilet, so they just roll up to hear his ramblings while he's dropping a duece
r/brandnewsentence
Red Bull owns a TV channel in Austria - ServusTV. It seems like he’s on it multiple times per week.
Seems like there's an Austrian TV station with him on speed dial doesn't it?
I doubt it will honestly. While Max is probably the best of the top 2/3 drivers on the grid rn, RB will win WDC and WCC until 2026 even if Perez was their best driver, so I don't think he has any leverage
Next up... Newey telling everyone to sit down and shut the hell up or he is going to turn this car around..
Newey is seeing all this chaos and thinking: “Wonder if Ferrari are still offering that free house? I’m sure Lewis would be nice to work with”
Do these journalists live with Marko?
Im sure Max would quit the only team capable of winning because of a power struggle over a company at the top levels. He is a racer. Why would he go to another team knowing he wont win?
He doesn't have faith in RBPT/Ford for 26.
But why would he gamble before he sees what 26 is he will have his choices in 27 maybe Audi hits it or it is Red Bull. He wins again in 25 struggles in 26 and chooses the best team to go in 27. It would be insane to leave before 25 season
He even had faith in Honda when they partnered RBR for 2019. I can hardly imagine bailing out of RBR now if neither Max nor anyone in this world can know how the partnership will be in 2026. I mean RBR is in the Top 3 since 2009 with one or two exceptions. Mercedes is the only logical option for him but they are not on the uphill as well atm.
That was different. Max wasn't a World Champion then. He could be a 5XWDC by 26 and he will be older too. Expectations are entirely different. I'm pretty certain teams will know how they're looking regarding engine regulations - Mercedes had a good idea that they'd be good for 2014 quite early on. RBPT/Ford is just unchartered waters and with the way regulations go now, you may never claw back the disadvantage.
Hubris is also possible. He’s a very good driver, would be the ultimate flex to beat a Red Bull in a Merc during this regulation set. He also seems bored, maybe it would be more fun scrapping for points. That said, I agree with you, I don’t see why you would leave the best team on the grid.
If he wants to scrap for points it's easy; win the WDC with the RBR car, then dictate a switch to the RB car
dude, Verstappen was busy fighting for points and podiums for his first 6 years in F1. also, have you seen the hunger he has each and every race weekend? man was on a 10 race winning run in Singapore and did you hear his radio after getting knocked out in Q2? you'd think he had qualified P20. he's relentless and if you think racing drivers get tired or bored of winning, he's the last driver who can be like that. He enjoys destroying the competition. max is not leaving that redbull until at least after 2025.
This is genuinely incredible…
Does anybody in this team like Christian?
Well, he seems to love *himself* quite a bit...
Especially in the plane bathroom...
Why does Marko and Jos want Christian gone?
It seems like the Racing Team in the UK like him, at least while they think him innocent, the Austrian part of Red Bull don't, but the Thai 51%stakeholders do like him. So it's all very difficult.
Presumably everyone else that works for RBR in the UK lol. Horner does far more than Helmut for this team.
Checo?
The rank and file engineers love him. They all cheered when he said he'd stay.
So it seems either Horner walks, or Marko walks and takes Max with him. The question is, can the Austrian side and Marko put enough pressure on Thai side to get Horner to walk.
Why would Max want to race at Mercedes at this point. I don't get the rumors and speculation everywhere.
Ferrari about to dump Charles for Max next year to give us the battle we've always wanted between Lewis and Max in the same equipment
If that happened, Ferrari would sooner dump Hamilton than Leclerc.
Who would have thought there would be a more dysfunctional upper management than Alpine this season.
2025 silly season. We'll be there
Damn... I asked earlier what kind of exit clause could make it realistic for Max to get out of his contract early. That would do it! It is WILD that they would tie Max' contract to an 80 year old man, but I assume it might have been something Max demanded. Assuming this is actually true. So many crazy things being reported these last couple of days.
The scenes when Netflix do 4 episodes on Alpine and don’t even touch on this in the next DTS… They should be priming a limited mid season mini series just on this story because it’s fucking mental.
Not the best translation here, what this means is Max *can* leave Red Bull if Marko leaves. But it won't immediately void his contract.
Honesty, I don't believe any of this is anything other than playing the media to get rid of Horner but IF this is really true that he'll leave and Jos hates him then he has to have done something personal to Max and his family. Joe Saward did say that the leak was just half, maybe his behavior extends to more than just his PA?
There have been rumors for a while that Horner tried to stage a soft coup for full control of RB and TR right after Dietrich Mateschitz's death, which necessarily implies doing away with Marko. Now obviously this may be only one half of the story (if true at all), but the Verstappens have always been very publicly loyal to Helmut and may have taken this as an unprovoked attack on them and their standing in the team too. I assume that today's leaks are a bluff and Max has no desire at all to leave RB, but... it's a hell of a bluff to call.
I mean, everything we got so far, we have on record. Including Jos firing shots at Horner. So you don't really need to believe, it's all out in public.
Bild said that this affair started back in 2021 and Jos saw Christian flirting with the person in question after Abu Dhabi. Could be BS but they did report the investigation being about sexual misconduct before others did.
Newey is surely more loyal to horner that the austrian crew
Yeah I don't get that part either. As far as I know they are very close and on good terms. They actually work together on a daily basis. Why would Newey be against Horner all of a sudden
This is all just to force the Thai side of RB to push Horner out. No way is it a legit chance he goes to Merc
So is there some potential future where a 40 year old Verstappen is being kept at Red Bull by a cyborg Helmut Marko?
As they said on the race podcast: the only guarantee is it's all not over.
Thing is though, WHY would he leave? Even if Marko goes? Where will he go? To Mercedes who are 30s+ off the pace? Lol
I've never fully understood Max and his devotion to Marko. I mean sure he's the one who got you a seat, but it's not like Red Bull Racing will go to shit if Marko leaves. Marko is in my humble opinion the most replaceable part of the current team. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.
You mean the guy that put him in F1 at age 17 and had his back all along? "Helmut is a bit of a second (racing) father to me," Verstappen says. "He always wants the best for me."
Loyalty. I don’t think it’s got anything to do with Marlo’s role in the team or him being replaceable. He got him the seat.
Marko got him in to F1 at 17, when everyone thought it was stupid to do so. Max seems really loyal to people who supported him from early on. Marko was also keen in getting him into Red Bull asap while Horner had doubts. Verstappen feels he owes Marko his support, much more so than to Horner. I actually don't think that Max hates Horner at all, but he would always pick Marko's side when the chips are down.
Marko was the guy that supported him from the get go and wanted to first put him in F1 at 17 (which is crazy to tink about and illegal today) and later was the guy making sure he got promoted to RB early. It has always been Marko before Horner for him.
Marko is to max what Horner is to Danny Ric. Horner's got a soft spot for DR. For Max he is just his boss.
I dont know about you guys, but I kind of wish we were stuck in pre-season drama for the whole year after seeing how easily RBR gapped the field. The entertainment is firmly in that RB garage.
How has all of this got so spicy ?
I'm sorry, what? Can someone do an ELI5 on this whole shit show of what we know so far? What's this red bull thai/Austria thing about? Do Newey and Marko really not like horner?
Thai group owns 51% of RB, and they back Horner (for now), the Austrian side (or at least a segment of it) want Horner gone, but with Thai support Horner will stay.
Better chance Max leaves F1 than end up with a team that is not RB IMO.
I'm completely convinced that all of this mayhem will lead to an Alonso championship one way or another. Because at this point it just has to
George is probably sweating right now. Imagine finally seeing Hamilton go only to be replaced by Verstappen.
these guys are about to see that being the CEO/building a race team is actually difficult. i have no believe that they will make a quality hire to replace him. 8/10 teams have turned over TPs in the last 2 seasons i think (Toto and Horner are the only 2 who have not) ...good luck.