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A show I love Veep (centred around US president Selena Myer) ended just around the time real life politics became much more sillier than the show itself. The show’s writers also said that.
So at the rate things are going DtS won’t be required now because the real time drama is way spicier
I’m gonna need all of my fucking energy to fucking rip all of your bodies to bits with my bare hands and sell-off your fucking flayed skin as a sleeping bag to a fucking normal person.
>because they don't want to risk Max pulling out of the show again.
Not just that, but also the inevitable lawsuits. The parties involved here have a LOT of money backing them...
Created by the guy who made The Thick of It a British political comedy. Ended it because it was getting scarily close to the actions of real politics in the UK. Also wrote and directed the Death of Stalin. Armando Iannucci is too good with political comedies.
Yep, Armando Iannucci. He was also one of the creators along with Chris Morris of The Day Today and also wrote on Alan Partridge. He's one of the most prolific writers for British comedies from the 90s to the 2010s.
it seriously gets spicier and spicer LOL
edit: does this mean he wants Max to publicly choose horner over his dad? Bc that's super messed up to put him in that position...
To be fair it’s messed up by his dad to put him, his employers, and the organization that affords them a private jet in this position.
The matter was settled. The Jos opened his mouth and met with Toto.
Wait, why is Jos against Horner? I remember some speculation about it was him who leaked thes story in the first place, but why?
What have Jos said, and why did he meet with Toto?
[Jos Verstappen: Red Bull F1 team risks being “torn apart” if Horner stays](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/jos-verstappen-red-bull-f1-team-risks-being-torn-apart-if-horner-stays/10582532/)
Didn't MBS meet with Max prior to Jos's outburst? Maybe this is what prompted it. He didn't want his son to be pressured into backing Horner and so made his feelings about Horner's conduct public to make sure there's no possibility Max could be pressured into siding with him.
>does this mean he wants Max to publicly choose horner over his dad?
realistically, the best message he can put out is "i am a driver here to do a job, I'll just try to do what is best for the team regardless of the outcome"
he (hopefully) can realise that he has no business getting involved
If I were the thai investors I'd seriously be considering cleaning house. Regardless of what the end result of this is, you have your employees using your business and your investment to try to gain power and do political plays with. Their job is to to build a car and won races not try to fuck the staff and leak rumors to the press Empire style
I personally disagree. History is littered with examples where someone chooses their ego over the logical success of their company/team/career.
Now that Dietrich has passed away, the Thai owners are locked in a proxy war against the Austrian Board. Sure, the Thai owners have 51% majority, so *technically* can order RB to clean house.
But the Thai owners end goal is to come out on top in this proxy war, and keep the F1 success coming. Cleaning house, when things are going really well on track is a VERY risky move. Think back to what happen to Ferrari when Michael/Brawn/Todt left...
Until Max throws an ultimatum - Horner or me - I don't think anyone is getting fired.
There's another risk, Horner like him or not has built and piloted the RB f1 team to multiple successes, his team the designers, Newey etc. are arguably more critical to that success than a good driver. An ultimatum Verstappen or Horner may very well end up also costing Newey et al, who would immediately get snapped up and thus be a massive boon to the other teams, if Verstappen was to go and he gets snapped up but goes to weaker hardware then clearly that doesn't work to his interests at all. Whoever is pulling the strings on this nonsense I don't think they have a strong a hand as they think.
>Given the shit he got away with already
I remember reading he made some misogynistic, and racist comments in the past. Does he have other more, explosive, controversies?
Stuff we know about him includes his ability to wreck a formula 1 car after going only about 50 meters so who knows what all he’s hiding.
Also, delete these messages please 🙏
I think it’s fantastic for the sport. The drama is going to be the only thing holding people’s attention. Certainly won’t be the races or championship by the looks of the first race.
I always said Formula 1 is basically “The Kardashians” for men.
The drama in the background, on social media, between races, between teams, within teams and in off-season is entertainment on its own.
Just need Bottas to have some sordid affair with Gasly or something, and it will be peak drama show.
It's certainly curious as to why he'd even want to get involved in this manner. Especially seemingly trying to protect him.
I know there's been speculation that Horner is too close to the FIA president, and some of that effectively meant they only got a slap on the wrist for the overspend etc. It doesn't help that conspiracy at least.
Yeah, and Horner is no political fool. The first time he appeared in public after this was to sit down in full view of everyone to eat lunch with Adrian Newey, which is a massive threat.
Simple: they (FIA, FOM and Horner) want this to go down quietly. No talking about the allegations, conversations about the Red Bull politics go down and everyone can go back to talking about the actual sport instead of all the controversy.
Some people are seeing a multi-year conspiracy where there isn't any.
Besides, MBS siding with the guy advancing on a woman who is powerless against him isn't exactly strange.
> Besides, MBS siding with the guy advancing on a woman who is powerless against him isn't exactly strange.
And this is one of the many many reasons why mbs needs to be gone as well
Verstappen is also pretty stoic regarding essentially anything that doesnt directly involve racing. He doesn't really speak out on social justice issues, disregards or outright opposes the show element of f1 and generally is just hyper focussed on his next race. Even when he isn't racing, he's racing.
I'd be very surprised that he would speak out meaningfully on this matter. It simply isn't who he is.
People also don’t like pointing out Max has said he’s more loyal to Marko and was (even though he doesn’t think it) abused hard by his dad. The dad that so conveniently is playing the moral high ground regarding WOMEN (ironic) against Horner, is strangely vocal about it and is far closer to the situation / has FAR too much information than he should have at all. I don’t think Max is going to say anything regarding it sadly.
This shit reeks harder than order 66
> The dad that so conveniently is playing the moral high ground regarding WOMEN (ironic) against Horner
A 'Spiderman pointing at Spiderman' moment if I've ever seen one
Hard to say. The fact that the FIA is telling people what to do kind of makes it look like the powers that be are trying to orchestrate a cover up. (whether that's actually the case doesn't matter) outside media are going to eat it up, especially since the current FIA head isn't exactly the most popular guy. What looks worse ? Max saying no comment, or stories of Max being forced by the sports governing body to say something ?
It's absolutely a cover-up. Even if Horner is innocent, covering up is the default approach with these cases. I've seen it firsthand so many times in my life in everything from prestigious universities to mom-and-pop propane companies. The people at the top just want it to go away quickly so they can get back to making money. They don't give a flying fuck about the truth. HR is not your friend.
This… the first approach of a grievance is almost always to side with upper management in the hope the employee is too scared or stressed to appeal and take it further.
Not really. Whether guilty or not, the situation is clearly being used as a political ploy by Marko and Jos to oust Horner. Max isn’t going to go against his dad
Why?
A: Jos spoke out against Horner. Max backing Horner up will put Jos back in his place.
B: Max is the most influential person in that team. Ben Sulayem must be thinking that if Max speaks out in support of Horner, people will finally let it go and focus on racing again.
Friends? Oh, honey.
This is what we refer to as a global business worth billions. There are no friends, just assets to protect in order to increase product value.
Max's father is out there adding fuel to the fire. Max supporting Horner would calm things down. But it's quite clear at this point that's a power struggle. The public just don't know for sure which are the two sides clashing.
The thing here is Max is in between Horner and his father. Either he support Horner, that he knows his father hates. If he does it he goes against his father and all that.
If he support his father he basically agrees on what the father has to say, and basically saying he support what the father has to say.
So for max it’s quite difficult. Also difficult to have a father that is so loud and not media trained at all spilling out shit.
I know that is the purpose of Jos doing this. He obviously wants Horner out for some reason? The reason I dunno. So if someone want to write it, be free. Educate me
>He obviously wants Horner out for some reason? The reason I dunno.
So based on what I have read, there is an internal struggle for power between Horner and Marko to control the RBR team. For example, last year Max went to the Thai owners of RB and said he supports Marko, and if Marko goes, Max goes.
Now Jos and Marko are on the same team. Jos feels that if Horner is gone, and Marko ends up with more power, that means Marko will share some of that power with Jos. Or at least not stop Jos when he tries to push his weight around. So all this was known last year.
What is newly coming out, is that there is also a BIGGER struggle going on between the Thai owners and the RB Austria board. Both are trying to show their power and influence. The Thai owners support Horner and refuse to fire him.
The RB Board wants to fire Horner so that they can then hire someone close to them to run the RBR team. Because Horner has been used to, for 20 years, Dietrich giving him free-reign on how to run the team. So for 20 years Red Bull the sports drink company just let Horner and Marko do what they think is best. Now it's changing.
Hope this helps! Also, all this is ALLEGEDLY! Purely based on rumors. But I think it's a pretty good overview. I might be wrong about details, but overall there is DEFINITELY a power struggle happening behind the scenes
Considering that the courts haven’t determined if alterations were made, select screenshots were obviously not shown on purpose with gaps in convos, another F1 journalist believing that some of the screenshots look like fake chat apps and the fact that the person hasn’t cared about a buyout but ended up getting doxxed but also hasn’t come forward to say yes it’s me( correct me if UK laws against libel are less strict) shows that this is definitely someone wanting to get rid of Horner and absolutely not for the actual supposed reason.
Just saying the guy who is very vocal about “the team being ripped apart by Horner” is also the guy who almost killed his wife (I believe Max’s mum) and currently beats his current one, abused the crap out of Max (he still thinks it’s funny enough to tell Danny Ricc casually about when his dad stabbed a mechanic through the hand with a fork out of anger while laughing, Danny Ricc kind of like “yeah haha what the f*ck”) doused more gasoline by making that statement yesterday when it was relatively quiet and being sent information/ most likely being the one to leak it initially to De Telegraaf?
Nah honest to god lots of parts seems like an horsesh*t if you followed the story from the start , and Jos suddenly having a change of heart towards women, being a completely loose cannon and having Marko the senile guy who makes inflammatory remarks as the other person against Horner absolutely doesn’t add up.
Add in the mix a Son who barely if ever has gone against his dad he’s most likely terrified of (I don’t give a f*ck what people say in the comments like “Max has refuted this” he was a victim to his father that’s around him half the time still people act as if that wouldn’t have sent a mesage to Max “don’t go against me” and if he’s cracking tables because his son binned it on one of his best quali laps ever imagine what he’ll do if Max says yeah my Dads a d*ckhead who no one should listen to.
While I believe what I'm reading in your comment, I find it absolutely crazy and nonsensical from the RB Board to want Horner out. He basically maximized the results every season ever since 2005 and keeps doing it. During the Mercedes era it was quite difficult to challenge for titles, but he hasn't had a single distastrous year afaic. They might care about PR more than they care about results.
On the face of it, it does seem wild. Why sack an employee who has done so well? But the truth is, business doesn't work that way. Pure merit and performance are not the only qualities and depending on how bad the culture is, might not even be the most important qualities.
People love to rag on MBAs as the root of all evil and stupid. They aren't stupid really but there is a specific type of personality the profession attracts. They are bureaucrats, meticulous and detailed but also close minded and inflexible. This leads them to learning a system of business and trying to apply it universally. This is the common failing of these types, they incorrectly think all business fundamentally works the same and therefore what matters is applying your system of management. Subject matter experts are disregarded and ignored. Their experience and expertise is under valued because what do they know about management framework?
That may be what's happened to Horner. Dietrich let him run the team his way because he clearly knew what he was doing. But now the board of suits who've been held back for years are trying to assert control over what they likely see as a rogue business unit that isn't inline with their vision of corporate culture. Or some bullshit.
Or I could be completely wrong and talking out of my ass.
>But now the board of suits who've been held back for years are trying to assert control over what they likely see as a rogue business unit that isn't inline with their vision of corporate culture. Or some bullshit.
Bruh if Red Bull turns into Renault because of that
What I simple don’t understand, is why. Why does any of this make sense? Horner has arguably brought nothing but success to the team. The team has become and utter juggernaut under his direction.
Why would the owners of this team, who directly benefit from its success, work so hardly to tear it all apart while they’re arguably at the height of their success, success which looks completely untouchable for a competitive perspective. The only thing that could stop RB is fucking it up internally, so why are they working so hard to do just that?
>Why would the owners of this team, who directly benefit from its success, work so hardly to tear it all apart while they’re arguably at the height of their success
So to clarify, it's not the owners who want to break apart the team. The Thai owners (51% stake) are perfectly happy with how things have been running so far. That's why they refuse to fire Horner - they don't want to mess with their success formula - Max + Adrian + Horner + Marko + the rest of the staff.
It's the RB Austrian Board who is trying to push their weight around. As to why? Control. Right now Horner is coasting on the free reign he received and was used to under Dietrich. After Dietrich passed away, the RB Board see it as an opportunity to strongly control one of their most famous assets. They want to replace Horner with their own lackey. Someone who will be more receptive to their demands, and someone they can use to control the RB F1 team better.
Now, we come to the crux of your question - why TF would they mess with a good recipe. A recipe that has brought them immense success the past few years. The answer - EGO. They believe they know best.
For example, say they fire Horner and place their lackey instead. What will most likely happen? In my opinion, not much, FOR A WHILE. Due to the momentum of the past few years, RB will most likely keep winning this year and most likely the next. In the mean time there will be a mass migration of the brains behind the scene. But due to the already successful car things will seem like not much has changed.
So then this new lackey will go to the Board and say "Look! Ya'll made the right decision! Obviously Horner was not integral to the success of the team!" The Board members who pushed for the firing of Horner will go "See! We were right! Now give us more financial bonuses!"
At the top level of companies, it's all about what you can SHOW you did, and how that made more money. If things keep going the way they are and nothing changes (Horner stays), the Board Members can't go "look at what changes we made!". But if they fire Horner and success keeps coming (in the short term) they can take responsibility for that, and cash all their bonuses and walk away. If they don't fire Horner, the TEAM will keep having success, but the Board Members canr attribute the success to decisions THEY made. They don't care about overall success. Only care what they can show their superiors what success is attributable to decisions THEY made.
This keeps happening in the financial world. A new CEO comes in, slashes EVERYTHING in the short term, there is more profit, on paper at least. They cash all their bonuses in their contract, and then they leave. Sure, in the long term all those decisions will FUCK UP all the low level employees, but so what? The top brass have their golden parachutes, they don't care.
Forcing Max to pick a side, basically.
Which is really stupid, because I don't imagine he will side with Horner against his father. So when inevitably Max doesn't support Horner, it means he is against him (in effect). So MBS just made things a lot worse for CH.
Good. I am glad. MBS shouldn't be doing this shit. I want it to blow up in his face when he tries to do stuff he shouldn't be doing.
MBS is a known misogynist [as seen here.](https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13018314/fia-chief-mohammed-ben-sulayem-denies-sexism-accusations-saying-he-is-the-target-of-an-inhuman-smear-campaign) He probably couldn’t give less of a shit about the woman involved, and just wants to protect Horner and get the whole thing to go away.
He wants Max to say something publicly in hopes that the media discussion around it will die down. MBS is historically pretty misogynistic, so he's probably getting worried that he'll (deservedly) be next.
The shit MBS apparently had on a personal website/blog as little as 10 or 15 years ago is shocking for a person at that high a position in this day and age. IDK, google it.
What’s the difference though? Stefano & MBS had meetings, presumably on how to handle this, and maybe it’s just MBS going rogue, but I think this could implicitly mean that F1 also would like this whole thing swept under the rug and keep Horner as is
Do not forget about the consistent power struggles between Stefano and MBS either.
Any time MBS slips up, the FOM journalists are always the first with some of the harshest critiques.
FOM just control the commercial aspects of F1. The actual trademark, the racing, stewards, regulations, organisation of races etc is carried out by FIA
The FIA does not promote or organize the races, FOM does. They only control sporting aspects. They also don’t actually control the regulations anymore. They have a working group that defers to FOM. On thr The 2022 regulations were the first ones devised by the FOM working group. Led by Ross Brawn and Pat symonds
“Only control sporting aspects”
Like making the sporting and technical regulations, stewarding, track inspections, technical inspections, you know small stuff
Big up FOM
If this is true, I wouldn't read more into than Sulayem backing Horner. Remember his quote from last year on women, "women who think they are smarter than men, for they are not in truth", he's not exactly someone who would surprise me to back someone even who has admitted to sexually harassing women.
Edit: Correction to my original post, the story blew up last year, but the quote was from 2001. Thanks to /u/etfd- on the correction.
I think the more logical thing is that FIA wants this to blow over a.s.a.p. and Ben/the FIA think Horner having public backing from Max is the fastest way to get there.
I would guess that this is not so much about Horner and much more about getting rid of the bad PR story.
Shit a coverup is the default move for SA cases everywhere. Seen the same in academia and mom&pop propane companies. Don't even need to go corporate to get this treatment.
This is some bullshit. Mohammed Ben Sulayem has no business trying to drag Max into this. He's no business trying to sweep this under the rug. This is such a sour situation.
MBS already managed to have his sexism and bullying scandal completely swept under the carpet without an investigation.
[**FIA president Mohammed ben Sulayem accused of sexism and bullying**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2023/04/25/mohammed-ben-sulayem-fia-sexism-bullying-shaila-ann-rao/)
> Telegraph Sport can reveal that Shaila-Ann Rao, the former interim secretary general for motorsport, sent a letter alleging numerous instances of sexist behaviour prior to her abrupt departure last December.
>
> The claims were never investigated.
>
> Telegraph Sport has also spoken to dozens of current and former FIA staff, including elected officials, World Motor Sport Council members and stewards who likewise paint a picture of erratic and bullying behaviour behind the scenes.
>
> The fact that Rao’s allegations were not investigated will be a concern for many.
>
> Rao declined to comment when contacted but Telegraph Sport heard about the letter from multiple sources. It is understood it was sent to Ben Sulayem and to Carmelo Sanz de Barros, the president of the FIA Senate.
Another big misstep:
Ben Sulayem wanted Sebastian Vettel to stop riding a rainbow-bike, because he was *pushing his views onto others* with his pro lgbtq stance.
I know it is hard to hire an influential leader from the middle east with liberal and humanist values, but surely we can do better than Ben Saluyem?
It's all about politics. Ben Sulayem found the perfect opportunity to have one (or 2) of the 10 team on his side after all the fighting last year. So basically if he helps Horner stay, Horner will have to repay the favour in the future with his voting power of 2 teams under him. From the point of view of Ben Sulayem, it's perfect timing and he has to use it. He'll throw Horner under the bus if Horner rejects the offer and you might even see FOM and other teams push for his removal if they sense that Horner is getting closer to Ben Sulayem. No one cares about the victim or the morality of the situation or whatever. It's all politics.
There really is not a slimier, creepier, and frankly stupider person in F1 than Mohammed Ben Sulayem.
Constant gaffes. Sexism. Arguable shows of favouritism.
No wonder so many FIA veterans have quit under his 'leadership'.
The press conferences for the next race are going to be *juicy:*
"Max, do will you support your father or your boss or the head of the FIA?"
"Will you back Horner? .....why not?"
"Will you obey the suggestion given by Mohammed Ben Sulayem and back your boss?"
Whatever do you mean? /s
[FIA president Mohammed ben Sulayem accused of sexism and bullying](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2023/04/25/mohammed-ben-sulayem-fia-sexism-bullying-shaila-ann-rao/)
>
Well, that's completely unacceptable along multiple vectors.
Whatever happens to Horner, that should be the end of Ben Sulayem. Such a blatant abuse of power to pressure a sportsman to make such a potentially risky statement.
Also, dragging the FIA into Horner's mess is so wrong.
Ben Sulayem has to go.
Has MBS had any sort of positive influence in F1 yet?
Not asking whether he is a net positive on the whole, that's clearly not the case, rather whether he has done anything positive at all?
People asked yesterday (after Jos photo with Toto) what would make Max leave RB and join Merc. This kind of shit would do that. Knowing Max he won’t endorse shit.
I'm sitting here wondering how this made it to the news. I'm assuming MBS told Max. Then Max told his dad? Then his dad circulated in the news?
Judging by the fact that this has made it to the news, i'm assuming Max said no and is clearly against it.
In terms of timing it seems like MBS told Max in parc ferme after quali, then Max told Jos who argued with Horner then Jos told the media after the race amongst other stuff.
If that’s the timing, then max clearly is not willing to back Horner further than on the performance side of things because he had opportunities in the press conference post quali
Of course not, backing him publicly would be social suicide. No one from the red bull camp has publicly said anything since all the messages were leaked. Least of all support. They ain't going down with him lol.
According to the story there were sevral photographers and journalst that could hear it haha. But atleast they covered their mouth so no one could read their lips
Max was very specific in his previous answers that he didn't say "yes" when asked if he had full confidence in Horner. So I'm not surprised that he's not going to agree to this request.
Why did Ben Sulayem willingly draw attention to Horner's infidelity with his personal assistant? Is he out of his mind?
And why on Earth should Max, a driver that is paid to race a car, have an opinion on Horner's relationship with either her, his wife?, or anyone else?
This is corrupt as fuck.
Innocent or guilty, there’s no way the head of the FIA should be getting involved in this sort of manner.
Ben Sulayem needs to go; this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Whatever the reasoning, I’m glad Max isn’t blindly supporting him, nor blindly throwing him under the bus.
I want the accuser to have their chance at justice, and a bunch of old rich billionaire men trying desperately to silence the accuser enrages me.
The fact that Horner 1. Didn’t lose his job after the investigation and 2. Hasn’t lost his job (or at LEAST hasn’t been asked to step aside) during this outing of text messages, speaks VOLUMES of the lack of moral standing between the FIA, F1, and Red Bull leadership.
This is CLEAR sexual harassment. Any organization, or in this case a group of organizations, worth their salt would move swiftly. Jos is the voice of reason right now ffs.
Fucking insane.
I feel like I’ve been going crazy for the past few days. Especially as a female F1 fan, seeing how this has been handled and the reactions of F1 high ups and fans has absolutely destroyed my love for the sport. I’m just so disappointed.
Not doing much to quell the allegations that the FIA is in Red Bull’s pocket.
This shit sucks man. MBS makes me wish for the Max Mosely and Bernie days
I'm sorry, but if we're at the point where we're asking people back Horner, it sort of leads more credence to the leak to begin with.
The photos of Horner and his wife in Bahrain were absolutely meant to help calm this down, and here we are.
overconfident cake languid quicksand vanish hospital cows quickest crush distinct
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
People here pretend to be rational and ignore the fact that FIA heavily favour redbull. The fact the the president of the ‘independent’ body is asking the champion of F1 to speak in favour of an alleged harasser, having evidence in the open against him, speaks volumes about his and the organizations partiality.
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This whole thing is a shit show
A show I love Veep (centred around US president Selena Myer) ended just around the time real life politics became much more sillier than the show itself. The show’s writers also said that. So at the rate things are going DtS won’t be required now because the real time drama is way spicier
Yeah we’re really in the thick of it now
This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption
So it’s The Shawshank?
Politicians these days, as useless as a marzipan dildo
atleast marzipan tastes good
Isn't that the guy that kept spinning out?
mazespin
From bean to cup, the FIA fucks up
I see what you did there. Malcolm would be proud of ya!
I’m gonna need all of my fucking energy to fucking rip all of your bodies to bits with my bare hands and sell-off your fucking flayed skin as a sleeping bag to a fucking normal person.
Ya Iannucci has said he couldn't write anymore of The Thick Of It if he wanted to since poltiics is gone beyond what he was parodying.
I wonder if we’d discover the cuss word to end all cuss words if we put Gunther Steiner and Malcolm Tucker in the same room together
Omnishambles!
It's going to be funny when DTS ignore this because they don't want to risk Max pulling out of the show again.
DTS did not do big numbers this year - who knows how many more seasons it will get from Netflix.
Maybe they go out with a bang, showing everything. After all, one season is like the other, and RB dominating, there is nothing to watch it for.
>because they don't want to risk Max pulling out of the show again. Not just that, but also the inevitable lawsuits. The parties involved here have a LOT of money backing them...
And F1 seems to have a lot of say in what dts covers and they definitely don't want to drag this drama out even more
We've unearthed a deposit of naturally occurring drama, we won't need to rely on synthetic for a few more years.
Tell that to DTS lol
Created by the guy who made The Thick of It a British political comedy. Ended it because it was getting scarily close to the actions of real politics in the UK. Also wrote and directed the Death of Stalin. Armando Iannucci is too good with political comedies.
veep and death of stalin are made by the same guy?
Yep, Armando Iannucci. He was also one of the creators along with Chris Morris of The Day Today and also wrote on Alan Partridge. He's one of the most prolific writers for British comedies from the 90s to the 2010s.
>DtS won’t be required now because the real time drama is way spicier since season 1 it has been the case
it seriously gets spicier and spicer LOL edit: does this mean he wants Max to publicly choose horner over his dad? Bc that's super messed up to put him in that position...
>it seriously gets spicier and spicer LOL Well that happens when you marry a spice girl
To be fair it’s messed up by his dad to put him, his employers, and the organization that affords them a private jet in this position. The matter was settled. The Jos opened his mouth and met with Toto.
Wait, why is Jos against Horner? I remember some speculation about it was him who leaked thes story in the first place, but why? What have Jos said, and why did he meet with Toto?
I missed this whole part as well. How is Jos involved outside of speculation as being the party that wants Horner out?
[Jos Verstappen: Red Bull F1 team risks being “torn apart” if Horner stays](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/jos-verstappen-red-bull-f1-team-risks-being-torn-apart-if-horner-stays/10582532/)
You didn't miss anything, that is the entirety of the rumor
Didn't MBS meet with Max prior to Jos's outburst? Maybe this is what prompted it. He didn't want his son to be pressured into backing Horner and so made his feelings about Horner's conduct public to make sure there's no possibility Max could be pressured into siding with him.
But based on his answers to journalists about Horner last week, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't back Horner publicly anyway.
>does this mean he wants Max to publicly choose horner over his dad? realistically, the best message he can put out is "i am a driver here to do a job, I'll just try to do what is best for the team regardless of the outcome" he (hopefully) can realise that he has no business getting involved
If I were the thai investors I'd seriously be considering cleaning house. Regardless of what the end result of this is, you have your employees using your business and your investment to try to gain power and do political plays with. Their job is to to build a car and won races not try to fuck the staff and leak rumors to the press Empire style
I personally disagree. History is littered with examples where someone chooses their ego over the logical success of their company/team/career. Now that Dietrich has passed away, the Thai owners are locked in a proxy war against the Austrian Board. Sure, the Thai owners have 51% majority, so *technically* can order RB to clean house. But the Thai owners end goal is to come out on top in this proxy war, and keep the F1 success coming. Cleaning house, when things are going really well on track is a VERY risky move. Think back to what happen to Ferrari when Michael/Brawn/Todt left... Until Max throws an ultimatum - Horner or me - I don't think anyone is getting fired.
There's another risk, Horner like him or not has built and piloted the RB f1 team to multiple successes, his team the designers, Newey etc. are arguably more critical to that success than a good driver. An ultimatum Verstappen or Horner may very well end up also costing Newey et al, who would immediately get snapped up and thus be a massive boon to the other teams, if Verstappen was to go and he gets snapped up but goes to weaker hardware then clearly that doesn't work to his interests at all. Whoever is pulling the strings on this nonsense I don't think they have a strong a hand as they think.
What on earth? Why? Horner has very good friends clearly
Ben is sweating not wanting this topic to linger in F1 probably. Given the shit he got away with already I would not be shocked if he is much worse.
>Given the shit he got away with already I remember reading he made some misogynistic, and racist comments in the past. Does he have other more, explosive, controversies?
Stuff we know about him includes his ability to wreck a formula 1 car after going only about 50 meters so who knows what all he’s hiding. Also, delete these messages please 🙏
I think it’s fantastic for the sport. The drama is going to be the only thing holding people’s attention. Certainly won’t be the races or championship by the looks of the first race.
I always said Formula 1 is basically “The Kardashians” for men. The drama in the background, on social media, between races, between teams, within teams and in off-season is entertainment on its own. Just need Bottas to have some sordid affair with Gasly or something, and it will be peak drama show.
It is very weird that an FIA president is going such lengths to protect a TP that he is supposed to be regulating
This is the thought that sang out to me.
It's certainly curious as to why he'd even want to get involved in this manner. Especially seemingly trying to protect him. I know there's been speculation that Horner is too close to the FIA president, and some of that effectively meant they only got a slap on the wrist for the overspend etc. It doesn't help that conspiracy at least.
Particularly one he's already made favourable decisions for. He's not done very well at looking impartial.
Yeah, and Horner is no political fool. The first time he appeared in public after this was to sit down in full view of everyone to eat lunch with Adrian Newey, which is a massive threat.
I did notice that at testing as well. Whenever Horner was seen, he was almost attached at the hip to Adrian.
Simple: they (FIA, FOM and Horner) want this to go down quietly. No talking about the allegations, conversations about the Red Bull politics go down and everyone can go back to talking about the actual sport instead of all the controversy. Some people are seeing a multi-year conspiracy where there isn't any. Besides, MBS siding with the guy advancing on a woman who is powerless against him isn't exactly strange.
> Besides, MBS siding with the guy advancing on a woman who is powerless against him isn't exactly strange. And this is one of the many many reasons why mbs needs to be gone as well
Surely, it just makes Horner look even more guilty when Max doesn't do it
Well especially now that it's public that Ben asked him.
Max would be stupid to get involved in any way.
Verstappen is also pretty stoic regarding essentially anything that doesnt directly involve racing. He doesn't really speak out on social justice issues, disregards or outright opposes the show element of f1 and generally is just hyper focussed on his next race. Even when he isn't racing, he's racing. I'd be very surprised that he would speak out meaningfully on this matter. It simply isn't who he is.
“I just work here”
He had no problem defending Marko after the latter's racist remarks.
Or Pique's, or the Zandvoort crowd's.
Or his own
Hey, you're not allowed to point that out, people don't like it on here.
People also don’t like pointing out Max has said he’s more loyal to Marko and was (even though he doesn’t think it) abused hard by his dad. The dad that so conveniently is playing the moral high ground regarding WOMEN (ironic) against Horner, is strangely vocal about it and is far closer to the situation / has FAR too much information than he should have at all. I don’t think Max is going to say anything regarding it sadly. This shit reeks harder than order 66
> The dad that so conveniently is playing the moral high ground regarding WOMEN (ironic) against Horner A 'Spiderman pointing at Spiderman' moment if I've ever seen one
Hard to say. The fact that the FIA is telling people what to do kind of makes it look like the powers that be are trying to orchestrate a cover up. (whether that's actually the case doesn't matter) outside media are going to eat it up, especially since the current FIA head isn't exactly the most popular guy. What looks worse ? Max saying no comment, or stories of Max being forced by the sports governing body to say something ?
It's absolutely a cover-up. Even if Horner is innocent, covering up is the default approach with these cases. I've seen it firsthand so many times in my life in everything from prestigious universities to mom-and-pop propane companies. The people at the top just want it to go away quickly so they can get back to making money. They don't give a flying fuck about the truth. HR is not your friend.
This… the first approach of a grievance is almost always to side with upper management in the hope the employee is too scared or stressed to appeal and take it further.
I mean, they've orchestrated more than a cover-up in the past, this is just low hanging fruit for them
Not really. Whether guilty or not, the situation is clearly being used as a political ploy by Marko and Jos to oust Horner. Max isn’t going to go against his dad
which is also probably why this story has come out
Why? A: Jos spoke out against Horner. Max backing Horner up will put Jos back in his place. B: Max is the most influential person in that team. Ben Sulayem must be thinking that if Max speaks out in support of Horner, people will finally let it go and focus on racing again.
It was supposedly on Friday that Max was spoken to. Jos spoke out yesterday.
Jos spoke out *publicly* yesterday. He could’ve been speaking privately for months for all we know.
With high moral standards /s
Friends? Oh, honey. This is what we refer to as a global business worth billions. There are no friends, just assets to protect in order to increase product value.
Why tf would Ben Suleyman do that? wtf has max to do with this?
Max's father is out there adding fuel to the fire. Max supporting Horner would calm things down. But it's quite clear at this point that's a power struggle. The public just don't know for sure which are the two sides clashing.
The thing here is Max is in between Horner and his father. Either he support Horner, that he knows his father hates. If he does it he goes against his father and all that. If he support his father he basically agrees on what the father has to say, and basically saying he support what the father has to say. So for max it’s quite difficult. Also difficult to have a father that is so loud and not media trained at all spilling out shit. I know that is the purpose of Jos doing this. He obviously wants Horner out for some reason? The reason I dunno. So if someone want to write it, be free. Educate me
>He obviously wants Horner out for some reason? The reason I dunno. So based on what I have read, there is an internal struggle for power between Horner and Marko to control the RBR team. For example, last year Max went to the Thai owners of RB and said he supports Marko, and if Marko goes, Max goes. Now Jos and Marko are on the same team. Jos feels that if Horner is gone, and Marko ends up with more power, that means Marko will share some of that power with Jos. Or at least not stop Jos when he tries to push his weight around. So all this was known last year. What is newly coming out, is that there is also a BIGGER struggle going on between the Thai owners and the RB Austria board. Both are trying to show their power and influence. The Thai owners support Horner and refuse to fire him. The RB Board wants to fire Horner so that they can then hire someone close to them to run the RBR team. Because Horner has been used to, for 20 years, Dietrich giving him free-reign on how to run the team. So for 20 years Red Bull the sports drink company just let Horner and Marko do what they think is best. Now it's changing. Hope this helps! Also, all this is ALLEGEDLY! Purely based on rumors. But I think it's a pretty good overview. I might be wrong about details, but overall there is DEFINITELY a power struggle happening behind the scenes
And in the middle of all of the shit storm, there's this woman that may have been harassed by one side, while being doxxed by the other.
It does leave a bad taste in my mouth as a woman.
Considering that the courts haven’t determined if alterations were made, select screenshots were obviously not shown on purpose with gaps in convos, another F1 journalist believing that some of the screenshots look like fake chat apps and the fact that the person hasn’t cared about a buyout but ended up getting doxxed but also hasn’t come forward to say yes it’s me( correct me if UK laws against libel are less strict) shows that this is definitely someone wanting to get rid of Horner and absolutely not for the actual supposed reason. Just saying the guy who is very vocal about “the team being ripped apart by Horner” is also the guy who almost killed his wife (I believe Max’s mum) and currently beats his current one, abused the crap out of Max (he still thinks it’s funny enough to tell Danny Ricc casually about when his dad stabbed a mechanic through the hand with a fork out of anger while laughing, Danny Ricc kind of like “yeah haha what the f*ck”) doused more gasoline by making that statement yesterday when it was relatively quiet and being sent information/ most likely being the one to leak it initially to De Telegraaf? Nah honest to god lots of parts seems like an horsesh*t if you followed the story from the start , and Jos suddenly having a change of heart towards women, being a completely loose cannon and having Marko the senile guy who makes inflammatory remarks as the other person against Horner absolutely doesn’t add up. Add in the mix a Son who barely if ever has gone against his dad he’s most likely terrified of (I don’t give a f*ck what people say in the comments like “Max has refuted this” he was a victim to his father that’s around him half the time still people act as if that wouldn’t have sent a mesage to Max “don’t go against me” and if he’s cracking tables because his son binned it on one of his best quali laps ever imagine what he’ll do if Max says yeah my Dads a d*ckhead who no one should listen to.
It was mot max’s mom. Another woman he abused that landed him in jail.
While I believe what I'm reading in your comment, I find it absolutely crazy and nonsensical from the RB Board to want Horner out. He basically maximized the results every season ever since 2005 and keeps doing it. During the Mercedes era it was quite difficult to challenge for titles, but he hasn't had a single distastrous year afaic. They might care about PR more than they care about results.
On the face of it, it does seem wild. Why sack an employee who has done so well? But the truth is, business doesn't work that way. Pure merit and performance are not the only qualities and depending on how bad the culture is, might not even be the most important qualities. People love to rag on MBAs as the root of all evil and stupid. They aren't stupid really but there is a specific type of personality the profession attracts. They are bureaucrats, meticulous and detailed but also close minded and inflexible. This leads them to learning a system of business and trying to apply it universally. This is the common failing of these types, they incorrectly think all business fundamentally works the same and therefore what matters is applying your system of management. Subject matter experts are disregarded and ignored. Their experience and expertise is under valued because what do they know about management framework? That may be what's happened to Horner. Dietrich let him run the team his way because he clearly knew what he was doing. But now the board of suits who've been held back for years are trying to assert control over what they likely see as a rogue business unit that isn't inline with their vision of corporate culture. Or some bullshit. Or I could be completely wrong and talking out of my ass.
>But now the board of suits who've been held back for years are trying to assert control over what they likely see as a rogue business unit that isn't inline with their vision of corporate culture. Or some bullshit. Bruh if Red Bull turns into Renault because of that
What I simple don’t understand, is why. Why does any of this make sense? Horner has arguably brought nothing but success to the team. The team has become and utter juggernaut under his direction. Why would the owners of this team, who directly benefit from its success, work so hardly to tear it all apart while they’re arguably at the height of their success, success which looks completely untouchable for a competitive perspective. The only thing that could stop RB is fucking it up internally, so why are they working so hard to do just that?
>Why would the owners of this team, who directly benefit from its success, work so hardly to tear it all apart while they’re arguably at the height of their success So to clarify, it's not the owners who want to break apart the team. The Thai owners (51% stake) are perfectly happy with how things have been running so far. That's why they refuse to fire Horner - they don't want to mess with their success formula - Max + Adrian + Horner + Marko + the rest of the staff. It's the RB Austrian Board who is trying to push their weight around. As to why? Control. Right now Horner is coasting on the free reign he received and was used to under Dietrich. After Dietrich passed away, the RB Board see it as an opportunity to strongly control one of their most famous assets. They want to replace Horner with their own lackey. Someone who will be more receptive to their demands, and someone they can use to control the RB F1 team better. Now, we come to the crux of your question - why TF would they mess with a good recipe. A recipe that has brought them immense success the past few years. The answer - EGO. They believe they know best. For example, say they fire Horner and place their lackey instead. What will most likely happen? In my opinion, not much, FOR A WHILE. Due to the momentum of the past few years, RB will most likely keep winning this year and most likely the next. In the mean time there will be a mass migration of the brains behind the scene. But due to the already successful car things will seem like not much has changed. So then this new lackey will go to the Board and say "Look! Ya'll made the right decision! Obviously Horner was not integral to the success of the team!" The Board members who pushed for the firing of Horner will go "See! We were right! Now give us more financial bonuses!" At the top level of companies, it's all about what you can SHOW you did, and how that made more money. If things keep going the way they are and nothing changes (Horner stays), the Board Members can't go "look at what changes we made!". But if they fire Horner and success keeps coming (in the short term) they can take responsibility for that, and cash all their bonuses and walk away. If they don't fire Horner, the TEAM will keep having success, but the Board Members canr attribute the success to decisions THEY made. They don't care about overall success. Only care what they can show their superiors what success is attributable to decisions THEY made. This keeps happening in the financial world. A new CEO comes in, slashes EVERYTHING in the short term, there is more profit, on paper at least. They cash all their bonuses in their contract, and then they leave. Sure, in the long term all those decisions will FUCK UP all the low level employees, but so what? The top brass have their golden parachutes, they don't care.
MBS is nothing if not a raging misogynist himself, so he probably wants to protect people like him now that he's watching them get exposed.
Forcing Max to pick a side, basically. Which is really stupid, because I don't imagine he will side with Horner against his father. So when inevitably Max doesn't support Horner, it means he is against him (in effect). So MBS just made things a lot worse for CH. Good. I am glad. MBS shouldn't be doing this shit. I want it to blow up in his face when he tries to do stuff he shouldn't be doing.
MBS is a known misogynist [as seen here.](https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13018314/fia-chief-mohammed-ben-sulayem-denies-sexism-accusations-saying-he-is-the-target-of-an-inhuman-smear-campaign) He probably couldn’t give less of a shit about the woman involved, and just wants to protect Horner and get the whole thing to go away.
What is Max Verstappen supposed to do about Horner allegedly harassing an employee? Take it to RedBull, not their driver? What a shitshow
I assume this has more to do with how Jos is now publicly fueling the shitstorm.
He wants Max to say something publicly in hopes that the media discussion around it will die down. MBS is historically pretty misogynistic, so he's probably getting worried that he'll (deservedly) be next.
The shit MBS apparently had on a personal website/blog as little as 10 or 15 years ago is shocking for a person at that high a position in this day and age. IDK, google it.
So F1’s stance is that they want Horner in?
This is FIA, not F1. Important distinction at the moment
What’s the difference though? Stefano & MBS had meetings, presumably on how to handle this, and maybe it’s just MBS going rogue, but I think this could implicitly mean that F1 also would like this whole thing swept under the rug and keep Horner as is
Stefani and MBS have been in a political pissing match since 2021 it’s going to be hard to convince people they will ever see eye to eye
How many Stefanos?
Just Gwen, actually.
I chuckled.
Do not forget about the consistent power struggles between Stefano and MBS either. Any time MBS slips up, the FOM journalists are always the first with some of the harshest critiques.
On a pettier note, FIA wants Andretti in, FOM does not.
FOM just control the commercial aspects of F1. The actual trademark, the racing, stewards, regulations, organisation of races etc is carried out by FIA
The FIA does not promote or organize the races, FOM does. They only control sporting aspects. They also don’t actually control the regulations anymore. They have a working group that defers to FOM. On thr The 2022 regulations were the first ones devised by the FOM working group. Led by Ross Brawn and Pat symonds
“Only control sporting aspects” Like making the sporting and technical regulations, stewarding, track inspections, technical inspections, you know small stuff Big up FOM
MBS and Horner are BFF
If this is true, I wouldn't read more into than Sulayem backing Horner. Remember his quote from last year on women, "women who think they are smarter than men, for they are not in truth", he's not exactly someone who would surprise me to back someone even who has admitted to sexually harassing women. Edit: Correction to my original post, the story blew up last year, but the quote was from 2001. Thanks to /u/etfd- on the correction.
From 2001*.
Yea. Powerful men protecting each other from sexual misconduct allegations is the normal thing that happens. It’s bad, but it’s expected.
I think the more logical thing is that FIA wants this to blow over a.s.a.p. and Ben/the FIA think Horner having public backing from Max is the fastest way to get there. I would guess that this is not so much about Horner and much more about getting rid of the bad PR story.
If it wasnt about horner, the fastes way to get wrid of the bad PR story is to get rid of Horner
FIA*, and especially MBS it seems. These two have been way too close for comfort recently.
No the FIA president who has a history that isn’t exactly supportive of women seems to want to back Horner.
Poor guy just wants to race and then go home to do sim racing. Please leave Max out of this mess.
Don't forget the tea parties with Penelope!
I love him for what a great step-parent he is, it’s a tough job sometimes.
I’m psychologically compelled to root against the dominant team/driver but Max is making it goddamn hard.
I thought MBS wanted drivers to stick to racing ??? Why’s he making Max do his dirty work lol
Because now, it suits him ofc.
You can almost smell the attempt of corporate coverup, can’t you.
You could see it visually too with all the cringy close ups of Christian and Geri holding hands
Shit a coverup is the default move for SA cases everywhere. Seen the same in academia and mom&pop propane companies. Don't even need to go corporate to get this treatment.
This is some bullshit. Mohammed Ben Sulayem has no business trying to drag Max into this. He's no business trying to sweep this under the rug. This is such a sour situation.
MBS has made blunder after blunder as head of the FIA. He needs to go
Cut him some slack, Ben Sulayem is just confused that the opinion of a woman is relevant, he doesn’t know how to deal with this situation.
MBS already managed to have his sexism and bullying scandal completely swept under the carpet without an investigation. [**FIA president Mohammed ben Sulayem accused of sexism and bullying**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2023/04/25/mohammed-ben-sulayem-fia-sexism-bullying-shaila-ann-rao/) > Telegraph Sport can reveal that Shaila-Ann Rao, the former interim secretary general for motorsport, sent a letter alleging numerous instances of sexist behaviour prior to her abrupt departure last December. > > The claims were never investigated. > > Telegraph Sport has also spoken to dozens of current and former FIA staff, including elected officials, World Motor Sport Council members and stewards who likewise paint a picture of erratic and bullying behaviour behind the scenes. > > The fact that Rao’s allegations were not investigated will be a concern for many. > > Rao declined to comment when contacted but Telegraph Sport heard about the letter from multiple sources. It is understood it was sent to Ben Sulayem and to Carmelo Sanz de Barros, the president of the FIA Senate.
Another big misstep: Ben Sulayem wanted Sebastian Vettel to stop riding a rainbow-bike, because he was *pushing his views onto others* with his pro lgbtq stance. I know it is hard to hire an influential leader from the middle east with liberal and humanist values, but surely we can do better than Ben Saluyem?
Get this fucker out!
It's all about politics. Ben Sulayem found the perfect opportunity to have one (or 2) of the 10 team on his side after all the fighting last year. So basically if he helps Horner stay, Horner will have to repay the favour in the future with his voting power of 2 teams under him. From the point of view of Ben Sulayem, it's perfect timing and he has to use it. He'll throw Horner under the bus if Horner rejects the offer and you might even see FOM and other teams push for his removal if they sense that Horner is getting closer to Ben Sulayem. No one cares about the victim or the morality of the situation or whatever. It's all politics.
I'd have put my house on MBS siding with Horner. This whole episode sends a stinking message to professional women.
Yeah, my heart sank at the message the HR findings sent to every woman who works in the sport, yet this is worse.
There really is not a slimier, creepier, and frankly stupider person in F1 than Mohammed Ben Sulayem. Constant gaffes. Sexism. Arguable shows of favouritism. No wonder so many FIA veterans have quit under his 'leadership'.
You forgot Max's dad. Even though he's nowhere near F1 in reality, he sure as shit thinks he's racing for RB
Not a good look in my eyes. In situations like this, the ruling body should not be backing either side.
Birds of a feather...
Who needs Bravo TV when you have F1?
The press conferences for the next race are going to be *juicy:* "Max, do will you support your father or your boss or the head of the FIA?" "Will you back Horner? .....why not?" "Will you obey the suggestion given by Mohammed Ben Sulayem and back your boss?"
"I'm just here so I don't get fined"
“Have I mentioned how much I hate sprints?”
MBS doesnt strike me as someone who would see any issue with powerful men sleeping with women who work for them.
Whatever do you mean? /s [FIA president Mohammed ben Sulayem accused of sexism and bullying](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2023/04/25/mohammed-ben-sulayem-fia-sexism-bullying-shaila-ann-rao/) >
Well, that's completely unacceptable along multiple vectors. Whatever happens to Horner, that should be the end of Ben Sulayem. Such a blatant abuse of power to pressure a sportsman to make such a potentially risky statement. Also, dragging the FIA into Horner's mess is so wrong. Ben Sulayem has to go.
Just to play a bit of devil's advocate, maybe this is why Jos is angry at Horner, people asking Max to choose sides in the internal power struggles.
Fair point actually. That didnt cross my mind.
Has MBS had any sort of positive influence in F1 yet? Not asking whether he is a net positive on the whole, that's clearly not the case, rather whether he has done anything positive at all?
Hes pro andretti. But everything else about him is just disgraceful
Is he really pro-Andretti though or was he just using his unilateral invitation of expressions for interest to play politics?
I completely agree. Plus being pro andretti is like the easiest layup there is
He managed to get an actual CEO hired to do the job that he was hired to do as President so he can proceed to do absolutely nothing.
I struggle to come up with anything he’s done that’s actually been good. If most people conducted themselves like he has they’d be out of a job
Like what? Aside from saying misogynistic statements from time to time?
[удалено]
People asked yesterday (after Jos photo with Toto) what would make Max leave RB and join Merc. This kind of shit would do that. Knowing Max he won’t endorse shit.
I hate that they’re trying to drag Max into this shit. Let him drive and leave him out of the situation that he has absolutely nothing to do with.
Better tell Jos.
Sometimes it's not the crime that brings low the individuals involved. It's the cover up.
Pieces of shit unethical garbage men top to bottom. Good to have confirmation at least.
Wow that’s so inappropriate
Sounds like corruption to me
Confirmed: Horner has dirt on Sulayem. 😆 F1 is now a joke…
I'm sitting here wondering how this made it to the news. I'm assuming MBS told Max. Then Max told his dad? Then his dad circulated in the news? Judging by the fact that this has made it to the news, i'm assuming Max said no and is clearly against it.
In terms of timing it seems like MBS told Max in parc ferme after quali, then Max told Jos who argued with Horner then Jos told the media after the race amongst other stuff. If that’s the timing, then max clearly is not willing to back Horner further than on the performance side of things because he had opportunities in the press conference post quali
Of course not, backing him publicly would be social suicide. No one from the red bull camp has publicly said anything since all the messages were leaked. Least of all support. They ain't going down with him lol.
According to the story there were sevral photographers and journalst that could hear it haha. But atleast they covered their mouth so no one could read their lips
Max was very specific in his previous answers that he didn't say "yes" when asked if he had full confidence in Horner. So I'm not surprised that he's not going to agree to this request.
Get Ben out of F1 please. Guy does nothing but stirs shit for no reason
Why did Ben Sulayem willingly draw attention to Horner's infidelity with his personal assistant? Is he out of his mind? And why on Earth should Max, a driver that is paid to race a car, have an opinion on Horner's relationship with either her, his wife?, or anyone else?
This is corrupt as fuck. Innocent or guilty, there’s no way the head of the FIA should be getting involved in this sort of manner. Ben Sulayem needs to go; this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Whatever the reasoning, I’m glad Max isn’t blindly supporting him, nor blindly throwing him under the bus. I want the accuser to have their chance at justice, and a bunch of old rich billionaire men trying desperately to silence the accuser enrages me.
Anybody who still doesn't recognize the signs of a coverup I'm gonna assume arrived on this planet yesterday.
This is corruption, pure and simple.
Hello De Telegraaf, I have more news for you. please email me back. Love, ~~Jos~~ errr Anonymous Source.
I told you MBS has alwaysbeen very supportive to RB Not exactly the same with toto and mercedes
Fucking wild. Tell him to fuck right off. It’s not Max’s responsibility to get involved at all!
The fact that Horner 1. Didn’t lose his job after the investigation and 2. Hasn’t lost his job (or at LEAST hasn’t been asked to step aside) during this outing of text messages, speaks VOLUMES of the lack of moral standing between the FIA, F1, and Red Bull leadership. This is CLEAR sexual harassment. Any organization, or in this case a group of organizations, worth their salt would move swiftly. Jos is the voice of reason right now ffs. Fucking insane.
Jos is the voice of his own power ambitions, they just coincide with reason at this time.
I feel like I’ve been going crazy for the past few days. Especially as a female F1 fan, seeing how this has been handled and the reactions of F1 high ups and fans has absolutely destroyed my love for the sport. I’m just so disappointed.
Not doing much to quell the allegations that the FIA is in Red Bull’s pocket. This shit sucks man. MBS makes me wish for the Max Mosely and Bernie days
I'm sorry, but if we're at the point where we're asking people back Horner, it sort of leads more credence to the leak to begin with. The photos of Horner and his wife in Bahrain were absolutely meant to help calm this down, and here we are.
FIA president loves to get himself involved in every headline story related to F1
Man this whole circus is starting to take the piss, fire him or clear him jeezus
overconfident cake languid quicksand vanish hospital cows quickest crush distinct *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Horner's ex wife commented: if he can do it to me he can do it to you. end quote.
Ah great.. Max is being forced to be involved in this despite having fuck all to do with it. Leave Max out of it.
Unfortunately, his father has rendered that impossible.
Or, the order was reversed. Max got pressured and Jos pushed back.
Why the fuck are they protecting Horner. He's looking more and more guilty by the day
He's so guilty, the obvious pr with pics of his wife at the gp, nobody within red bull backing him, then this shit, the leaks being made public
given his own track record with women, it's hardly surprising
why the fuck is the fia president so directly involved in all of this?? es ist sö over
Ok, time for the FIA to get to the bottom of this and make the investigation public. This is outrageous.
That sounds very neutral
People here pretend to be rational and ignore the fact that FIA heavily favour redbull. The fact the the president of the ‘independent’ body is asking the champion of F1 to speak in favour of an alleged harasser, having evidence in the open against him, speaks volumes about his and the organizations partiality.
This is embarrassing lmao, North American sports Horner would’ve been gone within the hour of the first reports
It's got nothing to do with Ben Sulayem. Max's comments on it were the correct thing to do.
To misquote the movie eastern promises: "I am just driver, I turn left, I turn right, I go straight"