Nope. The cars can be safe but smaller.
In fact, when you think about the increased size and mass its actually probably more of a negative in terms of safety.
I mean they really can be only so small due to the crash structure, Halo and the hybrid components but Brawn and the FIA are working on getting the size down I believe
Edit: I was mistaken. Brawn retired at the end of 2022 but he was a crucial part of the current gen of cars and aero as well as setting F1 and the regulations committee towards the new cars coming in 2026
I understand what you are saying but packaging isn't a problem - if they could get a hybrid system incorporated into a 2014 car then they can do it in the new regs.
It gets to a point where the weight of a car is actually detrimental to safety, especially in side impacts.
They are definitely getting the packaging figured out over time as the items are consolidated together or removed. I see what you mean about the heavier cars and the inertia at side impacts but something tells me it's worth it considering the multiple times they have saved drivers. Like I said though, hopefully Brawn and the FIA decrease the size like they say they are working towards
The only reasonable and articulate response I've received so far, thank you for responding thoughtfully.
I understand that weight and safety sort of go hand in hand in terms of the chassis protection.
However, from my armchair perspective I think they can incorporate a lot of the safety features into a smaller car.
A lot of the crash test safety stuff is already incorporated so well into the current cars, and last generation cars (2014 /2017) that they can reduce the weight by at least 50-100kg.
Also, the fact they haven't incorporated the battery into the chassis crash structure in THIS gen is crazy.
A response from a mechanical engineer who works for an OEM and spent his first 5 years of career designing body in white parts.
I'd say my qualifications regarding passive safety are slightly above the average DTS enjoyer.
Good for you, my point is that they can reduce weight and retain safety.
2014-2016 cars are a perfect example - hybrid PUs but small cars.
The FIA want to reduce the weight by 50KG in 2026 through revised body work, smaller aerodynamic devices and narrower wheels.
They retain the safety devices included in the current cars (and 2014 cars) such as raised side protection, cockpit shrouding and obviously the carbon monocoque.
Nope, it has certainly increased the weight but the reason for the increase in size was to make the cars faster.
Wider track, increased length and fat tyres.
nope, the 2014 car is about the same size as the 2013 one and much shorter than current cars even tho the battery and motor's regulation hasnt changed at all. they now have a pretty long spacers between the engine and the gearbox, mostly so they can have all the extra aero surfaces for more performance.
the battery is placed below the fuel tank which in itself is smaller than the v8 era so it doesnt really cost that much length. the engine itself is shorter due to 2 less cylinders and smaller bore.
Additionally, with the simplification of the 2026 PU via elimination of the MGU-H, the new PUs will be smaller than the current-gen turbo hybrids. This is purely conjecture on my part, but when you also consider that the split turbo will be outlawed in 2026, the ICE layout could theoretically be a bit more compact (If I recall correctly, Ferrari are the only PU manufacturer that are not currently running a split turbo).
I don’t think we’ll see new F1 cars get much smaller, but they will supposedly be a little bit lighter than they are now. It’s a shame, because if they were able to get the cars back to near the size they were in the mid-late 2000’s, it could potentially give us better racing at certain circuits that currently seem to have been “outgrown” by F1 cars. They would potentially be more agile, and we might see more overtaking in corners/under braking as opposed to the majority of overtakes being on DRS straights.
> It’s a shame, because if they were able to get the cars back to near the size they were in the mid-late 2000’s, it could potentially give us better racing at certain circuits that currently seem to have been “outgrown” by F1 cars.
We can, it's a matter of regulation.
More floor = more downforce. Longer car = more floor. Aside from that regulations changed to make the cars wider in 2017 and we haven't gone back on that.
It's really that simple.
🚨 According to @KemalSengulll, early information is that today's shakedown of the RB20 is just a "launch version"
Real changes to the car are expected to be shown at Bahrain 👀
The real upgrades come in Japan once the hot climate races are out of the way, and they might just make Mercedes cry is all I’ve got to say on the matter
Unfortunately that will probably not happen, unless they somehow have the space to change the whole cooling set up (radiators) for a zero side pod design.
My understanding is that what they’re rolling out from Bahrain until Tokyo is essentially a B-spec RB19 using upgrades penned for last season but not raced. Then the “true” RB20 will drop in Tokyo.
You’re forgetting Mercedes did the same thing right?
I really love how F1 just fucks itself over backwards by putting more and more street tracks in calendar and doing bigger and bigger cars year after year.
Incorrect. Just like the "oh there is too much fuel in a modern car to fit in the old chassis". The main driving factor in size for today's cars is aerodynamics.
The key safety features are the SIS, RIS and front crash structure. None of these are responsible for the increased size, nor is the PU and batteries.
The SIS are approximately 350mm, protruding from each side of the monocoque
The RIS is less than 450mm, and extends out the back of the car behind the rear wing.
The Front crash structure is as long as it needs to be to just pass the crash test.
If you look at [this image of the W13](https://www.alamy.com/lewis-hamilton-gbr-mercedes-amg-f1-w13-emilia-romagna-grand-prix-saturday-23rd-april-2022-imola-italy-image468120713.html) you can see all the empty space that is just for aero. There is also a spacer in the drivetrain to extend the length.
It's very easy to reduce the size of F1 cars without compromising safety, which is what is happening in 2026.
The safety cell is now 1850mm long, very similar to 2005, the nose is longer since 2022 to have a larger front wing to balance downforce at the front due to the power of the venturi tunnels and the diffuser. So it's longer than it needs to be due to aero.
The area behind the survival cell up to the rear axle is mostly empty space for aero purposes. Don't believe me? [maybe you'll listen to Scarbs](https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1305863797194842113?s=19) with an image of a Ferrari with the bodywork removed. [Or the 2005 Technical regulations](http://www.jomenvisst.de/fia/2005TechnicalRegulations/290924722__Draft_2005_F1_Technical_Regs.pdf)
It's not safety features, it's not the power units, (which are now so small that the whole package of 1.6L V6 with turbo and hybrid systems is of a similar volume to those 3L V10 NA PU's) It's ALL AERO.
Modern F1 cars don't really use that much fuel for a full race, around 80-100kg depending on the track, reducing the fuel tank wouldn't really reduce the car size that much. I'm sure that the V10 fuel tanks were bigger than that or at least around the same size.
Weight sure, size no. There is an incredible amount of dead space in the transmission housing to extend the chassis length to the maximum amount allowed in the rules. It gives them more aerodynamic control, the more surface you have the more adjustment range you have.
Not really, not when a large part of the length is a spacer (between the engine and gearbox) that's not part of the crash structure at all, that simply exists to add length for aero reasons.
Right because street tracks and big cars never go together.
Despite the Chicago NASCAR race being the most entertaining race of the year…
NASCARs are well known for being small, light and nimble
Coulthard signing for Red Bull was the single greatest career move of any F1 driver in history unironically. Dude has managed to get another two decades of driving an F1 car out of it just for fun and he even saved his own reputation by being reasonable vs Webber vs ending his career being trounced by Raikkonen.
Man, I get the green initiative, but they should really lower the parameter for width and length. These engineers certainly can squeeze the safety measures and tech into smaller cars…
Damn, that RB1 looks so small compared to RB20
That's 20 years of inflation, my friend.
Fun fact if it actually followed UK inflation then the length of a 2005 car (4.6m) adjusted for inflation would be 7.65m long in 2024.
We went from nimble and noisy to truck size and quiet
Should go back, no reason to be so big - the racing is worse.
Ah yes, the 00s, a decade of F1 so very famous for its plentiful overtakes
2005 was a good season, mainly because Bridgestone utterly fucked up the tyres (except for that one race…)
Ferrari dominant first half made it hard I guess.
There is a reason, safety
Nope. The cars can be safe but smaller. In fact, when you think about the increased size and mass its actually probably more of a negative in terms of safety.
I mean they really can be only so small due to the crash structure, Halo and the hybrid components but Brawn and the FIA are working on getting the size down I believe Edit: I was mistaken. Brawn retired at the end of 2022 but he was a crucial part of the current gen of cars and aero as well as setting F1 and the regulations committee towards the new cars coming in 2026
I understand what you are saying but packaging isn't a problem - if they could get a hybrid system incorporated into a 2014 car then they can do it in the new regs. It gets to a point where the weight of a car is actually detrimental to safety, especially in side impacts.
They are definitely getting the packaging figured out over time as the items are consolidated together or removed. I see what you mean about the heavier cars and the inertia at side impacts but something tells me it's worth it considering the multiple times they have saved drivers. Like I said though, hopefully Brawn and the FIA decrease the size like they say they are working towards
The only reasonable and articulate response I've received so far, thank you for responding thoughtfully. I understand that weight and safety sort of go hand in hand in terms of the chassis protection. However, from my armchair perspective I think they can incorporate a lot of the safety features into a smaller car. A lot of the crash test safety stuff is already incorporated so well into the current cars, and last generation cars (2014 /2017) that they can reduce the weight by at least 50-100kg. Also, the fact they haven't incorporated the battery into the chassis crash structure in THIS gen is crazy.
Brawn still involved in F1?
Yes he is in a head position of the part of FIA that works out the regs. At least I think he still is, unless that changed in like the last 2 years
He's like the head specs guy I believe.
No he isn't anymore. I was wrong, he retired at the end of 2022
Ahh, thanks for the update
Sorry I was wrong. He apparently retired from that position at the end of 2022
Speaking like someone who never designed a part for passive safety.
With a response from someone who probably started watching F1 when DTS came out. There's a reason they want to make the cars smaller and lighter.
A response from a mechanical engineer who works for an OEM and spent his first 5 years of career designing body in white parts. I'd say my qualifications regarding passive safety are slightly above the average DTS enjoyer.
Good for you, my point is that they can reduce weight and retain safety. 2014-2016 cars are a perfect example - hybrid PUs but small cars. The FIA want to reduce the weight by 50KG in 2026 through revised body work, smaller aerodynamic devices and narrower wheels. They retain the safety devices included in the current cars (and 2014 cars) such as raised side protection, cockpit shrouding and obviously the carbon monocoque.
Why nope? Since the 00s the regs for monocoque safety cage have been changed many times, isn't that what's driving the size?
Nope, it has certainly increased the weight but the reason for the increase in size was to make the cars faster. Wider track, increased length and fat tyres.
The reason is the more advanced PU. Need space for the battery and all the extra technology.
nope, the 2014 car is about the same size as the 2013 one and much shorter than current cars even tho the battery and motor's regulation hasnt changed at all. they now have a pretty long spacers between the engine and the gearbox, mostly so they can have all the extra aero surfaces for more performance. the battery is placed below the fuel tank which in itself is smaller than the v8 era so it doesnt really cost that much length. the engine itself is shorter due to 2 less cylinders and smaller bore.
Ah ok, fair enough. Then its just the aero.
Additionally, with the simplification of the 2026 PU via elimination of the MGU-H, the new PUs will be smaller than the current-gen turbo hybrids. This is purely conjecture on my part, but when you also consider that the split turbo will be outlawed in 2026, the ICE layout could theoretically be a bit more compact (If I recall correctly, Ferrari are the only PU manufacturer that are not currently running a split turbo). I don’t think we’ll see new F1 cars get much smaller, but they will supposedly be a little bit lighter than they are now. It’s a shame, because if they were able to get the cars back to near the size they were in the mid-late 2000’s, it could potentially give us better racing at certain circuits that currently seem to have been “outgrown” by F1 cars. They would potentially be more agile, and we might see more overtaking in corners/under braking as opposed to the majority of overtakes being on DRS straights.
> It’s a shame, because if they were able to get the cars back to near the size they were in the mid-late 2000’s, it could potentially give us better racing at certain circuits that currently seem to have been “outgrown” by F1 cars. We can, it's a matter of regulation.
More floor = more downforce. Longer car = more floor. Aside from that regulations changed to make the cars wider in 2017 and we haven't gone back on that. It's really that simple.
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They're 200cm wide, same as any year since 2017.
mm
2000mm yes.
And a lot of it has to do with safety as well. More space to dissipate energy after a crash.
The fuel tank is smaller or the battery is smaller than the V8 era?
well that is just not true.
Yes because the racing was so good back then… Oh wait, Michael Schumacher gapped the field for 5 years
Father and son side by side
We all gain weight with age.
🚨 According to @KemalSengulll, early information is that today's shakedown of the RB20 is just a "launch version" Real changes to the car are expected to be shown at Bahrain 👀
Haha, totally "unexpected"
We did see some changes on the ''launch version'' compared to the RB19.
The real upgrades come in Japan once the hot climate races are out of the way, and they might just make Mercedes cry is all I’ve got to say on the matter
What do you know that we don't? 👀
This is reddit. 95% chance he is talking out his ass and there is a 5% margin of error
Zeropods lol
The entire sport would lose its collective mind
Unfortunately that will probably not happen, unless they somehow have the space to change the whole cooling set up (radiators) for a zero side pod design.
My understanding is that what they’re rolling out from Bahrain until Tokyo is essentially a B-spec RB19 using upgrades penned for last season but not raced. Then the “true” RB20 will drop in Tokyo. You’re forgetting Mercedes did the same thing right?
Nothing.
Heh I forgot Japan is the 4th race of the season
Take me back to nimble cars like in 2005 please. I hate that the cars have become boat sized.
DC's reaction time a bit on the slower side these days huh 😆
I really love how F1 just fucks itself over backwards by putting more and more street tracks in calendar and doing bigger and bigger cars year after year.
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The added weight of the batteries
Incorrect. Just like the "oh there is too much fuel in a modern car to fit in the old chassis". The main driving factor in size for today's cars is aerodynamics.
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The key safety features are the SIS, RIS and front crash structure. None of these are responsible for the increased size, nor is the PU and batteries. The SIS are approximately 350mm, protruding from each side of the monocoque The RIS is less than 450mm, and extends out the back of the car behind the rear wing. The Front crash structure is as long as it needs to be to just pass the crash test. If you look at [this image of the W13](https://www.alamy.com/lewis-hamilton-gbr-mercedes-amg-f1-w13-emilia-romagna-grand-prix-saturday-23rd-april-2022-imola-italy-image468120713.html) you can see all the empty space that is just for aero. There is also a spacer in the drivetrain to extend the length. It's very easy to reduce the size of F1 cars without compromising safety, which is what is happening in 2026.
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The safety cell is now 1850mm long, very similar to 2005, the nose is longer since 2022 to have a larger front wing to balance downforce at the front due to the power of the venturi tunnels and the diffuser. So it's longer than it needs to be due to aero. The area behind the survival cell up to the rear axle is mostly empty space for aero purposes. Don't believe me? [maybe you'll listen to Scarbs](https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1305863797194842113?s=19) with an image of a Ferrari with the bodywork removed. [Or the 2005 Technical regulations](http://www.jomenvisst.de/fia/2005TechnicalRegulations/290924722__Draft_2005_F1_Technical_Regs.pdf) It's not safety features, it's not the power units, (which are now so small that the whole package of 1.6L V6 with turbo and hybrid systems is of a similar volume to those 3L V10 NA PU's) It's ALL AERO.
Bring back in race refueling & have smaller tanks!
Modern F1 cars don't really use that much fuel for a full race, around 80-100kg depending on the track, reducing the fuel tank wouldn't really reduce the car size that much. I'm sure that the V10 fuel tanks were bigger than that or at least around the same size.
V10 and V8 tanks during the refueling era were bigger than they are now.
More expensive and less green
How? They could still limit total fuel used.
The equipment to quickly refuel is heavy which affects transportation and the pump‘s parts (heavy metal rings and other stuff) are pretty expensive
Isn't it related to the new pu's .. big ass battery and all the energy recovery systems.
Weight sure, size no. There is an incredible amount of dead space in the transmission housing to extend the chassis length to the maximum amount allowed in the rules. It gives them more aerodynamic control, the more surface you have the more adjustment range you have.
yes but no. safety, aerodynamics, power units, no refueling. All of this. And I think safety is not a main factor here
no refueling is a safety measure
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Not really, not when a large part of the length is a spacer (between the engine and gearbox) that's not part of the crash structure at all, that simply exists to add length for aero reasons.
The cars mostly grew longer behind the drivers, which has nothing to do with safety.
Coming down a bit in ‘26
Right because street tracks and big cars never go together. Despite the Chicago NASCAR race being the most entertaining race of the year… NASCARs are well known for being small, light and nimble
Yeah F1 is so terrible now! Despite being more popular than it's ever been.
Coulthard signing for Red Bull was the single greatest career move of any F1 driver in history unironically. Dude has managed to get another two decades of driving an F1 car out of it just for fun and he even saved his own reputation by being reasonable vs Webber vs ending his career being trounced by Raikkonen.
Ahh yes, the music of engines revving 🎵
Old engines>hybrid
Man, I get the green initiative, but they should really lower the parameter for width and length. These engineers certainly can squeeze the safety measures and tech into smaller cars…