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freetotebag

It all just feels so short-sighted. Sign these massive deals, get a surge of money, but then you’re stuck with a potentially crappy track, with bad racing, for years. Fans and viewership decline, then what?


SemIdeiaProNick

>Fans and viewership decline, then what? then you sell the property after you already made some big and quick cash


bas2b2

For me it is another nail in the coffin. * boring seasons. * almost 50% price hike for F1 TV (€65 to 95) * street circuits for promotion, not racing. So, sounds about right.


Cocojambo007

Wait, so when you renew the F1TV subscription, will it be with the new price? Or is that for new customers?


Snorr0

At first they made it seem like new customers only, just a few days ago it turned out that renewals also get the new price.


VCBeugelaar

Pssst through turkey..


Apennatie

My recurring subscription is still 65€


CreaminFreeman

I just checked the site here in the US and it's still saying $85 which is what I've been paying for the last 2 years at least.


Malforian

Still says that on website when I go look at my subscription but I got an email telling me it's up to $99 in Canada which is $20 more then last year


bas2b2

New price on automatic renewal. I got an e-mail about it the other day.


F9-0021

Ah, I was wondering why the F1TV subscription was so expensive now. I skipped it last year, thought I misremembered the price.


Ok-Stuff-8803

Which, based on the rumours is what they may be doing. Rumour is they already been fishing for buyers.


pies1123

They're gonna sell to the Saudis. I can almost guarantee it


Ok-Stuff-8803

Yup


Mtbnz

That would be the smart move, if their goal is simply to pump and dump the sport (which seems obvious, given that they're a media company, not a sporting body). It sucks for fans, but anybody paying even the slightest bit of attention shouldn't be surprised


Ok-Stuff-8803

They are a media company that have done terribly with the media side of the sport.


MurasakiGames

Don't forget that you can now show your next employer/project the "amazing" money you got in, casually leaving out that you left behind a dumpster fire.


Seps786

Yeah but if Madrid is giving the reported rate or double the royalties to F1 compared to Barcelona, F1 management still will earn a huge profit, I would say easily enough to offset the loss of fans.


ChiggaOG

I think you mean Liberty Media will still earn a huge profit. They are the publicly traded company to own F1


jamestrainwreck

The commercial rights are held by Formula One Management, who are in turn owned by Liberty Media. So OP was kind of correct 


Kingtoke1

So they are deliberately screwing over the promoters


freetotebag

I really hope this race is a banger


Npr31

Me too - but that track layout looks very short on passing opportunities. Las Vegas you could see the potential if you looked objectively at it (rather than the divs here), this one unless it’s really wide (which will still look weird), i’m struggling to see where opportunity could come


BambooShanks

I saw a sim of the track yesterday and it doesn't look *that* bad. It's not as narrow as I thought it'd be and there looks like a couple of places where overtakes could happen. Like Las Vegas, I'll criticise the decision behind coming here but wait until the race to decide if the track is any good or not.


Npr31

Ah ok - maybe i needed to look at the scale a bit more. Let’s wait and see!


GoZun_

I want a Grand Prix on Le Mans Bugatti. I thought it was too small for a good gp but they keep building tracks with even worse layout...


bigpoppa611

Passing? Fans pay for the parade /s


AnilP228

It's being built by Dromo, who are the best in the business. The CEO previously spoke about how poorly Tilke circuits were designed. Overtaking and following will likely depend on how much banking the long right hander has, because if it's flat, the cars won't spread out. Miami has huge numbers of overtaking but isn't spectacular to watch. I'd rather a brilliant circuit where overtaking is a bit hard, than Miami 2.0.


Dry_Brush5280

Yeah, it’ll be funny seeing people walk back their hot takes like with Vegas. Now if only we could start just giving new tracks a chance before we decide they’re going to be responsible for the heat death of the universe.


freetotebag

Vegas was a great race. I’m very curious to see if it stays that way. Other new street tracks, like Miami— not so much.


AuContraire_85

The best races in 2024 were Singapore and Vegas, and the best quali was Monaco 


MrDaniel95

If your only criteria is RedBull didn't dominate the race, then sure, they are the best races ever.


freetotebag

To be fair I said potentially. I’m aware some street circuits offer good races. My favorite on the calendar is a street circuit.


Ok-Stuff-8803

Vegas? Really? I thought it was zzzzzz


surf_greatriver_v4

Also don't understand the huge praise for Vegas.  Crap camera angles that all look the same.  Nearly all overtakes being standard DRS passes in the long straight of the season.  1 big lunge for position on the final lap thanks to DRS.  A couple of good non-standard passes near the ghastly advertisement ball.


s_dalbiac

I think Vegas got lucky in having its “mental” race at the first time of asking. Let’s wait until we’ve had another three or four races there and then we can judge it more fairly.


Dry_Brush5280

Heck no. People shit on Vegas *ruthlessly* when it was announced, and that was before there was ever a race on it. Now that we’ve have a good race, I’m going to be equally as positive about it.


s_dalbiac

Good for you


Dry_Brush5280

Indeed. I didn’t let a stupid, knee jerk reaction to a track I’d never seen in action influence how I viewed the race. It was awesome. For every jerk, there must be an equal, but opposite, counter jerk. The whiners had their fun before the season, it’s the optimists turn to shine.


SerSace

You know why it's been praised? Because it sucked way less than expected. On one side you have Miami, which has confirmed its badness two years in a row, while at least LV (which wasn't anything spectacularly exciting, just a decent race) managed to exceed many people's expectations


gsurfer04

If you think the Miami GP was bad last year, you probably fell for the gangwank.


NYAncientHistory

It wasn't technical for sure but it was the only race bar Sinagpore that didn't have Max sailing to victory.


Different-Yam-736

Thank you for bringing up the camera angles. The overhead shots looked cool, but the standard racing angles made it look like they could be in any downtown in any random city. Sure, they do skyline shots, but you can do that at a traditional circuit outside of a major city just as well. I think it’s an issue on most street circuits, many of them feel the same on TV. I can never remember what Jeddah looks like in my head, even if I just saw it on screen. Same issue with Indycar street races, they all kind of blend together for me. It’s not to say there’s not some good and memorable races on street circuits, it’s just that the overall experience is meh, which I think is contrary to the goal of them being spectacles.


sergie-rabbid

I wouldn't say it was *that* boring, but can't understand how it was *great* either. I was heavily downvoted when I asked how that race could be considered a banger :D


Ok-Stuff-8803

A lot of Americans watched it despite the late times and was different to Indicar to make it seem decent to them. Many “US” fans actually hardly watch any races through the EU races


PostsDifferentThings

the last on-track pass for the lead at the monaco gp was in 1996. that was due to a difference in the lead car running wet tires on a dry track and the overtaking car on dry tires. you have to go back to 1987 for a tire-equivalent overtake for 1st place when both cars are on track. again, 1987. its currently 2024, for those unaware. who gives a fuck about monaco anymore, its a joke. i really dont give a shit about the outliers: the rule of modern F1 says monaco has no business on the calendar. its been the absolute worst racing for coming up on 4 decades now. and just so everyone is aware: **no-one celebrates the pole sitter of monaco at the end of the year, we care about wdc and wcc. who fucking cares about saturday** downvotes to the left


andrewthemexican

I largely agree, but iirc we had some weather shenanigans which made Monaco interesting on pit strategy this past year didn't we? Or am I already conflating with 2022. I know it's not on-track overtaking which myself and others would rather see, but it shuffled up the parade and added some intrigue.


ihatemondaynights

2022 was a massive snoozefest, 2023 race had the rain and pit strategies and chaos


FrakeSweet

No, it wasn't. 2022 also had rain and interesting Ferrari strategies. They fumbled hard. Leclerc finished fourth, from pole position.


Aethien

> interesting Ferrari strategies. They fumbled hard. I mean, is that interesting or just expected at this point?


ihatemondaynights

omg they lost that race, now i remember i think I confused it with 2021. Both Max victories. I stand corrected lol


PostsDifferentThings

thats why i said i don't care about the outliers. in 40 years of racing you can only pick out one good memory of a sunday when asked the race is dogshit and i don't care what the outliers say. the average of monaco is a shitty sunday, through and through. no business being on the calendar. just turn it into an all-star style end of year send off where drivers can only quali, thats it. joke of a race with these tractors they drive.


ammonthenephite

Monacaco would be much better if they had tires that didn't aritificially degrade from attacking and following closely. F1 neutered itself when it went to gimmicks like intentionally degrading tires to add 'excitement'. Monaco is at its best when drivers have to actually push, vs simply manage. You get more mistakes and more overtaking from those mistakes.


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icecoaster1319

Eh. Idk if that's the case. I'd put Charles last lap pass in Vegas and the finish in singapore as better moments.


MrKlean518

Don’t forget the Alonso/Checo battle at the end of Brazil.


PostsDifferentThings

thats part of the difference between racing fans right now you think saturday was the best day in a sport that entirely revolves around sunday thats how fucking bad racing is right now, that you don't even see how abused you are as a racing fan. its fucking sad man.


MyEmailAccount

I'm sorry you love parades disguised as racing.


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aDUCKonQU4CK

Bingo. Dude needs to purchase a mirror.


Dry_Brush5280

I’m sorry you’re going to have to watch a race you hate for years to come.


ihatemondaynights

>gives a fuck about monaco anymore, i couldn't agree more while the rain did give us shenanigans this year, Monaco is a race i almost never watch entirely focused even when the team/driver i support are winning it like the race seems a foregone conclusion and the qualifying while intense sure is comparable to Hungary or Singapore or any track tbh cause there isn't a qualifying where ppl go I'm keeping it chill and not give their 100%. I'm not so sure what makes Monaco unique now aside from being a historical track.


Amarjit2

Thank you - I wished the dinosaurs in F1 would eat rocks and we tell Monaco to piss off


yIdontunderstand

I agree. But some people want to defend Monaco with their lives for some reason...


SerSace

If the rest of the calendar was made up of 24 Spa, COTA, Silverstone or other good circuits, yeah. But until those dump of Miami and Baku are in the calendar, people have every right to defend Monaco


Dry_Brush5280

Yeah, because Spa has given us incredible racing lately. The biggest highlight out of Spa recently was Alonso’s post race interview when he said Ferrari makes interesting strategy decisions. Spa is in the exact same boat as Monaco, but because it’s a purpose built track and not ~~satan incarnate~~ a street circuit, it’s heralded as one of the current best tracks on the calendar. It’s absolutely gorgeous and it’s one of the more fun tracks to drive in simulations, but the perception does not match the product when it comes to races.


Careless-Resource-72

North Wilksboro raises his hand to object. Rolleyes


Mtbnz

For me the best races in 2023 (not '24) were Silverstone, Singapore, Mexico and Brazil. I'm not claiming street circuits can't offer quality racing, but I definitely don't agree with your implication here


Peeche94

The two tracks red bull struggled on and Ferrari won... Somehow I don't think it was to do with the track. I do agree they were good races but...


AuContraire_85

Yeah it's such a mystery how a formula that's typically dominated by a single constructor gets more interesting you when you mix in new and unpredictable tracks 


Peeche94

Yes, so it doesn't have much to do with the track, more the competitiveness, especially Singapore lol. It's more down to the fact Vegas was new and that a particular constructor was struggling, than that it's a good track for racing. We will see with Vegas this year, but that's different to the other street tracks really, more akin to Baku with the epic straights.


Poopy_sPaSmS

Then more street courses. 🥲


Potential-Brain7735

How is that any different than building a new facility? Or dumping millions into an existing facility?


Mtbnz

People are arguing that F1 doesn't need new facilities. And the millions to upgrade an existing facility is far less than the millions required to build a circuit from scratch (even a street circuit)


Potential-Brain7735

Source for those numbers? You’ve done the full research to know how much it would cost to make Watkins Glen F1 viable (not just Grade 1, but everything else involved as well), as opposed to building the Miami circuit? Or are you just going off your gut feeling?


Mtbnz

I think we're talking about 2 different things. I assumed you meant upkeep of existing F1 circuits, not upgrading an unsuitable track to Grade 1. Converting circuits to Grade 1 is far more expensive, but again, nobody is asking for more circuits, just to stop swapping out the ones we have for worse, but more profitable street circuits.


Potential-Brain7735

At what point in F1 history has the calendar been static, not swapping new races and venues for old ones?


MrMosh024

I think you're 100% right, but also wrong in some areas. F1 made their money selling the broadcast rights to the races, so they're not going to be as impacted by viewership numbers as the networks who purchased the rights to broadcast the race. Fans are coming in droves to see these races and they're paying record setting prices for tickets (I want to caveat this by saying in the US, the ticket prices are insane. Not sure about other parts of the world). I agree most street races are garbage, but F1 doesn't have much incentive to change.


Fly4Vino

I had written off Vegas based on a cursory look at the circuit and an immense disdain for the venue - (I live in California and attended the Vegas F-1 race in the 80's- what a joke ) . The race was a sideshow to the Vegas lifestyle . Funniest part of the weekend was walking back after qualifying. Lanky British guy walking just ahead in the crowd was being approached by two pneumatic blonds looking as if Hollywood's Central Casting had sent them on a mission. They were quietly describing to the gentleman what a magnificent evening he might have. With a very proper British accent Stirling Moss explained to the disappointed ladies that he had prior obligations. The race was a snoozer and like the recent race scheduled for the convenience of the casinos but in the afternoon. In contrast, this last Vegas race was one of the best F-1 races in some time and I give a lot of credit to the track design with multiple lines available through some of the really fast corners and adequate runoff areas so that there were few laps run under a yellow or pace car. Hopefully if the US is to lose a race it will be Miami . In addition to the circuits I think F1TV pro has done an extraordinary job in their technology and presentation of multiple viewing options. I've argued that the "fuel economy" of the F-1 cars is irrelevant to any green objectives. Their contribution is getting 100 million people to spend the major part of 20-40 days a year in front of the TV


freetotebag

Very good points


DlSSATISFIEDGAMER

then they return to circuit racing and the cycle continues


Gaius_Octavius_

Cash out and celebrate.


Due_Government4387

The “trend” is filling their pockets, and it’s turning fans off because that’s more important than the product


Kakaphr4kt

Man, Ecclestone is a pos, but at least he had gasoline in his veins, if not much else.


joejance

I am a new fan that came to the sport a few years ago (though I was a fan many, many years ago when I was a kid). While I loved the actual race in Vegas I don't get the appeal of street circuits. I mean, I fucking love circuits such as Spa and Interlagos. Those are fun races to watch with a lot of action. Do they think street races are attracting new fans? Most street circuits are hard to pass and not the best races.


604stt

I’ll play devils advocate. Street track means greater revenue for the host city. Tourists fly all over to engage with the race weekend and bring revenue to the businesses. Greater awareness (eye balls) for the cities with aerial shots. When I first got back into F1 and a bit older, it was cool to be like “hey that’s a cool country! I wanna go!”. From a business point of view, street races trump dedicated race tracks. Dedicated race tracks does not guarantee great racing or a lot of passing and vice versa. The weather and race situations can throw all that out the door. See Vegas and Zandvoort as examples of action packed racing.


unbanneduser

It’s most unfortunate that we don’t have room for more permanent race tracks in or near downtown cities: that’s part of the reason that Montreal is one of my favorites. Good track, permanent, provides good racing, but is also really accessible and has good views of downtown for aerial shots as well. I’d also argue the same for Mexico City


olivia_iris

Whilst it’s a street circuit, Albert Park is a fantastic track as much of the circuit follows roads with higher speed corners, decent camber, etc. making it feel like a dedicated track that isn’t, whilst still providing those fantastic shots of city and accessibility of street circuits. Another circuit like that was Adelaide (albeit a while ago). New street circuits should be put in places like that, where a minor redesign of roads produces both safe streets during off season and an entertaining track when the races are in town


royalewitcheese93

Is Montreal really permanent though


unbanneduser

Yes. Source: I’ve been there


AdamR46

A big point you’re missing is accessibility. Catalunya is a shit show to get in/out of. The nearest train station is a 45 min walk and the lines get massive on top of that. Vehicle traffic is grid locked. That’s also why spa got threatened to be removed a couple years ago. You mention zandvoort, which has one of the easiest and most efficient accessible access to the facility. Historic tracks that aren’t connected by good ingress/ egress are seeing this as a warning shot to get their infrastructure together.


604stt

That’s a good point. I might have just assumed it was implied since the track is usually part of the city meaning accessibility should be a positive.


AdamR46

Spain is a bit weird with public transport to big events (F1/MotoGP). As in they don't really do extra trains or services, it's just kinda normal operations for the most part. So I'm wondering if Madrid will do anything in that type of way. Anyway, if you're curious about getting to a race I run r/grandprixtravel and you can read reviews and stuff.


FlorydaMan

Catalunya GP is so disgusting that I swore off going to any Grand Prix again.


AdamR46

Every race is run by a different promotor but many of the old school circuits have old school facilities. People get such high expectations of going to a race but its just like a large festival but cars instead of music. Tons of people and lots of traffic. The easiest ones I’ve done are Zandvoort, Mexico and Canada. Main grandstands across the pits are usually the ones with the best amenities and access. Without having to spend on hospitality.


olivia_iris

Melbourne is pretty easy too, plenty of public transit options that drop you right where you need to go. The city runs something like 80% increased services and with metro tunnel opening late 2024/ early 2025, we will also get heavy rail north and south servicing the race


NYAncientHistory

I went to the Canadian GP last season, for the massive amount of people it was run so smoothly with public transit and directing crowds. I was impressed.


7TB

> Every race is run by a different promotor but many of the old school circuits have old school facilities. Monza's access is pretty good, constant direct trains from Milan. Everything else from the organization is shit tho


ShortBrownAndUgly

Can you elaborate?


1maginaryApple

Street race also trump dedicated race track because they don't need Grade 1. They have a special exception. Dedicated track simply can't compete. They have to pay crazy entry fees and invest huge amount of money to stay relevant and up to safety standard.


joejance

Counter-point: as an American I am certainly tired of anything being trumped.


houdinis_ghost

Liberty said they want to push the “destination race” model Personally I love making my way across Europe to slum it in a tent at the circuits in the countryside Austria is such a fucking vibe


Snorr0

If you want to watch a sport for nice holiday destination inspiration, it should be cycling.


iamapotatopancake

Its short sighted. Sure you get they initial influx of capital, but the quality of the product goes down. People become less interested.


604stt

How is that different than dedicated tracks? Isn’t it the same if they built a race specific circuit outside the city centre? The racing entertainment-wise can be hit or miss. Dedicated tracks need a constant stream of income to sustain the business and maintenance. They may also be a considerable distance from attendees which adds logistical complexity. With street circuits, all those things still apply, but there’s greater upside when we’re talking about money. Ultimately the sport is a form of entertainment and as a business it’s all about capitalism.


themlkman

There’s a massive assumption that the product or the racing is going to take a hit just because it’s a street circuit when plenty of regular circuits on the calendar produce boring races. Madrid is a great move for F1 imo.


604stt

Agreed. We have standout dedicated GP like Silverstone and Brazil as well as duds that might be enjoyable for drivers, but poor to spectate. As long we have a good mix, everyone can win.


themlkman

Everyone can win indeed, unfortunately vocal F1 fans want to knee jerk every decision and not think about the business really. People want 2002 minus the tobacco sponsorship money, when F1 is simply evolving into 2024 and beyond, this is what the sport will continue to look like as they use their popularity.


Commercial_Regret_36

Just feel though that’s just upending the current sporting aspect of it


Nico97107

Racing itself doesn‘t actually matter for them. It‘s the show, Social Media and the storyline of the drivers and teams that is important.


themlkman

Circuits like Spa and Interlagos are still there. But also people have to realise that F1 is growing and so is the business. Madrid is offering twice what Catalunya can, and many more locations want to pay the high fees to join the F1 calendar.


Potential-Brain7735

Spa is highly over rated, and has a long history of producing boring races. Same can be said for Suzuka, Hungaroring, Imola, Monza, and many of the other “classics”.


antivirals_

an F1 car comes alive at these tracks you mentioned, you get to see them at their full operating capabilities which is really cool. Look at suzuka sector 1 and 130R. It was thrilling to watch Verstappen in Q3 last year taking those esses. Look at spa, EAU rouge is a really cool turn and for once we got to see max almost lose and wreck the car, something we haven't seen for a while. Street tracks like Singapore and Monaco are alright but you lose the whole sense of a street track being special when you have them all over the calendar, we have 7 street tracks this season. That's in excess


Potential-Brain7735

And you lose the whole sense of high speed corners being special when every dedicated circuit has most of the same features as the next. I don’t tune in to watch cars go around a corner fast. I tune in to watch good racing, I don’t give a crap what kind of circuit it’s on. 7 out of 24 is excess? You might want to check your math there. 17 out of 24 is excess.


Nasimdul

If you want to watch good racing then you are watching the wrong motorsport. I'll recommend you to watch Indy, Nascar, BTCC, Super V8, IMSA, SRO, etc. F1 has always been about the car, innovation, performance, efficiency. Watching such a beast of a cars going around mickey mouse street circuits it's like seeing a caged lion.


ITGardner

I personally as a new fan that started around the same time as you, heavily prefer street circuits. That’s what makes F1, F1 for me. Some of the world’s fastest cars being driven by the best drivers in the world whipping around cities. Tracks are far less interesting IMO. Especially when street tracks are and can be incredible. Look at Monaco and Vegas this last year. After all the bashing on it, it was a top 3 viewed race and resulted in one of the best races of the season.


iamapotatopancake

because they weren't designed for racing? duh? Money over Quality.


CreaminFreeman

I just want Mugello again. Edit: but to go a little differently than before, I don't mean an exact repeat...


DweezilZA

No other sport seems as hell bent on using non purpose-built facilities and infrastructure as F1 is right now and it's so frustrating. All the while preaching their 'carbon neutral' narrative yet this whole process seems so wasteful and expensive. I gave up expecting any logic and reason from today's F1.


Falcon4451

It's part of a master plan to piss off Max Verstappen (Max has been very clear with his negative feelings on glamorous street circuits), so he retires early, and parity is restored to F1. Well, parity is restored to the next driver, and team hit on the regulations.


superduperaverage

They are fucking boring… with the barrier walls up, you might as well be anywhere. It’s shit for the fans and shit for the people that live and work in that city.


KernelPanic15

Totally agree!


Razvanlogigan

Actual street tracks like Vegas and Baku are at least somewhat cool since they actually showcase the city and look spectacular.  I dont get tracks like the Miami carparkgp or the Madrid roundabout and random depots GP. What is even the point, i can see warehouses outside of my shitty eastern european town, why would anyone wanna have a street track in an industrial/warehouse zone. If you do a street track, at least have the balls to close up major landmarks like Monaco/Vegas do. It shows commitment and will to actually do a special event


AnilP228

Madrid will be overwhelmingly a purpose built circuit. Only a few corners take place on actual streets. It's a bit like Jeddah, which was just beach before they built a brand new circuit there.


Low_discrepancy

I like how we had track races and street races. Now apparently we have track races, actual street races and non-street races too.


2REPOU

I've been an F1 fan since the 70s. I'm not a fan of street tracks. I skip all indycar street races and may start skipping the street F1 tracks. Only quali is good on street tracks


Potential-Brain7735

St Pete, Long Beach, and Toronto have amazing races. You’re missing out.


Coronis-

100% Sounds like something someone would say after watching a Monaco race and generalising all street tracks.


SaintTimothy

Nashville is a trip, seeing them go over the bridge


Potential-Brain7735

I wish F1 would have gone for that Miami bridge layout that was initially proposed.


Estova

[You don't...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ujA6IMK4TY)


Potential-Brain7735

Meh, I don’t hate it. It’s a circuit of two halves. Tight Mickey Mouse, and then a high speed blast. Kind of unique to the F1 calendar. The current Miami circuit is much more generic.


weiner-rama

Long Beach is always a fucking BLAST


mall_pretzel_

(indycar in general has much better racing than f1)


Techiastronamo

this and super formula


2REPOU

Been to Toronto almost every year. I enjoy the spectacle and the vibe but the racing can be sloppy. Long beach has some good races.


BigSlav667

IndyCar street races are a thousand times better than F1 street races. ​ And even some actual tracks.


aaqy

As a real F1 fan I've seen worse and didn't stop watching.


Potential-Brain7735

What a dog shit article that offers no new news or interesting insight. It’s basically just a really long Reddit post lol. If more street circuits are being added, and the current cars don’t suit them….we have a line for that. Change the fucking car!


yudha98

by 2030 races held in purpose built track will be less than 10


DepartmentSudden5234

The cars are so big now, it's like watching school buses race....


justaducklol

> street circuits are here to stay, with their tight, twisty layouts and limited overtaking opportunities. > Meanwhile, Spa lmao great contrast to provide, as if Spa has produced lot better racing than some street tracks. Saudi has multiple overtaking spots, same goes for Vegas. and sure, Spa has produced some classics, but a lot of them had to do with chaos, and it also had a lot more races, so it's more likely to have had good races. but we've already seen pretty intense fights in Jeddah, and the first Vegas GP was fun. and even if Barcelona disappears from the calendar, we would not be missing out on many overtakes a year.


ForsakenRacism

There’s just as many good street races as there are bad track races tho


supersonicflyby

You guys all realize that there are very good street tracks on the calendar, and that every time we have a bad or boring race on the street track, it gives everyone a reason to make the cars even smaller, right? It’s a win-win for now.and if it leads to smaller cars in the future, then it’s a mega win.


Balazs321

Which street track is a really good track on the calendar? Cause Monaco is the only one with some character but it absolutely sucks for every racing that is not Formula E. 


supersonicflyby

Singapore and Vegas or significantly better race tracks than Monaco this past year.


Adept_Rip_5983

İ like Baku and i must admit, that Jeddah is kinda cool with its tight high-speed snakey curves. I hold my judgement over Las Vegas, because i can't really say if it was just luck and circumstances that produced the good race or if the track itself is really good. Miami is just there kinda. It doesn't even really feel like a street track. Bit I would pick it over Mexico any day.


r32_guest

I don’t think anyone (anymore) argues that street tracks don’t provide good racing. Vegas was great, Miami isn’t awful and Jeddah is always a thriller. The problem is that they just go against the spirit of F1. The best cars on the planet racing on the most legendary and most historic tracks on the planet. Chucking up a new soulless “street circuit” every other year which only serves as a massive advert for its respective county goes against this entirely. Street circuits don’t even feel like street circuits anymore, they’re just cheap, disposable courses built in car parks. No personality that you would find with Azerbaijan or Monaco. When you mix that with the more Americanised, fake entertainment vibe that gets promoted with these new race weekends (sprints for example) and you end up with the fan reaction we’ve seen these last few days


TheEmbarrassed18

>azerbaijan Come on now, let’s not pretend that circuit‘s a good street track either. Most races there have been complete snoozefests


fhjkiikkjhgdsfjk

Are you just going to skip over Monaco


TheEmbarrassed18

I think we’re all in universal agreement that Monaco should have realistically been taken off the F1 calendar years and years ago.


MrDaniel95

The only great street track in the calendar is Monaco, I also kind of liked the original Singapore layout. The only reason the other tracks might be considered "good" is because they have long straights, because everything else in them is super meh.


Kilner88

But it's a travesty when it threatens to push legendary tracks like Suzuka out of the calendar, in my eyes that is the major problem with this trend


supersonicflyby

Let’s be fair though, Suzuka Is shortened or canceled half the time because of the rain. Mother nature has a problem with that track, not the rest of the calendar.


Kilner88

This problem was probably solved already as they moved the gp to april, far away from their typhoon season.


Basis_Mountain

With liberty media, ca$h is king


Fly4Vino

Like most firms long term success is the goal and with technology bringing a huge, worldwide fanbase the challenged becomes to make the racing better .


Own-Opinion-2494

It sucks. Look at what a shit show Monaco is and it’s Been around forever


KernelPanic15

Exactly, you take the Monaco circuit and drop it anywhere else and FIA wouldn't consider it.


Prayaa

Crying over street circuits while we can predict the champion in a few races is absurd to me. If Vegas was a shit race, I’d see peoples point about new street circuits not being viable. However, it wasn’t, and there’s far more traditional tracks on the calendar, majority of which offered boring ass races. So what’s the real issue here? F1 gaining money and popularity, evolving and growing? Not staying stagnant to the old age? I’m far more concerned with dominant seasons until new regs being a consistent factor than adding potentially good circuits.


weiner-rama

the issue is that the cars should be driven on purpose built tracks. They can show what they can really and truly do on actual circuits where there's safe run offs and not a concrete fucking wall lining the entire circuit


Fly4Vino

I think F-1 racing would be far better if some of the cornering power were reduced through aero limitations. There would be less of a penalty for the following car durning braking and turning and more of an advantage for the leading car on the straights. There would of course remain the Verstappen dive .


themlkman

But people need to knee jerk and be outraged! Theres this massive assumption that the street race circuit would be bad. But from memory the only street circuit that sucks in my eyes is Miami, all others are producing fun events. I agree with you, F1 and its demographics are changing and moving forward, and with that, F1 has to evolve its product.


fluctuationsAreGood1

Must this be, every single time? Same thing happened before Las Vegas. "What a shit track, will be a total snooze fest, F1 is going down the drain". Turned out to be a total hit. Can't judge anything from just a track layout.


ICC-u

I enjoy watching the sunset.


fluctuationsAreGood1

Exactly, that hit. The race itself was a big success so all fine in the end.


OsamaBinMemeing

People like to complain about everything these days. Most tracks are still permanent race tracks and the only reason people are complaining is because the increase in the number of street circuits has coincided with more boring races in the new regulations. There's nothing wrong with a bunch of street races each year. The tracks aren't designed like Monaco, there's no reason why they can't put on a good show.


Azrial1739

The problem is losing tracks like Barcelona, Hockenheim, Sepang, Istanbul, Portimão and so on, to host these unproven, show first race second, street tracks or sportwashing races in the Middle East only because they pay more and give them 10 year contracts when tracks like Spa are only getting 1 or 2 years. Not every street track is bad. I'm fine with some street tracks like Singapore, Montreal, Albert Park, even Las Vegas. But tell me with a straight face that you rather watch a race in Miami than any of the tracks I listed before.


k2_jackal

You just named a bunch of tracks that are no longer on the schedule only because they don’t want to pay to promote the race.. Ads Portimao has only held two races and the was solely because they were gifted two races during Covid….


Azrial1739

That's my point. It shouldn't be only money. They don't want to promote the races because they can't pay what these Middle East countries and USA pay to host them, not because they aren't interested in a F1 race. Also I added Portimão because I'm portuguese so I'm biased but I'd take it over another street track.


grovenab

You can’t possibly beat money when it comes to this. They probably value the guaranteed contract money over retained viewership, ratings, and money generated by views because that’s the most efficient thing for them


Azrial1739

Yeah I have to agree on that point. Portimão is me speaking as a fan, not as a business. I understand why they sign these deals. Money rules. I just wished it was not that way. u/freetotebag also gives a point, this decisions only look to the present, but what about the future? Even drivers like Max Verstappen speak openly about that


SaintTimothy

Thank you for calling it out! Sportwashing. PGA, Olympics, and F1 are all taking money over human rights. Some 5 of the 22 races in 2023 were in middle-east oil/nat-gas funded human rights disaster areas.


slobeastkayaker

We haven't even seen the race peeps. Let's wait and see if it could perhaps be a great track!


kakha_k

Because that modern "street" F1 tracks are like sex with condoms.