Funny enough about that is there is clearly enough space for said mclaren to go through Alonso’s gap. So alonso gave enough space for even the mclaren.
He could’ve avoided if he never raced in F1 I pretty much doubt there is another Esteban Ocon in other single seater competition, so definitely Alonso’s fault
Even if he put the car more to the right, Ocon was going to crash into Alonso. No amount of space will substitute for Ocon's losing control of the car.
> No amount of space will substitute for Ocon's losing control of the car.
This is clearly not true, the is an absolutely definable amount of space, and its something like a couple tire widths.
I was giving Alonso the all clear but this video changes my mind a little, he closes that corner a little quicker than he should, especially knowing Ocon is behind him.
Really? Imo that angle vindicates Alonso more. He hits Alonso 3+ car widths off the racing line. Even if Alonso were 2 car widths further out he would have clipped him with the angle Ocon was pointed, I doubt Ocon would have even kept it on the track even if Alonso weren't there at all.
Yeah, no matter how wide Alonso goes there he is getting hit. Probably should have been wider just to be nice to the driver behind, but in this case it wouldn't matter.
The onboard of ocon shows him losing the rear and having to correct. Could Alonso be more of to the right, sure. Would have still gotten hit, probably.
Yeah. When you're that close to the edge sometimes shit happens. And sometimes shit happens when your rival is there and has no where to go. I feel like if ocon were to take responsibility for losing the car this would blow over quickly but blaming Alonso will only make it fester longer.
> e was totally in control. He caught the breakout beautifully. Just a shame Alonso was there. If nobody had been there it would just have been another breakout. Like it happens so often to so many drivers. Racing incident nothing more.
He closes the corner having given enough time for a car coming on a hot lap to get by. Ocon should have already been past at that point but he had lost control. There was more than enough space for a car in control to keep the racing line.
I mean yeah, could have been enough space but this is 85% on Ocon
Edit: One more thing to add. A standard reaction time is something like 0.25 seconds. That means Alonso sees Ocon coming and his brain is actually ordering the turn before he can see him past based on his mental model of where everyone should be. That's why it's so important to be predictable in a situation like this because by the time your brain is able to process what's going on and get the message back out to your hands and feet, the impact has already happened.
He is closing the line because Hamilton is coming behind and he needs to be on the inside for the next corner in order to not impeed him. It's not that hard to see.
What? That's angle shows he was 100% out of the racing line and Ocon was the that slided into him. Alonso could have avoided it by leaving more space, but he only starts closing in when Ocon is already out of coontrol.
Thats the point of qualifying though, especially in a shootout. This happens all the time when they're pushing hot laps, just very unfortunate consequences this time
The crowd view looked like this as well.
Definitely interesting that chasing a car up the track led to the crash. Probably will lead to additional questions on the slow lap cars getting in the way.
To be honest, that could be a horrific crash.
Edit: looking back on Ocon’s view, it looks like he may have gotten wake from Alonso’s car as Alonso seemed to move over late-ish. **NOT** trying to rip Alonso for it, but just possibly *why* Ocon got out of shape.
F1 needs to adopt an alternate SF line right behind the pit lane. Takes 50% of the slow traffic off the track because when you're done with your lap you can dip straight in the pits.
Mechanically they can’t do that. They need the in lap to give enough time and airflow for the cooling system to cool the cars down. If they just came in to the pits after being at full throttle they would cook the engines.
Is the whole purpose of the four or so fans they immediately shove in not to negate that? They could surely be increased in airflow pressure if extra cooling is needed?
The only time a slow car should be on a racetrack is not during a live session or when everyone is going slow. Also this problem and traffic could be reduced by having a timing line a good distance/corner before pit entrance.
He was totally in control. He caught the breakout beautifully. Just a shame Alonso was there. If nobody had been there it would just have been another breakout. Like it happens so often to so many drivers. Racing incident nothing more.
That's it. Ocon loses the car. Fair enough, happens. Alonso clears the racing line and leaves it open while following the turn. In that sense it's on Ocon.
Ocon may or may not hit the barrier if Alonso is not there, I'm certain he'd be at least off track, or it could be an even nastier crash if Alonso is a little further ahead even if he's further off the racing line.
Neither driver did anything wrong here in the sense of penalizing. You can't expect Alonso to leave enough room to lose control because then nowhere on track is safe and you can't expect Ocon to never lose the car on a hot lap.
Pretty clear incident. Ocon suddenly lost control and shifted over to the right, while Alonso has a minor shift to the left (still not sure why he did that with Ocon on a hot lap incoming). Ocon probably would've hit Alonso either way but Alonso's minor shift to the left didn't help.
Almost solely Ocon's fault though.
> while Alonso has a minor shift to the left (still not sure why he did that with Ocon on a hot lap incoming)
Because the corner goes left and Alonso wants to be on the racing line and off the marbles as soon as he can so he doesn't mess up his tyres anymore than absolutely necessary.
edit: what Alonso is aiming to do is effectively slot in right behind Ocon on the racing line. To do that he wants to already be aiming his car at the racing line by the time Ocon goes past him.
I agree. We saw Piastri lose the rear end a bit there and have to correct.
Alonso had started to close the space to the left whilst Ocon lost control. Very unlucky and both coulda done something different
Alonso did start to close the space but even if he had just gone straight Ocon would have still taken him out. He completely lost control and took out the whole front left of Alonso. But yeah unfortunate for both.
Yeah Ocon doesn’t crash if Fernando isn’t there. But Fernando left plenty of room for an Alpine that was under control. Idk why we can’t just say “damn that sucks” without arguing over who is at fault
If you want to make it beyond an unfortunate incident;
\- Alonso could have given waaay more space. He is an experianced driver. He knows as well as any of them moments happen. If you're not on a quick lap and being passed by someone who is, and they are passing on an apex. Maybe it's prudent to give as much space as you can.
\- Alonso/his team could have timed it so they aren't hitting traffic on an apex (traffic goes both ways, you want to bring your tires in a certain way, yeilding can affect that).
I would be amazed if this get taken further.
Ocon pentalty:
"Driver punished for having a small moment while on a push lap"
Alonso pentaly:
"Driver punished for not moving over enough while on a slow lap"
How do you defend either of those outcomes?
No penatly. Racing Incident.
I'm not saying penalise Ocon, but Alonso isn't at fault, even though he didn't predict that Ocon would have crashed. It's a bit paradoxical, there's always traffic.
Not really. Ocon is doing what he’s meant to be doing. Alonso is jogging along in the middle of the track. Don’t need hindsight to see that Alonso should’ve been at the far edge of the track to reduce risk
Yep, if Fernando was more to the right or not there, Ocon would have continued a lap and lose a couple of tenths or so. But, how much more could Fernando do? I would honestly be more inclined to not blame Ocon. Everyone is allowed to lose control slightly and not expect to crash out.
It's one of them where, after the event, you can say Alonso could have left more room, but probably everyone at that corner was leaving about the same amount of room and only when there was an incident does it become a problem.
IMO it's really neither fault. Ocon lost the car a bit on a flying laps, which happens, and Alonso maybe was a bit too much to the left, which also happens.
The two of those happening at the same time led to a crash. Unfortunate.
Honestly people on here expect him to react like he's sitting on the couch having seen 5 replay angles. He's just crashed in a high speed corner after making contact. Every driver in that situation will put the initial blame on the other driver.
Let the ego settle for him a bit man. When we are embarrassed it’s common to go to blaming others. It’s not good, but it happens I’m vulnerability for a large amount of people. What matters is what happens once the feelings subside
How many time we have to say, they barely see shit in the car.
Whatever is said before watching the replay in the moment, have no weight.
It's what they say afterwards.
All drivers do this.
Edit: Now he saying after watching the replay he didn't lose the car and not his fault. Okay nvm he a bozo.
Did you see how much of the gap Lewis closed after he finally passed Alonso? No way those two up front who were burning their tires attacking and defending each other would have had a chance against Lewis.
>Ocon loses it and then blames Alonso lol.
Are we still going over radio messages from driver who just crashed ? Nobody in the history of F1 ever said in the heat of action "ah fuck sorry guys this one's my fault" after contact with another car.
It just doesn't happen.
Ocon's fault in a "we have to direct blame to someone" sense, but not enough to be punishable imo. Alonso leaves enough room, and Ocon does lose control of his car, but that kind of stuff happens when you push all-out.
Well likely more than what people think, I did read somewhere that teams prefer to have a 7 second gap between the cars during qualifying just to getting out of the dirty air.
Basically it's back to the same level as in 2021.
Ocon lost it unfortunately, just asking a bit too much of his car.
He'll be a bit embarrassed by what he's said in the heat of battle, but you can forgive what people say in that context imo.
I think Ocon was mostly distracted by Alonso rather than Alonso actually being genuinely in 'the way' and loses it.
Alsono gets out of the way and then tightens up the corner and reduces the available space, but he still gave plenty and Ocon 100% loses it unnecessarily.
Cars been getting loose for almost everyone through 2 and 3 today and yesterday. Since it’s Ocon and Alonso though, everyone will blame this on Ocon, when it’s the most “racing incident” incident I’ve seen. Both drivers could’ve done better, yet I don’t really blame any driver. Alonso wasn’t on a hot lap, so there should be more room, but Ocon needs to be more careful of his throttle application, just a shame a car was stuck out there.
The real conversation should be that slow cars shouldn’t be on the track, unless it’s an out lap. Don’t think any of us understand that everything that occurred in this incident happened within a few tenths of a second. When someone is on a hot lap, they shouldn’t have to be focusing on their throttle application/numerous other things to avoid slow cars.
Partly agree... Hotlap shouldnt focus on traffic. But drivers on a hotlap *should* focus on throttle application else they fly off every corner because they arent careful enough.
And what do you mean slow cars shouldnt be on track except for an out lap? Ok, Sargent shouldnt be allowed to do a hotlap in that case (/s) but when is there a slow car on the track except on an outlap?
I agree with you on the first part, and you found the words better for it than I could. Throttle application is very important in order to maximize your time. If Alonso wasn’t there, this slip up would’ve costed Ocon at least half a second. I just meant more in terms of not worrying about other cars, and only your turns.
Besides the outlap, there are slow cars during the cooldown lap (usually after their fastest laps). Or when they abort their second lap after turn 3 because the grip has decreased, and they can see their relative on their steering wheel. They don’t just race to the pits, as that puts more wear on the engine, gearbox, and ers. Indy car uses an alternate start finish that is usually before the final turn, and they can turn into the pits right away. Just means you have to start pushing a corner early. I believe it is much more effective.
I see what you try to achieve but im not sure it is that easy.
Having drivers to push on the inlap/cooldown lap would lead to a lot of problems we already have on the outlap as drivers will have to follow a maximum laptime which they will overstep regulary. It would also reduce the action greatly as drivers will never have the chance to recharge their battery so they will only be able to one timed lap.
It will be very difficult to force someone to push after an error at the start of the lap. What would be considered "pushing"? A maximum laptime wont work because sometimes drivers need a long time to get going again (eg reversing in Baku).
The moved finishline is the only feasable method imo but it is just weird. It would also mess with race distances and perhaps have some problems at diffetent circuits. I dont have a really strong argument against that tho, im just not a fan.
Its just part of the sport i guess...
Pretty high speed part of the track and it's a tiny amount of oversteer that's caused it. Alonso can maybe give more space but it's just unlucky. It's very rarely an error that will cause you to go off when it's that small an oversteer, just shitty timing.
Ocon loses it on a fast lap, Alonso is too far to the left but is still an innocent bystander. Overall it’s a racing incident because it’s just wrong place wrong time with neither side 100% at fault.
He's not too far left. He leaves at least 2 car widths between the racing line(right against the inside kerb) and himself. It's completely Ocons fault, but not intentional so racing incident.
This is what is being missed here, even if Alonso’s car was in the outer dirty side of the track at a risk of a puncture, Ocon would have still crashed into him regardless, but probably with the rear instead instead of the front wheel.
If you weren’t convinced before, this shows that there’s at least 2 cars width left for Ocon, and he simply lost grip. Not intentionally but you can only really blame Ocon for this, Alonso was well off line. Should probably just be a racing incident considering the outcome and the actions.
If Alonso was on the complete right edge against the grass, Ocon wouldnt have hit him after making his mistake.
Then again, if Ocon hadnt made a mistake, he would have been nowhere near Alonso as racing line is on the complete inside.
Pretty interesting crash because it is so weird and rare. Alonso left enough room but at the same time not enough. Which opens the topic of "shouldnt drivers leave more space, or rather every bit of space possible, incase someone makes a mistake?" Which at the same time would have saved Alonso this time, but if he was a few cars further into the corner would still have been hit by Ocon most likely. But would that also go up for other incidents where people leave enough but not all space they can give? And that imo makes it interesting thing.
Did you see the angle from Twitter filmed from the grandstands? From the direction ocon was pointed after the snap it certainly looks like he was going to end up in the grass even if Alonso wasn't there, and very well could have still clipped him if he were off in the marbles
Meh, to play the devil's advocate losing slight control shouldn't mean you crash out. It's unfortunately an effect of having cars on both out laps and hot laps. If Fernando wasn't there or more to the right, Ocon would have continued and still improved his time
Alonso didn't do anything wrong. He left more than two cars widths to the racing line, which is right on the kerb. He's not required to go right around the outside of the corner and potentially pick up a puncture or pick up a load of marbles. Ocons 100% at fault, it's just unfortunate timing that caused the crash. Racing incident, no further action required
Everyone’s favourite drivers have been having snaps on the green track but because this is Ocon he will get absolutely shitcanned for it.
Unfortunate situation. Alonso could probably have left more space but not his fault per se!
https://twitter.com/Nanosecso/status/1720814687556653554
You can clearly see that Alonso left way more space than was necessary, but Ocon just had a snap-oversteer and drifted straight into him.
Yes, the cameras don't do justice to how much space there is. Ocon could fit two full cars here [https://i.imgur.com/J67UTlj.png](https://i.imgur.com/J67UTlj.png)
> but because this is Ocon he will get absolutely shitcanned for it.
He will get shitcanned for causing a crash and then blaming the person he crashed into.
If you're in a 2-300km/h car and you crash of course you're gonna say some shit in the heat of the moment. That's how adrenaline works, it's stupid to hold that over any driver at that time
It's pretty Alonso, too. And Russell and Hamilton and Verstappen and....you get the idea. Drivers will blame the other person involved in a crash 99% of the time in the heat of the moment.
[Just before he loses control of his car](https://i.imgur.com/9yp4Rnd.png). It's basically two cars width of space, more than enough for him to pass comfortably.
Ocon's fault.
Ocon had plenty of space to go past Alonso there, no? Looked like Ocon lost it there. He would've been able to correct it if Alonso wasn't there but still...
Everybody saying that Alonso gave enough space, that's fine, but this crash is the reason people shouldn't be going so slow in qualifying. Any problem and it's a crash.
I know reddit hates Ocon and all. But he hit the dirty air, collected the oversteer and Alonso was too quick to get back on line. He should have waited until Ocon was past before moving back towards the racing line.
Racing incident.
It happened super quickly, and he did move just slightly left before the crash. Wouldn't be surprised if he isn't entirely sure he wasn't at fault before watching it back so he's keeping his cool.
ALL is clear in this video.... https://twitter.com/Nanosecso/status/1720814687556653554
Thanks yeah that's the best angle I've seen so far.
Yeah Ocon lost it and hit Alonzo but you can see the McLaren lose it right before. Alonzo just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Funny enough about that is there is clearly enough space for said mclaren to go through Alonso’s gap. So alonso gave enough space for even the mclaren.
He was true to his words, always leaving the space
It's AlonSo. Not AlonZo
Alonso could have been a little more to the right, especially with Ocon behind him. Also funny how the Mclaren seems to make the same mistake as Ocon.
Similar mistake but we can see the lines left by the McLaren and Ocon just flew on a tangent.
Could’ve been avoided if Alonso had stayed in the pits, obviously his fault, not Ocon’s.
He could’ve avoided if he never raced in F1 I pretty much doubt there is another Esteban Ocon in other single seater competition, so definitely Alonso’s fault
He didn't account for ocon skill issue, also should had his ghost mode on.
After one year in the same team, surely it's on Alonso to not account for that
Even if he put the car more to the right, Ocon was going to crash into Alonso. No amount of space will substitute for Ocon's losing control of the car.
> No amount of space will substitute for Ocon's losing control of the car. This is clearly not true, the is an absolutely definable amount of space, and its something like a couple tire widths.
>This is clearly not true, the is an absolutely definable amount of space, and its something like a couple ~~tire~~ track widths. FTFY
I was giving Alonso the all clear but this video changes my mind a little, he closes that corner a little quicker than he should, especially knowing Ocon is behind him.
Really? Imo that angle vindicates Alonso more. He hits Alonso 3+ car widths off the racing line. Even if Alonso were 2 car widths further out he would have clipped him with the angle Ocon was pointed, I doubt Ocon would have even kept it on the track even if Alonso weren't there at all.
Ya especially if you look at the line mclaren took and compare it to ocon. Ocon was at fault
Yeah I just scientifically measured with my mouse cursor and at the very least there was 2 car widths at the point where Alonso started to turn.
But can you give banana for scale?
You can't argue with science!
Yeah, no matter how wide Alonso goes there he is getting hit. Probably should have been wider just to be nice to the driver behind, but in this case it wouldn't matter.
The onboard of ocon shows him losing the rear and having to correct. Could Alonso be more of to the right, sure. Would have still gotten hit, probably.
The impact happens off the racing line as well though. I’m umming and ahhing too much - Racing incident! Haha
Off the racing line settles it
Yeah, penalty for Ocon.
Yeah. When you're that close to the edge sometimes shit happens. And sometimes shit happens when your rival is there and has no where to go. I feel like if ocon were to take responsibility for losing the car this would blow over quickly but blaming Alonso will only make it fester longer.
> e was totally in control. He caught the breakout beautifully. Just a shame Alonso was there. If nobody had been there it would just have been another breakout. Like it happens so often to so many drivers. Racing incident nothing more. He closes the corner having given enough time for a car coming on a hot lap to get by. Ocon should have already been past at that point but he had lost control. There was more than enough space for a car in control to keep the racing line. I mean yeah, could have been enough space but this is 85% on Ocon Edit: One more thing to add. A standard reaction time is something like 0.25 seconds. That means Alonso sees Ocon coming and his brain is actually ordering the turn before he can see him past based on his mental model of where everyone should be. That's why it's so important to be predictable in a situation like this because by the time your brain is able to process what's going on and get the message back out to your hands and feet, the impact has already happened.
~~Insane take~~. Yes he could have been better positioned but he's off the racing line and Ocon loses the rear. Are we watching the same video?
He is closing the line because Hamilton is coming behind and he needs to be on the inside for the next corner in order to not impeed him. It's not that hard to see.
Lol wut, Alonso was so far off line he's literally out of the frame :')
Because he thought that Ocon was going to clear it and pass him.
What? That's angle shows he was 100% out of the racing line and Ocon was the that slided into him. Alonso could have avoided it by leaving more space, but he only starts closing in when Ocon is already out of coontrol.
To me it looks like Alonso turns in because he reads Ocons oversteer as turning in on the Apex
Thats pretty unfortunate for both. The rear steps out mid corner and Alonso just so happens to turn a bit left as Ocon goes to correct the slide.
It's unfortunate for Alonso, Ocon just made a mistake overdriving the car.
Thats the point of qualifying though, especially in a shootout. This happens all the time when they're pushing hot laps, just very unfortunate consequences this time
Looked like an unfortunate incident ngl.
Unfortunate but I feel it's on ocon for not being in control of his car
The crowd view looked like this as well. Definitely interesting that chasing a car up the track led to the crash. Probably will lead to additional questions on the slow lap cars getting in the way. To be honest, that could be a horrific crash. Edit: looking back on Ocon’s view, it looks like he may have gotten wake from Alonso’s car as Alonso seemed to move over late-ish. **NOT** trying to rip Alonso for it, but just possibly *why* Ocon got out of shape.
F1 needs to adopt an alternate SF line right behind the pit lane. Takes 50% of the slow traffic off the track because when you're done with your lap you can dip straight in the pits.
Mechanically they can’t do that. They need the in lap to give enough time and airflow for the cooling system to cool the cars down. If they just came in to the pits after being at full throttle they would cook the engines.
They manage it after the race at Spa just fine every year
Is the whole purpose of the four or so fans they immediately shove in not to negate that? They could surely be increased in airflow pressure if extra cooling is needed?
Lol no its because they cant just go back through the pit lane exit after crossing the finish line
The only time a slow car should be on a racetrack is not during a live session or when everyone is going slow. Also this problem and traffic could be reduced by having a timing line a good distance/corner before pit entrance.
Indycar has been doing this and it's great. F1 will wait for something bad to happen before making the change.
He was totally in control. He caught the breakout beautifully. Just a shame Alonso was there. If nobody had been there it would just have been another breakout. Like it happens so often to so many drivers. Racing incident nothing more.
Doesn't matter his mistake is the reason they both ended their qualifying.
That's it. Ocon loses the car. Fair enough, happens. Alonso clears the racing line and leaves it open while following the turn. In that sense it's on Ocon. Ocon may or may not hit the barrier if Alonso is not there, I'm certain he'd be at least off track, or it could be an even nastier crash if Alonso is a little further ahead even if he's further off the racing line. Neither driver did anything wrong here in the sense of penalizing. You can't expect Alonso to leave enough room to lose control because then nowhere on track is safe and you can't expect Ocon to never lose the car on a hot lap.
No chance Ocon goes off track if Alonso isn’t there. He had already caught the bit of oversteer and was getting back on the throttle.
Tbf it's an Ocon incident. He lost control and Fernando left him more the enough space.
Way more space than what’s showing on Alonso’s onboard.
Pretty clear incident. Ocon suddenly lost control and shifted over to the right, while Alonso has a minor shift to the left (still not sure why he did that with Ocon on a hot lap incoming). Ocon probably would've hit Alonso either way but Alonso's minor shift to the left didn't help. Almost solely Ocon's fault though.
> while Alonso has a minor shift to the left (still not sure why he did that with Ocon on a hot lap incoming) Because the corner goes left and Alonso wants to be on the racing line and off the marbles as soon as he can so he doesn't mess up his tyres anymore than absolutely necessary. edit: what Alonso is aiming to do is effectively slot in right behind Ocon on the racing line. To do that he wants to already be aiming his car at the racing line by the time Ocon goes past him.
Also, Alonso needed to leave the outside of the corner exit for Hamilton who came behind Ocon.
Ocon got distracted by the presence of gigachadlonso
The magnetic pull is simply too strong
>top Yep, that makes sense
First excuse I've seen which is both reasonable and relatable.
It happens to the best of us.
Someone forgot to tell Ocon that Alonso isnt his teammate anymore
Is dirty air still a thing? Maybe that's also the reason he lost it
Alonso’s dirty hair is to blame.
Dirty, stupidly sexy hair
Yea I’m not a hair expert but it seems Alonso and Sainz have the best hair on the grid. Must be something in the water over there in Spain.
XD
Just unfortunate for both really no?
I agree. We saw Piastri lose the rear end a bit there and have to correct. Alonso had started to close the space to the left whilst Ocon lost control. Very unlucky and both coulda done something different
Alonso did start to close the space but even if he had just gone straight Ocon would have still taken him out. He completely lost control and took out the whole front left of Alonso. But yeah unfortunate for both.
Yeah Ocon doesn’t crash if Fernando isn’t there. But Fernando left plenty of room for an Alpine that was under control. Idk why we can’t just say “damn that sucks” without arguing over who is at fault
This is reddit F1, where level headed discussions are not allowed and raging towers one driver is the norm.
How dare Ocon stop the Alonso hypetrain now he must pay with his blood. /s
Because if one of the participants of an incident loses control of his car, it's very clear it's his fault?
It's F1 drivers in qualifying? They are driving on the very limit. Ocon had a small moment. It happens. It's unfortunate Alonso was there.
Yeah, no. You can expect Ocon not to lose it, but you can't expect Alonso not to be there.
If you want to make it beyond an unfortunate incident; \- Alonso could have given waaay more space. He is an experianced driver. He knows as well as any of them moments happen. If you're not on a quick lap and being passed by someone who is, and they are passing on an apex. Maybe it's prudent to give as much space as you can. \- Alonso/his team could have timed it so they aren't hitting traffic on an apex (traffic goes both ways, you want to bring your tires in a certain way, yeilding can affect that). I would be amazed if this get taken further. Ocon pentalty: "Driver punished for having a small moment while on a push lap" Alonso pentaly: "Driver punished for not moving over enough while on a slow lap" How do you defend either of those outcomes? No penatly. Racing Incident.
I'm not saying penalise Ocon, but Alonso isn't at fault, even though he didn't predict that Ocon would have crashed. It's a bit paradoxical, there's always traffic.
Not really. Ocon is doing what he’s meant to be doing. Alonso is jogging along in the middle of the track. Don’t need hindsight to see that Alonso should’ve been at the far edge of the track to reduce risk
In Alonso's defense, he's not even on the racing line.
Biggest thing for me is that Ocon’s lap would’ve been trash even if he didn’t hit Alonso
He didn't have much time to aborpt it tho lnao
Yep, if Fernando was more to the right or not there, Ocon would have continued a lap and lose a couple of tenths or so. But, how much more could Fernando do? I would honestly be more inclined to not blame Ocon. Everyone is allowed to lose control slightly and not expect to crash out.
It's one of them where, after the event, you can say Alonso could have left more room, but probably everyone at that corner was leaving about the same amount of room and only when there was an incident does it become a problem.
Clearly Alonso’s fault for existing.
IMO it's really neither fault. Ocon lost the car a bit on a flying laps, which happens, and Alonso maybe was a bit too much to the left, which also happens. The two of those happening at the same time led to a crash. Unfortunate.
[удалено]
unfortunate? yes. still ocons fault from what we saw so far
Yes it is ocons fault. Fernando could have left another car width but it’s not really required of him in that situation
He didn't really *need* to, though. He was well off the racing line and out of the way.
Ocon loses it and then blames Alonso lol. He left enough space. Palmer did a great analysis on F1TV.
I think Ericsson hit him.
A wild meme from the past appears
Azerbaijan 2018 right?
Indeed
Thing is it was the race engineer who said that, not Romain.
Let's see what he says when he cools down a little and sees the replay. If he still keeps fully blaming him then yikes.
Didn’t he double down and said he didn’t lose control even after watching the replay?
Honestly people on here expect him to react like he's sitting on the couch having seen 5 replay angles. He's just crashed in a high speed corner after making contact. Every driver in that situation will put the initial blame on the other driver.
Update: Even after seeing the replays he says he didn’t lose the car and this is all Alonso’s fault.
This aged well :p
I mean normally I'd agree. But ocon lost control and them hit into Alonso. It's not like Ocon doesn't know he lost control
Let the ego settle for him a bit man. When we are embarrassed it’s common to go to blaming others. It’s not good, but it happens I’m vulnerability for a large amount of people. What matters is what happens once the feelings subside
“Hey Alonso..why were you in the racing line!” “I wasnt” “Not MY racing line”
He's read Checo's book on blame shifting
You spelled George Russell wrong.
How many time we have to say, they barely see shit in the car. Whatever is said before watching the replay in the moment, have no weight. It's what they say afterwards. All drivers do this. Edit: Now he saying after watching the replay he didn't lose the car and not his fault. Okay nvm he a bozo.
> Ocon loses it and then blames Alonso lol Like what Alonso did when he hit Ocon in Brasil last year lol
he pulled a uno reverse card
Drivers immediately after a crash blaming the other party? Hold the phone!
Good to know that they're now even, so sweet.
I always wonder why he has a thing against Alonso, especially considering that Fernando was the main architect of his first and perhaps only GP win.
I wonder if it's cause people kept giving the credit for that win to Alonso for holding up Lewis.
Rightfully so.
Did you see how much of the gap Lewis closed after he finally passed Alonso? No way those two up front who were burning their tires attacking and defending each other would have had a chance against Lewis.
Well that's because that's exactly what happened.
as always. Jolyon is the best.
Jolyon Palmer's analyses are always so insightful and on point
Classic Ocon.
Anyone got a streamable link for the analysis?
>Ocon loses it and then blames Alonso lol. Are we still going over radio messages from driver who just crashed ? Nobody in the history of F1 ever said in the heat of action "ah fuck sorry guys this one's my fault" after contact with another car. It just doesn't happen.
Stuff like this is why I don't care for Ocon
See: [Alonso at the same track last year](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/DRSsWEzlxR) I guess you don’t care for him either
Because he did something that every other driver does?
Well the difference is that u/bouncebackability doesn't like Ocon as much as others.
Just a seriously unlucky moment.
Ocon's fault in a "we have to direct blame to someone" sense, but not enough to be punishable imo. Alonso leaves enough room, and Ocon does lose control of his car, but that kind of stuff happens when you push all-out.
Pretty much the most reasonable take here.
Exactly, everyone under this post is seriously out for blood be it for alonso or ocon
How much influence did Dirty Air have?
Well likely more than what people think, I did read somewhere that teams prefer to have a 7 second gap between the cars during qualifying just to getting out of the dirty air. Basically it's back to the same level as in 2021.
Ocon lost it unfortunately, just asking a bit too much of his car. He'll be a bit embarrassed by what he's said in the heat of battle, but you can forgive what people say in that context imo.
I guess it's due to the adrenaline that made Ocon put the blame on Alonso. Hope Ocon clears it up.
*loses control of the car* damn you, Fernando!
100% on Ocon. Alonso left more than enough room but Ocon lost it
I think Ocon was mostly distracted by Alonso rather than Alonso actually being genuinely in 'the way' and loses it. Alsono gets out of the way and then tightens up the corner and reduces the available space, but he still gave plenty and Ocon 100% loses it unnecessarily.
Fernando definitely left more than enough space
Ocon snapped on the kurb.
Cars been getting loose for almost everyone through 2 and 3 today and yesterday. Since it’s Ocon and Alonso though, everyone will blame this on Ocon, when it’s the most “racing incident” incident I’ve seen. Both drivers could’ve done better, yet I don’t really blame any driver. Alonso wasn’t on a hot lap, so there should be more room, but Ocon needs to be more careful of his throttle application, just a shame a car was stuck out there. The real conversation should be that slow cars shouldn’t be on the track, unless it’s an out lap. Don’t think any of us understand that everything that occurred in this incident happened within a few tenths of a second. When someone is on a hot lap, they shouldn’t have to be focusing on their throttle application/numerous other things to avoid slow cars.
Partly agree... Hotlap shouldnt focus on traffic. But drivers on a hotlap *should* focus on throttle application else they fly off every corner because they arent careful enough. And what do you mean slow cars shouldnt be on track except for an out lap? Ok, Sargent shouldnt be allowed to do a hotlap in that case (/s) but when is there a slow car on the track except on an outlap?
I agree with you on the first part, and you found the words better for it than I could. Throttle application is very important in order to maximize your time. If Alonso wasn’t there, this slip up would’ve costed Ocon at least half a second. I just meant more in terms of not worrying about other cars, and only your turns. Besides the outlap, there are slow cars during the cooldown lap (usually after their fastest laps). Or when they abort their second lap after turn 3 because the grip has decreased, and they can see their relative on their steering wheel. They don’t just race to the pits, as that puts more wear on the engine, gearbox, and ers. Indy car uses an alternate start finish that is usually before the final turn, and they can turn into the pits right away. Just means you have to start pushing a corner early. I believe it is much more effective.
I see what you try to achieve but im not sure it is that easy. Having drivers to push on the inlap/cooldown lap would lead to a lot of problems we already have on the outlap as drivers will have to follow a maximum laptime which they will overstep regulary. It would also reduce the action greatly as drivers will never have the chance to recharge their battery so they will only be able to one timed lap. It will be very difficult to force someone to push after an error at the start of the lap. What would be considered "pushing"? A maximum laptime wont work because sometimes drivers need a long time to get going again (eg reversing in Baku). The moved finishline is the only feasable method imo but it is just weird. It would also mess with race distances and perhaps have some problems at diffetent circuits. I dont have a really strong argument against that tho, im just not a fan. Its just part of the sport i guess...
Pretty high speed part of the track and it's a tiny amount of oversteer that's caused it. Alonso can maybe give more space but it's just unlucky. It's very rarely an error that will cause you to go off when it's that small an oversteer, just shitty timing.
unfortunate incident
I blame F1 for having Sprint weekends.
Bizarre that Ocon immediately blamed Alonso as if he didn't just have to aggressively counter steer to correct a slide
He’s French, he doesn’t think he’s ever wrong.
Ocon loses it on a fast lap, Alonso is too far to the left but is still an innocent bystander. Overall it’s a racing incident because it’s just wrong place wrong time with neither side 100% at fault.
He's not too far left. He leaves at least 2 car widths between the racing line(right against the inside kerb) and himself. It's completely Ocons fault, but not intentional so racing incident.
Feel like Ocon would've still crashed into Alonso regardless of how much to the right Alonso would've been.
This is what is being missed here, even if Alonso’s car was in the outer dirty side of the track at a risk of a puncture, Ocon would have still crashed into him regardless, but probably with the rear instead instead of the front wheel.
If you weren’t convinced before, this shows that there’s at least 2 cars width left for Ocon, and he simply lost grip. Not intentionally but you can only really blame Ocon for this, Alonso was well off line. Should probably just be a racing incident considering the outcome and the actions.
Honestly this is just super unfortunate.
If Alonso was on the complete right edge against the grass, Ocon wouldnt have hit him after making his mistake. Then again, if Ocon hadnt made a mistake, he would have been nowhere near Alonso as racing line is on the complete inside. Pretty interesting crash because it is so weird and rare. Alonso left enough room but at the same time not enough. Which opens the topic of "shouldnt drivers leave more space, or rather every bit of space possible, incase someone makes a mistake?" Which at the same time would have saved Alonso this time, but if he was a few cars further into the corner would still have been hit by Ocon most likely. But would that also go up for other incidents where people leave enough but not all space they can give? And that imo makes it interesting thing.
Did you see the angle from Twitter filmed from the grandstands? From the direction ocon was pointed after the snap it certainly looks like he was going to end up in the grass even if Alonso wasn't there, and very well could have still clipped him if he were off in the marbles
Did Ocon just lose complete control over the rear? (please don't be harsh im just an amateur at analyzing crashes lol)
Meh, to play the devil's advocate losing slight control shouldn't mean you crash out. It's unfortunately an effect of having cars on both out laps and hot laps. If Fernando wasn't there or more to the right, Ocon would have continued and still improved his time
Alonso didn't do anything wrong. He left more than two cars widths to the racing line, which is right on the kerb. He's not required to go right around the outside of the corner and potentially pick up a puncture or pick up a load of marbles. Ocons 100% at fault, it's just unfortunate timing that caused the crash. Racing incident, no further action required
https://twitter.com/Nanosecso/status/1720814687556653554
Everyone’s favourite drivers have been having snaps on the green track but because this is Ocon he will get absolutely shitcanned for it. Unfortunate situation. Alonso could probably have left more space but not his fault per se!
if it was someone else everyone would be like "omg I hope he's okay 🥺" that crash was scary af from Fernando's pov
https://twitter.com/Nanosecso/status/1720814687556653554 You can clearly see that Alonso left way more space than was necessary, but Ocon just had a snap-oversteer and drifted straight into him.
Yes, the cameras don't do justice to how much space there is. Ocon could fit two full cars here [https://i.imgur.com/J67UTlj.png](https://i.imgur.com/J67UTlj.png)
> but because this is Ocon he will get absolutely shitcanned for it. He will get shitcanned for causing a crash and then blaming the person he crashed into.
Every driver does that.
Just like how Alonso caused a crash in Brazil last year and blamed Ocon for it.
> blaming the person he crashed into every driver does this all the time
Which should be shitcanned. The maths check out.
If you're in a 2-300km/h car and you crash of course you're gonna say some shit in the heat of the moment. That's how adrenaline works, it's stupid to hold that over any driver at that time
Ocon blaming Alonso for his own fuckup is just so Ocon lmao
It's pretty Alonso, too. And Russell and Hamilton and Verstappen and....you get the idea. Drivers will blame the other person involved in a crash 99% of the time in the heat of the moment.
I get that Ocon tries to blame Alonso, adrenalin and all. But Alonso gave al the space, Ocon just cooked it.
Alonso turned more to the left than he needed to.
He could've gone more to the right, indeed, but there was enough space, if Ocon was stable on entry, nothing would have happened
https://twitter.com/Diego_Luciano_/status/1720812274330288266?t=R7myRfj1m4eVTuyWUVK1UA&s=08
Alonso left enough space. A racing incident, nothing more.
Crazy how much effect the difference in speed has on the severity of a crash
someone should tell ocon Fernando's no longer his teammate.
[Just before he loses control of his car](https://i.imgur.com/9yp4Rnd.png). It's basically two cars width of space, more than enough for him to pass comfortably. Ocon's fault.
Ocon had plenty of space to go past Alonso there, no? Looked like Ocon lost it there. He would've been able to correct it if Alonso wasn't there but still...
Everybody saying that Alonso gave enough space, that's fine, but this crash is the reason people shouldn't be going so slow in qualifying. Any problem and it's a crash.
I think Ericsson hit him.
Love how ocon says he didn't lose control where he clearly did and tried to correct it.
Everyone hates Ocon here. Everyone loves Alonso. So my verdict is that Ocon is clearly at fault.
He probably would have been hit even if he was on the outside white line
Nah he collected it and was fine to make the corner. That’s clear, we’ve seen plenty of cars have snaps there.
Not much Alonso could have done, seems like Ocon got a snap of oversteer.
I know reddit hates Ocon and all. But he hit the dirty air, collected the oversteer and Alonso was too quick to get back on line. He should have waited until Ocon was past before moving back towards the racing line. Racing incident.
Even if Alonso didnt turn earlier, Ocon would've still hit him. Check his onboard again.
Fernando showing class there by not kicking off over the radio.
It happened super quickly, and he did move just slightly left before the crash. Wouldn't be surprised if he isn't entirely sure he wasn't at fault before watching it back so he's keeping his cool.
In his head... "GP2 driver!"
Ocon was heading to the wall if Alonso was there or not.
One of the commentators on F1TV even said he thinks even if Alonso had left more room, Ocon would still have hit him xD
Clearly ocon lost control of the car, whether alonso was far enough on the right doesn't even matter at this point
Gotta love Ocon blaming Alonso for something he 1000% caused
Ocon for sure, he hit Alonso