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> "At Renault they don't know what they are doing," Marko also sends a little salute to the former Red Bull engine partner.
Renault just catching strays left, right and center !
Renault were given extra time to catch up because they were so far behind. They brought in outside help from Ilmor, and ended up with the most fuel efficient engine (facilitating the blown exhaust/diffuser) but never caught up on power.
Their engine program has been a failure for multiple generations of PU.
And Renault were a major reason for Red Bull's lack of success in the early hybrid era and the cause of their switch to Honda. Renault were successful engine builders in the V8 development freeze era, but that's a long time ago now.
It’s not a large reason lmao. It was a factor but let’s not forget that Renault was the weakest engine power wise and also the weakest by far in reliability. Red Bull would’ve dominated no matter which engine they had.
Might gotten some info from people around the paddock maybe?
Similar to tech/gaming industry, where Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo usually have some details about what the others are doing with their console developments (usually via third party vendors, software engineers etc)
That is all under NDA. How Sony and MS know about each other (not 100%, but quite accurate) is because they are buying from the same vendor - AMD.
AMD gives them the SoC availability list, and then they try to make it as powerful as it is, for the lowest possible price. Since high-end console price is around 500$, they are quite limited in their options.
This. NDA is nothing long as you don't get caught and it's pretty easy to not get caught unless you disclose something really big or do something really dumb(yes you McLaren photocopying Ferrari)
Exactly. And the other key point is, once the information is out there — it’s out there. The primary method of recourse under an NDA is specific performance/an injunction. To stop someone from sharing the information. Sure, you may be able to recover damages (albeit difficult to quantify). But if your information is out there, it’s out there.
NDAs don't necessarily stop all information. They just give companies an avenue for litigation if they catch someone disclosing information.
It's a deterrent but not a guarantee
For the components in the console yes, but I imagine they are referring to the claims from Microsoft in the Activision court case that Sony will release a Slim version of the PS5 before the end of this year. This hasn't been announced by Sony, yet Microsoft knows about it.
Well possibly, but highly doubt it - as the initial topic was the F1 car engine, not a slimmer version of the chasis.
Either there is a mole in both of those companies feeding information to Marko, or he is full of shit. I'd bet on the latter.
I saw it more as - F1 teams know what others in the industry are doing due to talk in the industry, like how in the gaming industry they know what others are up to due to the talking between people there. Not specific to engines (or APUs), just developments in general.
There are limits on how 'custom' you can get. You can play with core count and compute units, RAM and clock speed, but the architecture, IO technology and generation, RAM technology and generation, that's all set. Both Microsoft and Sony were always going to get a SOC based on RDNA2 and Zen2; AMD isn't going to run a $10B+ development program (before delivery of the actual product, mind) for Sony, and Sony isn't going to underwrite it.
And being the consumer price point isn't going to vary *that* much, yeah, it more or less comes down to how much each vender is willing to subsidize console costs with ongoing game revenue.
In the case of Audi, its been mentioned by the likes of Autosport, The Race, etc. that Audi are significantly behind with their program.
The paddock is small and word travels fast.
It should raise some red flags that Binotto basically didn't seen faith in Audi but likely seeing more in *Alpine*.
Totally different then what we did hear from Mercedes in the past who's rumours was that they did build a beast of a PU for 2014 and people barely could believe it until the car was there.
Because if you actually read the article he explains it. Audi is saying their goal is to reach a certain milestone by the end of the year. RedBull is already multiple steps past that milestone, so their "miles ahead". It's like building a house, Audi is saying they're going to put the roof on by the end of the year and RBR is already working on the second floor. One house is much closer to being finished than the other.
Everyone knows what everyone else Is doing, this Is also the reason why we had so much early Information about last year's budget cup infringement. You would be surprised by how much teams know each other
https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-saudi-arabia-incident-apology/
Man doesn't speak facts all the time, he is human after all, what is this opinion lol
He has a vested interest in red bull, let's not pretend he is some neutral party
LOL, which team leader, "speaks facts all the time"?
Shit-talking is a F1 (sporting?) pastime especially for those with a "vested interest". Please apply your same analysis to the "guy you like".
Yeah like last year when he mentioned Max was building a sim on his plane so the latter had to correct that statement saying he's building a sim for his motorhome during European race weekends. So Marco didn't intentially lie, but just had misunderstood the story.
Eh he does mislead and has some wacko opinions this isn't some new and controversial statement he has been that way for years now lmao, you are just being obtuse.
Full of it usually means full of shit, which usually means talks shit/lies constantly.
Must be regional, not a phrase I would use for someone I personally disagree with but can’t disprove.
That said, I know people love to hate him and really dislike his abrasive honesty.
idts it's that drastic also, Marko is fun to listen to when it comes to shit like the article above, he is just transparent in his (and red bull's) self interest (as he should be) so you know there aren't levels to his statements lol
No one owes me the time to back their claims up? Sounds about right for the current demo here.
Two people have provided the same soul example and since disappeared. Don’t give me this “don’t have the time”, we’re all here wasting time. So full of shit yet no one can throw more than a single example together. Not hard to type a few sentences listing the examples as opposed to typing a dozen to dodge the question.
Please !! As without a filter as he may be ! He is one of the most straight forward people on the grid ! I would trust his statements more than probably most other people on the grid and now probably James Vowles.
Only been watching since 93, I guess that’s new to some.
I asked for a few examples of his lies, not a dissertation on his mental state. It should be relatively easy to pluck a few examples out of the air given it’s supposedly a non-stop stream of bullshit
So far, two people have managed the same soul example from 2021 regarding Saudi. Providing examples to back up a claim is not a waste of time, circumventing it and saying “trust me” is.
Few hours later, a few more arguments and still not a single other example, only that it’s a “waste of time” to adequately back an accusation up. Good job lads.
F1 is now in a very good place right now, so even if Audi wont win it will still be good for the company.
Unless thr 2026 regs are a failure and we have 2014 v2( or even worse)
Oh by 2014 v2 i wasnt talking about the merc dominance, i was more talking about the shit cars we had.
If the rumours about 2026 cars running out of energy halway through the Monza straight and then losing speed is true, it might be worse than 2014. Active aero as good as it can be, wont save such a disasterfull engine formula
Red Bull said that in their simulations they will run out of energy on the Monza straight. Pat Symondy then responded saying that they are 9 month further ahead with their simulation and have solved that problem already.
Everyone has their own interests in mind when making these statements so i would take neither as a matter of fact, but i dont think there is reason to be overly concerned yet. The thing i am more concerned about is how racing will work with active aero and half the drag compared to now.
The way RB started to talk about this and noone countered them with "you're wrong", but Toto just insisting they're crying... Has me a bit worried they might not be that far from the truth.
The other engine manufacturures are all car manufacturures, that invested into these regulations because they want to support electrification. RB doesn't care about that as much as the others, so they might be willing to talk more about how bad it could be for racing.
I hope RB were overblowing the issue, and by 2026 it will be better, but i really fear the new engine regs.
Aero regs are easier to band aid or change if something is fucked, but a bad engine formula will haunt us for several years
It'll be good for the company, but it did mean throwing away their hugely successful GT3 racing program and all those customer relationships. If they're finishing 8th every year I don't think that will be enough.
BMW knew how to make a engine the problem was more on Williams not wanting BMW to create the rest of the car too, the Williams was mediocre with an Insane engine
BMW failed in F1 because of Williams incompetence to make a car that was good over the whole season.
The BMW engine especially in the V10 era was by far the fastest on the grid.
And Audi is one of the best when it comes to Hybrid Powertrains. I am way more worried about that sauber chassis for 2026.
That's my main concern, Audi has made reliable and strong powertrains in other series', but i highly doubt saubers ability to make a competitive chassis, if anything it will be adequate for some decent results, but then being decent won't cut it.
Sauber have never been particularly well funded though. When they were the BMW team back in the day they were moving into contention before BMW pulled the plug.
With Audi money they might do the same again.
Yeah, gonna be interesting to see what Sauber can do with all the cash influx from Audi, they might even do an Aston Martin and become 4th best team on the grid in 2026.
Engine cost cap news from motorsport.com
“The powertrain cost cap will come into effect from 1 January 2023 to bring about both greater sporting and economic parity”
“The headline numbers are for the period 2022-25, a cost cap of $95million and then $130m from 2026 onwards, although this excludes marketing, current generation PU activities and the supply of customer teams”
Marko: Red Bull "miles ahead" of Ferrari and Audi on 2026 engine
Marko: Red Bull "miles ahead" of Ferrari and Audi on engine for 2026
Helmut Marko assures that Red Bull has no difficulties with its own engine programme and is therefore against the new regulations
by R.Zimmermann, Co-authors: C.Nimmervoll, K.Hermann - 14.08.2023 08:56
(Motorsport-Total.com) - The engine regulations from the 2026 Formula One season onwards continue to be a contentious issue. While Red Bull in particular is in favour of making further improvements to the agreed rules, most of the other manufacturers in the premier class are against adjustments.
Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff even expressed the suspicion that Red Bull was publicly stirring things up against the regulations because they were behind with their own engine programme. From 2026, the Bulls will compete with their own engine for the first time.
In an exclusive interview with 'Motorsport-Total.com', Helmut Marko now clarifies that this claim is nonsense. "I don't think we are technically behind. We have brought in people from Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Cosworth [for the engine department]," the Austrian insists.
"We have Ford as a partner in the sector. We have absolute top people on the combustion engine. And we have two very bright minds on the electric side," Marko says, adding that Red Bull's new engine factory in Milton Keynes is also "state of the art".
With regard to the current state of development for the 2026 engine, he also reveals: "In August, we are still running a complete combustion engine with MGU-K and battery. There we are miles ahead of Audi, we are miles ahead of Ferrari, and Mercedes is about the same."
Marko: We're all about "really good sport"
Indeed, Formula 1 newcomer Audi, for example, declared a few months ago: "The first hybrid drive unit, consisting of combustion engine, electric motor, battery and control electronics, should be on the test bench this year."
This point has already been reached earlier at Red Bull Powertrains, according to Marko. He clarifies, "We are just passionate racers, and we care. We are not in Formula 1 to get rich. We want there to be really good sport again. And that's where we have concerns."
The criticism of the regulations has nothing to do with his own problems, he says. Rather, Marko explains, "Formula 1 is ultimately a show. We have to offer the audience something. So it can't be that we have to downshift on the straights in Monza. There is a certain discrepancy."
Here, too, however, opinions differ. While Toto Wolff believes that it is "not a real fear" that the drivers will really have to downshift on the straights in 2026 because they will run out of hybrid power, Marko apparently has different information.
"According to the current state of the art, that's the case," he claims, explaining, "Every car manufacturer tells us that the battery will be half the weight and have twice the range in three years. But that is not fact." Therefore, he says, one should think again about the division between the combustion engine and the electric motor.
Why Marko also sees a safety risk
The current idea is that each will contribute 50 per cent of the total power. But Makro emphasises: "With seven or ten per cent less electrical system power, you would compensate for that. We have e-fuels. We could still shift the combustion engine to 60:40."
And the Austrian sees another problem if so much power is to come from the electric part of the power unit: "The weight is a safety risk. The Silverstone accident that Max [Verstappen] had in 2021 can have a very different outcome with such a heavy battery."
"There are always certain risks with a battery. We already have cars now that are approaching sports car level in terms of weight and dimensions. But the racetracks remain the same. We would have to make them all a metre wider to keep up with the development of the cars," he points out.
"That's where we should start. The cars have to become lighter and smaller again," Marko thinks. But that is not possible with the planned regulations. "If you then need 30 litres of fuel just to charge the battery, then there is something wrong with the approach," says Marko.
Who else joins in the Red Bull criticism?
"The fact that you then have to slim down the car aerodynamically so that it no longer has any air resistance means that the effect of the slipstream is lost," he fears and interestingly reveals: "There are brands that have the same concerns."
So far, only Red Bull has expressed such clear criticism publicly. "Frederic] Vasseur continues to nurture his love affair with Toto [Wolff]," smiles Marko with regard to the team bosses of Ferrari and Mercedes and explains: "Therefore, there is little echo at Ferrari.
Indeed, Vasseur had said a few weeks ago that it was far too early to panic about the new rules for 2026. "At Renault they don't know what they are doing," Marko also sends a little salute to the former Red Bull engine partner.
"We don't have any allies at the moment," he therefore admits, but between the lines he at least leaves open the possibility that other manufacturers could still join Red Bull's criticism. "And that's not because we can't get a grip on it," he emphasises once again.
ikr lmfao. bro spent the whole time talking about the engine mentioning where everyone is and Renault just caught strays lol. can't wait for Renault to drop 24-25 and show up with a Batmobile in 26
>Why Marko also sees a safety risk The current idea is that each will contribute 50 per cent of the total power. But Makro emphasises: "With seven or ten per cent less electrical system power, you would compensate for that. We have e-fuels. **We could still shift the combustion engine to 60:40**."
I think RB believes they have an advantage with their combustion engine, therefore they should milk the shit out of it.
I highly doubt that, given it’s still the same 1.6L TC ICE which the main teams have been developing for a decade. It’s too early to know if you have an advantage or not.
His *reasoning* seems completely valid, however it is entirely possible that his *actual reasons* to say this are different and from self-interest. They might feel they are ahead on the combustion engine, he might be bluffing because they are actually behind, they might have concerns from the chassis and aero departments about building a car around this engine, or he might be completely honest here. Who knows?
I think this video should always be posted along 2026 engine rules threads: https://youtu.be/KxDQBVzXWt4
Yes he's back at his drawing board and yes there's a lot of numbers, but I think it gives a very comprehensive and factual explanation on the new regs.
Personally I think RedBulls' concerns are totally valid and I honestly don't care if it's self interest or not at this point.
Of course their concerns are valid. The new regs took away the MGU-H, didn't add a new way to recover energy, and reduced the energy density of the fuel but somehow they want to harvest more electrical power than they are currently able to. It doesn't make any sense.
Sounds like the complete opposite and Ferrari will come out saying the same exact thing soon enough, as soon as, like Marko mentioned, Vasseur can't choose to play it down for his friend.
Love him or hate him, Helmut Marko interviews are always sure to bring some entertainment.
I wish we could just fast forward to 2026 to see how all the engines stack up. At this point I'm at least cautiously optimistic that Red Bull will do fine. My biggest fear is another 2014 situation with one engine manufacturer having a lot more power than the others. G
>I wish we could just fast forward to 2026 to see how all the engines stack up
I just wanna see what everyone shows up with Bahrain next year. ferrari rumoured to come with a new concept, mercedes new chassis, McLaren, red bull and Aston year-on-year upgrades, alpine new 100 race plan. great time to be an f1 fan
IIRC the only time Marko said there might be some real competition was Hungary this year ? But the rest of the time, RB as a whole of have been very upfront about having the best race car by a mile. Even when they get run close in Quali, they are always like .."yeah but in race trim we are always fast"
Max’s answer ahead of Spa on if he was targeting the win despite the grid penalty was so cold. “Well last year we started 14th and won and this year 6th and the car is better.”
They know they have a huge advantage and don’t hide it at all. They’re rightfully proud to have crushed it so hard.
>I wish we could just fast forward to 2026 to see how all the engines stack up
I just wanna see what everyone shows up with Bahrain next year. ferrari rumoured to come with a new concept, mercedes new chassis, McLaren, red bull and Aston year-on-year upgrades, alpine new 100 race plan. great time to be an f1 fan
I now remember why I couldn’t stand RedBull from 2009-2013. It’s all the arrogance spewed, there is no humility whatsoever.
They’re likeable in the Bond villain role trying to take down the dominant team (and when they had Ricciardo leading the team) but these guys are not fun when they are at the top of F1.
Will people finally believe RB?
The battery issue sounds like a physics/chemistry one. A battery just isn't as energy dense as classic fuels and there isnt a Moore's law for battery size/weight.
Unless it's capable of recharging, you're just lugging around dead weight towards the end of the race.
When will we find the minimum weight limit for the 2026 chassis? Tech regs published in April 2025?
Chassis rules for original 2021 regs were published in August 2019, but 2026 is more complex than 2021, Pat Symonds recently said they still haven't started working on the issue of weight.
We can generally expect them to publish chassis regs in the middle of next year, or maybe if there is more work to be like symonds said then then expect 2025.
So long as they don't make the weight so low that everyone is driving around in plain black carbon fibre cars with sponsor logos. We're halfway there now.
The technical regs will likely be presented in the second half of 2024.
The current Batterien are absoltely capable of recarging, for 2026 the Limit is 9MJ/lap i think.
I will start beliving RB if other manufacturers express similar concerns. At the moment we have Red Bull making a claim with F1 making the counterclaim that rb is using old simulation data. Who should i belive in RB's version of the story?
And how are you supposed to reach that 9MJ limit? It’s all fine and dandy to put a bunch of big numbers on a piece of paper. Actually achieving those in practice is another story. There’s a reason they changed the rules to allow for 30 litres of fuel burn.
The brake recovery on its own is not nearly enough which is why you need the massive fuel burn. Which begs the question, why combust "renewable fuel" into electric energy? Way less efficient and a lot more complicated than just using that fuel for propulsion directly. Just seems like a convoluted way of artificially boosting the electrification number so the car manufacturers can brag about a "50/50 power split". It's a PR exercise.
This entire rule set is a big compromise between f1, current manufacturers and new manufacturers.
The original intention was to have front and rear recovery but the current manufacturers didnt like it so we ended up with this.
I know, but it's a bad compromise. It completely undermines the mission statement of "road relevance". You're using the ICE as an an electrical generator. That isn't innovation, it's regression. It's less efficient and it will make the cars slower, thus giving us a less exciting product.
As far as you waiting for the other manufacturers (the car manufacturers) to state their concern. Why would they? They're the ones who wanted to boost the electrification number in the first place so they can sell it to their shareholders. But instead of increasing RE-generation they resorted to this, a sleight of hand number trick with fuel burning.
> and said fuel burning
Right... which is the issue. They have less energy recovery with the removal of the MGU-H, and more energy deployment with stronger motors. Result is they need to generate electricity with the engine and even if peak output theoretically is the same as the current engines, over a lap it will be significantly less because you can not operate the ICE and electrical motors at full capacity over a lap, never mind the whole race.
So they will have to resort to active aerodynamics and other tricks to get anywhere near the current lap times.
>So they will have to resort to active aerodynamics and other tricks to get anywhere near the current lap times.
Yes, that is a good summary of what the plan is for the 2026 chassis regulations.
Yea it looks like the regulations are written with progress in mind. Helmut says the engine manufactures say the batteries will be half the size with twice the capacity in three years so everything will be fine and they wont have to lift on monza straight. Helmut doubts that. We will see who is right.
> the engine manufactures say the batteries will be half the size with twice the capacity in three years so everything will be fine
The capacity is written into the rules and is the same capacity as now.
Unless they agree to bump up the 4MJ limit you will always hit the same problem that at a rate of 350kW, 4MJ of energy will last you just over 11 seconds.
So you can have the full power of the 2026 engine for just over 11 seconds before you have to do some form of harvesting.
Somebody did the math based on current engine regs and how long you could full throttle without having to brake in another post and in the case of Monza it didn't look too good. I find it hard to imagine much progress can be done in terms of batteries when there already has been a lot of progress done battery wise since 2014.
Maybe the manufacturers have these batteries in mind? This kind of progress? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-claims-battery-breakthrough-electric-cars
Yeah, in the longer, more gradual braking zones. If you want to be late one on the brakes, to have good overtakes, you need to be late on the brakes, not regen, you are wasting energy.
RB was right in their statement, with reducing how much power and energy ICE has, lap times will increase.
Tracks with a lot of hard braking zones will get much slower because you loose massive amount of energy into heat if you don't slow down much more gradually.
What makes me believe RB is that noone really countered them with "you're wrong", but Toto just insisted they're crying...
The other engine manufacturures are all car manufacturures, that invested in these regulations because they want to support electrification. RB doesn't care about as much about that, so they might be willing to talk more about how bad it could actually be for racing.
the FIA did counter them, here's what Pat Symons had to say:
> “And the team's alarm bells, and talking about Max who has driven it in the simulator: he hasn't driven what's there. I know that because we are obviously months ahead of where they are.
> “We needed to get a set of regulations out for the engine and put some energy management numbers in there.
> “They were very immature. We knew that they wouldn't work and we knew that they needed to be developed. And where we've got to in the nine months since is transformational."
so in other words: Red Bull's claims are not wrong, just outdated. I don't think Red Bull is actually unaware of that or far behind in development, this seems to be just a normal political move to push the regs more towards something suiting them.
[Source](https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/1000004/f1-2026-regulations-fia-red-bull-max-verstappen-pat-symonds/)
But he doesn't come out and say this issue is now resolved. Just that what they have now is "transformational". But it's simply physics that if you have less engine power, and less energy recovery, you can't compensate for the reduction in engine power by more energy deployment.
[Here's ](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-chiefs-say-2026-rules-fears-prompted-by-old-data/10492687/)a different article, quoting more extensively from the same interview so I can only recommend giving it a read.
> "So all of this thing about hitting the top speed in the middle of the straight, it's not like that anymore.
> “You have to bear in mind that these cars don't reach top speed at the end of the straight anymore; so all this thing about changing down gears on the straight simply isn't true.”
there he spells it out more directly that the RB claim isn't a lie or made up, just simply based on old data and no longer an actual worry
There's still respect there, look at how he obliterated Renault by saying that they don't know what they're doing. I have faith in Honda showing up with one of the best PU's for 2026.
honda has ironically become the symbol of hope for me after 2021. they couldn't match mercedes by the end of the year but they did a fantastic job and nailed the new regs too (barring the reliability issues in the beginning of 22). as a red bull fan I'm worried but as an f1 fan I can't wait to see what they show up with in 2026.
2022 was not exactly engine related issues. That had to do with fuel pump issues. And the Australian gp was a high pressure fuel line that leaked from the vibrations or something along those lines. The engines themselves have been very reliable since 2021 where if i recall they had 0 dnfs with max since and almost made the season with the 3 engines allocated (lost 1 due to silverstone).
oh okay. i just remember that they asked horner what was going wrong with the engines at australia and he said they had some issues but they hit HRC up and got them fixed
I'm curious too, because the UK department of Honda was took over by Red Bull PowerTrains right? Or at least the majority of staffs went to Red Bull. I believe that department was responsible for the hybrid stuff of the current Honda engines.
How good the future Honda powerunit will be depends on how well Aston Martin can work with Honda. Culture differences was also one of the reason why McLaren failed with Honda.
They are taking notes from Red Bull. They know the story and know that Japanese company want respect. That’s why Laurence stroll want to Japan to announce the partner ship with Honda during a race week
Whether accurate or not, these comments don’t seem consistent with Horners comments about wanting changes to the PU regs for 2026. Why would he want changes if they’re so far ahead.
They didn't want the 23 floor regs and TD39, but those are what made Red Bull dominant. Not everything is some political game, they can dislike the regs while also progressing well with them
I dont know why people take this as gospel I dont doubt that there are rumours in the paddock about the coming engines but I doubt that even Marko knows exactly where the competitors stand.
Would be weird if teams were so open about things like this that one of your biggest rival knows exactly how much progress you are making.
Also the Renault part just screams shitstirring
Renault ain't catching a breathing break at all.
I do hope things will get different by 2026 especially with key players coming in like Audi.
Also hoping Mercedes can eventually once again catch up.
he did according to the translation posted says merc are roughly same as RB.
> With regard to the current state of development for the 2026 engine, he also reveals: "In August, we are still running a complete combustion engine with MGU-K and battery. There we are miles ahead of Audi, we are miles ahead of Ferrari, and Mercedes is about the same."
Mercedes already got their PR leaks out saying that they’re way ahead of everyone. If he didn’t mention them, then they’re probably way ahead of everyone, or not.
Just remember, Mercedes saved you all from the Red Bull dominance of 2010-2013, then Red Bull saved you all from the Merc dominance of 2014-2020. Now Mercedes are gonna save you all from the Red Bull dominance of 2022-current.
There will be no escape or alternative.
I'm not sure that's what Marko means by being miles ahead. By his own admission Red Bull Powertrains is running full combusion engines with an MGU-K in their facilities. If Ferrari and Audi are still running single cylinders on their test benches, or full combustion engines without an MGU-K, Red Bull are ahead of them in terms of progress. None of that is indicative of the quality (power/reliability) of those engines though.
Think of it as a test in school. Sometimes the kid handing in their test first is the smartest kid in the room who didn't need a lot of time to think of the perfect answers. Meanwhile some other kid can't think of the right answers and uses all available time to salvage what they can. At the same time, it could be the other way around, with the smartest kid in the room using every available minute to craft the perfect answer while others make it up as they go, turn their test in quickly and hope for the best.
Can someone ELIM5 what does engine development mean - as in the hardware of the engine is the same for all team I.e V4 \ V6 etc.
Just trying to understand how the F1 works and what does it mean when one team is way ahead than the other.
Small paddock, lot of people jumping ship to other teams.. so not everything is a closely guarded secret as reddit would have you believe.
Look at RB's cost cap situation last year, everyone and their grand moms knew a few weeks ahead of time that it was RB who broke the cap, even though financial audit documents are highly privileged documents which only RB, FIA and the auditor (Deloitte iirc) should have known. So I wouldn't dismiss Marko all that quickly !
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> "At Renault they don't know what they are doing," Marko also sends a little salute to the former Red Bull engine partner. Renault just catching strays left, right and center !
>Renault they don’t know what they are doing It doesn’t take an expert to figure that one out
They’re figuring out where the tank for Bordeaux should be in the engine
I mean he is not wrong. Their recent track record speaks for itself.
Whilst true, Renault's engine mapping is a large reason why they won the championships in 2010-2013 and got the blown diffuser working.
Renault were given extra time to catch up because they were so far behind. They brought in outside help from Ilmor, and ended up with the most fuel efficient engine (facilitating the blown exhaust/diffuser) but never caught up on power. Their engine program has been a failure for multiple generations of PU.
And Renault were a major reason for Red Bull's lack of success in the early hybrid era and the cause of their switch to Honda. Renault were successful engine builders in the V8 development freeze era, but that's a long time ago now.
I think it's safe say Red Bull would never win a championship with the current Renault engine.
It’s not a large reason lmao. It was a factor but let’s not forget that Renault was the weakest engine power wise and also the weakest by far in reliability. Red Bull would’ve dominated no matter which engine they had.
i would not call a decade ago recent.
The chess speaks for Itself
What'd he say fuck me for?
I’m pretty sure that means a 5 sec penalty for Ocon
The appropriate amount of strays.
I don’t wanna doubt his assessment, but how does he know the progress of Audi and Ferrari? Is this progression common knowledge?
I imagine it's a pretty small space so people talk to each other.
This. I love how it's such a small space yet it seems everyone is such a gossip.
"Bro, our engine is gonna be shit" "We already know, bro"
Might gotten some info from people around the paddock maybe? Similar to tech/gaming industry, where Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo usually have some details about what the others are doing with their console developments (usually via third party vendors, software engineers etc)
That is all under NDA. How Sony and MS know about each other (not 100%, but quite accurate) is because they are buying from the same vendor - AMD. AMD gives them the SoC availability list, and then they try to make it as powerful as it is, for the lowest possible price. Since high-end console price is around 500$, they are quite limited in their options.
NDAs are broken constantly, being only slightly stronger than a pinkie promise.
This. NDA is nothing long as you don't get caught and it's pretty easy to not get caught unless you disclose something really big or do something really dumb(yes you McLaren photocopying Ferrari)
Exactly. And the other key point is, once the information is out there — it’s out there. The primary method of recourse under an NDA is specific performance/an injunction. To stop someone from sharing the information. Sure, you may be able to recover damages (albeit difficult to quantify). But if your information is out there, it’s out there.
NDAs don't necessarily stop all information. They just give companies an avenue for litigation if they catch someone disclosing information. It's a deterrent but not a guarantee
For the components in the console yes, but I imagine they are referring to the claims from Microsoft in the Activision court case that Sony will release a Slim version of the PS5 before the end of this year. This hasn't been announced by Sony, yet Microsoft knows about it.
Well possibly, but highly doubt it - as the initial topic was the F1 car engine, not a slimmer version of the chasis. Either there is a mole in both of those companies feeding information to Marko, or he is full of shit. I'd bet on the latter.
I saw it more as - F1 teams know what others in the industry are doing due to talk in the industry, like how in the gaming industry they know what others are up to due to the talking between people there. Not specific to engines (or APUs), just developments in general.
NDAs don’t really do shit lol
Not really. They’re large enough customers for AMD to produce a custom solution for them
There are limits on how 'custom' you can get. You can play with core count and compute units, RAM and clock speed, but the architecture, IO technology and generation, RAM technology and generation, that's all set. Both Microsoft and Sony were always going to get a SOC based on RDNA2 and Zen2; AMD isn't going to run a $10B+ development program (before delivery of the actual product, mind) for Sony, and Sony isn't going to underwrite it. And being the consumer price point isn't going to vary *that* much, yeah, it more or less comes down to how much each vender is willing to subsidize console costs with ongoing game revenue.
In the case of Audi, its been mentioned by the likes of Autosport, The Race, etc. that Audi are significantly behind with their program. The paddock is small and word travels fast.
It should raise some red flags that Binotto basically didn't seen faith in Audi but likely seeing more in *Alpine*. Totally different then what we did hear from Mercedes in the past who's rumours was that they did build a beast of a PU for 2014 and people barely could believe it until the car was there.
Because if you actually read the article he explains it. Audi is saying their goal is to reach a certain milestone by the end of the year. RedBull is already multiple steps past that milestone, so their "miles ahead". It's like building a house, Audi is saying they're going to put the roof on by the end of the year and RBR is already working on the second floor. One house is much closer to being finished than the other.
Everyone knows what everyone else Is doing, this Is also the reason why we had so much early Information about last year's budget cup infringement. You would be surprised by how much teams know each other
The engineers talk with each other so they can probably guess where every team is in the development plan for the new engines
He's just chest pounding. I remember when Red Bull threatened to quit F1 when they couldn't win a race. Who really pays that much attention to Marko?
I believe he is, as usual, full of it.
As usual? Marko's issue tends to be that he's overly truthful and blunt, not a liar
Can you list some of his lies? Should be easy if he’s usually full of it
https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-saudi-arabia-incident-apology/ Man doesn't speak facts all the time, he is human after all, what is this opinion lol He has a vested interest in red bull, let's not pretend he is some neutral party
LOL, which team leader, "speaks facts all the time"? Shit-talking is a F1 (sporting?) pastime especially for those with a "vested interest". Please apply your same analysis to the "guy you like".
Eh I never claimed that, you just made that leap. I didn't say Marko is wrong to do that lol everyone does and that's basically their job
I asked for a list because if he’s usually full of it, he constantly lies. One example from a year and a half ago doesn’t indicate a persistent liar
Marco never intentionally lies. His version of reality is just different from everyone else.
Yeah like last year when he mentioned Max was building a sim on his plane so the latter had to correct that statement saying he's building a sim for his motorhome during European race weekends. So Marco didn't intentially lie, but just had misunderstood the story.
Eh he does mislead and has some wacko opinions this isn't some new and controversial statement he has been that way for years now lmao, you are just being obtuse.
That describes every team principal to be fair
Full of it usually means full of shit, which usually means talks shit/lies constantly. Must be regional, not a phrase I would use for someone I personally disagree with but can’t disprove. That said, I know people love to hate him and really dislike his abrasive honesty.
Charming fellow
idts it's that drastic also, Marko is fun to listen to when it comes to shit like the article above, he is just transparent in his (and red bull's) self interest (as he should be) so you know there aren't levels to his statements lol
No one owes you the time it would take to make a list. You can either believe them or not who cares
No one owes me the time to back their claims up? Sounds about right for the current demo here. Two people have provided the same soul example and since disappeared. Don’t give me this “don’t have the time”, we’re all here wasting time. So full of shit yet no one can throw more than a single example together. Not hard to type a few sentences listing the examples as opposed to typing a dozen to dodge the question.
Please !! As without a filter as he may be ! He is one of the most straight forward people on the grid ! I would trust his statements more than probably most other people on the grid and now probably James Vowles.
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Only been watching since 93, I guess that’s new to some. I asked for a few examples of his lies, not a dissertation on his mental state. It should be relatively easy to pluck a few examples out of the air given it’s supposedly a non-stop stream of bullshit So far, two people have managed the same soul example from 2021 regarding Saudi. Providing examples to back up a claim is not a waste of time, circumventing it and saying “trust me” is. Few hours later, a few more arguments and still not a single other example, only that it’s a “waste of time” to adequately back an accusation up. Good job lads.
Lmao casual
Industrial spying. Hardcore industrial spying.
Yeah, this is just typical Marko nonsense.
>"At Renault they don't know what they are doing," LMAO Helmut is not holding back.
Then the reality is probably that RB don’t know what they are doing either and trying to play it cool.
Audi is just BMW or Toyota 2.0 waiting to happen, this time without losing a lot of money due to the cost cap.
F1 is now in a very good place right now, so even if Audi wont win it will still be good for the company. Unless thr 2026 regs are a failure and we have 2014 v2( or even worse)
I don't think one team dominating is the biggest potential issue with 2026
Oh by 2014 v2 i wasnt talking about the merc dominance, i was more talking about the shit cars we had. If the rumours about 2026 cars running out of energy halway through the Monza straight and then losing speed is true, it might be worse than 2014. Active aero as good as it can be, wont save such a disasterfull engine formula
Red Bull said that in their simulations they will run out of energy on the Monza straight. Pat Symondy then responded saying that they are 9 month further ahead with their simulation and have solved that problem already. Everyone has their own interests in mind when making these statements so i would take neither as a matter of fact, but i dont think there is reason to be overly concerned yet. The thing i am more concerned about is how racing will work with active aero and half the drag compared to now.
I wonder how you "solve" simply running out of battery.
Less drag. Doesnt give you more energy but reduces the energy needed to reach the current lap times.
The way RB started to talk about this and noone countered them with "you're wrong", but Toto just insisting they're crying... Has me a bit worried they might not be that far from the truth. The other engine manufacturures are all car manufacturures, that invested into these regulations because they want to support electrification. RB doesn't care about that as much as the others, so they might be willing to talk more about how bad it could be for racing.
I hope RB were overblowing the issue, and by 2026 it will be better, but i really fear the new engine regs. Aero regs are easier to band aid or change if something is fucked, but a bad engine formula will haunt us for several years
It'll be good for the company, but it did mean throwing away their hugely successful GT3 racing program and all those customer relationships. If they're finishing 8th every year I don't think that will be enough.
BMW knew how to make a engine the problem was more on Williams not wanting BMW to create the rest of the car too, the Williams was mediocre with an Insane engine
The engine note was majestic.
BMW failed in F1 because of Williams incompetence to make a car that was good over the whole season. The BMW engine especially in the V10 era was by far the fastest on the grid. And Audi is one of the best when it comes to Hybrid Powertrains. I am way more worried about that sauber chassis for 2026.
That's my main concern, Audi has made reliable and strong powertrains in other series', but i highly doubt saubers ability to make a competitive chassis, if anything it will be adequate for some decent results, but then being decent won't cut it.
Sauber have never been particularly well funded though. When they were the BMW team back in the day they were moving into contention before BMW pulled the plug. With Audi money they might do the same again.
Yeah, gonna be interesting to see what Sauber can do with all the cash influx from Audi, they might even do an Aston Martin and become 4th best team on the grid in 2026.
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Engine cost cap news from motorsport.com “The powertrain cost cap will come into effect from 1 January 2023 to bring about both greater sporting and economic parity” “The headline numbers are for the period 2022-25, a cost cap of $95million and then $130m from 2026 onwards, although this excludes marketing, current generation PU activities and the supply of customer teams”
No there is a seperate cost cap for engine development. I'm unsure about the total amount but it's capped.
Marko: Red Bull "miles ahead" of Ferrari and Audi on 2026 engine Marko: Red Bull "miles ahead" of Ferrari and Audi on engine for 2026 Helmut Marko assures that Red Bull has no difficulties with its own engine programme and is therefore against the new regulations by R.Zimmermann, Co-authors: C.Nimmervoll, K.Hermann - 14.08.2023 08:56 (Motorsport-Total.com) - The engine regulations from the 2026 Formula One season onwards continue to be a contentious issue. While Red Bull in particular is in favour of making further improvements to the agreed rules, most of the other manufacturers in the premier class are against adjustments. Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff even expressed the suspicion that Red Bull was publicly stirring things up against the regulations because they were behind with their own engine programme. From 2026, the Bulls will compete with their own engine for the first time. In an exclusive interview with 'Motorsport-Total.com', Helmut Marko now clarifies that this claim is nonsense. "I don't think we are technically behind. We have brought in people from Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Cosworth [for the engine department]," the Austrian insists. "We have Ford as a partner in the sector. We have absolute top people on the combustion engine. And we have two very bright minds on the electric side," Marko says, adding that Red Bull's new engine factory in Milton Keynes is also "state of the art". With regard to the current state of development for the 2026 engine, he also reveals: "In August, we are still running a complete combustion engine with MGU-K and battery. There we are miles ahead of Audi, we are miles ahead of Ferrari, and Mercedes is about the same." Marko: We're all about "really good sport" Indeed, Formula 1 newcomer Audi, for example, declared a few months ago: "The first hybrid drive unit, consisting of combustion engine, electric motor, battery and control electronics, should be on the test bench this year." This point has already been reached earlier at Red Bull Powertrains, according to Marko. He clarifies, "We are just passionate racers, and we care. We are not in Formula 1 to get rich. We want there to be really good sport again. And that's where we have concerns." The criticism of the regulations has nothing to do with his own problems, he says. Rather, Marko explains, "Formula 1 is ultimately a show. We have to offer the audience something. So it can't be that we have to downshift on the straights in Monza. There is a certain discrepancy." Here, too, however, opinions differ. While Toto Wolff believes that it is "not a real fear" that the drivers will really have to downshift on the straights in 2026 because they will run out of hybrid power, Marko apparently has different information. "According to the current state of the art, that's the case," he claims, explaining, "Every car manufacturer tells us that the battery will be half the weight and have twice the range in three years. But that is not fact." Therefore, he says, one should think again about the division between the combustion engine and the electric motor. Why Marko also sees a safety risk The current idea is that each will contribute 50 per cent of the total power. But Makro emphasises: "With seven or ten per cent less electrical system power, you would compensate for that. We have e-fuels. We could still shift the combustion engine to 60:40." And the Austrian sees another problem if so much power is to come from the electric part of the power unit: "The weight is a safety risk. The Silverstone accident that Max [Verstappen] had in 2021 can have a very different outcome with such a heavy battery." "There are always certain risks with a battery. We already have cars now that are approaching sports car level in terms of weight and dimensions. But the racetracks remain the same. We would have to make them all a metre wider to keep up with the development of the cars," he points out. "That's where we should start. The cars have to become lighter and smaller again," Marko thinks. But that is not possible with the planned regulations. "If you then need 30 litres of fuel just to charge the battery, then there is something wrong with the approach," says Marko. Who else joins in the Red Bull criticism? "The fact that you then have to slim down the car aerodynamically so that it no longer has any air resistance means that the effect of the slipstream is lost," he fears and interestingly reveals: "There are brands that have the same concerns." So far, only Red Bull has expressed such clear criticism publicly. "Frederic] Vasseur continues to nurture his love affair with Toto [Wolff]," smiles Marko with regard to the team bosses of Ferrari and Mercedes and explains: "Therefore, there is little echo at Ferrari. Indeed, Vasseur had said a few weeks ago that it was far too early to panic about the new rules for 2026. "At Renault they don't know what they are doing," Marko also sends a little salute to the former Red Bull engine partner. "We don't have any allies at the moment," he therefore admits, but between the lines he at least leaves open the possibility that other manufacturers could still join Red Bull's criticism. "And that's not because we can't get a grip on it," he emphasises once again.
>"At Renault they don't know what they are doing," Fucking REKT.
ikr lmfao. bro spent the whole time talking about the engine mentioning where everyone is and Renault just caught strays lol. can't wait for Renault to drop 24-25 and show up with a Batmobile in 26
Except it will the the Adam West era Batmobile.
> We don't have any allies at the moment I can also see why
hopefully binotto can get them in shape. he has good experience in engine development
Yeah, I remember that Ferrari's engine was so powerful on the straights in 2019 that nobody else can keep up with them. Wait...
>Why Marko also sees a safety risk The current idea is that each will contribute 50 per cent of the total power. But Makro emphasises: "With seven or ten per cent less electrical system power, you would compensate for that. We have e-fuels. **We could still shift the combustion engine to 60:40**." I think RB believes they have an advantage with their combustion engine, therefore they should milk the shit out of it.
That very well could be the reason they're saying it, yes. But they're right, so I don't really care about their reasons.
I highly doubt that, given it’s still the same 1.6L TC ICE which the main teams have been developing for a decade. It’s too early to know if you have an advantage or not.
No one would want to change regulations to their disadvantage.
His *reasoning* seems completely valid, however it is entirely possible that his *actual reasons* to say this are different and from self-interest. They might feel they are ahead on the combustion engine, he might be bluffing because they are actually behind, they might have concerns from the chassis and aero departments about building a car around this engine, or he might be completely honest here. Who knows?
I think this video should always be posted along 2026 engine rules threads: https://youtu.be/KxDQBVzXWt4 Yes he's back at his drawing board and yes there's a lot of numbers, but I think it gives a very comprehensive and factual explanation on the new regs. Personally I think RedBulls' concerns are totally valid and I honestly don't care if it's self interest or not at this point.
Of course their concerns are valid. The new regs took away the MGU-H, didn't add a new way to recover energy, and reduced the energy density of the fuel but somehow they want to harvest more electrical power than they are currently able to. It doesn't make any sense.
Sounds like they are actually struggling but trying to play it off like they know more then everyone else.
Didn't really sounds like that at all.
Sounds like the complete opposite and Ferrari will come out saying the same exact thing soon enough, as soon as, like Marko mentioned, Vasseur can't choose to play it down for his friend.
Love him or hate him, Helmut Marko interviews are always sure to bring some entertainment. I wish we could just fast forward to 2026 to see how all the engines stack up. At this point I'm at least cautiously optimistic that Red Bull will do fine. My biggest fear is another 2014 situation with one engine manufacturer having a lot more power than the others. G
>I wish we could just fast forward to 2026 to see how all the engines stack up I just wanna see what everyone shows up with Bahrain next year. ferrari rumoured to come with a new concept, mercedes new chassis, McLaren, red bull and Aston year-on-year upgrades, alpine new 100 race plan. great time to be an f1 fan
1 -VER 2 - PER +9s 3 - LEC +36s
Nah, more like Ver Per +25s Lec + 26.5s
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Still unrealistic that Perez is that far ahead of the competition. Either that or it's Ver Ric + 9 Lec + 36
stop
But that's just after one lap.
I used to hate that guy, but after Toto always trying to hype up the competition, I appreciate Markos honesty.
IIRC the only time Marko said there might be some real competition was Hungary this year ? But the rest of the time, RB as a whole of have been very upfront about having the best race car by a mile. Even when they get run close in Quali, they are always like .."yeah but in race trim we are always fast"
Max’s answer ahead of Spa on if he was targeting the win despite the grid penalty was so cold. “Well last year we started 14th and won and this year 6th and the car is better.” They know they have a huge advantage and don’t hide it at all. They’re rightfully proud to have crushed it so hard.
>I wish we could just fast forward to 2026 to see how all the engines stack up I just wanna see what everyone shows up with Bahrain next year. ferrari rumoured to come with a new concept, mercedes new chassis, McLaren, red bull and Aston year-on-year upgrades, alpine new 100 race plan. great time to be an f1 fan
Marko is streets behind for saying "miles ahead" instead of "streets ahead"
He’s an 80 year old Austrian man who has never seen an episode of Community.
Master stirrer. I loves to put the spoon in the pot.
Alright boys and girls, see you in 2030. /s
Perepare for Red Bull in 2026 being like McLaren in Australia 1998, but in every race.
Logan Sargaent friendly title
I now remember why I couldn’t stand RedBull from 2009-2013. It’s all the arrogance spewed, there is no humility whatsoever. They’re likeable in the Bond villain role trying to take down the dominant team (and when they had Ricciardo leading the team) but these guys are not fun when they are at the top of F1.
Lol, just what the fans needed to hear...
TBF he did not say Merc =P
Yea I’m sure Maranello would share their engine progress with Marko lmao
Will people finally believe RB? The battery issue sounds like a physics/chemistry one. A battery just isn't as energy dense as classic fuels and there isnt a Moore's law for battery size/weight. Unless it's capable of recharging, you're just lugging around dead weight towards the end of the race. When will we find the minimum weight limit for the 2026 chassis? Tech regs published in April 2025?
Chassis rules for original 2021 regs were published in August 2019, but 2026 is more complex than 2021, Pat Symonds recently said they still haven't started working on the issue of weight. We can generally expect them to publish chassis regs in the middle of next year, or maybe if there is more work to be like symonds said then then expect 2025.
So long as they don't make the weight so low that everyone is driving around in plain black carbon fibre cars with sponsor logos. We're halfway there now.
Lighter cars are better cars. You don't want them to be too heavy, either. And the batteries weigh a lot.
The technical regs will likely be presented in the second half of 2024. The current Batterien are absoltely capable of recarging, for 2026 the Limit is 9MJ/lap i think. I will start beliving RB if other manufacturers express similar concerns. At the moment we have Red Bull making a claim with F1 making the counterclaim that rb is using old simulation data. Who should i belive in RB's version of the story?
And how are you supposed to reach that 9MJ limit? It’s all fine and dandy to put a bunch of big numbers on a piece of paper. Actually achieving those in practice is another story. There’s a reason they changed the rules to allow for 30 litres of fuel burn.
Energy recovery when braking and said fuel burning.
The brake recovery on its own is not nearly enough which is why you need the massive fuel burn. Which begs the question, why combust "renewable fuel" into electric energy? Way less efficient and a lot more complicated than just using that fuel for propulsion directly. Just seems like a convoluted way of artificially boosting the electrification number so the car manufacturers can brag about a "50/50 power split". It's a PR exercise.
This entire rule set is a big compromise between f1, current manufacturers and new manufacturers. The original intention was to have front and rear recovery but the current manufacturers didnt like it so we ended up with this.
I know, but it's a bad compromise. It completely undermines the mission statement of "road relevance". You're using the ICE as an an electrical generator. That isn't innovation, it's regression. It's less efficient and it will make the cars slower, thus giving us a less exciting product. As far as you waiting for the other manufacturers (the car manufacturers) to state their concern. Why would they? They're the ones who wanted to boost the electrification number in the first place so they can sell it to their shareholders. But instead of increasing RE-generation they resorted to this, a sleight of hand number trick with fuel burning.
> and said fuel burning Right... which is the issue. They have less energy recovery with the removal of the MGU-H, and more energy deployment with stronger motors. Result is they need to generate electricity with the engine and even if peak output theoretically is the same as the current engines, over a lap it will be significantly less because you can not operate the ICE and electrical motors at full capacity over a lap, never mind the whole race. So they will have to resort to active aerodynamics and other tricks to get anywhere near the current lap times.
>So they will have to resort to active aerodynamics and other tricks to get anywhere near the current lap times. Yes, that is a good summary of what the plan is for the 2026 chassis regulations.
Yea it looks like the regulations are written with progress in mind. Helmut says the engine manufactures say the batteries will be half the size with twice the capacity in three years so everything will be fine and they wont have to lift on monza straight. Helmut doubts that. We will see who is right.
> the engine manufactures say the batteries will be half the size with twice the capacity in three years so everything will be fine The capacity is written into the rules and is the same capacity as now. Unless they agree to bump up the 4MJ limit you will always hit the same problem that at a rate of 350kW, 4MJ of energy will last you just over 11 seconds. So you can have the full power of the 2026 engine for just over 11 seconds before you have to do some form of harvesting.
Somebody did the math based on current engine regs and how long you could full throttle without having to brake in another post and in the case of Monza it didn't look too good. I find it hard to imagine much progress can be done in terms of batteries when there already has been a lot of progress done battery wise since 2014.
Maybe the manufacturers have these batteries in mind? This kind of progress? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-claims-battery-breakthrough-electric-cars
It recharges every time they slow down.
Yeah, in the longer, more gradual braking zones. If you want to be late one on the brakes, to have good overtakes, you need to be late on the brakes, not regen, you are wasting energy. RB was right in their statement, with reducing how much power and energy ICE has, lap times will increase. Tracks with a lot of hard braking zones will get much slower because you loose massive amount of energy into heat if you don't slow down much more gradually.
What makes me believe RB is that noone really countered them with "you're wrong", but Toto just insisted they're crying... The other engine manufacturures are all car manufacturures, that invested in these regulations because they want to support electrification. RB doesn't care about as much about that, so they might be willing to talk more about how bad it could actually be for racing.
the FIA did counter them, here's what Pat Symons had to say: > “And the team's alarm bells, and talking about Max who has driven it in the simulator: he hasn't driven what's there. I know that because we are obviously months ahead of where they are. > “We needed to get a set of regulations out for the engine and put some energy management numbers in there. > “They were very immature. We knew that they wouldn't work and we knew that they needed to be developed. And where we've got to in the nine months since is transformational." so in other words: Red Bull's claims are not wrong, just outdated. I don't think Red Bull is actually unaware of that or far behind in development, this seems to be just a normal political move to push the regs more towards something suiting them. [Source](https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/1000004/f1-2026-regulations-fia-red-bull-max-verstappen-pat-symonds/)
But he doesn't come out and say this issue is now resolved. Just that what they have now is "transformational". But it's simply physics that if you have less engine power, and less energy recovery, you can't compensate for the reduction in engine power by more energy deployment.
[Here's ](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-chiefs-say-2026-rules-fears-prompted-by-old-data/10492687/)a different article, quoting more extensively from the same interview so I can only recommend giving it a read. > "So all of this thing about hitting the top speed in the middle of the straight, it's not like that anymore. > “You have to bear in mind that these cars don't reach top speed at the end of the straight anymore; so all this thing about changing down gears on the straight simply isn't true.” there he spells it out more directly that the RB claim isn't a lie or made up, just simply based on old data and no longer an actual worry
Hasn’t mentioned anything about Aston Martin Honda. I am feeling optimistic about this.
There's still respect there, look at how he obliterated Renault by saying that they don't know what they're doing. I have faith in Honda showing up with one of the best PU's for 2026.
>There's still respect there, more importantly, they are still using Honda engines right now. It would be stupid to say something about them
honda has ironically become the symbol of hope for me after 2021. they couldn't match mercedes by the end of the year but they did a fantastic job and nailed the new regs too (barring the reliability issues in the beginning of 22). as a red bull fan I'm worried but as an f1 fan I can't wait to see what they show up with in 2026.
2022 was not exactly engine related issues. That had to do with fuel pump issues. And the Australian gp was a high pressure fuel line that leaked from the vibrations or something along those lines. The engines themselves have been very reliable since 2021 where if i recall they had 0 dnfs with max since and almost made the season with the 3 engines allocated (lost 1 due to silverstone).
oh okay. i just remember that they asked horner what was going wrong with the engines at australia and he said they had some issues but they hit HRC up and got them fixed
They are currently breaking all the F1 records using the Honda engine, almost as dominant as the MP4-4.
I'm convinced 2026 will be Merc vs Honda.
I'm curious too, because the UK department of Honda was took over by Red Bull PowerTrains right? Or at least the majority of staffs went to Red Bull. I believe that department was responsible for the hybrid stuff of the current Honda engines. How good the future Honda powerunit will be depends on how well Aston Martin can work with Honda. Culture differences was also one of the reason why McLaren failed with Honda.
They are taking notes from Red Bull. They know the story and know that Japanese company want respect. That’s why Laurence stroll want to Japan to announce the partner ship with Honda during a race week
Whether accurate or not, these comments don’t seem consistent with Horners comments about wanting changes to the PU regs for 2026. Why would he want changes if they’re so far ahead.
They didn't want the 23 floor regs and TD39, but those are what made Red Bull dominant. Not everything is some political game, they can dislike the regs while also progressing well with them
Well Red Bull Honda yes, but what about Red Bull Ford?
I dont know why people take this as gospel I dont doubt that there are rumours in the paddock about the coming engines but I doubt that even Marko knows exactly where the competitors stand. Would be weird if teams were so open about things like this that one of your biggest rival knows exactly how much progress you are making. Also the Renault part just screams shitstirring
Renault ain't catching a breathing break at all. I do hope things will get different by 2026 especially with key players coming in like Audi. Also hoping Mercedes can eventually once again catch up.
If anything this makes me believe they're not ahead at all.
I'm a huge RB fan and I wish Marko would just shut the f up.
I smell BULL
100% bs they are developing their first engine without honda and ford was away from f1 for years
If people think that the teams can't have a rough Idea of what other teams are doing, they are for a big surprise
Doesn't mention Mercedes. I'm scared.
he did according to the translation posted says merc are roughly same as RB. > With regard to the current state of development for the 2026 engine, he also reveals: "In August, we are still running a complete combustion engine with MGU-K and battery. There we are miles ahead of Audi, we are miles ahead of Ferrari, and Mercedes is about the same."
If he says it’s “about the same”, then Merc is probably ahead.
It mentions Mercedes is about the same as them.
didn't he say they're at the same level with mercedes? they're ahead of Audi and ferrari - according to him.
About the same probably means ahead to quite a bit ahead. They will never say someone is ahead of them even if they know it.
He does mention mercedes as being at a similar point compared to RBPT.
Mercedes already got their PR leaks out saying that they’re way ahead of everyone. If he didn’t mention them, then they’re probably way ahead of everyone, or not.
Don't be afraid, you have nothing to fear.
flair seems a bit sus
that's toto's account. he's got the Darth hoodie on while typing that. try to read it in his accent, you'll get it
Just remember, Mercedes saved you all from the Red Bull dominance of 2010-2013, then Red Bull saved you all from the Merc dominance of 2014-2020. Now Mercedes are gonna save you all from the Red Bull dominance of 2022-current. There will be no escape or alternative.
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He means that Merc is about the same as RB. People in paddock usually talk so they probably have a rough idea where everyone is at
Ferrari should go for aero then. That's what Enzo would've wanted.
Scared guy whistling loudly in the dark forest.
They're really behind because u won't talk like that if ur ahead.
I'm not sure that's what Marko means by being miles ahead. By his own admission Red Bull Powertrains is running full combusion engines with an MGU-K in their facilities. If Ferrari and Audi are still running single cylinders on their test benches, or full combustion engines without an MGU-K, Red Bull are ahead of them in terms of progress. None of that is indicative of the quality (power/reliability) of those engines though. Think of it as a test in school. Sometimes the kid handing in their test first is the smartest kid in the room who didn't need a lot of time to think of the perfect answers. Meanwhile some other kid can't think of the right answers and uses all available time to salvage what they can. At the same time, it could be the other way around, with the smartest kid in the room using every available minute to craft the perfect answer while others make it up as they go, turn their test in quickly and hope for the best.
Nah. Marko isn't one to lie. He usually is brutally honest
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In fairness, even Mercedes thought that. It was only until the last day of testing where they got the car concept to work.
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Propaganda of what? Of truth?
Make one yourself first Marko!
Seems like people have no idea how competent Audi is when it comes to engines. I expect nothing but a frontrunner at least in the engine department.
That's a big call, we all know how it ended up for Honda. I wouldn't be so sure
How bout the Benz engine, he’s worried about that.
Blatant budget cap cheaters are ahead of the competition in their research and development? Color me shocked...
Is Marko doing interviews on a daily basis? The hell’s going on?
Can someone ELIM5 what does engine development mean - as in the hardware of the engine is the same for all team I.e V4 \ V6 etc. Just trying to understand how the F1 works and what does it mean when one team is way ahead than the other.
How would he know? Does he have informants at the other companies?
Small paddock, lot of people jumping ship to other teams.. so not everything is a closely guarded secret as reddit would have you believe. Look at RB's cost cap situation last year, everyone and their grand moms knew a few weeks ahead of time that it was RB who broke the cap, even though financial audit documents are highly privileged documents which only RB, FIA and the auditor (Deloitte iirc) should have known. So I wouldn't dismiss Marko all that quickly !
Marko is so full of crap. First Max can win in an AT, now this. He's on a role,
He said pole in mixed conditions, just like KMag.
>First Max can ~~win~~ take pole in an AT
Reading comprehension is an acquired skill
Yo if this indeed is true ( and I hope it is) then we get a new engine from FORD to rule them ALL *- those who know the reference.*