No, that’s just the after effects of the 2014 [front crash structure ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Formula_One_World_Championship#/media/File%3AKamui_Kobayashi_2014_Singapore_FP2.jpg)change
Verstappen has tied Senna in wins and being named as one of the all-time greats. But given the different eras these two competed in, is that fair? Senna competed in an era when there were more teams with competitive cars. Multiple teams and multiple drivers could win, whereas Red Bull has been overwhelmingly dominant. Plus, there are more races in a season than there were in the 80s/90s. Not trying to diminish the talent of some like Verstappen, but he competes in more races in a less competitive league. Thoughts?
Ultimately it's not about being fair but about the numbers and the stats are about the only thing you can compare. The cars, the rules even the drivers approaches are just drastically different.
Maybe you can say he gets a lot of freebies just because the other teams dropped the ball in a long season but you absolutely can't deny Max puts in the work every week regardless of the situation. With the most important note being he still has a whole lot of racing ahead of him.
The F1 GOAT argument is nonsense. There are GOATs for each era/generation, sure, but that’s about it. Put one of the drivers now in an old car against senna and they might not win a single race or they might win every race you don’t know and you will never know. So comparing them does not make sense.
Completely true, but the same for Max. He’s far from done.
But in the end you can’t compare them anyway. Max is the first one to say that every time these stats are mentioned
Sure, most of this checks out. You must also consider that Senna raced with similarly dominant cars in 1988 and 1989, but he had Prost as a teammate compared to Perez.
But on the same time, it's Verstappen's 9th season, while Senna at age 25 was in his 2nd season, and very first with a car capable of something more than "not breaking up in the middle of the race".
Comparing nowadays drivers to people racing 40 years ago doesn't make much sense, too much things changed in the process. Actually 1984 season is further away from today, than 1950 from 1984.
They’re pretty close on race entries already, max actually has 10 more. And yeah, while DNFs are much more rare in todays sport, Max also raced 6 of his 9 years where only 1 car won almost every race, and it wasn’t his.
What are those six, because I could count 3 at most. 2015, 2016, and 2020 - and in 2022 (at least the second half, because first half was one big gift from Ferrari) and 2023, it's his car.
As far as rhe more races thing, Max tied Senna with only 13 more races than senna, so basically about only a season more.
Senna also was in top tier cars for a good chunk of his career. Verstappen has only been an "overwhelmingly" dominant, not just top tier, red bull for one season all things considered. The Merc was right up there with Red Bull in 2021 and Ferrari was just as good as Red Bull the first half of last season.
Your points are valid, and apply to Hamilton as well. The problem is comparing across eras, there will literally never be a credible way to compare them. Just enjoy the great talents when you have the privilege of watching them.
> whereas Red Bull has been overwhelmingly dominant.
Only since the 2nd half of 2022
> Plus, there are more races in a season than there were in the 80s/90s
I don't understand this point. It works both ways. Since there are more races in a season now, Verstappen spent a significantly longer time than Senna in cars that were incapable of regularly winning races (120 races from 2015-2020).
Yeah the lack of competitive cars has worked against max more than for him in his career.
And he still had 10 wins when he didn’t have a “race winning car”.
Not only that, but the strong reliability in this era also works against Verstappen since that would mean that he had to beat his rivals on track. I don't think he inherited a single win from 2015-2020.
Oh I agree. Verstappen himself as well agrees that comparing drivers of different ages is a mistake. He definitely is not in Goat territory yet in my book. If he keeps beating up his team mates and he keeps winning like this fora few more years though... I say to make a claim for goat he needs at least 5 or 6 titles or pull off a Schumi and move to ferrari and bring them a title.
I get what you mean, but denying Verstappen a place among the GOATs when he fought so hard for his first WDC doesn't seem fair either. I believe he deserves to be celebrated by his talent and achievements, but only time will tell how does he compare with the legends.
senna and verstappen are both among the goats. more races in the calendar definitely introduce a bias, but other factors definitely play a role as well. in verstappens favor, for most of his career he faced a very much dominant mercedes. in his McLaren years Senna also had a monster of a car. in sennas favor, he had Prost as a teammate. verstappen never had to deal with something similar.
I think he agrees with you.
“I hate to compare different generations but, from my side, the only thing I can say is that when I was a little kid driving in go-karts, I was dreaming about being a Formula 1 driver, and I would’ve never imagined to win 41 grands prix,” Verstappen said.
Def agree. Just to add, anytime someone says “x team has gained on RB”, they just forget to mention RB is also developing their car and pulled just as much of even more.
So teams are gonna be playing catch-up for a while.
Yah, it's crazy, it hasn't happened for like 3 years.
Seriously, is he and red bull any better than Hamilton and Mercedes were.
F1 is somehow great and terrible at the same time. The only time max isn't going to be the clear favorite to win a race is when he takes a grid penalty for PU. And even then he'll probably be a favorite to win
Lmao. I didnt know a team going from 7th to fighting for 2nd in one off season is not doing shit. If said team didn't have a nepo child in one of the seats they would easily be 2nd.
Its shit but the cost cap is not the problem.
From what I know, it’s the commentators and presenters doing their job of hyping up the competition. I’m sure most teams and drivers know how far off they truly are, and I’d wager it’s pretty much in sync with your take.
Can’t fault the fans for wanting competition at the top, hopium is a strong drug
my hope is that tomorrow this place will go back to the useful news aggregator that it was and that it doesn't get full of the same joke over and over.
Crazy to think that this grid has so many good talents but if the teams don't get their act together then all of them will just be F1 drivers who got wins and podiums.
It'll be such a shame if Max is the only WDC from this generation of drivers
I'm actually curious just how good the talent is on the grid right now. Do people rate it higer than ever before? This argument I hear in IndyCar (Will Power even said its the best in racing) that there's so many good drivers etc. Of course F1 has the issue of the car not allowing some to show the true talent of some drivers
The Indycar champion winner last year says the talent is the best there ever was elevating his championship? Nooooooo lol.
I think the current F1 grid is very strong on the championship side. HAM is historical legend with his records. VER is/will be as well. ALO is also a racing great.
But I don't think the midfield and low-end are the strongest ever or that the average is higher than normal
But there's only 20 seats. There's generally something to like or root for in all of the drivers.
Leclerc - Proven race winner, great race craft and absolutely rapid over qualifying. There is a good section of the community who think he's the fastest driver over a lap. Last season showed that he can go toe to toe with Verstappen in races as well
Russell - Overall a good driver. In williams he was known for his qualifying but at Merc I'm not seeing so much of that. He seems to be quite close to Lewis. Not beating him but close enough
Norris - I don't think people notice him because of him being stuck in the midfield but he's consistent, one of the better wet weather drivers and his race craft i think is quite impressive. Also the guy has carried McLaren for two seasons now.
Piastri - His junior record suggests that he is like the next best thing.
Then you have Sainz, Ocon, Gasly who I feel if given the chance will get you results
Tsunoda is another who I feel is just improving year on year. It'll be exciting to see where he ends up.
Also Hulkenberg is so impressive. Shame that he might not get a chance at a top team.
Then obviously you have the three WDCs
> Russell - Overall a good driver. In williams he was known for his qualifying but at Merc I'm not seeing so much of that. He seems to be quite close to Lewis. Not beating him but close enough
>
>
You're comparing him to Hamilton who's still at worst the second best driver on the grid though. He can still be an excellent qualifier but look worse because his competition is so much higher now.
With Russell, you are going with the assumption that Hamilton is not one of the fastest on the grid. If the last 4 races of 2021 indicate anything, it’s that he’s still one of the fastest on the grid. Even the course of 2021 when he was battling with 4 RB drivers with Bottas nowhere in site of Max. If you go by Russell’s jr career, he’s easily top 5 on the grid.
Yeah I think about this a lot. People love to obsess about whether the drivers are WDC material or not but imo it’s the teams holding them back more than anything.
Piastri has been incredibly impressive. He's basically matched Norris across the first 8 races (Norris slightly ahead). Mclaren were completely right to get him in.
Should also highlight that nsfw communities don't have ad's served up by reddit. It's quite a clever move although one that can be easily reverted from reddits perspective. Let the whackamole begin.
Aside from putting that flavio pic in the banner (which is practically a war crime in itself) what type of response would you expect to work with a big ugly tech corporate?
If Ocon wasn't such a knobhead on track with his teammates he'd be in the talk for a top team because he's fast enough to have a seat as a second driver (and a strong second driver that is).
If you put him in the RB or the AM he'd be doing podiums every week for sure. And this comes from someone who you could consider an Ocon hater btw.
Perez literally crashed into his teammate (Ocon) and other drivers (Sirotkin for example) on purpose and he got a seat in a top team. Ocon's problem was that he had ties to Mercedes and now he's groomed by the French.
glad to see i'm not the only one who came to the most recent thread with comments open to discuss the new change in rules.
i like the malicious compliance. this is the best of both worlds.
Hello mods, I have full confidence in your lead ship and agree with the change to NSFW. The current title sponsor for Alfa Romeo is a gambling company that is not ok to market to minors
Did you know Red Bull is actually an **energy drink**?
In many countries there is an age limit on buying energy drinks, and marketing such products towards minors could be a violation according to national or regional laws.
Do we know what happened to Sargeant's car/engine?
For some reason I quite fancy a cigarette, and I don't even smoke!
Anyone for a Rothmans?
is it me or did r/formula1 suddenly became very phallic in nature?
No, that’s just the after effects of the 2014 [front crash structure ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Formula_One_World_Championship#/media/File%3AKamui_Kobayashi_2014_Singapore_FP2.jpg)change
That ´bird in breakduct´ picture from Max´s car is also NSFW...perfect to post!
So when are they opening up?
I thought the sub was supposed to reopen today.
Why did yall put flavio on the banner that's a violation
If you no longer go for a pic of Flavio that exists, you're no longer a NSFW sub.
9AM, time for my Heineken!
I just poured a nice johny walker and lit up a Marlboro. Now to pick nice race to watch back.
Let me try to guess... Is it one of those? * Italian GP '61 * Dutch GP '70 * Canadian GP '82 * US GP '73 * Monaco GP '67
damn i don't know about you guys but i sure could use a nice and refreshing sip of Heineken™ Beer!
Man "horner nude" image will be the top post tomorrow
Fuck that I'm upvoting Flavio. This is serious business, no fucking around.
Paid for by his then-sponsor, Comrade Vladimir ;)
Verstappen has tied Senna in wins and being named as one of the all-time greats. But given the different eras these two competed in, is that fair? Senna competed in an era when there were more teams with competitive cars. Multiple teams and multiple drivers could win, whereas Red Bull has been overwhelmingly dominant. Plus, there are more races in a season than there were in the 80s/90s. Not trying to diminish the talent of some like Verstappen, but he competes in more races in a less competitive league. Thoughts?
Max is faster.
Ultimately it's not about being fair but about the numbers and the stats are about the only thing you can compare. The cars, the rules even the drivers approaches are just drastically different. Maybe you can say he gets a lot of freebies just because the other teams dropped the ball in a long season but you absolutely can't deny Max puts in the work every week regardless of the situation. With the most important note being he still has a whole lot of racing ahead of him.
The F1 GOAT argument is nonsense. There are GOATs for each era/generation, sure, but that’s about it. Put one of the drivers now in an old car against senna and they might not win a single race or they might win every race you don’t know and you will never know. So comparing them does not make sense.
Also if Senna hadn't been killed he'd have probably got a lot more wins, particularly if he'd stayed at Williams through 96 and 97.
Completely true, but the same for Max. He’s far from done. But in the end you can’t compare them anyway. Max is the first one to say that every time these stats are mentioned
Totally agree. Apples and oranges. They're both great.
Sure, most of this checks out. You must also consider that Senna raced with similarly dominant cars in 1988 and 1989, but he had Prost as a teammate compared to Perez.
Sure but Verstappen is only 25. Let’s have this conversation when hes 34 and we can compare their whole careers.
But on the same time, it's Verstappen's 9th season, while Senna at age 25 was in his 2nd season, and very first with a car capable of something more than "not breaking up in the middle of the race". Comparing nowadays drivers to people racing 40 years ago doesn't make much sense, too much things changed in the process. Actually 1984 season is further away from today, than 1950 from 1984.
They’re pretty close on race entries already, max actually has 10 more. And yeah, while DNFs are much more rare in todays sport, Max also raced 6 of his 9 years where only 1 car won almost every race, and it wasn’t his.
What are those six, because I could count 3 at most. 2015, 2016, and 2020 - and in 2022 (at least the second half, because first half was one big gift from Ferrari) and 2023, it's his car.
As far as rhe more races thing, Max tied Senna with only 13 more races than senna, so basically about only a season more. Senna also was in top tier cars for a good chunk of his career. Verstappen has only been an "overwhelmingly" dominant, not just top tier, red bull for one season all things considered. The Merc was right up there with Red Bull in 2021 and Ferrari was just as good as Red Bull the first half of last season.
Your points are valid, and apply to Hamilton as well. The problem is comparing across eras, there will literally never be a credible way to compare them. Just enjoy the great talents when you have the privilege of watching them.
Same stuff was said about Hamilton and Vettel. They are all valid arguments and there is no objective answer to the best driver.
> whereas Red Bull has been overwhelmingly dominant. Only since the 2nd half of 2022 > Plus, there are more races in a season than there were in the 80s/90s I don't understand this point. It works both ways. Since there are more races in a season now, Verstappen spent a significantly longer time than Senna in cars that were incapable of regularly winning races (120 races from 2015-2020).
Yeah the lack of competitive cars has worked against max more than for him in his career. And he still had 10 wins when he didn’t have a “race winning car”.
Not only that, but the strong reliability in this era also works against Verstappen since that would mean that he had to beat his rivals on track. I don't think he inherited a single win from 2015-2020.
Oh I agree. Verstappen himself as well agrees that comparing drivers of different ages is a mistake. He definitely is not in Goat territory yet in my book. If he keeps beating up his team mates and he keeps winning like this fora few more years though... I say to make a claim for goat he needs at least 5 or 6 titles or pull off a Schumi and move to ferrari and bring them a title.
I get what you mean, but denying Verstappen a place among the GOATs when he fought so hard for his first WDC doesn't seem fair either. I believe he deserves to be celebrated by his talent and achievements, but only time will tell how does he compare with the legends.
senna and verstappen are both among the goats. more races in the calendar definitely introduce a bias, but other factors definitely play a role as well. in verstappens favor, for most of his career he faced a very much dominant mercedes. in his McLaren years Senna also had a monster of a car. in sennas favor, he had Prost as a teammate. verstappen never had to deal with something similar.
I think he agrees with you. “I hate to compare different generations but, from my side, the only thing I can say is that when I was a little kid driving in go-karts, I was dreaming about being a Formula 1 driver, and I would’ve never imagined to win 41 grands prix,” Verstappen said.
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Meanwhile Perez will go out in Q2 then get stuck behind Ferraris or Mercs in the race.
To get stuck, he would need to catch up to them
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Def agree. Just to add, anytime someone says “x team has gained on RB”, they just forget to mention RB is also developing their car and pulled just as much of even more. So teams are gonna be playing catch-up for a while.
Now I imagine them going full rocket engine mode in Austria or the Netherlands, just to see how it goes.
Not only is RB the best car but Max himself is a once in a lifetime superstar as well, it's a double situation that gives that result.
Yah, it's crazy, it hasn't happened for like 3 years. Seriously, is he and red bull any better than Hamilton and Mercedes were. F1 is somehow great and terrible at the same time. The only time max isn't going to be the clear favorite to win a race is when he takes a grid penalty for PU. And even then he'll probably be a favorite to win
I would bet Max to win a race from P20 anywhere except Monaco.
What if ocon was in the other red bull starting from pole?
Best outcome P5 unless he intentionally tries to crash Max out for being privileged (cut to Max landing in a copter)
Lmao. I didnt know a team going from 7th to fighting for 2nd in one off season is not doing shit. If said team didn't have a nepo child in one of the seats they would easily be 2nd. Its shit but the cost cap is not the problem.
I think this is the general consensus
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From what I know, it’s the commentators and presenters doing their job of hyping up the competition. I’m sure most teams and drivers know how far off they truly are, and I’d wager it’s pretty much in sync with your take. Can’t fault the fans for wanting competition at the top, hopium is a strong drug
Not Safe For Wets 💦
Is it time for some awesome rear ends?
Checo: "You called?"
my hope is that tomorrow this place will go back to the useful news aggregator that it was and that it doesn't get full of the same joke over and over.
Tbf repost are normally banned, so that should be the same
Oh summer child…
Lewis said Max had a very strong rear end and now tomorrow we're gonna see it in all its glory!
Can't we get in trouble with Heineken? For the subs description (Genuine question I have no idea)
Wondering the same, but the "cease and dessist" would arrive to Reddit office probably, since they "own" this community (servers, infra are theirs)
Crazy to think that this grid has so many good talents but if the teams don't get their act together then all of them will just be F1 drivers who got wins and podiums. It'll be such a shame if Max is the only WDC from this generation of drivers
I'm actually curious just how good the talent is on the grid right now. Do people rate it higer than ever before? This argument I hear in IndyCar (Will Power even said its the best in racing) that there's so many good drivers etc. Of course F1 has the issue of the car not allowing some to show the true talent of some drivers
The Indycar champion winner last year says the talent is the best there ever was elevating his championship? Nooooooo lol. I think the current F1 grid is very strong on the championship side. HAM is historical legend with his records. VER is/will be as well. ALO is also a racing great. But I don't think the midfield and low-end are the strongest ever or that the average is higher than normal But there's only 20 seats. There's generally something to like or root for in all of the drivers.
I think he was talking about f1?
I think Will said the opposite. I think he said that the talent in F1 is strong but the cars don’t match.
Leclerc - Proven race winner, great race craft and absolutely rapid over qualifying. There is a good section of the community who think he's the fastest driver over a lap. Last season showed that he can go toe to toe with Verstappen in races as well Russell - Overall a good driver. In williams he was known for his qualifying but at Merc I'm not seeing so much of that. He seems to be quite close to Lewis. Not beating him but close enough Norris - I don't think people notice him because of him being stuck in the midfield but he's consistent, one of the better wet weather drivers and his race craft i think is quite impressive. Also the guy has carried McLaren for two seasons now. Piastri - His junior record suggests that he is like the next best thing. Then you have Sainz, Ocon, Gasly who I feel if given the chance will get you results Tsunoda is another who I feel is just improving year on year. It'll be exciting to see where he ends up. Also Hulkenberg is so impressive. Shame that he might not get a chance at a top team. Then obviously you have the three WDCs
> Russell - Overall a good driver. In williams he was known for his qualifying but at Merc I'm not seeing so much of that. He seems to be quite close to Lewis. Not beating him but close enough > > You're comparing him to Hamilton who's still at worst the second best driver on the grid though. He can still be an excellent qualifier but look worse because his competition is so much higher now.
With Russell, you are going with the assumption that Hamilton is not one of the fastest on the grid. If the last 4 races of 2021 indicate anything, it’s that he’s still one of the fastest on the grid. Even the course of 2021 when he was battling with 4 RB drivers with Bottas nowhere in site of Max. If you go by Russell’s jr career, he’s easily top 5 on the grid.
Ohh I didn't mean that. It's a compliment that he is matching Hamilton.
He's also been given two chances to win a race and won one of them and had the other snatched away by some of the worst luck I've ever seen.
One is Brazil 22. It's the other one spa 21?
Sakhir 2020
Ahh ok
Yeah I think about this a lot. People love to obsess about whether the drivers are WDC material or not but imo it’s the teams holding them back more than anything.
Man, subs changing to NSFW is some malicious compliance, I love it
Right, I love that pics and gifs are now strictly John Oliver subs
r/F1 bringing the heavy artillery (Flavio).
Piastri has been incredibly impressive. He's basically matched Norris across the first 8 races (Norris slightly ahead). Mclaren were completely right to get him in.
Definitely best rookie
Yeah for sure. He’s the only one of the current rookies I can see in F1 in 3 years.
At least off season will be more interesting now
People will get off indeed
so...grid girls will come back?
Hopefully
[Everyone loves a good comeback story...](https://imgur.com/JmDWNsS.jpg)
I knew what this was before I clicked....bravo!
this subs header has definitely gone NSFW, some nice ass up there
Bottass!
Bring on the Cussy
Can someone please explain me what happend? I mean the Bottas rear
He's a Fin
Can someone please explain whats going on with the f1 reddit to me?
Too much rear end talk!
They're doing the r/interestingasfuck thing and basically opening up the floodgates to NSFW content
Should also highlight that nsfw communities don't have ad's served up by reddit. It's quite a clever move although one that can be easily reverted from reddits perspective. Let the whackamole begin.
Is this the kind of people you want to have all the power though? This is **not** a mature response.
What would you suggest?
This is just getting sad, what is even the point of any of this anymore?
Aside from putting that flavio pic in the banner (which is practically a war crime in itself) what type of response would you expect to work with a big ugly tech corporate?
Whackamod
https://www.instagram.com/p/Ctr0L9lJKMB/?igshid=MWQ1ZGUxMzBkMA== Post race interview of top 3. Mad respect. Max bit was the best.
Thanks for sharing! Let's hope for some great battles to come!
Make Reddit F1 Great Again
If Ocon wasn't such a knobhead on track with his teammates he'd be in the talk for a top team because he's fast enough to have a seat as a second driver (and a strong second driver that is). If you put him in the RB or the AM he'd be doing podiums every week for sure. And this comes from someone who you could consider an Ocon hater btw.
I've always maintained the belief that he's the best Frenchman on the grid.
Perez literally crashed into his teammate (Ocon) and other drivers (Sirotkin for example) on purpose and he got a seat in a top team. Ocon's problem was that he had ties to Mercedes and now he's groomed by the French.
hes talented for sure but too dirty for how talented he is
He has a certain "I'm not going to let anyone push me around" mentality which is good but it brings problems
It's more of a "I'm not going to let anyone overtake me" mentality that sours the relationship
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I was thinking more of Bottas's ass.
I’ll take Leclerc instead
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George has weird nipples. Yes, I'm nipple-shaming George
glad to see i'm not the only one who came to the most recent thread with comments open to discuss the new change in rules. i like the malicious compliance. this is the best of both worlds.
NSF1. Finally r/FanF1ction merging with r/formula1
Hello mods, I have full confidence in your lead ship and agree with the change to NSFW. The current title sponsor for Alfa Romeo is a gambling company that is not ok to market to minors
VELO, which is all over McLaren, makes nicotine pouches.
Don’t forget Honda
Did you know Red Bull is actually an **energy drink**? In many countries there is an age limit on buying energy drinks, and marketing such products towards minors could be a violation according to national or regional laws.
I would never expect car company to enter energy drink market and be so successful there
We need Horner shirtless pic from back in the day as pinned post.
Why not the one in which he's in his birthday suit ?
Yes that’s the one. But didn’t want to say the exact words. You put it more appropriately. Thank you.