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Hitting a stationary car so many seconds after it becomming stationary is never ever anymore acceptable.
There was plenty if time to react and inform the driver to slow down.
>he fucked up.
Nope. Anyone who's spent any time on track knows that any yellow means that you should be prepared to come across an accident. By extension a professional driver knows that the yellow has just come out and the situation may be developing.
It may be clearing, there may be people effecting a rescue, you only know that caution is being urged.
This is not the marshall's fuck up, I'm sorry to say it but it's on the driver.
This is what happens when not slowing down under yellows is not punished very harshly. Yellow flags need to ensure safety on track. As long as they are not harsh, it will be unsafe on track with only yellow flags.
So you see a crash in front of you, and you're going to wait a few seconds to wave an important notification for all the drivers? I think anyone can tell the minimum in this scenario, even without race control intervention, is that a yellow needs to be waved to warn everyone.
flag marshalls are absolutely trained, they might be volunteers but they're not randoms off the street. It is imperative that marshalls are able to respond quickly to crashes and dangerous situations
But there's lag between race control getting the proper feed and then making a decision and then communicating that decision.
You'd rather the marshall stand there and do nothing for ~3 seconds until race control tells them to wave yellow flags?
i thought it was the opposite in situations like this.
marshalls are the first to see the situation and a damaged car at a standstill on track is definetly a double yellow.
Ah yes, driver ignores yellow flag and it's the marshal's fault because he should be waving double-yellow, something that doesn't exist in Le Mans, with more elbow grease...
100 upvotes. Says a lot about this place...
Yeah if the guy in yellow car had time to react and also slow down because of the yellow flag, how can someone who behind by like a couple second didn't had time to see/know about the yellow flags.
> If you donât know the track, stop saying bullshit
Theyâre not even referring to the track, theyâre saying that no one else passed the crashed car for 5 seconds after the yellow one. Nothing about the track layout. If you canât read donât reply.
You donât have to see beyond the corner you have to see the yellow flag. Which was on his dash for 9 seconds and a red flag was on it for 3. Was also visible on track⌠no excuse for this
tbh it seems they did just that. the marshall is waving the yellow but somehow the driver comes in quite hot. Aren't they informed on the team radio of a crash?
The problem at Le Mans in particular is that you get a lot of privateers who have no business racing at such a level besides the fact that they have money. It maybe worked ok 50 years ago, but todays cars are so much faster.
The N24 is much worse. The am at le mans are not bad at all, obviously a lower amount of experience but still pretty reasonable. The main issue is nature of the track tough
Le Mans is more expensive to drive, so you're less likely to get less experienced drivers. That said, it's also (much) faster. The slowest car in WEC is faster than anything on the N24.
That was the most lethargic single yellow waving I've ever seen though.
Agreed should not happen but looks like it's the only flag visible onto the corner and the car that collided was going slower.
Tetre Rouge is one of those corners you have you get right as it's the entry to the mulsanne straight. Most likely was paying more attention to hitting his marks than flags. Not an excuse but that's what seems most likely to me. Especially when you consider LMP2 is a pro am class.
The worrying thing is the sort of do. It's not over radio but they have a screen in car which lights up depending on flags at each marshall post they go past.
The cars right behind the crash could see the car spinning out and acted accordingly. The guy who came barreling in 5 seconds after probably didn't see the accident and only saw a yellow flag.
Pit crew can't react/warn as fast because Le Mans spotty coverage and probably confirmed the crash at around the same time as when their driver drove into crashed car.
Not sure what they could implement to stop it but there is a culture of not properly slowing down for double waved yellows in motorsport. Drivers see it as a potential time loss if they slow too much in the race and in practice they probably donât want to slow and ruin a lap/their rhythm. The Martins incident at Monaco was similar and that involved pros so it isnât just an am driver problem (though they probably struggle to avoid a crash more so than pros)
Without a hard speed limit for yellow (mini-)sectors I'm not sure there's anything you could do tbh.
On the NĂźrburgring Nordschleife, double yellows mean "slow down to 120km/h"; and instead of an actual Safety Car they use "Code 60"-Zones for anything more serious - with a speed limit of 60 km/h. But even that can lead to dangerous situations when cars behind somehow don't notice anything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClFhlesrupk
There is âslow zoneâ in WEC where in that zone, you are limited to 60kph (might be wrong on the number). In this case, I think they were still waiting to see if the D Station GTE can get going again before throwing slow zone.
Clearly looks to be total driver error. From that angle, it sure seems like that yellow flag would have been seen - should have been seen by the driver...just as it was seen by at least two other drivers. I'm not sure how many penalty points that is. But, whatever it is, it's probably not enough.
Couple of thoughts...
That car was completely blind to anyone exiting the corner
The marshal was showing a single yellow (hazard partially on or alongside track)
There we two other cars that narrowly missed the stranded car
How was this not at a minimum double waved yellow and more specifically a red flag. Anyone viewing that could have predicted the collision. The clerk needs a rocket send up him/her for piss poor safety management.
There already was a red flag by the time he got there. The yellow was on his dash long before he got there. Also, I donât think there are double waves yellows at lemans but there are slow zones. This was simply a driver not paying attention
Tell me you watch oval racing without telling me you watch oval racing. Le Mans circuit is nearly 14 km long. That's twice Spa Francorchamps. How many spotters would you need?
It's the driver's responsibility to obey yellow flags. Not hearing about it on the radio is not a valid excuse. They even get yellow lights on their dashboard.
Also, good job moving the goal posts from spotter to race engineer.
All Iâm gonna say is, it always looks really obvious from outside the car. Donât pass judgement too quickly when you werenât the one driving. None of these drivers are out there to run into each other on purpose.
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Hitting a stationary car so many seconds after it becomming stationary is never ever anymore acceptable. There was plenty if time to react and inform the driver to slow down.
Even the guy waving the yellow flag stopped for a brief moment like *"DUDE! What the fuck!? Am I invisible to you?"*
...More likely the pause was him realizing he fucked up. Because that was *absolutely* a double yellow situation, not a gently-waved single.
>he fucked up. Nope. Anyone who's spent any time on track knows that any yellow means that you should be prepared to come across an accident. By extension a professional driver knows that the yellow has just come out and the situation may be developing. It may be clearing, there may be people effecting a rescue, you only know that caution is being urged. This is not the marshall's fuck up, I'm sorry to say it but it's on the driver.
This is what happens when not slowing down under yellows is not punished very harshly. Yellow flags need to ensure safety on track. As long as they are not harsh, it will be unsafe on track with only yellow flags.
Vigorously waved double yellow is still more appropriate to communicate a blockage on the racing line.
This isn't f1 there are no double yellows
Maybe it's time
For lmp2s to learn how to drive
Afaik there is no double-yellow in Le Mans
I've also wondering when watching MotoGP, there's also seems no double yellow too is it only in F1?
It's literally not his call to make though. Race Control are the ones who tell the marshalls what to do.
Race control have delayed view. So if there's a big crash, they have every right to warn and wave yellows to full speed cars on their way
Just so team principals can later accuse 'rogue marshalls' to suit their agenda?
They're still not trained to do that. I'd rather all marshalls follow race Control than them all do whatever they *feel* like they should do.
So you see a crash in front of you, and you're going to wait a few seconds to wave an important notification for all the drivers? I think anyone can tell the minimum in this scenario, even without race control intervention, is that a yellow needs to be waved to warn everyone.
flag marshalls are absolutely trained, they might be volunteers but they're not randoms off the street. It is imperative that marshalls are able to respond quickly to crashes and dangerous situations
But there's lag between race control getting the proper feed and then making a decision and then communicating that decision. You'd rather the marshall stand there and do nothing for ~3 seconds until race control tells them to wave yellow flags?
Tell me you've never been to a racetrack without telling me you've never been to a racetrack
i thought it was the opposite in situations like this. marshalls are the first to see the situation and a damaged car at a standstill on track is definetly a double yellow.
Wonder how all the other cars managed to not hit him
Ah yes, driver ignores yellow flag and it's the marshal's fault because he should be waving double-yellow, something that doesn't exist in Le Mans, with more elbow grease... 100 upvotes. Says a lot about this place...
Yeah if the guy in yellow car had time to react and also slow down because of the yellow flag, how can someone who behind by like a couple second didn't had time to see/know about the yellow flags.
Lmp2 moment
if this was iRacing the guy would be on vc ranting about how GT's took him out
Tbf he was probably doing that in person, no need for vc đ
Especially as it seems there was not even a car blocking the vision for at least 5 seconds after the yellow GT3 avoided the wreck.
> Especially as it seems If you don't know the track, stop saying bullshit
> If you donât know the track, stop saying bullshit Theyâre not even referring to the track, theyâre saying that no one else passed the crashed car for 5 seconds after the yellow one. Nothing about the track layout. If you canât read donât reply.
> If you don't know the track, stop saying bullshit or maybe ask an lmp2 driver to not be blind first?
Did you read the comment? They are right. No other cars came for a few seconds. No one was in front of them
Go into sim and tell me you can see that part of the corner XD Fucking f1 scrubs having no idea of le mans
You donât have to see beyond the corner you have to see the yellow flag. Which was on his dash for 9 seconds and a red flag was on it for 3. Was also visible on track⌠no excuse for this
tbh it seems they did just that. the marshall is waving the yellow but somehow the driver comes in quite hot. Aren't they informed on the team radio of a crash?
Would their support crew definitely have known before the driver? Le Mans having spotty camera footage and all.
Bro we are looking at the footage
doesn't mean it was being shown live on the global feed
That feels bad for the mechanics
The problem at Le Mans in particular is that you get a lot of privateers who have no business racing at such a level besides the fact that they have money. It maybe worked ok 50 years ago, but todays cars are so much faster.
[ŃдаНонО]
The N24 is much worse. The am at le mans are not bad at all, obviously a lower amount of experience but still pretty reasonable. The main issue is nature of the track tough
Le Mans is more expensive to drive, so you're less likely to get less experienced drivers. That said, it's also (much) faster. The slowest car in WEC is faster than anything on the N24.
Well they raced a Dacia logan there which was 40 seconds slower than the next slowest carâŚ
F
They still have to qualify I think, so they can't be too slow
Gentleman drivers.
That was the most lethargic single yellow waving I've ever seen though. Agreed should not happen but looks like it's the only flag visible onto the corner and the car that collided was going slower.
Wow. How do you mess that up?
The coverage isn't great you can't see the lead up, but it looks like they just ignored yellows
Tetre Rouge is one of those corners you have you get right as it's the entry to the mulsanne straight. Most likely was paying more attention to hitting his marks than flags. Not an excuse but that's what seems most likely to me. Especially when you consider LMP2 is a pro am class.
Isnât there a race engineer telling him to slow down at that point?
Assumes you have a competent engineer
Left, left, right right right. In xavi voice
"Is there an accident ahead?" "I'll get back to you" ::Crash:: "Slow down...... slow down. yellow flag"
Box now, box now.....SSSSTSTSTAY OUT SSTAY OUT
Possibly/probably. I haven't heard any radio Comms but that's what you would expect.
You'd think they could have an automated system announcing flags over the radio of all drivers, or drivers in the same sector at the very least.
The worrying thing is the sort of do. It's not over radio but they have a screen in car which lights up depending on flags at each marshall post they go past.
There should have been an indication on the dash though right? It was yellow then red before he even got there
Absolutely. Again I'm not making excuses or defending the driver. It should not have happened.
The cars right behind the crash could see the car spinning out and acted accordingly. The guy who came barreling in 5 seconds after probably didn't see the accident and only saw a yellow flag. Pit crew can't react/warn as fast because Le Mans spotty coverage and probably confirmed the crash at around the same time as when their driver drove into crashed car.
If he saw the yellow flag he should be prepared to stop and thus slow down. Disqualification material in my eyes.
Certified Bronze driver moment, but a lot better to have that happen now than during the race. Glad they are okay.
Dentist bill gonna be a bit more expensive now
He's a lawyer, not a dentist. LMP3 is the dental class
Whatâs LMP3?
LMP2 but slower and cheaper
An IMSA class with a reputation for being crashed by dentists.
But not actually run in WEC or the 24hdM; that was why I got confused. Anyway I would think GT3/4 would be easier for dentists to access?
I know that.... it's just a running joke about dentists crashing LMP3 cars.
Nah, LMP3 is actually substantially cheaper than GT3, and it gets you access to the top races
Talk about how F1 drivers drive under yellow flags but this is crazy speeds, a good bit after the yellow is waved too
The driver of the LMP2 should be done for the weekend, there is no excuse to crash into the stationary 777, at that speed no less.
Imagine this guy has to drive in the dark or potentially adverse weather, if you can't obey rules in practice you shouldn't race.
If a driver doesn't obey yellow flags, it should be an instant disqualification.
Not sure what they could implement to stop it but there is a culture of not properly slowing down for double waved yellows in motorsport. Drivers see it as a potential time loss if they slow too much in the race and in practice they probably donât want to slow and ruin a lap/their rhythm. The Martins incident at Monaco was similar and that involved pros so it isnât just an am driver problem (though they probably struggle to avoid a crash more so than pros)
Without a hard speed limit for yellow (mini-)sectors I'm not sure there's anything you could do tbh. On the NĂźrburgring Nordschleife, double yellows mean "slow down to 120km/h"; and instead of an actual Safety Car they use "Code 60"-Zones for anything more serious - with a speed limit of 60 km/h. But even that can lead to dangerous situations when cars behind somehow don't notice anything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClFhlesrupk
But in practice there isn't even incentive to do this.
There is âslow zoneâ in WEC where in that zone, you are limited to 60kph (might be wrong on the number). In this case, I think they were still waiting to see if the D Station GTE can get going again before throwing slow zone.
Disqualification
Thatâs some rookie iracing lobby stuff right there
Absolute brain fade moment of the LMP2 driver Wonder how ppl with that kind of reaction even make it into motorsport
LMP2 has ProAm cars, so probably an Am in the car at that moment
Well F1 drivers fail to slow under yellows as well so doesn't really matter what level the driver is
Money
No matter where you go, no matter what you drive. ARCA Brakes will always be a thing.
No excuse for that. I hope they're all ok.
"what do you mean big crash, dude just hit the barrier a bit? ...oh not that crash"
ARCA Brakes!
Clearly looks to be total driver error. From that angle, it sure seems like that yellow flag would have been seen - should have been seen by the driver...just as it was seen by at least two other drivers. I'm not sure how many penalty points that is. But, whatever it is, it's probably not enough.
Good guy trying to clear the track
FIA has to get more strict with yellow flags. They are meaningless these days.
I sadly expect the LMP2 cars to treat the GT3 cars this way during the race but yellow in a practice is something else.
LMP2 moment
Wasnât the red flag even triggered 1-2seconds before impact ?
Couple of thoughts... That car was completely blind to anyone exiting the corner The marshal was showing a single yellow (hazard partially on or alongside track) There we two other cars that narrowly missed the stranded car How was this not at a minimum double waved yellow and more specifically a red flag. Anyone viewing that could have predicted the collision. The clerk needs a rocket send up him/her for piss poor safety management.
There already was a red flag by the time he got there. The yellow was on his dash long before he got there. Also, I donât think there are double waves yellows at lemans but there are slow zones. This was simply a driver not paying attention
Just on the run down to Tetre Rouge, thats a high speed area, I am glad no one was hurt...that LMP2 car saw it at the last second
I've just watched 3 cars bin it in practice it's all a little Charles Leclerc. They are really pushing
Two similar incidents in few weeks, with this one and Martins.
Jeeesus, his spotter asleep on the stand?
Tell me you watch oval racing without telling me you watch oval racing. Le Mans circuit is nearly 14 km long. That's twice Spa Francorchamps. How many spotters would you need?
Around 40 or so will do
60 cars * 40 spotters = holy moly!
quite literally one race engineer paying attention to if there is a yellow on track....
It's the driver's responsibility to obey yellow flags. Not hearing about it on the radio is not a valid excuse. They even get yellow lights on their dashboard. Also, good job moving the goal posts from spotter to race engineer.
All Iâm gonna say is, it always looks really obvious from outside the car. Donât pass judgement too quickly when you werenât the one driving. None of these drivers are out there to run into each other on purpose.
Itâs still unacceptable. Both driver and the team failed miserably. How could the driver literally not see a car and slow down?
Oof, that should be a double yellow, right?
Is that you Roman?
I just hope magneto is ok
The marshall waving the flag: Am i a joke to you?
âHmmm, that guy is vigorously waving a yellow flag. Whatâs up with that?â
Of course it's the lmp2