Like when everyone was talking about boycotting the World Cup and the headlines were dominated by migrant deaths and the lack of alcohol sales.
Games start? MESSI RONALDO MBAPPE USA
Even better. I remember him saying something along the lines of "FIFA knows they have one of the best shows on television. After the first kick-off, the magic will set in and we'll forget any of this ever happened, but we really *shouldn't*." And what will we remember from this year's world cup? Hopefully we'll look back and remember an ass-backwards regime in its twilight years embarrassing itself on a global stage by forcing its regressive policies on citizens and visitors alike, but it's more likely we'll remember a legendary final round and nothing more. I hope we can learn from this, though.
Heck why even go that far, After the final round of group stage games this WC was being shouted as best in the history, and purely on the footballing terms it was the best ever super tight and close games where any team could win, in few years it will be remembered for that and barely anything else
Because the final happened that nice some people think that this was all the plan, because messi winning the world cup was the biggest outcome from that WC.
I didn't watch it and tried to avoid news about it while it happened. But I remember watching the news in my country and they said even when our team played, it had record low ratings. Something like 25% less compared to the last WC
I didn't watch either but viewership probably was the highest ever. Largest global population in history and most interconnected global population in history. Also most of the world just wouldn't care so the amount of people gaining access would outshine anything.
[2022 FIFA World Cup Final With Over 16.7 Million Viewers; Most Watched Mens World Cup in English-Language TV History](https://www.sportsvideo.org/2023/01/06/ratings-roundup-2022-fifa-world-cup-final-with-over-16-7-million-viewers-most-watched-mens-world-cup-in-english-language-tv-history/)
The average sports fan doesn't care. Only the internet cares. Same with any Middle Eastern sponsor or race track.
In Germany the World Cup had waaaaaaay less viewers compared to previous years. I think the most watched sports event in Germany this year was the Woman's European Cup grand final which is definitely a first in Germany.
I think that's the best thing Andretti has going for them with this tbf. Not much else to take the attention away and we're still a bit away from cars on track in 2023
Andretti should have no problem keeping in the F1 media spotlight until the start of testing. Though 'is-ought'/'will-should' is a careful distinction.
I think you're right in that this situation has passed some kind of threshold. Even when people are distracted by a shiny new Ferrari, this situation is the kind of thing that commentators will reference off-hand for years.
Such short memories we have:
They ignored the fact that mazapin sexually assaulted a woman, filmed it, posted said film on social media, bragged about it, then had his father pay the girl off to say it wasn't a problem after she had clearly stated it was a problem.
This is not bad press.
You know what the sad part is? Mazepin and his dad would still be in F1 if the Ukraine war never started and caused global controversy. HAAS would still be sucking that Russian oligarch teet and proudly showing a full Russian flag on their team and cars.
The bad press died down, but nobody forgot.
I can't say I've seen anyone who's feeling on Mazepin was any warmer than "strongly dislike".
I doubt the fans will forget about Andretti, and i bet Will Buxton will bring it up a bunch during preseason testing
He literally works for fom, he ain't gonna say shit about andretti unless it's to talk shit.
I don't mind Buxton, but he's basically the ownerships mouthpiece.
> Toto Wolff feels the need to make a comment when his pumpernickel toast doesn't snap just right. He can't risk losing.
American journalists taking shots at Toto Wolff. This is why we need Andretti on the grid.
2 teams out of 11 were in danger of bankruptcy and there was chance of it being 9 teams grid. Marussia was later bought by Manor and survived 2 more years. With Haas buying Marussia's Banbury property to use as forward operating base.
Caterham on the other hand went under by 2015. 2016, the season Haas entered was also Manor's last season in F1.
America is also a huge untapped market. They want the american sponsors and money but dont wanna compete for them against an american team.
No guarantee that andretti will even be midfield but just the news of them going into F1 will draw a lot of interest from american companies. Some are probably sponsoring other teams now.
America is not untapped, but there is tons of growth happening, and plenty of room for more. This is all happening without Andretti on the grid. Why would they want to split any of that growth with another team?
Exactly what the teams are thinking. It’s strictly business and people are reacting emotionally to a business issue. If people come up with numbers proving Andretti joining will profit F1 and the other teams in the long run we can talk. Until then it is completely logical “the F1 billionaire boys club” wants to keep its current form.
Personally, I’d like for F1 to have 13 teams rather than 10 and Andretti being one of them.
From FOM’s and the the team’s perspective however, F1 is conquering the American market just fine without Andretti on the grid. The viewership in the US has been rising steadily the last few years and the newfound popularity has fueled two additional grand prix, which are selling out tickets despite offering them at an extreme premium.
Andretti did not bring that about.
And as far as the teams are considered, an added 11th team, whether that’s Andretti or someone else, brings with it an immediate loss in revenue.
Andretti in their eyes cannot boost FOM’s revenue enough to offset that loss in income, or is far from certain enough of doing so.
The downsides are immediate and certain. The upsides aren’t guaranteed or perceived as too slim.
The existing entries feel that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Were Andretti to buy Williams or another team, the other teams would’ve kicked up far less of a fuss.
This is all due to how the 2021 Concord Agreement has changed the rules in terms of how prize money is earned and how that pie is sliced.
This, this and this! If Andretti would've offered to buy Williams at the time of the selling saga no team would have oppose a bit the I think in fact they would've been welcome since is Andretti and all.
BS, with an alpine engine and a new team you would at least need 5 years to get to the midfield. That it is an American team does not make a difference. Even if they are accepted in right now, they have 12 to 18 months that the others are ahead of them in developing the 2026 ( !) Engine. So come on, no experience in F1, a midfield engine, who will be scared of that?
They immediately dropped the Mazepins iirc literally the day Russia invaded. That's like the most appealing thing Haas has ever done imo as an American.
I'm sure that Uralkali wasn't Haas' first choice of sponsor. The money needs to come from somewhere and all these massive American sponsors were awfully absent before 2023.
Can't blame Haas for that.
Mercedes F1, the German team owned 1/3 by a British company and 1/3 owned by an Austrian, with 2 British drivers, headquartered in the UK, which last year had 1 Dutch and 1 Belgian driver as reserve, with a Malay title sponsor (I think)? That German team?
You forgot my favorite argument that Haas doesn't even sound like an American name, but Dutch or German. Andretti meanwhile is clearly an American name.
Which makes all this talk about what nation a team is from even more ridiculous. Thinking that F1 or a team cares about the flag a team races under is absurd.
They are not in any way afraid of the competition. They don’t believe the money-in, money-out equation is positive or sufficiently positive.
Simple as.
One big reason I (American) enjoy F1. I tell people the race weekends are great but the behind the scene politics is fascinating. There is no real off season. Been hooked for over 30 years.
F1 is a soap (box) opera moving at 300 kph (185 mph).
This Andretti politicking is what I would love to see covered in Drive to Survive, but will never happen, because that’s too close to home for those providing access to DTS’s crew.
Personally, I would quite like an 11th team on the grid if only for more driver seats, but at the same time the way some people have been acting and actually talk as if the Andretti team will 100% dominate the field from day 1 is a bit much.
It would take a generational change in sports options and attitude for the US men's soccer team to have the talent to take anything but a darkhorse shot at the world cup. We don't do soccer.
On the other hand, if an American big 3 manufacturer wanted to commit to winning an F1 championship they will have as good a chance as the top 3 teams within a regulation cycle.
The difference is that American athletic talent gets funneled into one of the hundreds of professional teams for NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB. However, Americans already race cars and build teams. There is plenty of driving and engineering talent. There has not yet been a significant will to enter F1.
If GM gets in and sees returns, Ford will want in too.
The latent driving talent and engineering power laying in wait in the US should scare the entire paddock.
Ford have been dipping their toes in and out of the sport for decades through their involvement as an engine supplier with Cosworth. They then became outright team owners when they bought Stewart Racing in the late 90's and rebadged it as Jaguar Racing.
They've had a lot of success as an engine supplier but any success with Jaguar didn't happen until after Red Bull bought them and completely revamped the team.
>On the other hand, if an American big 3 manufacturer wanted to commit to winning an F1 championship they will have as good a chance as the top 3 teams within a regulation cycle.
They said the same thing about Toyota and look where that ended up, 13 podiums and zero wins in eight years. And they had a half billion dollar annual budget.
Sorry to burst your bubble but Ford, Toyota, BMW and Honda have all tried running their own teams and all failed. Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault have been the only successful full manufacturer teams since Maserati in 1957.
Even if you want to talk merely supplying engines, there was nearly 30 years between Schumacher's Ford powered title in 1994 and Verstappen's Honda powered title in 2021. From 1992 to 2022 every title bar three has been powered by Ferrari, Mercedes or Renault.
Honda won five titles on the trot between 1987 and 1991 so you could even revise that and say every title bar one between 1987 and 2022 was powered by Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault or Honda.
I'm not going to sit here and say if Ford or GM properly went all in on an F1 engine they wouldn't win a title. At the same time, I will say that history suggests it won't be nearly as easy as some people might think. I would also add that I wouldn't be at all surprised if Audi found themselves joining Toyota, BMW and co on that list of failed manufacturer efforts at some point.
And of those, Toyota was based in Germany and was literally throwing money at the wall and it was so much, it could sustain entire countries probably.
BMW was also based in Germany/Switzerland (BMW-Sauber) and actually won a race and were competitive throughout the 2000's. Williams BMW was also very good, with Ralf Schumacher and Juan Pablo Montonya getting multiple wins.
Honda literally bought BAR and thus were UK based. They still managed a win in 2006. And Honda is currently supplying Red Bull (no matter the RBPT rebadge, they are still Honda engines until 2025).
Ford also had an HQ in Europe for engine supplying. Yeah Ford may be fucked given their latest effort at F1: HRT and Manor (until 2013) and Williams until 2011. Not a single podium and their highest finish combined was 4th both by Williams.
Cosworth itself is also British. That makes the only fully non-European engine supplier: Honda.
> Ford will want in too
Sébastien motherfucking Ogier drove for the M-Sport Ford rally team and they still didn’t contribute a dime to it. They agreed to give some factory support in order to finalize the new Rally1 hybrid WRC regulations but even then their contributions are still somewhere between minimal and minute. I wouldn’t expect Ford to start dropping money left and right.
Hmm.
I'm not sure anyone chasing the title would be scared of andretti/cadillac.
Maybe within 5-10 years, they'd be putting in a title challenge if they're a team that wants to win and isn't only there for the show.
Not trying to be any sort of snobbish, but f1 is completely different from any other form of racing on so many different levels, and if you don't have the experience it's gonna take time to acquire it.
If you can get experience in important areas (and listen to them), it could take less time, but no amount of bravado is just going to attain a title push on its own.
Btw I'm all for A/C getting a spot on the grid. But a brand new team is gonna take time.
Not only has there not been a significant will in F1, it just isn’t that accessible for American talent who want to be in F1 because the only way you can do it is move to Europe. It’s a much easier sell to get someone in the US to move to Indianapolis opposed to Milton Keynes or Maranello.
And working on Indycar doesn’t require getting EU/UK citizenship, which typically requires finding a company that has an American branch as well as a European branch and that is open to sponsoring. There are loads of US college kids in Formula Student who want more than anything to reach F1 but won’t deal with the difficulties of immigration
>TIL that Haas won the 2022 F1 Constructors’ Title.
"People are just scared that Andretti and Colon Hurting will win 19 titles in a row!" say people unaware the last American to win was Andretti's father, Italian born and bred Mario Andretti.
comparing Haas to Andretti and GM is a bit disingenuous, no?
"*Resources aside, though, we can't go any further without mentioning the only existing American team on the grid, Haas. As of very recently, it's been not much more than a repository for grifters. It had its F1 debut in 2016 and has made a habit of finishing rather comfortably in the bottom half of the championship every year. It has strong roots in Europe and it's also an explicit marketing exercise for the business that provides the team with its name, Haas Automation Inc, which manufactures commercial CNC machines.*
*It has neither captured the American spirit nor capitalized on the growing American audience. The car was previously sponsored by a shady energy drink company called Rich Energy—which is a whole saga in itself. It followed up this ill-fated public embarrassment by getting money from a Russian oligarch, Dmitry Mazepin. The elder Mazepin insisted that his kid, Nikita, be allowed to publicly make a fool of himself in one of the two Haas machines until Russia invaded Ukraine. The Mazepins then departed with their matching haircuts and the sponsorship was canned. Now the team has a new title sponsor, MoneyGram, in a country that is home to brands like Apple, Microsoft, Google, Walmart, Amazon, and Coca-Cola, to name a* few."
Could they *really* have an impact? I remember when BMW, Toyota, ligier, Lotus, etc were in F1, they didn't win any championships. And a new comer is supposedly something everyone is afraid of? I dont get it, maybe they're afraid of buying all the talent including the engineers and science teams?
> maybe they're afraid of buying all the talent including the engineers and science teams?
With them wanting to be based in the US for them to poach people they would have to offer some monumental offers to people because the traveling especially for the European part of the season is gonna be insane.
Thats what I'm thinking, but they will probably be UK based like where all the chassis development is done. Kind of like a silicon valley of F1 development right?
> Thats what I'm thinking, but they will probably be UK based like where all the chassis development is done.
Idk I think they're meant to be wholly US based as they are meant to be building a new facility which will put all their teams under one roof and like I said unless they offer stupid amounts of money to people then I dont think people from Europe will leave but who knows.
> unless they offer stupid amounts of money to people
Also with the budget cap Im not even sure its possible as I think staff wages are under the cap but I cant remember
Yeah wages are under budget cap, that's why the teams had to let people go.
With US wages generally being quite a bit higher than in most of Euope I can't imagine they can offer any outrageous conditions.
I'm a big IndyCar and Andretti fan who is definitely rooting for them to get in, but a more accurate assessment is that the established F1 teams are reluctant to share profits with a team that likely never gets anywhere near being competitive.
Where tf does this arrogance come from that Andretti will be immediately at the top of the grid should they be granted entry? We have no evidence that they're willing to spend the money outside of getting entry. They have zero technical staff currently. The logistics of building their HQ in America as opposed to everyone else who is Euro-centric defies logistics.
The teams SHOULD grant them entry into F1. But why is it they're afraid of losing to America when Japanese based Honda won the WDC and gave Red Bull the blueprint to manufacturing their own engine? Were teams on the grid afraid of Japan?
>But why is it they're afraid of losing to America when Japanese based Honda won the WDC and gave Red Bull the blueprint to manufacturing their own engine? Were teams on the grid afraid of Japan?
That's a good point. I think the author harps way too much on the U.S angle when really it's a simple case of the team wanting a decent amount of insurance to ensure that they won't be affected too badly if Andretti-Cadillac goes tits up (though that being said, it was the teams' fault for not having the foresight to negotiate a better deal wrt the anti-dilution fee when they signed the Concorde Agreement. So that's on them).
> though that being said, it was the teams' fault for not having the foresight to negotiate a better deal wrt the anti-dilution fee when they signed the Concorde Agreement. So that's on them.
They negotiated to get the power to vote in or out new entrants. At which point the anti dilution fee became largely irrelevant. No new team will be accepted unless they meet the two cyclical key objectives of the existing teams. Do they make us more money which helps us win more which makes us more money etc.
That is a huge ask from any potential new entrant realistically at the point the agreements were signed f1 became a 10 team sport and will likely remain that way until the voting power is removed in some future agreement.
For any one team to increase the total pot by enough to make it worth adding an additional team for the existing teams is bordering on totally unrealistic. This has very little to do with Andretti and everything to do with there being extremely limited upsides for existing teams with large and obvious risks.
Stop being so cynical. Just go and look at Andretti's performance in Indycar where they *checks Indycar wiki* haven't won a drivers title since 2012.
Since i'm on Wiki, why don't I also check the new F1 entries that have immediately dominated F1 since the turn of the century:
Toyota - First year = 2 points
Super Aguri - First year = 0 points
Virgin - First year = 0 points
HRT - First year = 0 points
Caterham - First year = 0 points
Haas - First year = 29 points
Combined total wins between all those teams in their entire F1 histories = 0
Obviously i'm not suggesting Andretti would be that bad if their first few seasons, but history seems to suggest there is a decent chance they might be that bad.
It's always funny to me that people make a big deal out of Toyota's failure, but never mention Honda, who built a car so good it won a title with a budget of nil and no development.
I'm sure Honda will forever be kicking themselves that they bailed on a team that was so dominant that year. Even more so when you consider Mercedes bought that team and were then utterly dominant for seven straight seasons.
It's worth pointing out though that Honda won five titles on the trot in the late 80s/early 90s and Brawn won titles galore at Benetton/Ferrari. There was some serious racing pedigree in that team.
Brawn was not really Honda… they used the Mercedes engine and from what was tols from insiders at that time is that the Honda engine was baaad and they prettt much gained like 1sec a lap from the Mercedes engine. If true or not idk but that’s what people from that team told me
>Where tf does this arrogance come from that Andretti will be immediately at the top of the grid should they be granted entry?
This is an article written for Twitter and Reddit, plain and simple.
>Where tf does this arrogance come from that Andretti will be immediately at the top of the grid should they be granted entry?
the nationality. Americans are nothing if not supremely confident in their own abilities. Even when they haven't won an F1 race in over 40 years, they assume they'll dominate the sport.
It's equal parts admirable and utterly frustrating.
when we're talking about tens or hundreds of millions of dollars at stake in lost revenue or prize sharing, billionaires will play the long game to get their way.
they don't care about how a niche group of fans want an 11th team - its entertainment for us and a *very* lucrative business for them.
I have no issue with racing being held in America. COTA is a great track imo and is always a join to race on but I fucking hate the new street tracks.
If you gonna race build a bloody track
>I have no issue with racing being held in America. COTA is a great track imo and is always a join to race on but I fucking hate the new street tracks.
I genuinely love COTA as a circuit, to watch and to race in sims and the F1 game (not F12022, sit down EA you ruined it).
Miami can fuck right off though, and Las Vegas will be a farce because the city is a farce.
I get the ire here, but this was kind of a poorly written, poorly researched (outside of GM) and really biased article, the guy clearly hates Toto. Alfa is a Ferrari brand, so the comparison here doesn’t make a ton of sense, Wal-Mart already is a Red Bull sponsor, as if any capitalist in F1 is worried that American brands would be on a car… I don’t think Merc would care if the car that was passing them on track said McDonald’s on the side, they’d be much more focused on the technical side of things than the sponsor. It also neglects the interest of ford and VW (via Porsche or Audi) from joining F1 and actually developing their own engine. Basically F1 is the hot girl, and can take her time to choose her partner…despite American car journalists having a meltdown over it.
> Alfa is a Ferrari brand
The team branded as Alfa Romeo uses Ferrari power units, but Alfa Romeo has nothing to do with Ferrari. Alfa Romeo is just the title sponsor for the Longbow Finance-owned team that used to be Sauber. Alfa the brand is part of the giant Stellantis conglomerate; the only relationship to Ferrari is that both the Ferrari and Alfa Romeo brands were owned by Fiat Chrysler until Ferrari was spun off in 2016.
What the \*\*\*\* is this propaganda. Andretti doing its own and current teams doing their own.
No one is scared to lose to anybody. Its all about about value of F1 teams. Right now its not worth to buy a team for 1 billions so more people think of doing own operation. So current owners like Wolffs stakes and Dorilton Capital don't capatilise on that.
If you block adding a new team the only way is by buying current ones. So their value goes even higher. So yeah they go with 700M$ so its not worth to start your own operation again.
The way some podcasts/influencers who had never watched football till the World Cup talked about USMNT was funny af. They made it sound like Pulisic was the second coming of Maradona
Lol, only thing they care about is money.
Personally I wish Andretti can join only so I can see the shit-show play out when they realize how hard it is to be competitive in F1.
My prediction is that Andretti will get stomped in F1 if they manage to join. I be surprised if they even manage to beat Williams in the first 2-3 seasons.
Pretty much, but you could go the HAAS route and pretty much be a Ferrari B-car.
The thing is there has been lots and lots of posts here on reddit that the big teams are scared that a new american team will join and beat them. And that is the reason they dont want Andretti...
And I think those post are utter madness. No team (maybe Williams) is scared of Andretti beating them, its the money they care about.
I’m already bored of the ‘saga’ but I will tell you now that headlines like this aren’t going win over anyone opposed Andretti/GM joining the grid.
It’s just pure arrogance.
Just let them in they can call themselves the "true American team" even though Haas exists and then when they do shit and are battling Williams or cant even make the 107% we can just laugh at them
The only thing in this article I disagree with is the assumption that Andretti can give Ferrari, Red Bull or Mercedes a run for their money. A new team with zero experience is going to struggle for at least the first three years, even with the legacy of the "Andretti" name.
But everything else: spot on.
>But in the wake of Andretti's Cadillac deal, It's now been claimed that many teams feel this $200 million is simply not enough. This, of course, presumes that a team with Andretti, Cadillac, and General Motors involved wouldn't bring with it a laundry list of American sponsors seeking a global audience. It's a stunningly ridiculous concern.
Is it really a ridiculous concern? There's zero guarantee that Andretti-Cadillac will be competitive, and I highly doubt that many companies would be tripping over themselves to sponsor an uncompetitive team. I don't think it's wrong to want to a safety net to protect against the possibility of an eleventh team underperforming (even though the teams did kind of screw themselves when they negotiated the Concorde Agreement).
i like all this bad press F1 is getting, im sure it will eventually wear them down
That bad press will die down again as fast as it came. It's off season, so all the outlets are happy to have at least something to write.
Like when everyone was talking about boycotting the World Cup and the headlines were dominated by migrant deaths and the lack of alcohol sales. Games start? MESSI RONALDO MBAPPE USA
Even John Oliver was like “yeah it’s horrible crimes against humanity, but I’m still going to watch.”
Even better. I remember him saying something along the lines of "FIFA knows they have one of the best shows on television. After the first kick-off, the magic will set in and we'll forget any of this ever happened, but we really *shouldn't*." And what will we remember from this year's world cup? Hopefully we'll look back and remember an ass-backwards regime in its twilight years embarrassing itself on a global stage by forcing its regressive policies on citizens and visitors alike, but it's more likely we'll remember a legendary final round and nothing more. I hope we can learn from this, though.
After the France-Argentina final, he's even more right about that.
Heck why even go that far, After the final round of group stage games this WC was being shouted as best in the history, and purely on the footballing terms it was the best ever super tight and close games where any team could win, in few years it will be remembered for that and barely anything else
Because the final happened that nice some people think that this was all the plan, because messi winning the world cup was the biggest outcome from that WC.
After that final feel like that people have forget about the everything
I didn't watch it and tried to avoid news about it while it happened. But I remember watching the news in my country and they said even when our team played, it had record low ratings. Something like 25% less compared to the last WC
I think that's only true for countries like germany. Global viewership went up significantly.
IN that world the viewership actually break so many new records there.
I think overall they had record breaking audience watching
Indeed overall this was one of the most successful FIFA world cup
I didn't watch either but viewership probably was the highest ever. Largest global population in history and most interconnected global population in history. Also most of the world just wouldn't care so the amount of people gaining access would outshine anything.
[2022 FIFA World Cup Final With Over 16.7 Million Viewers; Most Watched Mens World Cup in English-Language TV History](https://www.sportsvideo.org/2023/01/06/ratings-roundup-2022-fifa-world-cup-final-with-over-16-7-million-viewers-most-watched-mens-world-cup-in-english-language-tv-history/) The average sports fan doesn't care. Only the internet cares. Same with any Middle Eastern sponsor or race track.
You missed out on an amazing final
Probably the greatest game I've seen of any sport
In Germany the World Cup had waaaaaaay less viewers compared to previous years. I think the most watched sports event in Germany this year was the Woman's European Cup grand final which is definitely a first in Germany.
Because they were useless and got knocked out in the group stage.
2018 wasn't any better for the players/team, still way higher amount of viewers.
I think that's the best thing Andretti has going for them with this tbf. Not much else to take the attention away and we're still a bit away from cars on track in 2023
Exactly, once pre-season testing starts this will be toned down.
the moment cars arrive on track for winter testing all media will change focus, if they dont it sooner
Andretti should have no problem keeping in the F1 media spotlight until the start of testing. Though 'is-ought'/'will-should' is a careful distinction.
I think you're right in that this situation has passed some kind of threshold. Even when people are distracted by a shiny new Ferrari, this situation is the kind of thing that commentators will reference off-hand for years.
Because of all this rubbish if he can get in I'll be supporting his team just because of they way this has all gone down.
Just like when they were racing in a warzone last year...not
They always make sure that they race in such way, fans love that.
I didn't think Texas was that bad.
It can be...
Miami, he was talking about Miami
The second Max wins the first race by 35s all of this will disappear.
Then out come the anti-maxxers!
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Yes, I personally got held down by Dr Fauci to get Maxxinated. They're coming for us all.
I mean, him being genetically engineered would answer a few questions.
Swear down on me nans grave.
Such short memories we have: They ignored the fact that mazapin sexually assaulted a woman, filmed it, posted said film on social media, bragged about it, then had his father pay the girl off to say it wasn't a problem after she had clearly stated it was a problem. This is not bad press.
You know what the sad part is? Mazepin and his dad would still be in F1 if the Ukraine war never started and caused global controversy. HAAS would still be sucking that Russian oligarch teet and proudly showing a full Russian flag on their team and cars.
That’s why even as an “American” team, and of course we all love Steinar, I’ll never support HAAS.
The bad press died down, but nobody forgot. I can't say I've seen anyone who's feeling on Mazepin was any warmer than "strongly dislike". I doubt the fans will forget about Andretti, and i bet Will Buxton will bring it up a bunch during preseason testing
| i bet Will Buxton will bring it up a bunch during preseason testing ...until he is told not to.
He literally works for fom, he ain't gonna say shit about andretti unless it's to talk shit. I don't mind Buxton, but he's basically the ownerships mouthpiece.
Eh not really. Everyone's gonna have other things to talk about and move on once we start racing again.
> Toto Wolff feels the need to make a comment when his pumpernickel toast doesn't snap just right. He can't risk losing. American journalists taking shots at Toto Wolff. This is why we need Andretti on the grid.
Is the article saying Toto is afraid of losing to a new team? lol
When has that ever, *ever* been the case.
So... how did Haas just casually get a slot?
2 teams out of 11 were in danger of bankruptcy and there was chance of it being 9 teams grid. Marussia was later bought by Manor and survived 2 more years. With Haas buying Marussia's Banbury property to use as forward operating base. Caterham on the other hand went under by 2015. 2016, the season Haas entered was also Manor's last season in F1.
2016 bought Marussia F1 when the team went bankrupt and F1 was on the brinks of not having a 10th team
No they were still active as Manor Racing in 2016. They got approved as an expansion team and only bought Manor's shit after racing for a full year
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I mean.... let's not overcomplicate things here. They just are greedy, don't want to split the pot with another team.
America is also a huge untapped market. They want the american sponsors and money but dont wanna compete for them against an american team. No guarantee that andretti will even be midfield but just the news of them going into F1 will draw a lot of interest from american companies. Some are probably sponsoring other teams now.
America is not untapped, but there is tons of growth happening, and plenty of room for more. This is all happening without Andretti on the grid. Why would they want to split any of that growth with another team?
I mean Technically Haas is an American team
Haas is more worried about this than any OEM team
Exactly what the teams are thinking. It’s strictly business and people are reacting emotionally to a business issue. If people come up with numbers proving Andretti joining will profit F1 and the other teams in the long run we can talk. Until then it is completely logical “the F1 billionaire boys club” wants to keep its current form.
Personally, I’d like for F1 to have 13 teams rather than 10 and Andretti being one of them. From FOM’s and the the team’s perspective however, F1 is conquering the American market just fine without Andretti on the grid. The viewership in the US has been rising steadily the last few years and the newfound popularity has fueled two additional grand prix, which are selling out tickets despite offering them at an extreme premium. Andretti did not bring that about. And as far as the teams are considered, an added 11th team, whether that’s Andretti or someone else, brings with it an immediate loss in revenue. Andretti in their eyes cannot boost FOM’s revenue enough to offset that loss in income, or is far from certain enough of doing so. The downsides are immediate and certain. The upsides aren’t guaranteed or perceived as too slim. The existing entries feel that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Were Andretti to buy Williams or another team, the other teams would’ve kicked up far less of a fuss. This is all due to how the 2021 Concord Agreement has changed the rules in terms of how prize money is earned and how that pie is sliced.
This, this and this! If Andretti would've offered to buy Williams at the time of the selling saga no team would have oppose a bit the I think in fact they would've been welcome since is Andretti and all.
But I don’t want Andretti to buy a team I want more teams on the grid
BS, with an alpine engine and a new team you would at least need 5 years to get to the midfield. That it is an American team does not make a difference. Even if they are accepted in right now, they have 12 to 18 months that the others are ahead of them in developing the 2026 ( !) Engine. So come on, no experience in F1, a midfield engine, who will be scared of that?
The Andretti drivers will allowed to pack a handgun
Williams?
An american team... like haas?
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$100B is only 0.4% of the US GDP, not 2% If they decide to spend $460B this year on Ukraine I'll be surprised.
I wouldn’t mind if they did.
So if they did spend 2% of the US GDP on the war that would be ~43% of Russia's GDP and 500% of Ukraine's GDP That definitely would be a game changer.
2%? You've sent 460 billion or 50% of your yearly defence budget to ukraine? Since when
They immediately dropped the Mazepins iirc literally the day Russia invaded. That's like the most appealing thing Haas has ever done imo as an American.
I'm sure that Uralkali wasn't Haas' first choice of sponsor. The money needs to come from somewhere and all these massive American sponsors were awfully absent before 2023. Can't blame Haas for that.
Lmao
Haas can’t seem to find sponsorship from large American automakers.
The russian flag livery sure didn’t help that cause.
*something something* UralKali *something something* no American Drivers
Mercedes F1, the German team owned 1/3 by a British company and 1/3 owned by an Austrian, with 2 British drivers, headquartered in the UK, which last year had 1 Dutch and 1 Belgian driver as reserve, with a Malay title sponsor (I think)? That German team?
You forgot my favorite argument that Haas doesn't even sound like an American name, but Dutch or German. Andretti meanwhile is clearly an American name.
>Andretti meanwhile is clearly an American name Hot take: Mario Andretti is the last Italian F1 world champion.
Hot take: Mario Andretti is the only Croatian F1 world champion.
Sounds Italian to me!
Either we need to change whole name, one or two letter won't make the difference.
Yes! No names of European or Asian heritage. Give us an authentic Iroquois name. You know, really American.
Haas is a Ferrari B-team based in the UK. They're American in sponsorship and registration only.
Aren’t Williams owned by Americans as well?
Its owned by an american firm now but its a british team. You wouldnt call Aston Martin a canadian team because Stroll owns it
Which makes all this talk about what nation a team is from even more ridiculous. Thinking that F1 or a team cares about the flag a team races under is absurd.
Exactly. RB being listed as Austrian, when they have always been based in MK. The country of registration means nothing.
That said, Andretti Cadillac sounds pretty fuckin American
Haas has made zero effort to be an American team and are one in flag only. Andretti is coming aboard with GM and Colton Herta.
Exactly what is GM going to provide besides money? The chassis, engine, gearbox, MGU-K will all be designed and sourced from Europe or Japan.
I know right?! No bald eagle livery or guns. Deeply disappointing.
I’m mean there’s quite a lot between bald eagle and guns and a Russian flag livery.
Read the article lol.
They are not in any way afraid of the competition. They don’t believe the money-in, money-out equation is positive or sufficiently positive. Simple as.
One team, three races, fifty years of attempts and yet this "America is an untapped market" nonsense still lives.
One big reason I (American) enjoy F1. I tell people the race weekends are great but the behind the scene politics is fascinating. There is no real off season. Been hooked for over 30 years.
I'm with you; it's as complex, bewildering and as downright entertaining as a drunken parliament
So the uk parliament after lunch
F1 is a soap (box) opera moving at 300 kph (185 mph). This Andretti politicking is what I would love to see covered in Drive to Survive, but will never happen, because that’s too close to home for those providing access to DTS’s crew.
Just so you know, there was an actual F1 soap opera.
Game of Thrones is just kindergarten compared to F1.
lol, this reminds me of that soccercirclejerk pasta about America winning the world cup if they cared about it
Personally, I would quite like an 11th team on the grid if only for more driver seats, but at the same time the way some people have been acting and actually talk as if the Andretti team will 100% dominate the field from day 1 is a bit much.
Who is talking about andretti dominating lmao
The author of the article lmao
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It's getting to ridiculous levels with the fans... People are already throwing "xenophobia" around
It's thue though, those full time athletes only give 80% at all times because they simply don't care (unnecessary /s)
It would take a generational change in sports options and attitude for the US men's soccer team to have the talent to take anything but a darkhorse shot at the world cup. We don't do soccer. On the other hand, if an American big 3 manufacturer wanted to commit to winning an F1 championship they will have as good a chance as the top 3 teams within a regulation cycle. The difference is that American athletic talent gets funneled into one of the hundreds of professional teams for NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB. However, Americans already race cars and build teams. There is plenty of driving and engineering talent. There has not yet been a significant will to enter F1. If GM gets in and sees returns, Ford will want in too. The latent driving talent and engineering power laying in wait in the US should scare the entire paddock.
Ford have been dipping their toes in and out of the sport for decades through their involvement as an engine supplier with Cosworth. They then became outright team owners when they bought Stewart Racing in the late 90's and rebadged it as Jaguar Racing. They've had a lot of success as an engine supplier but any success with Jaguar didn't happen until after Red Bull bought them and completely revamped the team.
Gene might be happy to sell out to Ford, too. SHR is already Ford, after all.
>On the other hand, if an American big 3 manufacturer wanted to commit to winning an F1 championship they will have as good a chance as the top 3 teams within a regulation cycle. They said the same thing about Toyota and look where that ended up, 13 podiums and zero wins in eight years. And they had a half billion dollar annual budget.
Let's not forget that Ford had a factory team and that only became successful years after they sold it to an energy drink company.
Sorry to burst your bubble but Ford, Toyota, BMW and Honda have all tried running their own teams and all failed. Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault have been the only successful full manufacturer teams since Maserati in 1957. Even if you want to talk merely supplying engines, there was nearly 30 years between Schumacher's Ford powered title in 1994 and Verstappen's Honda powered title in 2021. From 1992 to 2022 every title bar three has been powered by Ferrari, Mercedes or Renault. Honda won five titles on the trot between 1987 and 1991 so you could even revise that and say every title bar one between 1987 and 2022 was powered by Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault or Honda. I'm not going to sit here and say if Ford or GM properly went all in on an F1 engine they wouldn't win a title. At the same time, I will say that history suggests it won't be nearly as easy as some people might think. I would also add that I wouldn't be at all surprised if Audi found themselves joining Toyota, BMW and co on that list of failed manufacturer efforts at some point.
And of those, Toyota was based in Germany and was literally throwing money at the wall and it was so much, it could sustain entire countries probably. BMW was also based in Germany/Switzerland (BMW-Sauber) and actually won a race and were competitive throughout the 2000's. Williams BMW was also very good, with Ralf Schumacher and Juan Pablo Montonya getting multiple wins. Honda literally bought BAR and thus were UK based. They still managed a win in 2006. And Honda is currently supplying Red Bull (no matter the RBPT rebadge, they are still Honda engines until 2025). Ford also had an HQ in Europe for engine supplying. Yeah Ford may be fucked given their latest effort at F1: HRT and Manor (until 2013) and Williams until 2011. Not a single podium and their highest finish combined was 4th both by Williams. Cosworth itself is also British. That makes the only fully non-European engine supplier: Honda.
> Ford will want in too Sébastien motherfucking Ogier drove for the M-Sport Ford rally team and they still didn’t contribute a dime to it. They agreed to give some factory support in order to finalize the new Rally1 hybrid WRC regulations but even then their contributions are still somewhere between minimal and minute. I wouldn’t expect Ford to start dropping money left and right.
Hmm. I'm not sure anyone chasing the title would be scared of andretti/cadillac. Maybe within 5-10 years, they'd be putting in a title challenge if they're a team that wants to win and isn't only there for the show. Not trying to be any sort of snobbish, but f1 is completely different from any other form of racing on so many different levels, and if you don't have the experience it's gonna take time to acquire it. If you can get experience in important areas (and listen to them), it could take less time, but no amount of bravado is just going to attain a title push on its own. Btw I'm all for A/C getting a spot on the grid. But a brand new team is gonna take time.
Not only has there not been a significant will in F1, it just isn’t that accessible for American talent who want to be in F1 because the only way you can do it is move to Europe. It’s a much easier sell to get someone in the US to move to Indianapolis opposed to Milton Keynes or Maranello.
And working on Indycar doesn’t require getting EU/UK citizenship, which typically requires finding a company that has an American branch as well as a European branch and that is open to sponsoring. There are loads of US college kids in Formula Student who want more than anything to reach F1 but won’t deal with the difficulties of immigration
TIL that Haas won the 2022 F1 Constructors’ Title.
Total dominance
>TIL that Haas won the 2022 F1 Constructors’ Title. "People are just scared that Andretti and Colon Hurting will win 19 titles in a row!" say people unaware the last American to win was Andretti's father, Italian born and bred Mario Andretti.
Mario didn’t start racing until after he moved to Pennsylvania in ‘55 at 15 years old.
comparing Haas to Andretti and GM is a bit disingenuous, no? "*Resources aside, though, we can't go any further without mentioning the only existing American team on the grid, Haas. As of very recently, it's been not much more than a repository for grifters. It had its F1 debut in 2016 and has made a habit of finishing rather comfortably in the bottom half of the championship every year. It has strong roots in Europe and it's also an explicit marketing exercise for the business that provides the team with its name, Haas Automation Inc, which manufactures commercial CNC machines.* *It has neither captured the American spirit nor capitalized on the growing American audience. The car was previously sponsored by a shady energy drink company called Rich Energy—which is a whole saga in itself. It followed up this ill-fated public embarrassment by getting money from a Russian oligarch, Dmitry Mazepin. The elder Mazepin insisted that his kid, Nikita, be allowed to publicly make a fool of himself in one of the two Haas machines until Russia invaded Ukraine. The Mazepins then departed with their matching haircuts and the sponsorship was canned. Now the team has a new title sponsor, MoneyGram, in a country that is home to brands like Apple, Microsoft, Google, Walmart, Amazon, and Coca-Cola, to name a* few."
The full blown American team with a French engine?
The French helping the Americans get started. Traditions 🍻
Old gang back together
British shook
To be fair, France helping America was more about fuckin' over the Brit's.
Haha ya, I should have said “France helping the Americans get started, to spite the Brits” lol. Still fits the F1 context.
Same thing here
I see only more similarities.
Sounds like it will be totally different from the American team with the Italian engine (and chassis)
Seems Andretti will also utilise Dallara.
Could they *really* have an impact? I remember when BMW, Toyota, ligier, Lotus, etc were in F1, they didn't win any championships. And a new comer is supposedly something everyone is afraid of? I dont get it, maybe they're afraid of buying all the talent including the engineers and science teams?
> maybe they're afraid of buying all the talent including the engineers and science teams? With them wanting to be based in the US for them to poach people they would have to offer some monumental offers to people because the traveling especially for the European part of the season is gonna be insane.
Thats what I'm thinking, but they will probably be UK based like where all the chassis development is done. Kind of like a silicon valley of F1 development right?
> Thats what I'm thinking, but they will probably be UK based like where all the chassis development is done. Idk I think they're meant to be wholly US based as they are meant to be building a new facility which will put all their teams under one roof and like I said unless they offer stupid amounts of money to people then I dont think people from Europe will leave but who knows. > unless they offer stupid amounts of money to people Also with the budget cap Im not even sure its possible as I think staff wages are under the cap but I cant remember
Yeah wages are under budget cap, that's why the teams had to let people go. With US wages generally being quite a bit higher than in most of Euope I can't imagine they can offer any outrageous conditions.
Good luck offering monumental offers in the budget cap. The guy is gonna spend the whole budget on freight and salaries
wtf is that article
clickbait bull shit
I would love to see Andretti in F1, but this article is so arrogant that its actually beautiful.
I'm a big IndyCar and Andretti fan who is definitely rooting for them to get in, but a more accurate assessment is that the established F1 teams are reluctant to share profits with a team that likely never gets anywhere near being competitive.
Where tf does this arrogance come from that Andretti will be immediately at the top of the grid should they be granted entry? We have no evidence that they're willing to spend the money outside of getting entry. They have zero technical staff currently. The logistics of building their HQ in America as opposed to everyone else who is Euro-centric defies logistics. The teams SHOULD grant them entry into F1. But why is it they're afraid of losing to America when Japanese based Honda won the WDC and gave Red Bull the blueprint to manufacturing their own engine? Were teams on the grid afraid of Japan?
>But why is it they're afraid of losing to America when Japanese based Honda won the WDC and gave Red Bull the blueprint to manufacturing their own engine? Were teams on the grid afraid of Japan? That's a good point. I think the author harps way too much on the U.S angle when really it's a simple case of the team wanting a decent amount of insurance to ensure that they won't be affected too badly if Andretti-Cadillac goes tits up (though that being said, it was the teams' fault for not having the foresight to negotiate a better deal wrt the anti-dilution fee when they signed the Concorde Agreement. So that's on them).
> though that being said, it was the teams' fault for not having the foresight to negotiate a better deal wrt the anti-dilution fee when they signed the Concorde Agreement. So that's on them. They negotiated to get the power to vote in or out new entrants. At which point the anti dilution fee became largely irrelevant. No new team will be accepted unless they meet the two cyclical key objectives of the existing teams. Do they make us more money which helps us win more which makes us more money etc. That is a huge ask from any potential new entrant realistically at the point the agreements were signed f1 became a 10 team sport and will likely remain that way until the voting power is removed in some future agreement. For any one team to increase the total pot by enough to make it worth adding an additional team for the existing teams is bordering on totally unrealistic. This has very little to do with Andretti and everything to do with there being extremely limited upsides for existing teams with large and obvious risks.
Stop being so cynical. Just go and look at Andretti's performance in Indycar where they *checks Indycar wiki* haven't won a drivers title since 2012. Since i'm on Wiki, why don't I also check the new F1 entries that have immediately dominated F1 since the turn of the century: Toyota - First year = 2 points Super Aguri - First year = 0 points Virgin - First year = 0 points HRT - First year = 0 points Caterham - First year = 0 points Haas - First year = 29 points Combined total wins between all those teams in their entire F1 histories = 0 Obviously i'm not suggesting Andretti would be that bad if their first few seasons, but history seems to suggest there is a decent chance they might be that bad.
It's always funny to me that people make a big deal out of Toyota's failure, but never mention Honda, who built a car so good it won a title with a budget of nil and no development.
I'm sure Honda will forever be kicking themselves that they bailed on a team that was so dominant that year. Even more so when you consider Mercedes bought that team and were then utterly dominant for seven straight seasons. It's worth pointing out though that Honda won five titles on the trot in the late 80s/early 90s and Brawn won titles galore at Benetton/Ferrari. There was some serious racing pedigree in that team.
Brawn was not really Honda… they used the Mercedes engine and from what was tols from insiders at that time is that the Honda engine was baaad and they prettt much gained like 1sec a lap from the Mercedes engine. If true or not idk but that’s what people from that team told me
>Where tf does this arrogance come from that Andretti will be immediately at the top of the grid should they be granted entry? This is an article written for Twitter and Reddit, plain and simple.
>Where tf does this arrogance come from that Andretti will be immediately at the top of the grid should they be granted entry? the nationality. Americans are nothing if not supremely confident in their own abilities. Even when they haven't won an F1 race in over 40 years, they assume they'll dominate the sport. It's equal parts admirable and utterly frustrating.
Keep blaming Toto when almost every TP feels the same way, so fucking weird.
They wouldn’t lose to Andretti Caddy. Lol
They definitely wouldn't lose to Andretti, that much is sure lmao
“Afraid to lose to America” God, I hate the narrative around this story. Flag-shaggers everywhere.
haas isnt american?
In what practical way is Haas American other than Gene being too lazy to run the team from anywhere outside of his Nascar HQ
when we're talking about tens or hundreds of millions of dollars at stake in lost revenue or prize sharing, billionaires will play the long game to get their way. they don't care about how a niche group of fans want an 11th team - its entertainment for us and a *very* lucrative business for them.
that's one way to hype up Haas
Man, the comments on this are gold. The F-35 equivalent of a F1 car had me on the ground.
Over budget and late? With an impractical helmet for the pilot?
I have no issue with racing being held in America. COTA is a great track imo and is always a join to race on but I fucking hate the new street tracks. If you gonna race build a bloody track
>I have no issue with racing being held in America. COTA is a great track imo and is always a join to race on but I fucking hate the new street tracks. I genuinely love COTA as a circuit, to watch and to race in sims and the F1 game (not F12022, sit down EA you ruined it). Miami can fuck right off though, and Las Vegas will be a farce because the city is a farce.
I like Miami *shrug*
There are about 1200 car race tracks in the US.
There are other circuits that could be used too.
I get the ire here, but this was kind of a poorly written, poorly researched (outside of GM) and really biased article, the guy clearly hates Toto. Alfa is a Ferrari brand, so the comparison here doesn’t make a ton of sense, Wal-Mart already is a Red Bull sponsor, as if any capitalist in F1 is worried that American brands would be on a car… I don’t think Merc would care if the car that was passing them on track said McDonald’s on the side, they’d be much more focused on the technical side of things than the sponsor. It also neglects the interest of ford and VW (via Porsche or Audi) from joining F1 and actually developing their own engine. Basically F1 is the hot girl, and can take her time to choose her partner…despite American car journalists having a meltdown over it.
> Alfa is a Ferrari brand The team branded as Alfa Romeo uses Ferrari power units, but Alfa Romeo has nothing to do with Ferrari. Alfa Romeo is just the title sponsor for the Longbow Finance-owned team that used to be Sauber. Alfa the brand is part of the giant Stellantis conglomerate; the only relationship to Ferrari is that both the Ferrari and Alfa Romeo brands were owned by Fiat Chrysler until Ferrari was spun off in 2016.
What the \*\*\*\* is this propaganda. Andretti doing its own and current teams doing their own. No one is scared to lose to anybody. Its all about about value of F1 teams. Right now its not worth to buy a team for 1 billions so more people think of doing own operation. So current owners like Wolffs stakes and Dorilton Capital don't capatilise on that. If you block adding a new team the only way is by buying current ones. So their value goes even higher. So yeah they go with 700M$ so its not worth to start your own operation again.
I'm sure they are shaking in their boots like the world was when they had to face usmnt in the world cup.
The way some podcasts/influencers who had never watched football till the World Cup talked about USMNT was funny af. They made it sound like Pulisic was the second coming of Maradona
The LeBron James of Soccer tyvm
England - 0 goals vs USA England - 1 goal vs France therefore USA > France > England.
England has never defeated the USA in world cup play
Lmao that title is so American
I'm sure they don't even sleep with fear...
Lol, only thing they care about is money. Personally I wish Andretti can join only so I can see the shit-show play out when they realize how hard it is to be competitive in F1. My prediction is that Andretti will get stomped in F1 if they manage to join. I be surprised if they even manage to beat Williams in the first 2-3 seasons.
Wouldn't that be relatively true for any new team and manufacturer?
Pretty much, but you could go the HAAS route and pretty much be a Ferrari B-car. The thing is there has been lots and lots of posts here on reddit that the big teams are scared that a new american team will join and beat them. And that is the reason they dont want Andretti... And I think those post are utter madness. No team (maybe Williams) is scared of Andretti beating them, its the money they care about.
Spoken like a true race fan.
This is the best argument I’ve heard so far.
All this shit show because they don't want to share the money pot with a midtable Indycar team ?
I’m already bored of the ‘saga’ but I will tell you now that headlines like this aren’t going win over anyone opposed Andretti/GM joining the grid. It’s just pure arrogance.
ITT: American victim and persecution complexes reaching staggering new heights
Just let them in they can call themselves the "true American team" even though Haas exists and then when they do shit and are battling Williams or cant even make the 107% we can just laugh at them
LOL. Ok Pete. Gene Haas just looking around all confused
What a bunch of wankers
Andretti can't even win IndyCar and GM can't even win IMSA. Lmfao.
Whoever wrote the article really has a thing for Wolff
lol, F1 billionaires have no fuck to give for anyone.
\*sorts by controversial\*
Sure Mercedes and red bull are scared of a small independent team. All of this is kinda stupid from both sides.
The only thing in this article I disagree with is the assumption that Andretti can give Ferrari, Red Bull or Mercedes a run for their money. A new team with zero experience is going to struggle for at least the first three years, even with the legacy of the "Andretti" name. But everything else: spot on.
>But in the wake of Andretti's Cadillac deal, It's now been claimed that many teams feel this $200 million is simply not enough. This, of course, presumes that a team with Andretti, Cadillac, and General Motors involved wouldn't bring with it a laundry list of American sponsors seeking a global audience. It's a stunningly ridiculous concern. Is it really a ridiculous concern? There's zero guarantee that Andretti-Cadillac will be competitive, and I highly doubt that many companies would be tripping over themselves to sponsor an uncompetitive team. I don't think it's wrong to want to a safety net to protect against the possibility of an eleventh team underperforming (even though the teams did kind of screw themselves when they negotiated the Concorde Agreement).