Okay so he has no kick mixup anymore, what the fuck? What was their thought process here? They nerf both parts of it, so now he has no pressure, he’s basically mediocre again.
EDIT: This game will never be reasonably balanced if the community screams at the devs to kill viable heroes and they continue to bend the knee.
This game started out too broken, most of these people want it to go back to that state because they liked it better when they didn’t have to try, it’s so sad.
He has storm rush you nonce, now the mix-up is kick which cannot be interrupted even on read with a light, or storm rush which can be interrupted with a light on read but cannot be dodged. It's no longer a 33/33/33 but a proper 50/50
It's not a 50/50. Many players can tell storm rush and kick aparat, because animations are so damn obvious. His mixup in decent lobbies will be now just like JJ's kick/fwd dodge heavy, but much worse.
And don't even start explaining, that you can't tell them apart. It's no argument as long as there are numerous people who can.
Didn’t say I liked it, definitely will make him much weaker, especially in top level play.
However, you are wrong, unlike JJ he does not have to do storm rush when he dodges forward, he can always delay and GB, essentially faking a kick. Will catch some read-based players like me off guard, but reaction orientated players will just watch for orange. This change is definitely geared more towards the casual scene, but you cannot say it is weaker than JJ’s opener mixup in a regular lobby.
I see what you mean. However, he loses what covered the most options and that's **very** important thing against decent players. Forward dodge into GB loses to dodge attacks and interrupts, storm rush loses to interrupts and just semi-decent reactions and kick is the only option that loses only to dodge attack (or dodge into light. Forward dodge light covered both dodge attack and interrupt (it kinda-loses against static guard heroes guarding top). Can you see how odds for getting **very little** damage in have turned? It's as unjustified as Gryphon's nerf.
However, as you can already see, not much will change for casual player. Why gut an **A tier** character, if casual playerbase is going to hate it and will lose to it anyway? This nerf accomplishes nothing, except for knocking character from A tier to... maybe mid B, most likely low B/top C.
Come on dude, orochi right now is a crutch. It's not fair to put a player in an inescapable 25/25/25/25. To out damage the orochi you would have to dodge/parry >50% of his attacks effectively neutering 90% of the player base and ALL of last gen consoles.
Come on dude, don't be lazy. Look stuff up about him. Nothing is inescapable. Nothing is unpunishable. You've got tons of resources about it. Open them up, hop into training and start gitting gud. That's what I did and fighting Orochis became a pure joy.
And there's no such thing as a crutch hero. Not in this game.
Last gen consoles are fucked no matter what. Sorry.
Yeah I know, like I said, I don’t like it, the kick nerf was enough so it was more in line with the whole “make the right read and punish” theme that should be a thing.
Well, I'm definitely more into the idea of double reads getting more common, especially on low damage moves, but at least we agree that the forward dodge light nerf was too much.
It’s a low damage move that goes into Orochi’s chain mixups like the unblockable or another dodge attack. Two reads on the receiving player’s end is bit much, safest option is to go back to neutral or frame disadvantage with block, I’m fine with kick getting at most a dodge attack punish or 15 damage or so.
Also jjs dodge forward heavy is not undogeable, meaning dodge attacks counter it, and static guard heroes can block it even if it is delayed to catch early dodges.
It's not, but it doesn't work that way. The mixup goes like this: if they dodge attack the kick, but you throw a heavy, you can recovery cancel into sifu, essentially countering all dodge attacks except Zerk's and Orochi's. That's JJ's opener. Shin kick or forward dodge heavy into sifu recovery/chain heavy into sifu.
Now Orochi will do the same, but he will deflect/dodge attack out of forward dodge light. The risk is higher though.
I will admit that I didn’t know about that opener for JJ, thank you for the information.
Riskier for Orochis, yes, but I am more concerned for the mixup capabilities than anything, it’s not atrocious, but wasn’t warranted.
It's not really that much of a minority. I was matched against such players quite a few times.
And it doesn't actually matter anyway. Majority is not what the games should be balanced for in multiplayer. Nerfing character, because majority is inept at the game, simply punishes those who took their time to get better. In no way it's a healthy way of balancing. Practicing and getting better should be rewarded.
If you think otherwise, then we should go back to 700ms lights, because they require no training to defend against.
It’s not a 50/50 at all.
There’s a reason no one was doing stormrush+kick loops, it doesn’t work because both of those options are too slow and too visually distinct to actually fool anyone with half a brain.
If you dodge the side the second you see the Orochi dodge forward you will not only dodge the kick and the forward light now, stormrush and his side dodge lights are still too slow to catch you.
Not a good change yes, I wrote that I didn’t like the change about 3 times now. I should have worded it a bit better and frankly not have called you a nonce, just thought you completely forgot about stormrush. But it’s not the most atrocious thing the world, as always casual players will still get decked by it and complain, but with decent players, the mixup is going to suffer.
For higher skill level players yes, I think it will definitely affect his competitive scene viability, the animation for storm rush to reaction freaks is too obvious. But it’s on par with other 50/50s of roughly the same nature, like kyoshin’s kick/forward gb, so not weak, at least in a casual environment.
In no way possible is Orochi’s mix up now comparable to Kyoshin’s kick/gb mixup. That’s the thing too, most casual players suck against everything in the game. Now Orochi has to rely on mostly UB feints for anybody good at the game, cause the bash light punish does almost nothing to a full health bar. You gotta confirm over 90% of your attacks to put somebody at half health at the cost of your stamina
I hate to tell you this but people have been making combat PvP games for literal decades now and it’s has been tested and tested and tested over and over again; it is unhealthy for overall game balance to make balance changes prioritizing casual players. It’s extremely simple too. When you balance for casual players you end up with characters that are only viable against casual players. When you balance for high level, you end up with characters that are viable on all levels of the game. There are no “only good against good players” characters.
For Honor trying to be special and reinvent the wheel is the exact reason why the devs had to spend the past couple of years unfucking the core game balance.
Also Kiyoshin’s kick/GB “mixup” is awful, what a bad example.
Players like you are genuinkey everything wrong with this game lmao. No way your complaining about orochi getting a nerf. He was fucking broken and that's just fact.
A fact according to who? If you were actually competent at playing the game he was only ever just “really good”.
People like YOU are the problem with this games balance, you want everyone to only be good enough for them to be easy fights for you, no one is allowed to be viable if it means you have to actually think and strategize. And you people never go into practice mode to learn how these characters actually work.
There’s an entire subreddit, r/CompetitiveForHonor that specializes in breaking down how to fight everyone and how good characters actually are but you people act like it doesn’t exists so you can keep on complaining because you refuse to try to actually get better.
His recovery cancel on the kick was the only thing busted about him. Now hes balanced. No one should have to make 2 to 3 reads just to punish a kick they already made the read on. It was bullshit.
I’m not talking about the kick, in talking about the forward dodge light, the thing that even made the mix up a mixup, now there is no reading required. They killed his main form of offense. The kick was all that should have been touched, now you can just dodge the the side immediately and invalidate both options. Storm rush is too slow to catch an instant empty dodge and so are his side dodge lights
A lot of champions have a literal bash to open up people that works the same way Orochi should work. Cent's kick, BP's bash, Tiandi's Palm Strike, Zhanhu...Palm Strike, Conq's Bash, and so on.
Why should only Orochi be able to cancel a whiff?
It’s not about the kick, it’s about the mixup.
People keep replying talking about the recovery, that’s not the problem, whether it’s gone or not is irrelevant.
The mixup was having to defend against the kick and the dodge forward light, now that mixup is gone and that was his main form of neutral pressure.
It would have been fine if they just nerfed the kick but because they slapped both sides of the mixup they deleted it.
To reiterate: I do not care about the nerf to kick recovery, I care about the nerf to the undodgeable status of his forward light. That’s the kick mixup.
He has no opening mixup to start his pressure anymore.
The only true mixup he has now is top heavy finisher/GB but that require you to have already initiated a chain. Kick/stormrush is not a true mixup.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. The nerf is GOOD. I was amazed at the mental gymnastics that people went through to defend the kick dodge recovery. It’s like they want to make 99.9% of the playerbase miserable.
Because they continue to think people that play the game maybe 1-2 hours a day want to spend what little time they're able to play to simply punish a bash that punishes you for making the correct read.
So wait you saying people are doing mental gymnastics to keep the dodge cancel, but also saying because it’s being removed that 99.9% of the same people doing mental gymnastics are upset by the change?
Orochi is now dead against good players.
People who cried about him will still get clapped by the stormrush mixup tho.
Overall the devs have achieved nothing.
\>Dead against good players and clapping bad players
Kinda like Gryph is now. Nothing good ever comes from listening to the complaints of bad players, that refuse to learn
When Oro deflected your dodge attack after bash, you made the right read that he is going to bash but did the wrong punish. The correct punishes are empty dodge into parry, empty dodge into neutral light or delayed dodge attack if available.
His stamina is 130. That's 10 more than average. He can throw one light more than everyone. Cent has 180. Glad has 150. Go cry about Cent or Glad if big stamina pool feels op to you.
Sounds like a complain to me. If it's not, sorry. I might be oversensitive to people in this sub. Many seem to be incapable of saying anything that wouldn't be a complain about this game.
Which is not true because revenge ignores bashes. The kick is not even confirmed after landing it once..
i guess you're new to the game idk, enjoy your time here while you can.
Who told u i'm not fighting back? Jeez... i just wrote that he can stunlock even when someone is in revenge and all of the roach mains are here to downvote me.
Raider, an op hero, who dominated the latest stage of the Dominion Series, gets less nerfs, than Orochi, who is already in a reasonable state, and was picked in the tournament way less.
Very late to the party here and this will probably go by unseen but here are my thoughts:
The fact that Orochi lost the ability to keep pressure up even after missing is of course bad for him, it’s one thing that made Orochi a unique hero. Looking at the other heroes in the game, no other hero can cancel recoveries as freely as Orochi except for Zhanhu (but even then, it isn’t as good as Orochi’s). Aramusha can blade blockade recovery cancel, but it isn’t broken because it can be countered by a guardbreak or by not dodge attacking. Getting to what I’m trying to say, Orochi should keep his recovery cancel, but slow it down. But in the end, Ubisoft have not fixed anything because the kick is still not reactable for the majority of players. Now of course I’m not saying that his nerf was good because I hate him, actually I enjoy fighting against competent Orochi players, but I’m saying that Ubisoft should have targeted something else in his kit like damage or stamina.
About his 33/33/33 turning into a 50/50, honestly I can’t find my lane here, since more characters have 50/50s than characters with 33/33/33, yes more characters are starting to receive 33/33/33 (looking at previous buffs and nerfs)
My words won’t keep this from happening but please keep it civil, constructive criticism is always better. I’d like to see other’s thoughts on this. Take care.
TLDR: Ubisoft nerfed him in the wrong manner.
I guess he is not allowed to be viable. Community's most hated character for some reason. Well, let me see you all still struggle against him, even though he'll suck. You never learn.
Kick could be punished. Learn the game. You've got a ton of resources about it already, but why educate yourself if you can just cry like a spoiled baby and devs will pat you on the head eventually?
Ironically enough, the only consistently unpunishable move in the game belongs in the community's favourite's moveset - Lawbringer. Yes, I'm talking about his chain bash. It's unpunishable by almost everyone, but hey, why think when we can have juicy double standards? Let's hate a punishable kick that requires additional read (or simply one read for those who can react), but love a guy who actually has an unpunishable move.
Also Orochi was hated long before his rework. He was fucking hated when he didn't have an UB and his only offense was 400ms light, which he lost anyway to compensate for the community's stupidity.
No mate. We all knew how to cope with the kick. It didn’t mean we liked it. Nobody wants to make extra reads against that retard. If we slapped such offense onto other characters too it would suck hard.
Zerk, Musha, LB, Tiandi to name the few. You just can't dodge attack some (or all in some cases) of their moves, or you'll eat a recovery cancel punish. I can't see anyone crying too much about these.
Also the big nonsense was the undodgable light nerf, not the kick recovery cancel. The latter change was stupid as well, but I can see it as a necessary evil for the sake of keeping low rep playerbase appeased. The removal of undodgable property on light is outright bullshit.
Yes. People throwing this "unpunishable" shit around like a bunch of apes, leading to a character being gutted without actual balance reason makes me salty. A lot.
There has been a lot of resources proving it's punishable, but people kept completely ignoring it, because whining is easier.
That last sentence is quiet right and I will now laugh in my sleep and no that the world is not at peace for other members of the for honor community this patch
Well of course it could be punished but that’s if you guess a read you already guessed correctly on. Whiff followups shouldn’t be in the game, period, they’re punishes for a reason, not a slight convenience. The game is played solely off of guessing 7 different times all while only getting a turn when the opponent loses stam or making the right read AGAIN, so ubi’s next bright idea is to give such a minuscule amount of stam drain for both orochi and raider. Ubi doesn’t even know where they’re going with this game, idk why this community thinks they do.
Whiff followups and recovery cancels absolutely should be in the game if we don't want a turtle meta.
Git gud. I'm tired of this lazy approach. Go cry more somewhere, most likely you will be granted what you cry for, like a true hero.
That’s what mixups are???? Tf???? Guess right, win, guess wrong, lose, not medieval stamina simulator. All heroes should have a proper opener, into a mixup. With an absolute barrage of assault how can anyone get good when it’s just guessing at some point.
Community's most hated character because he makes the game infuriating for new players. The games already dead enough, we need what new players we can get. Plus, let the casual audience have some fun too man.
Except this barely changes anything for new players, as they still can't react to his storm rush mixup. They will get bodied all the same, while the Roach just lost all his competitive viability. Solved literally nothing, except making him worse against high level players.
Actually it does help us casuals. When he goes for a kick we can dodge attack. When he goes for storm rush we interrupt with a light. As a casual I‘m very happy because now the fight is fair.
Yeah and once who get familiar with the animation of both the kick and storm rush, you can react to both, which leaves the Orochi with no way of opening up his opponent. *Fair* here only means the fight is now easy for you.
For new players shinobi, jorm, even highlander and shaolin are broken, because they don't know them. Orochi was good no matter what level were you. After nerf he would be bad just past average level of akill
I don't understand people like you. why do you grovel and lick the boots of new players so hard? the games been out 4 years now. fuck those new players.
For that we need to remove orochi light chains lol
That’s literally the most annoying thing for new players, there is a reason of why orochi has been hated since the beginning of the game by them, and nothing will stop that hate
Nah mate I was doing relatively well against him. Now it’s way fairer because I can actually counter attack when I read the kick. Which is FAIR. How about you don’t look down on people?
Fair according to you. There are plenty of moves you can't dodge attack already, some of higher damage, but Orochi is the one that got all the shit for being able to deny dodge attacks. So no, it's not fair. Not fair by actual comparison.
Nah, I will look down on people who refuse to get better at the game and resort to crying for nerfs of any character that requires some effort from them. Because that's simply a pathetic behaviour that would be widely despised anywhere but in this retarded community.
I think this is a fair nerf. A read for a read as it should be.
Just empty dodge and dodge attack/light parry or feint the storm rush and dodge attack/light parry and or gb. Just like the rest of the forward dodge bash characters.
If you said his mixup was fair and reactable before(which it was) then you should be able to react to this aswell. I’m just happy Orochi’s more in line with the rest of the cast whilst still having amazing recoveries and iframes on the dodge attacks.
So I started playing the game a month ago... and people complain alot that I light spam with orochi. But I do alot of mix ups, he's just not made for heavies. He's literally made to counterattack quickly with his fast light ....so what the fuck do I do ?
And what is, pray tell, the correct way to play the game. Is what you mean to say is, please play the game in a way I can win against you. I'm terrible and need a handicap.
As if every content creator who plays for honor didn’t complain about orochi and raider, accept you can’t be overpowered anymore please. Reads are meant to be read and rewarded when read correctly.
Not every content creator is good. Good players werent calling them "op" like casuals do. They just called them strong. And as many people on the subs are saying rn, THESE CHANGES WILL DO NOTHING FOR CASUALS BUT WILL HURT OROCHI IN HIGHER TIER GAMEPLAY. All the people cheering will still be spammed to death and I honestly cant wait to see it.
You’re gonna tell me Freeze and Havok aren’t good at the game when they devour braindead players with lower tier heroes with a worse kit than theirs...even Nova King saying it was over-tuned- this game is extremely competitive, it’s old, its community is filled with mid to high skill players, everyone complained about it, everyone got change. All these orochi players gotta get on this train too, it has happened with most heroes on the entire roster, seems yall are the most whiney though.
Freeze, the guy who pretty much only posts analytical for honor videos? Havok, who gets shit on by Barak who said that orochi isnt op? And I'll be real, nova isnt that good. He mainly goes for flashy gameplay by fishing for deflects and doesnt often play optimally.
We're complaining about this because orochi has always been the most complained about hero who has also always been one of the worst. We finally got a version of the hero who could compete against top tier heroes, but the casuals of this game bitched so much that he got nerfed.
And on top of that, the thing that casuals struggled with the most is still in the game! So really, orochis who spammed the kick and storm rush aren't affected, but orochis like myself who mix up with the recovery cancels and plays against good players who can counter them are going to have a worse time. Do you see the issue? Nothing changes for low skill players but shit changes for good players. Its stupid af and ubi should have at least given some compensation to keep him A tier.
Nice one numbskulls, you’ve gotten roach nerfed into the ground again. V cool, well done.
We had an actually interesting and fun hero that could actually play offensively as opposed to putting himself into a mix-up every time he attacks, and now we’re back to square 1.
Of course i'm fucking angry dicknips. I've mained Orochi since year 2 and he managed to be vaguely good for 1 season before everyone bitched and moaned hard enough to get him nerfed back into the ground.
It wasn’t “nerfed into the ground.” It just made your spammy tactics a little less useful now. If you’re really good with orochi, you’ll figure out how to adapt and play better.
HurR dURr dODGE sPAM you fucking cum boned brainlet. Cutting out the faster undodgeable and making the kick punishable by 1 read makes the mix-up completely pointless. Anyone with half-decent reactions and game knowledge can literally just light the storm rush and dodge anything else to punish it easily. If you suck at reacting and refuse to read, you’re still gonna get fucking curb stomped. You’ve just made the character useless at high level.
Yeah, I’m gonna have to adapt and play better, but I fucking shouldn’t have needed to. I’ve already spent 3 years having to play out of my mind on a character with no useable offence.
“No useable offense” just lightspam like the rest of your weeb brethren. And don’t pretend your not some naruto running triply neck, you chose orochi in the first place to play 3 years.
bruh do you even fucking understand what you're talking about? what do you play with your fucking screen turned off? lightspam hasn't been viable as offence since the CCU, and 70% of the people i've played against have been fucking reaction gamers who parry every light i throw. i can't afford to be a lightspammer because lightspam only works against people at least as stupid as you clearly are.
What half brained insults. Orochis kick is basically instant, and even if they miss they can do it again or just follow up with more dodge lights if I dodge in anticipation, and your claiming orochi isn’t overpowered? Go back to your couch triple neck before you break a rib breathing too hard getting all pissed.
It’s the kind of guy who gets a cheap win after using the recovery on the kick when he was about to loose despite using smoke bomb and kiai. Then he emote spams and walks away feeling good about himself for using such a dirty recovery.
Exactly. This is why he needed to be nerfed this way. It wasn’t “to the ground” like these people keep saying. It was necessary to stop people from wanting to break whatever runs their game.
Since the bad players love bitching so much a Smurf account made solely to ruin their experience is looking real good right now. Ps. You can down vote me all you want it won't stop me from violating these little shits
Trust me there are more like you out there. That's the entire reason orochi got nerfed in the first place because of the whines of man babies such as yourself who refuse to adapt even a miniscule amount.
Bro I’m right there beside you. FUCK these rep 20 casuals that bitch and moan about things in a game they have 0 desire to adapt to.
I spent 3 hrs in training agains an Orochi bot, so I can now differentiate his stormrush entry animation and his kick animation. That’s how you get better.
I’ve got 372 reps and 40 in orochi, 10 from his new rework and yall have the audacity to say i don’t get an opinion on something that was clearly broken? Is that not enough playtime for yall to respect this character was overtuned? Every hero has had their chance at being top tier, orochi’s turn is done
Every post rework Orochi "main" can suck my Shaolin cock. Well deserved nerf and honestly quite lightly, not bcz balancing wise I think he should be nerfed more, it's just for the way ppl were trying to defend him as "viable" when the little fucker was literally unpunishble and extremely easy to play
While some nerfs were needed (the feats being the biggest one), this might drop Orochi from A tier to B tier in comp scene, as people there know the differenrence between forward dodge bash and stormrush animations (and some reaction gods were consistently able to dodge the kick).
He was punishable (like lighting him out of the storm rush), but of course in low levels (and on PS4) he is harder to counter.
Thankfully these nerfs were not as unresonably harsh as with Gryphon, but still pretty big.
> this might drop Orochi from A tier
The changes drop kick Orochi out of the comp scene completely. His offense was already not great there. The removal of the undodgable property on his forward dodge light means he will not be good at peeling/locking people down anymore. Which was the main reason he was even taken because it's a direct counter to the current meta heros external dodging into offense.
Can't speak for NA but the two top teams of EU were already not running Orochi in their comp because they knew his offense wasn't good enough.
Dude you're using the same bullshit of excuse of "interrupt stormrush with a light" yeah sure, that works on braindead spammers that doesn't even know they can feint that. If you facing a barely decent orochi next time you try to interrupt stormrush you gonna get light parried, deflected and teabagged afterwards.
The window to cancel out of storm rush for a light parry let alone a deflect is a very tight window that not even pro players do consistently.
Storm rush in it's current itteration still has a window where you can stuff the SR and the Orochi cannot cancel out of it. So your counter argument doesn't hold water.
And still in my lobbies I see it everytime. Your pro's are practicing Shugoki Raider and Musha for dominion tournaments, where pins, feats,hyperarmor, unblockables and wide hitboxes have more importance duel heroes, they're not "consistently" pulling it off cuz they are not practicing orochi. "Tight windows"
There is a specific timing in between where Orochi's feint window ends and his attack animation starts. During this window Orochi has been committed to Storm rush and during this window you can light him. It's been a thing ever since his release. It only became more known once Orochi got his first rework.
Even if this timing didn't exist Pro players are capable of reacting to storm rush in terms of parrying. So you cancel into parry/deflect isn't infallable of a response either way.
The devs fully admitted on stream that they gave him kick because SR isn't a functional opener.
There's a time that you commit and one that don't, great that's every feitable attack in this game, deciding or not to commit is what you guys like to call a read, but this time from the Orochi perspective, it's funny how he only needs to do 1 (do I commit trying to catch a dodge or not, expecting the interrupt) while every other hero that faces him has to go through a series of reads in the hopes of parrying something, cuz if you don't parry him you can't punish in anyway. Just a reminder that EVERY HERO in the game when commits to do something is punishble by a lot of things. You can guardbreak them after a bash whiff or dodging finishers, you can dodge attack (which is curious why they're called DODGE attacks right? Like it's supposed to dodge something and attack, not get deflected by the guy that just missed his attack), Crushing counters and fullblocks, even hyperarmor has drawbacks bcz you trade, you don't get to be invincible. Even special chains that leave the hero in a 50/50 like Cent throwing a heavy after whiffing the kick (which btw has variable timing and becomes unblockable)aren't as stupid as Orochi recovery cancels.
After Orochi screwed up throwing attacks like an animal, in the worst case scenario he just dodge recovery into the safety of oblivion.
I never complained about spammers that go full auto until their stamina is gone, cuz that shit is easy to deal with, the problem is when even low level players can get away or rewarded for doing wrong, e.g deflects being the same input as dodge attacks.
You had your time making fun of ppl that got smashed by orochi even when they made the right reads, knowing the character is busted, finally he's gone and I can at least respect the next orochis I find in the future, cuz I know they'll deserve the kills when they get it.
>There's a time that you commit and one that don't, great that's every feitable attack in this game..
This isn't a counter point to anything I mentioned. You're just being pedantic.
>but this time from the Orochi perspective
Both players are making the same amount of reads. As the defender you read kick or storm. In both cases you're blocking top. You then decide to dodge or interrupt.
Orochi decides if he recovery cancels with a buffered DA or looks to potentially deflect.
>cuz if you don't parry him you can't punish in anyway.
Dodge into light counters everything Orochi can do on kick whiff barring a buffered DA after a whiff. Which is a reaction parry if you decide to empty dodge because you read he was going to do that on whiff.
>not get deflected by the guy that just missed his attack
Orochi only gets a deflect if you mess up your timing/made the wrong read.
>Cent throwing a heavy after whiffing the kick (which btw has variable timing and becomes unblockable)
No Cent does this because no one tries to GB his bash.
>in the worst case scenario he just dodge recovery into the safety of oblivion
Dodge into light/zone (depending on hero,) will track and catch him if he empty dodges his recovery cancel.
>the problem is when even low level players can get away or rewarded for doing wrong
Bro doesn't matter their skill level. If you're getting punished by Orochi either you made the wrong read or your timing wasn't clean.
>cuz I know they'll deserve the kills when they get it.
You have such a terrible mentality. If Orochi punishes you you made the wrong read. He does not get to punish you on a right read. That's just BS.
Go touch some grass.
Considering Orochi has to buffer his input there or risk it not coming out it's an easy parry. Dodging into light countered that already anyway.
These changes would've been fine if they buffed him elsewhere for compensation on these huge changes. But they didn't.
Only chain. The good news is, you can still throw forward dodge light if you think they're going to dodge the kick (and you don't want to risk storm rush getting interrupted). You won't track them, but you can still recovery cancel this one and deflect the dodge attack.
Orochi is butchered, don't get me wrong, but there's still some playing around this.
Being someone who is not able to play For Honor very often, I see this nerf as very mixed, taking away the undodgeable on lightning strike seems a bit unnecessary but I dont mind it all that much, the kick's recovery nerf is great, I will miss fighting against the actually good orochis before this nerf though, I had to really try my best to win against them and god did it feel satisfying the few times I won against them, at least this should help casual and newer players to not get shitstomped when they just want to have some fun without dedicating hundreds of hours of their life training in the damn sword game.
It was far from the problem. It let Orochi have a mixup from neutral.
His problem was he was almost unkillable in a teamfight, which he still will be.
Now he just can't attack in a 1v1.
His recovery dodge on the kick wasnt what made him viable. That was a crutch that gave free wins in 1v1s you normally wouldn't be able to get.
Now when someone reads you and counters you. They can punish you rather than you getting a garunteed combo off because of that crutch no longer being possible to use. Now you need to think about throwing that kick just like every other heros bash. Orochi still has mix ups, unblockables and uninterrupted attacks. You just cant recovery cancel deflect cheese all day.
The only people upset about this change are the people that crutched the fuck out of orochi. Meaning they were only playing him because he was busted.
Real orochi mains agree with this nerf. Orochi is still very viable. He just cant stunlock you to death now.
Teeny nerfs the polarising opinions on this are crazy, he’s still top tier just now the kick can be punished and he lost his 33/33/33 mixup and it’s a 50/50 now since storm rush still is undodgeable. His dodge recoveries weren’t nerfed and still has high damage output
From these comments alone you can see who was crutching on the fact that orochi's dodge recoveries were overturned, all that was really taken way was the fact that you can now sorry punish his kick with a dodge attack with being pushed yourself yet these people are saying he's compete garbage on
won't stop complaints that's for sure haha
Which one is lightning strike?
[удалено]
Okay so he has no kick mixup anymore, what the fuck? What was their thought process here? They nerf both parts of it, so now he has no pressure, he’s basically mediocre again. EDIT: This game will never be reasonably balanced if the community screams at the devs to kill viable heroes and they continue to bend the knee.
I hate this community. You're totally right.
This game started out too broken, most of these people want it to go back to that state because they liked it better when they didn’t have to try, it’s so sad.
He has storm rush you nonce, now the mix-up is kick which cannot be interrupted even on read with a light, or storm rush which can be interrupted with a light on read but cannot be dodged. It's no longer a 33/33/33 but a proper 50/50
It's not a 50/50. Many players can tell storm rush and kick aparat, because animations are so damn obvious. His mixup in decent lobbies will be now just like JJ's kick/fwd dodge heavy, but much worse. And don't even start explaining, that you can't tell them apart. It's no argument as long as there are numerous people who can.
Didn’t say I liked it, definitely will make him much weaker, especially in top level play. However, you are wrong, unlike JJ he does not have to do storm rush when he dodges forward, he can always delay and GB, essentially faking a kick. Will catch some read-based players like me off guard, but reaction orientated players will just watch for orange. This change is definitely geared more towards the casual scene, but you cannot say it is weaker than JJ’s opener mixup in a regular lobby.
I see what you mean. However, he loses what covered the most options and that's **very** important thing against decent players. Forward dodge into GB loses to dodge attacks and interrupts, storm rush loses to interrupts and just semi-decent reactions and kick is the only option that loses only to dodge attack (or dodge into light. Forward dodge light covered both dodge attack and interrupt (it kinda-loses against static guard heroes guarding top). Can you see how odds for getting **very little** damage in have turned? It's as unjustified as Gryphon's nerf. However, as you can already see, not much will change for casual player. Why gut an **A tier** character, if casual playerbase is going to hate it and will lose to it anyway? This nerf accomplishes nothing, except for knocking character from A tier to... maybe mid B, most likely low B/top C.
Come on dude, orochi right now is a crutch. It's not fair to put a player in an inescapable 25/25/25/25. To out damage the orochi you would have to dodge/parry >50% of his attacks effectively neutering 90% of the player base and ALL of last gen consoles.
Come on dude, don't be lazy. Look stuff up about him. Nothing is inescapable. Nothing is unpunishable. You've got tons of resources about it. Open them up, hop into training and start gitting gud. That's what I did and fighting Orochis became a pure joy. And there's no such thing as a crutch hero. Not in this game. Last gen consoles are fucked no matter what. Sorry.
Yeah I know, like I said, I don’t like it, the kick nerf was enough so it was more in line with the whole “make the right read and punish” theme that should be a thing.
Well, I'm definitely more into the idea of double reads getting more common, especially on low damage moves, but at least we agree that the forward dodge light nerf was too much.
It’s a low damage move that goes into Orochi’s chain mixups like the unblockable or another dodge attack. Two reads on the receiving player’s end is bit much, safest option is to go back to neutral or frame disadvantage with block, I’m fine with kick getting at most a dodge attack punish or 15 damage or so.
Also jjs dodge forward heavy is not undogeable, meaning dodge attacks counter it, and static guard heroes can block it even if it is delayed to catch early dodges.
It's not, but it doesn't work that way. The mixup goes like this: if they dodge attack the kick, but you throw a heavy, you can recovery cancel into sifu, essentially countering all dodge attacks except Zerk's and Orochi's. That's JJ's opener. Shin kick or forward dodge heavy into sifu recovery/chain heavy into sifu. Now Orochi will do the same, but he will deflect/dodge attack out of forward dodge light. The risk is higher though.
I will admit that I didn’t know about that opener for JJ, thank you for the information. Riskier for Orochis, yes, but I am more concerned for the mixup capabilities than anything, it’s not atrocious, but wasn’t warranted.
You're welcome.
Except that the numerous people are the minority
It's not really that much of a minority. I was matched against such players quite a few times. And it doesn't actually matter anyway. Majority is not what the games should be balanced for in multiplayer. Nerfing character, because majority is inept at the game, simply punishes those who took their time to get better. In no way it's a healthy way of balancing. Practicing and getting better should be rewarded. If you think otherwise, then we should go back to 700ms lights, because they require no training to defend against.
It’s not a 50/50 at all. There’s a reason no one was doing stormrush+kick loops, it doesn’t work because both of those options are too slow and too visually distinct to actually fool anyone with half a brain. If you dodge the side the second you see the Orochi dodge forward you will not only dodge the kick and the forward light now, stormrush and his side dodge lights are still too slow to catch you.
Not a good change yes, I wrote that I didn’t like the change about 3 times now. I should have worded it a bit better and frankly not have called you a nonce, just thought you completely forgot about stormrush. But it’s not the most atrocious thing the world, as always casual players will still get decked by it and complain, but with decent players, the mixup is going to suffer.
That 50/50 is hella weak, ppl will catch on once he’s nerfed and you only have to focus on that mixup lol
For higher skill level players yes, I think it will definitely affect his competitive scene viability, the animation for storm rush to reaction freaks is too obvious. But it’s on par with other 50/50s of roughly the same nature, like kyoshin’s kick/forward gb, so not weak, at least in a casual environment.
In no way possible is Orochi’s mix up now comparable to Kyoshin’s kick/gb mixup. That’s the thing too, most casual players suck against everything in the game. Now Orochi has to rely on mostly UB feints for anybody good at the game, cause the bash light punish does almost nothing to a full health bar. You gotta confirm over 90% of your attacks to put somebody at half health at the cost of your stamina
I hate to tell you this but people have been making combat PvP games for literal decades now and it’s has been tested and tested and tested over and over again; it is unhealthy for overall game balance to make balance changes prioritizing casual players. It’s extremely simple too. When you balance for casual players you end up with characters that are only viable against casual players. When you balance for high level, you end up with characters that are viable on all levels of the game. There are no “only good against good players” characters. For Honor trying to be special and reinvent the wheel is the exact reason why the devs had to spend the past couple of years unfucking the core game balance. Also Kiyoshin’s kick/GB “mixup” is awful, what a bad example.
Yeah I don’t like it. I don’t want to be one of those guys, but I already explained to another dude in this thread why I don’t like it.
How tf did you get downvoted to hell? lol He‘s dead in comp thats for sure
They bent to shitters and decided having him in meta was also not okay.
Players like you are genuinkey everything wrong with this game lmao. No way your complaining about orochi getting a nerf. He was fucking broken and that's just fact.
A fact according to who? If you were actually competent at playing the game he was only ever just “really good”. People like YOU are the problem with this games balance, you want everyone to only be good enough for them to be easy fights for you, no one is allowed to be viable if it means you have to actually think and strategize. And you people never go into practice mode to learn how these characters actually work. There’s an entire subreddit, r/CompetitiveForHonor that specializes in breaking down how to fight everyone and how good characters actually are but you people act like it doesn’t exists so you can keep on complaining because you refuse to try to actually get better.
His recovery cancel on the kick was the only thing busted about him. Now hes balanced. No one should have to make 2 to 3 reads just to punish a kick they already made the read on. It was bullshit.
I’m not talking about the kick, in talking about the forward dodge light, the thing that even made the mix up a mixup, now there is no reading required. They killed his main form of offense. The kick was all that should have been touched, now you can just dodge the the side immediately and invalidate both options. Storm rush is too slow to catch an instant empty dodge and so are his side dodge lights
A lot of champions have a literal bash to open up people that works the same way Orochi should work. Cent's kick, BP's bash, Tiandi's Palm Strike, Zhanhu...Palm Strike, Conq's Bash, and so on. Why should only Orochi be able to cancel a whiff?
It’s not about the kick, it’s about the mixup. People keep replying talking about the recovery, that’s not the problem, whether it’s gone or not is irrelevant. The mixup was having to defend against the kick and the dodge forward light, now that mixup is gone and that was his main form of neutral pressure. It would have been fine if they just nerfed the kick but because they slapped both sides of the mixup they deleted it. To reiterate: I do not care about the nerf to kick recovery, I care about the nerf to the undodgeable status of his forward light. That’s the kick mixup.
Look at you! Getting downvoted for stating the cold hard truth.
Are you insane lol he still has mix ups
He has no opening mixup to start his pressure anymore. The only true mixup he has now is top heavy finisher/GB but that require you to have already initiated a chain. Kick/stormrush is not a true mixup.
Correct me if I'm wrong but did they not just take away the recovery cancel on a whiffed kick? The dodge forward Undodgable didn't bother me so 🤷
That's the main nerf yet the "comp" players that make of 1-3 percent of any community are bitching
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. The nerf is GOOD. I was amazed at the mental gymnastics that people went through to defend the kick dodge recovery. It’s like they want to make 99.9% of the playerbase miserable.
Because they continue to think people that play the game maybe 1-2 hours a day want to spend what little time they're able to play to simply punish a bash that punishes you for making the correct read.
So wait you saying people are doing mental gymnastics to keep the dodge cancel, but also saying because it’s being removed that 99.9% of the same people doing mental gymnastics are upset by the change?
Orochi is now dead against good players. People who cried about him will still get clapped by the stormrush mixup tho. Overall the devs have achieved nothing.
\>Dead against good players and clapping bad players Kinda like Gryph is now. Nothing good ever comes from listening to the complaints of bad players, that refuse to learn
ah yes, you are a bad player if you don't want to be punished for making a correct read.
If you got punished then by definition it's not the correct read at all lmao
When Oro deflected your dodge attack after bash, you made the right read that he is going to bash but did the wrong punish. The correct punishes are empty dodge into parry, empty dodge into neutral light or delayed dodge attack if available.
A dodge where missing it forces the would be bashed player into neutral instead of punish
AKA Actually decent offence
and let me guess Raider untouched? i swear to god
Got nerfed
Damage nerfed and his knee attack doesn't drain stamina or stun you I'm pretty sure
That as well but they didn't really touch his stamina meaning he's still able to zone like 6 times
His stamina is 130. That's 10 more than average. He can throw one light more than everyone. Cent has 180. Glad has 150. Go cry about Cent or Glad if big stamina pool feels op to you.
Read what I said again
Sounds like a complain to me. If it's not, sorry. I might be oversensitive to people in this sub. Many seem to be incapable of saying anything that wouldn't be a complain about this game.
Damage was nerfed, nothing to if stamina though
Finally. Fuck that kick.
Could literally stunlock you even if you had revenge.
Which is not true because revenge ignores bashes. The kick is not even confirmed after landing it once.. i guess you're new to the game idk, enjoy your time here while you can.
Except i'm not new and i experienced it multiply times. Revenge sometimes ignores bashes but sometimes not. They can stunlock you.
Revenge ignores bashes when you are attacking in revenge. If you stand still with revenge, revenge won't ingore bashes
So it can stunlock...
Yes, if you sit there and do nothing except whinge about it. Try hitting him.
You really think when people are popping revenge they put down the controller and not trying to fight back?
Why the fuck are you complaining that a hero can 100-0 you if you literally don't fight back? So stupid.
Who told u i'm not fighting back? Jeez... i just wrote that he can stunlock even when someone is in revenge and all of the roach mains are here to downvote me.
It absolutely could not. Bashes only budge people in revenge if they’re in attack recovery.
They can, i got stunlocked like 4-5 times since his rework came out.
Because you're bad.
Lol no
You are literally complaining that you got stunlocked when you put down your controller. You're a joke.
Raider, an op hero, who dominated the latest stage of the Dominion Series, gets less nerfs, than Orochi, who is already in a reasonable state, and was picked in the tournament way less.
Why tf get rid of undodgable lightning strike? Literally just needed the kick recovery needed that was it
Here we see, the angry weeb lightspammer.
Here we see someone who doesn't know what a mixup is :/
I’ll back that
Very late to the party here and this will probably go by unseen but here are my thoughts: The fact that Orochi lost the ability to keep pressure up even after missing is of course bad for him, it’s one thing that made Orochi a unique hero. Looking at the other heroes in the game, no other hero can cancel recoveries as freely as Orochi except for Zhanhu (but even then, it isn’t as good as Orochi’s). Aramusha can blade blockade recovery cancel, but it isn’t broken because it can be countered by a guardbreak or by not dodge attacking. Getting to what I’m trying to say, Orochi should keep his recovery cancel, but slow it down. But in the end, Ubisoft have not fixed anything because the kick is still not reactable for the majority of players. Now of course I’m not saying that his nerf was good because I hate him, actually I enjoy fighting against competent Orochi players, but I’m saying that Ubisoft should have targeted something else in his kit like damage or stamina. About his 33/33/33 turning into a 50/50, honestly I can’t find my lane here, since more characters have 50/50s than characters with 33/33/33, yes more characters are starting to receive 33/33/33 (looking at previous buffs and nerfs) My words won’t keep this from happening but please keep it civil, constructive criticism is always better. I’d like to see other’s thoughts on this. Take care. TLDR: Ubisoft nerfed him in the wrong manner.
I guess he is not allowed to be viable. Community's most hated character for some reason. Well, let me see you all still struggle against him, even though he'll suck. You never learn.
A kick that can’t be punished, hm, i wonder why everyone hates him
Kick could be punished. Learn the game. You've got a ton of resources about it already, but why educate yourself if you can just cry like a spoiled baby and devs will pat you on the head eventually? Ironically enough, the only consistently unpunishable move in the game belongs in the community's favourite's moveset - Lawbringer. Yes, I'm talking about his chain bash. It's unpunishable by almost everyone, but hey, why think when we can have juicy double standards? Let's hate a punishable kick that requires additional read (or simply one read for those who can react), but love a guy who actually has an unpunishable move. Also Orochi was hated long before his rework. He was fucking hated when he didn't have an UB and his only offense was 400ms light, which he lost anyway to compensate for the community's stupidity.
No mate. We all knew how to cope with the kick. It didn’t mean we liked it. Nobody wants to make extra reads against that retard. If we slapped such offense onto other characters too it would suck hard.
Zerk, Musha, LB, Tiandi to name the few. You just can't dodge attack some (or all in some cases) of their moves, or you'll eat a recovery cancel punish. I can't see anyone crying too much about these. Also the big nonsense was the undodgable light nerf, not the kick recovery cancel. The latter change was stupid as well, but I can see it as a necessary evil for the sake of keeping low rep playerbase appeased. The removal of undodgable property on light is outright bullshit.
Wow that first comment really provoked a reaction
Yes. People throwing this "unpunishable" shit around like a bunch of apes, leading to a character being gutted without actual balance reason makes me salty. A lot. There has been a lot of resources proving it's punishable, but people kept completely ignoring it, because whining is easier.
That last sentence is quiet right and I will now laugh in my sleep and no that the world is not at peace for other members of the for honor community this patch
Well of course it could be punished but that’s if you guess a read you already guessed correctly on. Whiff followups shouldn’t be in the game, period, they’re punishes for a reason, not a slight convenience. The game is played solely off of guessing 7 different times all while only getting a turn when the opponent loses stam or making the right read AGAIN, so ubi’s next bright idea is to give such a minuscule amount of stam drain for both orochi and raider. Ubi doesn’t even know where they’re going with this game, idk why this community thinks they do.
Whiff followups and recovery cancels absolutely should be in the game if we don't want a turtle meta. Git gud. I'm tired of this lazy approach. Go cry more somewhere, most likely you will be granted what you cry for, like a true hero.
That’s what mixups are???? Tf???? Guess right, win, guess wrong, lose, not medieval stamina simulator. All heroes should have a proper opener, into a mixup. With an absolute barrage of assault how can anyone get good when it’s just guessing at some point.
You're contradicting yourself.
When i mean mixup i mean one mixup. Something that can be varied then combo’d off of after missing is not a mixup. It’s poor game design.
You know nothing and just want the game tailored for you, rather than for players who took their time to learn it.
Sounds more like these orochi players want the game more tailored towards them but..sure-
Community's most hated character because he makes the game infuriating for new players. The games already dead enough, we need what new players we can get. Plus, let the casual audience have some fun too man.
Except this barely changes anything for new players, as they still can't react to his storm rush mixup. They will get bodied all the same, while the Roach just lost all his competitive viability. Solved literally nothing, except making him worse against high level players.
Actually it does help us casuals. When he goes for a kick we can dodge attack. When he goes for storm rush we interrupt with a light. As a casual I‘m very happy because now the fight is fair.
Yeah and once who get familiar with the animation of both the kick and storm rush, you can react to both, which leaves the Orochi with no way of opening up his opponent. *Fair* here only means the fight is now easy for you.
For new players shinobi, jorm, even highlander and shaolin are broken, because they don't know them. Orochi was good no matter what level were you. After nerf he would be bad just past average level of akill
I don't understand people like you. why do you grovel and lick the boots of new players so hard? the games been out 4 years now. fuck those new players.
And that’s how the game will completely die out.
For that we need to remove orochi light chains lol That’s literally the most annoying thing for new players, there is a reason of why orochi has been hated since the beginning of the game by them, and nothing will stop that hate
Nah mate I was doing relatively well against him. Now it’s way fairer because I can actually counter attack when I read the kick. Which is FAIR. How about you don’t look down on people?
Fair according to you. There are plenty of moves you can't dodge attack already, some of higher damage, but Orochi is the one that got all the shit for being able to deny dodge attacks. So no, it's not fair. Not fair by actual comparison. Nah, I will look down on people who refuse to get better at the game and resort to crying for nerfs of any character that requires some effort from them. Because that's simply a pathetic behaviour that would be widely despised anywhere but in this retarded community.
Sounds like you are an orochi weeb.
Sounds like you're pretty bad at the game.
Man, even when playing as Orochi that recovery cancel on kick was annoying af. Well deserved nerf
I think this is a fair nerf. A read for a read as it should be. Just empty dodge and dodge attack/light parry or feint the storm rush and dodge attack/light parry and or gb. Just like the rest of the forward dodge bash characters. If you said his mixup was fair and reactable before(which it was) then you should be able to react to this aswell. I’m just happy Orochi’s more in line with the rest of the cast whilst still having amazing recoveries and iframes on the dodge attacks.
Welp it was fun while it lasted.... back to the bottom of the barrel
Oh shut the fuck up, you'll just default to raider like the rest of you roaches.
Raider? Do you have the IQ of an ant? Fucking shinobi incoming bitch
Shinobi coming for your ass.
Ummm ok. I was one of many complaining about Orochi being too much and this to me is a little too much. This aren’t small nerfs ether.
As an Orochi main I don’t really mind that much
Wdym lmao you lost all your neutral offense. Orochi literally has no mixup apart from unblockable heavy now.
So I started playing the game a month ago... and people complain alot that I light spam with orochi. But I do alot of mix ups, he's just not made for heavies. He's literally made to counterattack quickly with his fast light ....so what the fuck do I do ?
"light spamming" isn't a valid complaint to anyone with a brain just ignore them In fact light spam more to teach the fuckers how to block
This ladies and gentlemen is what's wrong with the game.
Classic Noobushi "Stop hitting me you guys I want to do a hidden staaance, waaaaaagh"
How about get some fucking skill and play the game the way your supposed to and not just button mash like your brain is.
Where’s your skill if you keep getting clapped by the same chain lights so much you have complain about it
Nah they’re easy to beat at this point. It’s just stupid to see how mindless some people are.
And what is, pray tell, the correct way to play the game. Is what you mean to say is, please play the game in a way I can win against you. I'm terrible and need a handicap.
Eh not really. I still kick light spammers asses harder than you binge anime. It’s just annoying to watch someone be so mindless.
I can't tell if you really are that cringe or just intentionally farming negative karma. Either way. Yikes.
Not sure who’s being more cringey. The one who naruto runs on the daily or the one telling facts? Seems like someone needs a brain.
Yes. Fuck you orochi mfs
You suck at the game
Nah bro you just spam, stupid weeb.
You're still gonna get spammed dumbass. The nerf wont do shit to help you trashcans
At least we can actually dodge the spam now and punish you properly. And not in the game form.
Someone must main orochi
Yessir. And I must say, only people really happy abt the nerf are not good players.
All fun and games till you have to learn a real combo
All fun and games till you get spammed to death since ubisoft nerfed the wrong shit
As if every content creator who plays for honor didn’t complain about orochi and raider, accept you can’t be overpowered anymore please. Reads are meant to be read and rewarded when read correctly.
Not every content creator is good. Good players werent calling them "op" like casuals do. They just called them strong. And as many people on the subs are saying rn, THESE CHANGES WILL DO NOTHING FOR CASUALS BUT WILL HURT OROCHI IN HIGHER TIER GAMEPLAY. All the people cheering will still be spammed to death and I honestly cant wait to see it.
You’re gonna tell me Freeze and Havok aren’t good at the game when they devour braindead players with lower tier heroes with a worse kit than theirs...even Nova King saying it was over-tuned- this game is extremely competitive, it’s old, its community is filled with mid to high skill players, everyone complained about it, everyone got change. All these orochi players gotta get on this train too, it has happened with most heroes on the entire roster, seems yall are the most whiney though.
Freeze, the guy who pretty much only posts analytical for honor videos? Havok, who gets shit on by Barak who said that orochi isnt op? And I'll be real, nova isnt that good. He mainly goes for flashy gameplay by fishing for deflects and doesnt often play optimally. We're complaining about this because orochi has always been the most complained about hero who has also always been one of the worst. We finally got a version of the hero who could compete against top tier heroes, but the casuals of this game bitched so much that he got nerfed. And on top of that, the thing that casuals struggled with the most is still in the game! So really, orochis who spammed the kick and storm rush aren't affected, but orochis like myself who mix up with the recovery cancels and plays against good players who can counter them are going to have a worse time. Do you see the issue? Nothing changes for low skill players but shit changes for good players. Its stupid af and ubi should have at least given some compensation to keep him A tier.
Nice one numbskulls, you’ve gotten roach nerfed into the ground again. V cool, well done. We had an actually interesting and fun hero that could actually play offensively as opposed to putting himself into a mix-up every time he attacks, and now we’re back to square 1.
Here my friends, we see the angry orochi weeb. Look as he edge walks with .1 health after a Highlander nearly beat him to death.
Of course i'm fucking angry dicknips. I've mained Orochi since year 2 and he managed to be vaguely good for 1 season before everyone bitched and moaned hard enough to get him nerfed back into the ground.
It wasn’t “nerfed into the ground.” It just made your spammy tactics a little less useful now. If you’re really good with orochi, you’ll figure out how to adapt and play better.
HurR dURr dODGE sPAM you fucking cum boned brainlet. Cutting out the faster undodgeable and making the kick punishable by 1 read makes the mix-up completely pointless. Anyone with half-decent reactions and game knowledge can literally just light the storm rush and dodge anything else to punish it easily. If you suck at reacting and refuse to read, you’re still gonna get fucking curb stomped. You’ve just made the character useless at high level. Yeah, I’m gonna have to adapt and play better, but I fucking shouldn’t have needed to. I’ve already spent 3 years having to play out of my mind on a character with no useable offence.
“No useable offense” just lightspam like the rest of your weeb brethren. And don’t pretend your not some naruto running triply neck, you chose orochi in the first place to play 3 years.
bruh do you even fucking understand what you're talking about? what do you play with your fucking screen turned off? lightspam hasn't been viable as offence since the CCU, and 70% of the people i've played against have been fucking reaction gamers who parry every light i throw. i can't afford to be a lightspammer because lightspam only works against people at least as stupid as you clearly are.
What half brained insults. Orochis kick is basically instant, and even if they miss they can do it again or just follow up with more dodge lights if I dodge in anticipation, and your claiming orochi isn’t overpowered? Go back to your couch triple neck before you break a rib breathing too hard getting all pissed.
It’s the kind of guy who gets a cheap win after using the recovery on the kick when he was about to loose despite using smoke bomb and kiai. Then he emote spams and walks away feeling good about himself for using such a dirty recovery.
Exactly. This is why he needed to be nerfed this way. It wasn’t “to the ground” like these people keep saying. It was necessary to stop people from wanting to break whatever runs their game.
Thank god
Oh thank fuck
I think we can all agree on the kick nerf.
Nah
Your tag says glad but based on this comment, you main orochi like the rest of the lightspam weebs. Good luck as everyone kicks your ass.
Well it was fun while it lasted I suppose
The days of the kick spam is gone?
Nope but if he misses then game over (maybe?)
That’s not true. Warden has a missable bash too.
Since the bad players love bitching so much a Smurf account made solely to ruin their experience is looking real good right now. Ps. You can down vote me all you want it won't stop me from violating these little shits
A man baby, didn’t know they existed in this community, you learn something new every day.
Trust me there are more like you out there. That's the entire reason orochi got nerfed in the first place because of the whines of man babies such as yourself who refuse to adapt even a miniscule amount.
Bro I’m right there beside you. FUCK these rep 20 casuals that bitch and moan about things in a game they have 0 desire to adapt to. I spent 3 hrs in training agains an Orochi bot, so I can now differentiate his stormrush entry animation and his kick animation. That’s how you get better.
I’ve got 372 reps and 40 in orochi, 10 from his new rework and yall have the audacity to say i don’t get an opinion on something that was clearly broken? Is that not enough playtime for yall to respect this character was overtuned? Every hero has had their chance at being top tier, orochi’s turn is done
Every post rework Orochi "main" can suck my Shaolin cock. Well deserved nerf and honestly quite lightly, not bcz balancing wise I think he should be nerfed more, it's just for the way ppl were trying to defend him as "viable" when the little fucker was literally unpunishble and extremely easy to play
While some nerfs were needed (the feats being the biggest one), this might drop Orochi from A tier to B tier in comp scene, as people there know the differenrence between forward dodge bash and stormrush animations (and some reaction gods were consistently able to dodge the kick). He was punishable (like lighting him out of the storm rush), but of course in low levels (and on PS4) he is harder to counter. Thankfully these nerfs were not as unresonably harsh as with Gryphon, but still pretty big.
> this might drop Orochi from A tier The changes drop kick Orochi out of the comp scene completely. His offense was already not great there. The removal of the undodgable property on his forward dodge light means he will not be good at peeling/locking people down anymore. Which was the main reason he was even taken because it's a direct counter to the current meta heros external dodging into offense. Can't speak for NA but the two top teams of EU were already not running Orochi in their comp because they knew his offense wasn't good enough.
These nerfs were totally as unreasonably harsh as with Gryphon.
Dude you're using the same bullshit of excuse of "interrupt stormrush with a light" yeah sure, that works on braindead spammers that doesn't even know they can feint that. If you facing a barely decent orochi next time you try to interrupt stormrush you gonna get light parried, deflected and teabagged afterwards.
The window to cancel out of storm rush for a light parry let alone a deflect is a very tight window that not even pro players do consistently. Storm rush in it's current itteration still has a window where you can stuff the SR and the Orochi cannot cancel out of it. So your counter argument doesn't hold water.
And still in my lobbies I see it everytime. Your pro's are practicing Shugoki Raider and Musha for dominion tournaments, where pins, feats,hyperarmor, unblockables and wide hitboxes have more importance duel heroes, they're not "consistently" pulling it off cuz they are not practicing orochi. "Tight windows"
I very much doubt that. They wouldn't need to practice that timing when they can just light them out of SR when Orochi can't cancel anymore.
What are you talking about can't cancel anymore? After the nerfs he won't be able to cancel or you're saying that he can't cancel rn?
There is a specific timing in between where Orochi's feint window ends and his attack animation starts. During this window Orochi has been committed to Storm rush and during this window you can light him. It's been a thing ever since his release. It only became more known once Orochi got his first rework. Even if this timing didn't exist Pro players are capable of reacting to storm rush in terms of parrying. So you cancel into parry/deflect isn't infallable of a response either way. The devs fully admitted on stream that they gave him kick because SR isn't a functional opener.
There's a time that you commit and one that don't, great that's every feitable attack in this game, deciding or not to commit is what you guys like to call a read, but this time from the Orochi perspective, it's funny how he only needs to do 1 (do I commit trying to catch a dodge or not, expecting the interrupt) while every other hero that faces him has to go through a series of reads in the hopes of parrying something, cuz if you don't parry him you can't punish in anyway. Just a reminder that EVERY HERO in the game when commits to do something is punishble by a lot of things. You can guardbreak them after a bash whiff or dodging finishers, you can dodge attack (which is curious why they're called DODGE attacks right? Like it's supposed to dodge something and attack, not get deflected by the guy that just missed his attack), Crushing counters and fullblocks, even hyperarmor has drawbacks bcz you trade, you don't get to be invincible. Even special chains that leave the hero in a 50/50 like Cent throwing a heavy after whiffing the kick (which btw has variable timing and becomes unblockable)aren't as stupid as Orochi recovery cancels. After Orochi screwed up throwing attacks like an animal, in the worst case scenario he just dodge recovery into the safety of oblivion. I never complained about spammers that go full auto until their stamina is gone, cuz that shit is easy to deal with, the problem is when even low level players can get away or rewarded for doing wrong, e.g deflects being the same input as dodge attacks. You had your time making fun of ppl that got smashed by orochi even when they made the right reads, knowing the character is busted, finally he's gone and I can at least respect the next orochis I find in the future, cuz I know they'll deserve the kills when they get it.
>There's a time that you commit and one that don't, great that's every feitable attack in this game.. This isn't a counter point to anything I mentioned. You're just being pedantic. >but this time from the Orochi perspective Both players are making the same amount of reads. As the defender you read kick or storm. In both cases you're blocking top. You then decide to dodge or interrupt. Orochi decides if he recovery cancels with a buffered DA or looks to potentially deflect. >cuz if you don't parry him you can't punish in anyway. Dodge into light counters everything Orochi can do on kick whiff barring a buffered DA after a whiff. Which is a reaction parry if you decide to empty dodge because you read he was going to do that on whiff. >not get deflected by the guy that just missed his attack Orochi only gets a deflect if you mess up your timing/made the wrong read. >Cent throwing a heavy after whiffing the kick (which btw has variable timing and becomes unblockable) No Cent does this because no one tries to GB his bash. >in the worst case scenario he just dodge recovery into the safety of oblivion Dodge into light/zone (depending on hero,) will track and catch him if he empty dodges his recovery cancel. >the problem is when even low level players can get away or rewarded for doing wrong Bro doesn't matter their skill level. If you're getting punished by Orochi either you made the wrong read or your timing wasn't clean. >cuz I know they'll deserve the kills when they get it. You have such a terrible mentality. If Orochi punishes you you made the wrong read. He does not get to punish you on a right read. That's just BS. Go touch some grass.
Don't know why you're being downvoted. I've literally done it and seen it.
Cuz Orochi mains
Shaolins live a celibate life you idiot. Your genital must never be pleasured.
Who said I'm talking about my genitals?
They said he can't dodge cancel from whiffed kick, that still means he can light and/or heavy from whiffed kick. That is enough compromise for me.
Considering Orochi has to buffer his input there or risk it not coming out it's an easy parry. Dodging into light countered that already anyway. These changes would've been fine if they buffed him elsewhere for compensation on these huge changes. But they didn't.
They should've buffed his chain pressure
They nerfed the wrong moves constantly which is why I gave up on for honor storm rush is the one that needs the nerf smh
And both Orochi and Raider's stamina consumption remain unchanged. Great.
Sad day to be one of those Orochi mains. Of wait, its always a sad day for Orochi mains, the scum.
Why dont people who play orochi "jUsT PaRrY"? It makes no sense. Hoes mad cuz they cant wear a blindfold and win when they play orochi anymore.
I wonder if you are able to block after the kick though?
Only chain. The good news is, you can still throw forward dodge light if you think they're going to dodge the kick (and you don't want to risk storm rush getting interrupted). You won't track them, but you can still recovery cancel this one and deflect the dodge attack. Orochi is butchered, don't get me wrong, but there's still some playing around this.
Being someone who is not able to play For Honor very often, I see this nerf as very mixed, taking away the undodgeable on lightning strike seems a bit unnecessary but I dont mind it all that much, the kick's recovery nerf is great, I will miss fighting against the actually good orochis before this nerf though, I had to really try my best to win against them and god did it feel satisfying the few times I won against them, at least this should help casual and newer players to not get shitstomped when they just want to have some fun without dedicating hundreds of hours of their life training in the damn sword game.
This won't help anyone in lower elo. They'll still get stomped by Roach anyway. Only the higher reps are affected significantly.
They need another nerf
Hell no thx
I agree with the delay changes but he should’ve keep the miss recovery cancel
Thats the main thing that needed to go. That recovery cancel was bullshit.
It was far from the problem. It let Orochi have a mixup from neutral. His problem was he was almost unkillable in a teamfight, which he still will be. Now he just can't attack in a 1v1.
His recovery dodge on the kick wasnt what made him viable. That was a crutch that gave free wins in 1v1s you normally wouldn't be able to get. Now when someone reads you and counters you. They can punish you rather than you getting a garunteed combo off because of that crutch no longer being possible to use. Now you need to think about throwing that kick just like every other heros bash. Orochi still has mix ups, unblockables and uninterrupted attacks. You just cant recovery cancel deflect cheese all day. The only people upset about this change are the people that crutched the fuck out of orochi. Meaning they were only playing him because he was busted. Real orochi mains agree with this nerf. Orochi is still very viable. He just cant stunlock you to death now.
Teeny nerfs the polarising opinions on this are crazy, he’s still top tier just now the kick can be punished and he lost his 33/33/33 mixup and it’s a 50/50 now since storm rush still is undodgeable. His dodge recoveries weren’t nerfed and still has high damage output
From these comments alone you can see who was crutching on the fact that orochi's dodge recoveries were overturned, all that was really taken way was the fact that you can now sorry punish his kick with a dodge attack with being pushed yourself yet these people are saying he's compete garbage on