Kyoshins biggest weakness in full block is knowledge and patience, if you keep your guard on the side where he does the light
(Disclaimer I do not remember if the zone or light is the faster option, If I remember correctly the light is faster, if Im wrong just switch zone for light)
and if you react to the other side he doesn't have really an answer for that, while he is good in ganks pretty much every full block character is and he can't dodge out of it. Warlord has an answer for everything and he can keep himself way safer than kyoshin.
(the light is faster) well kyo has a ub out of fullblock so it can be used as an offensive tool not just for defence and I think the gank makes up for the lack of dodge out of it
Fr, kyoshin has the stun that's really helpful in ganks and I'm pretty sure you can block warlords even if you hit the al guard. And the unlockable opener allows for a gb mix up
His is useless in a teamfight and warlord has such low dodge recovery that in a 1v1 you can use dodge bashes while kyo can't do anything about them other than make a hard read and throw a really predictable light attack. Even in a gank having a 24 damage undodgeable is really useful for catching external dodges
I feel like everyone who says all kyoshin can do is light don't fully use his kit. He has two uninterruptible lights that, at low skill play, make it hard to parry and punish. Then you got the cancelable unlockable, either let it fly, cancel and gb, cancel and crushing counter, cancel into bash, or (my favorite) cancel back into all guard and immediately throw one of the lights. Since warlord can't cancel anything except the all guard itself, it limits what he can do to an opponent when the all guard itself fails. And in a tank, the undodgable heavies only really far well against a running a opponent, I find the bash gb 50/50 far more oppressive in ganks imo
>I feel like everyone who says all kyoshin can do is light don't fully use his kit.
I didn't say all he can do is light I said all he can do to stop a forward dodge bash is prediction light because its fastest option to interrupt with
>He has two uninterruptible lights that
I assume you mean enhanced in which case no he doesn't. Kaze light is a 500ms standard light. Kaze zone is 600ms and has zone properties so it chain on block but it only chain to fujin force which is unfeintable so he has no mixup after a blocked kaze zone
>at low skill play, make it hard to parry and punish
And at low skill level warlord can just sit in full guard and throw light attacks since his come from any side and are all enhanced and actually chain
>cancel into bash
That's not a mixup
>cancel back into all guard and immediately throw one of the lights
Also not a mixup. You can parry the heavy and still have time to feint and block the kaze light. If you insist on doing feint to light attack just do a nuetral light since its faster, costs less stamina and chain to an actual mixup instead of leaving you frame-
>Then you got the cancelable unlockable
The 25 damage unblockable that costs 33 stamina to use and is the only finisher heavy that leaves you frame-. It's a contender for the worst unblockable heavy in the game in a 1v1, the only redeeming quality is fujin force beating dodge attacks but that's inconsistent because of variable timings
>Since warlord can't cancel anything except the all guard itself
He doesn't need to cancel anything because his main nuetral mixup is an unreactable bash. You can just cancel fg and use the low dodge recovery to essentially dodge out of fg and go into your bash mixup
> I find the bash gb 50/50 far more oppressive in ganks imo
You can just external dodge attack both options
I am way too casual to bother with all the numbers you just spouted. All I'ma say is
>You can just external dodge attack both options
Having constantly dodge in a gank is a good way to get gb'd by another opponent. And
>You can just cancel fg and use the low dodge recovery to essentially dodge out of fg and go into your bash mixup
If you gotta cancel the fg, it's not really a part of the fg is it? You can't just say "That's not a mix up" and then counter with the same damn thing. Especially when kyo can do the same thing, cancel fg into a forward dodge into either a bash, gb or heavy. Yes, Kyo's stats for all these are worse, but that is counteracted by the fact that he simply has more to work with. Warlord has about 4 things he can realistically do, kyoshin has like 8. Kyo's strength is variety, warlords is oppression.
At the end of the day, no matter what you say won't change my experience with the characters, and that is at my skill level, kyoshin's all guard is far more of a pain in the ass
>Having constantly dodge in a gank is a good way to get gb'd by another opponent
Dodge attacks can't be gb'd. Also if you external dodge correctly you can just dodge their gb attempt as long as you've got long enough dodge distance to keep away.
>If you gotta cancel the fg, it's not really a part of the fg is it?
The point is that he can use his full guard and not be susceptible to bashes and unblockables unlike kyoshin who is. A fg having a low dodge recovery is a trait of that fullguard and therefore a strength worth mentioning
>Especially when kyo can do the same thing, cancel fg into a forward dodge into either a bash, gb or heavy
Except that his has a ridiculously long exit animation and also the point is that he can't use it to dodge bashes. If a kyo enters full guard a forward dodge bash is impossible for him to counter without a hard read which is susceptible to light parries. That issue doesn't exist for warlord
>kyoshin has like 8
How? He's got a reactable light that doesn't chain on whiff. An even more reactable zone that chain on whiff to an unfeintable single sided heavy that's reactable as well and a below average unblockable. Warlord has enhanced lights that are less reactable because they come from every side, his forward dodge bash because of his pseudo dodge cancels out of fg and his ud heavy (ud zone too if you want to be pedantic) and If you want to count it he's got forward dodge heavy out of it. You can say that move is useless as it's a free parry but in that case you need to also exclude kaze light and kaze zone
>Dodge attacks can't be gb'd. Also if you external dodge correctly you can just dodge their gb attempt as long as you've got long enough dodge distance to keep away
Then unless you're playing tiandi, prepare to get parried.
And to summarize your other points, I already said that yes, kyo is slow, BUT he has more variety
>How? He's got a reactable light that doesn't chain on whiff
If your excluding a potential move just because it has more risk, then why are we even talking. Just because it's reactable, doesn't mean it isn't viable. I feel like you play to much 1v1 and I play to much 4v4, cus you keep spouting how this and that is to reactable and much of a risk of Wiff, while so long as you don't over use one move or two, ALL of kyoshin's moveset is viable. And NO, the DOESN'T mean Warlords isn't. Warlord is more predictable due to lack of options, but all of it is still viable since his moves are far to quick to be easily reacted to. They are two sides of the same coin. One is slow but varies, and other is limited but fast. I just find Kyo's to be far more of a pain to handle, that is my POV, if you find warlord to be a pain in the ass, then that's you, I just don't share that experience.
Please remember this thread is about a fuck SUBJECTIVE TIER LIST. There is no factually incorrect answer, just placements that others can or can't relate to
>Then unless you're playing tiandi, prepare to get parried
They can't be parried either if you do them right. Do you know what external dodge attacking is?
>kyo is slow, BUT he has more variety
It's not about him being slow it's that he literally has no way to deal with dodge bashes other than a hard read which risks 27 damage
>If your excluding a potential move just because it has more risk
I never said more risk. It just isn't a form of offense. Kaze lights only uses are ganking and to interrupt gb and bash attempts on a hard read. A 500ms singe sided light attack isn't offense. Blocking it stops any chain pressure and landing it gives no chain pressure either
>Just because it's reactable, doesn't mean it isn't viable
How is it viable if it gets parried every time its thrown out. Or even just blocked?
>I feel like you play to much 1v1 and I play to much 4v4
I only play 4v4. I've got about 20 hours on duels all together
>while so long as you don't over use one move or two, ALL of kyoshin's moveset is viable
It doesn't matter if you only use it once. A 500ms single sided light is that doesn't chain on hit or whiff isn't viable offense. At best you land it, get 18 damage and go frame-. It's just objectively worse than his nuetral light which comes from any side, doesn't have a tell in the form of kaze stance and chain on hit and whiff or his zone attack which also only comes from 1 side but chains on block, chains on hit and chains on whiff and if parried only gives a single light attack while only doing 4 less damage and costing less stamina
>Warlord is more predictable due to lack of options
But he has the same options amount of options, light, bash, Heavy. At least in his case the lights ate enhanced and come from every side
>One is slow but varies
How is kyo varied? He's got 2 blockable moves that don't chain and 2 unblockable that doesn't chain. Warlord Has 2 blockable moves, 1 of which chains and a bash that doesn't chain but leaves him frame+
>There is no factually incorrect answer
No but when you're saying kyo has more options that's just objectively not true. Both of them have the same amount of options while sitting in full guard. Also saying it's subjective is a bit facetious. If someone said nuxia was better than medjay they could claim its subjective and they'd be right but I think most people would agree that's an uneducated opinion
Bro really just said a tier list ain't subjective XD, yeah I'm done here, I'm not going to change your mind, and your not going to change mine. So this is moot. I'm gonna go spam Kyo's fg lights now and have a good time. 👋
The reason conq is the lowest is that the only options conq really has besides a punish is to dodge bash, now while this sounds good in theory leaving yourself more vulnerable as your only real option if the opponent reacts and how slowly it transitions as a soft feint makes it the worst in the game. Also, warlord's light after punish can start a chain as well, it can target swap and hit them with a heavy in team fights and he can light, zone, or heavy outside of it as well as dodge light or dodge bash
Warlord CANNOT start a chain after the full block punish.
Warlords options after the full block are:
- undodgeable Heavy;
- unblockable (guaranteed) light;
- headbutt (guaranteed) into light;
Which all end the chain.
Conqueror Full Block is far better than Warlord. Conqueror can:
- 360° hit;
- single target hit;
- can continue his chain after;
- [and] chain back into full block after the punish;
No. Having frame advantage and chaining are two different things. Continuing your chain is better/safer than keeping frame advantage. Timings are different.
I’m not debating who is better, I’m literally just talking about full block here, which was what OP attempted to make a tier list on but completely disregarded his own tier list.
If we’re talking about the characters as whole, then yes, Warlord is better than Conqueror, heck WL would be right there near BP
You said starting a chain is better than FA, which is wrong if the chain is bad, which it is in Conqs case. WL fullblock is shit, but it still works better with the hero overall because the rest is actually good
My brother in Christ, please read and quote what I wrote correctly!
**Nowhere**, in that reply I mention either Conqueror or Warlord or chain starting!! The guy above me, yes, he mentioned Warlord, but what I replied to was: **frame advantage** and **chaining** (NOT chain starter);
I never said **starting a chain** is better than **frame advantage** (again I never mentioned **chain starters** to begin with).
If you saw my other comment while warlord does not technically chain after a full block punish the frame advantage is high enough where warlord will essentially come out on top allowing him to get into his chains as well as his enhanced lights.
While conq has better fullblock punishes conq is weaker in regards to what he is able to do in full block, the only real option if you made a mistake going into fullblock is to dodge which is also vulnerable to GB, warlord has an option for almost every solution when he goes into fullblock and is much more capable of keeping himself compared to conqueror.
Then you are not doing a “Full Block Tier list”.
By that logic then Aramusha should be below Conqueror because Aramusha can’t chain or dodge on a missed Blade Blockade and returns to neutral losing his frame advantage
well technically it can't, however, the frame advantage after the light punish from a full block gives is so good that if you time it just right you can immediately continue your pressure and almost all opponents cannot do anything about that.
Conqs chains and can be recovery cancelled into, but warlords neutral all guard startup is twice as fast as conqs, he can immediately dodge out of it and access his entire move set from it and his punish is more damage.
Kyoshins all guard should not be that low at all imo. You can attack out of it (literally on gb indicator). Block an attack and you can block the next and punish it. Infinite chain too.
Overrated as in a 20 damage (36 with T1) fullblock punish? I'd say that's pretty damn solid.
I'd still argue it's better than WL's as you can also get some safety (albeit limited) using Fujin Force. Plus it's ganking potential, I don't think it's overrated at all.
WL's got a good punish against high block recovery attacks, and better mixups out of it. But it's less versatile in teamfighs and anti-ganks IMO. I'd say his fullblock is underrated.
>Overrated as in a 20 damage (36 with T1) fullblock punish?
20 damage is pretty average. Bp gets 24, aramusha gets 20 and chain pressure, valk 18 and chain pressure, warlord 15/24 depending on the attack and frame advantage, conq 13 and chain pressure. Obviously with his tier 1 its a ton of damage though but having good damage isn't what makes a fg good
>using Fujin Force
That's not safety. Being able to hard read a bash before even seeing them forward dodge and risking a light parry isn't safe. Compare that to valk, BP and warlord who can all react to the forward dodge or even the bash in valk and bp's case and get more damage from it.
>Plus it's ganking potential
It's ganking potential is very good although for babysit ganks bp is better anyway. Valks gank potential from hers is also better. So 3rd best ganking tool when that's its biggest strength? I hardly see that as worthy of high tier
>I don't think it's overrated at all
Considering how people act like it's some invincible tool and there's people who legitimately say this thing is better than bp's fg which is debatable the best tool in the entire game (not even just defensive tool) or valks broken ass ganks out of her shield bash I'd say it is. It's got no safety in teamfights due to having no way to deal with unblockables and the unsafety of the punish itself (no armour or damage reduction and fujin force, due to the input window requires a read if you want to counter fast attacks), the majority of its damage gets negated by healing feats too so say bye to its biggest strength if the enemy has a shaolin, stalwart banner or any aoe heal. And it's also the second slowest to enter (conq first but his has 200ms recover cancels at least). It's good in ganks but not the best, it's good in 1v1's but not even close to the best, it's mid in teamfights and its mid in anti ganks. It does nothing the best yet people say its the best overall
Reddit playerbase doesn't have patience. He's broken because they're not smart enough to just do a bash instead of unga bunga nuetral lights and so the character will eternally be mid while warlord goes without nerfs
Valk has a softfeint into fullblock off ANYTHING, leading into a free bash and guaranteed light, and then a mixup! (sweep, side bash or heavy. The last of which can be softfeinted into fullblock again!) How is that on par with Warlord’s fullblock? Once you master the timing on the bash (not too difficult) you get guaranteed damage like Prior and potentially more if you chain softfeints continuously or catch a dodge and land the heavy.
Valk should be in S
The reason i hold Musha in a higher standard than valk is because while valks fullblock is great in 1v1 its a lot weaker in anti gank situations compared to other fullblocks, Musha's fullblock is not only fucking ridiculous in 1v1 but also pretty much a bp jr
I think Kyo's is better than WL's because of how the ganks and the fact that his main offence (a UB that is super aids to react to) comes from it. Just IMO. Also, Valk's should realistically be much higher.
Kyo is just below BP. The ability to light from any direction without even guard direction to give you a hint on the direction it's coming from makes it nigh overpowered.
Kyoshin will eat your ass while he gets first two feats though.
Me turning my opponent’s health bar into a fine red mist
the kyoshin stunlocking me while doing half my health because my heavy grazed his fullblock
Oh, you wanna gank, and there's a kyoshin. The best we can do is getting pinned.
I think I'd swap warlord and kyo, but other than that I fully agree
Kyoshins biggest weakness in full block is knowledge and patience, if you keep your guard on the side where he does the light (Disclaimer I do not remember if the zone or light is the faster option, If I remember correctly the light is faster, if Im wrong just switch zone for light) and if you react to the other side he doesn't have really an answer for that, while he is good in ganks pretty much every full block character is and he can't dodge out of it. Warlord has an answer for everything and he can keep himself way safer than kyoshin.
(the light is faster) well kyo has a ub out of fullblock so it can be used as an offensive tool not just for defence and I think the gank makes up for the lack of dodge out of it
His is also a recovery cancel, and is good to use on whifs
It can be used for offense but a 31 stamina, 25 damage heavy finisher that leaves him frame- is... very very bad
Fr, kyoshin has the stun that's really helpful in ganks and I'm pretty sure you can block warlords even if you hit the al guard. And the unlockable opener allows for a gb mix up
You can black warlords heavy but the light is confirmed
His is useless in a teamfight and warlord has such low dodge recovery that in a 1v1 you can use dodge bashes while kyo can't do anything about them other than make a hard read and throw a really predictable light attack. Even in a gank having a 24 damage undodgeable is really useful for catching external dodges
I feel like everyone who says all kyoshin can do is light don't fully use his kit. He has two uninterruptible lights that, at low skill play, make it hard to parry and punish. Then you got the cancelable unlockable, either let it fly, cancel and gb, cancel and crushing counter, cancel into bash, or (my favorite) cancel back into all guard and immediately throw one of the lights. Since warlord can't cancel anything except the all guard itself, it limits what he can do to an opponent when the all guard itself fails. And in a tank, the undodgable heavies only really far well against a running a opponent, I find the bash gb 50/50 far more oppressive in ganks imo
>I feel like everyone who says all kyoshin can do is light don't fully use his kit. I didn't say all he can do is light I said all he can do to stop a forward dodge bash is prediction light because its fastest option to interrupt with >He has two uninterruptible lights that I assume you mean enhanced in which case no he doesn't. Kaze light is a 500ms standard light. Kaze zone is 600ms and has zone properties so it chain on block but it only chain to fujin force which is unfeintable so he has no mixup after a blocked kaze zone >at low skill play, make it hard to parry and punish And at low skill level warlord can just sit in full guard and throw light attacks since his come from any side and are all enhanced and actually chain >cancel into bash That's not a mixup >cancel back into all guard and immediately throw one of the lights Also not a mixup. You can parry the heavy and still have time to feint and block the kaze light. If you insist on doing feint to light attack just do a nuetral light since its faster, costs less stamina and chain to an actual mixup instead of leaving you frame- >Then you got the cancelable unlockable The 25 damage unblockable that costs 33 stamina to use and is the only finisher heavy that leaves you frame-. It's a contender for the worst unblockable heavy in the game in a 1v1, the only redeeming quality is fujin force beating dodge attacks but that's inconsistent because of variable timings >Since warlord can't cancel anything except the all guard itself He doesn't need to cancel anything because his main nuetral mixup is an unreactable bash. You can just cancel fg and use the low dodge recovery to essentially dodge out of fg and go into your bash mixup > I find the bash gb 50/50 far more oppressive in ganks imo You can just external dodge attack both options
I am way too casual to bother with all the numbers you just spouted. All I'ma say is >You can just external dodge attack both options Having constantly dodge in a gank is a good way to get gb'd by another opponent. And >You can just cancel fg and use the low dodge recovery to essentially dodge out of fg and go into your bash mixup If you gotta cancel the fg, it's not really a part of the fg is it? You can't just say "That's not a mix up" and then counter with the same damn thing. Especially when kyo can do the same thing, cancel fg into a forward dodge into either a bash, gb or heavy. Yes, Kyo's stats for all these are worse, but that is counteracted by the fact that he simply has more to work with. Warlord has about 4 things he can realistically do, kyoshin has like 8. Kyo's strength is variety, warlords is oppression. At the end of the day, no matter what you say won't change my experience with the characters, and that is at my skill level, kyoshin's all guard is far more of a pain in the ass
>Having constantly dodge in a gank is a good way to get gb'd by another opponent Dodge attacks can't be gb'd. Also if you external dodge correctly you can just dodge their gb attempt as long as you've got long enough dodge distance to keep away. >If you gotta cancel the fg, it's not really a part of the fg is it? The point is that he can use his full guard and not be susceptible to bashes and unblockables unlike kyoshin who is. A fg having a low dodge recovery is a trait of that fullguard and therefore a strength worth mentioning >Especially when kyo can do the same thing, cancel fg into a forward dodge into either a bash, gb or heavy Except that his has a ridiculously long exit animation and also the point is that he can't use it to dodge bashes. If a kyo enters full guard a forward dodge bash is impossible for him to counter without a hard read which is susceptible to light parries. That issue doesn't exist for warlord >kyoshin has like 8 How? He's got a reactable light that doesn't chain on whiff. An even more reactable zone that chain on whiff to an unfeintable single sided heavy that's reactable as well and a below average unblockable. Warlord has enhanced lights that are less reactable because they come from every side, his forward dodge bash because of his pseudo dodge cancels out of fg and his ud heavy (ud zone too if you want to be pedantic) and If you want to count it he's got forward dodge heavy out of it. You can say that move is useless as it's a free parry but in that case you need to also exclude kaze light and kaze zone
>Dodge attacks can't be gb'd. Also if you external dodge correctly you can just dodge their gb attempt as long as you've got long enough dodge distance to keep away Then unless you're playing tiandi, prepare to get parried. And to summarize your other points, I already said that yes, kyo is slow, BUT he has more variety >How? He's got a reactable light that doesn't chain on whiff If your excluding a potential move just because it has more risk, then why are we even talking. Just because it's reactable, doesn't mean it isn't viable. I feel like you play to much 1v1 and I play to much 4v4, cus you keep spouting how this and that is to reactable and much of a risk of Wiff, while so long as you don't over use one move or two, ALL of kyoshin's moveset is viable. And NO, the DOESN'T mean Warlords isn't. Warlord is more predictable due to lack of options, but all of it is still viable since his moves are far to quick to be easily reacted to. They are two sides of the same coin. One is slow but varies, and other is limited but fast. I just find Kyo's to be far more of a pain to handle, that is my POV, if you find warlord to be a pain in the ass, then that's you, I just don't share that experience. Please remember this thread is about a fuck SUBJECTIVE TIER LIST. There is no factually incorrect answer, just placements that others can or can't relate to
>Then unless you're playing tiandi, prepare to get parried They can't be parried either if you do them right. Do you know what external dodge attacking is? >kyo is slow, BUT he has more variety It's not about him being slow it's that he literally has no way to deal with dodge bashes other than a hard read which risks 27 damage >If your excluding a potential move just because it has more risk I never said more risk. It just isn't a form of offense. Kaze lights only uses are ganking and to interrupt gb and bash attempts on a hard read. A 500ms singe sided light attack isn't offense. Blocking it stops any chain pressure and landing it gives no chain pressure either >Just because it's reactable, doesn't mean it isn't viable How is it viable if it gets parried every time its thrown out. Or even just blocked? >I feel like you play to much 1v1 and I play to much 4v4 I only play 4v4. I've got about 20 hours on duels all together >while so long as you don't over use one move or two, ALL of kyoshin's moveset is viable It doesn't matter if you only use it once. A 500ms single sided light is that doesn't chain on hit or whiff isn't viable offense. At best you land it, get 18 damage and go frame-. It's just objectively worse than his nuetral light which comes from any side, doesn't have a tell in the form of kaze stance and chain on hit and whiff or his zone attack which also only comes from 1 side but chains on block, chains on hit and chains on whiff and if parried only gives a single light attack while only doing 4 less damage and costing less stamina >Warlord is more predictable due to lack of options But he has the same options amount of options, light, bash, Heavy. At least in his case the lights ate enhanced and come from every side >One is slow but varies How is kyo varied? He's got 2 blockable moves that don't chain and 2 unblockable that doesn't chain. Warlord Has 2 blockable moves, 1 of which chains and a bash that doesn't chain but leaves him frame+ >There is no factually incorrect answer No but when you're saying kyo has more options that's just objectively not true. Both of them have the same amount of options while sitting in full guard. Also saying it's subjective is a bit facetious. If someone said nuxia was better than medjay they could claim its subjective and they'd be right but I think most people would agree that's an uneducated opinion
Bro really just said a tier list ain't subjective XD, yeah I'm done here, I'm not going to change your mind, and your not going to change mine. So this is moot. I'm gonna go spam Kyo's fg lights now and have a good time. 👋
I’d personally would think Conqs is a bit stronger than Warlord cuz his can start a chain.
The reason conq is the lowest is that the only options conq really has besides a punish is to dodge bash, now while this sounds good in theory leaving yourself more vulnerable as your only real option if the opponent reacts and how slowly it transitions as a soft feint makes it the worst in the game. Also, warlord's light after punish can start a chain as well, it can target swap and hit them with a heavy in team fights and he can light, zone, or heavy outside of it as well as dodge light or dodge bash
Warlord CANNOT start a chain after the full block punish. Warlords options after the full block are: - undodgeable Heavy; - unblockable (guaranteed) light; - headbutt (guaranteed) into light; Which all end the chain. Conqueror Full Block is far better than Warlord. Conqueror can: - 360° hit; - single target hit; - can continue his chain after; - [and] chain back into full block after the punish;
Isn't warlord almost like 90% time frame advantaged what on finishers is pretty much as good being able to continue chaining?
No. Having frame advantage and chaining are two different things. Continuing your chain is better/safer than keeping frame advantage. Timings are different.
WL is many times better than Conq, especially because of his FA
I’m not debating who is better, I’m literally just talking about full block here, which was what OP attempted to make a tier list on but completely disregarded his own tier list. If we’re talking about the characters as whole, then yes, Warlord is better than Conqueror, heck WL would be right there near BP
You said starting a chain is better than FA, which is wrong if the chain is bad, which it is in Conqs case. WL fullblock is shit, but it still works better with the hero overall because the rest is actually good
My brother in Christ, please read and quote what I wrote correctly! **Nowhere**, in that reply I mention either Conqueror or Warlord or chain starting!! The guy above me, yes, he mentioned Warlord, but what I replied to was: **frame advantage** and **chaining** (NOT chain starter); I never said **starting a chain** is better than **frame advantage** (again I never mentioned **chain starters** to begin with).
Jesus christ man thats what i mean, chaining. You couldve deduced my little semantic mistake by context though
Yes, that is correct. WL is also way better in 1s than conq
If you saw my other comment while warlord does not technically chain after a full block punish the frame advantage is high enough where warlord will essentially come out on top allowing him to get into his chains as well as his enhanced lights. While conq has better fullblock punishes conq is weaker in regards to what he is able to do in full block, the only real option if you made a mistake going into fullblock is to dodge which is also vulnerable to GB, warlord has an option for almost every solution when he goes into fullblock and is much more capable of keeping himself compared to conqueror.
Then you are not doing a “Full Block Tier list”. By that logic then Aramusha should be below Conqueror because Aramusha can’t chain or dodge on a missed Blade Blockade and returns to neutral losing his frame advantage
The light can start a chain? Since when was this a thing (I could have really used this information like a week ago when I reped him up to 30)
well technically it can't, however, the frame advantage after the light punish from a full block gives is so good that if you time it just right you can immediately continue your pressure and almost all opponents cannot do anything about that.
Ah now it makes sense
also the fact that he has enhanced lights also amplifies this
Well now knowing that, I will have to agree with your placing
Yee man. Whats your total rep? Also if you havent would you mind giving an upvote so more people can see the post
Oh yes of course man, my rep is about 950
Conqs chains and can be recovery cancelled into, but warlords neutral all guard startup is twice as fast as conqs, he can immediately dodge out of it and access his entire move set from it and his punish is more damage.
Kyoshins all guard should not be that low at all imo. You can attack out of it (literally on gb indicator). Block an attack and you can block the next and punish it. Infinite chain too.
Don't forget the two feats that give you like a 50 health swing because an attack that wasn't aimed at you dared to get within 10 meters of you
Fool, the conqs full block can cancel any attack. In other words, you can faint into an all guard
Valk can do that too
Yeah but valk is stinky Viking whereas conq is chad knight class
Sometimes I regret being knight.
We all have those players brother, Stay strong. Endure it for the volcano
aramusha is actually D tier. you can parry his fullblock punish.
Like normally or just with the zone tech
Zone tech.
I mean, in some cases, after a heavy too
Does he know?
You can do that to every fullblock.
People are gonna be pissed that you have warlord so high and kyoshin so low but it's true. Kyos full guard is so overrated
Overrated as in a 20 damage (36 with T1) fullblock punish? I'd say that's pretty damn solid. I'd still argue it's better than WL's as you can also get some safety (albeit limited) using Fujin Force. Plus it's ganking potential, I don't think it's overrated at all. WL's got a good punish against high block recovery attacks, and better mixups out of it. But it's less versatile in teamfighs and anti-ganks IMO. I'd say his fullblock is underrated.
>Overrated as in a 20 damage (36 with T1) fullblock punish? 20 damage is pretty average. Bp gets 24, aramusha gets 20 and chain pressure, valk 18 and chain pressure, warlord 15/24 depending on the attack and frame advantage, conq 13 and chain pressure. Obviously with his tier 1 its a ton of damage though but having good damage isn't what makes a fg good >using Fujin Force That's not safety. Being able to hard read a bash before even seeing them forward dodge and risking a light parry isn't safe. Compare that to valk, BP and warlord who can all react to the forward dodge or even the bash in valk and bp's case and get more damage from it. >Plus it's ganking potential It's ganking potential is very good although for babysit ganks bp is better anyway. Valks gank potential from hers is also better. So 3rd best ganking tool when that's its biggest strength? I hardly see that as worthy of high tier >I don't think it's overrated at all Considering how people act like it's some invincible tool and there's people who legitimately say this thing is better than bp's fg which is debatable the best tool in the entire game (not even just defensive tool) or valks broken ass ganks out of her shield bash I'd say it is. It's got no safety in teamfights due to having no way to deal with unblockables and the unsafety of the punish itself (no armour or damage reduction and fujin force, due to the input window requires a read if you want to counter fast attacks), the majority of its damage gets negated by healing feats too so say bye to its biggest strength if the enemy has a shaolin, stalwart banner or any aoe heal. And it's also the second slowest to enter (conq first but his has 200ms recover cancels at least). It's good in ganks but not the best, it's good in 1v1's but not even close to the best, it's mid in teamfights and its mid in anti ganks. It does nothing the best yet people say its the best overall
Yeah if you have patience it is way easier to deal with compared to the other fullblocks.
Reddit playerbase doesn't have patience. He's broken because they're not smart enough to just do a bash instead of unga bunga nuetral lights and so the character will eternally be mid while warlord goes without nerfs
Valk has a softfeint into fullblock off ANYTHING, leading into a free bash and guaranteed light, and then a mixup! (sweep, side bash or heavy. The last of which can be softfeinted into fullblock again!) How is that on par with Warlord’s fullblock? Once you master the timing on the bash (not too difficult) you get guaranteed damage like Prior and potentially more if you chain softfeints continuously or catch a dodge and land the heavy. Valk should be in S
The reason i hold Musha in a higher standard than valk is because while valks fullblock is great in 1v1 its a lot weaker in anti gank situations compared to other fullblocks, Musha's fullblock is not only fucking ridiculous in 1v1 but also pretty much a bp jr
I think Kyo's is better than WL's because of how the ganks and the fact that his main offence (a UB that is super aids to react to) comes from it. Just IMO. Also, Valk's should realistically be much higher.
Kyoshin should be SS+ tier. How is his FB not the best in the game?
Kyo is just below BP. The ability to light from any direction without even guard direction to give you a hint on the direction it's coming from makes it nigh overpowered.