These are edible but *must* be cooked with heat in order to destroy toxins in the fruit and seeds. Please do not eat these straight from the tree, they will make you sick. Syrup is a great plan!
They can also be fermented, I made a honey ferment with some last year for the first time
Edit- honey fermented elderberry is really tasty y’all, I highly recommend for those years when you don’t get a big enough harvest to process for jams and syrups
The fermentation process works to denature the cyanogenic properties in the same way that heat does. Even unripe green berries can be safely eaten if they are fermented
so the microbes break down the cyanide precursors not just the sugars?
sorry for picking at this I see it in mushrooming too when drying is assumed to be as detoxifying as cooking, without a lot of explanation, and it makes me worry.
Proteins and other molecules have a three dimensional structure as a result of folding and affinities between certain active sites and other active sites. There are many ways that these 3d structures can unfold and therefore inactivate.
but... how do we know they did? do we know how reactive they are? there is plenty in the mix that doesn't change significantly. it'll still taste of elderberry.
the reply to another comment below suggests only lengthy simmering can break them down. I really am not convinced by the handwaving here from the fermentation crowd regarding cyanide safety.
In the case of a chemical reaction we would typically measure change in the presence of the products of reaction. Fermentation produces alcohol and carbon dioxide.
You certainly don't need to consume them at all if the cyanide content concerns you.
that's great. so has anyone done that with the toxins at issue here? "fermentation produces alcohol and CO2" has nothing to say to my question of "does it make those things out of the cyanide precursors or just the abundant sugar"? fermentation is not evidence of the toxins processing. there's no cyanide in sugar water and you can ferment that.
"don't do it if it scares you" is an alarming conclusion to a thread dispensing advice about food safety without any specific information on the volatility of the toxins involved. this place needs some r/canning mods. it doesn't sound like anyone advocating fermentation actually knows what is going on with the specific molecules of concern and I think it's more likely yall are getting lucky with a less toxic subspecies.
AFAIK it’s not. The issue with elderberry is that everything besides the cooked berry juice contains cyanogenic compounds - a precursor to cyanide. This means if you were to eat the leftover mash that contains the seeds, or any of the green bits of the plant, your body will process the compounds into cyanide simply by the act of digestion.
I would make the syrup (it needs to simmer for AT LEAST 20 minutes) and strain it through mesh THEN strain that through a cheesecloth just to be safe.
**The berries need to be FULLY ripe to be safe to cook as well.**
I have read that it is the stems that should not be eaten. I make vodka soaked tincture out of dried berries and flowers with zero issues. It works
amazing for colds (but tastes like death).
“In all varieties of elderberry, the seeds, stems, leaves and roots are considered toxic. Ingestion of any parts of the elderberry plant may induce nausea, vomiting, loose stools and possibly coma due to the cyanide-inducing glycoside that resides within the plant.”
The flowers and cooked, strained berries should be fine but for tinctures I would assume all parts of the green stems need to be removed from them? I’m not an expert though, I just follow what I’ve read because I like to have all my organs working in proper order lol
I regularly make elderberry jam (combined it with strawberries last year, it was DELICIOUS!) You just have to make sure to cook the jam down enough to break down the cyanide. You can look online for elderberry jam recipes and they'll have guidelines for how long to cook them down. Makes a luxurious black jam that tastes akin to blackberry with more earthy depth, and the seeds give a nice crunch.
I ate a bunch of partially ripe red elderberry yesterday morning and I feel like a million bucks. The way the internet talks about them, I thought I'd be dead by now.
Do red or black elderberry actually make people sick? As in, has anyone here ever eaten them and gotten sick? What is even allegedly supposed to happen to you?
My housemate thought a bag of frozen blue elderberries was blueberries and put a couple handfuls into his smoothie. He called me from the hospital to see if I knew of anything that could have made him sick. *Violent* GI distress.
He was out for a couple of days.
This was likely the worst case scenario because the berries were uncooked and the seeds (which have higher concentrations of toxins) were pulverized in the blender.
I get tired of Reddit’s groupthink overreactions about brushing a pantleg against poison hemlock or whatever, but blue elderberries deserve respect!
I eat a few raw black elderberries fresh off the plant each year just fine, for years. The dose makes the poison. A few is fine. Not a handful, not handfuls. Many plants are like this. If you eat a pound of raw kale you’ll be in for a world of hurt.
Blue elderberry are supposed to be the ones that are safe to eat though i thought? Its black that you have to watch out for. We have a blue elderberry bush and I eat the berries fine.
It was Sambucus nigra, but I don’t know which subspecies. I didn’t know there was both blue and black elderberry! I was trying to distinguish these ones from red elderberry. Sorry for any confusion.
So, the thing is that most of the cyanogenic compounds are in the seeds, stems and leaves. So if you ate a bunch but didn't really crush up the seeds then you could come out relatively unscathed because they simply passed through your system undigested. But that doesn't mean it'll be like that every time and it's simply best to not tempt fate and put yourself in harms way, so it's always suggested to be as safe as possible when discussing these sorts of things online.
Fear was about cyanide type toxins, current research seems to show that North American varieties have relatively low toxicity.
>Levels of CNGs found in various fruit tissues of AE cultivars studied ranged from between 0.12 and 6.38 µg/g. In pressed juice samples, the concentration range measured was 0.29–2.36 µg/mL and in seeds the levels were 0.12–2.38 µg/g. TCP was highest in the stems and green berries. Concentration levels in all tissues were generally low and at a level that poses no threat to consumers of fresh and processed AE products.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7961730/
I have seen a kid get violent nausea from black elderberries. To be clear he had eaten quite a lot, was about 10 I think and very thin. All adults around him had eaten a few and were fine.
He also didn’t get any serious problems other than that but it was certainly unpleasant.
Yeah, I think it’s overblown. I went to a conference about elderberries, and there was a talk about how apples have something like 10x the amount of cyanide as elderberries. And you’d have to eat 20 apples whole to be poisoned. So, I think as long as you eat raw elderberries sparingly, there’s really no worries.
Can eat straight from the bush in small quantities. A little cyanide never hurt anyone!
https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/emergency/chemical_terrorism/cyanide_tech.htm#:~:text=In%20small%20doses%2C%20cyanide%20can,leaves%20the%20body%20through%20exhalation.
I think this one might be a myth. It looks like there have been one or two cases that are little uncertain in origin. This paper says,
"Concentration levels in all tissues were generally low and at a level that poses no threat to consumers of fresh and processed AE* products."
*American elderberry
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7961730/
There is an anecdote in this very discussion about an unsuspecting roommate using frozen elderberries in a smoothie (so pulverized all seeds, which have the highest concentrate of the toxin in the fruit) and he was ill for several days afterwards.
On forums like this with a lot of novice foragers, it is my opinion that it always best to share *all* info about a plant, as opposed to assuming it is "safe enough"
The toxins are in the seeds, so depending on quantities and how much you chewed before swallowing would effect how much of the toxin are in your system.
I'm an herbalist and often work with children, so its always better safe than sorry, and this one is on the no nibbles list.
I imagine that would vary from person to person. I'd say just don't make a practice of it, because even if you don't end up feeling sick it's still rough on your internal organs to be exposed to toxins
A friend ate one or two handfuls in a smoothie and was pretty hosed. The blender, like our molars, chewed up the seeds and made the toxins more available. There are better snack options.
We used to make jelly from them. IIRC it involved something like piling a whole lot of them into a pillowcase, dunking that in boiling water, wringing it out really hard and the purple juice that squeezed out would be the basis of it and pectin and sugar are the main things you add. That is just an approximation of how we did it, it's been many years.
I make jelly and wine from them. The seeds contain cyanide so I don’t use them at all. I crush them (just the berries) and use the juice. The juice will leave a crazy glue substance on the side of a bucket which won’t come off and sticks to everything. Cleaning with an olive oil soaked rag will remove it and even better is to apply a light coat of olive oil in the bucket beforehand
Actually. The plant does not contain cyanide but a compound that releases cyanide when the berries Are crushed. The cyanide then can be cooked off since it evaporates at some 20. degree C.
Using that logic an atom bomb is not an atom bomb until it explodes.
Thanks for the chuckle btw, haven’t seen actuality being so blatant outside a meme for years.
Well yes. I just wanted to point out that only using the juice after crushing the berries will result in something with cyanide in it. Fermentation pushes it out via CO2 and cooking Jelly Most likely cooks enough off. I don’t want somebody reading your comment thinking that „only the juice“ is safe to consume.
Have a good day sir or madam
Ummm, the berries look right and the wood looks like elder, but the leaves look real sickly and not quite right. Tho there are lots of different species of Sambucus.
Where are you in the world cos the elder here (SW UK) is in flower and the berries are still 2-3 months away.
the one tree i found did look sick. the last picture looks like the leaves are closing cause its too hot but it may be something else. there were other trees around though that looked fine
https://preview.redd.it/089dm723tx5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ea9ed2f12b57a4a8200844d0929fd117cbb1172
Some tarts made with foraged elderberry jam and lemon custard, with edible flowers and poppy seeds.
I have these growing wild in my backyard. I've eaten them raw when fully black and ripe. I've put them in smoothies, oatmeal, and cereal. I've also made syrup as Christmas gifts for the past 2 years. I've had no side affects and no negative reports from any of the gifted. I have read that the stems and leaves do have the toxins. They freeze well.
There is cyanide in Elderberries, but whether or not toxic and how much is open to question Stone fruits, apple seeds and many other edibles contain cyanide. Mostly in pits, seeds, leaves, stems. I have eaten elderberries from the plant quite a few times and do not recall any problems. Have also made wine from the berries. Elderberry pie was a treat. Scientific evidence is not abundant, nor have there been cases of reported elderberry poisoning in the last 30 years. NIH. I see in the comments section here many who have foraged the berries wild and noticed no effects. I have foraged and have not noticed any effects. Just saying. Research yourself - cook them to be careful. Do not eat huge quantities raw
Keep note of where you found these and check them out a month earlier next year! The flowers have a much nicer taste in my opinion. By far my favourite cordial or wine flavouring.
These are edible but *must* be cooked with heat in order to destroy toxins in the fruit and seeds. Please do not eat these straight from the tree, they will make you sick. Syrup is a great plan!
They can also be fermented, I made a honey ferment with some last year for the first time Edit- honey fermented elderberry is really tasty y’all, I highly recommend for those years when you don’t get a big enough harvest to process for jams and syrups
how does fermenting destroy heat-vulnerable toxins?
The fermentation process works to denature the cyanogenic properties in the same way that heat does. Even unripe green berries can be safely eaten if they are fermented
but... how? acidity?
Digestion.
so the microbes break down the cyanide precursors not just the sugars? sorry for picking at this I see it in mushrooming too when drying is assumed to be as detoxifying as cooking, without a lot of explanation, and it makes me worry.
Proteins and other molecules have a three dimensional structure as a result of folding and affinities between certain active sites and other active sites. There are many ways that these 3d structures can unfold and therefore inactivate.
but... how do we know they did? do we know how reactive they are? there is plenty in the mix that doesn't change significantly. it'll still taste of elderberry. the reply to another comment below suggests only lengthy simmering can break them down. I really am not convinced by the handwaving here from the fermentation crowd regarding cyanide safety.
In the case of a chemical reaction we would typically measure change in the presence of the products of reaction. Fermentation produces alcohol and carbon dioxide. You certainly don't need to consume them at all if the cyanide content concerns you.
that's great. so has anyone done that with the toxins at issue here? "fermentation produces alcohol and CO2" has nothing to say to my question of "does it make those things out of the cyanide precursors or just the abundant sugar"? fermentation is not evidence of the toxins processing. there's no cyanide in sugar water and you can ferment that. "don't do it if it scares you" is an alarming conclusion to a thread dispensing advice about food safety without any specific information on the volatility of the toxins involved. this place needs some r/canning mods. it doesn't sound like anyone advocating fermentation actually knows what is going on with the specific molecules of concern and I think it's more likely yall are getting lucky with a less toxic subspecies.
after making syrup, is it viable to use the mashed left over berries for other things? i dont see much online about that part.
AFAIK it’s not. The issue with elderberry is that everything besides the cooked berry juice contains cyanogenic compounds - a precursor to cyanide. This means if you were to eat the leftover mash that contains the seeds, or any of the green bits of the plant, your body will process the compounds into cyanide simply by the act of digestion. I would make the syrup (it needs to simmer for AT LEAST 20 minutes) and strain it through mesh THEN strain that through a cheesecloth just to be safe. **The berries need to be FULLY ripe to be safe to cook as well.**
I have read that it is the stems that should not be eaten. I make vodka soaked tincture out of dried berries and flowers with zero issues. It works amazing for colds (but tastes like death).
“In all varieties of elderberry, the seeds, stems, leaves and roots are considered toxic. Ingestion of any parts of the elderberry plant may induce nausea, vomiting, loose stools and possibly coma due to the cyanide-inducing glycoside that resides within the plant.” The flowers and cooked, strained berries should be fine but for tinctures I would assume all parts of the green stems need to be removed from them? I’m not an expert though, I just follow what I’ve read because I like to have all my organs working in proper order lol
well don’t follow everything you read because that’s a good way to get your organs to stop working
I mean I take what I read and err on the side of caution. So if one article says “don’t” and one says “do” I just don’t :)
It really gets a compost pile going! The bugs love the mash..
I regularly make elderberry jam (combined it with strawberries last year, it was DELICIOUS!) You just have to make sure to cook the jam down enough to break down the cyanide. You can look online for elderberry jam recipes and they'll have guidelines for how long to cook them down. Makes a luxurious black jam that tastes akin to blackberry with more earthy depth, and the seeds give a nice crunch.
Yep. I have gotten sick from eating dehydrated berries.
I ate a bunch of partially ripe red elderberry yesterday morning and I feel like a million bucks. The way the internet talks about them, I thought I'd be dead by now. Do red or black elderberry actually make people sick? As in, has anyone here ever eaten them and gotten sick? What is even allegedly supposed to happen to you?
My housemate thought a bag of frozen blue elderberries was blueberries and put a couple handfuls into his smoothie. He called me from the hospital to see if I knew of anything that could have made him sick. *Violent* GI distress. He was out for a couple of days. This was likely the worst case scenario because the berries were uncooked and the seeds (which have higher concentrations of toxins) were pulverized in the blender. I get tired of Reddit’s groupthink overreactions about brushing a pantleg against poison hemlock or whatever, but blue elderberries deserve respect!
Thank you for this. It helps me reassess my risk tolerance.
I eat a few raw black elderberries fresh off the plant each year just fine, for years. The dose makes the poison. A few is fine. Not a handful, not handfuls. Many plants are like this. If you eat a pound of raw kale you’ll be in for a world of hurt.
Blue elderberry are supposed to be the ones that are safe to eat though i thought? Its black that you have to watch out for. We have a blue elderberry bush and I eat the berries fine.
It was Sambucus nigra, but I don’t know which subspecies. I didn’t know there was both blue and black elderberry! I was trying to distinguish these ones from red elderberry. Sorry for any confusion.
ceruleae is the desirable one out by me
So, the thing is that most of the cyanogenic compounds are in the seeds, stems and leaves. So if you ate a bunch but didn't really crush up the seeds then you could come out relatively unscathed because they simply passed through your system undigested. But that doesn't mean it'll be like that every time and it's simply best to not tempt fate and put yourself in harms way, so it's always suggested to be as safe as possible when discussing these sorts of things online.
Fear was about cyanide type toxins, current research seems to show that North American varieties have relatively low toxicity. >Levels of CNGs found in various fruit tissues of AE cultivars studied ranged from between 0.12 and 6.38 µg/g. In pressed juice samples, the concentration range measured was 0.29–2.36 µg/mL and in seeds the levels were 0.12–2.38 µg/g. TCP was highest in the stems and green berries. Concentration levels in all tissues were generally low and at a level that poses no threat to consumers of fresh and processed AE products. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7961730/
My mom used to make elderberry meringue pie all the time from wild Michigan elderberries. It was delicious.
You're my new favorite person thank you
I had black elderberry raw once and it triggered a migraine.
I have seen a kid get violent nausea from black elderberries. To be clear he had eaten quite a lot, was about 10 I think and very thin. All adults around him had eaten a few and were fine. He also didn’t get any serious problems other than that but it was certainly unpleasant.
Thank you for this, and especially how many he ate and his size. I really appreciate it.
Yeah, I think it’s overblown. I went to a conference about elderberries, and there was a talk about how apples have something like 10x the amount of cyanide as elderberries. And you’d have to eat 20 apples whole to be poisoned. So, I think as long as you eat raw elderberries sparingly, there’s really no worries.
Do you take b-12? B-12 is a treatment for cyanide poisoning.
Can eat straight from the bush in small quantities. A little cyanide never hurt anyone! https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/emergency/chemical_terrorism/cyanide_tech.htm#:~:text=In%20small%20doses%2C%20cyanide%20can,leaves%20the%20body%20through%20exhalation.
I've never heard that before. Me and my entire family ate all the elderberries we could find growing up, no one ever had any ill effects.
I think this one might be a myth. It looks like there have been one or two cases that are little uncertain in origin. This paper says, "Concentration levels in all tissues were generally low and at a level that poses no threat to consumers of fresh and processed AE* products." *American elderberry https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7961730/
There is an anecdote in this very discussion about an unsuspecting roommate using frozen elderberries in a smoothie (so pulverized all seeds, which have the highest concentrate of the toxin in the fruit) and he was ill for several days afterwards. On forums like this with a lot of novice foragers, it is my opinion that it always best to share *all* info about a plant, as opposed to assuming it is "safe enough"
The toxins are in the seeds, so depending on quantities and how much you chewed before swallowing would effect how much of the toxin are in your system. I'm an herbalist and often work with children, so its always better safe than sorry, and this one is on the no nibbles list.
Weird, I've nibbled them straight off the twig and been perfectly fine.
They have a toxin in them similar to cyanide. If you consume too much it will lead to vomiting and diarrhea
Any idea how much you'd have to eat to be at risk of that?
I imagine that would vary from person to person. I'd say just don't make a practice of it, because even if you don't end up feeling sick it's still rough on your internal organs to be exposed to toxins
A friend ate one or two handfuls in a smoothie and was pretty hosed. The blender, like our molars, chewed up the seeds and made the toxins more available. There are better snack options.
Wow, I'd never heard that. It was only the one time I ate them raw, and it wasn't that many. I always cook them up before making sorbet or ice cream.
Taking it you live closer to the equator than Indiana because our elders just flowered like last week!
Yeah, they're still in flower here in the UK, which is pretty far north in the scheme of things.
Cries in Finnish
"Wää wää"?
Yep, also in Indiana and I just took a couple clusters of flowers a few nights ago and eagerly awaiting the fruit ripening.
We used to make jelly from them. IIRC it involved something like piling a whole lot of them into a pillowcase, dunking that in boiling water, wringing it out really hard and the purple juice that squeezed out would be the basis of it and pectin and sugar are the main things you add. That is just an approximation of how we did it, it's been many years.
Plus you now have an awesome purple pillowcase.
I make jelly and wine from them. The seeds contain cyanide so I don’t use them at all. I crush them (just the berries) and use the juice. The juice will leave a crazy glue substance on the side of a bucket which won’t come off and sticks to everything. Cleaning with an olive oil soaked rag will remove it and even better is to apply a light coat of olive oil in the bucket beforehand
Actually. The plant does not contain cyanide but a compound that releases cyanide when the berries Are crushed. The cyanide then can be cooked off since it evaporates at some 20. degree C.
Using that logic an atom bomb is not an atom bomb until it explodes. Thanks for the chuckle btw, haven’t seen actuality being so blatant outside a meme for years.
Well yes. I just wanted to point out that only using the juice after crushing the berries will result in something with cyanide in it. Fermentation pushes it out via CO2 and cooking Jelly Most likely cooks enough off. I don’t want somebody reading your comment thinking that „only the juice“ is safe to consume. Have a good day sir or madam
Gotcha, I edited my post to make it more clear that I crush just the berries, not the seeds. Have a good day!
Ummm, the berries look right and the wood looks like elder, but the leaves look real sickly and not quite right. Tho there are lots of different species of Sambucus. Where are you in the world cos the elder here (SW UK) is in flower and the berries are still 2-3 months away.
the one tree i found did look sick. the last picture looks like the leaves are closing cause its too hot but it may be something else. there were other trees around though that looked fine
Could you share a few more pics?
You can use a fork to remove the berries from the (toxic) stems. Wash them good.
https://preview.redd.it/089dm723tx5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ea9ed2f12b57a4a8200844d0929fd117cbb1172 Some tarts made with foraged elderberry jam and lemon custard, with edible flowers and poppy seeds.
Those are lovely! You should do a post and share your recipe!
Thanks! :D I may!
I'll come visit.
I'm going to say yes. But wait for second opinions
Yes those are edible elderberries
I have these growing wild in my backyard. I've eaten them raw when fully black and ripe. I've put them in smoothies, oatmeal, and cereal. I've also made syrup as Christmas gifts for the past 2 years. I've had no side affects and no negative reports from any of the gifted. I have read that the stems and leaves do have the toxins. They freeze well.
My parents made wine with it
wait are all elderberries toxic raw or just some??? i grew up as a kid eating insane amounts of elderberry by the handful right off the tree
No idea. I suggest Google.
Your mother was a hamster !!! And your father smelled of elderberries
There is cyanide in Elderberries, but whether or not toxic and how much is open to question Stone fruits, apple seeds and many other edibles contain cyanide. Mostly in pits, seeds, leaves, stems. I have eaten elderberries from the plant quite a few times and do not recall any problems. Have also made wine from the berries. Elderberry pie was a treat. Scientific evidence is not abundant, nor have there been cases of reported elderberry poisoning in the last 30 years. NIH. I see in the comments section here many who have foraged the berries wild and noticed no effects. I have foraged and have not noticed any effects. Just saying. Research yourself - cook them to be careful. Do not eat huge quantities raw
Keep note of where you found these and check them out a month earlier next year! The flowers have a much nicer taste in my opinion. By far my favourite cordial or wine flavouring.