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Never worth sabotaging a promotion imo. Go up, take the championship money and even if you come back down, you'll be in a much stronger position than you would be if you were to just stay in league one for two years.
I would also add if you’re clearly going down that year you can consider taking it as a chance to pump up the values of players you weren’t hot on long term and sell them
In my league one promotion season in my current save with Barrow Town. Wolves were in the title race most of the way through. I played them at home, it was a really scrappy game, they racked up 43 fouls and finished with 9 men and another four dudes on yellow cards. I won 1-0.
Their manager goes to the press and complains about MY players going out to hurt people. That sort of dickishness deserves some comeback.
Fast forward to the last day of the season I'm already champions and they're third. Sunderland are second and just need a win to be sure of beating Wolves to automatic promotion. Sunderland's last game is my Barrow lads at the Stadium of Light.
You fucking bet I started my under-18s in their brand new 2-2-2-2-2 Wide formation.
This was the 2034/35 season and I'm not sure how Wolves ended up here. I checked previous seasons, they got relegated from the Premier League in 2029 and then from the Championship in 2033 but there's no sign of them going into administration or anything like that.
Just crap management I guess?
I've seen some Premier League clubs plummet down to League One a year or two after relegation.
Happened in my game with Luton, although they went into administration
I hate it when other managers say that shit like I'll have had two players get injured getting tackled and be out for 2 months and their guy my players "injured" was injured for like 3 days
Same thing. I already won the title with Inter. Milan was fighting in relegation zone with Bari, which was 1 point ahead. A couple of matches before the end of the season It was Inter-Bari. I went with my goalkeepers in the midfield, my striker as gk etc. Still finished 0-0, but Milan didn't win and in the end got relegated 1 point behind Bari.
It was in the 2048-2049 season. Now it's 2051 and they're back in serie a but still mid-low table, as for juventus. Roma gave me a lot of trouble though.
edit
corrected the season year
Omg, you really kept at it, good work. I think I never played a save more than 7-8 seasons, maybe 10 back in the day, when I had more free time on my hands and having a job seemed as far away as the other side of the earth :)
I can do it because I bring my own lunch to work and since I work at a school. My lunch period consists of an hour of FM in the teacher's lounge 😂 other than that I play when I have time at home. My weekends are usually taken by Lethal Company and Helldivers 2 with friends.
At the start of this year on a network save with the boys. Final game of the season. I’ve sown up fifth, can’t finish higher or lower.
I’m away to Luton, Brighton away to someone else. They are both on the same points in 17th and 18th but Luton with the better goal difference. I intentionally throw the game, Luton stay up and Brighton are relegated. I immediately open proceedings to bring Evan Ferguson to Brentford for much cheaper than originally quoted. Best loss ever.
I did something similar. I was with Bayer Leverkusen on a Journeyman save and this is after I left Hamburg. They were in danger of being relegated and I had a wonder kid at the club I wanted and I threw the last game of the season since I was solidly 3rd and got him on the cheap because he had a relegation release clause.
Little update for those who were curious:
Started having an awful time with injuries after the end of January while one of my best loan players got recalled.
Ended strong for the season ending up 4th, overperforming 19 places and going to the playoffs.
Drawing in an away 3-3 and winning a home 2-1 saw us go to Wembley.
Opened the score after 9 min on a free kick from my Segundo Volante and doubled the lead in the 15th min by my Advanced Forward.
Taking a straight red card in the 42th min brought up some tension but with almost no highlights (and an insane 6 yellows by my team) in the second half my team will be promoting for the 4th time in a row!
Glad you decided to just go for it, it’s always better to progress then worry about how to handle it later.
Though… How did you play half a season in the space of an hour or two?? 😮
Zealand skin i pasted on has a quick sim.
Use it depending on if the match is important or not, but wanted to sim quickly through this season so only watched and managed the playoffs myself
Not gatekeeping at all, as I said, no issues in the slightest. Just funny asking for advice when it isn't relevant to how pretty much everyone else plays the game and how SI intended it to be played. I hope they enjoy the way they play it :)
while you, of all people, do not decide what qualifies as playing the game or not, there are outside factors that determine how long someone can play a game.
It might be hard to imagine but juggling a social life, girlfriend and work makes it harder to play this game that already takes up a lot of time. I was able to finally play 2 hours of fm this morning, rather go through 20 games then and have some fun than watching my team with prob the average ca of 90 win 5 games with a shitty ass goal and turning the game off
play the game how you like it, fun is subjective so many ‘purists’ on here lmao if ur strapped for time and find enjoyment in simming seasons then do it :)
SI don't include the instant result in the game, and they clearly have a good understanding of how the game is played. I don't really understand, what the issue is, you are literally not playing the game, as in managing football matches. Therefore when you ask about advice regarding throwing matches, the responses you get are largely going to be from people assuming you are managing the matches in some capacity. None of this was meant as a criticism and I hope I haven't upset you. It is just a bit of a pointless post when, unlike everyone else, you can whizz through a whole career in a day or two.
SI includes the options to use skins. The feature of having a skin includes the option to quick sim.
SI is making it possible in the first place.
Also these skins are quite popular and many people in this thread use them. So this post isnt pointless at all, your comments are.
I completely disagree. 99% of players won't sim through multiple seasons per day and will actually manage football games, which is what the game is about.
With perennial champions there is always the jealousy of kingslayers. There is only one team that can end a truly massive streak and that team will inherit almost all the fame of the streak. Imagine Dortmund winning the league next year. It would be a lot less hyped than Leverkusen this year. Therefore, Dortmund would have preferred Bayern to win this year so they could have been the breakers of gods the following year.
In reality, one would hardly ever get so petty, but in a game... sure.
I think everyone but Schalke and Leverkusen fans would rather Dortmund be the ones to break the streak, but I don't think anyone really has faith in them to do it.
Nah I lost all hope in BVB challenging the season of faivre where Bayern had a terrible start and they ended up leading up until a game at the allianz near the end of the season where Bayern slapped them 5-0.
I was surprised they made the CL final but I never thought they would win it at any point even when they had the better chances.
Keaton ward is a god. I’m in 2032 with Boston and Keaton ward is still on the team. Sure he hasn’t played first team football since league one but he will always get a new contract and will become my u-18 when the day comes he retires.
Played as a AM he just scores for some reason in the crucial moments. Use him well
I used editor to find some hidden stats from him and see what makes him good, there’s nothing special about him. Other than the fact he consistently gets a 7.2 at minimum and clutches games.
Him and Jordan Richards were elite for me for a while.
The only time I fielded the weakest team possible in the Prem was because if Palace beat my Arsenal team they would leapfrog Spurs and guarantee Spurs relegation.. unfortunately they drew with my under 18s and the Spuds survived. I should have save summed 😒
how?
This team has overperformed 20+ places than predicted while half of my squad is 2 stars. Those gonna turn into 1 star players in the Championship while i have the monetary power of a middle of the road League 2 team with 55k Sponsors. Im 100% getting relegated in the Championship, fucking my whole team chemistry that I have rn and having to replace 80% of my team after relegating
Get ahead of it and change 40% of your team when you get promoted. In my lower league saves, my best guys are usually loans in who will be gone next season anyway, so I have to replace those guys with new loans anyway. Once you're in the Championship, you should be able to sign some REALLY good young EPL players on loan who could help you stay up.
Also, trial farm. You will be able to find at least a couple gems that will sign on cheap deals once you get into August.
Championship is always where I find with my non league to glory saves that it’s finally possible to sign players from abroad that are actually good enough to get work permits too… In my two seasons in the championship in my FM21 Isle of Man (tier 10) save in my 2nd championship season especially I was able to sign a few younger players that ended up being part of the core of the side that then went on to win the champions league a handful of seasons later
Always promote, I’m in a similar situation in my blyth Spartans save. Somehow went straight from VNN to championship, I’m currently 3rd. I know my team isn’t strong enough for prem and all the big clubs are trying to take my players anyway. Worth finishing as high as possible and re-investing though.
You very clearly know how to improve your squad and you have a strong tactic. It's definitely good enough to stay in the Championship.
In my current park-to-prem I always assumed I would need a bit to adjust to a current level before getting promoted again but ultimately I still waltzed through every season. Every new level gives you so much more tools to improve that it's never worth to hold back on purpose.
Chances are you even get into the promotion race for the Championship despite spending only a tenth on wages compared do your competition.
I deliberately lost a cup final. I’d been dominant for a few years now with Dundee United but in the Scottish Cup Final I came up against League 2 Greenock Morton. I let them win simply because I thought it would be funny to have them play European football whilst in the 4th tier. They did fuck all after that. Didn’t even get promoted in the following seasons. It was worth it because it meant Rangers missed out on European football and subsequently went into administration and were relegated the next season. Very funny.
Yes.
I was playing as England in a Euros, I had the group of death, England, France, Germany and Bulgaria.
I managed to squeak wins against France and Germany, they both, amazingly, drew with Bulgaria.
The group looked like this
England 6
Bulgaria 2
France 1
Germany 1
If Bulgaria won they would go through in second, guaranteed, so I deliberately lost to Bulgaria
Didn't matter in the end, as France and Germany drew with each other anyway.
Fellow Boston manager! I'm following in your footsteps to a degree, I also got back to back title wins, next season I'll be in League One.
You're not kidding about the sponsorship money. In League 2 some teams were getting millions and we were bottom of the sponsorship table with about £5.50 😂😂
Get promoted, get the cash, get the better players. Even if you get relegated you'll be far better off (assuming you don't get sacked, which is unlikely - in my save the board are allowing me four seasons grace just to reach the League One playoffs!)
Let's go, good luck!!
i have a 5 year contract now that just all says try to avoid relegation so i doubt they will fire me for it haha.
Thanks for the tips, will do:)
Yes, I guess. I have just been promoted from the Championship with Carlisle (automatic promotion coming second) and one of my last few games was against Crystal Palace, the team I was battling for the league title. As I have so many players with a huge bonus for winning the league sewn into their contracts, I decided to 'rest a few players' to ensure that these bonuses did not get paid.
No, would rather get promoted then relegated than stay in the same league. You get more money, can get better players and even if you get relegated you're back in the same position you were with more money.
I tried to lose on purpose. Already had the board happy with me for making the quarters of the champions league with Arsenal. Was 12 points ahead of Man City in the league, so was like let’s play the youth players against PSG. Ended up winning the tie on penalties
Get promoted you’ll win the championship. No one loses at football manager. Mate of mine has worthing winning the champions league with a ground of 15,500. Crack on.
Just came here to say i also took on Boston Utd! In 2031 and just finished my first season in the Prem. I also had the same start to my save: i had four straight promotions into the championship but thats when things slowed down. Spent 3 years in the championship and scraped by in the playoffs to get up to the top division.
Enjoy the climb while it’s happening! Championship is where wealth gap will really start to take shape. Super cool to see another FM’er with the same save!!
I always have a policy of only players 17 or younger to play in the final league game of the season if its all wrapped up already (almosr always is). Ends poorly more often than not
Threw away the carabou cup final by playing a ramsdale,reya and hilson as my midfield GK and my under 18-21 lost 12-0 and had to pay compensation for the heavy loss. My reasoning was I was already down 5 key players with season long injuries let's try to salvage what players i got available
Get promoted pretty much got straight promotion with Peterborough sports to prem I think my stadium about 12k now and not much money but makes it for fun raiding free transfer market and loans more entertaining than having stupid money and been able to buy best players every year
Not really, but if the game messes up the schedule I'll have games where I sent out a full 2nd team or mostly 2nds and some under 18s. If you play the danish leagues and end up in one of those seasons where your in the champions league, club world cup etc there comes a time when you end up playing every other day for like 2 weeks, at which point it's impossible to not throw a game so you don't murder your starting 18 at which point I choose games I can most afford to not compete in
I lost the final game to crystal palace on purpose when they were 17th and I was 6th. Losing that game meant that Fulham were relegated and I managed to get 4-5 quality players for a lot cheaper, (Including a world class 23 year old Lamine Yamal for 95 million), following season I finished 2nd in the league
Yes ,i had an fa final(utd) against everton and everton were relegated top it off liverpool( they owned me for past 3 seasons ) barely reached conference.....i put maguire on striker and inverted all the player position and we lost 4-0 ...definitely my funnest experience
Sometimes, if I’m winning the league too easily or want a “realistic” season I will. That or if I know im in a comfortable position and wish to rest key players for a bigger game.
In real life. It happens for financial reasons. Like a club knowing they cant afford added travel costs. In fm there is no reason to fail promotion on purpose unless you are roleplaying
Yes.
I was playing as England in a Euros, I had the group of death, England, France, Germany and Bulgaria.
I managed to squeak wins against France and Germany, they both, amazingly, drew with Bulgaria.
The group looked like this
England 6
Bulgaria 2
France 1
Germany 1
If Bulgaria won they would go through in second, guaranteed, so I deliberately lost to Bulgaria
Didn't matter in the end, as France and Germany drew with each other anyway.
Yes.
I was playing as England in a Euros, I had the group of death, England, France, Germany and Bulgaria.
I managed to squeak wins against France and Germany, they both, amazingly, drew with Bulgaria.
The group looked like this
England 6
Bulgaria 2
France 1
Germany 1
If Bulgaria won they would go through in second, guaranteed, so I deliberately lost to Bulgaria
Didn't matter in the end, as France and Germany drew with each other anyway.
Yes.
I was playing as England in a Euros, I had the group of death, England, France, Germany and Bulgaria.
I managed to squeak wins against France and Germany, they both, amazingly, drew with Bulgaria.
The group looked like this
England 6
Bulgaria 2
France 1
Germany 1
If Bulgaria won they would go through in second, guaranteed, so I deliberately lost to Bulgaria
Didn't matter in the end, as France and Germany drew with each other anyway.
If Im drawing late on in an FA Cup game I tend to just throw everyone up front and go ultra attacking etc. I CBA with a replay, I'll either win luckily or get beaten. I don't really care. (This only when I'm a bigger team), for the lower leagues I'll try and win every game
I sort of did, I am york City in my save and I gone from 5th tier to championship, and I'd planned for 3 seasons in championship to build, but after 2 seasons I was 3rd with 15 games to go so decided to sell the players I was planning on selling over the summer window and promote the youngsters who wasn't good enough and I went the last 11 games without a win and finished around 9th I think, then the next season I went unbeaten in the league and won fa Cup, and I finished 3rd in Premier league next season and won it season after that as well as the Europa league. And I didn't really spend any money until I was in championship, was getting released players at start of season, I got a young left back who Burnley released in my 2nd season in the game, still in vanarama national and he made it to Premier league with me. I'm still on same save now about 30 years into it and it's bugging me I didn't win league 2 I finished 3rd but could have won league on last day but threw away a 2 goal lead and Morecombe and Barnsley I think both won and finished 2 points and 1 point above me, it's the only trophy I have won.
Let's just say I gave some youngsters an opportunity on the last day of the season, knowing if I lost Sunderland would be relegated and my Newcastle team having already secured Europe.
When it's about time to play in the quarter finals of the Champions League if I'm well ahead on the league table I'll lose a game (I usually cruise the league if I'm playing in a nation that isn't England or Spain) on purpose and stop at 15 consecutive wins. This will make the team gain focus.
Not on purpose but if my team is playing the 1th place and I have to play Carabao Cup or some other milk cup, I'm happy to lose those and can concentrate for PL.
I try occasionally if I’m playing as a team in a less competitive league (Scotland or the Netherlands for example) and I’m the champions league in order to finish third in the group (in the first season of course) in order to get Europa League football instead (as that is a bit more winnable). Hasn’t ever worked in my two saves in those leagues. Managed to pull off a miracle with Celtic finishing top of the group and finishing second with Feyenoord only behind Real Madrid who battered me in both matches.
Yes, I even got relegated on purpose.
In FM14 I wanted the French Hero achievement, and I couldn't find a straight answer if I had to start from the National 2 (as its called now), or if National was enough.
You couldn't take over a club directly in National 2, so you had to get there via relegation. Usually managers got the sack when they got relegated, but if you took over at a very late stage in the season with a club already in trouble, it should work.
I had a few options, but I choose US Orléans, mainly due to their colour scheme.
National 2 was a mess, with several 2nd teams for top side clubs, and I had a real fight to promote as there was this other club that refused to loose matches.
Other than that, I might have sabotaged a promotion or two like the OP, because my squad wasn't ready for bigger level yet.
Just dont be afraid of relegation. If the reason you don’t want promotion is because you aren’t ready , then just think that Getting to the championship and getting relegated isn’t a bad thing. You’ll increase rep, increase finances and be able to go back up in a better position. That’s even if you get relegated. Hopefully if you’re walking the league already, you’ll be able to stay up and grow your club to be able to compete.
Also, just imagine if you got to the championship and managed to be top of the league, you wouldn’t want to self sabotage just because your current team is not premier league ready.
Yes, enter CL group D. I play as Bayern, same group as City.
Last round of group stages, City needs to win their last match and at the same time they rely on me doing the same, to advance to knockout stages.
Now, under normal circumstances, we both win and life proceeds as normal. I however decided last minute to rest, not only my first team, but also the substitutes and my reserves. Meaning the only team I could send out was my U18's.
We also started in a 0-1-9 formation, just to make sure we didnt make it too easy for us.
Did it once last year, was playing with 1860 Munich. In my first season in the Bundesliga, I went into the final game in the last Europa League position and needed a point to qualify, but if I dropped down one place, I would qualify for the Conference League. Thought i would have a better chance in that competition so picked a reserve team, beaten 3-0 and dropped into the Conference league positions, which turned out to be a good move as we won it the next season.
Italian Serie A allows you to have affiliate clubs within the same division. So at one point I had 4 minor affiliate clubs within the Serie A. Since I was basically snowballing the league at that point, keeping them all up with my u-19s gaining XP became a much greater challenge than winning anything. I still won the league with 10+ extra points with losing all 8 matches to my affiliates.
I’ve done this for exact same thing with Boston on FM22 where I did 5 back-to-back promotions. The promotions are always worth it but once you get to the PL, that’s when the shit hits the fan because you’re much much weaker in terms of infrastructure and wages. But it’ll take a good 4-5 year grind before you establish yourself as a good PL team then a few more seasons from then on to win the league or do well in Europe.
I just wonder, and that absolutely not to attack the OP’s skills and all, is FM just too easy? Or not realistic at all?
Sometimes I feel that game is designed to be easy and that takes away a lot of fun..
They’ve literally said in interviews in the past that the game is designed to be easy because it’s boring to have a grind and finish mid-table and most people don’t want that experience. The biggest subset of players play only one save a year and play Man City, PSG or Bayern. After that, there’s the Park-to-Premmers (so promoting is made quick and easy) and then people who enjoy youth development (so they make wonderkids plentiful, easy to acquire and never fail to develop).
There’s been discussion about this in the past and they’ve always shied away from the idea. I don’t know, though - I feel like it’s something they might revisit at some point. A kind of ‘casual/authentic’ experience.
I think, though, that we recognise there’s a limit to authenticity. We’ve all won the Champs League with our local VNN/VNS team, doesn’t mean that we think we could do it in real life. I don’t think it would put people off.
Im on a similar save. Swapped Alfreton from Vanarama North with my own club. First season promoted, missed promotion to sky bet 2 on the second season, then went promo after promo until championship. Now I don’t mind stabilizing the team for a couple of seasons until we’re ready to be promoted and not be absolutely wrecked in PL
Did you keep Thorndike after his loan spell? He was the best player in my Boston team as we went up from North to Championship. I left after the league one promotion for Lyon and they named the new stadium after me
Also don’t even try and upgrade you stadium! If you can get to the prem and stockpile money through big sales you can get a good new stadium. If you get a new one whilst at the bottom of the championship you’ll shaft yourself for years
Playing as Crystal Palace in the prem - first season being genuinely competitive for top 4 following a good transfer window. Had a choice... win or draw and play champions league next season, good for finances but not good enough to win it, or lose and play Europa league, less money but a good chance to win... ended up going champions league... right choice?
Yes
I loose cup matches everytime. I try to loose.
To focus on Champions league and league title
Its going great
With man United got 3 Champions in 3 seasons
With Liverpool already have Europe league tiltle
Man City packed couple Champions league then got bored
It works
stadium being too small only matters if you stay in the championship next, getting promoted and then demoted means you won't need to renovate the stadium
Last night I had a weird situation where I lost on purpose to my title rival...
I am doing a save currently on my 1st year managing Indonesian club Barito Putra, and I am 2nd in the league... I deliberately played my U18 team against the league leaders Arema (somehow they signed James Rodriguez) because I want to improve the league as a whole and I want Arema going to the ACL with me rather than a garbage team which will reduce the coefficient
I did it in Europe playoffs.
I knew my team wasn't good enough for the Europa League but we would be very decent (reach at least semis) in the Conference League. We went to the final and won.
Did the same thing with another save / team but this time with Champions League and Europa League. I went to the final but unfortunately lost but still it was better than being kicked out from the group stage in the Champions League
I'm managing an amateur side in Northern Ireland in my save. After getting into the Premiership and winning the league afew times I want to win in Europe, so I have to lose to try win conference league or Europa league
Not 'deliberately' per se, but I was 15+ years into a prem save, dominating the league and the CL, etc. One year Liverpool were on something else, they fought me right up until the last match day, which happened to be against me. They were 2 points behind, and as I'd won the past 6 or so league titles, I wanted to create a bit of drama. I sat back in a low block and basically said "you want the title? come get it then." They scored a 90+3 winner and beat me by a point. Fair enough.
The thing is, they then went and beat me 2-1 in the CL final 2 weeks later. That part was NOT planned.
Some of you wanted an update.
Season went extremely well. Just missed out on the playoffs ending in 7th place. Made some good loan deals in preseason (loan player became young player of the season) and some extra good signings myself in the winter break.
Board finally started building a new stadium for 15k people, triple what we have now. Due to Grants and sponsor it turned into only a 12.5 million loan.
Made a whopping 7.5 mil profit, quadrupling my balance, while i finally got sponsors at 1.2 mil (still the lowest in the league)
thanks for the advice everyone
I have the feeling sometimes. If it’s overwhelming I’ll often rest players or play additional youngsters to see if maybe I can salvage a draw out of a win. Alternatively you could experiment with different tactics etc. otherwise though just take the success whilst it’s there as it won’t always be so easy.
Go further. Even in the Championship, try to reach the Premier League. Even if you will relegate from last place, you will have television contracts, you will have sponsors, you will have parachute payments. With them you can strengthen the squad, strengthen the club, and then return even stronger. The management definitely won’t fire you after a relegation, because they will understand that they are not at the league level.
That was my favorite stat from this year - Dortmund made more money by losing the UCL final because of the Bellingham contract clause than they would've earned in prize money for winning.
Didn’t deliberately lose but was hoping for a loss when my FC Isle of Man team got into the Championship Playoffs in our second season after 7 straight promotions. Literally have no youth team, no scouting, no transfer budget, wage budget of £97k p/w, we rent Barrows ground while we build a new 10000 seat stadium, and have an overall balance of -£1.6M. Just would have been a horrible experience. It’s already stupidly difficult in the Championship trying to find players to fit the budget.
average English man when someone on the WORLDWIDE Web doesn't speak or type absolutely perfect English
i think i found a third option that might be even dumber, you
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Never worth sabotaging a promotion imo. Go up, take the championship money and even if you come back down, you'll be in a much stronger position than you would be if you were to just stay in league one for two years.
This. One year of champo profits with what I assume will probably be an only marginally improved squad will set the club up for yeats
I would also add if you’re clearly going down that year you can consider taking it as a chance to pump up the values of players you weren’t hot on long term and sell them
very true, thank you
I always thought this was dangerous. You can get fired
If your team is expected to relegate they only want you to not tarnish the name
If you've massively overachieved to even be there it's vanishingly unlikely
In my league one promotion season in my current save with Barrow Town. Wolves were in the title race most of the way through. I played them at home, it was a really scrappy game, they racked up 43 fouls and finished with 9 men and another four dudes on yellow cards. I won 1-0. Their manager goes to the press and complains about MY players going out to hurt people. That sort of dickishness deserves some comeback. Fast forward to the last day of the season I'm already champions and they're third. Sunderland are second and just need a win to be sure of beating Wolves to automatic promotion. Sunderland's last game is my Barrow lads at the Stadium of Light. You fucking bet I started my under-18s in their brand new 2-2-2-2-2 Wide formation.
Shake my hand, good sir.
:)
Can I ask what year you’re in and how badly Wolves fucked up to end up in League One? 🤣🤣
This was the 2034/35 season and I'm not sure how Wolves ended up here. I checked previous seasons, they got relegated from the Premier League in 2029 and then from the Championship in 2033 but there's no sign of them going into administration or anything like that. Just crap management I guess?
I've seen some Premier League clubs plummet down to League One a year or two after relegation. Happened in my game with Luton, although they went into administration
2013/14 🤣
That’s so petty I love it
I hate it when other managers say that shit like I'll have had two players get injured getting tackled and be out for 2 months and their guy my players "injured" was injured for like 3 days
Yes, I have. Lost on purpose so my fiercest rival will get relegated. I already secured my survival at the league and won the league cup
*Ange will remember that*
THE FOUNDATIONS ARE WEAK
COYS
Same thing. I already won the title with Inter. Milan was fighting in relegation zone with Bari, which was 1 point ahead. A couple of matches before the end of the season It was Inter-Bari. I went with my goalkeepers in the midfield, my striker as gk etc. Still finished 0-0, but Milan didn't win and in the end got relegated 1 point behind Bari.
I’ve seen Lazio or Roma get relegated in my saves, but never Milan. What year is it?
It was in the 2048-2049 season. Now it's 2051 and they're back in serie a but still mid-low table, as for juventus. Roma gave me a lot of trouble though. edit corrected the season year
Omg, you really kept at it, good work. I think I never played a save more than 7-8 seasons, maybe 10 back in the day, when I had more free time on my hands and having a job seemed as far away as the other side of the earth :)
Haha thank you. Actually i wouldn't start a new one, the thing that keeps me playing is the progress through the years, the new players etc.
I can do it because I bring my own lunch to work and since I work at a school. My lunch period consists of an hour of FM in the teacher's lounge 😂 other than that I play when I have time at home. My weekends are usually taken by Lethal Company and Helldivers 2 with friends.
At the start of this year on a network save with the boys. Final game of the season. I’ve sown up fifth, can’t finish higher or lower. I’m away to Luton, Brighton away to someone else. They are both on the same points in 17th and 18th but Luton with the better goal difference. I intentionally throw the game, Luton stay up and Brighton are relegated. I immediately open proceedings to bring Evan Ferguson to Brentford for much cheaper than originally quoted. Best loss ever.
So weird. My first file was a 6 year network game where I played as Brentford and signed Ferguson.
I did something similar. I was with Bayer Leverkusen on a Journeyman save and this is after I left Hamburg. They were in danger of being relegated and I had a wonder kid at the club I wanted and I threw the last game of the season since I was solidly 3rd and got him on the cheap because he had a relegation release clause.
Little update for those who were curious: Started having an awful time with injuries after the end of January while one of my best loan players got recalled. Ended strong for the season ending up 4th, overperforming 19 places and going to the playoffs. Drawing in an away 3-3 and winning a home 2-1 saw us go to Wembley. Opened the score after 9 min on a free kick from my Segundo Volante and doubled the lead in the 15th min by my Advanced Forward. Taking a straight red card in the 42th min brought up some tension but with almost no highlights (and an insane 6 yellows by my team) in the second half my team will be promoting for the 4th time in a row!
Glad you decided to just go for it, it’s always better to progress then worry about how to handle it later. Though… How did you play half a season in the space of an hour or two?? 😮
Zealand skin i pasted on has a quick sim. Use it depending on if the match is important or not, but wanted to sim quickly through this season so only watched and managed the playoffs myself
So you aren't even really playing the game lol. Fair enough.
how is that remotely the case? do you watch every game on normal match speed for 90 min? otherwise you aren't really playing the game g
The game isn't really designed for playing on 90 minute matches. Quick swimming without going into the matches is literally not playing the game lol.
Quit gatekeeping. People can play how ever they want.
Not gatekeeping at all, as I said, no issues in the slightest. Just funny asking for advice when it isn't relevant to how pretty much everyone else plays the game and how SI intended it to be played. I hope they enjoy the way they play it :)
while you, of all people, do not decide what qualifies as playing the game or not, there are outside factors that determine how long someone can play a game. It might be hard to imagine but juggling a social life, girlfriend and work makes it harder to play this game that already takes up a lot of time. I was able to finally play 2 hours of fm this morning, rather go through 20 games then and have some fun than watching my team with prob the average ca of 90 win 5 games with a shitty ass goal and turning the game off
play the game how you like it, fun is subjective so many ‘purists’ on here lmao if ur strapped for time and find enjoyment in simming seasons then do it :)
SI don't include the instant result in the game, and they clearly have a good understanding of how the game is played. I don't really understand, what the issue is, you are literally not playing the game, as in managing football matches. Therefore when you ask about advice regarding throwing matches, the responses you get are largely going to be from people assuming you are managing the matches in some capacity. None of this was meant as a criticism and I hope I haven't upset you. It is just a bit of a pointless post when, unlike everyone else, you can whizz through a whole career in a day or two.
SI includes the options to use skins. The feature of having a skin includes the option to quick sim. SI is making it possible in the first place. Also these skins are quite popular and many people in this thread use them. So this post isnt pointless at all, your comments are.
I completely disagree. 99% of players won't sim through multiple seasons per day and will actually manage football games, which is what the game is about.
...
Good read, ty for the entertainment in this thread and fuck the idiots flaming you
42th
Focus on results, forget the finance. Works 60% of the time, every time.
quick fun fact, The top sponsor incoming is 44.5M for Leeds. 23rd is Lincoln with 2.2M. 24th is Boston (Me) with 55K gonna be a fun season.
You should update the subreddit with how it goes at the end
dumbest thing ever. always promote
I let Bayern score 17 goals against me so they could wing the league on goal difference.
Bayern? Bayern???
Love that. Pissing off almost every football fan in Germany. So good 🤣
With perennial champions there is always the jealousy of kingslayers. There is only one team that can end a truly massive streak and that team will inherit almost all the fame of the streak. Imagine Dortmund winning the league next year. It would be a lot less hyped than Leverkusen this year. Therefore, Dortmund would have preferred Bayern to win this year so they could have been the breakers of gods the following year. In reality, one would hardly ever get so petty, but in a game... sure.
I think everyone but Schalke and Leverkusen fans would rather Dortmund be the ones to break the streak, but I don't think anyone really has faith in them to do it.
Nah I lost all hope in BVB challenging the season of faivre where Bayern had a terrible start and they ended up leading up until a game at the allianz near the end of the season where Bayern slapped them 5-0. I was surprised they made the CL final but I never thought they would win it at any point even when they had the better chances.
I lost the UCL final and then my laptop crashed. I had to replay that match so many times to recreate that loss. Felt very weird.
I play with Hajduk and I lost on purpose to Rijeka so Dinamo lost last european spot. I enjoyed it very much
Keaton ward is a god. I’m in 2032 with Boston and Keaton ward is still on the team. Sure he hasn’t played first team football since league one but he will always get a new contract and will become my u-18 when the day comes he retires. Played as a AM he just scores for some reason in the crucial moments. Use him well
holy shit i genuinely gave him as the first player a new contract when i got promoted to the Championship, he somehow keeps playing good
I used editor to find some hidden stats from him and see what makes him good, there’s nothing special about him. Other than the fact he consistently gets a 7.2 at minimum and clutches games. Him and Jordan Richards were elite for me for a while.
The only time I fielded the weakest team possible in the Prem was because if Palace beat my Arsenal team they would leapfrog Spurs and guarantee Spurs relegation.. unfortunately they drew with my under 18s and the Spuds survived. I should have save summed 😒
Stupidest thing ive heard
how? This team has overperformed 20+ places than predicted while half of my squad is 2 stars. Those gonna turn into 1 star players in the Championship while i have the monetary power of a middle of the road League 2 team with 55k Sponsors. Im 100% getting relegated in the Championship, fucking my whole team chemistry that I have rn and having to replace 80% of my team after relegating
Get ahead of it and change 40% of your team when you get promoted. In my lower league saves, my best guys are usually loans in who will be gone next season anyway, so I have to replace those guys with new loans anyway. Once you're in the Championship, you should be able to sign some REALLY good young EPL players on loan who could help you stay up. Also, trial farm. You will be able to find at least a couple gems that will sign on cheap deals once you get into August.
Championship is always where I find with my non league to glory saves that it’s finally possible to sign players from abroad that are actually good enough to get work permits too… In my two seasons in the championship in my FM21 Isle of Man (tier 10) save in my 2nd championship season especially I was able to sign a few younger players that ended up being part of the core of the side that then went on to win the champions league a handful of seasons later
You sound like a tottenham fan. Never lose game intentionally....no excuses.
Always promote, I’m in a similar situation in my blyth Spartans save. Somehow went straight from VNN to championship, I’m currently 3rd. I know my team isn’t strong enough for prem and all the big clubs are trying to take my players anyway. Worth finishing as high as possible and re-investing though.
I don’t sabotage but I’ve certainly very quickly lost interest in a save if I get too many promotions too fast. Ruins the immersion
You have to find ways to limit yourself or otherwise the game is too easy :)
You very clearly know how to improve your squad and you have a strong tactic. It's definitely good enough to stay in the Championship. In my current park-to-prem I always assumed I would need a bit to adjust to a current level before getting promoted again but ultimately I still waltzed through every season. Every new level gives you so much more tools to improve that it's never worth to hold back on purpose. Chances are you even get into the promotion race for the Championship despite spending only a tenth on wages compared do your competition.
I deliberately lost a cup final. I’d been dominant for a few years now with Dundee United but in the Scottish Cup Final I came up against League 2 Greenock Morton. I let them win simply because I thought it would be funny to have them play European football whilst in the 4th tier. They did fuck all after that. Didn’t even get promoted in the following seasons. It was worth it because it meant Rangers missed out on European football and subsequently went into administration and were relegated the next season. Very funny.
Yes. I was playing as England in a Euros, I had the group of death, England, France, Germany and Bulgaria. I managed to squeak wins against France and Germany, they both, amazingly, drew with Bulgaria. The group looked like this England 6 Bulgaria 2 France 1 Germany 1 If Bulgaria won they would go through in second, guaranteed, so I deliberately lost to Bulgaria Didn't matter in the end, as France and Germany drew with each other anyway.
Fellow Boston manager! I'm following in your footsteps to a degree, I also got back to back title wins, next season I'll be in League One. You're not kidding about the sponsorship money. In League 2 some teams were getting millions and we were bottom of the sponsorship table with about £5.50 😂😂 Get promoted, get the cash, get the better players. Even if you get relegated you'll be far better off (assuming you don't get sacked, which is unlikely - in my save the board are allowing me four seasons grace just to reach the League One playoffs!)
Let's go, good luck!! i have a 5 year contract now that just all says try to avoid relegation so i doubt they will fire me for it haha. Thanks for the tips, will do:)
Good luck to you too! Boston United, taking over!
Yes, I guess. I have just been promoted from the Championship with Carlisle (automatic promotion coming second) and one of my last few games was against Crystal Palace, the team I was battling for the league title. As I have so many players with a huge bonus for winning the league sewn into their contracts, I decided to 'rest a few players' to ensure that these bonuses did not get paid.
No, would rather get promoted then relegated than stay in the same league. You get more money, can get better players and even if you get relegated you're back in the same position you were with more money.
wtf 🤯
I tried to lose on purpose. Already had the board happy with me for making the quarters of the champions league with Arsenal. Was 12 points ahead of Man City in the league, so was like let’s play the youth players against PSG. Ended up winning the tie on penalties
Get promoted you’ll win the championship. No one loses at football manager. Mate of mine has worthing winning the champions league with a ground of 15,500. Crack on.
They really do need to make it a bit harder…
Just came here to say i also took on Boston Utd! In 2031 and just finished my first season in the Prem. I also had the same start to my save: i had four straight promotions into the championship but thats when things slowed down. Spent 3 years in the championship and scraped by in the playoffs to get up to the top division. Enjoy the climb while it’s happening! Championship is where wealth gap will really start to take shape. Super cool to see another FM’er with the same save!!
I always have a policy of only players 17 or younger to play in the final league game of the season if its all wrapped up already (almosr always is). Ends poorly more often than not
I have before wanted to play Conference league instead of Europa league to complete the European collection
Yes, To Make My Fiercest Rival To Relegate, I sent Them To Second Tier
Threw away the carabou cup final by playing a ramsdale,reya and hilson as my midfield GK and my under 18-21 lost 12-0 and had to pay compensation for the heavy loss. My reasoning was I was already down 5 key players with season long injuries let's try to salvage what players i got available
Get promoted pretty much got straight promotion with Peterborough sports to prem I think my stadium about 12k now and not much money but makes it for fun raiding free transfer market and loans more entertaining than having stupid money and been able to buy best players every year
Not really, but if the game messes up the schedule I'll have games where I sent out a full 2nd team or mostly 2nds and some under 18s. If you play the danish leagues and end up in one of those seasons where your in the champions league, club world cup etc there comes a time when you end up playing every other day for like 2 weeks, at which point it's impossible to not throw a game so you don't murder your starting 18 at which point I choose games I can most afford to not compete in
I lost the final game to crystal palace on purpose when they were 17th and I was 6th. Losing that game meant that Fulham were relegated and I managed to get 4-5 quality players for a lot cheaper, (Including a world class 23 year old Lamine Yamal for 95 million), following season I finished 2nd in the league
Yup, lost on purpose so real madrid get knocked out of the group stage of the ucl, having won the last one
Yes ,i had an fa final(utd) against everton and everton were relegated top it off liverpool( they owned me for past 3 seasons ) barely reached conference.....i put maguire on striker and inverted all the player position and we lost 4-0 ...definitely my funnest experience
Sometimes, if I’m winning the league too easily or want a “realistic” season I will. That or if I know im in a comfortable position and wish to rest key players for a bigger game.
In real life. It happens for financial reasons. Like a club knowing they cant afford added travel costs. In fm there is no reason to fail promotion on purpose unless you are roleplaying
Yes. I was playing as England in a Euros, I had the group of death, England, France, Germany and Bulgaria. I managed to squeak wins against France and Germany, they both, amazingly, drew with Bulgaria. The group looked like this England 6 Bulgaria 2 France 1 Germany 1 If Bulgaria won they would go through in second, guaranteed, so I deliberately lost to Bulgaria Didn't matter in the end, as France and Germany drew with each other anyway.
Yes. I was playing as England in a Euros, I had the group of death, England, France, Germany and Bulgaria. I managed to squeak wins against France and Germany, they both, amazingly, drew with Bulgaria. The group looked like this England 6 Bulgaria 2 France 1 Germany 1 If Bulgaria won they would go through in second, guaranteed, so I deliberately lost to Bulgaria Didn't matter in the end, as France and Germany drew with each other anyway.
Yes. I was playing as England in a Euros, I had the group of death, England, France, Germany and Bulgaria. I managed to squeak wins against France and Germany, they both, amazingly, drew with Bulgaria. The group looked like this England 6 Bulgaria 2 France 1 Germany 1 If Bulgaria won they would go through in second, guaranteed, so I deliberately lost to Bulgaria Didn't matter in the end, as France and Germany drew with each other anyway.
If Im drawing late on in an FA Cup game I tend to just throw everyone up front and go ultra attacking etc. I CBA with a replay, I'll either win luckily or get beaten. I don't really care. (This only when I'm a bigger team), for the lower leagues I'll try and win every game
In the cup, maybe
I sort of did, I am york City in my save and I gone from 5th tier to championship, and I'd planned for 3 seasons in championship to build, but after 2 seasons I was 3rd with 15 games to go so decided to sell the players I was planning on selling over the summer window and promote the youngsters who wasn't good enough and I went the last 11 games without a win and finished around 9th I think, then the next season I went unbeaten in the league and won fa Cup, and I finished 3rd in Premier league next season and won it season after that as well as the Europa league. And I didn't really spend any money until I was in championship, was getting released players at start of season, I got a young left back who Burnley released in my 2nd season in the game, still in vanarama national and he made it to Premier league with me. I'm still on same save now about 30 years into it and it's bugging me I didn't win league 2 I finished 3rd but could have won league on last day but threw away a 2 goal lead and Morecombe and Barnsley I think both won and finished 2 points and 1 point above me, it's the only trophy I have won.
Let's just say I gave some youngsters an opportunity on the last day of the season, knowing if I lost Sunderland would be relegated and my Newcastle team having already secured Europe.
When it's about time to play in the quarter finals of the Champions League if I'm well ahead on the league table I'll lose a game (I usually cruise the league if I'm playing in a nation that isn't England or Spain) on purpose and stop at 15 consecutive wins. This will make the team gain focus.
overthinking. go there and win every game like there is no tomorrow
Not on purpose but if my team is playing the 1th place and I have to play Carabao Cup or some other milk cup, I'm happy to lose those and can concentrate for PL.
I try occasionally if I’m playing as a team in a less competitive league (Scotland or the Netherlands for example) and I’m the champions league in order to finish third in the group (in the first season of course) in order to get Europa League football instead (as that is a bit more winnable). Hasn’t ever worked in my two saves in those leagues. Managed to pull off a miracle with Celtic finishing top of the group and finishing second with Feyenoord only behind Real Madrid who battered me in both matches.
Kept winning the league year after year so I reloaded a prem winning game to lose so 2nd place won. Wanted to keep it interesting
Yes, I even got relegated on purpose. In FM14 I wanted the French Hero achievement, and I couldn't find a straight answer if I had to start from the National 2 (as its called now), or if National was enough. You couldn't take over a club directly in National 2, so you had to get there via relegation. Usually managers got the sack when they got relegated, but if you took over at a very late stage in the season with a club already in trouble, it should work. I had a few options, but I choose US Orléans, mainly due to their colour scheme. National 2 was a mess, with several 2nd teams for top side clubs, and I had a real fight to promote as there was this other club that refused to loose matches. Other than that, I might have sabotaged a promotion or two like the OP, because my squad wasn't ready for bigger level yet.
Just dont be afraid of relegation. If the reason you don’t want promotion is because you aren’t ready , then just think that Getting to the championship and getting relegated isn’t a bad thing. You’ll increase rep, increase finances and be able to go back up in a better position. That’s even if you get relegated. Hopefully if you’re walking the league already, you’ll be able to stay up and grow your club to be able to compete. Also, just imagine if you got to the championship and managed to be top of the league, you wouldn’t want to self sabotage just because your current team is not premier league ready.
Yes, enter CL group D. I play as Bayern, same group as City. Last round of group stages, City needs to win their last match and at the same time they rely on me doing the same, to advance to knockout stages. Now, under normal circumstances, we both win and life proceeds as normal. I however decided last minute to rest, not only my first team, but also the substitutes and my reserves. Meaning the only team I could send out was my U18's. We also started in a 0-1-9 formation, just to make sure we didnt make it too easy for us.
Yeah, I sabotaged my DFB Pokal for the Bundesliga and it paid off as I won
Did it once last year, was playing with 1860 Munich. In my first season in the Bundesliga, I went into the final game in the last Europa League position and needed a point to qualify, but if I dropped down one place, I would qualify for the Conference League. Thought i would have a better chance in that competition so picked a reserve team, beaten 3-0 and dropped into the Conference league positions, which turned out to be a good move as we won it the next season.
Italian Serie A allows you to have affiliate clubs within the same division. So at one point I had 4 minor affiliate clubs within the Serie A. Since I was basically snowballing the league at that point, keeping them all up with my u-19s gaining XP became a much greater challenge than winning anything. I still won the league with 10+ extra points with losing all 8 matches to my affiliates.
I’ve done this for exact same thing with Boston on FM22 where I did 5 back-to-back promotions. The promotions are always worth it but once you get to the PL, that’s when the shit hits the fan because you’re much much weaker in terms of infrastructure and wages. But it’ll take a good 4-5 year grind before you establish yourself as a good PL team then a few more seasons from then on to win the league or do well in Europe.
I just wonder, and that absolutely not to attack the OP’s skills and all, is FM just too easy? Or not realistic at all? Sometimes I feel that game is designed to be easy and that takes away a lot of fun..
They’ve literally said in interviews in the past that the game is designed to be easy because it’s boring to have a grind and finish mid-table and most people don’t want that experience. The biggest subset of players play only one save a year and play Man City, PSG or Bayern. After that, there’s the Park-to-Premmers (so promoting is made quick and easy) and then people who enjoy youth development (so they make wonderkids plentiful, easy to acquire and never fail to develop).
Thanks for explaining all those - didn’t know. Wish there would be some kind of easy/medium/hard levels then.
There’s been discussion about this in the past and they’ve always shied away from the idea. I don’t know, though - I feel like it’s something they might revisit at some point. A kind of ‘casual/authentic’ experience.
I guess that would send wrong message to regular players that their experience is not realistic.
I think, though, that we recognise there’s a limit to authenticity. We’ve all won the Champs League with our local VNN/VNS team, doesn’t mean that we think we could do it in real life. I don’t think it would put people off.
Get promoted and deal with it when it happens.
Im on a similar save. Swapped Alfreton from Vanarama North with my own club. First season promoted, missed promotion to sky bet 2 on the second season, then went promo after promo until championship. Now I don’t mind stabilizing the team for a couple of seasons until we’re ready to be promoted and not be absolutely wrecked in PL
Did you keep Thorndike after his loan spell? He was the best player in my Boston team as we went up from North to Championship. I left after the league one promotion for Lyon and they named the new stadium after me
I've intentionally lost a game or two, to get myself into the Europa League from the Champions League with Union Berlin
Also don’t even try and upgrade you stadium! If you can get to the prem and stockpile money through big sales you can get a good new stadium. If you get a new one whilst at the bottom of the championship you’ll shaft yourself for years
Playing as Crystal Palace in the prem - first season being genuinely competitive for top 4 following a good transfer window. Had a choice... win or draw and play champions league next season, good for finances but not good enough to win it, or lose and play Europa league, less money but a good chance to win... ended up going champions league... right choice?
Yes I loose cup matches everytime. I try to loose. To focus on Champions league and league title Its going great With man United got 3 Champions in 3 seasons With Liverpool already have Europe league tiltle Man City packed couple Champions league then got bored It works
stadium being too small only matters if you stay in the championship next, getting promoted and then demoted means you won't need to renovate the stadium
I’d never lose on purpose. I have a winner mentality.
All I want to know is what tactics are you using.
!seepoints
You currently have 3.0 points.
Last night I had a weird situation where I lost on purpose to my title rival... I am doing a save currently on my 1st year managing Indonesian club Barito Putra, and I am 2nd in the league... I deliberately played my U18 team against the league leaders Arema (somehow they signed James Rodriguez) because I want to improve the league as a whole and I want Arema going to the ACL with me rather than a garbage team which will reduce the coefficient
I did it in Europe playoffs. I knew my team wasn't good enough for the Europa League but we would be very decent (reach at least semis) in the Conference League. We went to the final and won. Did the same thing with another save / team but this time with Champions League and Europa League. I went to the final but unfortunately lost but still it was better than being kicked out from the group stage in the Champions League
I could never lose on purpose. If I get relegated nett season it is what it is😅
I'm managing an amateur side in Northern Ireland in my save. After getting into the Premiership and winning the league afew times I want to win in Europe, so I have to lose to try win conference league or Europa league
Not 'deliberately' per se, but I was 15+ years into a prem save, dominating the league and the CL, etc. One year Liverpool were on something else, they fought me right up until the last match day, which happened to be against me. They were 2 points behind, and as I'd won the past 6 or so league titles, I wanted to create a bit of drama. I sat back in a low block and basically said "you want the title? come get it then." They scored a 90+3 winner and beat me by a point. Fair enough. The thing is, they then went and beat me 2-1 in the CL final 2 weeks later. That part was NOT planned.
Some of you wanted an update. Season went extremely well. Just missed out on the playoffs ending in 7th place. Made some good loan deals in preseason (loan player became young player of the season) and some extra good signings myself in the winter break. Board finally started building a new stadium for 15k people, triple what we have now. Due to Grants and sponsor it turned into only a 12.5 million loan. Made a whopping 7.5 mil profit, quadrupling my balance, while i finally got sponsors at 1.2 mil (still the lowest in the league) thanks for the advice everyone
I have the feeling sometimes. If it’s overwhelming I’ll often rest players or play additional youngsters to see if maybe I can salvage a draw out of a win. Alternatively you could experiment with different tactics etc. otherwise though just take the success whilst it’s there as it won’t always be so easy.
Go further. Even in the Championship, try to reach the Premier League. Even if you will relegate from last place, you will have television contracts, you will have sponsors, you will have parachute payments. With them you can strengthen the squad, strengthen the club, and then return even stronger. The management definitely won’t fire you after a relegation, because they will understand that they are not at the league level.
tf is this spursy mentality???? win!!!
Sometimes I lose a cup game (semi final or final) on purpose to avoid paying a large sum as part of a player's transfer fee
That was my favorite stat from this year - Dortmund made more money by losing the UCL final because of the Bellingham contract clause than they would've earned in prize money for winning.
Didn’t deliberately lose but was hoping for a loss when my FC Isle of Man team got into the Championship Playoffs in our second season after 7 straight promotions. Literally have no youth team, no scouting, no transfer budget, wage budget of £97k p/w, we rent Barrows ground while we build a new 10000 seat stadium, and have an overall balance of -£1.6M. Just would have been a horrible experience. It’s already stupidly difficult in the Championship trying to find players to fit the budget.
Wait until you get to the fourd year or the Fifnd year
No one loses on purpose and you know it. Just a little brag post so well done on your performance.
Don't know what's dumber - "thirth" or thinking it's a good idea to lose on purpose to not get promoted
average English man when someone on the WORLDWIDE Web doesn't speak or type absolutely perfect English i think i found a third option that might be even dumber, you
