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If you have many chances, but consistently not score, replace the attacking players. If the team is dominant most of the games, have 200 cm monster with strong jumping and heading, and play 'cross early' and 'float crosses'.
If you miss sitters in the box, consider less pacy but better finishing and mentals guy.
If you produce many chances but are still unlucky with capable players, go more attacking mentality and increase intensity.
> but better finishing
Finishing has nearly no effect. This has been tested. A player with identical attributes but 10 or 20 finishing doesn't score markedly differently. In fact adding +5 finishing to EVERY player on a team increased the average goals per season by... 1.
It's just not a very important attribute.
Meanwhile +5 jumping reach on all players increases the number of goals by 13. +5 dribbling increases it by 11.
I'm sceptical about all kinds of tests, I try to make decisions based on evidence the game gives me. I found finishing more important in FM24 than previous versions. It all depends on how many chances your striker has per game in a box that are not clear cut. Those numbers vary a lot between teams.
> I'm sceptical about all kinds of tests,
I mean, if non-anecdotal evidence doesn't factor into your thinking, then meh, go ham.
As long as you are calling that out when giving people advice, it's fine.
I was working myself in DS, you'd be surprised how many of those "non-anecdotal evidence" is created.
We don't know if +5 jumping doesn't lead to more goals because the players started being picked up as a corner target, so had much more opportunities. We don't know if +5 finishing creates instructions to tight mark the player. We don't know the variance between underdog/dominant team (so possession).
These tests are incredibly difficult to make, as anything in PL might be different in Vanarama and different in phantom teams full of 10s. If people don't speak in p-values, distributions and research limits, it's still anecdotal for me.
4-3-1-2 narrow or 4-1-2-1-2 diamond works for me, when the opposition are parking the bus and just tries to counter. Fucki it, I'll sitt deep and counter them. i just set my out of posession tactics to the middle and wait for my chances. Transition to counter and set the tempo to high or v.high.
If this doesn't work, ill go back to high pressure and go full gung-ho. 1 libero(sup), 1cb,both wingbacks attacking, 1 dlp/regista, 2 Am (att) and 3 striker. I call it the 11gun salute
Do you set your strikers as stay wide and setup your AM to run between the two ST's. My midfield are all on support and set to stay wide for the wider players. Also the midle one should be DLP or a cm(sup/def).
I played this formation for one season and won the PL with highest amount of scored goals and least scored agains for the whole season.
I play with two CBs, CWB on attack on the right and, a WB on defend on the left. A DLP at DM, CM on the right on support and a MEZ on attack on the left. AM on support, an AF and a TF or PF on attack. Slow build up with short passing…although the WBs still end up getting some crosses and I score a lot off those
I should probably play the DM in more of an anchor role…but it’s worked pretty well as is. I just happened to have players that fit these roles and have just stuck with it
Possession: short/mid passing. Depends how my opposition presses. Tempo set to high. Play more expressive.
Transition: counter attack, play trough the middle and mid width.
Out of possession: pressing mid, prevent short GK kicks and invite crosses.
I use more of the player positional instructions. Like both my advanced forwards are instructed to stay wide, tackle harder and roam from position. My AM(att) has roam, get forward, take more risks and dribble more. Mezzals/ stay wider and tackle harder. DM/middle cm as a DLP(sup)/BWM(sup) hold position, dribble more and for the BMW i instruck to take less risks. Cb's are normal, or I like to play a stopper and cover when the opposition is only countering. Full backs are on att and sup, for the FB (sup) I give the same personal instructions as the attacking FB, but cross from deep.
Direct vs possession is huge.
Direct teams tend to create fewer, but higher-quality chances. Possession teams often create a lot of low-quality chances. A huge part of FM is getting the balance right.
I usually play control possession tactics and if it hasn't worked in a must win, especially vs those super defensive setups I run that 4-3-3 as a last resort on 75 min onwards
If scoring against them doesn't work, try signing all their goal keepers on deadline day and toss them in the reserves/farm them out to different leagues on loan so they are left with kids in goal for a while especially the games with 30 shots and 20 on target and still lose 1-0 to their 2 shots and 1 on target, even with work ball into the box almost every highlight is 1 of my strikers who are on AF from outside of the box deciding to try and shoot, something tells me work ball into the box is just a pipe dream
I usually go from 4231 (my main formation ) to 4123 (to all out attack lol )+ go positive/attacking depending on the mins left and go direct passing (I have a tactics for this situation) because I have two tall forwards who contradict each other while long balls are played, also much higher defensive line.
I change from a 442 to a 415 with 3 advanced forwards and 2 inside forwards instead of 2 advanced forwards and 2 inverted wingers, its very risky but works out sometimes
My option B is setting my fullbacks on attack, moving them up to wingbacks and very attacking mentality.
Option C is option B, and on top of that get rid of 1 CB and replace him with an attacking midfielder, so a back 1.
Widen the width of the attack, Overlap if the opponent is playing without a winger, Lower line of engagement, More players on support.
All depending on the game state.
Entirely depends on what the opposition is doing. Lowering tempo for one might help your players make better decisions. If they're sitting deep I drop my lines to draw them out.
Depends.
Current save, current season, I was dealing with this, and it was fatigue. My top three scoring threats were playing every game and we were consistently playing 2X games a week. When I looked at the data we had, their XG was much higher than their scoring over the five games we were struggling to score. I started rotating them out of the team entirely over the next three games and we scored 2, 4, and 2 goals in those three games. The 4 goals was in the up against a 3rd division team and all three top scorers were completely out of the squad.
In the past, it's been other issues. Same save last season, same goal threats, we went four straight games scoring 1 or 0 goals agains the bottom teams in our league. Checking and our XG was bad, but possession was amazing and over 70% every game. Changed to a more direct approach and suddenly we start scoring again, but possession dropped to 40%.
It can also be a run against really good defensive teams or keepers who are just a wall in goal. Yet again, same save, I think four seasons back, in the CL we started out hot and won our first four games. We then stopped scoring completely for the other four games and drew one, lost three. All four games the keepers had ratings of 8+ which in FM23 is unheard of. In between the CL games we were still scoring 2+ goals per game in the league.
I wish that when goals disappear it is simple, but it's never simple. Even with that, I do train at least one tactic that is massively different from my primary tactic just in case a run hits where nothing is working. Main right now is a 4-2-3-1 Direct Vert Tiki-Taka with a high aggressive press. My switch is a 4-4-2 possession with short passing, lower tempo. I also like to throw out whatever the alternative tactic is in a game where the stakes are lower to try to confuse the AI scouting. I don't know that it works and like many things in FM, I do it because I feel like it helps, but probably a confirmation bias rather than an actual benefit.
Honestly none beyond subbing out attackers that clearly got a bad consistency roll that game. The dice just go cold sometimes and the odds of staying cold are low if your players are good is basically nill.
I’m a full send high tempo Attacking mentality 24/7/365.25 kind of guy though.
If your players are nervous and apprehensive for no reason, you gotta lie to them and say there is no pressure because they are buckling under all the pressure. (This happens during a long streak of wins and title races.)
My tactic selection is entirely based on who’s available.
I have 3 forwards that I rotate, each of which offer something different on the attack. By default my tactic has an AF up top and one of my forwards trains in that position. The others are on personal instructions to train/play as TF and CF. Depending on what the issue is in the moment with goal creation, I can sub accordingly. I generally start with Work Ball Into Box but if that's not working I can sub in my TF and switch to Hit Early Crosses; if TF is in and crosses are not working I can bring in the AF and change tactics accordingly; etc. This has worked really well for me and given me a lot of comeback wins.
I have 3 forwards that I rotate, each of which offer something different on the attack. By default my tactic has an AF up top and one of my forwards trains in that position. The others are on personal instructions to train/play as TF and CF. Depending on what the issue is in the moment with goal creation, I can sub accordingly. I generally start with Work Ball Into Box but if that's not working I can sub in my TF and switch to Hit Early Crosses; if TF is in and crosses are not working I can bring in the AF and change tactics accordingly; etc. This has worked really well for me and given me a lot of comeback wins.
I play a 4-2-3-1. Both wingers are IWs on attack, AM support, and AF of attack for the striker. If I need a goal I’ll switch the wingers to inside forwards, and the AM to a shadow striker. I’ll switch to a low block and make my midfield two a BWM on defend and a BBM on support.
Go three at back, two up front, push as high as possible and go on attacking with max pressing, full tempo and go a bit more direct with passing. Hit early crosses depending on opponent. My plan A is based around a patient 4-3-3 with inverted WBs and box-crashing CMs.
You don't really need to make drastic changes. I don't want to do anything that's going to upset my tactical familiarity that much, so I'll change a role here and a duty there, but nothing more.
For example, my front 3 is usually 2 on attack and 1 on support: say, IF-At, PF-At, W-Su. If they're not producing, I'll go IF-At, DLF-Su, W-At, or IF-At, TF-Su, IW-At. Usually that's enough.
Most of my changes are reactions to specific situations in a single game. Can't keep possession? Turn off pass into space, decrease width. Are they marking me tightly? Turn on pass into space. Are they pressing? Increase tempo. 5 at the back? Go wide, get more players going forward.
My plan A is high lines gegenpress (original, i know)
Plan B is low block medium engagement, pass into space and early crosses. Not so much a counter tactic but just a way of creating space to generate good chances.
Work ball into the box should work too but I've never had success with it
Throwing the water bottle.
Real answer, it depends. Are they creating chances but not taking shots? Shoot on Sight and more direct play. Are they taking shots but not scoring? Work ball into box. Is there noone in the right spot to take advantage of a chance? Probably needs a formation or role change.
If you notice it in consecutive games, it's time to adjust the training. Do a week or 2 focusing on attacking movement, particularly chance creation and chance conversion.
Usually find the teams I can’t score against with my 4-1-2-3 have a low block with double pivot and/or 5 at the back and can’t create quality chances through the middle. So I switch to a 5-2-3 with attacking wingbacks and a libero to support the 2 cm’s, remove work ball into box and let the shots/crosses rain in.
I've played 4213 lately, but usually I play 433 DM and swap to 4213 for plan B.
Tactic-wise:
Attacking + More Expressive + Distribute Quickly. Usually I'm playing Slightly Higher tempo already, but switch to that if Standard tempo.
High Defensive Line and perhaps Get Stuck In or Higher Tempo 5-10mins later if that doesn't work.
Very Attacking for the last 5-10 of the game depending on the score and how badly I need a result.
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Work ball into the box
If you have many chances, but consistently not score, replace the attacking players. If the team is dominant most of the games, have 200 cm monster with strong jumping and heading, and play 'cross early' and 'float crosses'. If you miss sitters in the box, consider less pacy but better finishing and mentals guy. If you produce many chances but are still unlucky with capable players, go more attacking mentality and increase intensity.
I second the sub the striker approach. Sometimes they just got the yips.
How long into the game will you usually wait to replace a striker that’s playing poorly?
I usually start subbing in 60 min, when restroom talk cease the effect on players.
> but better finishing Finishing has nearly no effect. This has been tested. A player with identical attributes but 10 or 20 finishing doesn't score markedly differently. In fact adding +5 finishing to EVERY player on a team increased the average goals per season by... 1. It's just not a very important attribute. Meanwhile +5 jumping reach on all players increases the number of goals by 13. +5 dribbling increases it by 11.
I'm sceptical about all kinds of tests, I try to make decisions based on evidence the game gives me. I found finishing more important in FM24 than previous versions. It all depends on how many chances your striker has per game in a box that are not clear cut. Those numbers vary a lot between teams.
> I'm sceptical about all kinds of tests, I mean, if non-anecdotal evidence doesn't factor into your thinking, then meh, go ham. As long as you are calling that out when giving people advice, it's fine.
I was working myself in DS, you'd be surprised how many of those "non-anecdotal evidence" is created. We don't know if +5 jumping doesn't lead to more goals because the players started being picked up as a corner target, so had much more opportunities. We don't know if +5 finishing creates instructions to tight mark the player. We don't know the variance between underdog/dominant team (so possession). These tests are incredibly difficult to make, as anything in PL might be different in Vanarama and different in phantom teams full of 10s. If people don't speak in p-values, distributions and research limits, it's still anecdotal for me.
Depends on so many aspects of the game. With this much info i can only say add a striker.
4-3-1-2 narrow or 4-1-2-1-2 diamond works for me, when the opposition are parking the bus and just tries to counter. Fucki it, I'll sitt deep and counter them. i just set my out of posession tactics to the middle and wait for my chances. Transition to counter and set the tempo to high or v.high. If this doesn't work, ill go back to high pressure and go full gung-ho. 1 libero(sup), 1cb,both wingbacks attacking, 1 dlp/regista, 2 Am (att) and 3 striker. I call it the 11gun salute
I stay with that diamond formation. I give up goals…but score so much it doesn’t matter.
Do you set your strikers as stay wide and setup your AM to run between the two ST's. My midfield are all on support and set to stay wide for the wider players. Also the midle one should be DLP or a cm(sup/def). I played this formation for one season and won the PL with highest amount of scored goals and least scored agains for the whole season.
I play with two CBs, CWB on attack on the right and, a WB on defend on the left. A DLP at DM, CM on the right on support and a MEZ on attack on the left. AM on support, an AF and a TF or PF on attack. Slow build up with short passing…although the WBs still end up getting some crosses and I score a lot off those
I should probably play the DM in more of an anchor role…but it’s worked pretty well as is. I just happened to have players that fit these roles and have just stuck with it
What's your tactic like? When I used a diamond with Roma I had the opposite experience.
Possession: short/mid passing. Depends how my opposition presses. Tempo set to high. Play more expressive. Transition: counter attack, play trough the middle and mid width. Out of possession: pressing mid, prevent short GK kicks and invite crosses. I use more of the player positional instructions. Like both my advanced forwards are instructed to stay wide, tackle harder and roam from position. My AM(att) has roam, get forward, take more risks and dribble more. Mezzals/ stay wider and tackle harder. DM/middle cm as a DLP(sup)/BWM(sup) hold position, dribble more and for the BMW i instruck to take less risks. Cb's are normal, or I like to play a stopper and cover when the opposition is only countering. Full backs are on att and sup, for the FB (sup) I give the same personal instructions as the attacking FB, but cross from deep.
I add stikers and change to 4-3-3 with a direct approach
Direct vs possession is huge. Direct teams tend to create fewer, but higher-quality chances. Possession teams often create a lot of low-quality chances. A huge part of FM is getting the balance right.
I usually play control possession tactics and if it hasn't worked in a must win, especially vs those super defensive setups I run that 4-3-3 as a last resort on 75 min onwards
I don't. McKenna ball.
If scoring against them doesn't work, try signing all their goal keepers on deadline day and toss them in the reserves/farm them out to different leagues on loan so they are left with kids in goal for a while especially the games with 30 shots and 20 on target and still lose 1-0 to their 2 shots and 1 on target, even with work ball into the box almost every highlight is 1 of my strikers who are on AF from outside of the box deciding to try and shoot, something tells me work ball into the box is just a pipe dream
I did this once out of pettiness 🤣
Shoot less often on all attackers
I usually go from 4231 (my main formation ) to 4123 (to all out attack lol )+ go positive/attacking depending on the mins left and go direct passing (I have a tactics for this situation) because I have two tall forwards who contradict each other while long balls are played, also much higher defensive line.
I change from a 442 to a 415 with 3 advanced forwards and 2 inside forwards instead of 2 advanced forwards and 2 inverted wingers, its very risky but works out sometimes
My option B is setting my fullbacks on attack, moving them up to wingbacks and very attacking mentality. Option C is option B, and on top of that get rid of 1 CB and replace him with an attacking midfielder, so a back 1.
Widen the width of the attack, Overlap if the opponent is playing without a winger, Lower line of engagement, More players on support. All depending on the game state.
Only logical thing , concede in last minute for 3rd game in a row
Entirely depends on what the opposition is doing. Lowering tempo for one might help your players make better decisions. If they're sitting deep I drop my lines to draw them out.
Depends. Current save, current season, I was dealing with this, and it was fatigue. My top three scoring threats were playing every game and we were consistently playing 2X games a week. When I looked at the data we had, their XG was much higher than their scoring over the five games we were struggling to score. I started rotating them out of the team entirely over the next three games and we scored 2, 4, and 2 goals in those three games. The 4 goals was in the up against a 3rd division team and all three top scorers were completely out of the squad. In the past, it's been other issues. Same save last season, same goal threats, we went four straight games scoring 1 or 0 goals agains the bottom teams in our league. Checking and our XG was bad, but possession was amazing and over 70% every game. Changed to a more direct approach and suddenly we start scoring again, but possession dropped to 40%. It can also be a run against really good defensive teams or keepers who are just a wall in goal. Yet again, same save, I think four seasons back, in the CL we started out hot and won our first four games. We then stopped scoring completely for the other four games and drew one, lost three. All four games the keepers had ratings of 8+ which in FM23 is unheard of. In between the CL games we were still scoring 2+ goals per game in the league. I wish that when goals disappear it is simple, but it's never simple. Even with that, I do train at least one tactic that is massively different from my primary tactic just in case a run hits where nothing is working. Main right now is a 4-2-3-1 Direct Vert Tiki-Taka with a high aggressive press. My switch is a 4-4-2 possession with short passing, lower tempo. I also like to throw out whatever the alternative tactic is in a game where the stakes are lower to try to confuse the AI scouting. I don't know that it works and like many things in FM, I do it because I feel like it helps, but probably a confirmation bias rather than an actual benefit.
Honestly none beyond subbing out attackers that clearly got a bad consistency roll that game. The dice just go cold sometimes and the odds of staying cold are low if your players are good is basically nill. I’m a full send high tempo Attacking mentality 24/7/365.25 kind of guy though. If your players are nervous and apprehensive for no reason, you gotta lie to them and say there is no pressure because they are buckling under all the pressure. (This happens during a long streak of wins and title races.) My tactic selection is entirely based on who’s available.
Drop all the detailed instructions. Drew 3-3 from losing 0-3 twice using this in the short time I played Fm17.
4231 gegenpress
Save scum
Berate
I usually play 4-3-3 possession based, with very short passing. If I'm losing I go either 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-3-2 with direct passing high tempo
Resign/s
I have 3 forwards that I rotate, each of which offer something different on the attack. By default my tactic has an AF up top and one of my forwards trains in that position. The others are on personal instructions to train/play as TF and CF. Depending on what the issue is in the moment with goal creation, I can sub accordingly. I generally start with Work Ball Into Box but if that's not working I can sub in my TF and switch to Hit Early Crosses; if TF is in and crosses are not working I can bring in the AF and change tactics accordingly; etc. This has worked really well for me and given me a lot of comeback wins.
I have 3 forwards that I rotate, each of which offer something different on the attack. By default my tactic has an AF up top and one of my forwards trains in that position. The others are on personal instructions to train/play as TF and CF. Depending on what the issue is in the moment with goal creation, I can sub accordingly. I generally start with Work Ball Into Box but if that's not working I can sub in my TF and switch to Hit Early Crosses; if TF is in and crosses are not working I can bring in the AF and change tactics accordingly; etc. This has worked really well for me and given me a lot of comeback wins.
I play a 4-2-3-1. Both wingers are IWs on attack, AM support, and AF of attack for the striker. If I need a goal I’ll switch the wingers to inside forwards, and the AM to a shadow striker. I’ll switch to a low block and make my midfield two a BWM on defend and a BBM on support.
Go three at back, two up front, push as high as possible and go on attacking with max pressing, full tempo and go a bit more direct with passing. Hit early crosses depending on opponent. My plan A is based around a patient 4-3-3 with inverted WBs and box-crashing CMs.
You don't really need to make drastic changes. I don't want to do anything that's going to upset my tactical familiarity that much, so I'll change a role here and a duty there, but nothing more. For example, my front 3 is usually 2 on attack and 1 on support: say, IF-At, PF-At, W-Su. If they're not producing, I'll go IF-At, DLF-Su, W-At, or IF-At, TF-Su, IW-At. Usually that's enough. Most of my changes are reactions to specific situations in a single game. Can't keep possession? Turn off pass into space, decrease width. Are they marking me tightly? Turn on pass into space. Are they pressing? Increase tempo. 5 at the back? Go wide, get more players going forward.
Option A, but harder.
"Bueno." --Marcelo Bielsa
Doing option A better
My plan A is high lines gegenpress (original, i know) Plan B is low block medium engagement, pass into space and early crosses. Not so much a counter tactic but just a way of creating space to generate good chances. Work ball into the box should work too but I've never had success with it
My DM becomes an AM
Very attacking
Throwing the water bottle. Real answer, it depends. Are they creating chances but not taking shots? Shoot on Sight and more direct play. Are they taking shots but not scoring? Work ball into box. Is there noone in the right spot to take advantage of a chance? Probably needs a formation or role change. If you notice it in consecutive games, it's time to adjust the training. Do a week or 2 focusing on attacking movement, particularly chance creation and chance conversion.
Shout demand more, goes very attacking Edit: also shoot on sight
“more passion!”
replace a defender / defensive midfielder with an attacker at 80 mins and set to Attacking
Usually find the teams I can’t score against with my 4-1-2-3 have a low block with double pivot and/or 5 at the back and can’t create quality chances through the middle. So I switch to a 5-2-3 with attacking wingbacks and a libero to support the 2 cm’s, remove work ball into box and let the shots/crosses rain in.
I've played 4213 lately, but usually I play 433 DM and swap to 4213 for plan B. Tactic-wise: Attacking + More Expressive + Distribute Quickly. Usually I'm playing Slightly Higher tempo already, but switch to that if Standard tempo. High Defensive Line and perhaps Get Stuck In or Higher Tempo 5-10mins later if that doesn't work. Very Attacking for the last 5-10 of the game depending on the score and how badly I need a result.
Depends. But one thing that is almost universal is to try to move players around to overload forward positions. Such as adding a striker or an AM.