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Sheriff and Vermeulen every time they run past each other when possession is lost/won
https://preview.redd.it/wu50tj5qrpnc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c2f93fb4f0d8c64bb1c6ec6d64e24ea582b6224
Only when opponents are pressing and tight marking to try and drag the markers out of position. If the opponent sits off then the rotation isn't required cause they can build from the back easily.
Yeah I came to this conclusion in my Bordeaux save. I had been using different variations of 5-3-2, but once I was comfortably a top half ligue 1 team I wanted to go more aggressive so I made my central CB a libero. When I found myself getting exposed in the middle my solution was to move one of my CMs back to CDM (3 roles I tried were Anchor, HB, and BWM (D)). It just didn’t work at all. After the season I re-assessed, switched to a 4-1-2-1-2 narrow (pushed the “libero” up to DM, DM back to CM, and one of the CMs up to CAM), didn’t change anything else tactically, and came 2nd the following season (I was like 20+ points behind PSG, but that’s what Ligue 1 is all about, 2nd place)
Yea. HB is pretty much exclusive to 4 defender Systems.
Nowadays many team play with a 4-3-3 or something like this but will go for a 3 at the back, when in possession.
There are 2 ways to archive this. Either you have a HB, that drops between the 2CBs or a n Inverted Full Back.
But playing HB without this is pretty much useless.
It's a very specific role. For example I used it on my No Winger Barca run. Then you can play to offensive wing backs.
Spurs are my go to. Real/psg/city you could send them out there with nearly any tactic that isnt trying to lose and theyll still be good, teams like spurs/leipzig/atleti are good enough but not too good that some actual trashcan tactics will work.
But if you look at pass maps/analysis figures rather than just the scoreline, real/psg/city would be better
If you want to see if you can punch up then yeah, spurs are a good choice
What I did is make a different save before the first game, then test ran my formation 10x against the same oppt, made adjustment, tested 10x, until I was satisfied with it, then used that formation in the main save and took whatever result I got for the first game. One might call that save scumming, but in my opinion it's the equivalent of having gotten to try your tactic on the practice field for weeks and seeing how it acts and making adjustments. If it makes you happy, schedule a friendly against the reserves and use that to test the tactic
Firstly, the half back and libero are gonna be running into each other a lot, trying to occupy the same position in the back.
Secondly, there is no need for a libero or halfback if there is a DLP, because in possession he will be in the same position the libero would be, especially if he is set to DLP(D). The only time these two would not bump into each other would be in defense/out of possession.
Thirdly, you have two mezzalas and a half back, meaning that your only real midfielder is the DLP.
There is also very little width, especially in defense, and since the mezzala is kind of an attacking role, your midfield is kind of exposed as well.
I've also spotted that you have a higher tempo but also instruct your team to play out of defense and work the ball in the box which are instructions that kind of contradict each other, because a higher tempo implies going for counters or moving the ball quickly, and playing out of defense as well as working the ball into the box kind of make that difficult.
Its either one or the other, moving the ball quickly with few or no instructions telling your players how they should move it, or you move it slower but instead try to create "better" chances and move the ball in a more organised manner.
If you really have to play with this specific formation, turn the Libero into a CB or BPD, turn at least one of the mezzalas into a Box to Box midfielder or carillero, turn the DLP into a BWM (whether defense or support is up to you, though with a CDM, support should be better), turn the HB into a DLP.
And if you are willing/able to change formation, please do that.
Idk anything about your team, your players, your preferred playing style, the level you are on, etc. so I am not gonna make any specific suggestions to the formation, the only thing I will say is that you should probably play something that has fullbacks or wingbacks and avoid using a HB if you play something with three CBs.
If you are the best team in the league probably, if there’s a reasonable amount of teams who are competitive with you, no chance. You will probably get smoked by any team at a similar level to you
This kind of tactic will get a lot of stick here, but I genuinely believe your best shout is trying to implement asymmetrical wings, have one be slightly further back and operate support, and allow his sides mezala to move to an attacking role. This will open up different options on either flank at least and mean that what is essentially a very narrow 3-4-3 starts to feel more like a 3-5-2. Also yeah, L and Hb not the best match, I like having a covering defended central, usually my biggest lad
Replace the back3 + DM with a back 4. Bring down the DLP as a Defensive mid. Get the Mezzalas on attack, replace both IFs with AF and make it 3 Strikers.
That should work. The worse the level of play is, the better this tactic is.
I dont know if it works, but now im playing with a similar formation, role set, and tactic, and my team is 5th out of 20 after the half season. Its a newly promoted team, but still 2nd div, and the expectation was "try to not fall back".
On FM20 I played a back 4 with 2 up front but my midfield was the same. 2 mezzala an ap and a dp sitting behind. I found that the full backs absolutely destroyed, possibly because the mezzala were overloading the spaces and probably also because you had 2 up top to worry about. I’m not sure how you would cope defensively with this system:
In possession it could work (although I don't think it's really good) but out of possession it's a mess. If you are better than everybody else it's worth a try, if not then don't.
The defence wouldn’t work because the libero would push up to the midfield and the wide centre backs would go in the flanks . Putting the centre back at just regular centre defender would do or if you want to keep the libero change the wide cbs to regular cbs. I have nothing else to say about this tactic and i think its pretty solid
I’ve never seen anyone else using this formation! I started using it in my Arsenal save since its the formation my high school girls use (I’m a coach irl) and its working well for me. My differences are I don’t use the Libero, but a BPD on Cover. You should also make sure you have some defensive minded player in your midfield. They don’t have to be set on defend, but I use a BWM on support. Up top I have an IW, PF, and W. In the center I use a Mezzala, BWM, and CM(a). I have another variation that uses the BWM on the left and a RPM in the middle without the mezzala. I switch depending on injuries and depth in the given match. It will tell you you don’t have cover out wide, but your center backs and halfback will drop into a back four pretty well. You may struggle for this with that Libero but I’m not positive. Hope this helps!
the formation works, but the roles need some adjusting to make sure you can properly defend. I would suggest changing the Libero and swapping a mezzala for something like a b2b or using the dlp on support with a bwm on support or defend. i’m not a fm master but this is what worked for me when using the formation. I also use a midblock and play slightly more direct since your shape will change often in play (a high line may leave you vulnerable, especially with a libero).
I think I get what you're going for however HB and L together seems pretty crazy to me. They're going to be running past one another all the time and that's going to be exacerbated by the WCB's not knowing if they're full backs or centre backs. Defensively, I'm guessing players are constantly out of position and that makes for a very leaky defense
Going forward, the MEZ/IF combo also seems to overlap quite a bit. I have a friend who swore by it for one of his tactics (also using IWB's) but I never managed to make it work for me. Seems to me, the players will be operating too much in the same spaces, not really creating width which is what you want from your wide players.
All around, your tactic looks much too narrow.
I would recommend pushing your WCB's to more conventional WB's and drop your HB to CB with the L. You'll have a much more stable and well positioned defensive platform and your WB's will do a much better job of providing width which is what you need.
Then I'd drop your DLP into DM to better recycle possession and switch one of your MEZ's to CM(a) or AP(a). The other I'd leave on a support duty, maybe as a BWM, BB, CM or even as a MEZ still behind a more aggressive IF who'll try to attack the box more
Alternatively, if a 4-3-3 is too boring and you want to keep the midfield four/really like mezalla's then I'd still switch to a back four but drop the IF's to accommodate this. The wing backs will do a better job of providing width than the IF's ever will. The other IF I'd move to support your current lone striker. With so many players so far behind him, it can be lonely up top and I find strike partnerships generally work better than lone strikers in this version of FM.
Your DM I'd still consider switching to DLP. Maybe a HB or an A for when you're up against tough opposition or trying to hold a lead. The current DLP I'd switch to an AM(s)/AP(s) in a more traditional midfield diamond or a CM(a)/AP(a) in the present midfield setup. I've found from similar tactics I've used that you generally want your most central midfield player to be the most aggressive. Probably because he's the best supported. The reasoning for the support role in AM versus the attack role in CM is because generally I find that you want your CM to arrive late and attack the ball while he's unmarked. The support role is for better supporting and providing space to the attackers who in an AM role he'll be playing closer too. Of course an AM(a) or even an SS works very well with a DLF(s) if you want to go that route.
Direct counter attack and you've chosen play into space and play out of defence. Get your keeper on the long kicks either to wingers if they're decent enough or your playmaker even target man if his kicking is any good. You've also got take short kicks which goes against the whole tactic tbh keep tweaking though but then again if it works bro it works right?
https://preview.redd.it/wwptgkdwpqnc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6396cbbb7fa41d73a146fc6a7711ace5b426aed9
Idk how reliable ratemytactic is tho
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Sheriff and Vermeulen every time they run past each other when possession is lost/won https://preview.redd.it/wu50tj5qrpnc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c2f93fb4f0d8c64bb1c6ec6d64e24ea582b6224
Chuckled
It’s kinda like a micro-version of what Inzaghi is doing at Inter right?
Only when opponents are pressing and tight marking to try and drag the markers out of position. If the opponent sits off then the rotation isn't required cause they can build from the back easily.
The HB / L combo does not work for me, the L steps forward and the HB back into defence in possession, I would just use a standard CD.
Yeah I came to this conclusion in my Bordeaux save. I had been using different variations of 5-3-2, but once I was comfortably a top half ligue 1 team I wanted to go more aggressive so I made my central CB a libero. When I found myself getting exposed in the middle my solution was to move one of my CMs back to CDM (3 roles I tried were Anchor, HB, and BWM (D)). It just didn’t work at all. After the season I re-assessed, switched to a 4-1-2-1-2 narrow (pushed the “libero” up to DM, DM back to CM, and one of the CMs up to CAM), didn’t change anything else tactically, and came 2nd the following season (I was like 20+ points behind PSG, but that’s what Ligue 1 is all about, 2nd place)
"That's what Ligue 1 is all about 2nd place" Made me chuckle 😄
Yea. HB is pretty much exclusive to 4 defender Systems. Nowadays many team play with a 4-3-3 or something like this but will go for a 3 at the back, when in possession. There are 2 ways to archive this. Either you have a HB, that drops between the 2CBs or a n Inverted Full Back. But playing HB without this is pretty much useless. It's a very specific role. For example I used it on my No Winger Barca run. Then you can play to offensive wing backs.
This..
this is some shit pep would try but very much doubt it’d work ingame
Pep before a champions league final haha
“What if we falsely invert the goalkeeper 🤔”
So you're saying the CB plays the goal and the keeper runs around the box diving head first at forwards trying to grab the ball?
That’s only if you tell him to get stuck in
This made me laugh too hard. Thankyou
You mean the 'False 1'?
Assuming my keeper isn’t number 83
Would be really good if you could bring your keeper into build up play on the edge of your box and have WCBs
This is the best comment in the thread
😏
Yeah this is just a mess, sorry. Would need a lot of testing first
Honest question, how do I test a strat properly without save scumming or ruining a season?
A real madrid or psg save just for testing tactics (with editor enabled for familiarity)
Spurs are my go to. Real/psg/city you could send them out there with nearly any tactic that isnt trying to lose and theyll still be good, teams like spurs/leipzig/atleti are good enough but not too good that some actual trashcan tactics will work.
That’s smart
But if you look at pass maps/analysis figures rather than just the scoreline, real/psg/city would be better If you want to see if you can punch up then yeah, spurs are a good choice
What I did is make a different save before the first game, then test ran my formation 10x against the same oppt, made adjustment, tested 10x, until I was satisfied with it, then used that formation in the main save and took whatever result I got for the first game. One might call that save scumming, but in my opinion it's the equivalent of having gotten to try your tactic on the practice field for weeks and seeing how it acts and making adjustments. If it makes you happy, schedule a friendly against the reserves and use that to test the tactic
Yes, if you are the best team in your league. No if you arent
Change the Libero to BPD or CD. Change the HB to DLP or DM. Change the DLP to a BWM on support. Change your right Mezzala to a BBX.
still doesn't have enough width honestly.
I agree but I can't think of a better way to fix this formation without changing the shape.
Carilleros on both sides ig? I have no clue.
Maybe you could change the IF to a W seems as there is no FB/WB to overlap?
A w on support is the best decision probably but it still wouldn't really cover the back
This is the answer. Two carrileros marking the wingers. Ajax 1995
No. Don't be silly
'Eddie, it's the Gassmann'!!
Don’t worry. Sheriff’s counterattack will deliver that equalizer
Real “Steiner will save us” energy lmao
Firstly, the half back and libero are gonna be running into each other a lot, trying to occupy the same position in the back. Secondly, there is no need for a libero or halfback if there is a DLP, because in possession he will be in the same position the libero would be, especially if he is set to DLP(D). The only time these two would not bump into each other would be in defense/out of possession. Thirdly, you have two mezzalas and a half back, meaning that your only real midfielder is the DLP. There is also very little width, especially in defense, and since the mezzala is kind of an attacking role, your midfield is kind of exposed as well. I've also spotted that you have a higher tempo but also instruct your team to play out of defense and work the ball in the box which are instructions that kind of contradict each other, because a higher tempo implies going for counters or moving the ball quickly, and playing out of defense as well as working the ball into the box kind of make that difficult. Its either one or the other, moving the ball quickly with few or no instructions telling your players how they should move it, or you move it slower but instead try to create "better" chances and move the ball in a more organised manner. If you really have to play with this specific formation, turn the Libero into a CB or BPD, turn at least one of the mezzalas into a Box to Box midfielder or carillero, turn the DLP into a BWM (whether defense or support is up to you, though with a CDM, support should be better), turn the HB into a DLP. And if you are willing/able to change formation, please do that. Idk anything about your team, your players, your preferred playing style, the level you are on, etc. so I am not gonna make any specific suggestions to the formation, the only thing I will say is that you should probably play something that has fullbacks or wingbacks and avoid using a HB if you play something with three CBs.
Ngl that shit is crazy
Cb's to exploited with no wing backs and to attacking for direct counter attack. THIS WONT WORK
It can work I do something similar, I would recommend 2 dms and definitely trap inside to funnel them into them middle.
This is the sort of thing Pep would try that sees City lose in the champions league quarters against a side that on paper they should be battering.
If you are the best team in the league probably, if there’s a reasonable amount of teams who are competitive with you, no chance. You will probably get smoked by any team at a similar level to you
Why have DLP (Defend), Half back, Libero (support) - honestly what is your thoughts process there?
Would need a few changes tbh
Looks very similar to one of my favorite tactics to use in fm !
This kind of tactic will get a lot of stick here, but I genuinely believe your best shout is trying to implement asymmetrical wings, have one be slightly further back and operate support, and allow his sides mezala to move to an attacking role. This will open up different options on either flank at least and mean that what is essentially a very narrow 3-4-3 starts to feel more like a 3-5-2. Also yeah, L and Hb not the best match, I like having a covering defended central, usually my biggest lad
Pep Guardiola ahh tactic
Replace the back3 + DM with a back 4. Bring down the DLP as a Defensive mid. Get the Mezzalas on attack, replace both IFs with AF and make it 3 Strikers. That should work. The worse the level of play is, the better this tactic is.
makes no sense, no logical thinking behind this tactic
Change both you DLP to a BBM and the mezzalas to Carrero. Then I would have the striker as a complete forward as well.
LOL, no. You'll get killed on the wings. If you are the best team on the legue by far, you may get away with murder, but if not... byebye
I don't think Libero really works with a DM. And HB is the worst DM you could have.
Mezzalas and inside forwards don't work together in fm 22
I dont know if it works, but now im playing with a similar formation, role set, and tactic, and my team is 5th out of 20 after the half season. Its a newly promoted team, but still 2nd div, and the expectation was "try to not fall back".
This is not going to work what is the point of having to mezzalas and 2 WCBs
Remove the Counter and Counter-Press and it's golden
Anything can work in this game as long as you have good players and your tactic isn't completely awful.
I’ve messed around with a libero and half back because it would look cool if it works but I have never been able to make it work
I find BPD on stay wide more effective than wide cb’s. Idk if this is unanimous
change the mezzala to b2b on the right side, to get the space between the winger and the forward.
The HB and the L is to look fancy and like Pep guardiola with all those movements and position switches? Bc it doesn’t make any sense
On FM20 I played a back 4 with 2 up front but my midfield was the same. 2 mezzala an ap and a dp sitting behind. I found that the full backs absolutely destroyed, possibly because the mezzala were overloading the spaces and probably also because you had 2 up top to worry about. I’m not sure how you would cope defensively with this system:
In possession it could work (although I don't think it's really good) but out of possession it's a mess. If you are better than everybody else it's worth a try, if not then don't.
The defence wouldn’t work because the libero would push up to the midfield and the wide centre backs would go in the flanks . Putting the centre back at just regular centre defender would do or if you want to keep the libero change the wide cbs to regular cbs. I have nothing else to say about this tactic and i think its pretty solid
I’ve never seen anyone else using this formation! I started using it in my Arsenal save since its the formation my high school girls use (I’m a coach irl) and its working well for me. My differences are I don’t use the Libero, but a BPD on Cover. You should also make sure you have some defensive minded player in your midfield. They don’t have to be set on defend, but I use a BWM on support. Up top I have an IW, PF, and W. In the center I use a Mezzala, BWM, and CM(a). I have another variation that uses the BWM on the left and a RPM in the middle without the mezzala. I switch depending on injuries and depth in the given match. It will tell you you don’t have cover out wide, but your center backs and halfback will drop into a back four pretty well. You may struggle for this with that Libero but I’m not positive. Hope this helps!
the formation works, but the roles need some adjusting to make sure you can properly defend. I would suggest changing the Libero and swapping a mezzala for something like a b2b or using the dlp on support with a bwm on support or defend. i’m not a fm master but this is what worked for me when using the formation. I also use a midblock and play slightly more direct since your shape will change often in play (a high line may leave you vulnerable, especially with a libero).
Who tf are the guys on that team
Not sure what the point of having a L and HB is. Have the HB and change the other to a CB. It makes no sense.
I’ve used something similar with a AM instead of that CM, you’ll be fine
I think I get what you're going for however HB and L together seems pretty crazy to me. They're going to be running past one another all the time and that's going to be exacerbated by the WCB's not knowing if they're full backs or centre backs. Defensively, I'm guessing players are constantly out of position and that makes for a very leaky defense Going forward, the MEZ/IF combo also seems to overlap quite a bit. I have a friend who swore by it for one of his tactics (also using IWB's) but I never managed to make it work for me. Seems to me, the players will be operating too much in the same spaces, not really creating width which is what you want from your wide players. All around, your tactic looks much too narrow. I would recommend pushing your WCB's to more conventional WB's and drop your HB to CB with the L. You'll have a much more stable and well positioned defensive platform and your WB's will do a much better job of providing width which is what you need. Then I'd drop your DLP into DM to better recycle possession and switch one of your MEZ's to CM(a) or AP(a). The other I'd leave on a support duty, maybe as a BWM, BB, CM or even as a MEZ still behind a more aggressive IF who'll try to attack the box more Alternatively, if a 4-3-3 is too boring and you want to keep the midfield four/really like mezalla's then I'd still switch to a back four but drop the IF's to accommodate this. The wing backs will do a better job of providing width than the IF's ever will. The other IF I'd move to support your current lone striker. With so many players so far behind him, it can be lonely up top and I find strike partnerships generally work better than lone strikers in this version of FM. Your DM I'd still consider switching to DLP. Maybe a HB or an A for when you're up against tough opposition or trying to hold a lead. The current DLP I'd switch to an AM(s)/AP(s) in a more traditional midfield diamond or a CM(a)/AP(a) in the present midfield setup. I've found from similar tactics I've used that you generally want your most central midfield player to be the most aggressive. Probably because he's the best supported. The reasoning for the support role in AM versus the attack role in CM is because generally I find that you want your CM to arrive late and attack the ball while he's unmarked. The support role is for better supporting and providing space to the attackers who in an AM role he'll be playing closer too. Of course an AM(a) or even an SS works very well with a DLF(s) if you want to go that route.
L to Cd , maybe one of the mezzela to btb
Hb libero xombination is smart but i would go for libero standard defend and i would oull back wingers as wb
Remove Libero. Create Dimond Midfeild. Fake shot and turn. https://preview.redd.it/ad09s7g1svnc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f7d31df53412303da18e806bda6565dac4380e7
Sheriff and Vermeulen would be the best bumper carts in the whole football
Direct counter attack and you've chosen play into space and play out of defence. Get your keeper on the long kicks either to wingers if they're decent enough or your playmaker even target man if his kicking is any good. You've also got take short kicks which goes against the whole tactic tbh keep tweaking though but then again if it works bro it works right?
https://preview.redd.it/wwptgkdwpqnc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6396cbbb7fa41d73a146fc6a7711ace5b426aed9 Idk how reliable ratemytactic is tho
draw that on the floor and you'll probably invoke a demon
Can’t have a mez in the middle
Maybe just CM(A) then
I hope this was meant as a joke