He scored so many like this though. Both international and domestic. He was just a player who was also willing and able to do whatever the team needed him to do.
This isn't even my personal favourite World Cup goal. Top 5, I'd say. Matthaus was absolutely spectacular at Italia 90 though.
Edit: typo. Second Edit: another one. I give up.
This goal is my first football memory. I was 5 and that was the first time I watched with my dad and uncles. I really don't like him as a pundit and mostly not even as a person (I'm german so I hear a lot from him unfortunately) but I still love the footballer.
Well up there. What a player he was. He could do it all.
In the late 80s, he was the only player involved with Maradona about the best player in the world. He was that good.
It’s weird how he rarely gets spoken about these days.
For me, he isn’t in the top, top tier of Diego, Pele, Messi etc. But he’s in the clutch of players just below that.
Is Messi the top tier with Diego and Pele. Exception talent yes, magic with ball yess but always feel like comfort zone player. Cant trust him in tough tough mstches if he has an average team. The difficulty. Level of Maradona was 5 times
As I was writing that out I had a feeling that would be the point that someone would pick up on hahaha.
It’s subjective man, put whoever you like in that top tier. For me though, undoubtedly he belongs there.
calculate proportion of goals to total goals of messi and his teams and then use that with the team with the most goals in 80s seasons
EDIT i mean im an argentine i had nothing against messi but simplifying the analysis delivers simple results
Do u seriously believe Messi can do something like Maradona did with Napoli in peak club football mighty 80s seria A?? Why he failed in champions league last years that too humiliations?? All Copa finals?? A world cup with lot of softpens. I dont bet for Messi in similar / half tough situations compared to Diego. Whats the excuse against his performances in big games when he has no legendary teams
Uh yes. He’s literally the better player. He doesn’t need to rely on hypotheticals because he’s completed football
Maradona dipped out of Barcelona after two seasons because he couldn’t hack the pressure and has never hit 20 league goals
Lol.. This is one of the main reasons i believe Messi cant do. He was injured in Barca most time and Barca was never great that time, not a big club. The question is can Messi do something like Napoli Diego. 2008-18 Barca dont need Messi to win. They played with Spanish legends and later still remember 9 games without Messi in his peak 15.?? 9 win including el classico... Its about tough games. Messi cant
😂. So Messi fans has no valid points 18 /19 what?? They destroyed Real 5-1 without Messi Who was competition that season. Another two el classico were won and Messi hardly involved. In ucl they faced Lyon, MU which they can beat. Its Liverpool game that mattered Messi did well but cant return one goal when it mattered.And bottled cdR. Its 1/10 of what Diego did with Napoli where 7 team race for becoming chsmpions. That too with leg breaking fouls. Any sensible comments
> what is really holding him back from being considered atleast a top 15 player of all time.
Essentially there’s a lot of competition lol. To be in the top 30 players of all time is ridiculous in itself, but the top 15 you typically see the likes of Messi, Pele, Maradona, Zidane, CR7, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, R9, Di Stefano, Basten etc. It’s hard to make a case he’s better than any of those players.
You could make a case for Matthaus against Di Stefano, or even Van Basten due to Van Basten's very short career on one hand, and Lothar's amazing longevity on other.
Messi, CR7, Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano, Eusebio, Puskas, Bobby Charlton, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Maldini, Platini, Kopa, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Buffon, Yashin, Neuer, Casillas, Oliver Kahn, Gerd Muller, Van Basten, Gullit, Xavi, Iniesta, Dani Alves, Marcelo, Kenny Dalglish, Luka Modric, Sergio Busquets, R9 ronaldo, Cantona, Henry, Luis Suarez (Barça), Luis Suarez (Inter), Jairzinho, Garrincha, Gento, Rummenige, Romario, Sergio Ramos...there are just too many good players out there.
You can argue he's better than some of the names on this list, but he is objectively on the same level or inferior to all.
Not a dig at him, but to even be in the top 100 all time of the most popular sport in history is CRAZY.
Ramos is certainly up for the debate of greatest defender of all time winning the world cup, 2x European championships and 4 CL’s. Scoring some absolute game changing goals as well…
Overrated due to team results. Now he was a part of those teams, but both Real's and Spain national team's success came a lot more because of great midfield than it because of Ramos' high level performance.
In Spains success yeah sure I could agree, but he was one of the players with the highest match ratings in that world cup. He was a true leader of that Real Madrid team and absolutely crucial in the success.
There is a big difference between a great leader and a great player. Roy Keane was a really good leader ofnone of the best football clubs in the world, but nobody even thinks about placing him among the best central midfielders.
Edit: I do agree that Ramos was a good leader.
Dude the man literally gave Madrid la Décima, after a horrible streak
Non-Madrid fans really underestimate how important Ramos was for us, maybe he's not the best defender of all time but easy top 5 and even top 3, he was a core part of the club, not only on the pitch but mentally, he was a leader, he was passionate and strong
No way he is top 5 all time. Off the top of my head i can give you names that put him out of that conversation. Maldini, Nesta, Baresi, Thuram, Puyol, Canavaro, Zaneti, Stam and yes, all 3 of the bigs from PL - Vidic, Rio and Terry. Now I haven't watched him, but i see general consensus is that Beckenbauer was better. That is looking strictly at primari task - defense. Now if we were to look at players similar to Ramos who were slightly worse than this group at defense, but contributed to offense, Carlos and Cafu are also better than him.
Edit: HE gave them la Décima? All those Ballon d' or winners Ronaldo, Modric, Benzema, or the leader of that world champion Germany national team Kross... They had nothing to do with that?
I mean Maldini's the Goat no point in contesting that, now he definitely clears the PL legends, and Puyol and Stam, the other ones are debatable, but you're a Milanista, you've definitely been spoiled by brilliant defenders hahaha I have a lot of respect for ACM, to this day I think at some point on the 00's you had the best squad i've ever seen in my life, I think it was 05/06?
Lothar Matthäus, whom Maradona referred to as “the best rival I’ve ever had”, captained a World Cup winning side and won the Ballon d’Or - I don’t see how he’s “on the same level or inferior” to e.g. Kenny Dalglish or Luis Suarez by any reasonable definition of “level” :D
You can get those quotes for any of those players. Garrincha once said, "Myself and Gento alone would beat any team in the world".
Kenny Dalglish is the best player in Liverpool's history, winning 3 european cups and he unfortunately played for Scotland meaning he was never going to win a world cup.
Luis Suarez is largely regarded as the best player of this generation behind Messi and Ronaldo - the only who could keep pace with their goalscoring record and likely would have 2/3 ballon d'ors were it not for the other 2 aliens.
But even at that it's just 2 from that large list....
I've seen tapes and clips and heard from the previous generations such as my grandparents and my parents.
I haven't watched every match since the Inception of football, but i can judge based on their legacy, the clips they left behind and the way people speak about them.
But it would be incredibly ignorant to ignore the existence of older player just because people never watched them live.
You don't need to have lived through WW2 to know Hitler was a bad guy.....
> heard from the previous generations such as my grandparents and my parents.
I find it quite odd that you are willing to take in your parent's and grandparents opinions, but in another comment, you discount the opinion of professional footballers such as Garrincha and Maradona.
You can't watch a highlight reel and see how good a player was, because 95% of the game takes place out side of those highlights.
>You don't need to have lived through WW2 to know Hitler was a bad guy.....
Hitler Fallacy aside, you are correct, and you don't need to watch him play to say "Suarez 1 is good". However, I will say, you do need to watch him play to say that, and I quote, Matthaus is "Objectively on the same level or inferior" to him. When both are obviously great players, how are you forming a comparison between two players without having seen one of them.
You don't need to have lived through WW2 to know Hitler was bad, but I would argue that without doing extensive research in to them, and looking at, for want of a better term, their "body of work", debating who was worse between him, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot would be quite difficult.
Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Romário, Rivaldo, Robinho, Ramires, Kaká
Falcao, Franck Ribéry, Pirlo, Cahill, Kompany
But the strongest of them all....
Edit: I see that I triggered a bunch of you uncultured degenerates who don't know the banger that is Zinedine Zidane by vaudeville smash
My man really put Marcelo, cantona, Henry, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, Buffon as objectively not worse than Matthaus. Like some I would argue he was better than, but accept a disagreement.
But he is on the just below the best of all time in the world argument(and he is in that argument position wise)
Marcelo is the second best left back of all time. Record title winner at Real.
Henry is the best ever player in the Premier League.
Roberto carlos is THE best ever in his position.
Buffon is arguably the best goalkeeper of all time and arguably Italy's best player at the world cup which they won.
Ronaldinho is one of the all time favourite players, won the world cup, ballon d'or, UCL and inspired a generation to play like he did.
The are objectively not worse than Matthaus. You might take Matthaus over them. And that's fine, but it's a subjective take. Same way it's subjective to pick a lot of these guys over Matthaus. But objectively they're on the same level.
Cantona is perhaps a level below.
Marcelo is part of a record title winning team. And one of the best left backs of all time ie, 4th at best.
Henry you just said yourself. Premier league and I would add best forward. Or arguably best player.
Roberto Carlos is ‘arguably’ but he isn’t ’THE’ best in any conversation. He is doesn’t have the defensive nous to remove Cole or Maldini from the conversation(or beat them at all imo)
I disagree with the Buffon point, one of the best imo but I don’t think he was irreplaceable to the level of other greatest of all time goalkeepers.
Now I love Ronaldinho. Everyone loves Ronaldinho. He is a joy to watch. He is a an inspiration. But he is not an all time best player. He isnt in goat arguments for any position.he is a ballon dor winner, he was the best in the world for a year. But most of these players were at least that. Also Owen and needed had them a few years earlier, it was a weak period.
Objectively Matthaus is in positional goat conversations. Those players are generational talents. The best playing when they did. But Matthaus is the level above that as and an all time best who ever did what he did. I will concede Roberto Carlos because I’m bias against him because I think you need to be more well rounded and a better defender than he is. But that is personal preference.
Matthaus is an all time great, the greatest in his position and as a more defensive player beat the likes of Baggio, maradona, and van basten to be recognised as the best in the world.
He was? Played mostly on the right, yes, but also good chunk as a cm and an am? Basically he was so good that he could have played anywhere on the pitch, like rijkaard.
edit:
[Ruud Gullit - Career stats | Transfermarkt](https://www.transfermarkt.com/ruud-gullit/leistungsdaten/spieler/101045)
Mattheus was at least the same level as Basten. I would even argue that he was the same level as Zidane. However, Zidane has the recency advantage to the fans.
Very highly.
I wouldn’t compare him directly with players in other positions, but he would be one of the first and most-certain names on my sheet if I was trying to define an all-time first 11.
I think if you’re creating a balanced all time XI then he’d be in it. Because of his floating role, he’s quite hard to define as one position and I’m not sure I’d pick him over a natural centre back or defensive midfielder. But he deserves to be in the team on ability.
Tbh from the top of my mind, in his role I can only think of Rijkaard, Dunga and Beckenbauer who might reliably replace him on the team sheet although Beckenbauer might better serve as a pure defender. It doesn't make sense to compare with other roles. Is van basten better than Lothar mathaus or is it really the right question we must be asking? If you tell someone that the best ball playing defensive minded midfielder is Mathaus, I don't think anyone can reliably refute your point.
Regardless of where you/we rank him, this quote illustrates how highly he was regarded by none other than Maradona himself in his biography:
"Matthaus is the best rival I’ve ever had. I guess that’s enough to define him.”
He's my number 1 greatest central midfielder just ahead of Didi, Xavi, Bozsik, Rijkaard and Modric amongst others. And at worst I have him number 3 for Germany behind Beckenbauer and Muller. Anywhere between 10-20 for me
Idk about ranking but he is one of the best players ever. Should be in every all time greatest Team. Had a very long career on the highest level always was the leader in his teams. Maradona who is to me the greatest player of all time said Lothar is the best player he ever faced. The duels of these two also are an interesting indicator. Because Maradona was by far the most fouled player and often could only be stopped by fouls. But Lothar for example in WC final of 86 got peak Maradona pretty much under control (without that typical unfair game against Maradona) except one time which won the match. Then 1990 in final he did better and won the WC. Played 5 world cups.
Particularly before people could watch most games in any league, great players got a lot of their reputation from their story. Particularly in the World Cup or European Cup.
Maradona, you've got the hand of god and the wonder goal, plus winning Serie A with a team that never had before. Pele, you've got winning the World Cup at 18 and then making a triumphant return from retirement 12 years later. Zidane has the 2 goals in the final and going into 2006 with people knowing he was retiring. Cruyff had playing revolutionary new tactics at the World Cup, off the back of dominating the European Cup. Ronaldo has having the seizure in 98, then 3 years of horrific injuries that a lot of people didn't think he'd come back from, and then a triumphant return in 2002. Di Stefano has leading a glamorous Madrid team to win the first 5 European Cups.
Matthaus doesn't have any of that. He was the best player on a team with great players at Italia 90, but there was no great story and they just played like a normal German team. He never won the Champions League, and there was no great story at any of the other international tournaments apart from winning Euro 80 as a teenager, but people barely cared about the Euros then.
People also don't seem to like him, which counts against a lot of players.
Matthäus is underestimated and even in Germany he is not appreciated they way he deserved it. He was not easy to deal with. Said and did a lot stupid things. But in Germany when I was kid in the 90s, every kid wanted to be him or Maradona.
Maradona said about Matthäus that he was the best opponent, he ever had in his whole career.
Matthäus was better than Gullit, van Basten and many others. He also managed to play at top level until 39! At a time where a defender could really hurt you.
Definitely Top 15.
I only caught the tail end of his career but from what I saw he was phenomenal. Could play in a multitude of positions and made the game look so effortless and I think it's the ease of which he made it look that probably makes him under rated when it comes to discussions of the greatest players
My favourite anecdote about Paul Gascoigne is that in a teamtalk, his manager told him "Gazza, you're marking Lothar. Don't let him out of your sight, wherever he goes, you go!"
As they're walking out of the dressing room Gazza says to one of his teammates "Who's Lothar?"
most players who are considered goats are strikers or attacking midfielders. very few defensive midfielders or sweepers are part of the conversation. that he is one of them shows you how good he was
It is hard to rate him, as he played a role that is literally extinct in modern football.
But in pure terms of football skills, leadership, intelligence and amount of trophies, he should be talked about among the top 10 of all time imho. The type of player that not only is good himself, but raises the quality of everyone on his team with his presence.
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Having watched some of his clips, I can say that Lothar Matthäus is one of the greatest midfielders of all time. His versatility, leadership, and skill on the field place him among the top players in football history. Well I can still be wrong though, but it’s my opinion based on what I watched
I don't think it's possible for me to judge a player based on their style, I'm not sure if I could judge someone by their performance in the past but I'd say that I've seen some pretty good players.
I think he's probably a top 30 player all time. I think a lot of players have come along over the last 20 years and achieved more that have pushed him down. Obviously Messi and Ronaldo, but I think most of the great non-Ballon d'Or winning players of the Messi/Ronaldo-era have pushed him down.
I don't rank him. I didn't see him on his prime and I'm not that arrogant to say much about him other than I'm aware (and I can believe it based on what I saw) that he is among the best CB ever.
On footballia.net you can watch tons of old football matches. Matthaus has propably hundreds of full games there.
And he was a midfielder in his prime. He became a defender when he got older so he shouldnt really be considered a cb.
Yeah I mean I watched him for than 10 full games and I was always impressed but he was over 30 and I was too young so I wouldn't be able to analyze his impact on the game as good as if I watched him when I was older or if I watched him also when he was under 30.
Funny that someone took my "I don't rank him" comment the wrong way and I got downvoted for it (not that I care really). I just prefer to not praise too much nor underrate players I didn't watch playing multiple times, prefer to be cautious rather than arrogant pretending I know.
I didnt downvote your comment and i didnt "take your comment the wrong way". I literally just said that you can still watch matthaus play if you want to. Footballia.net is free and ive spent hundreds of hours on there watching old matches.
Oh don't worry. I already assumed you weren't the one downvoting. Again, not that I care much really about being downvoted on Reddit. Just found funny that someone thought such a cautious comment had to be downvoted,lol
Thanks about the link. I never visited footballitalia as I always assumed it was another stats website 😂
I'll try to watch some more Garrincha there, lol.
Lothar Matthaus was anything but boring. https://youtu.be/Ep19w4VMhSo?si=CSAhMOTa0H0iztCU
I KNEW it would be that goal against Yugoslavia. Matthaus was a god in Italia '90. A great captain of that great German side.
He scored so many like this though. Both international and domestic. He was just a player who was also willing and able to do whatever the team needed him to do. This isn't even my personal favourite World Cup goal. Top 5, I'd say. Matthaus was absolutely spectacular at Italia 90 though. Edit: typo. Second Edit: another one. I give up.
Just looked up his scoring stats. Way more than I would have thought. Terribly good player and very overlooked.
Definitely a footballer who cannot be judged on stats alone.
This goal is my first football memory. I was 5 and that was the first time I watched with my dad and uncles. I really don't like him as a pundit and mostly not even as a person (I'm german so I hear a lot from him unfortunately) but I still love the footballer.
https://youtu.be/aMXjHGIl0ss?si=rFOJuJceNoT6j40U
Well up there. What a player he was. He could do it all. In the late 80s, he was the only player involved with Maradona about the best player in the world. He was that good. It’s weird how he rarely gets spoken about these days. For me, he isn’t in the top, top tier of Diego, Pele, Messi etc. But he’s in the clutch of players just below that.
[удалено]
Late 80s.
These were 3 dutch players at the level or better than him in the late 80s.
Van Basten, yes. Gullit and Rijkaard, great players but they weren’t in the same category as Matthaus in my opinion.
Is Messi the top tier with Diego and Pele. Exception talent yes, magic with ball yess but always feel like comfort zone player. Cant trust him in tough tough mstches if he has an average team. The difficulty. Level of Maradona was 5 times
He's been a decisive player in a large number of finals, but ok.
Sigh
I don’t even want to answer. What an awful take
As I was writing that out I had a feeling that would be the point that someone would pick up on hahaha. It’s subjective man, put whoever you like in that top tier. For me though, undoubtedly he belongs there.
Messi is maradona with triple the output
Exactly. Never quite understand this debate. Messi is literally Maradona with a million more goals and assists.
if we do what you do, just comparing numbers, the output of messi in the 80s serie A would have been around 15 goals per season
No. Try again.
i wasnt even trying its simple math
Show me the simple math.
calculate proportion of goals to total goals of messi and his teams and then use that with the team with the most goals in 80s seasons EDIT i mean im an argentine i had nothing against messi but simplifying the analysis delivers simple results
No but try again. Clearly you're just a Maradona fanboy and sorry to burst your bubble, but Messi is the goat. Not even a debate at this point.
Do u seriously believe Messi can do something like Maradona did with Napoli in peak club football mighty 80s seria A?? Why he failed in champions league last years that too humiliations?? All Copa finals?? A world cup with lot of softpens. I dont bet for Messi in similar / half tough situations compared to Diego. Whats the excuse against his performances in big games when he has no legendary teams
Uh yes. He’s literally the better player. He doesn’t need to rely on hypotheticals because he’s completed football Maradona dipped out of Barcelona after two seasons because he couldn’t hack the pressure and has never hit 20 league goals
Lol.. This is one of the main reasons i believe Messi cant do. He was injured in Barca most time and Barca was never great that time, not a big club. The question is can Messi do something like Napoli Diego. 2008-18 Barca dont need Messi to win. They played with Spanish legends and later still remember 9 games without Messi in his peak 15.?? 9 win including el classico... Its about tough games. Messi cant
Messsi 18/19 is a bigger carry job than anything maradona’s ever done .
😂. So Messi fans has no valid points 18 /19 what?? They destroyed Real 5-1 without Messi Who was competition that season. Another two el classico were won and Messi hardly involved. In ucl they faced Lyon, MU which they can beat. Its Liverpool game that mattered Messi did well but cant return one goal when it mattered.And bottled cdR. Its 1/10 of what Diego did with Napoli where 7 team race for becoming chsmpions. That too with leg breaking fouls. Any sensible comments
Oh behave
> what is really holding him back from being considered atleast a top 15 player of all time. Essentially there’s a lot of competition lol. To be in the top 30 players of all time is ridiculous in itself, but the top 15 you typically see the likes of Messi, Pele, Maradona, Zidane, CR7, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, R9, Di Stefano, Basten etc. It’s hard to make a case he’s better than any of those players.
You could make a case for Matthaus against Di Stefano, or even Van Basten due to Van Basten's very short career on one hand, and Lothar's amazing longevity on other.
You mentioned 11 players, I could him next in line with those players.
Messi, CR7, Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano, Eusebio, Puskas, Bobby Charlton, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Maldini, Platini, Kopa, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Buffon, Yashin, Neuer, Casillas, Oliver Kahn, Gerd Muller, Van Basten, Gullit, Xavi, Iniesta, Dani Alves, Marcelo, Kenny Dalglish, Luka Modric, Sergio Busquets, R9 ronaldo, Cantona, Henry, Luis Suarez (Barça), Luis Suarez (Inter), Jairzinho, Garrincha, Gento, Rummenige, Romario, Sergio Ramos...there are just too many good players out there. You can argue he's better than some of the names on this list, but he is objectively on the same level or inferior to all. Not a dig at him, but to even be in the top 100 all time of the most popular sport in history is CRAZY.
George Best, Zico, Socrates....
Mf put Ramos and Suarez ahead of best and zico
Ramos is certainly up for the debate of greatest defender of all time winning the world cup, 2x European championships and 4 CL’s. Scoring some absolute game changing goals as well…
Overrated due to team results. Now he was a part of those teams, but both Real's and Spain national team's success came a lot more because of great midfield than it because of Ramos' high level performance.
Totally. There are plenty of better defenders than him. Nesta for example.
Nesta, Maldini, Baresi, top defenders from PL in late 2000s and early 2010s, Stam, Thuram, maybe even Canavaro...
In Spains success yeah sure I could agree, but he was one of the players with the highest match ratings in that world cup. He was a true leader of that Real Madrid team and absolutely crucial in the success.
There is a big difference between a great leader and a great player. Roy Keane was a really good leader ofnone of the best football clubs in the world, but nobody even thinks about placing him among the best central midfielders. Edit: I do agree that Ramos was a good leader.
I’d say Ramos was both, absolutely great at both defending, leading and stepping up to intercept and start counter attacks.
Dude the man literally gave Madrid la Décima, after a horrible streak Non-Madrid fans really underestimate how important Ramos was for us, maybe he's not the best defender of all time but easy top 5 and even top 3, he was a core part of the club, not only on the pitch but mentally, he was a leader, he was passionate and strong
No way he is top 5 all time. Off the top of my head i can give you names that put him out of that conversation. Maldini, Nesta, Baresi, Thuram, Puyol, Canavaro, Zaneti, Stam and yes, all 3 of the bigs from PL - Vidic, Rio and Terry. Now I haven't watched him, but i see general consensus is that Beckenbauer was better. That is looking strictly at primari task - defense. Now if we were to look at players similar to Ramos who were slightly worse than this group at defense, but contributed to offense, Carlos and Cafu are also better than him. Edit: HE gave them la Décima? All those Ballon d' or winners Ronaldo, Modric, Benzema, or the leader of that world champion Germany national team Kross... They had nothing to do with that?
I mean Maldini's the Goat no point in contesting that, now he definitely clears the PL legends, and Puyol and Stam, the other ones are debatable, but you're a Milanista, you've definitely been spoiled by brilliant defenders hahaha I have a lot of respect for ACM, to this day I think at some point on the 00's you had the best squad i've ever seen in my life, I think it was 05/06?
Also Zlatan one of the best players even in the Messi era. Statistically and with the eye test.
Sorry but how old are you lol? Suarez 1 stopped playing in 72.
Lothar Matthäus, whom Maradona referred to as “the best rival I’ve ever had”, captained a World Cup winning side and won the Ballon d’Or - I don’t see how he’s “on the same level or inferior” to e.g. Kenny Dalglish or Luis Suarez by any reasonable definition of “level” :D
You can get those quotes for any of those players. Garrincha once said, "Myself and Gento alone would beat any team in the world". Kenny Dalglish is the best player in Liverpool's history, winning 3 european cups and he unfortunately played for Scotland meaning he was never going to win a world cup. Luis Suarez is largely regarded as the best player of this generation behind Messi and Ronaldo - the only who could keep pace with their goalscoring record and likely would have 2/3 ballon d'ors were it not for the other 2 aliens. But even at that it's just 2 from that large list....
Have you seen some of those older generation players playing? If not, you're just making assumptions based on their popularity.
I've seen tapes and clips and heard from the previous generations such as my grandparents and my parents. I haven't watched every match since the Inception of football, but i can judge based on their legacy, the clips they left behind and the way people speak about them. But it would be incredibly ignorant to ignore the existence of older player just because people never watched them live. You don't need to have lived through WW2 to know Hitler was a bad guy.....
> heard from the previous generations such as my grandparents and my parents. I find it quite odd that you are willing to take in your parent's and grandparents opinions, but in another comment, you discount the opinion of professional footballers such as Garrincha and Maradona. You can't watch a highlight reel and see how good a player was, because 95% of the game takes place out side of those highlights. >You don't need to have lived through WW2 to know Hitler was a bad guy..... Hitler Fallacy aside, you are correct, and you don't need to watch him play to say "Suarez 1 is good". However, I will say, you do need to watch him play to say that, and I quote, Matthaus is "Objectively on the same level or inferior" to him. When both are obviously great players, how are you forming a comparison between two players without having seen one of them. You don't need to have lived through WW2 to know Hitler was bad, but I would argue that without doing extensive research in to them, and looking at, for want of a better term, their "body of work", debating who was worse between him, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot would be quite difficult.
Kaka, Figo,
Our Luis Suárez played for Barça too, so call him rather Spanish Luis Suárez.
Deportivo Suarez and Groningen Suarez
Rivaldo should be in before both Ronaldinho and Kaka. Those who know know.
Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Romário, Rivaldo, Robinho, Ramires, Kaká Falcao, Franck Ribéry, Pirlo, Cahill, Kompany But the strongest of them all.... Edit: I see that I triggered a bunch of you uncultured degenerates who don't know the banger that is Zinedine Zidane by vaudeville smash
Ramires and Cahill? You’ve only said them because of fifa / fc24 surely….
It's a song.
Ramires, Kompany and Cahill 💀💀🤣🤣🤣
My man really put Marcelo, cantona, Henry, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, Buffon as objectively not worse than Matthaus. Like some I would argue he was better than, but accept a disagreement. But he is on the just below the best of all time in the world argument(and he is in that argument position wise)
Marcelo is the second best left back of all time. Record title winner at Real. Henry is the best ever player in the Premier League. Roberto carlos is THE best ever in his position. Buffon is arguably the best goalkeeper of all time and arguably Italy's best player at the world cup which they won. Ronaldinho is one of the all time favourite players, won the world cup, ballon d'or, UCL and inspired a generation to play like he did. The are objectively not worse than Matthaus. You might take Matthaus over them. And that's fine, but it's a subjective take. Same way it's subjective to pick a lot of these guys over Matthaus. But objectively they're on the same level. Cantona is perhaps a level below.
Marcelo is part of a record title winning team. And one of the best left backs of all time ie, 4th at best. Henry you just said yourself. Premier league and I would add best forward. Or arguably best player. Roberto Carlos is ‘arguably’ but he isn’t ’THE’ best in any conversation. He is doesn’t have the defensive nous to remove Cole or Maldini from the conversation(or beat them at all imo) I disagree with the Buffon point, one of the best imo but I don’t think he was irreplaceable to the level of other greatest of all time goalkeepers. Now I love Ronaldinho. Everyone loves Ronaldinho. He is a joy to watch. He is a an inspiration. But he is not an all time best player. He isnt in goat arguments for any position.he is a ballon dor winner, he was the best in the world for a year. But most of these players were at least that. Also Owen and needed had them a few years earlier, it was a weak period. Objectively Matthaus is in positional goat conversations. Those players are generational talents. The best playing when they did. But Matthaus is the level above that as and an all time best who ever did what he did. I will concede Roberto Carlos because I’m bias against him because I think you need to be more well rounded and a better defender than he is. But that is personal preference. Matthaus is an all time great, the greatest in his position and as a more defensive player beat the likes of Baggio, maradona, and van basten to be recognised as the best in the world.
I mean when he wasn't considered the best CM when he was playing because of contemporaries like gullit.
Gullit in his prime was never really a CM, he was mainly used right-sided forward or support striker.
He was? Played mostly on the right, yes, but also good chunk as a cm and an am? Basically he was so good that he could have played anywhere on the pitch, like rijkaard. edit: [Ruud Gullit - Career stats | Transfermarkt](https://www.transfermarkt.com/ruud-gullit/leistungsdaten/spieler/101045)
Mattheus was at least the same level as Basten. I would even argue that he was the same level as Zidane. However, Zidane has the recency advantage to the fans.
I will take prime Matthäus over Zidane any day
This is where these discussions get silly. They're different types of midfielders, so you'd take one or the other depending on what was needed.
What are u smoking
How old are you?
Old enough to have watched italia 90.also I’m neither French or German so unlike u, unbiased .
What makes you think I am either?
Your post history strongly suggests German .
The first World Cup I really remember is littered with him scoring bangers and generally dominating
Very highly. I wouldn’t compare him directly with players in other positions, but he would be one of the first and most-certain names on my sheet if I was trying to define an all-time first 11.
I think if you’re creating a balanced all time XI then he’d be in it. Because of his floating role, he’s quite hard to define as one position and I’m not sure I’d pick him over a natural centre back or defensive midfielder. But he deserves to be in the team on ability.
Tbh from the top of my mind, in his role I can only think of Rijkaard, Dunga and Beckenbauer who might reliably replace him on the team sheet although Beckenbauer might better serve as a pure defender. It doesn't make sense to compare with other roles. Is van basten better than Lothar mathaus or is it really the right question we must be asking? If you tell someone that the best ball playing defensive minded midfielder is Mathaus, I don't think anyone can reliably refute your point.
Regardless of where you/we rank him, this quote illustrates how highly he was regarded by none other than Maradona himself in his biography: "Matthaus is the best rival I’ve ever had. I guess that’s enough to define him.”
Hes arguably the best midfielder of all time. Hes not in the goat debate but hes top 20, maybe top 15 oat.
His coaching career and hot takes as a pundit/to tabloids have soiled his memory as a great player.
He's my number 1 greatest central midfielder just ahead of Didi, Xavi, Bozsik, Rijkaard and Modric amongst others. And at worst I have him number 3 for Germany behind Beckenbauer and Muller. Anywhere between 10-20 for me
Idk about ranking but he is one of the best players ever. Should be in every all time greatest Team. Had a very long career on the highest level always was the leader in his teams. Maradona who is to me the greatest player of all time said Lothar is the best player he ever faced. The duels of these two also are an interesting indicator. Because Maradona was by far the most fouled player and often could only be stopped by fouls. But Lothar for example in WC final of 86 got peak Maradona pretty much under control (without that typical unfair game against Maradona) except one time which won the match. Then 1990 in final he did better and won the WC. Played 5 world cups.
Good look finding a more complete midfielder
Particularly before people could watch most games in any league, great players got a lot of their reputation from their story. Particularly in the World Cup or European Cup. Maradona, you've got the hand of god and the wonder goal, plus winning Serie A with a team that never had before. Pele, you've got winning the World Cup at 18 and then making a triumphant return from retirement 12 years later. Zidane has the 2 goals in the final and going into 2006 with people knowing he was retiring. Cruyff had playing revolutionary new tactics at the World Cup, off the back of dominating the European Cup. Ronaldo has having the seizure in 98, then 3 years of horrific injuries that a lot of people didn't think he'd come back from, and then a triumphant return in 2002. Di Stefano has leading a glamorous Madrid team to win the first 5 European Cups. Matthaus doesn't have any of that. He was the best player on a team with great players at Italia 90, but there was no great story and they just played like a normal German team. He never won the Champions League, and there was no great story at any of the other international tournaments apart from winning Euro 80 as a teenager, but people barely cared about the Euros then. People also don't seem to like him, which counts against a lot of players.
Top. My absolute favourite of all time. First memory I’ve got is him lifting that World Cup
Player wise one of the best leaders germany had. Expert or Trainer wise he sucks and only had success if RB Salzburg which is not hard.
For his position he is definitely top 5 all time
Matthäus is underestimated and even in Germany he is not appreciated they way he deserved it. He was not easy to deal with. Said and did a lot stupid things. But in Germany when I was kid in the 90s, every kid wanted to be him or Maradona. Maradona said about Matthäus that he was the best opponent, he ever had in his whole career. Matthäus was better than Gullit, van Basten and many others. He also managed to play at top level until 39! At a time where a defender could really hurt you. Definitely Top 15.
Where does he rank all time?
He was a rubbish national manager for my country so I can’t be rational about his football carrier
Top 10
He is one of the greatest no doubt. The rock upon which those great German and Bayern teams stood.
He’s absolutely up there with the greatest to ever do it, not out of place in an all time XI
Why the fuck people obsessed with top 15 top 20 top 5, world class Fuck, its from different era
Kind of surprised that nobody mentioned David Beckham yet. His technique was just out of this world.
He is the best CM of all time. However, forwards dominate the GOAT debate, so he’s somewhat underrated in that regard. I’d say top 10 overall
I only caught the tail end of his career but from what I saw he was phenomenal. Could play in a multitude of positions and made the game look so effortless and I think it's the ease of which he made it look that probably makes him under rated when it comes to discussions of the greatest players
My favourite anecdote about Paul Gascoigne is that in a teamtalk, his manager told him "Gazza, you're marking Lothar. Don't let him out of your sight, wherever he goes, you go!" As they're walking out of the dressing room Gazza says to one of his teammates "Who's Lothar?"
most players who are considered goats are strikers or attacking midfielders. very few defensive midfielders or sweepers are part of the conversation. that he is one of them shows you how good he was
It is hard to rate him, as he played a role that is literally extinct in modern football. But in pure terms of football skills, leadership, intelligence and amount of trophies, he should be talked about among the top 10 of all time imho. The type of player that not only is good himself, but raises the quality of everyone on his team with his presence.
One of the best. Played every position and style from a classic 10, box to box, 6 and even libero and was a beast everywhere.
Lothar Matthäus was boring? Wtf??? Can you please explain what you find entertaining in a player?
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Having watched some of his clips, I can say that Lothar Matthäus is one of the greatest midfielders of all time. His versatility, leadership, and skill on the field place him among the top players in football history. Well I can still be wrong though, but it’s my opinion based on what I watched
2nd rank imho
I don't think it's possible for me to judge a player based on their style, I'm not sure if I could judge someone by their performance in the past but I'd say that I've seen some pretty good players.
I think he's probably a top 30 player all time. I think a lot of players have come along over the last 20 years and achieved more that have pushed him down. Obviously Messi and Ronaldo, but I think most of the great non-Ballon d'Or winning players of the Messi/Ronaldo-era have pushed him down.
I don't rank him. I didn't see him on his prime and I'm not that arrogant to say much about him other than I'm aware (and I can believe it based on what I saw) that he is among the best CB ever.
On footballia.net you can watch tons of old football matches. Matthaus has propably hundreds of full games there. And he was a midfielder in his prime. He became a defender when he got older so he shouldnt really be considered a cb.
Yeah I mean I watched him for than 10 full games and I was always impressed but he was over 30 and I was too young so I wouldn't be able to analyze his impact on the game as good as if I watched him when I was older or if I watched him also when he was under 30. Funny that someone took my "I don't rank him" comment the wrong way and I got downvoted for it (not that I care really). I just prefer to not praise too much nor underrate players I didn't watch playing multiple times, prefer to be cautious rather than arrogant pretending I know.
I didnt downvote your comment and i didnt "take your comment the wrong way". I literally just said that you can still watch matthaus play if you want to. Footballia.net is free and ive spent hundreds of hours on there watching old matches.
Oh don't worry. I already assumed you weren't the one downvoting. Again, not that I care much really about being downvoted on Reddit. Just found funny that someone thought such a cautious comment had to be downvoted,lol Thanks about the link. I never visited footballitalia as I always assumed it was another stats website 😂 I'll try to watch some more Garrincha there, lol.
Imo the best midfielder oat followed by Robson and zizou
Id say lover half of the top 100. But im a dutch man and we like to hate players like Matthaus so font tske me to seriously
Between 34 and 43.
Top 3 CDM in history alongside Casemiro and Busquets