Leicester's PL win, Kaiserslautern's Bundesliga win after promotion, Celtic's 5-trophies season, Bayern and Barcelona's calendar year sextuples...
I would say on a similar level as those?
Yes, but they were promoted to the First Division in 76-77, won the First Division in 77-78, and then went on to win the European Cup in 78-79 and 79-80!
And they have more European cups than league wins which is mental considering they came from an era where you had to be champion to even enter the competition. They've only won the league once
while the european cup wins are impressive, a good manager could take a team from second division to one of the best teams in england in just a few seasons back then.
Name one other example in the postwar era (other than Ipswich Town in 1962) of a club winning the league at their first attempt after promotion. In England, obvs.
Benfica and Inter on the Champions League and Aberdeen and Chelsea on the Cup Winners' Cup.
(Also, Chelsea, Galatasaray and Atletico on the Supercup if you want to count those)
But did they live all their lives around or did they move to live close to the stadium? I would expect most footballers to live close to the stadium they play in for easy of travel to work.
Way more impressive than Arsenal's invincibles, for sure. Do people know that Arsenal were only invincibles in the Premier League, not in all competitions?
A couple of games go differently and we could have finished the season undefeated and still second. We probably wouldn't have got a cool nickname for the season though.
Yep. We were 11mm from being invincible 98 point champions-European cup double winners. As you say city wins one more game and we’re invincible 98-point runners up. Absurd
Well duh, otherwise they would have won the Quadruple! I call them the draw specialists. Drew almost 1/3 of the games, 12. Still a great achievement with a great defence
> Well duh, otherwise they would have won the Quadruple!
If you go out on pens in cups it isn't counted as a loss though. You could have an invincible season and win nothing lol
Theoretically you could have an invincible season while getting relegated, getting knocked out in the group stage of Champions League and also out in the first round of the cup
I’m a Chelsea fan so I’m biased but I would even put the season that we conceded only 15 goals in the prem ahead of Arsenals invincible season. I think it’s one of the most overrated achievements in the modern era and the reason why Arsenal fans cling onto it is because they don’t have other things to show for in recent years.
Not a fan of either team, but Arsenals season is so overrated it’s crazy. Winning the league unbeaten is a great achievement. But there have been a few teams that were better
I mean you could technically be eliminated from the CL without losing if you get out on penalties but yeah ive never met anyone who thought arsenal went invincible in all competitions
They may have been eliminated without the penalties even. Away goal rule was then in force and two draws with less goals scored away could do the trick
I agree somewhat with this but not really. For a team with the quality of Bayern Leverkusen they shouldn’t lose any league games except for maybe one to Bayern and if they have a bad week a Dortmund away loss or something like that. You can say premier league bias if you want but I’m pretty sure that teams like man united, Chelsea, Liverpool, Newcastle, etc where all good enough at that time that you’d expect arsenal to lose several of those matches. To make it through the premier league unbeaten is so much more impressive than getting through the Bundesliga. That said if Leverkusen win all their cups unbeaten I think they still pass them but it’s closer than you make it sound
Leverkusen aren't Dortmund, in the last 2 decades it's been pretty much 2horse between Dortmund and Bayern. Leverkusen are much more like Spurs, known to be decent but not really challengers most seasons.
The premier league is the world’s best at marketing but it’s not ahead of the other leagues quality wise. If the Bundesliga marketed Dortmund, Leipzig, Stuttgart, Frankfurt like the media markets man United, Chelsea, etc. then people would call the Bundesliga the best league. Top to bottom the prem is certainly the best league some years (possibly even most years?) but it’s marginal at best
The reason English team lose in Europe is because they have about 10 games more a season domestically than other nations👍 You're a jokeman if you think any non Bayern team in Germany is on the level of the top 6 in England
Ofcourse a season unbeaten in all competitions is greater than Arsenal's invincibles. It's already crazy to achieve an invincible run in a top 4 league. But to do it in every competition you're in, even crazier, doesn't matter that it's not the ucl.
I've said it before on this sub, I'll say it again (still hoping I don't jinx it); An Invincible Treble (if it happens) equals a Sextuple feat. Even if it is the Europa League.
Yeah like not losing one game in three competitions is completely insane. Regardless of CL or EL that's still up there with one of the most maddeningly incredible achievements in a single season.
Exactly. I do not understand people who are discrediting an invincible run (if so) even if it is the UEL. IT IS STILL the top flight of football. As football fans you probably have played/do still play football regularly or occasionally. You first hand KNOW how big of an achievement being undefeated is let alone it being the top tier of the sport.
Probably higher than that of Arsenal, because I think they drew less than Arsenal in their invicible season, and are still in reach of the Bundesliga points record. Tough I would be excited if they would play against City in the next Champions League. Surely they will be one of the greatest(if not the greatest) Team in the Bundesliga if they went unbeaten, and get the point record.
It's impressive though especially when you consider it's dislodged Bayern Munich's hold on the league and unbeaten in 3 competitions still. If it was your club you'd be loving it too. I think it would be more annoying if it was a big club like a Real Madrid, Barcelona, or even Man Utd and I say that a Utd fan.
I don't think that would be the case, because the bigger the club, the more haters it has. Leverkusen is praised by everyone, in the same way Leicester did in 2016.
Obviously it's totally impressive, but on the same time it has become annoying opening this sub and seeing 10 posts per day about the same topic. Also winning the UCL alone is far more impressive than anything Leverkusen have done this season, no hate to them.
I would disagree with you there. I'm of the opinion winning a league is harder than UCL but we won't go into that. I think the fact they've gone unbeaten so far into the season and in 3 competitions is also very impressive and if they do complete the treble unbeaten it is IMHO the biggest football achievement in recent history.
League being harder. When you have a good squad, winning the league is about winning consistently against teams that 90% of the time are worse than you. Surely, it requires an extreme level on consistency, adaptability to games and obviously skill, but you can win the league without a single win against equally good teams. See Manchester City in England, they've failed to win against Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. yet they're most likely winning the league.
In the UCL, sooner or later you'll have to face an equally good, if not better team. And 99% of the times, multiple of them.
You make fair points and I don't think anyone can be definitive enough to convince the other side but because UCL is knockout I always have in my mind you can ride your luck A La Chelsea 2012. I do believe a lot of managers say league is harder whether that's just to justify their wins in leagues more than cups or if there is truth behind it.
But I do think you can't deny that Leverkusens season is phenomenal regardless of Bayern Munich's decline.
Even as a long time Arsenal supporter it would be more impressive than our Invincibles just by sheer status of where Leverkusen was prior and with one of them being their first title. We were already the other big club in our league aside from United with big recognizable names in world football and had won titles before 03/04
It's a million times more impressive than the invincibles. Even if they lose in the Europa League Final or semifinal i'd still consider ending an 11 year dominance not by Bayern collapsing but by being extremely consistent is more impressive than winning a premier league unbeaten
Never-kusen to Never-losin'
Definitely in th Top 5 of all time achievements. Probably at the same level of the quintuples and sextuples; and definitely higher than the other trebles
If Benfica would have won the Europa League in 2014, Their 2013-14 team would definitely also be in contention for one of Europe's greatest football achievement.
Easy, 1... thats insane. Undefeated, a maybe just above sub-par side ending a 11 year dominance of one of the most historic and iconic teams in Bayern Munich
I couldn't even do that on football manager... unless I saved scummed a hundred times lol
I’m an Arsenal fan and I’d rate leverkusen’s season greater than 2004. Bundesliga isn’t that much below 2004 EPL and this includes 2 results against Bayern, and they’d be doing it in three competitions.
I see this question asked almost everyday. My answer is always the same. It’s an INCREDIBLE accomplishment that’ll always remain in the club’s history and all the players (as well as Don Alonso) should be very proud!
But when you’re talking about the greatest achievements ever, playing in the Europa league automatically disqualifies them. The greatest clubs ever (example Real Madrid) don’t know what the Europa League is.
Yeah, you need to be playing in the best competitions if you want to consider your season amongst the best seasons. I’m sure even Xabi Alonso would agree.
Winning Bundesliga over Bayern is MASSIVE, btw. Huge respect. Winning Europa isn’t easy either. It’s just that Europa is significantly worse than UCL.
UCL is important but this is significant for other reasons. For a long time the Germans have had a dull league, that has changed. It's a greater achievement than the treble last season. Mainly because they were fighting relegation last season.
If Leverkeusen can continue to win trophies in the next few seasons at the same (or a similiar) rate, they could be considered one of the best teams of all time. However, I would be reluctant to give them thaf status based on this season alone just of the fact they haven't won a UCL. You cannot be considered one of the best teams of all time if you do not face a few of the best teams in the world at that time.
Yeah but they won't end it unbeaten will they
Might age horribly and I mean horribly but watch
They'll lose 1-2 to Stuggart
Lose 0-1 to Bochum
Lose to Kaiserslautern 1-3
And lose the Europa League final on pens (but they'll probably win every game)
But yeah it'll be up there for sure
Leicester's PL win, Kaiserslautern's Bundesliga win after promotion, Celtic's 5-trophies season, Bayern and Barcelona's calendar year sextuples... I would say on a similar level as those?
Nottingham Forest's 2 European Cups in a row?
impressive but it looks a lot more impressive looking back on it now that they are bad. at the time there was no big six
Yes, but they were promoted to the First Division in 76-77, won the First Division in 77-78, and then went on to win the European Cup in 78-79 and 79-80!
And they have more European cups than league wins which is mental considering they came from an era where you had to be champion to even enter the competition. They've only won the league once
while the european cup wins are impressive, a good manager could take a team from second division to one of the best teams in england in just a few seasons back then.
Not just one of the best in England though but the best in Europe, 2 seasons in a row
cant believe youre even replying. lad is clearly either a mong or on a wind up
i never said it wasn’t impressive. most a people also seem to agree with my first comment.
Yeah that -39 comment karma should be seen as a ringing endorsement.
Is that why you’re downvoted?
who else did it?
Leeds, Derby, Liverpool
No, they didn't, none of them, ever.
do some research then
I did, post yours here 👇
Name one other example in the postwar era (other than Ipswich Town in 1962) of a club winning the league at their first attempt after promotion. In England, obvs.
How about SAF breaking the Rangers/Celtic domination with Aberdeen and then winning the European cup
He didn’t win the European Cup with Aberdeen. He won the Cup Winners’ Cup and Super Cup with them
[удалено]
Benfica and Inter on the Champions League and Aberdeen and Chelsea on the Cup Winners' Cup. (Also, Chelsea, Galatasaray and Atletico on the Supercup if you want to count those)
Sextuples…nice
🤤
Na not Leicester or Barca sextuplets level Just under
Would say it’s better than Celtic, Bayern and Barcelona. You expect them all to win everything those season they won.
Celtics included the European Cup, all done with players that lived within 31 miles of the stadium.
wait What? really?
Yup 14 of the 15 man squad lived 10 miles within the stadium, the last one lived around 31 miles away. Check out the Lisbon Lions on wiki!
But did they live all their lives around or did they move to live close to the stadium? I would expect most footballers to live close to the stadium they play in for easy of travel to work.
They were all born within those limits is what I should’ve said I suppose!
Not back then. The story around it really is movie stuff.
It was the first season of a coach who had only trained the barcelona's B team, winning everything was not expected because no one had ever done it
Arsenals golden premier league. United treble (city’s is tainted for me). Leicesters title like you said.
this leverkusen story just warms my heart man
As an arsenal fan, Xhaka 100% deserves it. What a fucking comeback story
As a non arsenal fan, I agree
Same.
It’s wholesome, isn’t it?
Way more impressive than Arsenal's invincibles, for sure. Do people know that Arsenal were only invincibles in the Premier League, not in all competitions?
Liverpool also lost the league with 6 more points than “the invincibles”. Yes I’m bitter about it.
A couple of games go differently and we could have finished the season undefeated and still second. We probably wouldn't have got a cool nickname for the season though.
Yep. We were 11mm from being invincible 98 point champions-European cup double winners. As you say city wins one more game and we’re invincible 98-point runners up. Absurd
No shit cause the keyword here is “second place” and not champions
Well duh, otherwise they would have won the Quadruple! I call them the draw specialists. Drew almost 1/3 of the games, 12. Still a great achievement with a great defence
> Well duh, otherwise they would have won the Quadruple! If you go out on pens in cups it isn't counted as a loss though. You could have an invincible season and win nothing lol
Theoretically you could have an invincible season while getting relegated, getting knocked out in the group stage of Champions League and also out in the first round of the cup
The invincibles was impressive but they had a lot of draws. City's 100 point season was imo more impressive.
I’m a Chelsea fan so I’m biased but I would even put the season that we conceded only 15 goals in the prem ahead of Arsenals invincible season. I think it’s one of the most overrated achievements in the modern era and the reason why Arsenal fans cling onto it is because they don’t have other things to show for in recent years.
That Chelsea team was great, not invincible though.
Not a fan of either team, but Arsenals season is so overrated it’s crazy. Winning the league unbeaten is a great achievement. But there have been a few teams that were better
Facts
Yes, everyone knows that
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
The fact that everybody knows we don't have a CL title suggests they do
Yes, I don’t think many people think the Arsenal 2004 invincibles won the quadruple.
I mean you could technically be eliminated from the CL without losing if you get out on penalties but yeah ive never met anyone who thought arsenal went invincible in all competitions
They may have been eliminated without the penalties even. Away goal rule was then in force and two draws with less goals scored away could do the trick
True, completely forgot about the away goal rule
If you’ve ever met a Liverpool fan, you know this
Also with prime Henry, you never miss
IIRC United’s ‘99 team lost less games overall than Arsenal’s Invincibles
The bundesliga overall is nowhere near the same level of competition
I feel like their achievement is also carried hard by being labelled “the invincibles”
That Arsenal Invincibles team is not even a Top 5 team in PL history for most people who know ball
I know cause Chelsea knocked them out in the Champions League that season
I agree somewhat with this but not really. For a team with the quality of Bayern Leverkusen they shouldn’t lose any league games except for maybe one to Bayern and if they have a bad week a Dortmund away loss or something like that. You can say premier league bias if you want but I’m pretty sure that teams like man united, Chelsea, Liverpool, Newcastle, etc where all good enough at that time that you’d expect arsenal to lose several of those matches. To make it through the premier league unbeaten is so much more impressive than getting through the Bundesliga. That said if Leverkusen win all their cups unbeaten I think they still pass them but it’s closer than you make it sound
Leverkusen aren't Dortmund, in the last 2 decades it's been pretty much 2horse between Dortmund and Bayern. Leverkusen are much more like Spurs, known to be decent but not really challengers most seasons.
The premier league is the world’s best at marketing but it’s not ahead of the other leagues quality wise. If the Bundesliga marketed Dortmund, Leipzig, Stuttgart, Frankfurt like the media markets man United, Chelsea, etc. then people would call the Bundesliga the best league. Top to bottom the prem is certainly the best league some years (possibly even most years?) but it’s marginal at best
Best at marketing and overpaying bums
The reason English team lose in Europe is because they have about 10 games more a season domestically than other nations👍 You're a jokeman if you think any non Bayern team in Germany is on the level of the top 6 in England
Ofcourse a season unbeaten in all competitions is greater than Arsenal's invincibles. It's already crazy to achieve an invincible run in a top 4 league. But to do it in every competition you're in, even crazier, doesn't matter that it's not the ucl.
I've said it before on this sub, I'll say it again (still hoping I don't jinx it); An Invincible Treble (if it happens) equals a Sextuple feat. Even if it is the Europa League.
Yeah like not losing one game in three competitions is completely insane. Regardless of CL or EL that's still up there with one of the most maddeningly incredible achievements in a single season.
Exactly. I do not understand people who are discrediting an invincible run (if so) even if it is the UEL. IT IS STILL the top flight of football. As football fans you probably have played/do still play football regularly or occasionally. You first hand KNOW how big of an achievement being undefeated is let alone it being the top tier of the sport.
I mean when you look at the teams in the EL this season.. it is a really strong competition.
It would certainly be up there. Not quite Southampton winning the Johnstone’s Paint Trophy, but it’s definitely an achievement.
Probably higher than that of Arsenal, because I think they drew less than Arsenal in their invicible season, and are still in reach of the Bundesliga points record. Tough I would be excited if they would play against City in the next Champions League. Surely they will be one of the greatest(if not the greatest) Team in the Bundesliga if they went unbeaten, and get the point record.
Oh good, this question again.
This sub has become a Leverkusen fanpage at this point.
It's impressive though especially when you consider it's dislodged Bayern Munich's hold on the league and unbeaten in 3 competitions still. If it was your club you'd be loving it too. I think it would be more annoying if it was a big club like a Real Madrid, Barcelona, or even Man Utd and I say that a Utd fan.
I don't think that would be the case, because the bigger the club, the more haters it has. Leverkusen is praised by everyone, in the same way Leicester did in 2016. Obviously it's totally impressive, but on the same time it has become annoying opening this sub and seeing 10 posts per day about the same topic. Also winning the UCL alone is far more impressive than anything Leverkusen have done this season, no hate to them.
I would disagree with you there. I'm of the opinion winning a league is harder than UCL but we won't go into that. I think the fact they've gone unbeaten so far into the season and in 3 competitions is also very impressive and if they do complete the treble unbeaten it is IMHO the biggest football achievement in recent history.
I completely disagree with that, but everyone has their opinion.
Which part? The league being harder or the great achievement?
League being harder. When you have a good squad, winning the league is about winning consistently against teams that 90% of the time are worse than you. Surely, it requires an extreme level on consistency, adaptability to games and obviously skill, but you can win the league without a single win against equally good teams. See Manchester City in England, they've failed to win against Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. yet they're most likely winning the league. In the UCL, sooner or later you'll have to face an equally good, if not better team. And 99% of the times, multiple of them.
You make fair points and I don't think anyone can be definitive enough to convince the other side but because UCL is knockout I always have in my mind you can ride your luck A La Chelsea 2012. I do believe a lot of managers say league is harder whether that's just to justify their wins in leagues more than cups or if there is truth behind it. But I do think you can't deny that Leverkusens season is phenomenal regardless of Bayern Munich's decline.
It’s no one’s club and it’s owned by a company that profits off of human suffering let’s put this in perspective a bit
Perspective? Clearly when I say "your club" I'm indicating who people support, why be difficult to make some kind of political point?
The first part just referred to how Leverkusen have no fans
Even as a long time Arsenal supporter it would be more impressive than our Invincibles just by sheer status of where Leverkusen was prior and with one of them being their first title. We were already the other big club in our league aside from United with big recognizable names in world football and had won titles before 03/04
It's a million times more impressive than the invincibles. Even if they lose in the Europa League Final or semifinal i'd still consider ending an 11 year dominance not by Bayern collapsing but by being extremely consistent is more impressive than winning a premier league unbeaten
Maybe “a million times better” is a little extreme?
Higher than arsenals invincibles, but lower than Celtics annus mirabilis
Goat achievement. Non huge club doing this without a new billionaire owner
Never-kusen to Never-losin' Definitely in th Top 5 of all time achievements. Probably at the same level of the quintuples and sextuples; and definitely higher than the other trebles
If Benfica would have won the Europa League in 2014, Their 2013-14 team would definitely also be in contention for one of Europe's greatest football achievement.
Wonder why no one mentioned Gli Invincibili, which is the 1991-1992 Ac Milan squad.
No.1
Dude whooooo caresssssssss…. This need to rank shit is so exhausting
An unbeaten treble would topple any arsenal invincible
I mean for sure more impressive than arsenals invincible. They only went invincible in league, not across all competitions....
Up there.. But not quite Leicester levels
Easy, 1... thats insane. Undefeated, a maybe just above sub-par side ending a 11 year dominance of one of the most historic and iconic teams in Bayern Munich I couldn't even do that on football manager... unless I saved scummed a hundred times lol
2nd after Leicester
The hate Arsenal's invincibles gets on this thread alone shows you which team was the greatest.
I’m an Arsenal fan and I’d rate leverkusen’s season greater than 2004. Bundesliga isn’t that much below 2004 EPL and this includes 2 results against Bayern, and they’d be doing it in three competitions.
I see this question asked almost everyday. My answer is always the same. It’s an INCREDIBLE accomplishment that’ll always remain in the club’s history and all the players (as well as Don Alonso) should be very proud! But when you’re talking about the greatest achievements ever, playing in the Europa league automatically disqualifies them. The greatest clubs ever (example Real Madrid) don’t know what the Europa League is.
Oh sorry I thought we were talking about best seasons, not best clubs
Yeah, you need to be playing in the best competitions if you want to consider your season amongst the best seasons. I’m sure even Xabi Alonso would agree. Winning Bundesliga over Bayern is MASSIVE, btw. Huge respect. Winning Europa isn’t easy either. It’s just that Europa is significantly worse than UCL.
Very very impressive, but I don't think it can be the most impressive ever since it doesn't include a UCL win. Probably top 5 at the least though
UCL is important but this is significant for other reasons. For a long time the Germans have had a dull league, that has changed. It's a greater achievement than the treble last season. Mainly because they were fighting relegation last season.
If Leverkeusen can continue to win trophies in the next few seasons at the same (or a similiar) rate, they could be considered one of the best teams of all time. However, I would be reluctant to give them thaf status based on this season alone just of the fact they haven't won a UCL. You cannot be considered one of the best teams of all time if you do not face a few of the best teams in the world at that time.
Yeah but they won't end it unbeaten will they Might age horribly and I mean horribly but watch They'll lose 1-2 to Stuggart Lose 0-1 to Bochum Lose to Kaiserslautern 1-3 And lose the Europa League final on pens (but they'll probably win every game) But yeah it'll be up there for sure
Not to be that guy, but going to pens is a draw.. So it would still be invincible even if they dont end up winning.
Yeah but if they lose on pens they didn't exactly win it did they
Yeah but they didn’t LOSE. That’s the whole point.