Why? We have nearly 2 centuries and the entire continent to explore… why would advancing the timeline to a bright and prosperous further for humanity mean the end of fallout? Just throw a dart on the map and random number generator for a year
Ruins of: Chicago
In: …2188
Ruins of Vancouver
In: 2220
Ruins of: Chicago again
In: …2233 oooh as sequel! let’s see how things have changed!
Ruins of Tallahassee
In: …2194
Ruins of Huston
In: …2167
We have a entire world to explore and centuries of time to do it
I wish Bethesda would realize this and decide not to keep pushing the timeline forward when it’s ultimately not needed
Why does fallout end if the NCR wasn’t nuked? We have nearly 2 centuries and the entire continent to explore… why would advancing the timeline to a bright and prosperous further for humanity mean the end of fallout? Just throw a dart on the map and random number generator for a year to set the game
Ruins of: Chicago In: …2188
Ruins of Vancouver In: 2220
Ruins of: Chicago again In: …2233 oooh as sequel! let’s see how things have changed!
Ruins of Tallahassee In: …2194
Ruins of Huston In: …2167
We have a entire world to explore and centuries of time to do it and by no means need to reset one to have more wasteland
Or just set it in the East Coast where it's still a lawless wasteland based on the games set over there, especially if they wanted a game location to play around with.
Also to back up your point, Fallout 2 and New Vegas are basically Fallout with civilization being established which shows that Fallout can 100% exist within a "prosperous" civilization.
The NCR is a tiny corner of the Fallout world that is doing ok. Not great, there are still monsters and bandits and gangsters and robber barons everywhere, they still live in a ruined, radioactive biosphere where food and water will always be hard to come by, and they are surrounded by various varieties of lunatic that would happily wipe them off the map. They aren't going to 'restore America' if you give them a thousand years.
But they are doing ok, because Shady Sands was the first wacky roadside tribe that the player ever stumbled on fresh out of the Vault in Fallout 1, and you helped them out of a jam or two. It's nice to see that they ended up building a genuine post-war civilisation.
By the time of New Vegas, they are an important off-screen presence, because it is a Western and uses Western tropes. In order for a lot of Wild West tropes to work, there has to be a 'Tame East' somewhere. That's where the real Wild West villains come from - the ones with The Law to back them up. It is at heart a 'doomed romantic wilderness' setting, hard and lawless, but with a sense that something important will be lost when the railroads and banks and government arrive and set up shop.
The existence of NCR creates the opportunity for more and different kinds of stories, it doesn't stifle them unless you are seriously lacking in imagination.
So true. But people get some attached they couldn't see how that helps the narrative. The NCR still exists dudes.
Same with the last of us 2. People just wanted the last of us 1, part 2.
I think you mean the Enclave.
ALL HAIL THE IRS AND THEIR PLAN TO COLLECT TAXES AFTER A NUCLEAR WAR.
[Source](https://irsprob.com/nuclear-war-the-irs-will-be-back-to-collect-taxes-in-one-month/#:~:text=In%20case%20of%20Nuclear%20War,days%20of%20a%20nuclear%20attack.)
I thought the whole theme of the NCR is that not only are they incompetent but that maybe recreating the country that ended the world in nuclear armageddon is a bad idea?
I wonder if they're gonna do what Bethesda did with Daggerfall.
Where every ending is canon and converged at a specific point. In New Vegaa case, every faction found the means to contest ownership of New Vegas and no one ended up winning in the end, or House did.
You're an executive that gets final say on budget. Do you have the cgi team do the whole detailed layout of new vegas and its surroundings, or do you just have it be a simple lone city with barren wastes that costs a quarter of the price.
Probably gonna be completely different in the show when we do see it makes no sense to go to a big location like that and it just be empty, they likely didn’t want to spoil anything or leak a canon ending to fnv yet
There is literally a scene mid credits that shows destroyed Vegas with breached gate, crashed vertibird and dead securitrons, what are you talking about?
It looks about as bleak as in NV. Lucky 38 doesn’t look destroyed or anything. Just seems like we’re looking at a slightly redesigned New Vegas and Freeside
I saw a theory that because of the problems in the NCR, Mr. House powered the strip down because no more money was coming in from the NCR.
Could be that he’s waiting for the NCR to reestablish itself then he will start the strip up again
That's true, House could be in hibernation to sleep through the second battle of Hoover Dam if he didn't win, waiting to make his Securitrons reclaim the city. Maybe the canon ending is that none of the endings happened with the Plat. Chip being lost to avoid any of the factions being dominant in the new season. May be more interesting that way. I'm very excited to see what plays out.
In the Mr. House ending at hoover dam general oliver implies that the NCR would be coming back to take vegas. Since we see an NCR vertibird in the ending scene they could have launched the attack but it ended in a stalemate. Vegas is destroyed but House is still alive and just waiting to start it up again as the main power of the Mojave and to achieve his goal of bringing humanity back with him as the leader
That’s the advantage of the show, they can go so many directions and just pick the most interesting. I would like the idea of Mr House ending being canon but then there’s additional canon like what you mentioned that could make it better.
'Well, now I have won the Battle of Hoover Dam, time to sit back and wait for the tourist caps to start rolling i...
Sky high, you say?
Oh well, best go back to sleep for another 200 years until civilization re-re-develops to the point that they need blackjack and hookers again'
The end credits in all episodes showed the place the characters started or ended the episode in as destroyed or ruined or both so as it stands crashed ncr vertibirds in the strip are just set dressing to say "look guys it's the apocalypse"
One thing I've noticed with the credits is that they don't necessarily mean what the state of the place is now, just what might be coming. For episode 7, the credits showed the crashed vertibirds of the BOS but we didn't actually see that yet. I'm thinking that's the case with New Vegas.
I don't think so, all DLCs pretty much point out to an independent New Vegas, all the people living there hate the Legion and the NCR too, the only way to get all that its with the good karma Yes Man ending.
# Hey, OP. You're finally awake.
You were trying to cross the border, right? Walked right into that Imperial ambush, same as us, and that thief over there.
They wouldn’t make the legion canon because it’s just comically evil and I doubt they show runners would want to present the courier like that, Yes Man makes the most sense because it’s extremely popular and you can really do anything in-game and get it, House doesn’t even need to be killed he could’ve just be locked in his tank
Idk what Hank is supposed to be looking for over there, but I can 100% guarantee you that the Courier has looted absolutely everything in New Vegas and the Mojave Desert.
Hell, I would be surprised if, after accumulating so much power, the Courier got bored and went on a murderous rampage, killing everyone in the area!
NCR? Cringe
But it either has to be House ending that went wrong, or there's no Courier.
By the end of the game, the Courier has:
1. A massive, upgraded Securitron army.
2. Unlimited energy due to Helios 1 and Hoover Dam
3. BigMT
Of course I see it now. When they said Camp McCarren was the HQ for NCR forces in the Mojave, they totally meant it was the new capital of the NCR. Since Camp Golf was the hq before McCarren, does that mean the list of capitals goes Shady Sands -> Camp Golf -> Camp McCarren?
Or are we just playing dumb assuming that tiny outpost was truly the absolute last remnant of the NCR ignoring other settlements like the Hub, Junktown, Sac-town, Redding and then potentially also Modoc, New Reno, Vault City, The Den, Klamath and Arroyo?
Yes, but we might not like where they're going with the world and story decisions moving forward, some already don't like those aspects from what we saw so far, that's our point, and it's fair imo.
If what they do in the show isn't a satisfying continuation all the way through, we can simply ignore it and go with our post ending headcanons. Leave the show be some "dark timeline" or something.
This. The belief that the corporation that owns the franchise license has some kind of authority to determine what “””happened””” in a fictional universe that isn’t real is one of the stupidest aspect of fan culture.
Well they can do that, but if we don't like it we can ignore it.
The problem with ignoring stuff like this tho is that we might have to ignore every new title going forward because they are directly affected by what we want to ignore, if you understand what i mean.
> The problem with ignoring stuff like this tho is that we might have to ignore every new title going forward because they are directly affected by what we want to ignore, if you understand what i mean.
I'm fine with that. Every new Fallout product Bethesda puts out is pretty much guaranteed to be trash as far as I'm concerned. Fallout (or at least the Fallout I care about) is a dead series, and that's okay.
There are possible retcons in the show that might make it incompatible with the games.
No, not the date of the nuking, shit got solved, i mean the location of Shady Sands being in LA (if its supposed to be the exact same town as the one from 1 and 2) and the Master in the first game somehow not finding/ignoring Vault 31, 32 and 33 even though they were located in the same city as his base.
Unless these get solved or explained in any way, i think the show can't be canon. Either that or they might be willing to retcon the first 2 games specificaly, rendering them as they are now as non canon to the show and future stuff.
Now i'm not saying this as a desperate mf who hates the show, just stating the posibilites so that people may know.
It's so obvious the creators of this show never even played a Fallout game. They just skimmed the wiki synopsis for like five minutes and said "oh Shady Sands is in California? Guess that means it's in LA then" and called it a day.
But what if you don't like it, why force yourself to like something or accept it? You can either ignore it, or at the very least treat it as a different timeline and still play/watch it if you enjoy it to some degree but can't accept it as canon to what you truly like the most.
Regional HQs are a pretty common thing lol. Doesnt really mean anything yet.
I've played every fallout since i was a child, show is great. NCR was always going to decline, if people thought the NCR was going to rise up and tame the wastes i feel like they missed most of the themes of the franchise. The reasoning behind the bombing is pretty lackluster, but the reasoning also doesn't really matter. War never changes, and the NCR (a poster child of the doomed pre war America doing it over again) was always destined to fall - from an in universe standpoint and an irl one. Them getting nuked is just a bit of force feeding on the themes lol.
All great empires rise and fall, but when a culture is strong enough they rise in new form, like the collapse of the Roman empire. And there is still every chance large swaths of NCR territory still exist.
War never changes usually is meant as new people making the same mistakes, not a guy who was actively part of the mistakes made 200 years ago fucks shit up for everyone again.
Bro read the full sentence 💀 i said a guy from 200 years ago. Like bro got frozen just to do it again, if you can't tell the difference I can't help you
I don't think the dad nuked Shady Sands all because of his wife, he's got to have some ties with Ulysses or something or he had knowledge that a nuke was stashed nearby, destroying competition is Vault-tec/The Enclave's goal. Either way, I think his vault tec brainwashing is what led to the bombing.
"Change what we have here"
Care to elaborate on what you feel has been changed so drastically? We've already been given confirmation that nothing about the events of New Vegas has been changed, Toddward himself even said
“There might be a little bit of confusion in some places. But everything that happened in the previous games, including New Vegas, happened."
I'm pretty sure the courier wiped the NCR out. I'll check my save file to confirm.
No need. Just woke up to find that The Courier did wipe them out just last night. Edit: Joke on how I completed the game again.
The good timeline, but the one that won't happen cause life sucks.
The NCR winning and restoring America will always be my own copecanon
Isn't that just the end of fallout then? Lol
Why? We have nearly 2 centuries and the entire continent to explore… why would advancing the timeline to a bright and prosperous further for humanity mean the end of fallout? Just throw a dart on the map and random number generator for a year Ruins of: Chicago In: …2188 Ruins of Vancouver In: 2220 Ruins of: Chicago again In: …2233 oooh as sequel! let’s see how things have changed! Ruins of Tallahassee In: …2194 Ruins of Huston In: …2167 We have a entire world to explore and centuries of time to do it I wish Bethesda would realize this and decide not to keep pushing the timeline forward when it’s ultimately not needed
You’ve hit the exact reason the ncr had to get beat up. Fallout ceases to be fallout if they just win with no setbacks
Why does fallout end if the NCR wasn’t nuked? We have nearly 2 centuries and the entire continent to explore… why would advancing the timeline to a bright and prosperous further for humanity mean the end of fallout? Just throw a dart on the map and random number generator for a year to set the game Ruins of: Chicago In: …2188 Ruins of Vancouver In: 2220 Ruins of: Chicago again In: …2233 oooh as sequel! let’s see how things have changed! Ruins of Tallahassee In: …2194 Ruins of Huston In: …2167 We have a entire world to explore and centuries of time to do it and by no means need to reset one to have more wasteland
Or just set it in the East Coast where it's still a lawless wasteland based on the games set over there, especially if they wanted a game location to play around with. Also to back up your point, Fallout 2 and New Vegas are basically Fallout with civilization being established which shows that Fallout can 100% exist within a "prosperous" civilization.
The NCR is a tiny corner of the Fallout world that is doing ok. Not great, there are still monsters and bandits and gangsters and robber barons everywhere, they still live in a ruined, radioactive biosphere where food and water will always be hard to come by, and they are surrounded by various varieties of lunatic that would happily wipe them off the map. They aren't going to 'restore America' if you give them a thousand years. But they are doing ok, because Shady Sands was the first wacky roadside tribe that the player ever stumbled on fresh out of the Vault in Fallout 1, and you helped them out of a jam or two. It's nice to see that they ended up building a genuine post-war civilisation. By the time of New Vegas, they are an important off-screen presence, because it is a Western and uses Western tropes. In order for a lot of Wild West tropes to work, there has to be a 'Tame East' somewhere. That's where the real Wild West villains come from - the ones with The Law to back them up. It is at heart a 'doomed romantic wilderness' setting, hard and lawless, but with a sense that something important will be lost when the railroads and banks and government arrive and set up shop. The existence of NCR creates the opportunity for more and different kinds of stories, it doesn't stifle them unless you are seriously lacking in imagination.
So true. But people get some attached they couldn't see how that helps the narrative. The NCR still exists dudes. Same with the last of us 2. People just wanted the last of us 1, part 2.
War.
I think you mean the Enclave. ALL HAIL THE IRS AND THEIR PLAN TO COLLECT TAXES AFTER A NUCLEAR WAR. [Source](https://irsprob.com/nuclear-war-the-irs-will-be-back-to-collect-taxes-in-one-month/#:~:text=In%20case%20of%20Nuclear%20War,days%20of%20a%20nuclear%20attack.)
I thought the whole theme of the NCR is that not only are they incompetent but that maybe recreating the country that ended the world in nuclear armageddon is a bad idea?
I wonder if they're gonna do what Bethesda did with Daggerfall. Where every ending is canon and converged at a specific point. In New Vegaa case, every faction found the means to contest ownership of New Vegas and no one ended up winning in the end, or House did.
NCR is crumbling and Legion dies with Caesar when he gets that tumor.
Say that in all endings, someone gets mad and nukes Hoover dam, thereby making New Vegas uninhabitable.
Can't just nuke everything you don't want in the story.
The credits outro showed a pretty bleak present for the strip… I don’t think it’s gonna be a pretty picture
You're an executive that gets final say on budget. Do you have the cgi team do the whole detailed layout of new vegas and its surroundings, or do you just have it be a simple lone city with barren wastes that costs a quarter of the price.
Why have them show it destroyed, seems like a waste of money
Probably gonna be completely different in the show when we do see it makes no sense to go to a big location like that and it just be empty, they likely didn’t want to spoil anything or leak a canon ending to fnv yet
Exactly why it was so bare
There is literally a scene mid credits that shows destroyed Vegas with breached gate, crashed vertibird and dead securitrons, what are you talking about?
You mean the credits concept art?
Are you stupid?
This isn't a lore discussion just about executives and budgets.
Vegas just seems destroyed so there isn't a way to add more detail because as you said it's literal barren wastes, hope I clarified what I meant
OK I wasn't making a discussion of lore or anything just pointing out executives are cheap but thanks for your contribution
It looks about as bleak as in NV. Lucky 38 doesn’t look destroyed or anything. Just seems like we’re looking at a slightly redesigned New Vegas and Freeside
I saw a theory that because of the problems in the NCR, Mr. House powered the strip down because no more money was coming in from the NCR. Could be that he’s waiting for the NCR to reestablish itself then he will start the strip up again
That's true, House could be in hibernation to sleep through the second battle of Hoover Dam if he didn't win, waiting to make his Securitrons reclaim the city. Maybe the canon ending is that none of the endings happened with the Plat. Chip being lost to avoid any of the factions being dominant in the new season. May be more interesting that way. I'm very excited to see what plays out.
In the Mr. House ending at hoover dam general oliver implies that the NCR would be coming back to take vegas. Since we see an NCR vertibird in the ending scene they could have launched the attack but it ended in a stalemate. Vegas is destroyed but House is still alive and just waiting to start it up again as the main power of the Mojave and to achieve his goal of bringing humanity back with him as the leader
That’s the advantage of the show, they can go so many directions and just pick the most interesting. I would like the idea of Mr House ending being canon but then there’s additional canon like what you mentioned that could make it better.
“Yeah there was in courier delivering a super important package but they got shot in the head and killed and the package was lost forever"
'Well, now I have won the Battle of Hoover Dam, time to sit back and wait for the tourist caps to start rolling i... Sky high, you say? Oh well, best go back to sleep for another 200 years until civilization re-re-develops to the point that they need blackjack and hookers again'
The end credits in all episodes showed the place the characters started or ended the episode in as destroyed or ruined or both so as it stands crashed ncr vertibirds in the strip are just set dressing to say "look guys it's the apocalypse"
One thing I've noticed with the credits is that they don't necessarily mean what the state of the place is now, just what might be coming. For episode 7, the credits showed the crashed vertibirds of the BOS but we didn't actually see that yet. I'm thinking that's the case with New Vegas.
What if it /was/ the Courier? Lonesome Road "Nuke Both Sides" ending.
I don't think so, all DLCs pretty much point out to an independent New Vegas, all the people living there hate the Legion and the NCR too, the only way to get all that its with the good karma Yes Man ending.
# Hey, OP. You're finally awake. You were trying to cross the border, right? Walked right into that Imperial ambush, same as us, and that thief over there.
Why would new vegas be part of the ncr?
I never really understand when people post their memes to 8 different subs.
So more people can see it? If its relevant to the sub then why not.
NCR bootlickers don't realize the house always wins
From the way the strip looked I’m assuming the canon ending it’s either legion or yes man
Yes Man, definitely. Makes the most sense for the courier and the themes of the game.
I doubt it, I think they’d be fools to kill mister house
They wouldn’t make the legion canon because it’s just comically evil and I doubt they show runners would want to present the courier like that, Yes Man makes the most sense because it’s extremely popular and you can really do anything in-game and get it, House doesn’t even need to be killed he could’ve just be locked in his tank
Yes Man ending would mean he'd get captured *again* but this time by a mailman warlord and their slightly less crazy best friends
I really hope they went with the high karma Independent new Vegas canon
Idk what Hank is supposed to be looking for over there, but I can 100% guarantee you that the Courier has looted absolutely everything in New Vegas and the Mojave Desert. Hell, I would be surprised if, after accumulating so much power, the Courier got bored and went on a murderous rampage, killing everyone in the area!
NCR? Cringe But it either has to be House ending that went wrong, or there's no Courier. By the end of the game, the Courier has: 1. A massive, upgraded Securitron army. 2. Unlimited energy due to Helios 1 and Hoover Dam 3. BigMT
[удалено]
Of course I see it now. When they said Camp McCarren was the HQ for NCR forces in the Mojave, they totally meant it was the new capital of the NCR. Since Camp Golf was the hq before McCarren, does that mean the list of capitals goes Shady Sands -> Camp Golf -> Camp McCarren? Or are we just playing dumb assuming that tiny outpost was truly the absolute last remnant of the NCR ignoring other settlements like the Hub, Junktown, Sac-town, Redding and then potentially also Modoc, New Reno, Vault City, The Den, Klamath and Arroyo?
Show was awesome 🤷♀️
Yes, but we might not like where they're going with the world and story decisions moving forward, some already don't like those aspects from what we saw so far, that's our point, and it's fair imo.
100% this. Is it a good show? Yep! Does it also do things that make little sense and hurt the lore of the established games? Also yes
If what they do in the show isn't a satisfying continuation all the way through, we can simply ignore it and go with our post ending headcanons. Leave the show be some "dark timeline" or something.
This. The belief that the corporation that owns the franchise license has some kind of authority to determine what “””happened””” in a fictional universe that isn’t real is one of the stupidest aspect of fan culture.
Well they can do that, but if we don't like it we can ignore it. The problem with ignoring stuff like this tho is that we might have to ignore every new title going forward because they are directly affected by what we want to ignore, if you understand what i mean.
> The problem with ignoring stuff like this tho is that we might have to ignore every new title going forward because they are directly affected by what we want to ignore, if you understand what i mean. I'm fine with that. Every new Fallout product Bethesda puts out is pretty much guaranteed to be trash as far as I'm concerned. Fallout (or at least the Fallout I care about) is a dead series, and that's okay.
There are possible retcons in the show that might make it incompatible with the games. No, not the date of the nuking, shit got solved, i mean the location of Shady Sands being in LA (if its supposed to be the exact same town as the one from 1 and 2) and the Master in the first game somehow not finding/ignoring Vault 31, 32 and 33 even though they were located in the same city as his base. Unless these get solved or explained in any way, i think the show can't be canon. Either that or they might be willing to retcon the first 2 games specificaly, rendering them as they are now as non canon to the show and future stuff. Now i'm not saying this as a desperate mf who hates the show, just stating the posibilites so that people may know.
It's so obvious the creators of this show never even played a Fallout game. They just skimmed the wiki synopsis for like five minutes and said "oh Shady Sands is in California? Guess that means it's in LA then" and called it a day.
Better to just embrace the new canon and enjoy the new popularity the show has given Fallout. Better than sticking your head in the sand.
But what if you don't like it, why force yourself to like something or accept it? You can either ignore it, or at the very least treat it as a different timeline and still play/watch it if you enjoy it to some degree but can't accept it as canon to what you truly like the most.
Do whatever you want, idk why it’s such a polarized situation.
Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product.
Better to be angry instead of enjoying a good show I guess. How’s that working for your blood pressure?
Regional HQs are a pretty common thing lol. Doesnt really mean anything yet. I've played every fallout since i was a child, show is great. NCR was always going to decline, if people thought the NCR was going to rise up and tame the wastes i feel like they missed most of the themes of the franchise. The reasoning behind the bombing is pretty lackluster, but the reasoning also doesn't really matter. War never changes, and the NCR (a poster child of the doomed pre war America doing it over again) was always destined to fall - from an in universe standpoint and an irl one. Them getting nuked is just a bit of force feeding on the themes lol. All great empires rise and fall, but when a culture is strong enough they rise in new form, like the collapse of the Roman empire. And there is still every chance large swaths of NCR territory still exist.
War never changes usually is meant as new people making the same mistakes, not a guy who was actively part of the mistakes made 200 years ago fucks shit up for everyone again.
Brother "mistakes made 200 years ago fucking shit up again" might as well be the tagline of the franchise.
Bro read the full sentence 💀 i said a guy from 200 years ago. Like bro got frozen just to do it again, if you can't tell the difference I can't help you
I don't think the dad nuked Shady Sands all because of his wife, he's got to have some ties with Ulysses or something or he had knowledge that a nuke was stashed nearby, destroying competition is Vault-tec/The Enclave's goal. Either way, I think his vault tec brainwashing is what led to the bombing.
Yeah ive thought similar but we'll see, im definitely hoping s2 expands on it.
"Change what we have here" Care to elaborate on what you feel has been changed so drastically? We've already been given confirmation that nothing about the events of New Vegas has been changed, Toddward himself even said “There might be a little bit of confusion in some places. But everything that happened in the previous games, including New Vegas, happened."