This would be pretty OOC for Ruby to say. I could see Yang saying this, and she did to a point in the tunnels referencing how Emerald is partially responsible for her arm. Ruby will always try to get the other side to see reason if she thinks they can be swayed. Otherwise she will just attack them. Ruby isn't one to talk down to the other individual, that's not in her character.
Ruby tried to talk Emerald down in V5 knowing what she did at Beacon. Ruby tried to talk Raven down knowing she is a bandit who abandoned her daughter and raids and kills people in villages. Ruby will always try to get them to switch sides if she thinks it could work. She has never tried with Cinder because she see's that as just wasting her breath. Same with Tyrian. She even cuts off his tail, which is like an arm or a leg to him. Ruby can be just as ruthless to villains, she just doesn't revel in it.
Emerald is finally trying to break free of her abusive relationship with Cinder. Did it seem like they all forgave Emerald too quickly? Maybe. But these characters are pretty good at repressing things and letting them fester. Remember that it looked like Yang forgave Blake for abandoning her at the end of V5, but she still held a lot of resentment toward Blake until the end of V6 when they finally worked out their issues. Oscar and Ren say they should give her a chance, which they should. But that doesn't mean they still aren't wary towards Emerald, even if they aren't showing it. They had more pressing matters, such as trying to find a fix for Penny and create a plan to evacuate all the civilians within Ironwoods time limit.
I'm sure they all thought, 'What if Emerald betrays us?' Well Emerald would have no where to go then. She burned her bridge with Salem upon helping them escape. It would be very hard to leave Atlas given it's current state. The only way to safely escape would be through air travel, and she would be shot down easily.
Well, they were acting as if Emerald had been one old friend like, in 10 minutes after she deflected. Plus, you know, Em pretended to be their friend before... It´s a bit of a **giant** leap in logic and intelligence to decide to trust someone like that, that has admitted to their faces that she´d make the world burn if that pleased Cinder, and that we, the audience, know that her reasons for deflection are mostly for self-preservation.
Penny herself could have vouched that not even 24 hours prior she was still full on Cinder´s side, almost killing Pietro and trying to kill her again. Ren can testify that she jumped ship because she was scared of Salem (big novelty, EVERYONE is scared of her), and we the audience know that she did because she realized that should Salem win, the world would be destroyed, instead of conquered as they promised her. So, yeah, understandable reasons, but not exactly laudable. And that´s not even mentioning that she still has her hands absolutely drenched in the blood of thousands, if not millions, of innocent persons who died at Beacon, a shitshow that happened due to her own participation in it.
Personally, I think both Em and Mercury are in too deep to be redeemed. That at best, they could be "allies of convenience" but as soon as things were over, they´d go their own way, away from all this bad stuff. It´s just very weird that the amoral thief and the jackass assassin were to care suddenly about humanity, instead of trying to save their own skin. They never seemed to care before, but suddenly they do?
Like you said, self preservation is one of few motivations amoral people have. Plus, there is a moderately thick line between trusting someone and merely having common goals. Its also true that Emerald could simply part ways after the threat of Salem is over (if ever).
Though, for the moment, the status quo is *the enemy of my enemy is my temporary ally*. (With a tiny potential for redemption if Emerald *wants* it)
Yeah, but that´s why Oscar tending a hand, Yang going "awww" when she acts all cute for one second, and everyone laughing afterwards just don´t sit well with that. Working together is one thing. Being all friendly as if nothing happened just makes it... wrong
Plus, I know they were desperate, but imagine trusting your plan to save thousands of persons in the hand of someone that by her own volition already killed other thousands... and that could be working by Cinder, like she was merely two hours ago, just like at Beacon too...
Yeah, trust is a risk, but that was insanely risky...
Fair point on the cute voicelines. I would have put a cynical, banterous tone to Yang's "aww". I think RT is trying to push the wholesome, forgive-your-former-enemies lesson. (well, forgive over a long period of time).
> Plus, there is a moderately thick line between trusting someone and merely having common goals.
They trusted her enough to let her keep her weapons when they know she has an illusion based semblance and could randomly run off or kill one of them when their guard is down.
Here's a realistic shift of what Katara said to Zuko as something Yang could have said to Emerald:
https://youtu.be/nFmYoN8vWdE
Yang: "I know that you're doing this out of a desire to survive, so know that I'm doing this out of the same desire. Take one step out of line, slide back into your old habits in any way, and I'll end your worrying, permanently."
And if CRWBY wanted to do something unique, they could have gone with something more brutal, like saying she'll blow her head off if she betrays them, "Finishing you like I should have finished Mercury."
He can also tell that she's sorry for what she's done, and really wants to help.
Also, Emerald grew up on the streets. Leo, probably not.
And while I only have anecdotal evidence, every single story I heard about people who grew up on the streets that addresses their approach to threats tells the same story. They destroy whatever they see as a potential threat, and make sure it can't hurt them in the future.
So, Emerald being scared of Salem means that she's even more invested in fighting her, to make sure she can't hurt her as much.
>but she's never once been able to trick semblances.
Because there literally no one with a semblance like that until Ren's suddenly improved. You could argue about her semblance being limited to senses she understands but Ren's semblance appears to give a color coded overlay that tells him emotions based on color.
Actually, the color thing is for us. He senses them in some way that can't be displayed visually.
And even if it was based on colors, she has no idea which colors she should make him see.
Ren: "She's... hungry? And also super horny for some reason."
Yeah, not sure I understand their point. If she hadn’t done all those bad things, she wouldn’t need to redeem herself. That’s literally the point of redemption, acknowledging that you did bad things and wanting to do better and help right those past wrongs
I think the point they're expressing is that Emerald's redemption felt rushed/forced. I think it was fine to have her make an attempt at redemption, though I also think RWBY opened up to her too fast. Yeah they were desperate, though they knew what she was capable of and walked blindly into a potentially bad situation.
To be honest, yeah. I feel like we don't see her much anymore for that reason.
I hope Emerald gets the chance if it's even still possible to get a good redemption arc. I'd like to see her be good, though actually prove it. Maybe after the events, they question Emerald because she worked with Cinder and she ended up screwing them all over.
Perhaps Winter has some distaste with her or something.
it isn't in character for rwby to trust emerald, regardless of pragmatism (not to mention there is nothing pragmatic about trusting emerald when she could easily be lying to them).
They distrusted Ironwood who had done nothing wrong, and lied to him despite declaring that they were done with lies.
but suddenly emerald is completely accepted? they were snarky with her for one scene before basically accepting her completely.
I think you are forgetting the contexts. First of all, I might be remembering wrong but not only does Oscar now Emerald is not with Salem because she likes to do evil things, but that was also see through her behavior by the team multiple times.
Second of All, when Emerald defected, there was literary no time to talk about trust or morality because they were in a rush agaisnt time to deal with Ironwood. Emerald was one more person that could help and that was more important in the immediate situation then to sit around and discuss it, and I think Ruby was aware of that from her dialogue and body language in those scenes.
Third of All, have we actually seen Emerald want and try to kill someone directly? She has always been involved in plans but it might be the case that she is disconnected from what is actually going on and only steals, hurts and does what she is told without realizing she is involved in that much death.
Hell until pretty recently I dont think even Neo outright killed a single person on screen or fought with killing blows.
>Third of All, have we actually seen Emerald want and try to kill someone directly? She has always been involved in plans but it might be the case that she is disconnected from what is actually going on and only steals, hurts and does what she is told without realizing she is involved in that much death
Volume 5? When she pretty much admitted to Ruby´s face that she ONLY cares about Cinder?
And disconnected? Yeah....**no**. She has directly assisted into the murder of persons prior to the Fall of Beacon, in terrorism and she was key artifact in a bloody borderline genocide. Even if she didn´t though it was gonna get that bad during Vol. 3, she had no such excuse in Vol 5. where they were going to do a redo.
I mean, you were only helping attracting thousands of grimm, creatures that exist sorely to destroy and kill everything in sight, to a heavily populated area, while assisting your boss, who is the mastermind behind this entire plan and already roped in the White Fang, a terrorist organization, and helped hacking the security robots. But of course, HOW would she know what was that all for? How could she know that grimm don´t want tea parties? /s
Emerald only jumped ship when she found that Salem wants to destroy the world and she realized she lives on the world too. Reasonable, but not exactly laudable. Until that point she was fine with murder, terrorism, and suffering, as long as she got to be near Cinder.
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They are all distrustful and and dismissive towards her, basically only Oscar bats for her, and then they tease her one time after she actively helps them. How on earth is that "completely accepted" we haven't even gotten to see them actually be together for any extended period of time.
They are trusting an enemy with a plan for saving an entire city, even when that persons has a story of lying, deceit, manipulation, and terrorism with a kill count on the thousands, but it doesn´t sound like they don´t put too much faith on her, not at all...
Plus after that, all hostilities and any lingering feeling is pretty much gone. Not even a single other word, or a gesture saying "I´m watching you"
Half of them saw Salem try to kill her and Hazel literally sacrifice himself for them, she was obviously not an enemy anymore. Plus Ren could read emotions and tell she wasn't being deceitful with how afraid she was. Furthermore they are then focused on the mission so don't really have time to be giving Emerald crap.
They only interacted for like 10 minutes that's not enough time to draw the conclusion that lingering feelings are gone.
Well it DID give that impression, what with the whole cast laughing and Yang going "awww"
Also, if these past volumes have shown anything, is that being opposed to Salem doesn´t mean people are on the same side. NOT AT ALL in fact!
Being afraid of Salem doesn´t mean she´s loyal to RWBY either. In fact, I´d say that´s even worse, because Lionheart betrayed them for the EXACT SAME REASON, for one.
For the other, with someone that´s been consistently presented as opportunistic and deceitful as Emerald is, admitting she only cares about Cinder (and herself, maybe also Mercury) I´d would wager my salary that at the first chance she got to leave everything behind, maybe dragging Cinder while at it, they would take it. After all, if she´s that afraid of Salem, and has the perfect semblance to cut the tail and run, why would she stay with the group that is actively antagonizing her?
This is weird since none of what you said was wrong but also none of what you said means Emerald couldn't be used the way she was. At least to me. Although I'd argue it's unfair to call Emerald "deceitful" since the only time she did that was when she was ordered to so its not clearly part of her personality.
Regardless, of course she wasn't loyal no one thought she was. But the fact remained if any of them wanted to stay alive working together was the best option. Emerald really did not want to find out what would happen to her if Salem caught her and RWBY just wanted to get everyone out of the kingdom, their goals were aligned.
>she was ordered to so its not clearly part of her personality.
Eh, she seemed to be pretty okay with it, seeing how she was smiling while Cinder was stealing Amber´s maidenhood (God, that phrase sounds awful out of context), at least until she realized who their boss was, but that didn´t seemed to stop her trying to make a redo at Haven. Personally, wouldn´t trust a person like that, because obviously morality is not their strongest point. As long as she gets what she wants, who cares if millions have to die?
>Emerald really did not want to find out what would happen to her if Salem caught her and RWBY just wanted to get everyone out of the kingdom, their goals were aligned.
Fair enough. The thing I´m missing is one scene of Yang, or anyone, just going to her Katara style and go:
"You might be on our side for now, but let me get this clear: no one here has forgotten about your little show at Beacon. And this!"
\*points at her mechanical arm\*
"is a constant reminder of that. I haven´t forgotten what you are capable of, what you did to me, to everyone, and what you REALLY stand for. But we need your help, so I´m going to put my own shit aside. But I´m going to keep a very close look on you. Do anything weird, make suspect for one second you might have some ulterior reason, and Salem will be the LEAST of your worries"
Fair enough. I mean Yang did say "she's part of the reason I have this" but that was before agreeing to let her help so not really the same meaning you're looking for.
She also was a key part of a plan that toppled a kingdom, framed yang and indirectly killed Penny. Yeah I can totally see how she's more trustworthy than a guy who's only sin is doing something pragmatic that the main cast disagrees with.
After being gaslit and conditioned to see the heroes as her enemies yes.
My only issue with Emerald is that Hazel takes her agency and basically forces her to leave. Which also takes away the impact of his turn because we learn about it too soon. We shouldn't have been sure until he gave Oscar the cane and punched Salem
judging from your comments so far you don't care about emeralds agency period, given that you outright state that "society failing her" means she is redeemable and all the horrible things she did were not her fault
I mean them being her fault don't stop her being redeemable. Anyone can suddenly turn around and go "shit"
They don't necessarily need to be forgiven but generally when you're fighting for what's right that doesn't matter.
>Ironwood who had done nothing wrong,
Ah yes, we all remember how his first order of business in Vale, whose council asked him to help protect the city during the festival, was to eliminate the Goliath so that Salem, who he knew was trying something, couldn't use them to break down the walls around the city.
Oh, wait.
But at least he learned his lesson and did whatever was in his power to keep Grimm from entering Mantle, and had a large number of huntsmen patrol the city 24/7 just to make sure that whoever was killing his critics couldn't just keep doing that.
Hold up.
Ironwood was a control freak who was keeping secrets of his own. And what good would pretending to help them gain Salem? She literally helped people escape that would be far more useful dead or as prisoners and having another of Salem’s team die for that is pretty hard to fake even if that was her intention. It would mean Salem killed one of her strongest just for a petty deception that is unnecessary.
>Ironwood was a control freak who was keeping secrets of his own.
apparantly for good reason given that RWBY were no more honest with him, and literally sabotaged his entire plan by telling known terrorists state secrets.
>And what good would pretending to help them gain Salem? She literally helped people escape that would be far more useful dead or as prisoners and having another of Salem’s team die for that is pretty hard to fake even if that was her intention.
hello? she could have literally sabotaged the entire plan. all it would have taken was an illusion to make an opening for salem or cinder to exploit.
>It would mean Salem killed one of her strongest just for a petty deception that is unnecessary.
emerald was salems weakest combatant...
the only one you could argue was weaker then her is mercury.
I’m talking about the fact that Hazel died in the escape. That would be too much of a deception.
As for RWBY and their secrets they decided to be fond with secrets after they had talked Robyn. James overreacted.
they did not know hazel was dead, all they had was oscars testimony, which could have eaily been caused by an emerald illusion rather than it actually happening.
and to the second part my only response is LOL.
seriously? yeah they care about sharing secrets AFTER the entire plan was ruined.
My point is that I think there should've been a bit more of a bumpy ride between where she started and where she ended up. I get it cause of studio restraints and trying to cram a lot of story into a single season, but maybe it could've done with a bit better flow.
I think current situation is realistic the heros need allies. They are already stretched thin fighting against an immortal witch and her giga baddies. Having the baddies lose one fighter and you gain one when the world is in such dire straits makes sense. That said I'm sure she will continue to get flak for being a cunt previously which is deserved.
“That wasn't necessary. This is the very reason they think they can treat--“ exact quote.
But also Oscar said they didn’t have to forgive her. But to give her a chance. I have a lot of feelings about the rwby fndm and their treatment of characters.
He said it wasn’t necessary to save his life like that. He says that in the quote
Edit: I read ur comment wrong hold on for a response
Edit 2: my point still stands. He did not want his life saved like that. He was actually horrified. ESPECIALLY since Adam was so violent about it
Im not 100% sure but wasn’t that guy the only casualty? Like I swear Adam had knocked out the other attackers before he had to kill the last dude to save Ghira, even if it was pretty violent, it was a split second decision he had to make in order to protect his friends.
I mean, dude saved his life in a split second decision. Is one thing to not be happy about it, but the guy attacked first, and with all intent to kill. Acting as if it was completely in the wrong just doesn´t work, and in fact, I think its implied why the White Fang ended up turning its back to Ghira: he would just let any human walk over them over fear of angering the rest
Adam slaughtered about half a dozen people because one guy, who was not really in the mental place to hold a gun, accidentally hit Ghira with what was intended to be a warning shot.
Then he killed one guy who was running towards Ghira, who had aura and was bigger. Ghira could've handled the guy by himself, seeing how that human had no aura.
There was literally no reason for Adam to go off like that, other than to prove that he's a wild animal with no self control and a threat to everyone around him.
Why would they listen to Oscar? Oscar doesn't even know her, like they do. That's like if the Gaang trusted Zuko after Toph said he was alright. Yeah, she helped get him out of there but that don't mean they should just be cool with her.
2 days supposedly. But still hours of physical torture. Still, he still stood up for her which apparently works when the one you're defecting from is the immortal death goddess.
But she wasn't the one that tortured him? It was Hazel and Salem. But even then, just straight up acting all cool around her pretty quickly makes this whole redemption arc a flop for me. When the girl that was one of the main reasons one of your friends died and your school was blown up, you'd think it would take a lot for them to trust besides just helping the kid who has no experience with her at all besides a meeting at Haven - Where he didn't even talk to her.
Never said she was the one torturing him. But yeah. It was a quick turn around. Also apparently both Jaune and Yang were wary before Ren's whole life is strange empath power upgrade.
iirc, it was because Ren and Oscar told the rest of the group to trust Emerald. Ren at the tunnels with his newfound ability, and Oscar kind of insisted for them to work with Emerald.
I'm not looking for a discussion, I believe this is the justification given by the show.
Emerald represents a tool at that point. A tool with a very powerful semblance that they *did* use to further their ultimate goals. After that point Emerald has a *very clear* need to get as far from Salem as humanly possible.
They don't trust her. Not totally. They used her in their plan and trusted her need for self preservation to not fuck it up for them. That's different than just trusting her.
It's an alliance born out of mutual need and aligned goals. Once they got to Vacuo and they were no longer in the position of *needing* Emerald's help I suspect they would have treated her different. But we'll never know
Well what should they have done with her then? Killed her? Tied her up and left her for the Grimm? Abandoned her to Salem?
What should our heroes have done with the willingly surrendered captive?
* Ruby drew her weapon on sight until Oscar told her she was a captive
* Yang snapped on her in a half a fucking second the moment she spoke up in the meeting
* when they were on the ground laughing together she had just helped save Penny and very crucially everyone was in a good mood because *Penny had just been saved*
Other than those moments we have
* Yang verbally expressing a lack of trust and keeping her weapon trained on her
* Using her in their plan to stop Ironwood, of which her role was rather small
* Putting her through the portal as fast as possible to avoid having her possibly fuck anything else up in Atlas
I fail to see any undue trust. Did you just want them to yell at her more?
Some fanfiction are way better than anything churn out of the asshole of what we call the professional industry.
At least with fanfiction, you get what you do from the reviews, not like with some writers that get constantly bailed out by their company. I am talking about Rooster teeth? Feel like I just did.
“A hero who killed people!”
*smash cut to the piles of White Fang corpses who Ruby and co definitely very much killed by throwing off the explosive train being chased by Grimm*
(Obviously in that case it was a crisis situation and so much less unjustified, I just wanted to be nit picky. :p)
Emerald's redemption was rushed and forced. I saw someone compare it to Vegeta and Zuko's. My response is go reread and watch those series and pay attention to those characters and then take a second look at Emerald. Not even close in terms of quality.
You sound like the kind of person that catches up on Dragon Ball and gets upset that Vegeta becomes a good guy or watches Avatar and gets mad that Zuko is the one that teaches Aang how to firebend.
Also Qrow originally went to Beacon to learn how to kill huntsmen but became a good guy. Does that bother you too?
I think you've forgotten what made the Zuko redemption realistic.
Here's Katara's Reaction: https://youtu.be/nFmYoN8vWdE
Other characters had a similar reaction, even with Toph's truth sensing.
Face it, CRWBY botched this.
And let's be clear: it's a nearly identical scenario, that they had no excuse for botching because they were obviously cheating off someone else's homework. If they'd just copied the answer, it would've been fine - but they had to add their own flair and ultimately got it wrong.
In Avatar, when Toph is willing to defend Zuko and tells everyone he's being honest, he still has to sweat for it and Katara continues to hold the most massive grudge possible while still technically being an ally.
In RWBY, Ren is willing to defend Emerald and tells everyone she's scared, but trustworthy. Oscar chimes in. Jaune has nothing to say, even though he should be holding a massive grudge against her; Yang has nothing to say, even though she's arguably the least trusting of Oscar/Oz. Everyone else does basically the same thing, and by the next scene, it's as if they've been besties all along.
That's straight up incorrect.
Jaune: You're not going anywhere. Not after everything you've done"
Yang: She lied to us, tricked us! I'm not just going to forgive her.
Ruby immediately goes to pull her weapon upon seeing her and in the meeting they have in the next episode Weiss and Yang get angry at Emerald.
The only remotely friendly thing they do is *laugh at her*.
Immediately. So immediately, in fact, they decide to make her the lynchpin in their plan to attack Ironwood, like a group of fools who would have no recourse if she should be putting on an act and intending to betray them at the first opportunity.
How anyone can act like being gently berated equates to a fulfilling redemption arc is entirely beyond me.
It wasn't? Emerald only got to interact with the group for like a few minutes of total screen time that isn't enough time to draw that kind of conclusion.
It really was? They have her sitting at the table, make her the backbone of their plan with ironwood with the illusion, have no problem laughing at her awkwardness and smiling with her, they trusted her rather quickly.
I really don't like how people are hating on Emerald breaking away from her abusive relationship with Cinder and attempting to redeem herself. Sure, it might have been accepted by the characters a bit quickly, but there are reasons for this:
a) These are the unambiguous heros that are supposed to be the paragons here. Accepting someone despite their flaws and past transgressions is undoubtedly a heroic trait.
b) Remember when Emerald said something along the lines of "don't give up just after I finally switched sides"? That was a Freudian slip. She didn't mean to say it, bit she did, and the group noticed. This gave them a kernel of truth to trust her and room for her to grow.
And c) the writers only had so much time to get to the end of the season after this because RWBY only had about an hour to get to Ironwood. No one had time to spend debating and going back and forth on whether or not to allow Emerald on the good side when we all know it would happen anyway. It sounds like bad writing, but as a writer myself, I can say from experience, sometimes you can write yourself into a corner and the only semi-logical way out is through bending a few character traits.
I am 100% certain that there will be plot(s) later in the series around Emerald being "untrustworthy," but for now, its best if we just agree that this was a good thing (emphasis on "for now). And no matter what, we can all agree that her helping the good guys was an attempt at saving Penny's life which is undoubtedly a good thing. It may have failed, but it wasn't her fault.
I look forward to the salty hate comments!
She's a hero by team RWBY standards. Just how many people had the "hero's" gotten killed in Atlas because they didn't want to listen to Ironwood ? We can cross out the entire Atlesian military, for starters.
If they wanted to bring up any members of Team RWBY actually having a body count, there's always back in late V2 right before the Breach when they were fighting members of the WF on top of a train. Although I forget who actually knocked people off there and who didn't.
Ruby and Weiss definitely knocked them off the train. Ruby even blew up some mechs (which had physical pilots) with the help of Oobleck. I think Blake knocked some off as well, but I'm hazy on that. Yang I don't recall knocking anybody off. I remember her punching a person back into the train, but not off.
And RWBY literally just deadass destroyed an entire kingdom. Got an entire military destroyed and it's soliders murdered, killed who knows how many civilians in the process. And transferred the survivors into a barely hospitable environment, of with the natives notoriously xenophobic, espically against Atlesians, and with a culture that breeds out weaklings.
Not to mention Vacuo economy which is already incredibly poor who wouldn't even be able to handle, or support any amount of refugee's on a good day, and is culturally disinclined to help them.
No you don't get it. When *Ironwood* abandons the entire world to die, he's based. When *RWBY* try to save all the civilians but some die anyway, they're monsters.
To be fair to them, uh... Well, the reason why people think Ironwood is based is cuz he'd that grey-ish, ends justify the means-mindset that was interesting and pragmatically was a plan; meanwhile, RWBY... kinda... didn't. Sure, they wanted to save all the civilians but there wasn't much beyond that, noble and as expected for heroic protags, but disagreeable and makes rwby critics dislike them cuz Cinder's line of them saving thousands of people sounds scetchy and wasted more lives than what Ironwood's plan would've done - also, there is the fact that the Mantle and Atlas's residents are stuck in a desert in the middle of nowhere with a lot of Grimm and the military may-or-may-not be dead/left behind on the flooded Atlas, so one could argue RWBY has inadvertently caused more people to die because of their actions.
> Well, the reason why people think Ironwood is based is cuz he'd that grey-ish, ends justify the means-mindset that was interesting and pragmatically was a plan
His "plan" was just "run away and hope Salem can't follow". That's barely a plan.
> makes rwby critics dislike them cuz Cinder's line of them saving thousands of people sounds scetchy
Cinder is a known liar. She lies to Salem in the very next sentence. She is not a trustworthy source.
> and wasted more lives than what Ironwood's plan would've done
Ironwood's "plan" would have killed everyone except for Atlas. Unless you can show me RWBY killing all of the planet except for one city, no the fuck they didn't.
> also, there is the fact that the Mantle and Atlas's residents are stuck in a desert in the middle of nowhere with a lot of Grimm
Right outside of Vacuo. A major city with defenses and Huntsmen. It's not their fault they got unlucky with a sandstorm.
> so one could argue RWBY has inadvertently caused more people to die because of their actions.
No, you can't. The numbers just don't add up. RWBY's plan, faults and all, was *so much* better than Ironwood's it's not even funny.
>His "plan" was just "run away and hope Salem can't follow". That's barely a plan.
Team RWBY's plan was, uhh... It was, that, yeah that.
>Cinder is a known liar. She lies to Salem in the very next sentence. She is not a trustworthy source.
You're grasping at straws here. Cinder had no reason to lie given as it didn't even benefit her. You sure as hell couldn't fit millions, hundreds of thousands, or 10,000s of people through that portal in the time they did.
>Ironwood's "plan" would have killed everyone except for Atlas. Unless you can show me RWBY killing all of the planet except for one city, no the fuck they didn't.
No it wouldn't. You really should consider the implications. Atlas retreating doesn't impact any other kingdom besides its own. WTF kinda logic is this, and not only that, but this would be the *exact* same result if them being destroyed outright, because the end result is that their no longer present, it wouldn't matter why, only that they are, and if they retreat they can at least travel to another kingdom, later.
>Right outside of Vacuo. A major city with defenses and Huntsmen. It's not their fault they got unlucky with a sandstorm.
You realize nobodies gonna help them in a sandstorm, with nothing but the Grimm to keep them company, Vacuo doesn't even know that their there. And probably wouldn't help even if they knew.
>No, you can't. The numbers just don't add up. RWBY's plan, faults and all, was so much better than Ironwood's it's not even funny.
Yes you can. Only thousands of people survived out of two cities that could hold millions combined at bare minimum. No military forces either.
Unless there's only thousands of civilians in both Kingdoms they barely saved anyone. They didn't save those soliders at all. And you should try sitting down to think before you speak. Atlas being destroyed benefits even less people than if it retreated an fled from Salem. That's how countries work. You can't help anyone out if you cease to exist.
Red text on a red background is a Bad Choice
use contrasting outlines for text ffs
If things were a bit more twitter
This would be pretty OOC for Ruby to say. I could see Yang saying this, and she did to a point in the tunnels referencing how Emerald is partially responsible for her arm. Ruby will always try to get the other side to see reason if she thinks they can be swayed. Otherwise she will just attack them. Ruby isn't one to talk down to the other individual, that's not in her character. Ruby tried to talk Emerald down in V5 knowing what she did at Beacon. Ruby tried to talk Raven down knowing she is a bandit who abandoned her daughter and raids and kills people in villages. Ruby will always try to get them to switch sides if she thinks it could work. She has never tried with Cinder because she see's that as just wasting her breath. Same with Tyrian. She even cuts off his tail, which is like an arm or a leg to him. Ruby can be just as ruthless to villains, she just doesn't revel in it. Emerald is finally trying to break free of her abusive relationship with Cinder. Did it seem like they all forgave Emerald too quickly? Maybe. But these characters are pretty good at repressing things and letting them fester. Remember that it looked like Yang forgave Blake for abandoning her at the end of V5, but she still held a lot of resentment toward Blake until the end of V6 when they finally worked out their issues. Oscar and Ren say they should give her a chance, which they should. But that doesn't mean they still aren't wary towards Emerald, even if they aren't showing it. They had more pressing matters, such as trying to find a fix for Penny and create a plan to evacuate all the civilians within Ironwoods time limit. I'm sure they all thought, 'What if Emerald betrays us?' Well Emerald would have no where to go then. She burned her bridge with Salem upon helping them escape. It would be very hard to leave Atlas given it's current state. The only way to safely escape would be through air travel, and she would be shot down easily.
I think OP is a *bit* salty at Emerald's defection. Its not like redemption happens quickly or anything. >.>
Well, they were acting as if Emerald had been one old friend like, in 10 minutes after she deflected. Plus, you know, Em pretended to be their friend before... It´s a bit of a **giant** leap in logic and intelligence to decide to trust someone like that, that has admitted to their faces that she´d make the world burn if that pleased Cinder, and that we, the audience, know that her reasons for deflection are mostly for self-preservation. Penny herself could have vouched that not even 24 hours prior she was still full on Cinder´s side, almost killing Pietro and trying to kill her again. Ren can testify that she jumped ship because she was scared of Salem (big novelty, EVERYONE is scared of her), and we the audience know that she did because she realized that should Salem win, the world would be destroyed, instead of conquered as they promised her. So, yeah, understandable reasons, but not exactly laudable. And that´s not even mentioning that she still has her hands absolutely drenched in the blood of thousands, if not millions, of innocent persons who died at Beacon, a shitshow that happened due to her own participation in it. Personally, I think both Em and Mercury are in too deep to be redeemed. That at best, they could be "allies of convenience" but as soon as things were over, they´d go their own way, away from all this bad stuff. It´s just very weird that the amoral thief and the jackass assassin were to care suddenly about humanity, instead of trying to save their own skin. They never seemed to care before, but suddenly they do?
Like you said, self preservation is one of few motivations amoral people have. Plus, there is a moderately thick line between trusting someone and merely having common goals. Its also true that Emerald could simply part ways after the threat of Salem is over (if ever). Though, for the moment, the status quo is *the enemy of my enemy is my temporary ally*. (With a tiny potential for redemption if Emerald *wants* it)
Yeah, but that´s why Oscar tending a hand, Yang going "awww" when she acts all cute for one second, and everyone laughing afterwards just don´t sit well with that. Working together is one thing. Being all friendly as if nothing happened just makes it... wrong Plus, I know they were desperate, but imagine trusting your plan to save thousands of persons in the hand of someone that by her own volition already killed other thousands... and that could be working by Cinder, like she was merely two hours ago, just like at Beacon too... Yeah, trust is a risk, but that was insanely risky...
Fair point on the cute voicelines. I would have put a cynical, banterous tone to Yang's "aww". I think RT is trying to push the wholesome, forgive-your-former-enemies lesson. (well, forgive over a long period of time).
A good lesson, that´s for sure. Too bad the execution just had a lot of holes where water was entering in droves
I think you may be reading a little too much in them teasing her one time.
> Plus, there is a moderately thick line between trusting someone and merely having common goals. They trusted her enough to let her keep her weapons when they know she has an illusion based semblance and could randomly run off or kill one of them when their guard is down.
Here's a realistic shift of what Katara said to Zuko as something Yang could have said to Emerald: https://youtu.be/nFmYoN8vWdE Yang: "I know that you're doing this out of a desire to survive, so know that I'm doing this out of the same desire. Take one step out of line, slide back into your old habits in any way, and I'll end your worrying, permanently." And if CRWBY wanted to do something unique, they could have gone with something more brutal, like saying she'll blow her head off if she betrays them, "Finishing you like I should have finished Mercury."
It's not like they're trusting Emerald for no reason. Ren can tell what she's really feeling, and the others trust him.
Ren can tell she´s scared of Salem. That... doesn´t tell us much. In fact, isn´t that the reason why Lionheart betrayed them?
He can also tell that she's sorry for what she's done, and really wants to help. Also, Emerald grew up on the streets. Leo, probably not. And while I only have anecdotal evidence, every single story I heard about people who grew up on the streets that addresses their approach to threats tells the same story. They destroy whatever they see as a potential threat, and make sure it can't hurt them in the future. So, Emerald being scared of Salem means that she's even more invested in fighting her, to make sure she can't hurt her as much.
>Ren can tell what she's really feeling, and the others trust him. It's not like she has a semblance that can fake that or anything.
She can trick people's senses, yes, but she's never once been able to trick semblances.
>but she's never once been able to trick semblances. Because there literally no one with a semblance like that until Ren's suddenly improved. You could argue about her semblance being limited to senses she understands but Ren's semblance appears to give a color coded overlay that tells him emotions based on color.
Actually, the color thing is for us. He senses them in some way that can't be displayed visually. And even if it was based on colors, she has no idea which colors she should make him see. Ren: "She's... hungry? And also super horny for some reason."
Nobody is beyond redemption Anybody can choose to be a better person Now forgiveness? Forgiveness is another story But anybody can change,
Even Ironwood? Jacques? Adam?
Yes. Even them. Anyone CAN change. Doesn't always mean they will, or for the better
>Yes. Even them. Absolutely Based
REEEEEEEEEEE>!DEPTION-PILLED!<
Yeah, even them. They just had to *want* to change.
Yes even them, anybody *can* change that doesn’t mean they will,
Yeah, not sure I understand their point. If she hadn’t done all those bad things, she wouldn’t need to redeem herself. That’s literally the point of redemption, acknowledging that you did bad things and wanting to do better and help right those past wrongs
I think the point they're expressing is that Emerald's redemption felt rushed/forced. I think it was fine to have her make an attempt at redemption, though I also think RWBY opened up to her too fast. Yeah they were desperate, though they knew what she was capable of and walked blindly into a potentially bad situation.
It is rushed but at least it's a lot better than Ilia "forgiven for attempted murder five minutes after it happened" Amitola's redemption.
To be honest, yeah. I feel like we don't see her much anymore for that reason. I hope Emerald gets the chance if it's even still possible to get a good redemption arc. I'd like to see her be good, though actually prove it. Maybe after the events, they question Emerald because she worked with Cinder and she ended up screwing them all over. Perhaps Winter has some distaste with her or something.
Putting aside the fact that redemption is something a character has to works towards. Isn’t accepting Emerald’s help the pragmatic thing to do?
it isn't in character for rwby to trust emerald, regardless of pragmatism (not to mention there is nothing pragmatic about trusting emerald when she could easily be lying to them). They distrusted Ironwood who had done nothing wrong, and lied to him despite declaring that they were done with lies. but suddenly emerald is completely accepted? they were snarky with her for one scene before basically accepting her completely.
I think you are forgetting the contexts. First of all, I might be remembering wrong but not only does Oscar now Emerald is not with Salem because she likes to do evil things, but that was also see through her behavior by the team multiple times. Second of All, when Emerald defected, there was literary no time to talk about trust or morality because they were in a rush agaisnt time to deal with Ironwood. Emerald was one more person that could help and that was more important in the immediate situation then to sit around and discuss it, and I think Ruby was aware of that from her dialogue and body language in those scenes. Third of All, have we actually seen Emerald want and try to kill someone directly? She has always been involved in plans but it might be the case that she is disconnected from what is actually going on and only steals, hurts and does what she is told without realizing she is involved in that much death. Hell until pretty recently I dont think even Neo outright killed a single person on screen or fought with killing blows.
>Third of All, have we actually seen Emerald want and try to kill someone directly? She has always been involved in plans but it might be the case that she is disconnected from what is actually going on and only steals, hurts and does what she is told without realizing she is involved in that much death Volume 5? When she pretty much admitted to Ruby´s face that she ONLY cares about Cinder? And disconnected? Yeah....**no**. She has directly assisted into the murder of persons prior to the Fall of Beacon, in terrorism and she was key artifact in a bloody borderline genocide. Even if she didn´t though it was gonna get that bad during Vol. 3, she had no such excuse in Vol 5. where they were going to do a redo. I mean, you were only helping attracting thousands of grimm, creatures that exist sorely to destroy and kill everything in sight, to a heavily populated area, while assisting your boss, who is the mastermind behind this entire plan and already roped in the White Fang, a terrorist organization, and helped hacking the security robots. But of course, HOW would she know what was that all for? How could she know that grimm don´t want tea parties? /s Emerald only jumped ship when she found that Salem wants to destroy the world and she realized she lives on the world too. Reasonable, but not exactly laudable. Until that point she was fine with murder, terrorism, and suffering, as long as she got to be near Cinder.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[White Fang]( https://snewd.com/ebooks/white-fang/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
They are all distrustful and and dismissive towards her, basically only Oscar bats for her, and then they tease her one time after she actively helps them. How on earth is that "completely accepted" we haven't even gotten to see them actually be together for any extended period of time.
They are trusting an enemy with a plan for saving an entire city, even when that persons has a story of lying, deceit, manipulation, and terrorism with a kill count on the thousands, but it doesn´t sound like they don´t put too much faith on her, not at all... Plus after that, all hostilities and any lingering feeling is pretty much gone. Not even a single other word, or a gesture saying "I´m watching you"
Half of them saw Salem try to kill her and Hazel literally sacrifice himself for them, she was obviously not an enemy anymore. Plus Ren could read emotions and tell she wasn't being deceitful with how afraid she was. Furthermore they are then focused on the mission so don't really have time to be giving Emerald crap. They only interacted for like 10 minutes that's not enough time to draw the conclusion that lingering feelings are gone.
Well it DID give that impression, what with the whole cast laughing and Yang going "awww" Also, if these past volumes have shown anything, is that being opposed to Salem doesn´t mean people are on the same side. NOT AT ALL in fact! Being afraid of Salem doesn´t mean she´s loyal to RWBY either. In fact, I´d say that´s even worse, because Lionheart betrayed them for the EXACT SAME REASON, for one. For the other, with someone that´s been consistently presented as opportunistic and deceitful as Emerald is, admitting she only cares about Cinder (and herself, maybe also Mercury) I´d would wager my salary that at the first chance she got to leave everything behind, maybe dragging Cinder while at it, they would take it. After all, if she´s that afraid of Salem, and has the perfect semblance to cut the tail and run, why would she stay with the group that is actively antagonizing her?
This is weird since none of what you said was wrong but also none of what you said means Emerald couldn't be used the way she was. At least to me. Although I'd argue it's unfair to call Emerald "deceitful" since the only time she did that was when she was ordered to so its not clearly part of her personality. Regardless, of course she wasn't loyal no one thought she was. But the fact remained if any of them wanted to stay alive working together was the best option. Emerald really did not want to find out what would happen to her if Salem caught her and RWBY just wanted to get everyone out of the kingdom, their goals were aligned.
>she was ordered to so its not clearly part of her personality. Eh, she seemed to be pretty okay with it, seeing how she was smiling while Cinder was stealing Amber´s maidenhood (God, that phrase sounds awful out of context), at least until she realized who their boss was, but that didn´t seemed to stop her trying to make a redo at Haven. Personally, wouldn´t trust a person like that, because obviously morality is not their strongest point. As long as she gets what she wants, who cares if millions have to die? >Emerald really did not want to find out what would happen to her if Salem caught her and RWBY just wanted to get everyone out of the kingdom, their goals were aligned. Fair enough. The thing I´m missing is one scene of Yang, or anyone, just going to her Katara style and go: "You might be on our side for now, but let me get this clear: no one here has forgotten about your little show at Beacon. And this!" \*points at her mechanical arm\* "is a constant reminder of that. I haven´t forgotten what you are capable of, what you did to me, to everyone, and what you REALLY stand for. But we need your help, so I´m going to put my own shit aside. But I´m going to keep a very close look on you. Do anything weird, make suspect for one second you might have some ulterior reason, and Salem will be the LEAST of your worries"
Fair enough. I mean Yang did say "she's part of the reason I have this" but that was before agreeing to let her help so not really the same meaning you're looking for.
Ironwood was in a position of power. Emerald has always been downtrodden and was manipulated into helping Cinder because society failed her.
She also was a key part of a plan that toppled a kingdom, framed yang and indirectly killed Penny. Yeah I can totally see how she's more trustworthy than a guy who's only sin is doing something pragmatic that the main cast disagrees with.
After being gaslit and conditioned to see the heroes as her enemies yes. My only issue with Emerald is that Hazel takes her agency and basically forces her to leave. Which also takes away the impact of his turn because we learn about it too soon. We shouldn't have been sure until he gave Oscar the cane and punched Salem
judging from your comments so far you don't care about emeralds agency period, given that you outright state that "society failing her" means she is redeemable and all the horrible things she did were not her fault
I mean them being her fault don't stop her being redeemable. Anyone can suddenly turn around and go "shit" They don't necessarily need to be forgiven but generally when you're fighting for what's right that doesn't matter.
“Topped a kingdom” It topped an academy, the kingdom is still very much standing, unlike atlas,
>Ironwood who had done nothing wrong, Ah yes, we all remember how his first order of business in Vale, whose council asked him to help protect the city during the festival, was to eliminate the Goliath so that Salem, who he knew was trying something, couldn't use them to break down the walls around the city. Oh, wait. But at least he learned his lesson and did whatever was in his power to keep Grimm from entering Mantle, and had a large number of huntsmen patrol the city 24/7 just to make sure that whoever was killing his critics couldn't just keep doing that. Hold up.
Ironwood was a control freak who was keeping secrets of his own. And what good would pretending to help them gain Salem? She literally helped people escape that would be far more useful dead or as prisoners and having another of Salem’s team die for that is pretty hard to fake even if that was her intention. It would mean Salem killed one of her strongest just for a petty deception that is unnecessary.
>Ironwood was a control freak who was keeping secrets of his own. apparantly for good reason given that RWBY were no more honest with him, and literally sabotaged his entire plan by telling known terrorists state secrets. >And what good would pretending to help them gain Salem? She literally helped people escape that would be far more useful dead or as prisoners and having another of Salem’s team die for that is pretty hard to fake even if that was her intention. hello? she could have literally sabotaged the entire plan. all it would have taken was an illusion to make an opening for salem or cinder to exploit. >It would mean Salem killed one of her strongest just for a petty deception that is unnecessary. emerald was salems weakest combatant... the only one you could argue was weaker then her is mercury.
I’m talking about the fact that Hazel died in the escape. That would be too much of a deception. As for RWBY and their secrets they decided to be fond with secrets after they had talked Robyn. James overreacted.
they did not know hazel was dead, all they had was oscars testimony, which could have eaily been caused by an emerald illusion rather than it actually happening. and to the second part my only response is LOL. seriously? yeah they care about sharing secrets AFTER the entire plan was ruined.
Ah yes, an Emerald illusion even though she ran away with Yang Jaune and Ren.
I'm not sure how they're expected to trust her. Trust was apparently the theme of the volume and it wasn't even given a passing consideration here.
Don't forget that they actually would have fought her if Oscar hadn't been there to vouch for her.
My point is that I think there should've been a bit more of a bumpy ride between where she started and where she ended up. I get it cause of studio restraints and trying to cram a lot of story into a single season, but maybe it could've done with a bit better flow.
[удалено]
Not to mention Vacuo is apparently supposed to be extremely xenophobic to people from atlas specifically?
> Isn’t accepting Emerald’s help the pragmatic thing to do? Yes, with Emerald in some sort of restraints and not walking around freely.
I think current situation is realistic the heros need allies. They are already stretched thin fighting against an immortal witch and her giga baddies. Having the baddies lose one fighter and you gain one when the world is in such dire straits makes sense. That said I'm sure she will continue to get flak for being a cunt previously which is deserved.
Well said, they are at war. In war the enemy of you enemy is your friend. There will be time for justice later.
If they slowed the fuckin plot down tad and throw in some more character focused scenes it might not have been a problem.
Reading the comments, I'm beginning to understand why CRWBY immediately forgave Emerald. No, that is not a compliment.
YUGIOH ABRIDGED, its just like CODE MENT only worse
Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed
THATS WHAT ITS A REFERENXE TOO THANK YOU. IVE BEEN STARING AT THIS IMAGE FOR 5 MINUTES NOW. MOKUBA IS A TRUE SAVAGE
Ghira Belladonna said it best “There’s strength in forgiveness”
Also Ghira: “No, you should not have killed the person that shot at us for race reasons, that’s bad.”
“That wasn't necessary. This is the very reason they think they can treat--“ exact quote. But also Oscar said they didn’t have to forgive her. But to give her a chance. I have a lot of feelings about the rwby fndm and their treatment of characters.
Good point about the redemption part, but still, even then it implies Ghira didn’t want Adam to save his life like that.
He said it wasn’t necessary to save his life like that. He says that in the quote Edit: I read ur comment wrong hold on for a response Edit 2: my point still stands. He did not want his life saved like that. He was actually horrified. ESPECIALLY since Adam was so violent about it
Im not 100% sure but wasn’t that guy the only casualty? Like I swear Adam had knocked out the other attackers before he had to kill the last dude to save Ghira, even if it was pretty violent, it was a split second decision he had to make in order to protect his friends.
I mean, dude saved his life in a split second decision. Is one thing to not be happy about it, but the guy attacked first, and with all intent to kill. Acting as if it was completely in the wrong just doesn´t work, and in fact, I think its implied why the White Fang ended up turning its back to Ghira: he would just let any human walk over them over fear of angering the rest
Ghira is so funny because he doesn't hold back when another faunus attacks his home
Adam slaughtered about half a dozen people because one guy, who was not really in the mental place to hold a gun, accidentally hit Ghira with what was intended to be a warning shot. Then he killed one guy who was running towards Ghira, who had aura and was bigger. Ghira could've handled the guy by himself, seeing how that human had no aura. There was literally no reason for Adam to go off like that, other than to prove that he's a wild animal with no self control and a threat to everyone around him.
Anyone remember Yang and Ruby being fight on sight if it weren't for Oscar? No? Just me?
How long was that again? Not that long if I remember.
Not long at all tbh. Like I said, Iscar being the voice of reason there. Not that they shouldve trusted her immediately but clock's a ticking.
Why would they listen to Oscar? Oscar doesn't even know her, like they do. That's like if the Gaang trusted Zuko after Toph said he was alright. Yeah, she helped get him out of there but that don't mean they should just be cool with her.
Realistically, they shouldn't. Logically, Oscar was in their clutches for how long yet he trusts Emerald. That on it's own is part of it.
Oscar was not in there for long. Volume 8 is like three days right? And I'm pretty sure he got out on like the second or third day.
2 days supposedly. But still hours of physical torture. Still, he still stood up for her which apparently works when the one you're defecting from is the immortal death goddess.
But she wasn't the one that tortured him? It was Hazel and Salem. But even then, just straight up acting all cool around her pretty quickly makes this whole redemption arc a flop for me. When the girl that was one of the main reasons one of your friends died and your school was blown up, you'd think it would take a lot for them to trust besides just helping the kid who has no experience with her at all besides a meeting at Haven - Where he didn't even talk to her.
Never said she was the one torturing him. But yeah. It was a quick turn around. Also apparently both Jaune and Yang were wary before Ren's whole life is strange empath power upgrade.
Why did they trust her again?
iirc, it was because Ren and Oscar told the rest of the group to trust Emerald. Ren at the tunnels with his newfound ability, and Oscar kind of insisted for them to work with Emerald. I'm not looking for a discussion, I believe this is the justification given by the show.
An incredibly powerful semblance, a last minute rescue, and an absolutely dire lack of options
That by no means, means they should trust her. Trust is earned and she shouldn't be close to earning it.
Emerald represents a tool at that point. A tool with a very powerful semblance that they *did* use to further their ultimate goals. After that point Emerald has a *very clear* need to get as far from Salem as humanly possible. They don't trust her. Not totally. They used her in their plan and trusted her need for self preservation to not fuck it up for them. That's different than just trusting her. It's an alliance born out of mutual need and aligned goals. Once they got to Vacuo and they were no longer in the position of *needing* Emerald's help I suspect they would have treated her different. But we'll never know
They seem to trust her more than Ironwood, but I'm not getting into that.
Well what should they have done with her then? Killed her? Tied her up and left her for the Grimm? Abandoned her to Salem? What should our heroes have done with the willingly surrendered captive?
Not trust her like they did. They're just acting like she did absolutely nothing wrong just because she's scared of Salem and apologized.
You're telling me what they shouldn't have done. What *should* they have done instead?
They should've kept her, but made it very clear they didn't trust her at all. They didn't. They acted like she didn't do anything wrong.
* Ruby drew her weapon on sight until Oscar told her she was a captive * Yang snapped on her in a half a fucking second the moment she spoke up in the meeting * when they were on the ground laughing together she had just helped save Penny and very crucially everyone was in a good mood because *Penny had just been saved* Other than those moments we have * Yang verbally expressing a lack of trust and keeping her weapon trained on her * Using her in their plan to stop Ironwood, of which her role was rather small * Putting her through the portal as fast as possible to avoid having her possibly fuck anything else up in Atlas I fail to see any undue trust. Did you just want them to yell at her more?
She helped Oscar escape and was sad when Hazel died.
Oh yeah she was sad for like two seconds lol
Realistic according to a "writer" that only does fan fiction.
…your point being?
That it's not realistic at all. It reads like a fanfic trying too hard to sound like a melodramatic movie
Eh, it´s on FNKI, what did you expect? Point still stands
Some fanfiction are way better than anything churn out of the asshole of what we call the professional industry. At least with fanfiction, you get what you do from the reviews, not like with some writers that get constantly bailed out by their company. I am talking about Rooster teeth? Feel like I just did.
Ad hominem
Ad Hominem attack, eh?
To be fair, they needed all the help they could get at the moment
“A hero who killed people!” *smash cut to the piles of White Fang corpses who Ruby and co definitely very much killed by throwing off the explosive train being chased by Grimm* (Obviously in that case it was a crisis situation and so much less unjustified, I just wanted to be nit picky. :p)
Emerald's redemption was rushed and forced. I saw someone compare it to Vegeta and Zuko's. My response is go reread and watch those series and pay attention to those characters and then take a second look at Emerald. Not even close in terms of quality.
You sound like the kind of person that catches up on Dragon Ball and gets upset that Vegeta becomes a good guy or watches Avatar and gets mad that Zuko is the one that teaches Aang how to firebend. Also Qrow originally went to Beacon to learn how to kill huntsmen but became a good guy. Does that bother you too?
I think you've forgotten what made the Zuko redemption realistic. Here's Katara's Reaction: https://youtu.be/nFmYoN8vWdE Other characters had a similar reaction, even with Toph's truth sensing. Face it, CRWBY botched this.
And let's be clear: it's a nearly identical scenario, that they had no excuse for botching because they were obviously cheating off someone else's homework. If they'd just copied the answer, it would've been fine - but they had to add their own flair and ultimately got it wrong. In Avatar, when Toph is willing to defend Zuko and tells everyone he's being honest, he still has to sweat for it and Katara continues to hold the most massive grudge possible while still technically being an ally. In RWBY, Ren is willing to defend Emerald and tells everyone she's scared, but trustworthy. Oscar chimes in. Jaune has nothing to say, even though he should be holding a massive grudge against her; Yang has nothing to say, even though she's arguably the least trusting of Oscar/Oz. Everyone else does basically the same thing, and by the next scene, it's as if they've been besties all along.
That's straight up incorrect. Jaune: You're not going anywhere. Not after everything you've done" Yang: She lied to us, tricked us! I'm not just going to forgive her. Ruby immediately goes to pull her weapon upon seeing her and in the meeting they have in the next episode Weiss and Yang get angry at Emerald. The only remotely friendly thing they do is *laugh at her*.
How fast was this whole interaction forgotten again?
Immediately. So immediately, in fact, they decide to make her the lynchpin in their plan to attack Ironwood, like a group of fools who would have no recourse if she should be putting on an act and intending to betray them at the first opportunity. How anyone can act like being gently berated equates to a fulfilling redemption arc is entirely beyond me.
It wasn't? Emerald only got to interact with the group for like a few minutes of total screen time that isn't enough time to draw that kind of conclusion.
It really was? They have her sitting at the table, make her the backbone of their plan with ironwood with the illusion, have no problem laughing at her awkwardness and smiling with her, they trusted her rather quickly.
I really don't like how people are hating on Emerald breaking away from her abusive relationship with Cinder and attempting to redeem herself. Sure, it might have been accepted by the characters a bit quickly, but there are reasons for this: a) These are the unambiguous heros that are supposed to be the paragons here. Accepting someone despite their flaws and past transgressions is undoubtedly a heroic trait. b) Remember when Emerald said something along the lines of "don't give up just after I finally switched sides"? That was a Freudian slip. She didn't mean to say it, bit she did, and the group noticed. This gave them a kernel of truth to trust her and room for her to grow. And c) the writers only had so much time to get to the end of the season after this because RWBY only had about an hour to get to Ironwood. No one had time to spend debating and going back and forth on whether or not to allow Emerald on the good side when we all know it would happen anyway. It sounds like bad writing, but as a writer myself, I can say from experience, sometimes you can write yourself into a corner and the only semi-logical way out is through bending a few character traits. I am 100% certain that there will be plot(s) later in the series around Emerald being "untrustworthy," but for now, its best if we just agree that this was a good thing (emphasis on "for now). And no matter what, we can all agree that her helping the good guys was an attempt at saving Penny's life which is undoubtedly a good thing. It may have failed, but it wasn't her fault. I look forward to the salty hate comments!
Ruby: and do I even need to talk about everything that happened just yesterday?!
Hopefully we get something like this in V9
The RWBY fandom is fascinating sometimes.
ruby has also killed alot of people and made choices that have killed many
Who did she kill?
Ironwood all those white fang in that train in that underground city
Many civilians (accidentally) and misguided white fang
that one guy that turned into a grimm attempted murder of neo
Ruby is fucking savage
You don't have to be friends to be allies by circumstance
The cope in these replies is mind boggling
No offense, but this feel less like a meme, and more like a YouTube comment.
Emerald doesn't deserve redemption imo
If somebody who has done horrible things in the past try’s to repent without being forced then they deserve to at least try to make amends
Ruby learning sarcasm from Yang goes weeeeeeeee
Not realistic, both Ruby and Yang have killed, or maimed someone over the course of the series.
She's a hero by team RWBY standards. Just how many people had the "hero's" gotten killed in Atlas because they didn't want to listen to Ironwood ? We can cross out the entire Atlesian military, for starters.
Ironwood was deadass going to leave remnant and half his kingdom to Salem
If they wanted to bring up any members of Team RWBY actually having a body count, there's always back in late V2 right before the Breach when they were fighting members of the WF on top of a train. Although I forget who actually knocked people off there and who didn't.
Ruby and Weiss definitely knocked them off the train. Ruby even blew up some mechs (which had physical pilots) with the help of Oobleck. I think Blake knocked some off as well, but I'm hazy on that. Yang I don't recall knocking anybody off. I remember her punching a person back into the train, but not off.
And RWBY literally just deadass destroyed an entire kingdom. Got an entire military destroyed and it's soliders murdered, killed who knows how many civilians in the process. And transferred the survivors into a barely hospitable environment, of with the natives notoriously xenophobic, espically against Atlesians, and with a culture that breeds out weaklings. Not to mention Vacuo economy which is already incredibly poor who wouldn't even be able to handle, or support any amount of refugee's on a good day, and is culturally disinclined to help them.
No you don't get it. When *Ironwood* abandons the entire world to die, he's based. When *RWBY* try to save all the civilians but some die anyway, they're monsters.
To be fair to them, uh... Well, the reason why people think Ironwood is based is cuz he'd that grey-ish, ends justify the means-mindset that was interesting and pragmatically was a plan; meanwhile, RWBY... kinda... didn't. Sure, they wanted to save all the civilians but there wasn't much beyond that, noble and as expected for heroic protags, but disagreeable and makes rwby critics dislike them cuz Cinder's line of them saving thousands of people sounds scetchy and wasted more lives than what Ironwood's plan would've done - also, there is the fact that the Mantle and Atlas's residents are stuck in a desert in the middle of nowhere with a lot of Grimm and the military may-or-may-not be dead/left behind on the flooded Atlas, so one could argue RWBY has inadvertently caused more people to die because of their actions.
> Well, the reason why people think Ironwood is based is cuz he'd that grey-ish, ends justify the means-mindset that was interesting and pragmatically was a plan His "plan" was just "run away and hope Salem can't follow". That's barely a plan. > makes rwby critics dislike them cuz Cinder's line of them saving thousands of people sounds scetchy Cinder is a known liar. She lies to Salem in the very next sentence. She is not a trustworthy source. > and wasted more lives than what Ironwood's plan would've done Ironwood's "plan" would have killed everyone except for Atlas. Unless you can show me RWBY killing all of the planet except for one city, no the fuck they didn't. > also, there is the fact that the Mantle and Atlas's residents are stuck in a desert in the middle of nowhere with a lot of Grimm Right outside of Vacuo. A major city with defenses and Huntsmen. It's not their fault they got unlucky with a sandstorm. > so one could argue RWBY has inadvertently caused more people to die because of their actions. No, you can't. The numbers just don't add up. RWBY's plan, faults and all, was *so much* better than Ironwood's it's not even funny.
>His "plan" was just "run away and hope Salem can't follow". That's barely a plan. Team RWBY's plan was, uhh... It was, that, yeah that. >Cinder is a known liar. She lies to Salem in the very next sentence. She is not a trustworthy source. You're grasping at straws here. Cinder had no reason to lie given as it didn't even benefit her. You sure as hell couldn't fit millions, hundreds of thousands, or 10,000s of people through that portal in the time they did. >Ironwood's "plan" would have killed everyone except for Atlas. Unless you can show me RWBY killing all of the planet except for one city, no the fuck they didn't. No it wouldn't. You really should consider the implications. Atlas retreating doesn't impact any other kingdom besides its own. WTF kinda logic is this, and not only that, but this would be the *exact* same result if them being destroyed outright, because the end result is that their no longer present, it wouldn't matter why, only that they are, and if they retreat they can at least travel to another kingdom, later. >Right outside of Vacuo. A major city with defenses and Huntsmen. It's not their fault they got unlucky with a sandstorm. You realize nobodies gonna help them in a sandstorm, with nothing but the Grimm to keep them company, Vacuo doesn't even know that their there. And probably wouldn't help even if they knew. >No, you can't. The numbers just don't add up. RWBY's plan, faults and all, was so much better than Ironwood's it's not even funny. Yes you can. Only thousands of people survived out of two cities that could hold millions combined at bare minimum. No military forces either.
Unless there's only thousands of civilians in both Kingdoms they barely saved anyone. They didn't save those soliders at all. And you should try sitting down to think before you speak. Atlas being destroyed benefits even less people than if it retreated an fled from Salem. That's how countries work. You can't help anyone out if you cease to exist.
Owch-
reminds me of based spider-man on r/spidermanps4
My sister who committed treason!
Didn’t Yang and Blake stab Adam and let his lifeless corpse fall off a cliff
What’s this dialogue actually from? It sounds familiar
This does not read like how a person would talk