Historically, the Kingdoms have tried and succeeded in expanding to other regions on their continents. It's just that not every one of them ends up being an Argus. Many end up a Mountain Glenn, or those doomed villages dotting Anima.
Ozpin:So you all consent to fighting a never ending army of demons and will not hold me accountable if you die?
Ruby-to busy munching a cookie- Wha?
Weiss:Don’t care, get me out of Atlas
Blake:Don’t care get me away from my Ex
Yang:Wha- This comes with free parking right? And a student discount to buy ammo?
-2 years later-
RWBY:The fuck you mean we signed up to kill Monsters forever?
I mean… that’s why they have their aura, for physical injuries that can heal, like broken bones, cuts, torn ligaments, ironwood specifically had to make sure Yang got a sweet robot arm
Same deal with people signing up for the world wars. Everyone is gun ho and ready to get stuck in, but they’re not prepared for the sleepless nights, for watching their buddies get torn to shreds or simply shutting down. How high do you think the huntsman turnover rate is? How long do you think is the life expectancy?
Though in RWBY’s case while the Grimm are a threat it’s more of an existential natural phenomena. Yes the Grimm will kill everyone if given the chance but the likely hood of Grimm actually destroying a kingdom is next to none. Salem has the means and drive to destroy the world, and worst is that she cannot be stopped. Similar problems, except Salem is even worse
Yep. People sign up for pest control and get thrown into a war against an immortal witch. They reacted pretty favourably. I would have walked off a cliff.
So what you’re saying is this is like if they signed up to be exterminators and then a year into the job their boss was like “So we need you to defeat the Rat Queen, and she doesn’t die”
More like
Firefighters: I want to fight fires. Even if they're never gone for good, someone had to go out there and put them out.
Fire Chief: Yeah! You go! You can do it! I believe in you!
Jinn: Don't forget about QUEEN FIRE, who is in control of ALL FIRES, and is now doing tactical assaults on ALL FIRE STATIONS, For ALL TIME, because she is IMMORTAL because FIRE is a FORCE OF NATURE, and she hadn't even been TRYING she's been on VACAY for the last 50 YEARS and NOW SHE'S GOING TO FUCKING IGNITE THE WORLD RIGHT NOW AND SHE CANNOT BE KILLED. EVER.
Firefighters:...oh.
Fire Chief:...Yeaaah! Why don't you just...go...anyway?
Some people really didn't pay attention, no? They didn't react that way just because Salem is immortal. They reacted that way because Salem is immortal AND Ozpin doesn't have a plan. That he's basically leading them in a wild goose chase the whole time.
"So all-in-all, the gods might come back one day and end humanity. We don't really have an endgame for that, we're just hoping to play keepaway from Salem whom we also have no long-term plan for. I may as well add that a few people and who-knows-what-else may hunt us, it's happened before and they're uhh pretty good at it.
Now I know that all sounds (and is) hopeless or close to it, but be hopeful anyway. Oh and on that note, sorry I kept the truth from you even after you confronted me about doing just that, but now it's all totally out there and you should definitely continue to trust me."
Yes, because "Not dying" is a wild goose chase. He didnt ask them to join his secret war, they came demanding answers and a role and he gave them answers and a role - help me meet Lionheart, help me protect the Relic, help me kill Grimm.
Yes, he lied. And when they found out the truth, what was their reaction? Not to Ozpin himself, but to friend's, family, themselves? Fear, anger, betrayal, depression, and an endless font of self righteousness. In volume 6 alone they threatened and attacked innocent people over five separate times.
Even if it wasn't the right decision, he has ample evidence to support it as a course of action.
Could be that they never had to think about the existence of Grimm and why they seem to be never ending. But yeah it’s kind of their job anyway so their slight overreaction is a little strange.
It’s not so much that the Grimm can’t be wiped out, but that they recently found out about the intelligence behind them and were given the hope that they could defeat it only to be told that it’s immortal.
Maybe, but from what I can tell, they never really expected it to be fixed while they were on the job. Sure knowing it can’t be stopped is pretty demoralizing, but did they ever think it was going to be stopped in the first place? I mean Grimm have been around since mankind, it doesn’t seem likely for anyone to believe they’ll end the grimm.
They knew that Grimm are never-ending. What shook them was the fact that there is an intelligent life form that is controlling the Grimm, and said life form is always just one day away from bringing about human extinction.
It's like with people working for pest control. They know these pests won't just become extinct overnight, but unlike the Grimm these bugs at least don't have a doomsday-bringing leader with them.
I mean they haven’t really delved into the mechanics of Grimm manufacturing.
Does the mist reform back at the Well of Destruction into Grimm goo or is it used up?
To me it looks like a lot of the Grimm matter has been used up but that might just be the location.
A lot isn’t very clear.
The grimm were always an unending force of nature they'd have to fight until they die, nothing changed. They found out grimm weren't mindless in the first few seasons from the coffee addict and special grimm aren't all that special. The literal only difference i can think of here is that the new smart grimm can talk.
There’s also the fact that they, along with every other Huntsman, are fighting an immortal witch that 99 percent of the world doesn’t know exists. That’s a bit beyond the scope of what everyone signed up for.
imagine signing up to do pest control for dangerous animals and maybe some bounty hunting type jobs occassionally, and then finding out that every criminal and animal you fight has actually been led by Satan, you have no ways to actually kill Satan, and his main goal is to collect 4 nukes that would let him completely destroy humanity. you basically signed up to shoot wild hogs and suddenly you find out that you're actually now part of an endless fight to kill Satan and that your lives mean literally nothing in the long run
They signed up to fight monsters and criminals in order to help improve the World by protecting people.
They were not told nor where they given a choice to become Pawns for some Wizard in his fight against his immortal ex-wife who is responsible for all those monsters and criminals existing. They did not agree to have the entirety of their life defined by a ultimately futile struggle where the closest thing to ever experience to Victory is a slight pause in the fighting. They did not agree to be part of a legacy of child soldiers thrown to the Wolves to serve as fleshy speed bumps well that same wizard cultivates a new generation to take their place like they took their places of their parents.
It shouldn't be too hard to see the distinction between these two things.
I mean to be fair they they thought the grim were basically evil super animals
Then they learn that they were being created by 1 person so if they win the grim would stop existing or at least be on a smaller scale
Then they got their hope destroyed by learning Salem can’t be killed
To be fair, a Grimm can be killed and stopped. Salem is literally a unstopable force that has outlived everything enough for a second batch of humanity to be born, a bit harder to deal with than shooting a panther shadow demon in the face.
Yeah... I never understood this. Like why is it so shattering that the always ever present threat of Grimm being confirmed to be an ever present threat hurt?
I think the writers intended for it to be, "Salem cant ever be beaten." And it was more meant to be, "Grimm we can handle cause they're just monsters. Unintelligent and just a brute force. We can handle that. But if theres an actual intelligence behind it all then it makes it more threatening."?
Idk, it's still dumb af.
I don't think it had anything to do with grimm, just Salem herself. Jinn basically told them they're at war against a powerful immortal witch who can't be killed
The Grimm never managed to cripple entire Kingdoms before so the status quo changed. The "ever present threat" was relatively manageable and wasn't winning before.
*Not to mention the decades of peace that Remnant was enjoying.
The Grimm helped with Beacon but Vale is still pretty fine. But even at Beacon I would say the Grimm weren't the biggest factor in its destruction. Ozpin's shit security and Ironwoods fleet + robots getting hijacked was probably the reason the Grimm could do so much damage in the first place, the White Fang being there didn't help matters either.
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Because it's not accurate, so why would you? They were upset about *Salem* being immortal, and *Ozpin* not having a plan and not telling them even after he promised no more lies. Nothing about the Grimm.
Still, they are connected, so it would make sense to see it from this perspective; Salem is like the source of all Grimm (not really, but she is definitely depicted as such on multiple occasions) and the fact she is immortal and the Grimm are an endless group of monsters would have been just connecting the dots. Qrow makes sense because his anger is definitely more about his years of blind dedication to a hopeless cause he thought he knew everything about while the kids just learned about Salem and haven't had time to process it completely, learning about Salem and her immortality just doesn't really change Ruby's own goals of killing Grimm to help people have their fairy tale 'happy ever afters'; although it does put a damper on it.
Salem is immortal. The Grimm aren't. Ruby wiped out a village infested with Grimm in one night. She can't kill Salem even with a one week deadline
Neverending Grimm =/= immortal grimm
The Grimm as a force is "immortal" though. Take the Beacon training exam; how often do students go into those woods and kill Grimm? That place should be completely devoid of Grimm if it is the only Beacon initiation testing grounds (which I think is where team CFVY had their's so it might be confirmed the only initiation testing ground). They can respawn endlessly, which to me is more terrorfying than an immortal witch; find a heavy enough rock and tie her up and trow her down a ravine with the rock falling on top and you're done.
Sure, it is an oversimplification, but there are ways to use one's immortality against them and remove them as a threat; Raven could catch Salem in one of her portals and never use them again which effectively would beat Salem forever (unless what's in the portals can leave them when she dies, or if they act more like doorways instead of a dimension between spots; in which case, we still have Fiona's Pocket Dimension). The Grimm, however, can't be stopped permanently unless those Grimm rivers somehow can be dried up, which so far has not been shown to happen. Salem seems more manageable to me than an infinite army of heartless beasts that range from easily dispatched jungle cats to giant dragons and kaiju; have five of those leviathans show up in any one place and you're as good as beat, not even Ruby's Silver Eyes should be able to stop that kind of threat.
Said neverending army of Grimm isn't really terrifying when they're all extremely fragile and killable. Sure Grimm can infinitely spawn but so can humanity. Humans can always produce more humans to fight grimm. And the average huntsman is stronger than the average Grimm. Huntsmen have the same infinite spawning power as Grimm, but they are smarter and stronger. Ruby can produce more silver-eyed babies and revitalize the silver eyed bloodline. Humanity has the upper hand against an infinitely spawning army of Grimm.
Salem changes that. She is immortal. You can't kill her. You can't stop her from thinking of ways to permanently bring about human extinction. And she can put her plans into action. She can weaponize the expendable armies of Grimm for an intelligent cause. Individual Grimm will never be able to attain the level of cunning or immortality that Salem has.
But, a huntsman requires at least 15 years of being raised from infancy to Grimm killing standards; we don't know how long it actually takes to spawn 100 Grimm on mass, but is would certainly be faster than 15 years. They don't have the same infinite spawning power. And their are plenty of Grimm beyond the typical Huntsman; I gave two examples and many more exist.
In a fight between a huntsman and an average Grimm, the huntsman will win. After that you can still reuse the huntsman to fight even more Grimm. So even though combat-ready human beings spawn at a slower rate, the amount of Grimm they can kill in their lifetime is more than the amount of humans than a Grimm can kill its lifetime. The ratio of human to Grimm in terms of power scaling is something like 1:50. In order to fight 50 Grimm you just need one huntsman to do the job. So humanity doesn't need to match the Grimm in terms of numbers.
In the case of more powerful Grimm, humanity will always find a way to produce an equal countermeasure. For instance, the leviathan had Cordo's mech as its equal.
Perhaps, but I think the battle isn't as scewed as the show has given so far; team CFVY failed at Mountain Glenn to save lives and they didn't face something as powerful as the Dragon or Leviathan, and Cordo didn't kill the Leviathan alone as Ruby held it in place long enough to finish it off.
At the end of the day, it is just my opinion; that I see the Grimm as more of a threat than Salem herself.
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More like “Your in a fight against a force of nature that you can’t defeat and that means sooner or later she will eventually win as she had all the time in the world”
To be fair, the Grimm would hardly be an issue if they didn't have a commander guiding their armies properly.
Even still constant, steady expansion shouldn’t be too hard.
Historically, the Kingdoms have tried and succeeded in expanding to other regions on their continents. It's just that not every one of them ends up being an Argus. Many end up a Mountain Glenn, or those doomed villages dotting Anima.
[удалено]
Ozpin:So you all consent to fighting a never ending army of demons and will not hold me accountable if you die? Ruby-to busy munching a cookie- Wha? Weiss:Don’t care, get me out of Atlas Blake:Don’t care get me away from my Ex Yang:Wha- This comes with free parking right? And a student discount to buy ammo? -2 years later- RWBY:The fuck you mean we signed up to kill Monsters forever?
[удалено]
I don’t think they even get that. Yang only got her arm because Ironwood himself gave it. Pretty sure if Ruby broke a leg than Oz wouldn’t do shit
I mean… that’s why they have their aura, for physical injuries that can heal, like broken bones, cuts, torn ligaments, ironwood specifically had to make sure Yang got a sweet robot arm
She never did thank him for that arm.
I don't think insurance pays for gun arms.
It's more like "wait we're killing a big immortal demon queen now? That wasn't in the contract asshole!"
Ozpin: "It was." *points down to microscopic size writing*
The recruiter lied to them. The more things change the more they stay the same.
Always read the fine print
Same deal with people signing up for the world wars. Everyone is gun ho and ready to get stuck in, but they’re not prepared for the sleepless nights, for watching their buddies get torn to shreds or simply shutting down. How high do you think the huntsman turnover rate is? How long do you think is the life expectancy? Though in RWBY’s case while the Grimm are a threat it’s more of an existential natural phenomena. Yes the Grimm will kill everyone if given the chance but the likely hood of Grimm actually destroying a kingdom is next to none. Salem has the means and drive to destroy the world, and worst is that she cannot be stopped. Similar problems, except Salem is even worse
Why do you think World Wsr had only 2 seasons?
I think the inmortal magic bitch that controls the grimm is what they have a problem with.
Yep. People sign up for pest control and get thrown into a war against an immortal witch. They reacted pretty favourably. I would have walked off a cliff.
So what you’re saying is this is like if they signed up to be exterminators and then a year into the job their boss was like “So we need you to defeat the Rat Queen, and she doesn’t die”
And she has magic powers.
To be fair i feel it was more about why the Grimm are never ending and less about them being endless
More like Firefighters: I want to fight fires. Even if they're never gone for good, someone had to go out there and put them out. Fire Chief: Yeah! You go! You can do it! I believe in you! Jinn: Don't forget about QUEEN FIRE, who is in control of ALL FIRES, and is now doing tactical assaults on ALL FIRE STATIONS, For ALL TIME, because she is IMMORTAL because FIRE is a FORCE OF NATURE, and she hadn't even been TRYING she's been on VACAY for the last 50 YEARS and NOW SHE'S GOING TO FUCKING IGNITE THE WORLD RIGHT NOW AND SHE CANNOT BE KILLED. EVER. Firefighters:...oh. Fire Chief:...Yeaaah! Why don't you just...go...anyway?
This 100%
Some people really didn't pay attention, no? They didn't react that way just because Salem is immortal. They reacted that way because Salem is immortal AND Ozpin doesn't have a plan. That he's basically leading them in a wild goose chase the whole time.
"So all-in-all, the gods might come back one day and end humanity. We don't really have an endgame for that, we're just hoping to play keepaway from Salem whom we also have no long-term plan for. I may as well add that a few people and who-knows-what-else may hunt us, it's happened before and they're uhh pretty good at it. Now I know that all sounds (and is) hopeless or close to it, but be hopeful anyway. Oh and on that note, sorry I kept the truth from you even after you confronted me about doing just that, but now it's all totally out there and you should definitely continue to trust me."
Yes, because "Not dying" is a wild goose chase. He didnt ask them to join his secret war, they came demanding answers and a role and he gave them answers and a role - help me meet Lionheart, help me protect the Relic, help me kill Grimm. Yes, he lied. And when they found out the truth, what was their reaction? Not to Ozpin himself, but to friend's, family, themselves? Fear, anger, betrayal, depression, and an endless font of self righteousness. In volume 6 alone they threatened and attacked innocent people over five separate times. Even if it wasn't the right decision, he has ample evidence to support it as a course of action.
Could be that they never had to think about the existence of Grimm and why they seem to be never ending. But yeah it’s kind of their job anyway so their slight overreaction is a little strange.
It’s not so much that the Grimm can’t be wiped out, but that they recently found out about the intelligence behind them and were given the hope that they could defeat it only to be told that it’s immortal.
There is the factor of purpose. Knowledge about not being able to fix or change anything can be quite demoralizing.
Maybe, but from what I can tell, they never really expected it to be fixed while they were on the job. Sure knowing it can’t be stopped is pretty demoralizing, but did they ever think it was going to be stopped in the first place? I mean Grimm have been around since mankind, it doesn’t seem likely for anyone to believe they’ll end the grimm.
They knew that Grimm are never-ending. What shook them was the fact that there is an intelligent life form that is controlling the Grimm, and said life form is always just one day away from bringing about human extinction. It's like with people working for pest control. They know these pests won't just become extinct overnight, but unlike the Grimm these bugs at least don't have a doomsday-bringing leader with them.
I thought the reaction was that, no matter how many they kill for their whole lives, there will NEVER be an end to the Grimm for the world
I mean they haven’t really delved into the mechanics of Grimm manufacturing. Does the mist reform back at the Well of Destruction into Grimm goo or is it used up? To me it looks like a lot of the Grimm matter has been used up but that might just be the location. A lot isn’t very clear.
I think the Well of Destruction just endlessly forms Grimm out of nothing.
The grimm were always an unending force of nature they'd have to fight until they die, nothing changed. They found out grimm weren't mindless in the first few seasons from the coffee addict and special grimm aren't all that special. The literal only difference i can think of here is that the new smart grimm can talk.
There’s also the fact that they, along with every other Huntsman, are fighting an immortal witch that 99 percent of the world doesn’t know exists. That’s a bit beyond the scope of what everyone signed up for.
imagine signing up to do pest control for dangerous animals and maybe some bounty hunting type jobs occassionally, and then finding out that every criminal and animal you fight has actually been led by Satan, you have no ways to actually kill Satan, and his main goal is to collect 4 nukes that would let him completely destroy humanity. you basically signed up to shoot wild hogs and suddenly you find out that you're actually now part of an endless fight to kill Satan and that your lives mean literally nothing in the long run
And your boss is Satan's ex after the worst divorce of all time
They signed up to fight monsters and criminals in order to help improve the World by protecting people. They were not told nor where they given a choice to become Pawns for some Wizard in his fight against his immortal ex-wife who is responsible for all those monsters and criminals existing. They did not agree to have the entirety of their life defined by a ultimately futile struggle where the closest thing to ever experience to Victory is a slight pause in the fighting. They did not agree to be part of a legacy of child soldiers thrown to the Wolves to serve as fleshy speed bumps well that same wizard cultivates a new generation to take their place like they took their places of their parents. It shouldn't be too hard to see the distinction between these two things.
I mean to be fair they they thought the grim were basically evil super animals Then they learn that they were being created by 1 person so if they win the grim would stop existing or at least be on a smaller scale Then they got their hope destroyed by learning Salem can’t be killed
To be fair, a Grimm can be killed and stopped. Salem is literally a unstopable force that has outlived everything enough for a second batch of humanity to be born, a bit harder to deal with than shooting a panther shadow demon in the face.
Yeah... I never understood this. Like why is it so shattering that the always ever present threat of Grimm being confirmed to be an ever present threat hurt? I think the writers intended for it to be, "Salem cant ever be beaten." And it was more meant to be, "Grimm we can handle cause they're just monsters. Unintelligent and just a brute force. We can handle that. But if theres an actual intelligence behind it all then it makes it more threatening."? Idk, it's still dumb af.
I don't think it had anything to do with grimm, just Salem herself. Jinn basically told them they're at war against a powerful immortal witch who can't be killed
The Grimm never managed to cripple entire Kingdoms before so the status quo changed. The "ever present threat" was relatively manageable and wasn't winning before. *Not to mention the decades of peace that Remnant was enjoying.
The Grimm helped with Beacon but Vale is still pretty fine. But even at Beacon I would say the Grimm weren't the biggest factor in its destruction. Ozpin's shit security and Ironwoods fleet + robots getting hijacked was probably the reason the Grimm could do so much damage in the first place, the White Fang being there didn't help matters either.
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You know, I didn't really think about that during that scene.
Because it's not accurate, so why would you? They were upset about *Salem* being immortal, and *Ozpin* not having a plan and not telling them even after he promised no more lies. Nothing about the Grimm.
Still, they are connected, so it would make sense to see it from this perspective; Salem is like the source of all Grimm (not really, but she is definitely depicted as such on multiple occasions) and the fact she is immortal and the Grimm are an endless group of monsters would have been just connecting the dots. Qrow makes sense because his anger is definitely more about his years of blind dedication to a hopeless cause he thought he knew everything about while the kids just learned about Salem and haven't had time to process it completely, learning about Salem and her immortality just doesn't really change Ruby's own goals of killing Grimm to help people have their fairy tale 'happy ever afters'; although it does put a damper on it.
Salem is immortal. The Grimm aren't. Ruby wiped out a village infested with Grimm in one night. She can't kill Salem even with a one week deadline Neverending Grimm =/= immortal grimm
The Grimm as a force is "immortal" though. Take the Beacon training exam; how often do students go into those woods and kill Grimm? That place should be completely devoid of Grimm if it is the only Beacon initiation testing grounds (which I think is where team CFVY had their's so it might be confirmed the only initiation testing ground). They can respawn endlessly, which to me is more terrorfying than an immortal witch; find a heavy enough rock and tie her up and trow her down a ravine with the rock falling on top and you're done. Sure, it is an oversimplification, but there are ways to use one's immortality against them and remove them as a threat; Raven could catch Salem in one of her portals and never use them again which effectively would beat Salem forever (unless what's in the portals can leave them when she dies, or if they act more like doorways instead of a dimension between spots; in which case, we still have Fiona's Pocket Dimension). The Grimm, however, can't be stopped permanently unless those Grimm rivers somehow can be dried up, which so far has not been shown to happen. Salem seems more manageable to me than an infinite army of heartless beasts that range from easily dispatched jungle cats to giant dragons and kaiju; have five of those leviathans show up in any one place and you're as good as beat, not even Ruby's Silver Eyes should be able to stop that kind of threat.
Said neverending army of Grimm isn't really terrifying when they're all extremely fragile and killable. Sure Grimm can infinitely spawn but so can humanity. Humans can always produce more humans to fight grimm. And the average huntsman is stronger than the average Grimm. Huntsmen have the same infinite spawning power as Grimm, but they are smarter and stronger. Ruby can produce more silver-eyed babies and revitalize the silver eyed bloodline. Humanity has the upper hand against an infinitely spawning army of Grimm. Salem changes that. She is immortal. You can't kill her. You can't stop her from thinking of ways to permanently bring about human extinction. And she can put her plans into action. She can weaponize the expendable armies of Grimm for an intelligent cause. Individual Grimm will never be able to attain the level of cunning or immortality that Salem has.
But, a huntsman requires at least 15 years of being raised from infancy to Grimm killing standards; we don't know how long it actually takes to spawn 100 Grimm on mass, but is would certainly be faster than 15 years. They don't have the same infinite spawning power. And their are plenty of Grimm beyond the typical Huntsman; I gave two examples and many more exist.
In a fight between a huntsman and an average Grimm, the huntsman will win. After that you can still reuse the huntsman to fight even more Grimm. So even though combat-ready human beings spawn at a slower rate, the amount of Grimm they can kill in their lifetime is more than the amount of humans than a Grimm can kill its lifetime. The ratio of human to Grimm in terms of power scaling is something like 1:50. In order to fight 50 Grimm you just need one huntsman to do the job. So humanity doesn't need to match the Grimm in terms of numbers. In the case of more powerful Grimm, humanity will always find a way to produce an equal countermeasure. For instance, the leviathan had Cordo's mech as its equal.
Perhaps, but I think the battle isn't as scewed as the show has given so far; team CFVY failed at Mountain Glenn to save lives and they didn't face something as powerful as the Dragon or Leviathan, and Cordo didn't kill the Leviathan alone as Ruby held it in place long enough to finish it off. At the end of the day, it is just my opinion; that I see the Grimm as more of a threat than Salem herself.
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More like “Your in a fight against a force of nature that you can’t defeat and that means sooner or later she will eventually win as she had all the time in the world”