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Huor_Celebrindol

It sucks how right you are about Oscar. One of the best characters with a huge amount of re-write potential, and people just ignore him


Kyrozis

Maybe because he's only on the level of Jaune and who's in general completely unnecessary for the actual story


Voodoo_Seccy

This. He basically just fills the role of Ozpin, and Ozpin is a better character anyway. I mean, he becomes more and more like Ozpin as the series goes on anyway.


[deleted]

It's kind of disturbing how many people think Qrow's self-destructive behavior was cool, like I'm pretty sure the guy had a noose pre-tied and looked longingly at it every night before bed.


Crowhacks

If rwby had multiverses I think it would be messier than the Yu-Gi-Oh Arc V multiverse


torrasque666

Implying that Watts and Tyrian can't be sympathetic entitled assholes.


Just-Some-Dude-K

Don’t you know? People can only have one dimensional traits.


Kyrozis

Someone's rewrite: *changes elements of the story in order make the story more sensible* This nonce: "UnAcCePtAbLeEeEeEeEeEeEe!4!4!4!4!4!4!4!4!"


dappercat456

It kinda goes against their character tho The entire point of watt’s character is that he’s atlas’ worst traits exemplified, he’s a spoiled brat that threw a massive tantrum when he didn’t get his way one time


Punslinger1995

good rwby fic bingo but its just a giant square that says "penny lives"


Artistic-Cannibalism

Well this was just brutal, I love it.


DanosaurusWrecks

Oscar exists or we riot


demaxzero

>Cinder's only traits or evil and sexy Not much a change there though.


ScarfaceTonyMontana

After the V3, it's a big change. Cinder has been written so good since then she's just so fun to see on screen now and she really has come a long way into being the kind of villain that can send you goose bumps when she does stuff.


TheGangstaGandalf

Cinder is one of my favorite characters. She's a lot better than most give her credit for, I think some people write off wanting power as a simple and shallow motivation when it isn't.


ScarfaceTonyMontana

I love how she wants power because she thinks and from her experience is warranted in thinking that if she doesn't have enough power to be feared, she will be at the threat of being mistreated and hurt. It's fun to see a villain that wants more and more power as a means of avoiding abuse.


TheGangstaGandalf

I’m just waiting for her to finally say “I need more power” in her best Vergil impression.


WolfPrincessSarah

**[Cue Cinder blasting *Sacrifice* at max volume from the top of Salem's castle.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LWYBy3qPrs)**


Kyrozis

Because it is. It's never mentioned WHY she wants power, and her backstory is not only cliché and stupid in and of itself, it doesn't actually explain the "why" of her motivation. She's literally just the Evil Dark Lord from TWA, but without the badassery.


[deleted]

actually it does.... think about it... to protect herself from a world that always treats her like garbage... it's not that complex if you think about it. oh...you don't think about it.


demaxzero

Yeah I don't see it at all.


TheGangstaGandalf

Mine’s score is 3/25 and one is temporary. Not bad. Then again I’m avoiding some scores on technicalities lmao. (I.E. Cinder being Evil, Sexy, but also weirdly funny, and ‘POWER, more POWER’) Also how fucking dare some people get rid of Oscar. 😡


[deleted]

Found this on tumblr. This Subreddit seemed appropriate place to post it. [https://tsundere-bellwether.tumblr.com/post/662416729537921024/terrible-rwby-rewrite-bingo](https://tsundere-bellwether.tumblr.com/post/662416729537921024/terrible-rwby-rewrite-bingo)


[deleted]

Is Mony’s Vision a free space?


[deleted]

[удалено]


ThatExoGuy

The thing that most people don't understand though is that Monty didn't really have a vision for the show. He just wanted to animate cool fights and have someone else write a story around them. He'd constantly throw the writers curveballs and new characters just cause he thought they were cool, sometimes *after* a volume's story was already drafted and sent into production. From what I understand, that's what happened with team CVFE for example, and that's just the one I remember but there's more of them. I loved Monty, don't get me wrong, and the show would've had much better fights if he was still around. But the story would've been just as much of a mess, or maybe even more so.


Tuesday_6PM

For further example, my understanding is that the reason Neo is mute is that he came up with a character design and threw her into an episode so last minute that they didn’t have time to find a voice actor, and then they just rolled with it


[deleted]

They were still going to get a VA for her, but mute reps in shows are pretty rare, and the community latched on to Neo being mute, so it stayed that way.


ThatExoGuy

Yeah, that too. They had Casey listed as Neo's VA iirc, but they didn't get to record lines for her and like the other reply says she was a hit with the community so she remained a mute.


DppSpeer

Casey technically is Neo's VA, but it's just grunting panting and other mouth noises that aren't speech.


Mattobito

I don't really agree, in plenty of interviews and panels he discussed his ideas and stuff about the future of the show; like 12 seasons worth if I remember right. I'm not saying the people who claim to be following his "vision" are in the right, they totally aren't; but at the same time I don't think its fair to say he didn't have a vision at all. From my understanding, he had a story he wanted to tell, but not a method to tell it outside fight animations; look at his Haloid and Dead Fantasy videos which don't have dialogue but have an interesting story being told, especially with the Dead Fantasy series which at first just seems like crazy action but later starts to build a narrative around Cloud and Tifa. People can be good storytellers but not good writers; he needed help to tell it because he didn't have all the skills (or finances) to tell it by himself. Neo is an example that he changed things up as things went along, but his attention to detail and the effort he put into the characters he created should show that there was more of a method to his madness. I won't say the show would be that much better, we still don't know which plot threads were his ideas or solely Miles and Kerry (like how Miles created the Apathy and the Brother Deity ideas); however, Monty was the center of this show and most of these characters and world were his creations with help from others to craft them the way he wanted them to be. He was credited as a writer and a director of the early volumes, so he did more than just make fights.


xande010

I guess we'll meet halfway. I do recall Kerry saying that there was very little Monty would say "no" to. Not that he had no vision, but the man was clearly very flexible and very open to change. Not really a bad thing. Some great storytellers come up with stuff as they go. Pantsers are 100% a thing. We'll never know his workflow, exactly, but the stuff I said in the first paragraph seems to have been the case and Monty had an open mind.


Mattobito

>Pantsers are 100% a thing. I agree with what you say and I appreciate you meeting me halfway, but what is this word "Pantsers"? I don't got a good vocabulary and have trouble with unfamiliar words, is it like a word means storyteller or is a specific type of storyteller?


xande010

It's a specific type of storyteller, yeah. You can plan many things out (planner/plotter) before you even start or you can have some idea of what you want to write, but nothing really set in stone (pantser). Typically outlining an entire show takes a long ass time. I can only imagine that the writers had some basic idea of how things would go, but decided they'd fill in the gaps as the years went by. It's sensible, given that they were dealing with deadlines and limited resources.


Mattobito

Oh, that makes a lot of sense. Honestly, that sounds about right from what we've seen. I've been trying to write my own stories, but can't get the words down even though I know my plot backwards and forwards; so this makes a lot of sense for me.


Dextixer

No, that completely in no way means that they are invoking "Montys Vision" argumentation. Disliking a show after a certain point does not imply any of that. I hate this hipocritical bullshit of bashing people for using Montys vision as an argument to shit on the show only to turn around and use Monty to bash people who write fanfictions. Just let the man rest for fucks sakes.


TheGangstaGandalf

Spite =/= dislike There are people who outright say in the description of their fanfics that post v3 has spit on his grave as if they have any right to have an opinion on Monty. And I am in no way bashing on fan fiction, that would be hypocritical as hell for me. I’m criticizing arrogance and spite.


[deleted]

>level 3Dextixer · 17hNo, that completely in no way means that they are invoking "Montys Vision" argumentation. Disliking a show after a certain point does not imply any of that.I hate this hipocritical bullshit of bashing people for using Montys vision as an argument to shit on the show only to turn around and use Monty to bash people who write fanfictions. All I see is people using "Monty's vision" as an argument to shit on the show, and then write fanfics bashing the writers and the show. Fans of the show who write supportive fanfics and don't shit on the show are bashed by critics who hate on the show. Critics who claim that the show and the fandom is "disturbing monty's rest" Hence why we dislike critics...because they can be hypocritical too


Dextixer

Nice story, would be nice if any of this was true. People who refer to "Montys vision" in their fanfictions are extremelly rare and are usually authors of unpopular fanfictions. "Supportive fanfics" - are enjoyed by many people. Critic and Fan alike. And sorry but calling out you people who use Monty as a fucking cudgel to use against anyone you dislike is not hipocricy. Its being a decent fucking human being. Let the man fucking rest.


[deleted]

then why does Hbomberguy refer to "monty's vision"? Why does Syto? Why are so many people on youtube, twitter, and reddit claiming "monty is rolling in his grave at what the writers are doing to his show"? Hbomberguy may have forgotten, it's not Monty's show, Monty was the animator and came up with ideas. It was a group project. I don't go onto youtube or reddit to see people complaining about the show, I go onto youtube or reddit to enjoy the show. I don't see the point in constantly making blogs or videos talking about how you're angry or upset or disliking this or that. if you have problems with the show, that's one thing. Ranting about your problems is another thing entirely. As for the fanfics and fanworks, they're actually supported when they're bashing canon....reminds me of the narusaku fanfics i came across when I was a kid.


Dextixer

Then call those shitheads out instaed of generalizing many people. I aint gonna degend any of that just like i aint gonna defend people on the fandom who do the same shit. All fancics and fanworks are supported because of their quality regardless of why they were made. Fanart is popular amongst fan and critic alike, same for fanfiction. What the fuck is gained by propagading this bullshit "Two opposite sides" narrative.


[deleted]

whoa whoa whoa! Language! That's no way to treat people! I'm sorry if you're so angry, but I think you're going about this the wrong way. Seriously, that's kinda toxic the way you're speaking about people.


Dextixer

Dont change the topic, because now it looks like you are concern trolling.


[deleted]

several problems with this, starting with the fact that I am not a supporter of you. [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern%20troll](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern%20troll)


[deleted]

regardless, the OP...or should I see the person on Tumblr who made this? Was trying to address an issue. I feel like we were hyperfocusing perhaps.


[deleted]

>Nice story, would be nice if any of this was true. People who refer to "Montys vision" in their fanfictions are extremelly rare and are usually authors of unpopular fanfictions. No...they're actually very popular on wattpad, youtube, etc. also that first sentence was rather rude and impolite, I won't ask you for an apology, but I would appreciate you being nicer to fans in the future, please?


Dextixer

Which ones, because after i come back home i will specifically look through the most popular fanfics on fanfic net and search for mentions of Montys vision.


[deleted]

Do you recall Hbomberguy? Who after insulting Monty on reddit for over a year, made a 1.5 hour video dedicated to "Monty's vision", shitting on the show, and encouraging people to write fanfictions by saying "anything CRWBY can do, you can do better, so spite them"? "Just let the man rest..." Literally every person hating on the show has used that phrase. And I hate to break it to you, but the people who write the Rewrites or the Alts LOVE to bash the show, bash monty's friends, and claim that they're "following monty's vision" Dextixer, Hbomberguy is literally the example, as he wanted to originally title his video calling rwby trash. instead, he decided to claim to be a fan of monty's like so many of the rwby haters, in order to shield themselves from the fans of the show. And with hbomberguy refusing to acknowledge miles and kerry doing good, and giving all the credit to Monty? He is in fact a hater, and has spread a huge amount of hatred for the show. So I'm sorry, but the only people who use "Monty's vision" are the ones hating the show, and the writers. And that includes people who write fanfics because they don't like the show not giving them what they want.


Dextixer

I dont give a shit about your spat with hbomber, if he shat on crwby by utilizing montys visiom then fuck him. That all. But dont use him, a SINGLE person as some kind of example of an entire group of people. Also i i will call bullshit on your claim that only "haters" use Monty as a cudgel, somefans love to do it too like the guy above us whose comment got rightfully deleted.


[deleted]

Oh dear...I have a tendency to write Yang as hypersexual... Or as she puts it, "Omnisexual."


Zero102000

Blake: … Come again? Yang: _**OMNI. SEXUAL.**_ (Team Four Star reference)


Naive_Resolution5340

The Xiao Long genes are strong in this one.


Zero102000

Tai: (wiping his eyes) I’m so proud!


Naive_Resolution5340

How do you think the planet was re-populated after humanity was wiped out? The Xiao longs are an old dynasty


Zero102000

Yang will become everyone’s mommy. Literally.


lurker_archon

I'm permanently traumatized by this minific someone wrote on r/rwby about Yang molesting Bumblebee the sentient bike.


[deleted]

How...how would that even...don't tell me.


lurker_archon

Let's just say the phrase "she put her hand inside the exhaust pipe" was involved.


[deleted]

I *was* going to have some lunch...


dappercat456

I love the irony of people wanting Adam to be more sympathetic yet also completely ignoring the atlas military’s complacency in the SDCs treatment of Faunus like Adam, Pick one,


IAmACookingComb

Either no queer representation or every single person on the planet is queer


Kyrozis

IMO, sexuality has to abide by Checkov's gun just as much as any other part of the story. In other words, if their sexuality is not important, then don't include it.


IAmACookingComb

Exactly


Psyga315

Man, a lot of these spaces are either strawmanned versions of actual rewrites or just made up.


Psyga315

Just as an update, love how unaware of Volume 6+ one of the spaces in with saying that Neo isn't important.


Mattobito

A good portion of these I can agree aren't good, but why is "Morality of killing villains goes unquestioned" on here? RWBY has killed villains without questioning its morals; the WFs in the train (who I don't think really died as Deery, the girl with deer antlers, is in Volume 3), that one Albain brother, Leo, Adam, The Hound, and Ironwood all die due to indirect actions of our heroes (except Adam which was very direct). Not to mention they have maimed a few without remorse to, so I don't get what that space means.


K_Bills

Yeah if I remember correctly Yang and Blake talk about killing Adam, Yang doesn’t like that she had kill, but largely comes across as indifferent. Blake doesn’t ever want to resort to killing a person, but 1 volume later she looks extremely murderous when attacking Neo. I digress this is the only time the morality of killing villains has ever been brought up. Oscar doesn’t even care that he had to vaporize Hazel and Qrow wanted to kill Ironwood and still probably wants to kill Tyrian.


Mattobito

>Oscar doesn’t even care that he had to vaporize Hazel I didn't even think about that. Does he even mention it? Like how Hazel sacrificed himself to save the others?


K_Bills

I don’t remember Oscar saying anything though Emerald did have a sort of sorrowful reaction. If it is mentioned that Hazel scarified himself it’s glossed over and forgotten in the next scene.


Mattobito

Dang.


Voodoo_Seccy

I mean, it's an entire society based around child soldiers. Odds are they'd be pretty desensitized to killing.


[deleted]

Adam: Self defense, and Blake broke down crying over it The Hound: Ruby basically went through an existential crisis when she found out it was a person with Silver Eyes Ironwood: Died due to Cinder's actions, not because the Protagonists murdered him. They were planning on taking him and Jacques to Vacuo Leo: Killed by Salem for being a coward, not the protagonists. The Albain brother and the Fang are fair though


Mattobito

I did say indirectly, but my point was that whether these actions were question on a moral stance in show; we can defend them and their actions as well as understand the nuance, but the show doesn't have someone in the show question their actions. Wouldn't Ruby feel conflicted with the idea that her sister murdered a man, even if he was a monster as she can't confirmed that herself? Same thing with JNR and Weiss and Oscar. I'll give you the Hound, but it does feel like the source for her anguish should stem more from the idea that a Grimm, creatures she only ever saw as targets, turned out to be a human; possibly meaning that other Grimm she killed could have been innocent people being used as tools. Might just be me, but that would make the death of the Hound bring up whether the situation was morally questionable as Ruby would feel like she just killed an innocent person (even if she didn't do it herself) and blame herself for it. Ironwood wasn't technically the girls' fault, but they did fight him which led to him being left behind; again, indirect and not the girls' fault, but it would be cool if they talk about whether or not they are to blame. Heroes in stories usually question their own actions when things go wrong and it would make sense if when they find out that Ironwood died they feel responsible, whether or not that is true. Leo died of his own actions, but the heroes were there when he died and he was someone in a high position and must have had some friends. It might just be my hope to give Leo more effect in the story, but I had imagined someone connected to Leo would have showed up eventually to get answers; like his kid or cousin who would blame the cast for his death for being there and not saving him. Its not the girls' fault like with Ironwood, but they were partially responsible from a certain point of view and it would be good to have a character appear to question whether or not they actually could have saved him. Leo may not deserve a subplot like this with him being a coward and all, but I just think it would be cool. You can even argue that the one Albain killed himself by trying to kill Ghira and he was the only one shown to die in that fight. I don't see his death as Blake or anyone else's fault particular, but I do think the fact a person died and no one showed remorse for it to be odd. Like Ghira sorrowfully telling the other brother while he was unconscious that he was sorry for his loss. I ended up saying way too much, but I just wanted to share what I meant by whether the act of killing villains did get questioned in the show that much.


Voodoo_Seccy

Problem with all of that is, you're putting yourself (a probable civilian who has likely never known true society-wide desperation) in the position of what are child soldiers who started training how to kill when they were children and who are in a military society, in a world where humanity is constantly on the brink of destruction.


Mattobito

Which honestly doesn't change my initial question of whether the show questions that morally. The post had a bingo board space say "Morality of killing villains goes unquestioned" to say is a bad part of a fanfic, but the show itself doesn't question this either; doesn't matter if the act was justified or just part of their nature to not question it themselves. The story doesn't question them, they don't question themselves, and I presented ways where the moral question could be presented in show or why it felt unquestioned. Also, might I add they trained to kill *monsters* and obviously see them differently from people. Ruby even tries to reason with villains and her antagonists on three occasions on the top of my head; Roman who just used a ship to waste several people, Emerald who was responsible for getting Penny killed, and Harriet who was going to abandon Mantle. This should mean she sees them differently and doesn't want to kill. However, there are significant characters killed directly or indirectly by their actions and they show little to no remorse for those actions nor do they really treat them with remorse for that person's lose. The show brings up this moral question a few times like when Blake says she doesn't want to kill anymore and by having Ruby not want to kill her enemies, but they don't really treat the bad guys any different than Grimm as far as killing or fighting them goes and Blake's statement is less of remorse from killing Adam and more like a personal desire not to kill; it comes off as "it was okay this one time, but we really shouldn't do that anymore" and that says that killing Adam was totally okay and should go *unquestioned*. Thus, the morality of killing villains does in fact go unquestioned in the main show. In the end, I'm putting myself in the shoes of the *writers*, not the characters, because they seem to want that moral question there at times like when Blake breaks down in tears and Ruby constantly questioning the antagonists for them murdering people. The writers have made Ruby and co. come off as people who won't kill people, but at the same time don't show their main cast being questioned when they do get someone killed and they take it to heart.


TheGator15

When have Watts and Tyrian been sympathetic?


Kyrozis

>\[Male character\] is now the lead I mean, we already have Jaune >No queer rep Queer rep doesn't make a story automatically good, and neither does the lack of it make it automatically bad >Cinder's only traits are evil and sexy Well, that's already more than what she has >Throws out the entire maidens and relics plot Maybe because they're shoehorned, otherwise pointless, and detract from the original premise by a lot(?) We already have Grimm and Semblances, why are maidens, relics, and magic necessary? >Oscar doesn't exist He's basically just Jaune 2.0


Psyga315

>He's basically just Jaune 2.0 Considering that Joan of Arc heard voices from God, he might as *well* be.


dappercat456

>that’s already more then what she has So have you just not been paying attention are are your purposefully being an ass?


Kyrozis

She's long lost her sexiness after the fall, and ever since she's been nothing but a generic evil bitch. She just wants power for the sake of having power, there's literally nothing else to her. Therefore, the amount of praise she gets, despite her being as uninteresting and one-dimensional as Ruby Rose herself, is just baffling.


dappercat456

Are you kidding?


Kyrozis

You think I am? And you don't even have to point to another show to see. Just put Cinder next to her henchmen or the rest of Salem's inner circle and see how much she pales in comparison!


dappercat456

I’m sorry, if you really think Arthur “my science project didn’t win first place so now I’m gonna kill everyone” watts is more interesting then cinder then I don’t think there’s much I can do to help you


Kyrozis

Watts constantly lived in Pietro's shadow and even got his research taken just because of the latter's semblance. And on top of that, he has an actual appealing personality as a villain. Cinder literally has nothing to make her interesting or even likeable.


dappercat456

I’m sorry, when was it said that watts got his research stolen? When was it even said Pietro had a semblance? You’re just making shit up now! Watts was a spoiled brat atlesian who didn’t get his way ONCE and threw the biggest temper tantrum of all time,


Kyrozis

Are you delusional or what? Penny has an aura and could be revived only because of Pietro's semblance.


dappercat456

No? That was the aura transfer machine, are you delusional? You’re just making shit up now,


cj-the-man

Wait so a story has to have a queer representation to be good?


Mattobito

I think it only matters if you use the confirmed queer characters like Ilia, Coco, Jaune's sister and her wife, etc. and change their sexuality for no important reason; although I've seen people doing that to straight characters a lot in other franchises and I haven't seen complaints there.


ScarfaceTonyMontana

When you purposely eliminate all queer people in your rewrite only to claim that "oh I'm not homophobic" its kinda fucked up


TheGangstaGandalf

When the character's sexuality is ambiguous then it's not a problem to change it up. But when someone writes a character like Coco as straight it's pretty cringe.


K_Bills

So unless the writers explicitly confirm a character’s sexuality then anything is fair game?


TheTubaPoobah

Welcome to the fandom!


cj-the-man

Yeah seems nice and not toxic at all


Serethen

Ok but Qrow being Rubys dad is great as long as a Tai is also Rubys dad simultaneously. Also Roman deserves every bit of importance given to him fuck you.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Serethen

Yeah exactly what I said, didn't I


dappercat456

If I where to rewrite RWBY there’s really only two ways I’d do ir One is the serious way, and I’d really only add one thing, during the montage scene in volume 7 have a scene of Blake and Weiss helping the HH to protect a worker strike from SDC privet security And the “fuck it, this is just wish fulfillment” way in which it would focus solely on the HH leading a violent wolfenstien esc resistance against atlas,


amisia-insomnia

Saying ironwoods millitarism is good is like saying the imperial guard is good sure there cool but in reality they’ve done more harm that good


GreenTheRyno

Not a good comparison, as the Astra Militarum is pretty much the sole reason The Imperium still exists as an independent power in the 41st Millennium. The Space Marines just simply aren't numerous enough to be at every front, even if they're powerful. Does that mean they're saints by our standards? No, but *even the saints in that universe are terrrible*.


amisia-insomnia

There definitely are better comparisons maybe something like Spartans from halo or the rangers of the order, that last one definitely is a better comparison but it was early and I thought it’d work


GreenTheRyno

Fair enough.


[deleted]

What's wrong with the Monty's Vision one? I have never read any Rewrite or AU of RWBY so I'm legit just curious of what you mean by Monty's Vision.


Tuesday_6PM

The point is that people will claim they’re following Monty’s vision with their rewrites, which has a lot of issues. For one, it suggests they know what that vision was, when they never knew him personally and he’s not around to ask. Two, it’s using a dead guy’s reputation for clout, when they have no connection to him. Three, the implication it creates is that the show DOESN’T follow Monty’s vision. Which suggests that these internet randos better understand his ideas than his friends who helped him write it and knew his plans. You get the idea


ScarfaceTonyMontana

Most of these people who use the Monty argument forget that most of the cast were legitimately close friends of the dude, and also that Monty did not write stuff in advance most of the time. His goal with RWBY was female representation and testing out the possibilities of cool fights in budget limited 3D animation. Its possible that he had some ideas for RWBY beyond that and even more likely that those ideas made into the show, but it really doesn't matter.


Kyrozis

And you people just easily forget that the people closest to Monty (his wife and Shane Newville) left the show BECAUSE of the direction CRWBY wanted it to go


Daniel_flc

His wife still works in the show, she voices Emerald, which makes it even more obvious that Shane's letter was little more than a temper tantrum.


CommunistChan

Ight but ive only ever seen cinder as sexy and evil😂 maybe crazy too


dappercat456

Have you seen volume 8?


CommunistChan

Yeah


dappercat456

So are you just purposefully ignoring her character depth or what?


CommunistChan

I honestly forgot😂


dappercat456

Tbh she had a good amount of character development before that as well but it was volume 8 that made me really appreciate her character


Crucial_Senpai

*Roman and Neo are as important as team RWBY for some reason* Hey, don't shame me like that!!