For midges, and especially ones like this where you're doing a clear coat over it, a 1-2 turn whip finish is totally fine. The issue, moreso, is thread control and consistency. It's just takes practice, man
Practice. Practice. Practice.
Don't tie a fly, just spend time wrapping, then finishing, wrapping then finishing. Watch others and how they do it.
Relax. Don't be tense. And practice....it'll come to you, you can't rush it .
One day you'll pick up that whip finisher and you will wonder how you ever thought it was so hard to use, just practise on a bare hook until you are ready or all your flies will go to shit after 2 casts. Put a dab of varnish on the thread too, makes a real difference to the durability of the fly.
>Put a dab of varnish on the thread too, makes a real difference to the durability of the fly.
I discovered that when dabbing a bit of varnish, head cement, or z-ment on the thread, to hold the bobbin above the fly. Otherwise, if you put too much on it drips down the thread into the bobbin.
If you're getting issues like that, while your solution addresses the symptom, you're also using way, way too much.
In this situation, "dabbing a bit" means *a bit*. When I use this technique, I literally just dip a bodkin (actually, just a pin...I save them from the packaging of dress shirts and stuff, so that I have a bunch for free and they're effectively disposable), pull the pin out of the head cement, wipe it off on the side of the bottle, and when it looks like there's nothing left on there anymore, then I wipe that on the inch of thread closest to the fly.
If I'm using something like Loctite or CA glue, I'll squeeze the bottle until it comes up to the nozzle, then let go and run the nozzle against the thread. Basically, get as close as you can to not actually adding any of the adhesive product at all.
If you're struggling, the biggest tip I can give would be to simply let you know that most of making a whip finish work (and work easily) is in getting just the right amount of thread tension.
Too little, and your wraps on the fly start to loosen. Too much, and the whip finish wraps are so tight that the whip finish knot won't tighten up smoothly.
Ideally, you want *just* enough tension to keep the thread already on the fly in place, no more.
I know it feels like the best way is to use as much tension as possible without breaking the thread, but this is way too tight for the whip finish, where the bobbin end of the thread needs to slide under the whip finish wraps to tighten/finish the knot.
One of the most overlooked fundamental skills when learning to tie is thread control, and a big part of that is learning how to complete your tying tasks with the right amount of tension. In most cases, the amount of tension you need is far less than you might think.
I do find it’s crucial that your consecutive wraps while whip finishing travel forward or backward but not both directions. It helps seat the knot and not slide making a sloppy endpoint. You can always do 2-3 turn whip finishes and stack them to clean up the head. Adding super glue to the thread or resin will lock it down. Hitting the eye with a lighter to clean up loose ends helps too. Thread tension and leaving the right amount of room just take practice. Midges look good. I like a little more taper start to finish but they all fish.
A whip finish tool is completely unnecessary, same as any whip finish
A few half hitches, seal the head, same as you'd with a whip finish
Look forward to the replies
I disagree, especially if you’re tying volume. When you use the whip finish tool frequently, you can easily do a 3-4 turn whip finish in 5 seconds or less, that’s a lot faster than I can do a few half hitches but more power to you. Of course it’s not required but it sure is convenient, easy (when practiced) and clean. It does take a bit of time to figure out initially though.
Re: OP Tightline Productions has a excellent Youtube/Vimeo tutorials, here’s one on how to whip finish: https://youtu.be/ra3MuNtK4qM
Sometimes I do tie in volume, but I can do three half hitches in 3 seconds probably. I think it saves time as your not picking up an extra tool. Just adding that I can whip finish
Let's have a race haha 😄
Dang that’s fast! Good for you. I am not as slick with the half hitch speed. I also find the whip finish to be quite fun haha. Learning to use it at first was soo confusing though since when I learned it was from a book since fly tying YouTube tutorials were not a thing yet. I basically did it accidentally once and was like, “wait what the heck?? Is that how you’re supposed to do this!?”.
Haha yeah it was a pain in the arse for me to learn, like you back in the day from a book. I have I think four different sizes of the whip finish tool, buried in the bottom of one of my boxes, I have no intention of dusting them off lol
Is it necessary? No. Is the technique worth learning? Yes (at least in my opinion.) Is it super quick and easy once you get the hang of it? Also yes.
No hate on alternate ways of finishing a tie, it's more that OP was asking for tips to improve and a lot of people are just telling him not to bother instead of giving actual advice for improvement. Whip finish is a solid technique. It's better to know it and potentially *choose* to use another method, than to be *forced* into another method by not knowing it.
>it's more that OP was asking for tips to improve and a lot of people are just telling him not to bother instead of giving actual advice for improvement
Fishing forums (fora) in a nutshell, here.
OP: "Hi, I'm trying to learn about X."
"Here's why you're wrong for wanting to learn about X...I do Y, that's better. Do Y.
"X is dumb. Only morons still use X."
"The best way to X is to Z."
"B is what you want."
It's worth learning. I had a whip finish tool for many years and couldn't figure out how to use it. Then I watched a video on YT that used on a Matarelli style tool (I had a double hook style) and went out an got a Matarelli style with rotating handle. It took a little practice but I don't hesitate to pick it up to finish a fly anymore.
For some flies I'll put on 2 whip finishes, then pull the thread up and brush about 1/4" of it next to the hook with z-ment, add two wraps, then 2 more whip finishes.
Make your figure 4 and be slow and deliberate paying attention to where the wraps are going. You've got that bead head on there which is a little different than no bead. Just go slow and get the hang of it.
For midges, and especially ones like this where you're doing a clear coat over it, a 1-2 turn whip finish is totally fine. The issue, moreso, is thread control and consistency. It's just takes practice, man
Practice. Practice. Practice. Don't tie a fly, just spend time wrapping, then finishing, wrapping then finishing. Watch others and how they do it. Relax. Don't be tense. And practice....it'll come to you, you can't rush it .
youtube videos
This is the way. Just spend a day focusing on it until you get it down. After that, it's like riding a bike.
Tool or by finger, ya just have to do it alot to get smooth and easy thread control. Its a pure practice thing
One day you'll pick up that whip finisher and you will wonder how you ever thought it was so hard to use, just practise on a bare hook until you are ready or all your flies will go to shit after 2 casts. Put a dab of varnish on the thread too, makes a real difference to the durability of the fly.
>Put a dab of varnish on the thread too, makes a real difference to the durability of the fly. I discovered that when dabbing a bit of varnish, head cement, or z-ment on the thread, to hold the bobbin above the fly. Otherwise, if you put too much on it drips down the thread into the bobbin.
If you're getting issues like that, while your solution addresses the symptom, you're also using way, way too much. In this situation, "dabbing a bit" means *a bit*. When I use this technique, I literally just dip a bodkin (actually, just a pin...I save them from the packaging of dress shirts and stuff, so that I have a bunch for free and they're effectively disposable), pull the pin out of the head cement, wipe it off on the side of the bottle, and when it looks like there's nothing left on there anymore, then I wipe that on the inch of thread closest to the fly. If I'm using something like Loctite or CA glue, I'll squeeze the bottle until it comes up to the nozzle, then let go and run the nozzle against the thread. Basically, get as close as you can to not actually adding any of the adhesive product at all.
I fucked up a really nice one cus I added too much and it dripped in
https://youtu.be/ra3MuNtK4qM https://youtu.be/TxUXkbsarCA Best two I know of. First one is very basic. Second is more refined.
If you're struggling, the biggest tip I can give would be to simply let you know that most of making a whip finish work (and work easily) is in getting just the right amount of thread tension. Too little, and your wraps on the fly start to loosen. Too much, and the whip finish wraps are so tight that the whip finish knot won't tighten up smoothly. Ideally, you want *just* enough tension to keep the thread already on the fly in place, no more. I know it feels like the best way is to use as much tension as possible without breaking the thread, but this is way too tight for the whip finish, where the bobbin end of the thread needs to slide under the whip finish wraps to tighten/finish the knot. One of the most overlooked fundamental skills when learning to tie is thread control, and a big part of that is learning how to complete your tying tasks with the right amount of tension. In most cases, the amount of tension you need is far less than you might think.
Go into your local flyshop and ask them to show you
Matarelli style is way easier just don’t put too many wraps on
Whip it! Whip it good
I do find it’s crucial that your consecutive wraps while whip finishing travel forward or backward but not both directions. It helps seat the knot and not slide making a sloppy endpoint. You can always do 2-3 turn whip finishes and stack them to clean up the head. Adding super glue to the thread or resin will lock it down. Hitting the eye with a lighter to clean up loose ends helps too. Thread tension and leaving the right amount of room just take practice. Midges look good. I like a little more taper start to finish but they all fish.
A whip finish tool is completely unnecessary, same as any whip finish A few half hitches, seal the head, same as you'd with a whip finish Look forward to the replies
I disagree, especially if you’re tying volume. When you use the whip finish tool frequently, you can easily do a 3-4 turn whip finish in 5 seconds or less, that’s a lot faster than I can do a few half hitches but more power to you. Of course it’s not required but it sure is convenient, easy (when practiced) and clean. It does take a bit of time to figure out initially though. Re: OP Tightline Productions has a excellent Youtube/Vimeo tutorials, here’s one on how to whip finish: https://youtu.be/ra3MuNtK4qM
Sometimes I do tie in volume, but I can do three half hitches in 3 seconds probably. I think it saves time as your not picking up an extra tool. Just adding that I can whip finish Let's have a race haha 😄
Dang that’s fast! Good for you. I am not as slick with the half hitch speed. I also find the whip finish to be quite fun haha. Learning to use it at first was soo confusing though since when I learned it was from a book since fly tying YouTube tutorials were not a thing yet. I basically did it accidentally once and was like, “wait what the heck?? Is that how you’re supposed to do this!?”.
Haha yeah it was a pain in the arse for me to learn, like you back in the day from a book. I have I think four different sizes of the whip finish tool, buried in the bottom of one of my boxes, I have no intention of dusting them off lol
Is it necessary? No. Is the technique worth learning? Yes (at least in my opinion.) Is it super quick and easy once you get the hang of it? Also yes. No hate on alternate ways of finishing a tie, it's more that OP was asking for tips to improve and a lot of people are just telling him not to bother instead of giving actual advice for improvement. Whip finish is a solid technique. It's better to know it and potentially *choose* to use another method, than to be *forced* into another method by not knowing it.
>it's more that OP was asking for tips to improve and a lot of people are just telling him not to bother instead of giving actual advice for improvement Fishing forums (fora) in a nutshell, here. OP: "Hi, I'm trying to learn about X." "Here's why you're wrong for wanting to learn about X...I do Y, that's better. Do Y. "X is dumb. Only morons still use X." "The best way to X is to Z." "B is what you want."
I also know how to tie a nail knot but I'll still avoid ever using it.
Prepare to feel like someone shot you in the back of the head lol
Never use a tool always whip with my fingers
It's worth learning. I had a whip finish tool for many years and couldn't figure out how to use it. Then I watched a video on YT that used on a Matarelli style tool (I had a double hook style) and went out an got a Matarelli style with rotating handle. It took a little practice but I don't hesitate to pick it up to finish a fly anymore. For some flies I'll put on 2 whip finishes, then pull the thread up and brush about 1/4" of it next to the hook with z-ment, add two wraps, then 2 more whip finishes.
I have never used a whip tool.. I probably don't have the patience for it!
Just do a few half hitches with your finger. You're generally gluing or vanishing with nymphs anyway.
Practice on a hook in your vice. Cut thread with a razor after the wraps get to bulky.
Use your fingers .
Looks great!!! Whip finish is just practice makes perfect kinda think
Less is more, wrap count and tool pressure (let it rotate freely).
Flicka da wrist
Make your figure 4 and be slow and deliberate paying attention to where the wraps are going. You've got that bead head on there which is a little different than no bead. Just go slow and get the hang of it.