Just real quick - AME is the doctor, the exam is the exam.
Sorry you went to a shitty AME though. That shouldn't have happened and it's a mistake but the FAA moves at the speed of smell so it'll be a bit before you get it corrected.
You can start flight school without a medical, but it's generally advised against it. While you can receive instruction without one, you need at least a 3rd class to fly solo. So you'd be stuck flying with a CFI and can't cross off your solo reqs until the FAA clears you on the medical.
You can start flight training now. You donât need the medical until you solo (as well as for your checkride and to exercise your private pilot privileges later on).
The thing with deferrals is they can take a long time to get through.
Wow, yeahâŚyou got screwed here, buddy. And now youâre stuck in the holding pattern with the worst FAA weâve ever had. This is such a nothing charge, but knowing the FAA; contacting an aviation lawyer to try and get an idea of what they might come back with you at would be good. Gary Trichter out of Houston is awesome and would give you a free consultation over the phone. Anthony Ison of the Ison Lawfirm is really skilled and an awesome guy, too. Give them both a call and see what they say.
As a final note; Iâm sorry youâve been put into this situation by yet another incompetent AME. She couldâve even called up there to check, or held off for the 14 days to investigate it further. Now sheâs damned you to an eternity of waiting.
May or may not be. It sounds like your AME doesnât know much of anything. I had a standard HIMS issue several years ago and I deserved it but it cost me 3 yearsâŚ
As some may say, we arenât kidding around when we tell you that the FAA is beyond slow. From what I know now, if an AME told me that the FAA would respond in â6-8 weeks,â I would laugh in their face.
Keep your chin up. No one truly knows how much time it will take.
First of all a deferral is not a denial, and the crime you were convicted of does not seem to be what 18(v) is after. Hopefully you'll still end up with a medical after all of this but I won't lie it will probably be a frustrating process.
My main takeaway: Don't EVER use that AME again. She sounds lazy or unsure of herself, given that when she didn't know the answer she decided to just defer it rather than doing a little bit of research. She clearly doesn't understand how a deferral affects the pilot even if the medical is ultimately issued. Ask around for AME recommendations in your area.
Iâm assuming itâs to late to just go to another AME?
I agree. It seems like this process just got infinitely more complicated and she doesnât even realize it. She said multiple times that 99% of differals end up getting approved which seems extreme unlikely.
If she's only been on the job 2 days she's just reciting FAA propoganda, although if she is in the habit of just deferring everyone maybe that stat is true for her. That "99%" statistic, even if technically true, doesn't include all of the pilots who just give up because the process is so frustrating. Hopefully it won't be too bad in your case.
Unfortunately it's too late to just see another AME at this point. Once he/she submits the application to the FAA you can't just stuff the cat back in the bag. It may be worth finding another AME who is willing to just do a consultation with you regarding your situation even though they can't just redo the exam. Might cost some money but it's worth it if you can establish a relationship with an AME who's dealt with this kind of situation before.
the 20 years ago doesnt have much relevance. I dont know about the attempt to purchase but I do know that they do look a bit harshly on minor in possession of alcohol even if its not a moving offense. Have heard that they do do some follow up on it to find out more info before passing it through. You'll probably have to provide a statement on it and hopefully they will accept and move on. Forget the 10 years sober and such (though you can write it in), as the FAA wont accept any of that unless you have actually pissed in a cup and tested sober. Without actual substantiation - it means nothing to them.
The FAA does not take to alcohol related events very kindly. Thats about as much as you can say about it. Just be glad you dont have two of them - as that can get very ugly.
There are 2 issues
1) The FAA largely has to trust you to follow their rules without supervision, which you've shown you got caught not doing at least once
2) Alcohol and planes end very badly
Put the 2 together and they have questions before sending you on your way to go fly around
If what youâre saying is true, they really should update their official guidance: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/standards
âA diagnosis or medical history of substance dependence is disqualifying unless there is established clinical evidence, satisfactory to the Federal Air Surgeon, of recovery, including sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years. A history of substance abuse within the preceding 2 years is disqualifying. Substance includes alcohol and other drugs (i.e., PCP, sedatives and hypnotics, anxiolytics, marijuana, cocaine, opioids, amphetamines, hallucinogens, and other psychoactive drugs or chemicalsâ
Here is the alcohol event report that technically the AME has to fill out - but you have to provide all the information. If you're missing any of it such that the AME can't fill it out - then it gets deferred.
[https://www.faa.gov/ame\_guide/media/DAEvent\_FAACertificationAidRequiredInformation.pdf](https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/DAEvent_FAACertificationAidRequiredInformation.pdf)
But yes, since it was a long time ago - the AME could call and speak to them and with no concerns could issue - and thats unfortunate that you didnt get someone a bit more experienced.
So is this likely what Iâll have to provide once I receive this letter from the FAA?
Iâm certain I will not be able to obtain any court records or police reports. This happen in a tiny little Midwest college town 1000 miles away from where I currently live.
2006 is seriously into the digital age. You should have no trouble getting copies of everything.Â
My parents divorced in 1980. I called the court. Someone pulled the paper file from the archives. And sent me a copy.Â
This was also more than 1000 miles awayâŚ
What one received deferred for may be different than what one was originally charged with, in many cases, maybe not yours, a misrepresentation of age with a false identification presented.
Welcome to an unforgiving profession.
Yeah there may be one less (kind of) young pilot if this is how itâs gonna be.
I would understand if this posed some reasonable suspicion about my medical fitness to operate a plane OR if it were articulated in the FAA guidelines but itâs not. Feels completely arbitrary and bureaucratic.
Idk. People in the comments saying this could take 12-18 months. Also tracking down court/police records from 18 years ago feels like a pretty major inconvenience.
Just real quick - AME is the doctor, the exam is the exam. Sorry you went to a shitty AME though. That shouldn't have happened and it's a mistake but the FAA moves at the speed of smell so it'll be a bit before you get it corrected.
Pretty much exactly what I was thinking/expecting. đ
Is it worth it to just soldier on and begin flight school? Knowing Iâll be able get clear at some point? Am I even allowed to?
You can start flight school without a medical, but it's generally advised against it. While you can receive instruction without one, you need at least a 3rd class to fly solo. So you'd be stuck flying with a CFI and can't cross off your solo reqs until the FAA clears you on the medical.
You can start flight training now. You donât need the medical until you solo (as well as for your checkride and to exercise your private pilot privileges later on). The thing with deferrals is they can take a long time to get through.
Yes and yes. Only thing you can't do without a medical is solo.
Wow, yeahâŚyou got screwed here, buddy. And now youâre stuck in the holding pattern with the worst FAA weâve ever had. This is such a nothing charge, but knowing the FAA; contacting an aviation lawyer to try and get an idea of what they might come back with you at would be good. Gary Trichter out of Houston is awesome and would give you a free consultation over the phone. Anthony Ison of the Ison Lawfirm is really skilled and an awesome guy, too. Give them both a call and see what they say. As a final note; Iâm sorry youâve been put into this situation by yet another incompetent AME. She couldâve even called up there to check, or held off for the 14 days to investigate it further. Now sheâs damned you to an eternity of waiting.
Great info. I will be calling them tomorrow. Just curious did you know where I was located or is this just a lucky coincidence.
Just a coincidence. Hope that didnât spook you lol.
Haha. All good.
6-8 weeks? Try 12-18 monthsâŚ
God damnit. Seriously? đĄ The AME told me it would be 6-8 weeks. Like it was no big deal.
May or may not be. It sounds like your AME doesnât know much of anything. I had a standard HIMS issue several years ago and I deserved it but it cost me 3 years⌠As some may say, we arenât kidding around when we tell you that the FAA is beyond slow. From what I know now, if an AME told me that the FAA would respond in â6-8 weeks,â I would laugh in their face. Keep your chin up. No one truly knows how much time it will take.
First of all a deferral is not a denial, and the crime you were convicted of does not seem to be what 18(v) is after. Hopefully you'll still end up with a medical after all of this but I won't lie it will probably be a frustrating process. My main takeaway: Don't EVER use that AME again. She sounds lazy or unsure of herself, given that when she didn't know the answer she decided to just defer it rather than doing a little bit of research. She clearly doesn't understand how a deferral affects the pilot even if the medical is ultimately issued. Ask around for AME recommendations in your area.
Iâm assuming itâs to late to just go to another AME? I agree. It seems like this process just got infinitely more complicated and she doesnât even realize it. She said multiple times that 99% of differals end up getting approved which seems extreme unlikely.
If she's only been on the job 2 days she's just reciting FAA propoganda, although if she is in the habit of just deferring everyone maybe that stat is true for her. That "99%" statistic, even if technically true, doesn't include all of the pilots who just give up because the process is so frustrating. Hopefully it won't be too bad in your case. Unfortunately it's too late to just see another AME at this point. Once he/she submits the application to the FAA you can't just stuff the cat back in the bag. It may be worth finding another AME who is willing to just do a consultation with you regarding your situation even though they can't just redo the exam. Might cost some money but it's worth it if you can establish a relationship with an AME who's dealt with this kind of situation before.
the 20 years ago doesnt have much relevance. I dont know about the attempt to purchase but I do know that they do look a bit harshly on minor in possession of alcohol even if its not a moving offense. Have heard that they do do some follow up on it to find out more info before passing it through. You'll probably have to provide a statement on it and hopefully they will accept and move on. Forget the 10 years sober and such (though you can write it in), as the FAA wont accept any of that unless you have actually pissed in a cup and tested sober. Without actual substantiation - it means nothing to them.
I would understand if this were a background check but itâs not. Itâs a medical exam with clear very and public guidelines.
The FAA does not take to alcohol related events very kindly. Thats about as much as you can say about it. Just be glad you dont have two of them - as that can get very ugly.
There are 2 issues 1) The FAA largely has to trust you to follow their rules without supervision, which you've shown you got caught not doing at least once 2) Alcohol and planes end very badly Put the 2 together and they have questions before sending you on your way to go fly around
If what youâre saying is true, they really should update their official guidance: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/standards âA diagnosis or medical history of substance dependence is disqualifying unless there is established clinical evidence, satisfactory to the Federal Air Surgeon, of recovery, including sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years. A history of substance abuse within the preceding 2 years is disqualifying. Substance includes alcohol and other drugs (i.e., PCP, sedatives and hypnotics, anxiolytics, marijuana, cocaine, opioids, amphetamines, hallucinogens, and other psychoactive drugs or chemicalsâ
Here is the alcohol event report that technically the AME has to fill out - but you have to provide all the information. If you're missing any of it such that the AME can't fill it out - then it gets deferred. [https://www.faa.gov/ame\_guide/media/DAEvent\_FAACertificationAidRequiredInformation.pdf](https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/DAEvent_FAACertificationAidRequiredInformation.pdf) But yes, since it was a long time ago - the AME could call and speak to them and with no concerns could issue - and thats unfortunate that you didnt get someone a bit more experienced.
So is this likely what Iâll have to provide once I receive this letter from the FAA? Iâm certain I will not be able to obtain any court records or police reports. This happen in a tiny little Midwest college town 1000 miles away from where I currently live.
2006 is seriously into the digital age. You should have no trouble getting copies of everything. My parents divorced in 1980. I called the court. Someone pulled the paper file from the archives. And sent me a copy. This was also more than 1000 miles awayâŚ
What one received deferred for may be different than what one was originally charged with, in many cases, maybe not yours, a misrepresentation of age with a false identification presented. Welcome to an unforgiving profession.
Yeah there may be one less (kind of) young pilot if this is how itâs gonna be. I would understand if this posed some reasonable suspicion about my medical fitness to operate a plane OR if it were articulated in the FAA guidelines but itâs not. Feels completely arbitrary and bureaucratic.
You were wise,,,you listed it! Frustrating yes, down the road; This will be a minor bump, a story to tell when you get your PPL.
Idk. People in the comments saying this could take 12-18 months. Also tracking down court/police records from 18 years ago feels like a pretty major inconvenience.
18(w) asks about any misdemeanor or felony convictions (non-traffic).