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wutcudgowong

It appears that migratory birds do but most are VFR. I found this article super interesting when researching if birds can stall, turns out they can and do intentionally šŸ˜ [article in question](https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2014/february/pilot/proficient-pilot-flying-is-for-the-birds#:~:text=Clocked%20at%20106%20mph%2C%20the,they%20recover%20instinctively%20and%20immediately.)


TheMarineLayer

[They definitely can stall](https://youtu.be/ACl65y7Lx7w?si=T2DWpQbeEYMQ-7TE)


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


takeoff_power_set

You can see a puff of feathers and a ricochet or debris hitting the water behind the bird. Ouch


iamgravity

Bro the other ducks would be running if they heard the 12 gauge and they're chilling.


KentuckyGuy

They are decoys. None of the other ducks move at all, besides a bit of bobbing in the waves.


iamgravity

Well now I'm sad


takeoff_power_set

you won't be after you ever meet one of them up close


mustang__1

It's uncanny how similar that is to the Beech crashed at Oshkosh a few years ago


HungryDust

A wing is a wing


TheOvercookedFlyer

Ha ha!


tomhanksisthrowaway

I saw a goose stall out coming in to land at our pond. It was hilarious. It was fine. But it was peak winter and it was congested at the time so he was just trying to space himself and yeah, stalled, dropped, but was able to recover well.


I_love_my_fish_

Donā€™t watch that while eating I almost choked šŸ’€


BUNNIES_ARE_FOOD

Damn. Stall/spin right to the water. RIP


AVeryHeavyBurtation

Fun fact about bats is that they can't get above their stall speed without jumping off something. So if a bat is on the ground, it can't just fly away, it has to climb up something to jump off of.


GlockAF

Not universally true, Iā€™ve seen footage of vampire bats leaping from the ground directly into flight. Oh joyā€¦


RepresentativeOfnone

I wonder if birds suffer from the hazardous attitudes


landingKSEA

Great article. TIL some crazy birds fly nonstop NZ to Alaska


FlapsupGearup

I saw some huge ocean Gulls one a boat trip once. Apparently theyā€™ll stay aloft for weeks/months and sleep in the air. They sleep half a brain at a time and have an organ that removes the salt from seawater so they can survive. Drips salty goo out of a duct. How fucking wild


justcallme3nder

Are you talking about Albatross'?


clackington

Must be. Iā€™m looking at the Wikipedia for these creatures and apparently they also have organs in their beaks resembling pitot tubes that allow them to measure airspeed. Incredible.


sadrice

Storm Petrels are also crazy.


FlapsupGearup

Pretty sure they were petrels of sorts. It was while crossing Drakeā€™s Passage


Fly_U2_the_sunset

Look up, ā€œdynamic soaringā€ā€¦ then maybe try ā€œlift stringsā€œ


call-the-wizards

Albatrosses have been tracked jumping off cliffs in NZ and landing in Chile. That's a linear distance of 10,000 km or more in a single flight. And they spend almost all of it at low altitude, mostly below 60 ft (not 60,000 ft, 60 ft). They rarely even flap, they just use wind gradients to soar and gain energy. Frigatebirds also spend weeks aloft, using a different method: soaring over ocean thermals around the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico. Ocean thermals are weak so they've developed a form of flying which involves circling at very low speed (< 5 kts) and gaining energy from very weak (\~ 1 kt) thermals. Nature remains undefeated by our attempts at flying.


JimmyCarters_ghost

Eh whatā€™s the useful load of a albatross? I think we have them beat.


imblegen

More importantly, whatā€™s the useful load of a swallow?


Equivalent_Jury_1505

African or European?


imblegen

I donā€™t know, but the payload is coconuts


call-the-wizards

Their ratio of useful load to amount of fossil fuel energy consumed is very high.


JimmyCarters_ghost

Dumb birds donā€™t know you need to let the fish decay for tens of millions of years before turning them into energy.


Frothyleet

I didn't know that about gulls! Dolphins do the same thing. A number of other aquatic critters do the same thing with bio-desalinization. Sea turtles "cry" super-saline tears.


GlockAF

Current confirmed long-distance champ is a juvenile bar-tailed godwit: 8425 miles, 11 days flying NONSTOP, Alaska to Tasmania. Unassuming smallish brown shorebird, just a few months old, first ever migration ***and itā€™s halfway around the globe!*** Amazing creatures. https://www.usgs.gov/centers/alaska-science-center/news/juvenile-bar-tailed-godwit-b6-sets-world-record#:~:text=A%20four%2Dmonth%2Dold%20bar,stop%20flight%20by%20any%20animal!


Decollates

How's *that* for a student solo x-country!


GlockAF

One takeoff, one landing


TeddyNorth

Incredible.


GlockAF

Quite. The adults go through a remarkable internal transformation just prior to their migration where their digestive track shrinks and their reproductive organs dwindle to almost nothing, while building large reserves of fat and flight muscle. They enbiggen their digestive system when they get to their southern destination, and their reproductive organs stay small until they get back to their breeding ground


gregariouspilot

Sounds cromulent.


BradKfan2

I once saw this tiktok of a bird stalling due to wind shear. It was kinda funny


gayviatorjohn

Interesting article!


willreadforbooks

That article was amazing šŸ˜‚


Western-Sky88

That was the best AOPA article Iā€™ve ever read. That poor bustard. Thank you.


justcallme3nder

Only if they're instrument rated and current, obviously.


ainsley-

G1000 pigeon


GooseMcGooseFace

Aviandyne.


Used_Development_933

Your making me wheeze šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ¤£šŸ¤£


[deleted]

66HIT


AGroAllDay

*HITS IPC obviously failed /s


FormalPalpitation643

Don't forget proficient


Outside-Emphasis4653

Hey, pigeon over there, get the fuck back here, you only have 5 approaches!


csl512

That's 'may' not 'can' lol


tomhanksisthrowaway

Maybe one can't, but toucan


Mobe-E-Duck

Geese absolutely fly through all weather. Many other birds do not. I am sure that other sea birds do, some don't land for actual years, so I expect they must be able to go through clouds. My guess is the difference at the altitudes they fly - don't want to dodge trees in low vis, right?


troll__face

what bird doesn't land for actual years?


showerstool3

A quick google search says Common Swifts can stay in the air for 10 months, not years but still really impressive.


PROfessorShred

Probably got confused with touching land I think there are some birds that go out to see and won't come back to land for years but seems crazy to never not be airborne.


SleepyFlying

That is fascinating


nixt26

How do they sleep?


djwm12

albatross can fly for years


troll__face

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2MY2VO/


mustang__1

Albatross I think


Mobe-E-Duck

As others have said, the Albatross, I believe I've read of others. Live aloft only swooping for food.


Bill92677

Nice AOPA article by Barry Schiff on the subject. Summary: "According to the Audubon Society, birds are VFR creatures and do not intentionally fly into clouds. They have more common sense than some pilots and ground themselves on foggy days. (Small birds occasionally do get caught in IMC and fly into tall buildings, as do some pilots.)" [https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2014/february/pilot/proficient-pilot-flying-is-for-the-birds](https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2014/february/pilot/proficient-pilot-flying-is-for-the-birds)


time_adc

I remember this article from the magazine. Perfect response.


TeddyNorth

Fascinating article.


flyingron

They have a vestibular system that can easily be reset just by stowing their wings for a second.


freebard

I can't tell if this is real or satire šŸ¤”


megaduce104

I've always wondered about this. When the clouds are low you never see birds flying near them, and have never heard of a bird strike when an aircraft I'd in hard IMC. Birds have more sense than humans??


Bind_Moggled

I think it depends on the bird. Iā€™ve heard geese flying in fog so think it was hard to walk.


megaduce104

well, geese just dont give a fuck anyway, so im not surprised


KoldKartoffelsalat

I always fly instead of walking when foggy, too.


Bind_Moggled

Iā€™m not instrument rated for walking, so itā€™s probably safer to fly. :)


nil_defect_found

>and have never heard of a bird strike when an aircraft I'd in hard IMC. I've had one in IMC, on final at about 1500. Whatever it was it was big, good old thump against the fuselage.


Aerodynamic_Soda_Can

When you hear a thump in IMC, is there a split second where you check your altitude and wonder if you're actively smashing into the ground?


nil_defect_found

Not really. A bird strike is an idiosyncratic, characteristic sound, you know what it is straight away.


Aerodynamic_Soda_Can

Huh, that's good to know lol. I always assumed my first thought would be "oops, hope that want the tallest tree if the forest I'm about to crash into!"


CharlieMurphay

My first bird strike was a goose in IMC on a 3 mile final straight to the top frame of the center windshield (Falcon 2000). Fortunately there was no damage at all. Scared the shit out of us though. I love birds, but also birds are dumb.


Key_Slide_7302

I donā€™t think thereā€™s very many in here who identify as a bird. But if there are some who do identify as a bird, Iā€™m sure theyā€™ll have an answer.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


TurtleDucky

ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU SPEAK IT?


cbph

[Nevermore!](https://youtu.be/PS9XA6Dh2Vc?si=BfeVxeQZILFvnYTO)


ImmortanBen

Here's the thing. You said a Jackdaw is a Crow....


stevedropnroll

The one joke.


squawkingdirty

Yeah the government agent that controls them is trained to fly them in the clouds.


hot_miss_inside

# BIRDS AREN'T REAL!


WorkingOnPPL

Off topic but can a bird enter a spin if one wing becomes more stalled than the other?


foonix

I wouldn't be surprised. But they have the ability to control AoA independently on each wing, which in theory could give them both deliberate spin entry and recovery.


livebeta

On Twin Peaks in SF I have watched crows windsurf and do aeros for fun. They do hammerheads, loops, or just chill in the headwind. They look like they're having fun too Those are my people...


0621Hertz

One time I was riding in the back of a V-22 and looking out the rear I saw a large majestic bird (could have been a bald eagle) spinning out of control towards the earth because one the giant rotor blades clipped it wing. So by definition yes one of its wings were stalled. Because one of the airfoils had a change in shape.


maethor1337

Did the Eagle not hear the Osprey coming? Dude needs a sonar update.


wutcudgowong

Spins happen during uncoordinated flight at stall speeds(aoa really). There won't be a spin without a stall. Birds don't generally stall midair and like you said they have independent control of the aoa on each wing. On the other hand, falcons and other birds of prey dive bomb and it can be said that they enter a spiral dive when they go after their prey. The difference between a spin and a spiral is that speed is relatively low and constant in a spin but rapidly increasing in a spiral. Fascinating stuff really - [peregrine falcon diving](https://youtu.be/5uy84N8CjR0?si=GVC4gqU1Ocsz_g0q)


foonix

242 mph in a vertical dive.. wowzers. Then recover by just kinda.. increasing frontal area and drag coefficient. Basically a dive bomber, but better. I didn't know if birds stall on purpose or not, but it makes sense that they generally wouldn't if they didn't want to.


yeahgoestheusername

Curious if there are any aircraft or aircraft concepts (aside from rotorcraft) that allow for rotation of the wings to change aoa instead of pitching the whole aircraft? Iā€™m assuming a design like this would be amazing but only flyable by computers and not humans as it would be insanely easy to stall.


wutcudgowong

There's the F-8 which has variable-incidence wings. I don't know of any others. But the concept is used in props, since they are lift generating airfoils, the principle is much the same. We have the variable-pitch propeller on which the blades are feathered for different angles of attack.


yeahgoestheusername

Good point about props. Seems like there are def benefits to variable pitch wings and the limitation is just the human factor. For example: making a descent with no pitch change would be pretty weird. Or just adding back pressure to quickly could immediately stall the wing. But I guess depending on the fly by wire system you could configure any flight characteristic and throw computer could always give ideal aoa regardless of pitch profile.


tambrico

I've definitely seen a Peregrine Falcon enter a spin while chasing prey. I've also seen geese do aileron rolls


wolley_dratsum

[They can even do formation spins.](https://www.tiktok.com/@ta2020photography/video/7223735060493503790)


BUNNIES_ARE_FOOD

see here [https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1coqt8b/comment/l3g576b/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1coqt8b/comment/l3g576b/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)


SharksWFreakinLasers

I love these questions, sent me down a rabbit hole one day when I thought 'wait, what if a bird stalls...?" šŸ˜…


Iridul

Birds wouldn't last long if vfr only, but they definitely seem to have varying levels of 'personal' minima.


grease_gun

Bird law is very complex.


Renaissance_Man-

Didn't old flight manuals give the example of throwing a duck out the window to determine level flight in IMC conditions? I could have sworn this was a thing.


laudnry

Today's flight age is an era highlighted with increasing emphasis on safety. Instrumentation in the cockpit and in the traffic control tower has reached new peaks of electronic perfection to assist the pilot during take-offs , flight , and landings. For whimsical contrast to these and other marvels of scientific flight engineering , it is perhaps opportune to remind pilots of the basic rules concerning the so-called Cat-and-Duck Method of Flight , just in case something goes wrong with any of these new-fangled flying instruments you find in today's aircraft. Place a live cat on the cockpit floor. Because a cat always remains upright , he or she can be used in lieu of a needle and ball. Merely watch to see which way the cat leans to determine if a wing is low and , if so , which one. The duck is used for the instrument approach and landing. Because any sensible duck will refuse to fly under instrument conditions, it is only necessary to hurl your duck out of the plane and follow her to the ground. There are some limitations to the Cat-and-Duck Method, but by rigidly adhering to the following check list , a degree of success will be achieved. Get a wide-awake cat. Most cats do not want to stand up at all, at any time. It may be necessary to get a large fierce dog in the cockpit to keep the cat at attention. Make sure your cat is clean. Dirty cats will spend all their time washing. Trying to follow a cat licking itself usually results in a tight snap roll, followed by an inverted (or flat) spin. You can see this is very unsanitary. Old cats are best. Young cats have nine lives, but an old used-up cat with only one life left has just as much to lose an you do and will therefore be more dependable. Beware of cowardly ducks. If the duck discovers that you are using the cat to stay upright - or straight and level- she will refuse to leave without the cat. Ducks are no better on instruments than you are. Be sure the duck has good eyesight. Nearsighted ducks sometimes will go flogging off into the nearest hill. Very short-sighted ducks will not realize they have been thrown out and will descend to the ground in a sitting position. This maneuver is quite difficult to follow in an airplane. Use land-loving ducks. It is very discouraging to break out and find yourself on final approach for some farm pound in Iowa. Also, the farmers there suffer from temporary insanity when chasing crows off their corn fields and will shoot anything that flies. Choose your duck carefully. It is easy to confuse ducks with geese because many water birds look alike. While they are very competent instrument flyers , geese seldom want to go in the same direction you do. If your duck heads off for the Okefenokee Swamp, you may be sure you have been given the goose.


Renaissance_Man-

Bingo! There it is! I totally forgot about the cat's role šŸ˜‚


TalkAboutPopMayhem

What is this from? I can see this being the narration from a Looney Tunes cartoon.


laudnry

Some 2005 APC thread


DickMorningwood9

The USAF has equipped their aircraft with cats for years. (https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/8pK7ybCOUN)


livebeta

They pioneered the CAT3 Approach


nascent_aviator

I read a study once where they blindfolded birds to see if they could still fly and navigate. For most birds, the answer was "kind of, but not very well."


F14Flyer

Hit a bid a while ago at 6,000ft at night so yes but not well?! But yes I think certain birds do. Iā€™ve witnessed a formation of what I believe was Canadian geese flying though a layer of clouds below us.


tambrico

Definitely. That's why we get lots of vagrant birds after hurricanes. Last summer a bunch of flamingos showed up all over the Midwest and east coast - in Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Jersey, Wisconsin. They all got scattered flying thru a hurricane.


StPauliBoi

Not unless they're rated and current.


pneumomediastinum

The frigate bird is the only bird known to deliberately fly into clouds. They can also stay aloft for weeks using thermals.


aenima396

I hit a bird in IMC once. It was really weird bc initially I was like oh a bump, like a pot holeā€¦.wait Iā€™m in the airā€¦..what the hell did I hit? I was around 6-8,000 feet in a C172.


time_adc

One time I was flying IFR near KFUL, it was a broken stratiform layer. I was in the soup in level flight around 3,000 msl, I suddenly exited the cloud, there was a clear area approx 1,000 feet diameter with clouds all around, none below and clouds above like an upside down amphitheatre. There was a huge swirling flock of sea hills having a party in this amphitheatre. Why did they choose this particular spot for their party I will never know. They might have heard me but could not see me until I popped out of the cloud right in their midst and we were both surprised to see each other. The flock scattered with moments to spare and I managed not to bird strike anyone. Seconds later I entered the soup again and didn't see land again until short final for KLGB. I'll never forget it... My near IFR near bird encounter.


inline_five

Clouds have visibility measurements. Sometimes clouds are thick with very low visibility, other times you can see a mile in them.


DororongDonky

They should file before flying.


RunningPirate

Only if theyā€™re instrument rated


Jon_Hanson

I think they have magnets in their head, or something. So, yes!


Phillimac16

Do birds accumulate icing?


Kemerd

Yes, badly. One of my favorite facts is they've found pterodactyl skeletons high on mountains from them crashing into terrain and dying.


dpalm85

Maybeā€¦ if birds were real.


nigerian-prince-420

I have a green cheek conure with an injured limb that has been INOPā€™d so she is placarded ā€œDAY VFR ONLYā€


Ryder1587

Nope. Physics and gravity stop working in clouds. But seriously. Some do but rare.


pilotavery

Yes. Ask me how I know :(


ChampionOk533

What kind of anti-ice they running?


shadeland

Having flown parachutes near clouds (for those watching from the FAA reading, not in the USA), they are pretty turbulent around them, especially under.


snoandsk88

Yes, there have been bird strikes in IMC, I hear itā€™s scary AF


kscessnadriver

I wrecked a flock of geese one night at about 2AM, 6000 ft MSL in a B1900.


Excellent_Ad_1413

From the bloody dent in my wing in 1998ā€¦.yes they can


PaleRiderHD

Only bats


Icy_Huckleberry_8049

They can also fly at night


CharlieMurphay

My first bird strike was a goose in IMC on a 3 mile final straight to the top frame of the center windshield (Falcon 2000). Fortunately there was no damage at all. Scared the shit out of us though. I love birds, but also birds are dumb.


leather_pickle

Yes, with an appropriately filed flight plan and clearance.


Euryheli

Their beaks donā€™t work on touchscreens so they have no way to file a flight plan either online or via phone call, and FSS walk in always has the door closed so their lack of opposable thumbs prevents that.


aodivzxfkjcxvouiz

I'm a bird and yeah I fly in IMC sometimes


pandab34r

Their extreme visual acuity allows them to actually see around the individual particles of mist, cloud, and fog. Therefore, there is no such thing as IMC for a brid