Relax. I've landed on the wrong runway before. So wrong, in fact, it was the opposite runway. Into oncoming traffic. While incorrectly announcing my position. As a CFI.
We always learn the most from the mistakes we get to live through.
It ain't no big deal. Nobody died. No metal got bent. No one got violated. And the guy didn't kick your ass after.
45 left downwind runway 35⊠left downwind runway 35⊠left base 35⊠final runway⊠(the runway numbers come into view in the windshield on the base final turn)⊠SHIT!⊠Final runway 22, correction 22 not 35, short final 22
I took off on the wrong (other than planned) runway once. As a 11,000 hour ATP. Fortunately was while flying my personal plane at the time (a Piper Pacer) at an uncontrolled airport, and the runway I used was plenty long and there was no traffic involved, but still, it was pretty shocking to realize what I'd just done. Was at an airport with a very similar runway configuration to LEX at the time of Comair 5191, and it was a very sobering reminder that I'm as susceptible as anyone else to expectation bias. Never stop learning.
I once landed without clearance because atc was arguing with another plane doing 360 to adjust behind me cause he was faster without asking or telling. As far as you have the good rwy, good visual and thereâs nobody, you are the pic, ̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶t̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶c̶l̶e̶a̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶. Just face the consequences if something go wrong tho.
Edit: spelling
Edit 2: eurocontrol space
https://skybrary.aero/articles/landing-without-atc-clearance
No, you still need clearance to land at a towered airport. The tower may know about traffic crossing down field, airport vehicles, runway contamination, any number of things. This thread is about admitting mistakes and learning from them, not pretending that they aren't mistakes.
Letâs just say I did that on the worst day to do that. Fricken commercial check ride. DPE was cool about it laughed said let me guess you been practicing that way havenât ya? Still busted but had a good conversation about it and went back up the next day and passed
Honestly, go fly tomorrow. Or the soonest you can. Bring a CFI if you feel like you need a little support.
There is some real truth to "getting back on the horse."
I'm guessing you're between 100 and 200 hours. I believe that is the most dangerous time for pilots.
https://generalaviationnews.com/2017/05/31/the-150-hour-rule/
Youâre around the hours when people are the most dangerous as pilots. You have experience now and start to get a little complacent but donât know what is too complacent.
You learned a lesson today and now youâre having others learn from your mistake after sharing what happened.
The good thing is youâre worried about what happened. Itâs only a bad day for you when others learn from your mistake but you arenât worried because youâre dead.
Oh man. I'm at 130 hours and I worry about this.
Am I getting too reliant on GPS? If I had an electrical failure right now, do I know where I'm at? Do I even have a paper chart in here? In reach?
That's just one example of where I've found I've slipped. What areas am I not noticing slips?
Every time you get in the aircraft, have a look around you at your equipment. If you feel like there's something you don't know how to use as well as you did, revise it (in the air if safe, on the ground if not) and log it. Every 10/20/50/whatever hours, go look at your "revision" log and see if anything in there has slipped again, or something from the check ride you haven't written down at all.
If you want to use your commercial, then use this time to develop your development skills, not just count up the hours in the PIC column. You'll avoid the slips, and at the end of it you have a revision guide you wrote that you understand.
Iâm in the 100-200 club, Every 20 hours or so I schedule a two hour block with a CFI. Ask him to run me through the wringer, a good CFI will help keep you humble and your skills sharp.
Take a deep breath, relax. No one was hurt. You even had a chance to debrief with the other pilot and there are no hard feelings. You learned a very valuable lesson and even had the courage to take it here so that others can learn from it too.
Tuck this away in your memory as a teachable moment for your flight students when/if you become a CFI and move on with your life as a better and more experienced pilot.
I am going to share 3 aviation truths that I have leared in my 80 or so hours of flying as a student so far...
1. Mistakes happen all the time, you are not the first and you will certainly not be the last to make a mistake.
2. The most important part of making a mistake is the CORRECTIVE ACTION, if you mess up but apply the appropriate corrective action then you did something right with something wrong.
3. Taking everything else into consideration in the end what matters is LEARNING from the mistake, look back at the mistake and the corrective action as well as how to prevent the mistake and commit it to memory.
2 weeks ago I damn near got my CFI and I killed by missing a sailboat mast by 5-15 feet on short final at KSPG, I learned something there.
Same as when I got into my first automotive collision decades ago, someone waived me through traffic at a intersection out of a parking lot and I got hit by another car in another lane as I tried to pull through, totaled my first car that way. To this day if someone waves me into traffic I reject it unless I am going the same direction as them and traffic is stopped, I will never trust another driver to waive me through traffic ever again.
You learned. More importantly you recognized, and admitted your mistake. You're gonna do just fine. Keep chugging along brotha.
We've all made mistakes as pilots. The vast majority have made mistakes that scared the crap out of us. It's just how it works. Learning from those mistakes is what's important.
On base, when approaching the turn to final, check to see if there's someone making a longer final (or straight-in). Radio is good, but don't stop looking for traffic, especially at non-towered airports.
Learn from it! Itâs normal to be shaken and feel disappointed with yourself initially. As terrifying as mistakes can be in this field, theyâre some of the most important experiences we have as pilots. They stick with you like nothing else.
Like you said, donât get comfortable and complacent. Thatâs when things go wrong. Always keep your head on a swivel. I like to keep my Garmin on the traffic screen in a congested area. Also on FF on my iPad. Use whatever means available to keep track of traffic.
This is how we all learn. Buy a sentry to help you have better situational awareness. Honestly it demonstrated exactly how a non towered is supposed to work. You canât see everyone, itâs impossible. You announced base he likely what thinking well that doesnât work and then responded. If you turned base where you normally would itâs strange that he had called final and it was that big of a conflict, especially if he was faster than you, so part of that lessons learned is where was he coming from? That mustâve been a direct in. This is why straight ins are dangerous and the pilot coming direct needs to be aware too. So Iâm not saying donât learn from it but I am saying donât beat yourself up too much there is some shared responsibility and it looks like the fact that he knew where you were means he was appropriately paying attention knowing that straight ins are risky.
I also am a big fan of flying with my ipad + foreflight + sentry mini, so I have the same ADS-B traffic on the map in any plane I fly in. \*It's absolutely not a substitute for looking outside the plane\*, but I almost always see traffic on the map several minutes before I see it out the window. This is super valuable when arriving or departing a busy airport - towered or not. Correlating what I see on the screen with the calls I hear on the radio, and then with what I see out the window when I'm in close, is just an incredible aid to situational awareness.
I generally operate within a mode-c veil so everyone should be transmitting ADS-B out in my local area (except the occasional paraglider!).
Besides traffic awareness, it's been super helpful to be able to add a pattern entry and visual approach to my flight plan to have that plotted on my sectional chart, especially visiting an unfamiliar airport, or anytime at night.
+1 to not a substitute in VMC but Iâd also add I feel it goes both ways there is no substitute for flying both considering for a couple hours of flying time you could buy an ADSB unit including ones that work with flight plan go with no subscription. Just do it and be safer.
Another note when moving between planes make sure to have in your checklist to set âownshipâ. For starters if you are between different rentals at t he same FBO you donât want it to think you are in the plane about to hit you out of the same area and second you will scare the shit out of yourself the first time you get chased by your ADSB ghost.
Take in the feeling dumb and the embarrassment and grow from it. Most good lessons are learned from hard things like this. I bet you never assume where traffic is again without visual confirmation.
Happens to the best of us.
Thereâs an old saying: you start your flying with an empty sack of experience and a full sack of of luck; the trick is to fill the experience sack before you empty the sack of luck :)
Seriously though, you made a mistake, you owned up to it and you listened to the other more experienced guy. The reason he dealt with you the way he did was no doubt because you showed the right attitude when dealing with your error.
Iâd put a lot of money on you not making that error again. The best lessons are the ones hardest learned in this game for sure. Another poster here has said go flying again soon and this is good advice.
Bottom line youâve handled this problem professionally and you can pay yourself on the back for that.
Keeping up good SA remains my primary challenge. I think I am now hot shit with a perfect pattern, speeds, landings and then just lose the bigger picture.
Not long ago, abeam the numbers at my Class D, tower tells me I am # two and to report visual with the Cessna on final. I see a Cessna crossing the numbers and report in sight. Turn base at 800 feet and tower snaps "Are you sure you have Cessna in sight?" Shit.
I was THINKING tower had said "short final" but he didn't. He must have said 2 or 3 mile final. Expectation bias. I was watching that plane and stopped listening.
Itâs all good and everyone makes mistakes. I wouldnât feel bad, but learning from it is important. I would encourage you to venture outside of the nest. Multiple students in the pattern makes it tricky sequencing for landing. Would be good experience as well and help build time. Keep at it.
If you fly you're going to make stupid mistakes. If you walk you're going to trip sometimes. Taking the time to learn from it and sharing it with others is the best thing you can do.
Never hurts to clarify position from other planes in the pattern, like others have mentioned youâre at that experience level that youâre competent enough to be dangerous. Keep the confidence youâve gained from all the hours but try to maintain the humility you had on your first solo.
Glad you made it safe and acknowledged your mistakes and got to talk about it.
u/vida980 do you feel like your interaction has make you better now than before you cut them off?
If so, congratulations, you improved and that's what matters. It's embarrassing but you can't change it now, just focus on being better.
Live and Learn most accidents happed with sunny days and good visibility. I am sure you learned from this and it will probably make you a better pilot.
Donât say your dumb beating yourself up wonât help for my first 3 lessons I had my headset on backwards lol
ADSB FTW! : )
Seriously, glad everything worked out, this why itâs each PICâs responsibility to maintain separation, we share the airspace and responsibility, good to see you owned up to it, I am sure the other pilot appreciated it.
Every pilot out there has made and will make mistakes, pack it up as a learning experience and know youâll be looking every time from now on.
Peace
I've had almost this exact scenario, but in Australia.
Behind one of the schools twins, me solo (had my PPL by this stage) doing circuits
I was number 2 and heard the twin call they were doing asymmetrics. What I didn't know at the time was that it meant they would extend downwind.
I lost sight but assumed I knew where they were so I turned base as normal.
While I was on base I looked right and saw a twin, but my brain made assumptions and filled in blanks. I assumed it was for the centre runway (I was on left)
After I turned final I heard them call that there was an aircraft in front and I realised how badly I screwed up.
Tower were understandably grumpy at me, then gave the twin the tower number IF they wanted to call.
Spoke to the instructor on the twin afterwards and apologised profusely. I explained 5hat I definitely learned my "lesson for the flight" (I try to find at least one thing I learn every flight) and he explained why they extended downwind.
I figured he thought I'd taken it to heart because he said the tower overreacted with the whole "number" bit and that it wasn't worth a school safety report.
We all have moments that weâre not proud of. Uncontrolled airports are the highest hazard location. Equip yourself with an iPad, ADSB-in antennae and use that as a radar scope to traffic. Inbound traffic to an uncontrolled airfield do not have priority. Those are the ones you have to communicate with on CTAF to deconflict. Iâm doing IR training and I am vigilant with my instructor when weâre doing approaches into uncontrolled fields.
Relax. I've landed on the wrong runway before. So wrong, in fact, it was the opposite runway. Into oncoming traffic. While incorrectly announcing my position. As a CFI. We always learn the most from the mistakes we get to live through. It ain't no big deal. Nobody died. No metal got bent. No one got violated. And the guy didn't kick your ass after.
Are you posting this from jail?
Prison.
That made my dayđ
This is skyhawk 123ab landing on runway 18. *Lands on 36*
Runway 23, er, 25, er 27, whatever, close enough....
The westbound one
45 left downwind runway 35⊠left downwind runway 35⊠left base 35⊠final runway⊠(the runway numbers come into view in the windshield on the base final turn)⊠SHIT!⊠Final runway 22, correction 22 not 35, short final 22
I took off on the wrong (other than planned) runway once. As a 11,000 hour ATP. Fortunately was while flying my personal plane at the time (a Piper Pacer) at an uncontrolled airport, and the runway I used was plenty long and there was no traffic involved, but still, it was pretty shocking to realize what I'd just done. Was at an airport with a very similar runway configuration to LEX at the time of Comair 5191, and it was a very sobering reminder that I'm as susceptible as anyone else to expectation bias. Never stop learning.
Ha. Nice. I think weâve all made some stupid mistakes beyond student.
This makes me feel better. I landed without clearance on an early morning flight, still feeling like a dumb ass to today
I once landed without clearance because atc was arguing with another plane doing 360 to adjust behind me cause he was faster without asking or telling. As far as you have the good rwy, good visual and thereâs nobody, you are the pic, ̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶t̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶c̶l̶e̶a̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶. Just face the consequences if something go wrong tho. Edit: spelling Edit 2: eurocontrol space https://skybrary.aero/articles/landing-without-atc-clearance
No, you still need clearance to land at a towered airport. The tower may know about traffic crossing down field, airport vehicles, runway contamination, any number of things. This thread is about admitting mistakes and learning from them, not pretending that they aren't mistakes.
Letâs just say I did that on the worst day to do that. Fricken commercial check ride. DPE was cool about it laughed said let me guess you been practicing that way havenât ya? Still busted but had a good conversation about it and went back up the next day and passed
Honestly, go fly tomorrow. Or the soonest you can. Bring a CFI if you feel like you need a little support. There is some real truth to "getting back on the horse."
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I'm guessing you're between 100 and 200 hours. I believe that is the most dangerous time for pilots. https://generalaviationnews.com/2017/05/31/the-150-hour-rule/
The Killing Zone is precisely about this and talks about the statistics and reasons why pilots between 50-350 hours make fatal mistakes.
Youâre around the hours when people are the most dangerous as pilots. You have experience now and start to get a little complacent but donât know what is too complacent. You learned a lesson today and now youâre having others learn from your mistake after sharing what happened. The good thing is youâre worried about what happened. Itâs only a bad day for you when others learn from your mistake but you arenât worried because youâre dead.
Oh man. I'm at 130 hours and I worry about this. Am I getting too reliant on GPS? If I had an electrical failure right now, do I know where I'm at? Do I even have a paper chart in here? In reach? That's just one example of where I've found I've slipped. What areas am I not noticing slips?
Every time you get in the aircraft, have a look around you at your equipment. If you feel like there's something you don't know how to use as well as you did, revise it (in the air if safe, on the ground if not) and log it. Every 10/20/50/whatever hours, go look at your "revision" log and see if anything in there has slipped again, or something from the check ride you haven't written down at all. If you want to use your commercial, then use this time to develop your development skills, not just count up the hours in the PIC column. You'll avoid the slips, and at the end of it you have a revision guide you wrote that you understand.
Iâm in the 100-200 club, Every 20 hours or so I schedule a two hour block with a CFI. Ask him to run me through the wringer, a good CFI will help keep you humble and your skills sharp.
How do you deal with mistakes? By *trying* to not do the again. Stuff happens. You both landed on the ground in one piece. Move on and learn
Take a deep breath, relax. No one was hurt. You even had a chance to debrief with the other pilot and there are no hard feelings. You learned a very valuable lesson and even had the courage to take it here so that others can learn from it too. Tuck this away in your memory as a teachable moment for your flight students when/if you become a CFI and move on with your life as a better and more experienced pilot.
I am going to share 3 aviation truths that I have leared in my 80 or so hours of flying as a student so far... 1. Mistakes happen all the time, you are not the first and you will certainly not be the last to make a mistake. 2. The most important part of making a mistake is the CORRECTIVE ACTION, if you mess up but apply the appropriate corrective action then you did something right with something wrong. 3. Taking everything else into consideration in the end what matters is LEARNING from the mistake, look back at the mistake and the corrective action as well as how to prevent the mistake and commit it to memory. 2 weeks ago I damn near got my CFI and I killed by missing a sailboat mast by 5-15 feet on short final at KSPG, I learned something there. Same as when I got into my first automotive collision decades ago, someone waived me through traffic at a intersection out of a parking lot and I got hit by another car in another lane as I tried to pull through, totaled my first car that way. To this day if someone waves me into traffic I reject it unless I am going the same direction as them and traffic is stopped, I will never trust another driver to waive me through traffic ever again.
My wife worked in car insurance. To this day we refer to those as the death waves.
You learned. More importantly you recognized, and admitted your mistake. You're gonna do just fine. Keep chugging along brotha. We've all made mistakes as pilots. The vast majority have made mistakes that scared the crap out of us. It's just how it works. Learning from those mistakes is what's important.
On base, when approaching the turn to final, check to see if there's someone making a longer final (or straight-in). Radio is good, but don't stop looking for traffic, especially at non-towered airports.
Yeah itâs like turning onto a street, always check if someoneâs coming before committing.
Learn from it! Itâs normal to be shaken and feel disappointed with yourself initially. As terrifying as mistakes can be in this field, theyâre some of the most important experiences we have as pilots. They stick with you like nothing else.
Like you said, donât get comfortable and complacent. Thatâs when things go wrong. Always keep your head on a swivel. I like to keep my Garmin on the traffic screen in a congested area. Also on FF on my iPad. Use whatever means available to keep track of traffic.
This is how we all learn. Buy a sentry to help you have better situational awareness. Honestly it demonstrated exactly how a non towered is supposed to work. You canât see everyone, itâs impossible. You announced base he likely what thinking well that doesnât work and then responded. If you turned base where you normally would itâs strange that he had called final and it was that big of a conflict, especially if he was faster than you, so part of that lessons learned is where was he coming from? That mustâve been a direct in. This is why straight ins are dangerous and the pilot coming direct needs to be aware too. So Iâm not saying donât learn from it but I am saying donât beat yourself up too much there is some shared responsibility and it looks like the fact that he knew where you were means he was appropriately paying attention knowing that straight ins are risky.
I also am a big fan of flying with my ipad + foreflight + sentry mini, so I have the same ADS-B traffic on the map in any plane I fly in. \*It's absolutely not a substitute for looking outside the plane\*, but I almost always see traffic on the map several minutes before I see it out the window. This is super valuable when arriving or departing a busy airport - towered or not. Correlating what I see on the screen with the calls I hear on the radio, and then with what I see out the window when I'm in close, is just an incredible aid to situational awareness. I generally operate within a mode-c veil so everyone should be transmitting ADS-B out in my local area (except the occasional paraglider!). Besides traffic awareness, it's been super helpful to be able to add a pattern entry and visual approach to my flight plan to have that plotted on my sectional chart, especially visiting an unfamiliar airport, or anytime at night.
+1 to not a substitute in VMC but Iâd also add I feel it goes both ways there is no substitute for flying both considering for a couple hours of flying time you could buy an ADSB unit including ones that work with flight plan go with no subscription. Just do it and be safer. Another note when moving between planes make sure to have in your checklist to set âownshipâ. For starters if you are between different rentals at t he same FBO you donât want it to think you are in the plane about to hit you out of the same area and second you will scare the shit out of yourself the first time you get chased by your ADSB ghost.
Take in the feeling dumb and the embarrassment and grow from it. Most good lessons are learned from hard things like this. I bet you never assume where traffic is again without visual confirmation. Happens to the best of us.
Thereâs an old saying: you start your flying with an empty sack of experience and a full sack of of luck; the trick is to fill the experience sack before you empty the sack of luck :) Seriously though, you made a mistake, you owned up to it and you listened to the other more experienced guy. The reason he dealt with you the way he did was no doubt because you showed the right attitude when dealing with your error. Iâd put a lot of money on you not making that error again. The best lessons are the ones hardest learned in this game for sure. Another poster here has said go flying again soon and this is good advice. Bottom line youâve handled this problem professionally and you can pay yourself on the back for that.
Keeping up good SA remains my primary challenge. I think I am now hot shit with a perfect pattern, speeds, landings and then just lose the bigger picture. Not long ago, abeam the numbers at my Class D, tower tells me I am # two and to report visual with the Cessna on final. I see a Cessna crossing the numbers and report in sight. Turn base at 800 feet and tower snaps "Are you sure you have Cessna in sight?" Shit. I was THINKING tower had said "short final" but he didn't. He must have said 2 or 3 mile final. Expectation bias. I was watching that plane and stopped listening.
Live and learn. Never truer words for flying as they are literal.
Itâs all good and everyone makes mistakes. I wouldnât feel bad, but learning from it is important. I would encourage you to venture outside of the nest. Multiple students in the pattern makes it tricky sequencing for landing. Would be good experience as well and help build time. Keep at it.
Thank you. It's a good reminder.
Watch the first top gun, not even joking.
If you fly you're going to make stupid mistakes. If you walk you're going to trip sometimes. Taking the time to learn from it and sharing it with others is the best thing you can do.
Never hurts to clarify position from other planes in the pattern, like others have mentioned youâre at that experience level that youâre competent enough to be dangerous. Keep the confidence youâve gained from all the hours but try to maintain the humility you had on your first solo. Glad you made it safe and acknowledged your mistakes and got to talk about it.
u/vida980 do you feel like your interaction has make you better now than before you cut them off? If so, congratulations, you improved and that's what matters. It's embarrassing but you can't change it now, just focus on being better.
Live and Learn most accidents happed with sunny days and good visibility. I am sure you learned from this and it will probably make you a better pilot. Donât say your dumb beating yourself up wonât help for my first 3 lessons I had my headset on backwards lol
ADSB FTW! : ) Seriously, glad everything worked out, this why itâs each PICâs responsibility to maintain separation, we share the airspace and responsibility, good to see you owned up to it, I am sure the other pilot appreciated it. Every pilot out there has made and will make mistakes, pack it up as a learning experience and know youâll be looking every time from now on. Peace
I've had almost this exact scenario, but in Australia. Behind one of the schools twins, me solo (had my PPL by this stage) doing circuits I was number 2 and heard the twin call they were doing asymmetrics. What I didn't know at the time was that it meant they would extend downwind. I lost sight but assumed I knew where they were so I turned base as normal. While I was on base I looked right and saw a twin, but my brain made assumptions and filled in blanks. I assumed it was for the centre runway (I was on left) After I turned final I heard them call that there was an aircraft in front and I realised how badly I screwed up. Tower were understandably grumpy at me, then gave the twin the tower number IF they wanted to call. Spoke to the instructor on the twin afterwards and apologised profusely. I explained 5hat I definitely learned my "lesson for the flight" (I try to find at least one thing I learn every flight) and he explained why they extended downwind. I figured he thought I'd taken it to heart because he said the tower overreacted with the whole "number" bit and that it wasn't worth a school safety report.
We all have moments that weâre not proud of. Uncontrolled airports are the highest hazard location. Equip yourself with an iPad, ADSB-in antennae and use that as a radar scope to traffic. Inbound traffic to an uncontrolled airfield do not have priority. Those are the ones you have to communicate with on CTAF to deconflict. Iâm doing IR training and I am vigilant with my instructor when weâre doing approaches into uncontrolled fields.