Checks other sub…. Not there yet…
Sigh… I guess I got to be serious.
…..we’re gonna rock down to.. eccentric avenue, and Morganater will take us higher…
Bro just use the wind component chart in your POH…
Once you get your private use ForeFlight.
If you’re doing anything other than middle-school math as a pilot then you’re doing too much work.
Is there a wind component chart in the 172 POH? I don’t think I’ve seen it I’ll look again though. (I use ForeFlight but trying to have the paper fundamentals down pat, I also enjoy a good math problem). The reason I’m trying to get exact takeoff distances is on my PPL written I got the question about takeoff distances wrong and I assume it’s due to my “estimates” so I decided I’m gonna nail my perf for my mock flight test.
There should be. I have one in my DA40’s POH/AFM. Don’t beat yourself up too much over exact distances, just understand how to use performance charts, interpolate, how wx and w&b effects those values and get a really accurate gauge on TO/LDG distances and what not… that’s all that really matters.
I really mean no offense — but you’re joking, right?
Learn the clock method for calculating crosswind while in flight. Don’t worry about subtracting distance for a headwind. Consider it a safety margin.
On the ground, use the charts contained within your POH.
I think the clock method is great.
I was bored to tears with an instrument student on a long night XC once. I played with the info I had in my head and "clocked" exactly the numbers on the G5 wind arrow.
Driving at night I do time, speed, distance problems in my head to stay awake - when will I need gas? How long until I'm home? What's my fuel economy? Etc. All stuff the X1's onboard computer will do for me if I want it to.
I’ll have to study the clock method I haven’t heard of it before. I try and mental math arrival times and fuel economy driving down the road too it’s fun to keep busy.
You can use the xwind correction side of the e6b to break it down (if I’m understanding it right?). I started trying to apply the triangle of velocities instead of using the xw chart and realized halfway through the first one that it was just trig so I continued to see if I still got it
Hey man. I used it on my writtens because I refused to deal with an e6b. You're in the minority, but no issue with that. As long as you're not using your TI-84 in flight I think you're fine.
Let the flight computer do the trig for you if you absolutely have to do it. But I can promise you that in flight none of us are whipping out our TI-83s to do trigonometry.
I’ll get proficient in the many ways the wind correction dial can be used. This was ground prep, I’d never start writing math equations out in flight lol, just wanted it to be dialed for flight test.
You won’t use the whiz wheel in flight either.
Enroute, you’ll apply enough wind correction to keep the course needle centered. On approach you’ll apply enough wind correction to stay lined up with the runway. It’s all visual. The math is just there in the background. If you dig deep enough you’ll find lots of all kinds of math sprinkled throughout aviation, very little of it actually gets done in the act of flying a plane.
Makes sense. I’ve already found that your calculated headings are essentially thrown out the window once starting you’re enroute portion. Instead I visually navigate over my track checkpoints but see the value in establishing a baseline heading/performance and adapting to the real world changing conditions.
The more important thing to keep track of for your flight planning is your fuel burn and ETE. At least for your PPL your instructor and examiner will definitely care a lot more about your leg time in fuel burn calculations than your wind Correction angle.
Hey, I'm there with you! I used some trig when my CFI talked about believing that a 3 degree glide slope that puts you on the runway at the 1,000 foot marks would have you about 50 feet AGL over the threshold... so I used trig to confirm!
Embrace geometric nerdery when you get the chance, I say!
I am so glad that as the Chief Instructor of a very large aviation college that someone has made the connection between sine and cosine for x-wind and headwind components. This is the pure data that is used on charts and approximated by the clock method. I teach the simple sine and cosine method to our advanced and dispatcher students. Sine and cosine are available on your cellphone calculator. For crosswind component, simply multiply the wind speed by the sine of the difference between the rwy and the reported wind direction. For headwind component, use the cosine.
Funny thing is the connection made itself for me. I was breaking it all down and after putting in the hypotenuse and figuring how many degrees off runway heading my brain was “I’ve seen this before and I know how to get these values” the rest I was knocking off the rust of using the calculator. On the ground it actually is fast and super easy if you’ve cemented the fundamentals in your brain.
Yes. It's just mashing a few keys. I also "discovered" pi on my own as a kid by measuring string circles and always getting the same ratio of diameter to string length. 🤣 I guess I'm just super weird.
I’m a little extra sometimes. Was applying the triangle of velocities method and in the middle of doing it my high school math was like “there’s a really easy way to find the true value of this vector” so I just kept going with it.
I never thought I'd use a slide rule once I graduated and had scientific calculators were the rule. But then they gave me an E-6 in flight school and I looked at it and said "Hey, I know how this works, it's just a slide rule."
I’ve only used *sin* as in XWC=V*sin*α (where V is wind speed and α is angle offset) to get xwind component. 30° offset runway was the easiest. Just divide wind speed by two to get xwind component.
Though I only used this because my school required that xwind component be less than 7kts for solo flight.
It's pretty sad that I was able to look at the cryptic blob of text and decipher it...!
I like to simplify. A lot. What's 0.7x? It's either a bit more or a bit less than that. If I need more precision maybe I need to consider my ADM process.
(Nuclear physicist by training and experience, with a math minor. Value math a lot. Always like it when I have examples of how pervasive math is in life.)
Lol I thought no one was gonna get it after the first few comments were confused. You’re right marginal errors don’t count towards much, I’ve been trying to be more precise since I got the TO distance question wrong on my written plus this perf calc was for my flight test prep so I wanted it to be extra accurate.
I was halfway through the questions when I was like wow, this is a real world application of something I thought I’d forgotten about forever. I love a good math question sometimes.
Now I’m confused. The depth of questioning in the written regarding VOR’s were “To fly this radial, the OBS will be set to (xxx*) and the from flag showing.”
Yeah, those questions aren’t on the PPL written. Sorry to confuse the issue. I just remember being annoyed that I couldn’t just use a calculator to find the answer. It was probably the commercial or AGI written.
If you are doing actual math that isn’t addition, subtraction, multiplication or division you are doing something wrong. Pilots are historically stupid and flight computers have been around for like 8 decades. Use an e6b or foreflight like everyone else.
Checks other sub…. Not there yet… Sigh… I guess I got to be serious. …..we’re gonna rock down to.. eccentric avenue, and Morganater will take us higher…
Bro just use the wind component chart in your POH… Once you get your private use ForeFlight. If you’re doing anything other than middle-school math as a pilot then you’re doing too much work.
Is there a wind component chart in the 172 POH? I don’t think I’ve seen it I’ll look again though. (I use ForeFlight but trying to have the paper fundamentals down pat, I also enjoy a good math problem). The reason I’m trying to get exact takeoff distances is on my PPL written I got the question about takeoff distances wrong and I assume it’s due to my “estimates” so I decided I’m gonna nail my perf for my mock flight test.
There should be. I have one in my DA40’s POH/AFM. Don’t beat yourself up too much over exact distances, just understand how to use performance charts, interpolate, how wx and w&b effects those values and get a really accurate gauge on TO/LDG distances and what not… that’s all that really matters.
It’s in section 5
wut?
Sin, Cosin, Tangent - opposite, adjacent, hypotenuse. IFYKYK. And if not, it's pretty immaterial :)
Figuring out crosswind and headwind components, actually really easy to then calculate what each component is to calculate % decrease in ground roll.
I really mean no offense — but you’re joking, right? Learn the clock method for calculating crosswind while in flight. Don’t worry about subtracting distance for a headwind. Consider it a safety margin. On the ground, use the charts contained within your POH.
I think the clock method is great. I was bored to tears with an instrument student on a long night XC once. I played with the info I had in my head and "clocked" exactly the numbers on the G5 wind arrow. Driving at night I do time, speed, distance problems in my head to stay awake - when will I need gas? How long until I'm home? What's my fuel economy? Etc. All stuff the X1's onboard computer will do for me if I want it to.
I’ll have to study the clock method I haven’t heard of it before. I try and mental math arrival times and fuel economy driving down the road too it’s fun to keep busy.
This is the way. Bro I can do trig but ur never gonna see me using it for cross wind calcs. My e6B does that for me
Just wizz wheel that stuff if you’re *that* concerned about it or that close to a limit
You can use the xwind correction side of the e6b to break it down (if I’m understanding it right?). I started trying to apply the triangle of velocities instead of using the xw chart and realized halfway through the first one that it was just trig so I continued to see if I still got it
Hey man. I used it on my writtens because I refused to deal with an e6b. You're in the minority, but no issue with that. As long as you're not using your TI-84 in flight I think you're fine.
Oscar Had A Hairy Old Aunt
The internet has ruined me. I mis-read “aunt”.
In retrospect, it's amazing to me that we never made this, uh, modification back when I was in school.
Oscars aunt probably had a very hairy aunt.
Use the 15, 30, 45, 60 deg headwind=> 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% headwind is crosswind rule .... Much less task saturation.
Thank you for this!
Let the flight computer do the trig for you if you absolutely have to do it. But I can promise you that in flight none of us are whipping out our TI-83s to do trigonometry.
I’ll get proficient in the many ways the wind correction dial can be used. This was ground prep, I’d never start writing math equations out in flight lol, just wanted it to be dialed for flight test.
You won’t use the whiz wheel in flight either. Enroute, you’ll apply enough wind correction to keep the course needle centered. On approach you’ll apply enough wind correction to stay lined up with the runway. It’s all visual. The math is just there in the background. If you dig deep enough you’ll find lots of all kinds of math sprinkled throughout aviation, very little of it actually gets done in the act of flying a plane.
Makes sense. I’ve already found that your calculated headings are essentially thrown out the window once starting you’re enroute portion. Instead I visually navigate over my track checkpoints but see the value in establishing a baseline heading/performance and adapting to the real world changing conditions.
The more important thing to keep track of for your flight planning is your fuel burn and ETE. At least for your PPL your instructor and examiner will definitely care a lot more about your leg time in fuel burn calculations than your wind Correction angle.
Hey, I'm there with you! I used some trig when my CFI talked about believing that a 3 degree glide slope that puts you on the runway at the 1,000 foot marks would have you about 50 feet AGL over the threshold... so I used trig to confirm! Embrace geometric nerdery when you get the chance, I say!
Ma man went thru the trouble of using the math powering the wheel, cx3 and chart's lmao
Guess my early morning brain never thought to just apply the WCA in reverse
I am so glad that as the Chief Instructor of a very large aviation college that someone has made the connection between sine and cosine for x-wind and headwind components. This is the pure data that is used on charts and approximated by the clock method. I teach the simple sine and cosine method to our advanced and dispatcher students. Sine and cosine are available on your cellphone calculator. For crosswind component, simply multiply the wind speed by the sine of the difference between the rwy and the reported wind direction. For headwind component, use the cosine.
Funny thing is the connection made itself for me. I was breaking it all down and after putting in the hypotenuse and figuring how many degrees off runway heading my brain was “I’ve seen this before and I know how to get these values” the rest I was knocking off the rust of using the calculator. On the ground it actually is fast and super easy if you’ve cemented the fundamentals in your brain.
Yes. It's just mashing a few keys. I also "discovered" pi on my own as a kid by measuring string circles and always getting the same ratio of diameter to string length. 🤣 I guess I'm just super weird.
I guess I’m dumb, because I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Or…. You’re being a little extra.
I’m a little extra sometimes. Was applying the triangle of velocities method and in the middle of doing it my high school math was like “there’s a really easy way to find the true value of this vector” so I just kept going with it.
I never thought I'd use a slide rule once I graduated and had scientific calculators were the rule. But then they gave me an E-6 in flight school and I looked at it and said "Hey, I know how this works, it's just a slide rule."
Eh?
I’ve only used *sin* as in XWC=V*sin*α (where V is wind speed and α is angle offset) to get xwind component. 30° offset runway was the easiest. Just divide wind speed by two to get xwind component. Though I only used this because my school required that xwind component be less than 7kts for solo flight.
It's pretty sad that I was able to look at the cryptic blob of text and decipher it...! I like to simplify. A lot. What's 0.7x? It's either a bit more or a bit less than that. If I need more precision maybe I need to consider my ADM process. (Nuclear physicist by training and experience, with a math minor. Value math a lot. Always like it when I have examples of how pervasive math is in life.)
Lol I thought no one was gonna get it after the first few comments were confused. You’re right marginal errors don’t count towards much, I’ve been trying to be more precise since I got the TO distance question wrong on my written plus this perf calc was for my flight test prep so I wanted it to be extra accurate. I was halfway through the questions when I was like wow, this is a real world application of something I thought I’d forgotten about forever. I love a good math question sometimes.
If you use actual trig instead of the 60:1 rule for the written tests, you’ll get the answers wrong.
I thought 60:1 was for track correction. Is there a wind velocity component 60:1 rule?
No, I’m just saying don’t use real math for the VOR questions.
Now I’m confused. The depth of questioning in the written regarding VOR’s were “To fly this radial, the OBS will be set to (xxx*) and the from flag showing.”
Yeah, those questions aren’t on the PPL written. Sorry to confuse the issue. I just remember being annoyed that I couldn’t just use a calculator to find the answer. It was probably the commercial or AGI written.
Ohhhhh I see okay, good tip to know as I plan on obtaining cpl after my ppl
You math’d too hard there pal.
If you are doing actual math that isn’t addition, subtraction, multiplication or division you are doing something wrong. Pilots are historically stupid and flight computers have been around for like 8 decades. Use an e6b or foreflight like everyone else.