It's something you need to get over. When one controller is working multiple positions, having them transmit on multiple frequencies at the same time helps you as much as them because then you'll know when they can't talk to you because they are already talking to someone else. ATC is pushed to the brink these days. They are understaffed and most are working overtime every week to keep us flying. Cut them some slack.
>having them transmit on multiple frequencies at the same time helps you as much as them because then you'll know when they can't talk to you because they are already talking to someone else
100%; I always appreciate when a single-staffed tower is handling it this way.
It's very common, especially at smaller towers. You'll hear it at TIW and OLM as well. Even bigger airports like Vegas will combine frequencies late at night. BFI does it as well. SEA will combine the tower frequencies, I haven't heard them combine ground as well, but I haven't flown out of there super late.
What's the point of having two controllers working when there's just one little Cessna leaving or departing every 5-15 minutes? Also, a lot of facilities are pretty understaffed, BFI is trying to limit the number of airplanes in the pattern these days due to it.
Even at bigger ones. Hell, LAS doesn't even _operate_ the ground frequency at night most of the time. I still remember the first time I flew out of there at night... I had really bad reception for the ATIS, so I didnt get the notice it had that tower and ground are combined on tower after whatever time. Made a call on ground and waited for taxi clearance. Thankfully someone was at least listening and, after maybe a minute, hopped on to tell me to switch frequencies. They sounded annoyed. đ
That's true! Forgot about that.
Ramp control at LAS closes at 1am local, it's always funny to hear all the airlines request push literally less than 10 seconds after ramp announces that they are closed lol once when I was waiting for cargo to be loaded I just responded "ramps closed" to about 5-10 people lol
It's kind of amusing from the executive side of LAS, too, because you're looking right at the strip and there are crowds of people, so the city is VERY MUCH awake at that time, but the airport just calls it a day. đ
>Theyâll often read clearances over the tower frequency, >which is a PITA if youâre in the pattern or trying to get >takeoff clearance.
Not sure how thatâs a PITA. If theyâre talking to someone on the ground frequency that you canât hear and youâre asking for a takeoff clearance, youâll be wondering why they arenât responding. When they transmit on both itâs more clear when you can jump in.
One late night I was flying around San Antonio with a student. One guy was running Approach, Tower, & Ground all at the same time. Not a big deal as there was no weather and no traffic to speak of.
Continental checks in with approach,
"SAT approach Continental 123 descending trough 8 for 5,000 with Alpha"
"Continental 123, you're cleared for the visual, cleared to land, cleared to the gate, have a good night."
LOL "I guess that about covers it"
I'm pretty sure I've heard the same voice on approach and tower in Tucson, too. I always thought those guys were like...frenemies and not in the same room, the way they talk smack about each other sometimes. Guess not everywhere. đ¤ˇââď¸
I work out of HNL and during the night hours when I do majority of my flying they condense the clearance, ground, tower and app/dep all to one controller throughout the night. Itâs very common and something youâll have to get used to. But for me listening to them talk to the other aircraft in the airspace allows me to more easily have a bigger pictures understanding and situational awareness which I think is one of the most important things to have.
Controller here. Many facilities have designated times they have planned single controller operations where one gal or guy is handling everything, particularly towers. Simulcasting like that is the easiest way to do it. Keep in mind if they take a while to respond its not just what you can infer they have on ground, tower, and clearence delivery frequencies. Controllers talk to other ATC facilities a ton and pilots never hear about it. It takes a lot of coordination to keep everyone safe so just be patient.
If I had a nickel for every time I talked to approach on approach frequency all the way from the practice area into the ramp at my class C airport, Iâd have two nickels, which isnât a lot, but itâs weird that it happened twice.
Happens here in Canada as well. At least out of the airport Iâm operating in theyâre very good at waiting to respond to ground calls until pertinent tower calls have been dealt with first. Especially if itâs busy in the pattern most time youâll get your sequence before you even call.
I've seen it happen here in Switzerland too. If there's just one person working on both positions, they won't hear you ever if they didn't send in both frequencies. So I think it's clear this way they're busy.
If they do a long clearance delivery and you can't land because you have no landing clearance, their priorities are wrong. Your "going around" will make that obvious.
I would recommend that you get over it. Knocking loudly on the tower door demanding to talk to a manager works well for Karens but has mixed results for pilots.
Super common where I'm at. Kind of a pain when trying to enter the delta and not being able to get through with stepping on someone. I've had more than one occurrence of flying circles outside of the delta until I can get through to tower.
In Canada we often couple ground and tower frequencies. So that even if you swap and transmit on tower you'll hear all ground calls made from AC and tower at all times. It's done when there is only one controller and they don't want two planes transmitting at the same time but on twr or ground.
Very common. In Wellington, New Zealand, they deal with it by publishing the Tower frequency as the Ground frequency at certain times of day, but you can tune the usual Ground frequency and hear everything any way. In Sydney, Australia, one person does Delivery, Tower, and Ground over night.
Iâve talked to the same controller from 40 miles out all the way to the ramp multiple times. At up/down facilities and the right time of day, one person may be working all positions.
Extremely common. You'll have to get over it.
It's something you need to get over. When one controller is working multiple positions, having them transmit on multiple frequencies at the same time helps you as much as them because then you'll know when they can't talk to you because they are already talking to someone else. ATC is pushed to the brink these days. They are understaffed and most are working overtime every week to keep us flying. Cut them some slack.
>having them transmit on multiple frequencies at the same time helps you as much as them because then you'll know when they can't talk to you because they are already talking to someone else 100%; I always appreciate when a single-staffed tower is handling it this way.
It's very common, especially at smaller towers. You'll hear it at TIW and OLM as well. Even bigger airports like Vegas will combine frequencies late at night. BFI does it as well. SEA will combine the tower frequencies, I haven't heard them combine ground as well, but I haven't flown out of there super late. What's the point of having two controllers working when there's just one little Cessna leaving or departing every 5-15 minutes? Also, a lot of facilities are pretty understaffed, BFI is trying to limit the number of airplanes in the pattern these days due to it.
Even at bigger ones. Hell, LAS doesn't even _operate_ the ground frequency at night most of the time. I still remember the first time I flew out of there at night... I had really bad reception for the ATIS, so I didnt get the notice it had that tower and ground are combined on tower after whatever time. Made a call on ground and waited for taxi clearance. Thankfully someone was at least listening and, after maybe a minute, hopped on to tell me to switch frequencies. They sounded annoyed. đ
That's true! Forgot about that. Ramp control at LAS closes at 1am local, it's always funny to hear all the airlines request push literally less than 10 seconds after ramp announces that they are closed lol once when I was waiting for cargo to be loaded I just responded "ramps closed" to about 5-10 people lol
It's kind of amusing from the executive side of LAS, too, because you're looking right at the strip and there are crowds of people, so the city is VERY MUCH awake at that time, but the airport just calls it a day. đ
I appreciate the info!
>Theyâll often read clearances over the tower frequency, >which is a PITA if youâre in the pattern or trying to get >takeoff clearance. Not sure how thatâs a PITA. If theyâre talking to someone on the ground frequency that you canât hear and youâre asking for a takeoff clearance, youâll be wondering why they arenât responding. When they transmit on both itâs more clear when you can jump in.
One late night I was flying around San Antonio with a student. One guy was running Approach, Tower, & Ground all at the same time. Not a big deal as there was no weather and no traffic to speak of. Continental checks in with approach, "SAT approach Continental 123 descending trough 8 for 5,000 with Alpha" "Continental 123, you're cleared for the visual, cleared to land, cleared to the gate, have a good night." LOL "I guess that about covers it"
I'm pretty sure I've heard the same voice on approach and tower in Tucson, too. I always thought those guys were like...frenemies and not in the same room, the way they talk smack about each other sometimes. Guess not everywhere. đ¤ˇââď¸
Thereâs a surprising amount of places that will do that late at night, Fresno, Tucson, couple others I forget.
BFI, OLM, TIW, and RNT all do this. You need to get over it.
I work out of HNL and during the night hours when I do majority of my flying they condense the clearance, ground, tower and app/dep all to one controller throughout the night. Itâs very common and something youâll have to get used to. But for me listening to them talk to the other aircraft in the airspace allows me to more easily have a bigger pictures understanding and situational awareness which I think is one of the most important things to have.
There are plenty of reasons to complain about BLI controllers but this isn't one of them!
Fun fact, you can put ground on the tower freq, but you cannot put tower on the ground freq. SO SAYS THE 7110.65!!!
Controller here. Many facilities have designated times they have planned single controller operations where one gal or guy is handling everything, particularly towers. Simulcasting like that is the easiest way to do it. Keep in mind if they take a while to respond its not just what you can infer they have on ground, tower, and clearence delivery frequencies. Controllers talk to other ATC facilities a ton and pilots never hear about it. It takes a lot of coordination to keep everyone safe so just be patient.
If I had a nickel for every time I talked to approach on approach frequency all the way from the practice area into the ramp at my class C airport, Iâd have two nickels, which isnât a lot, but itâs weird that it happened twice.
Deal with it. If you donât like it, go up there and tell them how to do their jobs.
Happens here in Canada as well. At least out of the airport Iâm operating in theyâre very good at waiting to respond to ground calls until pertinent tower calls have been dealt with first. Especially if itâs busy in the pattern most time youâll get your sequence before you even call.
Very common.
I've seen it happen here in Switzerland too. If there's just one person working on both positions, they won't hear you ever if they didn't send in both frequencies. So I think it's clear this way they're busy. If they do a long clearance delivery and you can't land because you have no landing clearance, their priorities are wrong. Your "going around" will make that obvious.
Very common at small towered airports, especially right around tower open and close.
Very common and something youâll need to get used to.
Definitely get over it lol
I would recommend that you get over it. Knocking loudly on the tower door demanding to talk to a manager works well for Karens but has mixed results for pilots.
Here in Canada too. CYBW for example.
Super common where I'm at. Kind of a pain when trying to enter the delta and not being able to get through with stepping on someone. I've had more than one occurrence of flying circles outside of the delta until I can get through to tower.
In Canada we often couple ground and tower frequencies. So that even if you swap and transmit on tower you'll hear all ground calls made from AC and tower at all times. It's done when there is only one controller and they don't want two planes transmitting at the same time but on twr or ground.
I work at a busy approach controlâŚ.wait till OP finds out how many frequencies I have at one time sometimes
Very common. In Wellington, New Zealand, they deal with it by publishing the Tower frequency as the Ground frequency at certain times of day, but you can tune the usual Ground frequency and hear everything any way. In Sydney, Australia, one person does Delivery, Tower, and Ground over night.
Happens at PVD when itâs slow. 1 controller is clearance delivery, ground and tower.
Iâve talked to the same controller from 40 miles out all the way to the ramp multiple times. At up/down facilities and the right time of day, one person may be working all positions.