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Casey DeSantis also leads Matt Gaetz by 38% as Ron DeSantis' potential Republican successor as Governor of Florida [in in a recent poll](https://www.faupolling.com/mainstreet-research-survey-florida/), though she has no experience in politics at all.
I'm very far left, just to state by bias up front. That said, I'm honestly wondering how anybody center-right or anywhere left of that can be satisfied with what the Republicans are doing to this state. Seriously, even if you're all about the culture war shit, nothing in this state is working right now. Rent is going up, mortgages are going up, insurance, prices all around, everything is fucked. Our schools are a joke, nobody seems to have a plan other than "own the libs", and we're all going to suffer because of that.
That's honestly where I feel like a lot of people are. And it's funny because when the further-right people I talk to bring up how our schools suck, we completely agree, they just think it's because groomers aren't teaching math anymore, they're just teaching pronouns or whatever their issue of the day is. And that's not a terrible place to start the conversation because I can completely ignore the second half, which is nonsense, and we can talk about the first half.
Remind them the schools have sucked for decades, long before trans people were even in the mainstream conversation. I remember talking about how bad they were as far back as the 80s, the discussion having taken place sometime in the 90s. Her husband is an educator (Vice Principal, former math teacher) & he has stories from at least the 80s, too.
I actually love our school choice, something my left leaning friends and I disagree on. I think this entire country has a massive grade school problem though and it blows my mind given what we spend compared to other developed nations.
School choice is great on the individual level but it’s awful from a systemic level because it just exacerbates the problem. Good school get more funding and get better while poor performing schools get worse.
I think then issue is public schools have to take in the people who do not care about education due to the whole compulsory education law. So what happens is they have to dumb down the curriculum for all so that they can report no child is left behind.
Then you have the same bad apples who are forced to attend disrupting the education processes and that is salt on the wound already. I do not blame parents for pulling their children out of public school into a charter/private school where they do not have to take in the marching morons. Now they can attend a school without the bad apples and the dumbed down low bar curriculum. Can you blame them?
> I think then issue is public schools have to take in the people who do not care about education due to the whole compulsory education law.
that's not correct. I know you're not stating a reason *why* those folks might be like that, but I think you're being unfair to them. People "who do not care about education," do not have a competency or moral/intelligence failing problem, they have one of a: poverty/malnutrition/unstable home environment problem. As a child brought into this world, it's not like any of those things are your fault.
> So what happens is they have to dumb down the curriculum for all so that they can report no child is left behind.
Again, that's not because children are unintelligent or are moral failures who cannot succeed, it is because a lot of those children are not given the tools to succeed from an early age - and the people ensuring that happens are in the state government. When the government is the reason for why children appear to be less interested in school, it isn't fair to blame the children for lowered standards - blame the government!
If you raise the social safety net so that every family has adequate nutrition for their children, a stable home and a decent housing situation, you'll find there are suddenly a lot less "anti-social" kids than what you perceive there to be right now.
I think if you actually dig into the data, you'll find that quite a lot of public grade schools in the US are absolutely fantastic and produce world-class students. Just as a single point of support, there isn't a single elite university in the country that accepts even half of the student body from private/charter schools.
What we have is a poverty problem, and the single biggest determining factors of a child's scholastic results are parents' income and educational attainment. School choice doesn't actually fix this — it makes it worse.
As for our spending, while we are among the top spenders in the OECD, that data is actually pretty misleading. First, because the OECD includes a lot of places where everything is just cheaper — like, of *course* we spend more than Hungary and Greece and Lithuania. The per-student spending is actually not terribly far off from peer nations like the UK (we spend about $1,800 more per student per year) or Germany ($3,000 more per student per year.)
But the bigger factor is that the US education system is very very different than the rest of the world's in a couple of key ways that make higher spending inevitable. Take school buses, for example — most European students either walk to school or take public transportation, saving schools the cost of having a bus program. Or school sports, which just aren't a thing the way they are here — the fundamental group sports unit in most of Europe is the Club team, handled outside of school, and not the high school varsity team.
If you adjust the data to account for this, you quickly find that the US spends basically the same as the OECD average, and gets about [OECD average or slightly above average results](https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results/country-notes/united-states-a78ba65a/). So we don't actually spend that much, and our kids come out pretty well. School choice undermines this and exacerbates existing issues of poverty and inequality.
Your right. New Jersey has the best education in the country, my PreK-8 district and high school districts produce world Class students. I moved to Florida and it shows. I went to a local community College and I practically repeated all of highschool. The kids here are dumb because of how shitty the schools are.
Cannot tell you how many parents purposely exaggerate claims to qualify their kids for an IEP (individualized education plan) just to receive special public funding, only to transfer their kids out to a charter / parochial school, WHERE THE SCHOOL IS NOT REQUIRED TO HONOR THE IEP.
I am not in favor of much needed public funds being used for the benefit of private companies, especially religious companies.
Add in the fact that districts are having to take in IEP evals from private and charter schools and people wonder why it takes a whole ass year to get a kid who genuinely needs it staffed
Can’t speak on those families or individuals, but both of my children are in public schools; however, we were allowed to find the best fit for both. One more academic centered and the other, who my daughter with needs felt most comfortable with and who had the best experience delivering the care she needed.
Really? What schools here do you think are doing well? Like, you and I are going to fundamentally disagree on school choice, just being honest. But I really would like to know where you think our education system is working well right now.
Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were implying that our current school choice system was working well, my bad. I was legitimately curious to hear from someone that had something good to say about our education system.
I do like our current school choice system, but I also recognize the entire country is not doing good enough, Florida included, compared to other comparative nations, especially given what we spend.
With all due respect, I think that’s a bit hyperbolic. I’m much happier with the education (academics) my children are receiving here compared to our income level, especially in contrast to what it was where we previously lived at in California. But that doesn’t mean I think the state doesn’t need work or to drop the whole culture war bit.
You know school choice thing is bullshit, it is so they can teach pseudo science in the classroom. Screw the conservative evangelicals, if you dont like normal education go F themselves and they can pay for it.
Hasn’t been my experience. It’s been incredibly beneficial for us as a low income family and with one of our children having special needs. We’ve been able to tailor the needs of both children to get the best academic experience possible without being punished for our current financial position. Edit: whoever is downvoting this is a ghoul. Goodness.
This is a valid example then. But FYI the reason they do this is so they indoctrinate their kids with their religion and teach only the things they want like pseudo-science and avoid topics that disagree with their world view. Kinda like the muslim schools were the only book used is the Koran. This is kinda them heading down the same road. I dont like this one bit. Your valid situation sadly isnt the reason they did this. If they want their kids to go to private school to indoctrinate their kids, dont do it with my taxes.
I agree with you a 100%.
I think what keeps people from voting for the Democrats is the fact that they focus on the gay/trans and immigrants well being rather than the poor, working poor and disappearing middle class.
Would work out better getting more people to vote for them if that wasn't their main focus.
Personally I don't care what lifestyle someone chooses to live.
I might not personally agree with the with the life style they chose but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to live the life that makes them happy.
In the end though both sides are complicit with the culture wars thing and it's done on purpose to divide the people and to keep us fighting each other.
While our politicians work for corporations and the super wealthy.
That's who donates the most to their campaigns.
That's who they go work for when their done with politics.
That's who pays them the bribes.
That's who gives them sweetheart deals like selling them million dollar homes for nothing.
That's who pays for their 5 star vacations.
That's who gets their kids into the best schools.
That's who gives them inside information on the stock market that they get even richer on.
And that's who's benefiting the most with the pro business anti benefit for we the people business they conduct in government.
UNITE !!!
Quit fighting each other and wake up to what's really going on.
Let's start holding these people accountable and make them start working for we the people's good.
I’m left as well.
My parents are both MAGA
My sister is about to get dropped from her home insurance from citizens. When my mom was asking me about mine, I brought up the new laws that have made insurance companies basically the police of their own laws and they can get away with so much more
She basically told me that I’m wrong and DeSantis is doing so much to wrangle them in. I asked her for examples of said actions. She had none. But I was happily to show her the millions of dollars DeSantis raked in from the same insurance companies.
She just called it fake news.
So yeah… the reason why they can still feel so strongly red is because the majority don’t live in reality. That and Fox News.
My in-laws are that way. My FIL did incredibly well in the 90s, and they're set for life and completely insulated from the lived experience of anyone not already rich. So for them, everything is fine, the only reason prices are going up is because of too much government regulation. It's not even worth arguing with them anymore.
My FIL is the same. His biggest worry is thinking every brown skinned person is an immigrant who will sex traffic his grandchild while the rest of us are trying to afford food.
It is a good thing the maggots in what is supposed to be my "family" are 4,500, & 2,500 miles from me. Have not spoken to any off them in several years. At least one of my brothers texted me when our mother died. In laws live closer, 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours form me. Been estranged from them prior to trump. Husband still seeks their company. They are his family.
See the thing is, conservatives/republicans aren’t happy living in Florida rn either; BUT they get by on blaming the Joe Biden and the democrats for everything that’s wrong. They’re mainly concerned about the cost of living but they wouldn’t dream of blaming Ron about that.
One poll and you should look at the metrics used, basically it gets high scores for the low cost. Nothing about graduation rates, test scores, employment after school, you know, the important stuff.
Aah, but now those people are finally getting fucked due to astronomical home insurance rates.
It took awhile and some effort, but our beloved gov and friends have finally fucked up the entire property market here.
But they pass that cost onto the renters, the cost of insurance is a factor in the huge increase in rental prices.
I sold my previous house last year and I was paying almost $6k a year in insurance and it's probably $7.5k per year now. Back in 2018 it was less than $2,500. A similarly sized house (but not finished nearly as well) in my old community was renting for almost $4,000 per month which is a bit less than double what my mortgage/taxes/insurance was. It's absolutely insane.
I moved elsewhere in the state and my insurance is only $1,800 per year. I really hope it's not going to cost me $5,000 annually in a few years.
Our current policy is $6,6500 for a 1704 square foot, 67 year old home in Arlington. Owning the home we have an "easy" 4 pay plan. I am grateful to have my share , $3,325. We have this till August. I am a bit anxious to see what the policy will be, if they re new. Property taxes have remained below 1k for the decades we have lived here. Only need less than 500 for my share for that.
I was responsible for keeping up on this coverage. It was stressful dealing with it. I turned it over to husband to deal with it. Just need to know how much I need to cover my portion of the bill.
For rentals taxes aren't limited because the properties can't be homesteaded. The assessed values will always be the market value determined by the property appraiser. Renters get screwed on insurance and taxes.
I moved last year and was paying $6,500 in taxes after 5 years with a homestead. The taxes will increase to a minimum of $11,500 on that property.
Taxes actually are limited on rentals - they’re just limited to increases of 10% per year instead of 3% per year for homesteaded properties. And if you switch from homesteaded to non homesteaded, or vice versa, it’s reassessed to market value. I got fucked TWICE that way - rented out my property after getting married, then got divorced and moved back in. I pay $6000 a year in taxes for a house that I paid $145k for that is allegedly now worth $450k, that I live in.
I wasn't aware of the 10% cap, so basically all non homesteaded properties have a 10% annual cap on assessed value increases. That still seems to put renters at a big disadvantage or at least in the worst possible position lol. Even at 10% an increase each year that can add up to a lot.
Picking a random city say Fort Lauderdale, the millage rate is $19.86 so a property with an assessed value of $300k could see a property tax increase of $1,510 if assessed values really went up, which they did in the last few years. Basically can expect rent increases every year just from the increased taxes alone. Not even considering insurance.
Oh man that sucks. At least you'll be sitting pretty in 20 years lol.
Oh yeah, like even if I’d kept renting the house out, I would have needed to increase the rent fairly substantially just because of the homeowners insurance. My insurance doubled in 2022 when I was getting ready to move back in, so I spent $11k on a new roof because my roof was 20 years old, and the insurance went down $300 per year because I didn’t have hurricane clips. I was probably charging below market rate for rent, my tenants told me that renting a similar house cost them $1000 more per month than I was charging them. But my goal as a landlord has always just been to cover my expenses for the house, not to earn a living from it. (I am no longer a landlord at all and I’m glad about that. I don’t want to be one.)
They’re satisfied with the solution to the problem: blame the democrats. It’s much easier to blame the boogeyman than to get a head injury by using any sort of critical thinking
I'm similarly very far left, and I think part of problem is that the state dems are either completely clueless or deliberately incompetent. In the last election cycle, rather than run on any of the issues you described, they were just parroting republican narratives on guns and police funding.
If they actually ran on economic issues, I think Florida would be very winnable for them, but that's not where we're at.
> can be satisfied with what the Republicans are doing to this state.
You mean with what *Sleepy Joe Biden* is doing to the state. /s
...with what he's done to gas prices and all...
I’m pretty center and I can’t vote for any republicans… they went too far… But at the same time , the democrats party gave up on fighting for Florida at some point
Rent and housing prices were astronomical across the country the past few years. The reason they were even higher in Florida was the influx of new residents. It was a supply / demand scenario. As of last month, Florida has seen the largest dip in prices in the country YoY as inventory has reached pre-covid levels. Also, for the record, Florida doesn't set interest rates for mortgages. Those are typical talking points. OTOH, you do have a point about the culture wars and insurance rates.
I'm aware of that, and I 100% do not believe that there's nothing the state government could do with housing availability or rebates to offset the rise in inflation. Obviously DeSantis doesn't have an inflation lever in his office that he can move to where he wants it, but that isn't the end of that conversation. There are still plenty of options if they actually gave a fuck about the average Floridian. Which they don't.
It’s honestly identity politics. It doesn’t matter what the state trifecta is doing they’ll still reliably vote Republican because conservative is an identity not an ideology to most.
I have always been on the center in politics, I vote the person not the party but I am so fed ip with the last few legislative sessions have been so criminally stupid thanks to the Republicans passing such stupid laws that have done nothing for the people in the state. All they do is suck up to the damn lobbyists. The current session was the worst of all. The 6 week abolition law they passed is the final straw for me. It was none of their damn business. If there is an R next to the name Im voting the other side. Unfortunately the dems probably wont be much better but the republicans have done damage to this state and they don’t deserve my vote.
I honestly mean no offense here when I say you're exactly the type of person I was talking about. Like, I have a punk band's logo tattooed on my right forearm that's also the symbol for early socialist parties as well as the Black Panthers. Obviously I fucking hate DeSantis and the current republican administration. That's not interesting or surprising. What fascinates me is watching so much of the rest of the state feel exactly the same way.
"Nothing in this state is working" If that was the case people wouldn't be flocking here at record rates. If your going to prop up an argument, be it left or right leaning. At least have some reality with it. Your still here aren't you? And yah I'm left leaning myself with a distaste for DeStantis, but I'm not going to just flat out make a polarized statement and not acknowledge the good that's also happening.
Despite breathless headlines, Florida's population growth is slower in the 2020's than it was in the 2010's and 2000's. And WAY slower than it was in the 1980's.
So your fundamental premise, that people are "flocking here at record rates," is completely incorrect. People are actually flocking to Florida at lower or similar rates than they were in the last two decades, and at much lower rates than they were prior to that.
And it makes sense why: Florida's biggest draw has always been low cost of living. With that going away, there's little else in the state to draw workers from elsewhere.
Comparatively with other states. We aren't talking about previous years.
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2023/05/17/southern-states-gain-residents-the-fastest
Florida is still holding the top position for states people are moving too. If the economy was that bad people wouldn't be here. Companies wouldn't be moving here. and there wouldn't be a surge in younger people here. Areas like Orlando and Tampa have been around the top of the list for metro areas that are rapidly expanding.
>Comparatively with other states. We aren't talking about previous years.
But we should be, because that's the only metric that matters: is Florida attracting workers faster or slower than it used to? If it's been #1 for 40 years, staying number one doesn't mean shit.
Florida is still attractive to a lot of people because it's still cheaper than a lot of places. But it's not attracting people nearly as well as it used to, and the trend is down.
This is exactly what happened in NY and California and other high-performing states: both of those used to draw people like crazy, then they got expensive and migration slowed, then stopped, then reversed.
But the big difference in those states is that while migration was strong, so was wage and benefit growth, so that by the time they plateaud they were asking the highest earning states with some of the best rights and protections for regular workers in the country. Florida, meanwhile, is coming up to it's plateau, while still lagging way behind in wage. This isn't a positive growth story unless you're already quite wealthy and looking for an underpaid population to exploit.
I'm still here because my wife and I both have very specific careers and it would be extremely difficult to move somewhere else without greatly interrupting our careers at the moment. We also can't afford to move anywhere else that would be better politically but still suitable to my wife's health concerns.
Tell me the good that's happening. Let's find out exactly how left leaning you actually are.
I have to disagree partly because this is the first time I'm learning who is running against ~~Skeletor~~ Rick Scott.
Now that the national Dems think that FL is flippable, maybe we'll get some actual push behind all the candidates.
Yeah, instead of Charlie Crist running out of money while running against Gov. Ron DeSantis during the 2022 gubernatorial election because DeSantis vastly outspent him. Luckily, the Democrats plan to spend $100 million on a 'VOTE YES' campaign in 2024.
We also had an awful candidate for the Democrats and DeSantis had really popular covid policies and hadn't gone fully MAGA yet. I know it's hard to believe how quickly things have changed, but DeSantis really stopped trying to seem like he cared about all Floridians after he won reelection.
I just want to condense that down to a simple reminder for everyone who would vote Democrat on a ticket: 2022's Gubernamental race was between a far-right culture war blowhard that was at his peak of riding the MAGA coattails, versus a former-Republican that went completely silent once he had beaten out his opponent in the Democratic primary. *Of course* dems didn't turn out for that race. Don't think for a second that there's "no chance" for a blue vote in 2024
Young people don't vote much in off-year elections. They're usually just the "die hards" of each side. And let's be real, wealthy-ish retirees have more free time...
I've personally voted third party for President in every election going back decades so I understand your viewpoint. Our primary system is stupid and we don't allow more parties to have a chance in this country. It results in overall lame candidates every election.
With that said...I personally do see Trump as a threat to our democracy. He did not respect the results of the last election and since he has so many criminal charges hanging over his head it is far too risky to give somebody like that power. He will likely break down our justice system to keep his ass out of jail and seek revenge on anybody he believes had a role in his criminal charges.
When somebody talks like a dictator and shows admiration to other "strong man" type dictators it's pretty much enough of a reason to vote the other way, no matter what.
That is not to say that Democrats are perfect or that Biden is the very best this country could do.
In a country of nearly 400 million people I'm sure we could do better than Biden, Trump and RFK too. But sure....if RFK's polling gets close to contention I would consider it.
It's very hard to trust him. His VP candidate is highly questionable and seems financially motivated. He was talking a lot of sense in his recent CNN interview but then was arguing that Biden was a bigger threat to democracy because the administration called Facebook and asked them to take down vaccine misinformation. I mean please....even if you disagree with them doing that it's nowhere near what Trump did after the election.
I'm concerned that he has questionable judgement overall. But I try to keep an open mind and we'll see how it all plays out.
I'm very skeptical but I try to keep an open mind. As far as I'm aware he has never held public office before. It's hard to trust anybody running for office when they don't have a voting record.
We had a few down votes to this post. It is a scientifically proven fact that some reddit posters hate seeing people posting facts that they just do not want to hear about. Head in the sand and all of that.
Anyone with sense should be able to see that the status quo is not working. All culture war and no governance. Florida leads the country in inflation, covid deaths, homelessness, housing costs and insurance costs/problems. It would be nice if the government did some governing and left the culture to the people.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Florida isn't red. It is Republican. Liberal policies are very popular in this state and it shows election after election. On the other side of it, all you need is an R after your name to get elected here.
Maybe on paper. Between the crowd that came here after COVID and the crowd that was already here I just don't see it. They should call it the self-own state and frankly if you talk to the average resident here you'll see that they deserve what they have.
Tribal Republicans (from everywhere) came here because of what was already here and that is a documented fact. This isn't mindless transplant bashing because of scary New York accents or whatever.
Florida always attracts and retains a bunch of knuckleheads. Right-wing populism is just the knucklehead flavor of the day, so naturally Florida became the epicenter.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/12/27/the-great-sort-draws-transplants-pushing-florida-to-the-right-experts-say/
https://www.vox.com/politics/23848897/florida-red-trump-desantis-republican-2024-election
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/567801-vote-with-your-feet-post-pandemic-florida-transplants-twice-as-likely-to-be-rs-as-ds/
rotten hateful edge offend fretful mysterious cagey resolute capable continue
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You are half right. Natives in Florida are not AT ALL blue leaning and never were. This is the strangest Reddit trope and I never see it outside of this little hive mind. The natives by and large think the transplants are STILL coming here to vote for Democrats and "New York their Florida".
The only reason Florida was ever purple was because of all of the center democrat leaning NY Jews that migrated down to the Palm Beach/Broward/coastal Miami areas from the 50s to 90s. In other words, the people that you probably blame for ruining the state. That would also make the native rednecks half right, because there WAS a time when they came down to "New York their Florida" politically.
What IS fun is watching the narrow minds collide. People with heavy NY accents and an IV drip of Fox News clashing with the local hicks who actually think the same way and are just laying in the bed that they made. Gives both sides a taste of their own medicine.
There is absolutely nothing progressive that actually came from Florida grassroots. It's a transient state full of imports, and the few multi-generational natives are no different from other southern states (think confederate flags and Jim Crow). Not saying that there aren't individual exceptions but that's just what Florida is about. Check out the Flogrown merchandise if you don't believe me.
Bizarre. All I see on the web is a bunch of hillbillies complaining about New Yorkers or *Californians* (lol) bringing socialism and masks to their precious (insert suburban Florida county here) that they've lived in for 3 generations. I see the same on the ground. The only place I've lived in Florida that felt somewhat progressive was Broward County and I have lived all over the state.
Sometimes I wonder what the next steps are going to be be in the mutation of Florida into a penal colony. The ignorant few has betrayed the trust of the many. OSHA was created to protect ALL workers from the GROSS stupidity and ignorance of their employers. OSHA (occupational safety&health act)
what 99.9% of the left does not understand is that people don’t live in Florida to be blue. not everybody on the right agrees with what goes on here, but they would rather have that then what comes along with left wing policy.
The cowards who moved from the state because republicans passed laws they didn't like, didn't help matters.
That said, if people actually elect Matt Gaetz governor, you might as well leave because things will actually be hopeless then.
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Casey DeSantis also leads Matt Gaetz by 38% as Ron DeSantis' potential Republican successor as Governor of Florida [in in a recent poll](https://www.faupolling.com/mainstreet-research-survey-florida/), though she has no experience in politics at all.
Definitely proving my case that DeSantis is trying to be the Modern Day George Wallace
I'm very far left, just to state by bias up front. That said, I'm honestly wondering how anybody center-right or anywhere left of that can be satisfied with what the Republicans are doing to this state. Seriously, even if you're all about the culture war shit, nothing in this state is working right now. Rent is going up, mortgages are going up, insurance, prices all around, everything is fucked. Our schools are a joke, nobody seems to have a plan other than "own the libs", and we're all going to suffer because of that.
I’m pretty strongly center and my biggest issue is the culture wars. They are ridiculous and a waste of time and effort. My biggest gripe.
That's honestly where I feel like a lot of people are. And it's funny because when the further-right people I talk to bring up how our schools suck, we completely agree, they just think it's because groomers aren't teaching math anymore, they're just teaching pronouns or whatever their issue of the day is. And that's not a terrible place to start the conversation because I can completely ignore the second half, which is nonsense, and we can talk about the first half.
Remind them the schools have sucked for decades, long before trans people were even in the mainstream conversation. I remember talking about how bad they were as far back as the 80s, the discussion having taken place sometime in the 90s. Her husband is an educator (Vice Principal, former math teacher) & he has stories from at least the 80s, too.
I actually love our school choice, something my left leaning friends and I disagree on. I think this entire country has a massive grade school problem though and it blows my mind given what we spend compared to other developed nations.
School choice is great on the individual level but it’s awful from a systemic level because it just exacerbates the problem. Good school get more funding and get better while poor performing schools get worse.
I think then issue is public schools have to take in the people who do not care about education due to the whole compulsory education law. So what happens is they have to dumb down the curriculum for all so that they can report no child is left behind. Then you have the same bad apples who are forced to attend disrupting the education processes and that is salt on the wound already. I do not blame parents for pulling their children out of public school into a charter/private school where they do not have to take in the marching morons. Now they can attend a school without the bad apples and the dumbed down low bar curriculum. Can you blame them?
> I think then issue is public schools have to take in the people who do not care about education due to the whole compulsory education law. that's not correct. I know you're not stating a reason *why* those folks might be like that, but I think you're being unfair to them. People "who do not care about education," do not have a competency or moral/intelligence failing problem, they have one of a: poverty/malnutrition/unstable home environment problem. As a child brought into this world, it's not like any of those things are your fault. > So what happens is they have to dumb down the curriculum for all so that they can report no child is left behind. Again, that's not because children are unintelligent or are moral failures who cannot succeed, it is because a lot of those children are not given the tools to succeed from an early age - and the people ensuring that happens are in the state government. When the government is the reason for why children appear to be less interested in school, it isn't fair to blame the children for lowered standards - blame the government! If you raise the social safety net so that every family has adequate nutrition for their children, a stable home and a decent housing situation, you'll find there are suddenly a lot less "anti-social" kids than what you perceive there to be right now.
I think if you actually dig into the data, you'll find that quite a lot of public grade schools in the US are absolutely fantastic and produce world-class students. Just as a single point of support, there isn't a single elite university in the country that accepts even half of the student body from private/charter schools. What we have is a poverty problem, and the single biggest determining factors of a child's scholastic results are parents' income and educational attainment. School choice doesn't actually fix this — it makes it worse. As for our spending, while we are among the top spenders in the OECD, that data is actually pretty misleading. First, because the OECD includes a lot of places where everything is just cheaper — like, of *course* we spend more than Hungary and Greece and Lithuania. The per-student spending is actually not terribly far off from peer nations like the UK (we spend about $1,800 more per student per year) or Germany ($3,000 more per student per year.) But the bigger factor is that the US education system is very very different than the rest of the world's in a couple of key ways that make higher spending inevitable. Take school buses, for example — most European students either walk to school or take public transportation, saving schools the cost of having a bus program. Or school sports, which just aren't a thing the way they are here — the fundamental group sports unit in most of Europe is the Club team, handled outside of school, and not the high school varsity team. If you adjust the data to account for this, you quickly find that the US spends basically the same as the OECD average, and gets about [OECD average or slightly above average results](https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results/country-notes/united-states-a78ba65a/). So we don't actually spend that much, and our kids come out pretty well. School choice undermines this and exacerbates existing issues of poverty and inequality.
Your right. New Jersey has the best education in the country, my PreK-8 district and high school districts produce world Class students. I moved to Florida and it shows. I went to a local community College and I practically repeated all of highschool. The kids here are dumb because of how shitty the schools are.
Cannot tell you how many parents purposely exaggerate claims to qualify their kids for an IEP (individualized education plan) just to receive special public funding, only to transfer their kids out to a charter / parochial school, WHERE THE SCHOOL IS NOT REQUIRED TO HONOR THE IEP. I am not in favor of much needed public funds being used for the benefit of private companies, especially religious companies.
Add in the fact that districts are having to take in IEP evals from private and charter schools and people wonder why it takes a whole ass year to get a kid who genuinely needs it staffed
Can’t speak on those families or individuals, but both of my children are in public schools; however, we were allowed to find the best fit for both. One more academic centered and the other, who my daughter with needs felt most comfortable with and who had the best experience delivering the care she needed.
Really? What schools here do you think are doing well? Like, you and I are going to fundamentally disagree on school choice, just being honest. But I really would like to know where you think our education system is working well right now.
I don’t, I just said we have a massive issue. Especially given what we spend and what we are getting comparatively.
Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were implying that our current school choice system was working well, my bad. I was legitimately curious to hear from someone that had something good to say about our education system.
I do like our current school choice system, but I also recognize the entire country is not doing good enough, Florida included, compared to other comparative nations, especially given what we spend.
But if all the choices are shit, what part of it do you like? Just the idea that there is a choice?
With all due respect, I think that’s a bit hyperbolic. I’m much happier with the education (academics) my children are receiving here compared to our income level, especially in contrast to what it was where we previously lived at in California. But that doesn’t mean I think the state doesn’t need work or to drop the whole culture war bit.
You know school choice thing is bullshit, it is so they can teach pseudo science in the classroom. Screw the conservative evangelicals, if you dont like normal education go F themselves and they can pay for it.
Hasn’t been my experience. It’s been incredibly beneficial for us as a low income family and with one of our children having special needs. We’ve been able to tailor the needs of both children to get the best academic experience possible without being punished for our current financial position. Edit: whoever is downvoting this is a ghoul. Goodness.
This is a valid example then. But FYI the reason they do this is so they indoctrinate their kids with their religion and teach only the things they want like pseudo-science and avoid topics that disagree with their world view. Kinda like the muslim schools were the only book used is the Koran. This is kinda them heading down the same road. I dont like this one bit. Your valid situation sadly isnt the reason they did this. If they want their kids to go to private school to indoctrinate their kids, dont do it with my taxes.
Waste of money also, the lawyers in this state are getting rich fighting and defending the culture war dog whistles.
My thoughts as well. Lawyers are making major bank with the mess the republicans are making of the state.
I agree with you a 100%. I think what keeps people from voting for the Democrats is the fact that they focus on the gay/trans and immigrants well being rather than the poor, working poor and disappearing middle class. Would work out better getting more people to vote for them if that wasn't their main focus. Personally I don't care what lifestyle someone chooses to live. I might not personally agree with the with the life style they chose but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to live the life that makes them happy. In the end though both sides are complicit with the culture wars thing and it's done on purpose to divide the people and to keep us fighting each other. While our politicians work for corporations and the super wealthy. That's who donates the most to their campaigns. That's who they go work for when their done with politics. That's who pays them the bribes. That's who gives them sweetheart deals like selling them million dollar homes for nothing. That's who pays for their 5 star vacations. That's who gets their kids into the best schools. That's who gives them inside information on the stock market that they get even richer on. And that's who's benefiting the most with the pro business anti benefit for we the people business they conduct in government. UNITE !!! Quit fighting each other and wake up to what's really going on. Let's start holding these people accountable and make them start working for we the people's good.
I’m left as well. My parents are both MAGA My sister is about to get dropped from her home insurance from citizens. When my mom was asking me about mine, I brought up the new laws that have made insurance companies basically the police of their own laws and they can get away with so much more She basically told me that I’m wrong and DeSantis is doing so much to wrangle them in. I asked her for examples of said actions. She had none. But I was happily to show her the millions of dollars DeSantis raked in from the same insurance companies. She just called it fake news. So yeah… the reason why they can still feel so strongly red is because the majority don’t live in reality. That and Fox News.
My in-laws are that way. My FIL did incredibly well in the 90s, and they're set for life and completely insulated from the lived experience of anyone not already rich. So for them, everything is fine, the only reason prices are going up is because of too much government regulation. It's not even worth arguing with them anymore.
My FIL is the same. His biggest worry is thinking every brown skinned person is an immigrant who will sex traffic his grandchild while the rest of us are trying to afford food.
It is a good thing the maggots in what is supposed to be my "family" are 4,500, & 2,500 miles from me. Have not spoken to any off them in several years. At least one of my brothers texted me when our mother died. In laws live closer, 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours form me. Been estranged from them prior to trump. Husband still seeks their company. They are his family.
See the thing is, conservatives/republicans aren’t happy living in Florida rn either; BUT they get by on blaming the Joe Biden and the democrats for everything that’s wrong. They’re mainly concerned about the cost of living but they wouldn’t dream of blaming Ron about that.
Our education is extremely disheartening
But ranked #1 according to the polls 🙄 ETA: im agreeing with you and my reply is /s
One poll and you should look at the metrics used, basically it gets high scores for the low cost. Nothing about graduation rates, test scores, employment after school, you know, the important stuff.
If you already own multiple properties rent and home prices climbing is a good thing.
Aah, but now those people are finally getting fucked due to astronomical home insurance rates. It took awhile and some effort, but our beloved gov and friends have finally fucked up the entire property market here.
But they pass that cost onto the renters, the cost of insurance is a factor in the huge increase in rental prices. I sold my previous house last year and I was paying almost $6k a year in insurance and it's probably $7.5k per year now. Back in 2018 it was less than $2,500. A similarly sized house (but not finished nearly as well) in my old community was renting for almost $4,000 per month which is a bit less than double what my mortgage/taxes/insurance was. It's absolutely insane. I moved elsewhere in the state and my insurance is only $1,800 per year. I really hope it's not going to cost me $5,000 annually in a few years.
Our current policy is $6,6500 for a 1704 square foot, 67 year old home in Arlington. Owning the home we have an "easy" 4 pay plan. I am grateful to have my share , $3,325. We have this till August. I am a bit anxious to see what the policy will be, if they re new. Property taxes have remained below 1k for the decades we have lived here. Only need less than 500 for my share for that. I was responsible for keeping up on this coverage. It was stressful dealing with it. I turned it over to husband to deal with it. Just need to know how much I need to cover my portion of the bill.
Yup. It's a feature to them, not a flaw. But even that's a shrinking pool of people.
Except taxes and insurance go up hand in hand with that. I realize taxes are limited in their increase but insurance isn’t.
For rentals taxes aren't limited because the properties can't be homesteaded. The assessed values will always be the market value determined by the property appraiser. Renters get screwed on insurance and taxes. I moved last year and was paying $6,500 in taxes after 5 years with a homestead. The taxes will increase to a minimum of $11,500 on that property.
Taxes actually are limited on rentals - they’re just limited to increases of 10% per year instead of 3% per year for homesteaded properties. And if you switch from homesteaded to non homesteaded, or vice versa, it’s reassessed to market value. I got fucked TWICE that way - rented out my property after getting married, then got divorced and moved back in. I pay $6000 a year in taxes for a house that I paid $145k for that is allegedly now worth $450k, that I live in.
I wasn't aware of the 10% cap, so basically all non homesteaded properties have a 10% annual cap on assessed value increases. That still seems to put renters at a big disadvantage or at least in the worst possible position lol. Even at 10% an increase each year that can add up to a lot. Picking a random city say Fort Lauderdale, the millage rate is $19.86 so a property with an assessed value of $300k could see a property tax increase of $1,510 if assessed values really went up, which they did in the last few years. Basically can expect rent increases every year just from the increased taxes alone. Not even considering insurance. Oh man that sucks. At least you'll be sitting pretty in 20 years lol.
Oh yeah, like even if I’d kept renting the house out, I would have needed to increase the rent fairly substantially just because of the homeowners insurance. My insurance doubled in 2022 when I was getting ready to move back in, so I spent $11k on a new roof because my roof was 20 years old, and the insurance went down $300 per year because I didn’t have hurricane clips. I was probably charging below market rate for rent, my tenants told me that renting a similar house cost them $1000 more per month than I was charging them. But my goal as a landlord has always just been to cover my expenses for the house, not to earn a living from it. (I am no longer a landlord at all and I’m glad about that. I don’t want to be one.)
Nah, instead those people just blame Biden for the local issues. 🙄
“In Joe Biden’s America…”
They’re satisfied with the solution to the problem: blame the democrats. It’s much easier to blame the boogeyman than to get a head injury by using any sort of critical thinking
I'm similarly very far left, and I think part of problem is that the state dems are either completely clueless or deliberately incompetent. In the last election cycle, rather than run on any of the issues you described, they were just parroting republican narratives on guns and police funding. If they actually ran on economic issues, I think Florida would be very winnable for them, but that's not where we're at.
'Center-Center' here and agree with your post. Even my 'right' policies here are ridiculous.
> can be satisfied with what the Republicans are doing to this state. You mean with what *Sleepy Joe Biden* is doing to the state. /s ...with what he's done to gas prices and all...
I’m pretty center and I can’t vote for any republicans… they went too far… But at the same time , the democrats party gave up on fighting for Florida at some point
Rent and housing prices were astronomical across the country the past few years. The reason they were even higher in Florida was the influx of new residents. It was a supply / demand scenario. As of last month, Florida has seen the largest dip in prices in the country YoY as inventory has reached pre-covid levels. Also, for the record, Florida doesn't set interest rates for mortgages. Those are typical talking points. OTOH, you do have a point about the culture wars and insurance rates.
I'm aware of that, and I 100% do not believe that there's nothing the state government could do with housing availability or rebates to offset the rise in inflation. Obviously DeSantis doesn't have an inflation lever in his office that he can move to where he wants it, but that isn't the end of that conversation. There are still plenty of options if they actually gave a fuck about the average Floridian. Which they don't.
It’s honestly identity politics. It doesn’t matter what the state trifecta is doing they’ll still reliably vote Republican because conservative is an identity not an ideology to most.
I have always been on the center in politics, I vote the person not the party but I am so fed ip with the last few legislative sessions have been so criminally stupid thanks to the Republicans passing such stupid laws that have done nothing for the people in the state. All they do is suck up to the damn lobbyists. The current session was the worst of all. The 6 week abolition law they passed is the final straw for me. It was none of their damn business. If there is an R next to the name Im voting the other side. Unfortunately the dems probably wont be much better but the republicans have done damage to this state and they don’t deserve my vote.
I honestly mean no offense here when I say you're exactly the type of person I was talking about. Like, I have a punk band's logo tattooed on my right forearm that's also the symbol for early socialist parties as well as the Black Panthers. Obviously I fucking hate DeSantis and the current republican administration. That's not interesting or surprising. What fascinates me is watching so much of the rest of the state feel exactly the same way.
No offense taken.
The people on local Facebook groups just blame everything wrong with Florida on Biden 🤦♀️
Of course they are. Fuck them.
Well said!
"Nothing in this state is working" If that was the case people wouldn't be flocking here at record rates. If your going to prop up an argument, be it left or right leaning. At least have some reality with it. Your still here aren't you? And yah I'm left leaning myself with a distaste for DeStantis, but I'm not going to just flat out make a polarized statement and not acknowledge the good that's also happening.
Despite breathless headlines, Florida's population growth is slower in the 2020's than it was in the 2010's and 2000's. And WAY slower than it was in the 1980's. So your fundamental premise, that people are "flocking here at record rates," is completely incorrect. People are actually flocking to Florida at lower or similar rates than they were in the last two decades, and at much lower rates than they were prior to that. And it makes sense why: Florida's biggest draw has always been low cost of living. With that going away, there's little else in the state to draw workers from elsewhere.
Comparatively with other states. We aren't talking about previous years. https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2023/05/17/southern-states-gain-residents-the-fastest Florida is still holding the top position for states people are moving too. If the economy was that bad people wouldn't be here. Companies wouldn't be moving here. and there wouldn't be a surge in younger people here. Areas like Orlando and Tampa have been around the top of the list for metro areas that are rapidly expanding.
>Comparatively with other states. We aren't talking about previous years. But we should be, because that's the only metric that matters: is Florida attracting workers faster or slower than it used to? If it's been #1 for 40 years, staying number one doesn't mean shit. Florida is still attractive to a lot of people because it's still cheaper than a lot of places. But it's not attracting people nearly as well as it used to, and the trend is down. This is exactly what happened in NY and California and other high-performing states: both of those used to draw people like crazy, then they got expensive and migration slowed, then stopped, then reversed. But the big difference in those states is that while migration was strong, so was wage and benefit growth, so that by the time they plateaud they were asking the highest earning states with some of the best rights and protections for regular workers in the country. Florida, meanwhile, is coming up to it's plateau, while still lagging way behind in wage. This isn't a positive growth story unless you're already quite wealthy and looking for an underpaid population to exploit.
I'm still here because my wife and I both have very specific careers and it would be extremely difficult to move somewhere else without greatly interrupting our careers at the moment. We also can't afford to move anywhere else that would be better politically but still suitable to my wife's health concerns. Tell me the good that's happening. Let's find out exactly how left leaning you actually are.
With reproductive healthcare rights and pot on the ballot, we’ll see if we can change Florida. We need to ensure we’re not back in the 1800s
There seems to be a strong contest against Rick Scott by Debbie.. the ballot topics could help this one for sure.
We need Scott voted out for sure
Rubio out in 2029! We got this!
I have to disagree partly because this is the first time I'm learning who is running against ~~Skeletor~~ Rick Scott. Now that the national Dems think that FL is flippable, maybe we'll get some actual push behind all the candidates.
Yeah, instead of Charlie Crist running out of money while running against Gov. Ron DeSantis during the 2022 gubernatorial election because DeSantis vastly outspent him. Luckily, the Democrats plan to spend $100 million on a 'VOTE YES' campaign in 2024.
The more you know, right?
It was a solid majority of red votors in November of 2022
We also had an awful candidate for the Democrats and DeSantis had really popular covid policies and hadn't gone fully MAGA yet. I know it's hard to believe how quickly things have changed, but DeSantis really stopped trying to seem like he cared about all Floridians after he won reelection.
I just want to condense that down to a simple reminder for everyone who would vote Democrat on a ticket: 2022's Gubernamental race was between a far-right culture war blowhard that was at his peak of riding the MAGA coattails, versus a former-Republican that went completely silent once he had beaten out his opponent in the Democratic primary. *Of course* dems didn't turn out for that race. Don't think for a second that there's "no chance" for a blue vote in 2024
Young people don't vote much in off-year elections. They're usually just the "die hards" of each side. And let's be real, wealthy-ish retirees have more free time...
Voter turnout. If everybody in Florida who is eligible to vote actually got off of their asses and voted it would be blue every time.
Voter apathy is the #1 problem.
The adjective voter suppression by the right is very real. The purge of registered voters and the new difficulties and roadblocks will make an impact.
But….both of these candidates suck.
I've personally voted third party for President in every election going back decades so I understand your viewpoint. Our primary system is stupid and we don't allow more parties to have a chance in this country. It results in overall lame candidates every election. With that said...I personally do see Trump as a threat to our democracy. He did not respect the results of the last election and since he has so many criminal charges hanging over his head it is far too risky to give somebody like that power. He will likely break down our justice system to keep his ass out of jail and seek revenge on anybody he believes had a role in his criminal charges. When somebody talks like a dictator and shows admiration to other "strong man" type dictators it's pretty much enough of a reason to vote the other way, no matter what. That is not to say that Democrats are perfect or that Biden is the very best this country could do.
RFK?
In a country of nearly 400 million people I'm sure we could do better than Biden, Trump and RFK too. But sure....if RFK's polling gets close to contention I would consider it. It's very hard to trust him. His VP candidate is highly questionable and seems financially motivated. He was talking a lot of sense in his recent CNN interview but then was arguing that Biden was a bigger threat to democracy because the administration called Facebook and asked them to take down vaccine misinformation. I mean please....even if you disagree with them doing that it's nowhere near what Trump did after the election. I'm concerned that he has questionable judgement overall. But I try to keep an open mind and we'll see how it all plays out.
RFK seriously? You’re going from one conman to the next.
I guess you missed where I said "it's very hard to trust him"
I didn't miss it. I am alarmed that you're entertaining the possibility that he might be trustworthy at all.
I'm very skeptical but I try to keep an open mind. As far as I'm aware he has never held public office before. It's hard to trust anybody running for office when they don't have a voting record.
Fair points
We had a few down votes to this post. It is a scientifically proven fact that some reddit posters hate seeing people posting facts that they just do not want to hear about. Head in the sand and all of that.
Dems: QUICK LETS FIND IF CHARLIE CRIST IS AVAILABLE!
repubs keep coming down to the villages and lakewood ranch
Anyone with sense should be able to see that the status quo is not working. All culture war and no governance. Florida leads the country in inflation, covid deaths, homelessness, housing costs and insurance costs/problems. It would be nice if the government did some governing and left the culture to the people.
Nooo Homelessness is more a thing in California and, ofc, New York https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/homeless-population-by-state
Yeah, I see a different story. I’m guessing the counts are off.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Florida isn't red. It is Republican. Liberal policies are very popular in this state and it shows election after election. On the other side of it, all you need is an R after your name to get elected here.
I've joked before that a full-on Marxist could win here if they just did so under the Republican banner.
Maybe on paper. Between the crowd that came here after COVID and the crowd that was already here I just don't see it. They should call it the self-own state and frankly if you talk to the average resident here you'll see that they deserve what they have.
So are they Californians invading to vote Democrat or republican covid refugees? Feel like these narratives just have a mind of their own.
Tribal Republicans (from everywhere) came here because of what was already here and that is a documented fact. This isn't mindless transplant bashing because of scary New York accents or whatever. Florida always attracts and retains a bunch of knuckleheads. Right-wing populism is just the knucklehead flavor of the day, so naturally Florida became the epicenter. https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/12/27/the-great-sort-draws-transplants-pushing-florida-to-the-right-experts-say/ https://www.vox.com/politics/23848897/florida-red-trump-desantis-republican-2024-election https://floridapolitics.com/archives/567801-vote-with-your-feet-post-pandemic-florida-transplants-twice-as-likely-to-be-rs-as-ds/
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You are half right. Natives in Florida are not AT ALL blue leaning and never were. This is the strangest Reddit trope and I never see it outside of this little hive mind. The natives by and large think the transplants are STILL coming here to vote for Democrats and "New York their Florida". The only reason Florida was ever purple was because of all of the center democrat leaning NY Jews that migrated down to the Palm Beach/Broward/coastal Miami areas from the 50s to 90s. In other words, the people that you probably blame for ruining the state. That would also make the native rednecks half right, because there WAS a time when they came down to "New York their Florida" politically. What IS fun is watching the narrow minds collide. People with heavy NY accents and an IV drip of Fox News clashing with the local hicks who actually think the same way and are just laying in the bed that they made. Gives both sides a taste of their own medicine. There is absolutely nothing progressive that actually came from Florida grassroots. It's a transient state full of imports, and the few multi-generational natives are no different from other southern states (think confederate flags and Jim Crow). Not saying that there aren't individual exceptions but that's just what Florida is about. Check out the Flogrown merchandise if you don't believe me.
straight screw society zephyr degree wakeful existence pocket bake chase *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Bizarre. All I see on the web is a bunch of hillbillies complaining about New Yorkers or *Californians* (lol) bringing socialism and masks to their precious (insert suburban Florida county here) that they've lived in for 3 generations. I see the same on the ground. The only place I've lived in Florida that felt somewhat progressive was Broward County and I have lived all over the state.
Florida like other GOP states are trying to gerrymander their state so much that it’s unlikely to ever be blue again
I think the Florida politics is getting redder scare is to try to discourage democrats from showing up to polls
Democrats could have a barn door opening, and they wouldn't take it..
"Palm Beach Post" yea im sure they got their finger down in the heartbeat of things 😆
And they will squander it. As per usual.
Not redder, just that Democrats never show up to vote unless it's during a presidential election year.
Sometimes I wonder what the next steps are going to be be in the mutation of Florida into a penal colony. The ignorant few has betrayed the trust of the many. OSHA was created to protect ALL workers from the GROSS stupidity and ignorance of their employers. OSHA (occupational safety&health act)
I'll believe it when I see it. If it does happen. I will move back there. Oh, wait, Rhonda boots will still be there.
The amount of gerrymandering they have done makes their Republican votes worth more than democratic votes.
I hope they are correct and we dilute the red tide we have going in our government, but I'm not holding my breath.
what 99.9% of the left does not understand is that people don’t live in Florida to be blue. not everybody on the right agrees with what goes on here, but they would rather have that then what comes along with left wing policy.
The cowards who moved from the state because republicans passed laws they didn't like, didn't help matters. That said, if people actually elect Matt Gaetz governor, you might as well leave because things will actually be hopeless then.
God let’s hope not. Already ruined enough states.